Consensus as a Catalyst: Turning Ideas Into Execution

If your leadership team can’t reach consensus, innovation stalls.

Disagreement isn’t the enemy—but unresolved conflict is. In this episode, Holly McClung, Senior Managing Director, The Leader Behind the Leaders, challenges a common leadership failure: mistaking strong opinions for progress. Consensus, she argues, isn’t about harmony or compromise. It’s the enabler that allows teams to move beyond ego, binary thinking, and win‑lose debates—unlocking better ideas and sustainable growth.

And the question every leader should sit with: Do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective?

Listen to the full conversation now.

Transcript

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My name is John Fra, and I'm the host of the Impact Exchange at Anura, and I am joined by a very special guest in Holly McClung. Holly has been taunted by me since the first time we met, and there's a wide range of reasons which we will explore. As we go through her topic for today, but Holly, can you please introduce yourself better than I can? Yes. Thank you, John. I'm Holly McClung, senior managing director here at Anura. Background, professionally, an engineer by training. Spent several years in manufacturing, then moved in consumer packaged goods and been in consulting for about. 11 years now doing a little bit of everything. Well, this is what I think about you, okay? This is super important. Globally, in very turbulent times, the world needs Holly. And this isn't me being a nice person. This is telling the truth. So when you have in the world turbulent times, you need to sell for that. And I wanna bring it down to business because our clients call you for a very spec, well, lots of reasons, but one of the reasons that I know about. Is opposing points of view. We've got a senior executive leadership team. They all have very strong points of view and none of them agree. And you know, as Brett Stevens told us about a year ago on the impact exchange, this kind of argument or debate or disagreement is very useful to innovate and get to better results. But if they never align, we have a problem. So can you share with me some of the things that you see with disagreements and challenges? Then? How do we get'em together? First of all? Let's just state the obvious, like we should expect this. So we walk into a conversation trying to make a decision, trying to get aligned, and we just expect we're all gonna naturally agree. So that's the first mistake, right? So we need to expect that we're probably not gonna see things exactly the same. Um, so I think from the beginning we set ourselves up a little bit to fail. Part of this also though, is biology. So it's true. Well, neuroscience here and we all know a little bit about about everything, right? But when we encounter a different point of view, our brain perceives it as a threat. So you have a different point of view for me. And immediately my prefrontal cortex is gonna detect a threat. Ah, this is different. And so there's a biological response that we have to first kind of recognize and when facilitating clients, I see it, right? We see kind of that threat detection. So what happens then is we can't access logic. So we kind have a lot of things working against us, I think, from the beginning. And so walking into these conversations, first of all, I've learned over the years, expect disagreement. Expect conflict. No, that's really the starting point, not. Something that's like an anomaly. Well, it's interesting. I just talked to Ambassador Lee Feinstein about this, and he talks about it sort of on a global theater level, but it's fascinating how the two of you have so much in common with your approach. So as you walk into this conflict, you have two opposing groups. Where do we start? Do we start with the facts? Do we start with the head of the heart? Where do we go with this? How do we start the process? We start small. First of all, we oftentimes are wanting to take on the big thing. So we've got a big disagreement, a big decision, but it's easier just to start small because actually, John. Oftentimes there are areas of agreement and it helps to take a step back and help. As a facilitator, I can help clients do this'cause I'm not so close to it. Actually. I think we're agreeing on a lot of things. Let's start from the common ground. Let's start small and maybe we can work our way into the harder things as we first start from a place of, okay, maybe there are things that we disagree on. Let's start from agreement. Let's go from there. Let's tackle some small things and then build into the bigger things. So I think that's important. You know, I think oftentimes we wanna just go straight into that difficult thing, and that's just not the best approach. We have to almost build the muscle in the conversation of being able to solve. The big thing, I don't wanna overly state this, but this is a problem of mine, is when you come in and you say, they all must agree with me because it's me. And that's sort of an egomaniacal thing, right? It's egomaniacal to say, listen, let's just do the big thing. We can all agree you guys are wrong. I'm right. Let's just do that and then we'll figure out the other stuff, which is an insane approach. And I'm not gonna hit the third rail of politics in detail today, and I'm not gonna go after one side