Old Gods and New Pagans
"Old Gods & New Pagans" is a welcoming space for new and curious pagans, heathens, and animists to explore the basics of paganism. Rooted in an Animist perspective, this podcast takes an inclusive approach, covering topics relevant to a variety of pagan paths. Each episode breaks down complex ideas into simple, easy-to-understand language, with guest discussions, stories, and insights. Whether you're just starting your pagan journey or looking to learn more, join us as we dive into the wisdom of the old gods and the practices of modern pagans.
Old Gods and New Pagans
Greek Gods: Divine Disasters with Valuable Lessons
Dive into the messy, dramatic world of Greek deities and discover why their flaws make them surprisingly effective spiritual allies in modern life. Unlike distant, perfect beings judging your life choices, these gods and goddesses understand what it means to be beautifully, messily imperfect – because they are too.
The psychological advantage of working with Greek gods lies in their relatability. When your deity once turned a lover into a tree because they were having a bad day, suddenly your own relationship mistakes don't seem so catastrophic. There's solid psychological research supporting this approach: working with imperfect divine figures can significantly reduce shame and self-criticism, making it easier to practice self-compassion. But make no mistake – honoring a deity's humanity doesn't mean excusing toxic behavior. Zeus's serial cheating doesn't make infidelity acceptable; these are cautionary tales showing what happens when power goes unchecked.
Meet four powerful Greek allies who can transform your life: Athena, goddess of strategic wisdom, helps overthinkers make decisions and navigate complex situations with clarity. Aphrodite, fiercer than Valentine's cards suggest, teaches self-worth and healthy relationships – she's less "draw your soulmate to you" and more "stop settling for people who don't appreciate you." Apollo cuts through bullshit with his truth-telling energy, perfect for creative blocks and honest self-assessment. And Persephone, whose journey from sheltered daughter to Underworld Queen represents the ultimate transformation, shows how sometimes apparent disasters are breakthroughs in disguise.
Working with these deities doesn't require literal belief – many practitioners view them as psychological archetypes or symbolic representations of human experience. What matters is whether engaging with these energies helps you live better, make wiser choices, and become more authentically yourself. Through simple practices like offerings, meditation, or asking for guidance, you can access divine perspectives that complement your own thinking.
Join our community through the podcast website or the Pagan Temple Discord server at thepagantemple.com to share your experiences with Greek deities or ask questions about incorporating these practices into your life. Remember, even the gods make mistakes – the trick is learning from them. That's where wisdom comes from.
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Hey there and welcome back to Old Gods and New Pagans. I'm your host, matt Holloway, and if you're just joining us, welcome to the party. We're exploring how ancient deities translate into modern life. Today we're diving into the Greek Pantheon and boy oh boy, do we have some stories to unpack. Do you think your family has drama? Let me tell you about Zeus and his relatives. Seriously, the Olympians make reality TV look pretty tame. We've got affairs, revenge plots, family feuds that last centuries and more daddy issues than a psychology textbook. Zeus alone has more relationship scandals than a politician. But here's the thing, and this is what we're going to explore today. All that messy, complicated, very human drama is exactly what makes Greek gods so damned useful to modern life. These aren't distant, perfect beings sitting on clouds judging your life choices. These are deities with tempers, bad habits and serious character flaws. In other words, they're a lot like us. So why should you care about a bunch of ancient soap opera characters? Well, because sometimes the best teachers are the ones who've made all the mistakes that you're trying to avoid, and sometimes you need spiritual allies who understand that being human or human-like means being beautifully, messily, imperfect.
Speaker 1:Today, we're going to look at why Greek gods are surprisingly relatable, how their flaws can actually help us, and practical ways to work with some of the major players like Athena, aphrodite, apollo and Persephone Plus. We'll talk about how to do this without falling into some common traps. Are you ready? Let's dive in. So let's start with the obvious question why would you want to work with gods who are basically cosmic-level disasters waiting to happen? Well, here's the thing about Greek gods they're not trying to be perfect role models. They're not asking you to live up to some impossible standard of purity or righteousness. They're flawed. They're passionate and often petty beings who understand that life is complicated and emotions are quite messy, compared to some other religious traditions where the divine is presented as perfect, all-knowing and, frankly, kind of intimidating. When your god never makes mistakes, it can make your own mistakes feel pretty damn shameful. But when your god once turned his lover into a tree because he was having a bad day looking at you, apollo, suddenly your own relationship screw-ups don't seem quite so catastrophic. There's actually solid psychological research behind this. Working with imperfect divine figures can help reduce shame and self-criticism. It's easier to practice self-compassion when your spiritual allies also need therapy.
