Hot Tubs, Culver’s, and the Joy of Belonging

What if inclusion is only the starting line—and belonging is the finish we’re called to run toward together? We sit down with a special guest, Emily Enockson, to explore how a life shaped by foster care, medical fragility, and a steadfast sister named Josie became a vocation at Zachariah’s Acres, a 175-acre sanctuary where people with disabilities don’t just attend events—they help design the experience. Through stories that are equal parts tender and funny, we unpack the daily practices that turn good intentions into genuine community.

Emily walks us through the quiet tug of calling—how it rarely arrives like a spotlight and more like a series of faithful steps. She shows how inclusion often keeps a hidden power gap in place, while belonging invites mutuality: not “we serve them,” but “we do life together.” From a volunteer who learns to embrace imperfection in the kitchen to students who grow and package produce for the farm store, we see dignity thrive when people are seen, named, and invited to shape the space. We talk eye contact, assumptions, processing time, and why speaking directly to the person (not only the parent) is a baseline act of respect toward those with special needs.

You’ll leave with four practices to try this week: be present, connect, keep showing up, and be courageous. Whether you’re a pastor, parent, volunteer, or someone unsure where to start, this conversation offers a pathway from awkwardness to authentic relationship. Along the way, we ground the journey in a simple theology of belonging: people are not projects; they are co-creators of community who reveal something of the Creator to us.

Ready to move beyond comfort and into connection? Listen now, share it with a friend, and tell us one step you’ll take this week. If the episode resonates, subscribe, leave a review, and help more people discover a vision of church where everyone belongs.

Transcript

Why Inclusion Isn’t Enough

Josiah 0:02

Well, welcome to Praxis, a podcast where we explore how to practice and embody the way of Jesus in our everyday lives. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen. Right now we're in a short series on disability in the church, and I just want to encourage you to not tune out. Did you know that roughly 17 to 20% of the population lives with a disability? That's far more people than many of us realize. Statistically, chances are high that either you or someone close to you is part of that number. Yet far too often, people with disabilities find themselves pushed to the margins. In a culture that tends to value people for what they can do or how much they can achieve, those with disabilities are frequently overlooked and perceived as having little to contribute. And while our society has made real progress towards greater inclusion, which we want to celebrate, we're convinced that inclusion alone is not enough, especially in the church. So in this series, we're exploring how to move beyond mere inclusion towards becoming communities of genuine belonging. And today we're going to continue this series by having a conversation with a friend of ours, Emily Enix. So let's do it.

Mac 1:24

Well, welcome everyone. My name is Mac. I'm Josiah. And we are sitting here with my friend, uh Emily Enixon. Um, we often start with some banter. Okay. And uh I think this would be a good way to introduce you to our listeners. It might feel a little odd, but part of you is living in my home.

Emily 1:47

That is true. Yes. Yes.

Mac 1:49

You know you caught it right away. Yeah, I did. My wife Josie, this was several years ago now. Um, Emily is like a sourdough expert. And she put on a clinic for like, I don't know, maybe 10 women to teach them how to do all things sourdough. And my wife Josie went to it.

Emily 2:08

And how long ago was this? Oh, gosh, maybe like three years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Mac 2:13

A handful of years ago. Uh-huh. And she walked away with some sourdough starter. And I thought for sure she'd kill it. Like within a few weeks, she would like negotiate.

Emily 2:23

She was very dedicated to keep that alive.

Mac 2:26

And she has only gotten more dedicated. So this sourdough starter, she uses it multiple times a week. You have influenced my daily life, Emily.

Emily 2:34

That is my goal to be the sourdough ambassador.

Mac 2:38

Yes.

Emily 2:38

To Lake Country.

Meet Emily: Sourdough And Story

Mac 2:39

My question is, and I imagine you probably go through seasons. I know Josie does, but like, what is your favorite thing to make right now or to consume? And then I want to push it over to you, Josiah. Like, what sourdough item do you enjoy?

Josiah 2:55

I don't make any sourdough.

Emily 2:56

Gosh. So sourdough. Okay. So our family does this thing every year called Lefsa Fest. And this past weekend was our Lefsa Fest competition. And we just added, there's usually crock pot wars, Instant Pot Wars, and we just added a sourdough competition. Oh fun. And so I submitted my sourdough focaccia, which that is something that I make a lot. It was so good. Yeah. It was delicious.

Mac 3:23

Can you make sourdough lefsah? Because that's potatoes. No, probably not. Right? Okay.

Emily 3:28

I'll have to look into that. But I don't think so. No, it's like potatoes and flour and whatever. But yeah, so focaccia has been a standby for me. And then sourdough bagels. That's actually fed my starter before I came here with the intention to make sourdough bagels when it's freezing cold tomorrow.

Josiah 3:46

That's amazing.

Emily 3:47

Uh-huh. Yeah.

Josiah 3:48

Wow. That that that does sound good. My my wife really wants me to get into sourdough. She uh this is what she does. So when she has an interest, she wants you to do it. She puts it on you. She wants me to do it. Uh-huh. So she's very career-oriented and very busy. So when she's like, Oh, I wish I had time for that, she's like, hey, maybe you could like get into sourdough. It's like, well, I don't have the interest. You clearly do. Um, she does the same thing with our our lawn. She she wishes it was nicer. And she's like, hey, can you become one of those like lawn dads?

Emily 4:22

Lawn dads.

Josiah 4:24

She cares about it more than I do.

Emily 4:25

With the like riding lawn mower and trimming it and the new balance and the white high socks.

Josiah 4:31

She wants to dictate your hobbies, dude. She does. Well, she wants to, she wants hobbies that you know will enrich her life, but she doesn't want to take it. She doesn't want to take the time to do them. So she wants me to do it.

Mac 4:43

Dude, sourdough enriches everyone's life. So and I could see you doing it.

Emily 4:48

Yeah. It's so fun. And if you ever need starter, I'll hook you up.

Mac 4:52

Yeah.

Emily 4:52

Yeah. It's easy. And I think it's the thing I always teach people is incorporate it into your daily life. So whatever you're already doing, feed your starter when you feed your kids, you know?

Mac 5:05

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it is awesome. Yeah, I like eating it.

Emily 5:10

What is Josie making?

Mac 5:12

Yeah. So one of the things that I enjoy the most that she makes, we first of all, we love Indian food.

Emily 5:18

Oh, naan.

Mac 5:19

Yes. So the her sourdough naan is pretty awesome. And then I would say over the last eight or nine months, we've been doing a lot of homemade pizza with sourdough crust, and it's a game changer. Yeah. It's so good. Um, so yeah, there's several items that she does that.