or another. But when we look at our entire population. I think we're only talking about big divisive issues and we've stopped talking about the things that bring us together. And so it's interesting as is in the world and in our personal lives. It also is in business and you're the expert, and I wonder if it does translate to your personal life, but we'll start with the business side. Do you think it's a trust issue? Are you building trust between opposing groups before we go into the big things? Well, it goes back to the neuroscience. You're also bringing down the defenses. You start to see, wait a minute, you have this emotional reaction when someone disagrees, but hang on. We actually have some things in common. Actually, we're on the same team. Actually. This person's a human. And so I think it starts to bring down that emotion and actually allow us to access those higher thinking that exists in our brain that sometimes we're not able to access when we're moving fast and wanting to just get things done. But I think what it does is it brings down our defenses and lets us, access logic, lets us access critical thinking, lets us access open-mindedness. I mean, I think that's another thing is. You know, oftentimes in these disagreements, if we can just admit we all have something to learn, guess what? We don't all know everything. I think sometimes bringing humility into that conversation, curiosity, there's a desire to really seek to understand and to really be open about that. But we can't do that if we come in with our defenses up. So first it's kind of like. Getting us to a place where we can be open, we can be curious, and yes, trust is a piece of it as well.'cause as you start to build common ground, it's like I think I can be open to this conversation and this point of view. And it just changes you, changes how you show up in the conversation. So that's like the nice version of the conversation. But how Holly McClung argument whisperer, I would like to know. When have you gotten to an impasse where there are gonna be winners and losers? It's not that you have to lose completely, but have you been in situations where there are clear winners and losers and, and how do you recover from that? So you're pointing out something that I was gonna bring up. We oftentimes have a win-lose mindset. When we come into disagreements, I often try to promote a win-win. There usually is something for everyone, and oftentimes I do think we come into these conversations, it has to be A, it has to be B, we're have very like binary. Thinking also my way or the highway. I challenge that because oftentimes it's not A, it's not B, it's actually C or D. E, but if we're stuck in this binary win-lose, it's gotta be my way or your way, and there's gonna be a winner and there's gonna be a loser. That actually stifles creativity, stifles problem solving. That stifles innovation. So I often push my clients beyond that. Trying to get underneath the position. So the position is what I think and what you think, but actually what's behind the position. Why do you think that? What values and experience are you operating off of? How can we find where we have common ground in the values and the experience and the desires that we have to do good things to maybe come up with a win-win? So I challenge the notion of win-lose. Also on agreement. We often think about coming to consensus or agreement as like, we're miles apart and we're gonna come to perfect agreement and everyone's gonna be happy, or there's a winner and a loser, right? This binary thing, I would like to say sometimes success is actually coming just closer together, where we're kind of in the same ballpark and we can be supportive of one another with integrity. So maybe the position we land in is not my first choice. I've given a little bit, but I can support it with integrity and that that's oftentimes where we try to get, we're not in a hundred percent agreement, but we can live with it and support it with integrity, and that's important in business because you can't get the perfect decision or the right decision. All the time. And we all know things unfold and the world changes, and you have to be agile. And so can we be good enough to land here and support it with integrity? And then I always say, reserve the right to get smarter. Like let's see what happens and revisit it. Has our thinking changed? Have we gotten smarter? When you do something differently, you do say a lot to me. Can you live with it and support it with integrity? And I think in a perfect world where we're dealing with. Responsible, mature adults. I think that that's possible. But the emotion especially, and again, let's just talk about business in the C-suite of businesses right now, where there's tremendous pressure and very, very strong points of view. You know, we used to talk about one of my family members, we said he's always certain and rarely, right? They probably say that about me too, but the point is sometimes there is going to be someone who is just wrong and I am curious. Because of, again, your demeanor and disposition is very calming, is how do you handle when there is a loser? We each want a totally different outcome. We've gone through the process, we did the logic, you did all of the facilitations required so that we now all understand A was right, B was wrong. Is there some kind of reconciliation to