Speaker 1:Now let me be clear about something, and this is important. Honoring a deity's humanity doesn't mean excusing their bad behavior. Zeus, being a serial cheater, doesn't make cheating okay. Ares, starting wars for fun does not make violence acceptable. We're not here to justify toxic behavior just because a god did it. Let me tell you about Zeus and his terrible relationship choices, because this is a perfect example of what not to emulate.
Speaker 1:This guy couldn't keep it in his pants if his life depended on it. He cheated on Hera constantly, usually by shapeshifting into some random animal or object. I mean, the man wants to seduce someone by turning into a swan Fucking swan. Who looks at a swan and thinks, yep, that's attractive? But here's the thing Zeus's stories aren't not meant to be instruction manuals. They're cautionary tales that show us what happens when power goes unchecked, when you prioritize your desires over other people's well-being, when you think rules don't apply to you.
Speaker 1:The Greek gods give us permission to be flawed while still working towards something better. They show us that you can be powerful and make mistakes. You can be wise and still act like a fool sometimes. You can be capable of great love and still hurt the people you care about. You could be capable of great love and still hurt the people you care about. This is huge for those of us who struggle with perfectionism or imposter syndrome. If Athena, goddess of wisdom, once got so jealous of a mortal's weaving skills that she turned the woman into a spider, then maybe it's okay that I sometimes get petty about stupid stuff too. The key is learning from these stories, not repeating them. When we work with Greek gods, we're not worshiping their flaws. We're acknowledging that growth comes through experience, and experience includes making mistakes. So that's the psychological advantage of the Greek gods they meet you where you are mess and all, and they help you work with your humanity instead of trying to transcend it. Because, spoiler alert, you're human. You're going to stay human. Might as well. Get good at it.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about Athena because she's more than just the wise owl lady that you may have seen on a university logo. Yes, athena is the goddess of wisdom, but she's specifically the goddess of strategic wisdom. This isn't the kind of wisdom you get from meditation retreats or fortune cookies. This is practical, get-stuff-done wisdom. Athena is the deity you call when you need to figure out how to navigate office politics, plan a major life change or solve complex problems that don't have an obvious answer. She's perfect for students, professionals or anyone dealing with complicated situations that require both intelligence and strategy. Think of her as your cosmic consultant, who specializes in seeing the big picture while managing all the moving pieces. Here's a practical Athena technique you can use all the time.
Speaker 1:When facing a difficult decision, ask yourself three questions First, what would be the wisest choice long term? Second, what would be the most strategic approach? And third, what solution would create the most benefit for everyone involved? That's Athena thinking in action. Remember, athena is also the goddess of skilled crafts and creative projects. If you're an artist, writer or maker struggling with a project, athena can help you approach your work strategically instead of just hoping inspiration strikes. She's the voice that says okay, this isn't working, let's try a different approach.
Speaker 1:Now here's where Athena gets really interesting for the modern people. She's incredibly useful for overthinkers and people pleasers. You know those of us who analyze every situation to death and worry about making everyone happy. Athena gets it. She's thoughtful and considerate, and she's also decisive and willing to make those tough choices. When you're stuck in analysis, paralysis, channel Athena energy by asking what would Athena do? She'd gather the information. She'd consider the options, make a decision and then act on it. She wouldn't spend three weeks researching the perfect choice or worry about whether everyone approves.
Speaker 1:Let's say you're dealing with a difficult co-worker who keeps dumping their responsibilities on you. The people pleaser in. You wants to just keep helping to avoid the conflict. But Athena would look at this strategically. She'd see that constantly rescuing this person isn't helping anyone. It's enabling their behavior and burning you out. She'd help you figure out how to set boundaries professionally and effectively.
Speaker 1:Athena energy is especially useful in work conflicts because she's diplomatic but firm. She's not interested in drama or power games. She wants solutions that actually work. When someone tries to drag you into the office gossip or work-paced politics ask yourself what would Athena do? Probably something like I'm here to get the job done. Well, how can we make that happen? The shadowy side of Athena because, frankly, every person and every deity has a shadow side is that she can be a bit cold and overly rational. Sometimes you need to feel your feelings instead of strategizing your way out of them, but for those of us who tend to get stuck in emotional spirals, a little Athena energy can be incredibly grounding.