Emily 5:38

And it's better for you.

Mac 5:39

Yeah, totally.

Emily 5:41

Better for your gut. And I don't know. I love the sourdough.

Growing Up With Disability At Home

Mac 5:44

Yeah. Well, let me give you a more formal introduction to our listeners, Emily. You're not only a dear friend, but you're part of our community. Um, you grew up in the area not too far from here and went to Madison, DW Madison. We have a lot of people, uh younger kids who are now at Madison who tune in, so that's fun. Um, where you studied human development and family studies. Um after a few different uh jobs, you ended up landing, and we're gonna talk about this more today, at Zachariah's Acres, which is an incredible place, only a few miles from here. And you're the director of community impact, and you've been there for several years now, since like 2012.

Emily 6:27

Yeah, like 14, 14 years.

Mac 6:29

Yes, that's awesome. And um, and so I can't wait for people to hear more about that. And so you're not only a sourdough expert, but you're an incredible human, and I'm glad that you're here. Um, can you share? Let's just start with can you share a little bit of your story?

Emily 6:47

Yeah, absolutely.

Mac 6:48

Um I know you grew up with an adopted sister with a disability. We're talking about disability, we're in the series on disability, and the through line really is um I don't think inclusion is enough. I think we need to create genuine spaces of belonging. So I would love to kind of just hang on to that thread or that through line as we continue to talk. But I know that this is a topic. Uh, disability is a topic that you grew up with.

Emily 7:14

Yeah.

Mac 7:15

Like inside your home.

Emily 7:17

Yep. Yeah, absolutely. So I would say disability and individuals with special needs have been a th through line throughout my childhood. Um, growing up, my parents weren't supposed to have kiddos, and so they started doing f foster care for medically fragile kids. Um, then they had me, and then they had my brother Jonathan, who was born with uh congenital heart um disease. And I like grew up in the hospital, grew up around medically fragile kiddos, grew up um in the ICU, grew up um just in that environment. And so it's always been a part of my story. Um, Jonathan passed away when he was four and I was um six. And a couple years after that, um, we started doing foster care again, adopted my brother Caleb. Um he um had a collapsed lung, had some um issues as well, but now is thriving and healthy. Um and then fast forward and we did foster care for oh gosh, I don't know how many kiddos, but growing up that was always a part. We had Brett, who um had a trach and multiple needs. We had um several other kids a part of our home and nurses in and out. Um, so it was always a part of our daily life. Um, and then we adopted Josie. Um, Josie was in foster care with us um when she was four. And I remember the day when as a family, it was really important. My parents, every time we had a foster care placement, they came to us, my brother and I, and said, Hey, we're gonna go um meet this kiddo, because we this is a family decision. This is something that we are all doing together. It's not just them, it's all of us. So we went to Central Center to go meet Josie. And I remember we met her in a sensory room, which was this like dark room with uh bright lights, and she was nowhere to be seen. And so her, I think it was her caseworker or nurse or somebody there. Um and they brought Josie in and she couldn't even be um in the same room room as us because she was so isolated, neglected. She has CP, autism, um, epilepsy, a variety of different needs. But she had been so abused and neglected that she couldn't even be in the same room as humans. Um and I I also remember just this like feeling of if we don't help her, if we're we don't love her, who will? Um and so we as a family decided that we would take Josie in and we ended up doing foster care for some of her siblings as well.

Mac 9:58

Wow.

Emily 9:59

Yeah.

Mac 10:00

Was that the sentiment of everybody in the room? Like if someone doesn't embrace Josie, then who will?

Calling, Resistance, And Surrender

Emily 10:08

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And my brother's younger and he has his own story. And of course, with siblings, you always have days where you're like, okay, I don't want to be around you. Um, and that happens with siblings with special needs as well. Um, but yeah, there was that consensus of let's support and love this little one. Um and then we ended up adopting her. She was nonverbal, couldn't walk, couldn't speak. And I would say like her story is such a testimony of what love and providing a home where you do belong can change a life. Um really to see that. She is now, gosh, her birthday is on Sunday, and she is turning 33, I believe that's correct. Yeah. So 33. Um, and she lives in a group home. She has like this girl gang that she hangs out with. And I say she has a more active social life than me. She is always like going to the zoo, going out for like a painting night. Um, and this is a girl who, I mean, left not with a place to belong, could just be on a couch or in a chair somewhere, just rocking and stimming and not out in the world. Um so I think um kind of to go back, part of my story has always been entwined with people with special needs. Um but it's also something too that I laugh because my that my career now and vocation I call working at ZAs isn't just a career, it's definitely a calling. Um is something that I avoided for so long because I think there was a part of me that said, I'm more than just um, you know, Emily, who has foster kiddos um in her house with special needs. And so in college, I did um instead of going into special education, um, I did family stress and coping under human development, which is so different. You know, yeah, yeah. Totally different. Totally different. Um but yeah, but just to see how God has brought full circle that whole story and upbringing um has just been really sweet. And I know the compassion and love um that I have for each guest that comes to CAs is because of Josie. It's because of Brett, it's because of Caleb, it's because of all of the foster kiddos and um our family that yeah, that have influenced me.

Mac 12:40

It's so fun to get an update, to get updates on Josie because um I remember this was years ago. I went to your parents' house to have dinner. It was just Josie and I was before we had kids.

Emily 12:54

Gosh.

Mac 12:55

And Josie was there. And, you know, Josiah, we talked at the introduction of our last episode just about how like sometimes individuals with disabilities they behave in non-ordinary ways. And it can it can prov provoke some anxiety of like, what are they doing? What are they going to do? How do I relate to this? There's a lot of uncertainty around um someone else's behavior and what does it look like to interact. And I remember feeling that with Josie because she was stimming out probably making loud noises and banging her head.

Emily 13:27

And and for Joe's, like that's how she communicated. Um thankfully, there was an amazing teacher and speech therapist that taught her to use an iPad and to use her words. And so that has unlocked a part of her we never expected. Um, but she still has those behaviors because that's her safe place. Yes, you know?

Mac 13:48

And now like with a son with uh like Griffin stims out, yeah. He bangs his head, um, like his entire bed is padded so he doesn't give himself a concussion. And we're working on an iPad for him to be able to use his words, which this fast week one was I want football. I want football.

Emily 14:10

Okay, so um I will probably misquote this, but there is some there is a book written by somebody who is nonverbal autism, like whip smart, um, but they discovered she could type too with an iPad and she wrote a book. And in there she talks about how um people are vending machines and people are like, I will go to you, and you are my football person. You are my, you know, speech, you are my whatever. For Josie, instead of I want football, it's I want to go in the hot tub. I want to go to Culver. And that's anytime I talk with her, those are the first sentences.