get everyone to be okay? We always talk about in war, we never want to beat our opponents so badly that they never recover, right? In this situation, which is sometimes war inside of the boardroom, what do you do? First of all, we're not gonna get our way sometimes. It's just the way it goes, right? Someone once said to me, do you wanna be right or do you wanna be effective? And I think with executives reminding them the importance of being effective, and they may not always be right. It's like check your ego at the door and know that sometimes. You're gonna be the one to have to back off your position. I think what's most important, John, is framing the conversation of, first of all, decision rights within the C-Suite. Who really owns the decision? Who's really accountable for the outcomes related to that decision? And then ultimately the buck stops there. And usually that's the CEO or the board chair, whomever. But when you set up one of these conversations, you have to be clear on the decision rights. And sometimes the role of the rest of the C-suite is really to give input, to give perspective, to give a recommendation. Sometimes they don't own that decision. And so I do find also it's really problematic when these conversations are not. Set up properly. In the beginning, someone comes in thinking they have the authority they don't have, and so that's really problematic. And so I try to kind of head that off a little bit with clarity on why we're here, what we're doing, who owns the decision, what your role is, what their role is, because. Someone may be really disappointed that the decision didn't go their way, but ultimately they didn't own the decision. And so I think that's an important framing upfront that we really didn't talk about initially. You're a very, very structured person and your facilitation strategies are very structured. And I think one thing I would add to what you said about what you do that I see is the structure you set up catches most people before they fall. I know with the work that you do that the rules and structure you set up. Really helps stop people from getting their foot in their mouth before that potential happens, right? By setting up the ground rules, people are avoiding embarrassing themselves and, and avoiding saying things that are career limiting behaviors. So I, I do like that as well. Right. If when we get out of the defensive and the structure is clear, we can work inside of that construct to find a better outcome. Absolutely. In regards to preparation, a lot of what I do, as you know, is I facilitate a lot of workshops. I facilitate a lot of problem solving, process improvement, strategy, all of those things. I like to know what I'm walking into. So to that end, I don't ever wanna walk into a room. There's something you know about to explode and I have no idea. So I often do wanna talk to each participant ahead of whatever session, make sure they understand what we're doing, why we're doing it. Are we making a decision? What's your perspective on the decision? What's your role in the decision? So try to understand what I'm walking into so that I can be really. Effective in helping them get the outcome they want. And part of that also is allowing them to have a voice in it and air any frustration ahead of time so that things don't come out in the moment. It's not the first time they're expressing this displeasure or disagreement. It's like it's known, it's surfaced. And then we have time to, as I said earlier, get the defenses down and really access higher level thinking. I am picturing your clients lying on a couch one by one, you in a chair next to'em with a pencil and paper and saying. How does that make you feel? Oh gosh. No. Not at all. It's funny, workshops are really common in business. People love to get in a room and do an offsite, and I find that so many of them are a waste of time. They're not structured, they're not planned. They're not crisp on what the purpose is, what the outcome is, what the disagreements are, what the different points of view are coming in. And so I really like to bring. Productivity to that because so many people have had bad experiences. You take a day off of work, you come to a workshop, it's a complete waste of time. And so I think with what I've learned to appreciate over the years is really doing the homework and applying the art and science of doing it well and not just winging it. So it's something I, I really love and, and I think clients feel good because ultimately if you can make a decision that's hard to make, if you can get through all the conflict. You can jump ahead. You know, in one day you can take a leap forward by like six months. I'm not kidding. I mean, you think about particularly COVID post COVID era. Do all these teams calls and Zoom calls, and it takes a long time to get to consensus and to get points of view out and to surface disagreement. And so sometimes bringing those people in a physical room and hashing it out with a good plan and a good structure, it's amazing you can make such progress. Well, I wanna end with kind of where we began, which is it's not just supporting the outcome, it's supporting it with integrity. You certainly have the integrity and you're making the impact with all of your clients, and we hear about it every day, and I really appreciate you coming on the Impact exchange to share your story.