Josiah 14:47

Hot tub and culverse. Yeah, yeah.

Emily 14:49

Yep. I mean, she has a great life.

Josiah 14:51

Yeah, we all like hot tubs and culverts.

Mac 14:52

If I could be in a hot tub right now while eating culverse. Oh, man.

Josiah 14:57

Right. Yeah.

Emily 14:58

So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Josiah 15:01

I'd love to hear more. Um, you mentioned, you mentioned there was a period of resistance to the sense of calling you had to work with people with disabilities.

Emily 15:10

Yep.

Josiah 15:11

Um before we talk more about what's happening at Zachariah's Acres, I'd love to hear more about uh what were some of those milestone moments in your process of maybe resisting this where you realized, no, this is more than just something that I have a big heart for. Yeah. This is something that God's calling me into.

What Is Zachariah’s Acres

Emily 15:29

Yeah, absolutely. So I would say, you know, when I write out of school, I worked at a children's hospital for about three and a half years and I loved it. I was a child life specialist. It was great. Um, but I had kind of hit that point where I couldn't advance any further at the hospital. And I just felt like something was missing. And then ironically, I would often be called into the rooms where there would be individuals with special needs there. Um, and I'd be like, okay, here we go again. Um, I'm getting called in where they're having a blood draw and need somebody to support this kiddo. And there were the hindsight, I see God's thread through my whole story. But for me, I really, you know, we all go through this, but I wanted something separate. My mom um went, got her master's in special education, and that's just been a part of our whole family. And so I think I had this idea of like, I need to be doing something different. That's just me. Um, and really wrestled with that. Um, but then I had a moment too when I was, you know, in the hospital and just wanting something more. Um, I came back here uh for the weekend and um kind of shared that with my parents. And then when I got back to work, they um my manager called me in the office and with tears in her eyes said, Emily, um, this was in like height of the recession of 2008. Um, we have to cut your hours. And I know that means we're gonna lose you. And for me, that was devastating because I thought, okay, what am I gonna do next? Um, and just really wrestling internally with like, is there child life? It was a very competitive field and there wasn't anything there. What's next in that? And so um I ended up moving home. I was gonna go get my master's um in counseling, and um actually was here at Cross Point with my parents, and we saw this cute little ad that said fall fast for people with special needs. And uh my mom and I went there and it was Zachary Zacres, and it was literally just a farm field. And I even remember then looking at this map of what this place could be and seeing it and going, well, maybe I could be a child life specialist there or an activities director or something, and not putting the two and two together of like, okay, Emily, like that that thread of okay, could could your story be a part of this and what's next? Um, and I think really wrestling with God using all of your story, the good parts, the hard bits um for his glory has been a theme throughout my whole life. Um and that's taken some wrestling, some wrestling of who I am, who I'm created to be, but also of um why, like Lord, why did you put me in this family? You could have put placed me anywhere. Um, and I had to wrestle through that. And um I think in that wrestling came definitely a reliance on the Lord that I never would have had, but also just that deeper calling and conviction that okay, come back to the basics of like what are the gifts, what are the skills, how is God working in your life? Um, and just do that next right thing. And for me, um it was coming back home after my hours were cut and serving my sister. She was in a really hard season at the time. And I remember praying, like, okay, Lord, like if this is the reason you're having me do this, if it's just for one person, that's enough. Um and just that honest prayer of saying, okay, like if my life is just to serve her right now, that's enough.

Mac 19:23

So it seems like the tug of war was sort of between a family you didn't choose. I mean, we don't get to choose the family we, you know, are part of and this huge uh focus of caring for people who are experiencing a whole range of disabilities and how that shaped you as a person.

Emily 19:41

Yeah.

Mac 19:41

And then going, hey, I want to choose my own path. Yeah. Like I want to be on my own, and then realizing, oh like and my own my own path might be continuous with this, not incongruent with it.

Emily 19:55

Yeah.

Mac 19:55

What was it like to have that coin land in the slot? Did it bring peace? Like oh gosh.

Emily 20:03

I would say, and I think any of my co-workers or people have known me for a while would agree with this, but even for the past few years or the first few years, um, I wrestled with that, of that calling. And because I think so often we think God's call is going to be very clear and direct, and he's gonna say, Here, this is exactly what I want you to do. And really, it's just those little moments.

Mac 20:31

Um, and so that you have to like step out on the yes, exactly.

Emily 20:36

Step out and say, like, okay, I will light the path. He's not shining a huge beam of light, but it's just those little lights that he just reveals to you. Um, and so to have that, but then rest in the wrestling, I feel like that's when the peace comes. Yeah. Is I had a season, gosh, maybe it was 10 years ago now, um, where I had been just volunteering, doing part-time work with CAs and then wrestling again with, okay, Lord, is this what you're calling me to? Do I really want to go back to and get my master's? Do I want to do something else? Um, but just having that peace through um obedience and through that reflection of saying, okay, like where have you been at work in my life? What are you doing now? Um, and what brings you joy? I mean, I love my job. I get to do so many beautiful things. I took a ranger ride yesterday with, you know, six of our guests, and we were making crazy sounds, and that's glorifying the Lord. Like, that's such a joy. Um, but I think it's being honest in the hard times that really bring brings that peace.

Mac 21:47

Yeah. I love what you're narrating that like wrestling deeply with how the Lord is leading, yeah, often doesn't lead to like a crystal clear moment. Sometimes, and we see this in the scripture, there's hesitancy or fear. Around what God's inviting us to do. But as we take steps of obedience and faithfulness, there is a peace and a joy on the other side of that. That's hard to articulate. I mean, I wrestled for years about being a pastor. My association with being a pastor was like pleated khaki pants and sweater vests. I did not want to do that at all. Okay, you are wearing a sweater and khaki pants.

Josiah 22:25

Right. For those who are listening.

Mac 22:27

And here I am, full circle. Yeah, full circle. I'm that guy now. It's the worst. Um and so I write laments every day. Like, God, this is what you called me to.

Emily 22:37

You're owning it.

Mac 22:40

I love Zachari's Acres. I've been there personally several times for different fundraisers and events and things like that. Both of my parents serve at Zachari's Acres. Um and so there, I just I feel like a connection to that place that's really deep. Griffin isn't involved there quite yet.

Emily 23:00

Yep.

Mac 23:00

Um, maybe at some point in the future we're we're hopeful. Um, but just tell us a little bit about Zacharize Acres, the mission, the focus, what you all do. I'd love to, I'd love our listeners to hear about that.

Emily 23:11

Yeah, absolutely. So Zacharai's Acres is a nonprofit in Okanemak, just a couple miles down the road from here. And um, our mission is to connect individuals, children with special needs, and their families to the miracles of nature so they know their creator. Um it we have um access to over 175 acres in Lakes Country. It's beautiful. Um, there's ponds, wildflowers, prairie grasses. We have an accessible tree house, a greenhouse, over 8,500 square feet of raised garden beds. Um, as one of our teachers shared a couple weeks ago, it's it's a sanctuary. Um it's a it's a really special set-apart place for individuals with special needs in their families. And you can feel that. We have this beautiful um third of a mile winding driveway where um there's a cross at the front of it. And just that pause of slowing down and noticing God's creation, um, you can feel his presence there.

Mac 24:12

And there's speed bumps, so you have to slow down.

Emily 24:13

There are, you do have to slow down. It's intentional. It's intentional. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we have over uh 175 acres we have access to. Um, and we serve individuals with special needs, whether that be school field trips, public schools coming out, and going for a hay wagon ride, catching fish, doing nature-based crafts, having a s'more around the bonfire. We have um a program called Seed to Sale that partners with nine different schools, and the students come out with special needs to harvest, grow, plant, package up fresh produce for our farm store. Um, and then we have free family events. So a family with a kiddo with special needs can sign up and they can get a chance to come out and enjoy God's creation. But truly at the heart of every single thing we do is community and belonging. I think when we first started is back in 2011, we kind of thought four times a year we'll have a free family event and that'll be enough. Yeah. Um and here we are serving, you know, we served 18,000 individuals last year, which is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy to me. That's just been God's God's greatest gift.

Mac 25:28

Yeah. Yeah. And we um I know Bob Show Walter, yeah, who donated the land for Zachary's Acres. I remember actually uh I was invited to do turkey hunting. I'd never been turkey hunting before before it was there and hearing his dream. Um so it's just really neat how the generosity of people is what you know, generosity is a huge value for our church. And when people give generously and sacrificially, it can create spaces of belonging for people.

Emily 25:59

And I think that's yeah, that's been a big part of ZA's story of community belonging, but also just the generosity of people around us, whether it's businesses who say, Hey, I'll donate electricity to Trent it to your treehouse so that you can have electricity and a safe place for kiddos who maybe need quiet, need a place where they don't want to be around their class of you know, 20. Um, a lot of places aren't set up for individuals with special needs. And so when somebody has a tough day or a meltdown, they're asked to leave, they're kicked out. Um, and at ZA's, uh, we want to support the teachers, the families so that they have a place to just be themselves.

Josiah 26:40

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned the word belonging as one of the core things you're try you're you're wanting for these people. Um we mentioned in the series intro that uh one of our goals for this is to help uh create our church community as a place that can move from mere inclusion to belonging. I'm curious to know how that statement might resonate with you as someone who works so closely with um people with special needs. Um and maybe you could help define the difference between being an inclusive community and being a place where people find belonging.

Mutuality And Power Shifts

Emily 27:19

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like belonging resonates so much with me because part of our family story has been um being kicked out or asked to leave from a lot of places. And I think inclusion can be this idea of if we just let people be a part of it, something that's already existing and just there kind of on the fringes. Um that's not always the full picture. Um, but we're all created for community and for connection. And I think that's where belonging is, is when you're using your gifts, your skills to be a part and an active member in something. And I think at ZAs, that's really at the heart of what we do. Um, we want all of our guests to truly to belong, where their gifts and skills are shining in the community, whether it's somebody who um loves um doing graphic design. We had an intern with special needs who did graphic design last summer. Um, and just to see that joy is really huge. Um but yeah.

Mac 28:20

Let's pause on this for a moment. What would you say are the markers of a community that's inclusive but where someone may not experience belonging versus a community where there is genuine a genuine sense of belonging?

Emily 28:36

Yeah, I think one thing that happens often is um well, let me think. That's such a good question. Inclusion is such an important concept. It truly is, is to have to include. So when I when we were talking about this, I literally looked up inclusion versus belonging. Like what does that look like? What's the definition? And the definition of inclusion is action or state of being included or being with a group or structure. And so I view that as an existing structure that's already there and then inviting somebody in. Whereas belonging is to be a member or part of a particular group or organization, to be rightly placed in a specific position. And I think that shift is from just being there and being present to being an active member. I think when you truly belong somewhere, whether it's a church, a workplace, an organization, you show up and people see you. People notice you, people call you out to include your gifts into that. Um, and you're not just there to show up. I mean, at ZAs, um, we could invite everybody to come and just be there and go fishing and have fun. And you're included and you feel like you're a part of something, but you belong when those individuals have an idea of, hey, could we have a shore fry? Could we have a fish fry? And their um ideas are valued. Um, I think that's part of it is being seen and recognized. That's kind of the shift of just being a part of something to truly um being someone who's shaping and a deep a deeper role, you know, having those personal connections.

Mac 30:24

Yeah. Well, thanks for doing the homework. Um I would I would say to interact with you, Emily, I think that you can't have belonging without inclusion.

Emily 30:37

Agreed.

Mac 30:37

So I'm not like wanting to poo-poo on inclusion.

Emily 30:41

Inclusion is so important.

Mac 30:42

And I like again, probably one of my favorite coffee shops is inclusion coffee. I love their mission. Phenomenal person. And I think that they, because they have created uh a space where inclusion is the priority, belonging is the result. Yeah.

Emily 30:59

So, and so here's a thing too, and I think inclusion is being a part of that. And I even think of like McKenzie and what she does with her uh team members. They're included, they're a part of it. But they also belong because they go and they go to like brewers games and they have their Christmas parties. We do the same at ZA's where um the garden club members come and they're included. They're a part of Garden Club every Monday. But they also um are getting together on the off Mondays to go bowling, to go to somebody's house and have lunch. I think that's the shift of yes, you can be included in an activity or a space, but belonging is when those relationships are deepened outside.

Mac 31:42

There you go. So I I want to try this on.

Emily 31:46

Yeah.

Mac 31:46

Um, because I've been wrestling with this question of what is the difference between inclusion and belonging. And one of the things that I am try trying to think through is um belonging is when mutuality begins to take shape. And I kind of think through like a power differential that uh many spaces where there's inclusion, the basic setup is one group of people is including the other. Like I'm creating space for you, and then I'm serving you. And often the reward is I feel good about that.

Emily 32:22

Yes. Yeah.

Mac 32:22

What I'm naming is something different. Belonging happens when, as you were saying, they shape the environment. There's mutuality.

Emily 32:29

Yeah.

Mac 32:29

We're coming together and there's reciprocity, and there's mutual knowing and connection. I know you, and you actually know me. Know me. Yeah. And it just seems that I imagine one of the challenges you face at Zachari's Acres is that there are a lot of people who come and volunteer, but it's almost entirely on their terms.

Emily 32:52

Yep.

Mac 32:53

Um, serving this population of people. And of course, that has the natural byproduct of I feel good about that. But it has to go beyond that. It does. Do they know you? Do it's so much easier to go to someone else's space and serve them versus inviting them in. What your parents did, which is actually creating space in my own life, the rhythm, part of my home, part of my community, such that you're actually a fabric of my daily life. Yeah.

Learning Through Imperfection

Emily 33:21

Yeah, absolutely. And I think so often when people come to serve or to volunteer, they expect, okay, I'm gonna bless the people around me and show up and feel good. And that is a hundred percent true. But also we miss on such a gift because I I believe every single guest at CAs, they are serving us in their interactions, in the ways that they reflect their creator, in the love, the unconditional love and hugs and high fives is such a gift. And I think, you know, even just hearing you speak, I think of a volunteer who she's been with us for, gosh, I want to say eight or nine years. Um, we um our property is a neighbor to Angels Grace Hospice, another amazing organization in the area. Um, and we often will encounter people who are walking the property, grieving the loss of a loved one. Um, and this individual, we met her um walking the property. She had just lost her father. Um, and we shared a little bit about what CAs does. And she said, Well, I'd love to come out and garden. I love to garden. I'm an active um gardener, but I don't know about working with individuals with special needs. And I said, Well, that's kind of non-negotiable. Yeah. Um, they'll be here. And she did. And it took time and vulnerability and wrestling, but now she won't come on site unless she's actively engaged with the guests and baking with them. She has taught them how to make bread, she makes jam with them. Um, she goes out to the gardens and harvests lettuce and makes beautiful homemade dressing for salad. And so to see that shift from just including them to really coming up with recipes and creating that environment of true belonging, I think that happens with time and with being vulnerable and honest with um yourself.

Mac 35:15

When you um have someone who's interested in volunteering as actors, is there a training they go through? And if so, like what do you what are some of the primary pieces you're like teaching them?

Emily 35:26

Yeah, that's a great question. So um yes, I would say a light training, because I truly believe the best training is um face-to-face and active to have somebody could come alongside of you and support you and to process something afterwards. Um, so our volunteers, we do like a brief, you know, phone call, make sure that they're a good fit, where are their skills? But then we say, okay, come alongside of us, be a part of Garden Club, come for the last half an hour, check us out, um, and then jump in. What are what do you love to do? And approaching the guests with more of a, I don't know, a more compassionate and just open stance, I have found is so much more fruitful than coming in and saying, this is how you should interact with individuals with special needs. Um, and I think that's a barrier for a lot of people, is where we can have our assumptions of how I should interact. And obviously, interacting with Griffin or Josie or any of our other guests, it's different. Um, and it takes just that time and presence and awareness.

Mac 36:39

Yeah. I think it one of the things I've noticed and observed as people relate to Griffin. Um the most, the most helpful and I would argue the most beautiful is when people attend to themselves while they learn to interact with Griffin.

Emily 36:55

Yeah.

Mac 36:56

I remember there's an incredible lady, her name's Sue Allen, and she was one of the paraprofessionals at Parkland where Griffin did elementary school. And she was she's such a dynamite woman. So incredible. And one day I would I picked up Griffin, and he was in this phase of when he didn't get his way, he'd pinch or scratch. Like that's instead of using his words, he's letting you know, I don't want to do this. Yep. He's gotten more creative. This year he's we're getting notes home that he's getting in trouble because he's avoiding work by asking for hugs. So that's that's better than pinching and scratching. Yep, yep, that's good. It's a better strategy.

Emily 37:30

I mean, yeah, I remember that season with Joe's where she would hit and then, you know, they use your words.

Mac 37:37

Yep. And so I'm picking them up, and Sue was bringing them out, and I this pinching and scratching thing is kind of stressing Josie and I out because it's like these are people who are caring for him, and you're being a turd. Just stop it, you know. And um, and I remember we were kind of like doing the handoff, and Griffin uh scratched Sue, like right in front of me. And I was just like, oh, that little punk. And I looked at Sue and I said, I'm so sorry. And she goes, Oh, no, don't be. This is part of him learning.

Emily 38:08

It is. Yeah.

Three Practices For Belonging

Mac 38:09

So she's like extending to him grace, and she goes, and it makes me such a better person to learn how to be patient and kind and part of his process. And I just thought, like, wow, what a toggle. Like grace to Griffin and attending to myself and like how these interactions are growing me as a person. And I think if people brought that basic default to interacting with individuals with disabilities to go, there's gonna be grace that's needed here.

Emily 38:37

Yeah.

Mac 38:37

Um, and as I interact, like, where is my comfort zone being stretched? And what is that teaching me? Where am I having to be patient or resilient or persevere or whatever it might be? Um, and then mutuality is a result because we learn, we're we're growing together. Yeah, right.

Emily 38:55

Yeah, yeah, and not overlooking the gifts of that too. Like you said, um, noticing how you're being stretched and shaped, but also I think working with and being surrounded by individuals with special needs. You noticed how you're being changed and how the Lord is working in your heart. It's it can be so humbling, um, but also so joyful because there is that sweet spirit. Um even with, you know, you saying how Griffin now is like going in for the hugs, that just makes you laugh. And I think that's that's part of the Lord's grace too. Totally. You know? Yeah.

Mac 39:33

What would you say? I mean, you have an audience here, and there are unhelpful ways that people engage that can be even hurtful and harmful.

Emily 39:40

Yeah.

Mac 39:40

What would you say are like, you know, don't do this? Because Josiah, you name like, hey, sometimes if I'm not as familiar with this, part of me is uh I'm like uncomfortable and I don't want to mess up. I don't want to mess up. So are there any things you'd say, yeah, just don't do this?

Emily 39:56

Don't okay. This is something that I has I've always struggled with is when you're interacting with a family, especially with a little one with special needs, is how we are all quick, and I've caught myself doing this to speak to the parents instead of the child. And I think that's one thing that it starts with acknowledgement of looking that kiddo in the eye, or we have a lot of young adults that come to Saccharise Acres, to speak to that young adult, even if they're nonverbal, even if you don't know where they're at, because um they deserve your acknowledgement. And that's part of dignity, right? Of just acknowledging a person. And so I think that's one thing. And then also assumptions. I think that's huge, is we're quick to assume based on an outward appearance, but you don't know what's what are their gifts, what are their skills, what is their level. Um and just to enter into somebody as a fellow human to get to know their interests, whether it's Lord of the Rings all the time. Or not that we know that from experience. Yeah. Um, but to just really experience that and to find that common connection. Um, I think that's where sometimes we want to steer people into our lives instead of just meeting them where they're at.

Mac 41:20

Totally. I mean, you even said Josie loves the hot tub and culvers. And it's like if you can see these individuals as they're just like us in many respects, they have their favorite this or that. What if I got to know them well enough? Like you would learn the songs that Griffin likes. Yep. You know, he loves music. You'd you'd learn his favorite foods, like you know?

Emily 41:42

Well, and and I think there's this uncanny ability. I don't know if you've seen this with Griffin, but with Josie especially, she can read people and people who are genuine versus people who come in with maybe their own assumptions and their issues. Um, and she's a good read at people around her because she's noticing and observing and always watching. Um and that that reminds me too of just um to just pay attention to the people around me. Yeah.

Josiah 42:14

This is really good. It's really helpful. Uh I mean, you weren't here for part of the other conversation, but um, you know, someone who has less experience working with people with disabilities, um it's really helpful to hear some of these stories and some of these things. I'm wondering, you know, you you're mentioning about how uh how your life's enriched by um being around more people in in ways that maybe some of us who are uh not as proximate to uh some of these situations. Um, what are I would love to hear some stories, if you can think of some, of where you saw someone come in, maybe timid, uh, to want to just volunteer and can and like I'm contributing to them.

Emily 43:01

Yeah.

Josiah 43:01

And where they maybe saw some of that unlocking of like, oh now this person is enriching my life. Like I'm here learning from them. I'm not here just teaching them to do something. Yeah. I'd love to hear if you have some stories.

Emily 43:12

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I have so many, but um, I I just think of like we had somebody who two years ago knew to the area. Um she showed up. We one of our fundraisers is a Christmas tree cut. So her and her husband came out to ZA's to cut a Christmas tree. And I gave her a ride and tour around the property, and she kind of said offhand, like, hey, we're looking for a place to volunteer. Um, and I remember she showed up her first day and was nervous and asked the question of, do you have training? Like, what can I do? Like, how can how can I interact with individuals with special needs? And we answered her questions, but also said, just have fun, support them, um, be there. And now to see her light up and use her gifts and really to build. Um, she was in the kitchen with some guests the other day and they were baking and they totally forgot the oil out of the recipe. And instead of being like beating herself up and being like, okay, we did this wrong, just to laugh about it and the whole group to laugh about it. Um I just saw this marked from going from somebody who is wanting like perfection into embracing um the imperfection and finding beauty in it. You know, and I think that's a that's a big lesson working with individuals with special needs is just seeing the beauty in the challenges and in things that society might view as imperfections, really in God's eyes, um, are gifts. Yeah.

Mac 44:45

Yeah. And there's like a huge, I mentioned this in the last episode, but there's a lot of theological thinking that's happening on that level because we often treat disability as something to be fixed or healed or whatever, rather than as um gifts to be embraced.

Emily 45:02

Yeah.

Mac 45:02

And I do think there's gifts and lessons in that. I admire some things about Griffin that are tied to his disability. So it's not like he has really a choice, but there are ways that I wish I was like him.

Emily 45:13

Yeah.

Volunteer Pathways And Next Steps

Mac 45:13

He has zero like social awareness in many respects. And with that comes like a lack of um self-consciousness that like acts on what he should be. So he just shows up as himself, authentic. And I wish I had more of that. Oftentimes we're living in a culture where, like you're saying, don't forget the oil. Yeah. Or that is like a knock against your competency, or like, you know, yeah.

Emily 45:38

And they're not gonna ask me to volunteer ever again. Right. I forgot the oil. Yes.

Mac 45:43

And I think that like sharing regular space with folks who are disabled sort of removes some of that self-consciousness that we cling to. The image, the image we try to manage, it just sort of like goes out the window as we can embrace our common and shared humanity.

Emily 46:00

Well, and I think one of the the gifts, how our community at CAs and just community of individuals with special needs have impacted me personally, is I can show up on hard days and they notice it. And they notice it, whether I try to put a face on or not, and give me a hug or a high five or say, what's wrong? What's going on? Um, and that is humbling to have somebody who you're there to serve instead of turning around and being Jesus to you. Like that is such a gift. And I think we overlook that if we just kind of shy away and say, okay, you know what? I'm gonna interact on just a more surface level. It takes getting to know somebody and and witnessing them, just just seeing them.

Mac 46:47

I think it gets at that mutuality that we were talking about. One of my heroes is Henry Nowen, who um I've shared his story in much more depth before, but he left a hugely prestigious academic career at Ivy League um institutions to um be part of a community of living residentially with people of disabilities. And so, first of all, there's obviously a step out of the spotlight towards something that's more secluded and unknown. But what also struck me, and it's a huge part of his writing, is just it wasn't an environment where like he's serving them. It was an environment where they're doing life together. Yeah. Which I just think is significant.

Emily 47:30

I think that's a shift too for the belonging, is doing life together. And and going through cleaning up the messes together, doing the dishes together, um, those everyday things is that big shift. Totally. Right.

Mac 47:45

Right now, Griffin is obsessed with doing the dishes. He doesn't help. He stands, this is what's happening is uh it's it's so funny because it's making my job ten times more difficult. I'm usually the one like scrubbing the pans at home and like you know, over the sink, and he stands on my foot. So he's always standing on my foot, and he puts his head between my arm and my my body. So his head is like in my armpit, and he just stands and watches it says bubbles the whole time. Bubbles? Bubbles? It's so cute.

Emily 48:16

He just wants the bubbles. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why Josie loves the hot tub.

Mac 48:20

Yep, yep.

Emily 48:22

I love it. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.

Mac 48:24

Well, it is praxis time. This is good. Nope, wrong one.

Emily 48:26

Praxis podcast.

Mac 48:27

There it is. Um, each episode, I mean, we have a lot of conversation and dialogue, but one thing that we're really committed to is we actually have to embody this and then reflect on how it goes. That's how we learn and grow. It makes zero difference if we just discuss things and then walk away and don't do anything differently. And um, maybe as an Enneagram two with a one-wing, Emily, that's your wiring. You are a classic overachiever. So not at all. I love this. So we were like, hey, let's just come up with some practices in the moment based on our conversation. And Emily came up with three of them. So I'm just gonna turn it over to you and you walk us through these three practices and we'll talk about each one.

Closing And What’s Coming Next

Emily 49:13

Yeah. So I think, and Josiah, I appreciate just your honesty of not having a lot of experience with individuals with special needs, because I was when I was thinking about this, I was thinking really the the best thing that we can do and we can practice every single day with somebody with special needs or anybody else is to be present with who you are with. And so whether it's somebody with special needs, you're encountering maybe there's a young lady, I'm thinking going back to Culver's, um who's delivering your food. Instead of just saying thank you and looking away because you're uncomfortable, to stop to look her in the eye and say thank you, that might be the only eye contact she receives that day. And I think there's that connection starts with just being present um and seeing that person, even on just that little level.

Mac 50:05

And huge. And Jesus did this.

Emily 50:07

He did.

Mac 50:08

Uh Josiah, you and I were spitballing about this kind of offline a couple weeks ago. But there are stories in the gospels where someone who has a disability is like wanting Jesus' attention, and the people around Jesus, including his own disciples, are like silencing that person as if that person is a waste of time or not worthy of Jesus' attention. And Jesus stops. So think about Bartimaeus for instance. He stops and interacts with him and then heals him. And what I think is often interesting in those stories, and this is a through line, is that oftentimes the person who is disabled has a name. They're given a name, and the other characters aren't mentioned by name. And it's a way of like it's like a way of elevating their dignity. Yeah. You know, you even see that with like the rich man, quote unquote, and Lazarus. Lazarus has a name, even though he's the poor beggar, the rich man names remains anonymous.

Emily 51:02

Yeah.

Mac 51:03

I think there's a couple things that are happening in those who are disabled being given a name in these gospel stories. One is it's elevating their dignity. This is a person with a name. Know it, you know? Yeah. But then there's also this piece where they know that person's name because they likely became part of the community.

Emily 51:20

Yeah.

Mac 51:20

The early church community.

Emily 51:22

Yep.

Mac 51:23

Um, and so when you say, you know, be present, yeah, I want to say yes. You have to see individuals with disabilities, you have to move toward them rather than silence them or ignore them. And maybe a first step is to get to know their their name.

Emily 51:37

Yeah.

Mac 51:38

And there is a group of people who come, I don't know, it's not every week, but every few weeks. Um, they're part of a residential facility that um brings individuals with disabilities to worship with us, and they often stand on the front row. And I just want to challenge our community during community time, that front row should be packed with people getting to know them.

Emily 51:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Mac 52:00

That's like a tangible thing you can do is be present. They should never be standing there by themselves. They should be experiencing the overwhelming presence of a community that sees them.

Emily 52:09

Yeah, and meets them where they're at. It's funny you mentioned them because one of them, I was at the um between services and one came up and asked me for prayer. Um, and it was, I was like rushing to go somewhere. And I just felt the snudge from the Lord of just stop, be present, pray with her. And her whole group home was like waiting for her. But for me to just instead of just receive her prayer request to stop and pray with her, um, I don't know what the impact was on her, but on me, it was a reminder to say, okay, this matters. Like this matters to bring this to the Lord.

Mac 52:47

Yeah. Yes. So be present, be present. Be the first one.

Emily 52:51

Yep. Second practice. Second practice, and I think we talked about um this a lot, but connecting, of getting to know not just their name, but how they're wired, um, how somebody is wired. That's that next level of relationship of getting to know likes, dislikes, getting to know gifts and skills, where are they thriving? And how does somebody um reflect the image of our creator? And I think that goes deeper. That goes from just knowing somebody, knowing their name and waving and saying hi, but really knowing who they are as a person, um, connecting and loving them.

Mac 53:25

Yeah, and delighting in their idiosyncrasies.

Emily 53:28

Yes. Yeah.

Mac 53:28

I remember this was several years ago, Josiah. I was visiting the student ministries like youth night on Wednesday night, and and Jayla was there. And I I don't I think they had hot dogs or something. There was some like eating component. And um, Jayla had just hot dog buns covered with mustard.

Emily 53:47

Yes.

Mac 53:47

And I just like at first I've never seen this, but I just got curious with her like, why do you like that? What do you like about it? And it was so funny. Yeah.

Emily 53:58

Uh-huh.

Josiah 53:59

Yep.

Emily 53:59

Yeah.

Josiah 54:00

That is really funny. Yeah.

Emily 54:01

My sister, her thing is barbecue. Everything has barbecue sauce on it. Everything. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mac 54:07

What's stirring for you as we name these first two practices, Josiah, of like be present and then focus on connection? Yeah. Anything bubble up for you?

Josiah 54:18

Yeah, I think well, number one, I I find it very helpful that they're incremental.

Emily 54:22

Yeah.

Josiah 54:23

These practices.

Emily 54:24

Yeah. Yep.

Josiah 54:25

One is not something that you have to it's just intentionality with where the spaces you're already in, moving beyond that. Um yeah, I'm finding it very inspiring. I'm remembering back to, I mentioned this in the last episode in high school, uh, middle school and high school, uh, we had a couple of friends, and my sister would be able to name them two, Michael. Michael and Colin. Um, they were both wonderful people. And I do remember there were times Colin came to our church on during the the middle of the week, and there were times when uh it can be awkward.

Emily 55:04

Uh-huh. Yeah.

Josiah 55:05

Colin was a sweet kid. Um, but also did not understand when he was interrupting your conversation with someone else.

Emily 55:12

No social awareness.

Josiah 55:14

No. Um it but he's the but as um as you're willing to push through some some of the awkwardness and the tension you might feel of like, oh, I don't know. Or what I hear you naming too is like, and it's helpful that even you who's working very presently with people with special needs, has it as a calling. Still has to you still have to remind yourself, hey, I gotta slow down enough to care about this person here.

Emily 55:42

Yeah.

Josiah 55:43

And I remember feeling that tension a lot with uh because Colin would come along every Wednesday night after church. We would go out to culverse. Um and and he would come along. And um, he would always want a ride, but he wouldn't really arrange it very well with his dad. So it's always kind of awkwardly like who's gonna drive him, and does his dad even know he's going? I don't know.

Emily 56:06

Yeah.

Josiah 56:07

Um, and uh he was also um every anytime he saw the police, if we were if we were driving down the road, if he saw the police, he would duck his head under the window because he was afraid of them.

Emily 56:20

Um well, and that's the humor. Like that's the joy of saying, like, okay, it could be awkward or just like embrace the humor.

Josiah 56:27

Or he would always order his meal and you often didn't have enough money and he was he was counting them out, you're helping him and contributing. But also he would order I'm just remembering this right now. He would also he would order his ice cream and his food all at the same time, and he ate very slow.

Emily 56:42

Oh no.

Josiah 56:43

And so by the time he got done with his meal, he always liked to order a banana split. It was always his thing. But it was just soup by the end of the meal. And he's it was just melted ice cream and bananas, just what he wanted and chocolate down at the bottom, and it was everywhere when he was done eating. Those those things were fun. I remember them very fondly.

Emily 57:04

Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, and I think we all have our quirks, right? And so I think that's where um it's it's celebrating those. Yeah.

Mac 57:14

So be present, connect, and then what's a final practice?

Emily 57:19

Um, this one I think is the most important. Um, keep showing up. I think it's the hardest thing to do. Um, and you know, referencing being awkward or having things, I mean, this this step in any relationship is the most important. And I think we talked about this a little bit, but families or individuals with special needs are often overlooked and often um isolated where they don't have a church home, they don't have a community of people, a small group because of behaviors, because of just health challenges. Um and so when you're connecting with somebody, um, keep showing up for them on good days, hard days, invite them, even though they have to cancel a couple of times. Um, they keep saying no. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. You don't know if their kiddos have been up till 2 a.m. the past six nights in a row. You don't know if they had a two-week-long hospital stay or are going through extra testing. Um, but keep showing up and being there for them. And I think that's the most vital because if you're going to truly belong somewhere, it's not just when things are going well. Um, you need that community when it's hard too.

Mac 58:34

Yeah. And and with the keep showing up, I think there's some perseverance required because the feedback you're going to get when interacting with some folks who have a disability isn't going to be instant. It's going to take some time. And there have been several moments where even yesterday, I mean, I get home and Griffin follows me around for the first few minutes and I'm asking him, How is your day? And sometimes he'll tell me, he'll talk about his day. Other times he, it's like, it is not registering.

Emily 59:03

Yep.

Mac 59:04

And I've noticed people who are trying to be present and connect. And if Griffin doesn't respond in a certain way, they move on. They they give up.

Emily 59:14

Yeah.

Mac 59:14

And it's like, ah, you know, I had my spiritual director once said, you know, when you're praying and you're not getting anything from God, don't leave a don't leave early.

Emily 59:25

Yeah.

Mac 59:25

Because you could be leaving three minutes before you heard his voice.

Emily 59:28

Yeah.

Mac 59:29

And I often think it's something like that. Like you have to you you quit too early. Yeah. If you would hang in there a little bit longer, maybe even do it a little bit more frequently, you'd eventually get you might get a response. You know, you got to be patient and persevere a little bit.

Emily 59:45

And circle back to that. And I think that's something too that I remember one of the moms early on in ZA days, um, in my enthusiasm, I was asking all these questions to her daughter. And she said, Emily, just stop. Ask her one question and wait. And that was such wisdom because um individuals with special needs process differently than you and I. Um, and so just to pause, but it also teaches us about how we can listen to each other.

Mac 1:00:18

Yeah.

Emily 1:00:18

Yeah.

Mac 1:00:19

I'm gonna add one more practice that's just coming to me. Um, and that is uh be courageous. Yeah. Um I you're not supposed to want to punch your parishioners as a pastor. Okay. But there have been a few moments where I've just wanted to like sock someone.

Emily 1:00:36

Yeah.

Mac 1:00:37

Um, this was a handful of years ago. Our church sponsored uh on the night to shine, which is like a prom. It's so fun. It's so fun.

Emily 1:00:45

It's like so chaotic. It's so wonderful.

Mac 1:00:48

It's crazy. It's like a prom night for individuals with disabilities of all ages.

Emily 1:00:51

I've never danced so hard in my life that I went to night to shine. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.

Mac 1:00:55

Yep. So we partnered with the Y and helped sponsor this event. And um, of course, we wanted many people from our church to like show up and be buddies. And our church was awesome. Like they cut it on the dance floor. They did a great job. But I remember the following week, I was um greeting or in the foyer, and someone was greeting, and they asked about Night to Shine and how it went. And I said, Oh, it's great and whatever. And and the woman said, Oh, I could never do that with those people. And just the way she said it, like, I could never be around those people. I just I was like, thank goodness someone else like overheard it and put their arm around me and like ushered me away because I was frustrated.

Emily 1:01:36

Well, and what a gift that she's she's missing by not inviting individuals with special needs into her life. Right.

Mac 1:01:43

But it just highlights like if you're gonna do this work, you've got to get past, you've got to choose courage over comfort. Yep. And you've got to stop worrying about like the appearance of things. Yeah. Amen. Of being associated with this odd behavior or whatever, just get over it.

Emily 1:01:57

Yeah.

Mac 1:01:58

It's worth it.

Emily 1:01:59

Yeah, it totally is worth it.

Mac 1:02:02

Um I imagine there may be people who are listening to this episode and are like, oh, I didn't know about Zachariah's Acres. And I uh I'm maybe I should get involved. Like how can people connect with you either individually or with Zachariah's Acres?

Emily 1:02:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, website is the best way to get a hold of us. Um, Zacharias Acres.org. We have um free events for individuals with special needs in their families. We have fundraisers, whether it's a trail run, a Christmas tree cut, we have a plant sale, um countless ways for anybody to come. We have eggs, yes, we have a farm store that will be open this summer too. Um and that's a way for people to come out and have that first interaction with somebody with special needs, where maybe Lauren's greeting them, opening the door, and welcome welcoming them into the farm store. Um, and that's a great way to dip your toe into the into the water. Um, and so yeah, so website is a great way resource. Um, you can email me, Emily at zakarizeacres.org. Um, yeah.

Mac 1:03:10

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thanks for having me for joining us today. This was great. Um, and we thank all of you for listening. Um, next time we're gonna talk to another friend of mine who's also named Emily. Um uh she's another awesome human being, and she leads a program for individuals with special needs at Ridgewood Church in Minnesota. She also helps run a residential facility for individuals with disabilities. So we're gonna connect and learn from her. Stay tuned, and we will see you next time.

Emily 1:03:42

Praxis is recorded and produced by Crosspoint Community Church. You can find out more about the show and our church at crosspoint WI.com. If you have any questions, comments, or have any suggestions for future topics, feel free to send us an email. Also, if you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Yeah, yeah, for sure.