Speaker 1:Okay, now let's talk about Aphrodite, and I want to start by throwing out everything you think you know about her from Valentine's Day cards and love spell Pinterest boards. Yes, aphrodite is a goddess of love, but she's not the fluffy romantic love deity that modern culture has turned her into. Aphrodite is fierce. She's about passion, self-worth and knowing your own value. She's less draw your soulmate to you and more stop settling for people who don't appreciate you. The most important thing to understand about working with Aphrodite is this you cannot love others in a healthy way if you don't love yourself. I know, I know that's become such a cliche that it's practically meaningless at this point, but Aphrodite doesn't deal in empty platitudes. She deals in truth. Aphrodite energy is about recognizing your own worth and refusing to accept less than you deserve. It's about setting boundaries in relationships, knowing when to walk away and understanding that healthy love requires two whole people, not two halves trying to complete each other.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you about one of my favorite Aphrodite stories that perfectly illustrates this whole concept. Aphrodite's stories. That perfectly illustrates this whole concept. When Psyche was forced to complete impossible tasks to win back Eros, aphrodite wasn't being cruel. She was teaching Psyche that love without self-respect and personal strength doesn't last. Psyche had to prove she was worthy of an equal partnership and not just someone to be rescued.
Speaker 1:Here's some real talk. If you're using spiritual practices to try to make someone love you who doesn't, you're missing the whole fucking point. Aphrodite isn't interested in helping you manipulate people into relationships. She's interested in helping you become the kind of person who attracts healthy love. Naturally, working with Aphrodite for healthy relationships means asking the hard questions. Are you compromising your values to keep someone happy? Are you giving more than you're receiving? And are you afraid to be yourself because you think the real you isn't lovable? Aphrodite would say that that last one is complete bullshit, by the way.
Speaker 1:Now let's talk about some of Aphrodite's revenge stories, because they're actually lessons in self-respect disguised as ancient gossip when people disrespected her or tried to deny her power. Aphrodite didn't just get mad, she got even. And while I'm not advocating for cursing your exes, there's something to be learned. There's something to be learned here about not letting people treat you badly. Aphrodite's message is clear you teach people how to treat you by what you accept. If someone consistently shows you that they don't value you, believe them and act accordingly.
Speaker 1:So what are some practical, non-instagram ways to work with Aphrodite? Energy? Start with self-care that actually matters. I'm not talking about bubble baths and face masks. Those are quite nice, but the hard stuff, set boundaries. Say no to things that drain your energy. Do work that feels meaningful. Surround yourself with people who actually like you for who you are.
Speaker 1:Practice we call it Aphrodite honesty about being truthful about what you want and need in relationships, instead of trying to be the cool person or the easygoing guy who never has preferences or complaints and here's a big one. Stop apologizing for taking up space. Aphrodite is unapologetically herself and she expects the same from you. You don't need to shrink yourself to make others comfortable. The shadow side of Aphrodite is vanity and manipulation, using your attractiveness or charm to get things instead of developing genuine connections. When you're working with her authentic energy, you're not trying to trick people into loving you. You're becoming genuinely lovable. Remember that. Let's move on to Apollo and Persephone. These are two deities who are absolutely essential for anyone dealing with healing and major life changes.
Speaker 1:First, apollo Most people know him as the sun god, but that's actually his you could say part-time job. Apollo's main gigs are healing, music, poetry and prophecy. Basically, he's the god of truth-telling and creative expression. He's also the god of medicine, which in ancient times meant understanding that physical, mental and spiritual health are all connected. Apollo energy is perfect for anyone dealing with, say, creative blocks, struggling with self-expression or trying to see their situation clearly. He's the voice that cuts through bullshit and helps you face reality, even when reality is uncomfortable. If you're an artist, a writer, musician or any kind of creative person, apollo can help you get unstuck. But his approach isn't always gentle. Apollo's creative inspiration often comes with a dose of stop making excuses and just do the fucking work. He's less follow your bliss and more follow your discipline. Apollo is also incredibly useful for honest self-assessment. When you're stuck in patterns that aren't working, apollo energy helps you see clearly what needs to change. He's the deity to work with when you need to have difficult conversations with others and with yourself. Here's a practical Apollo exercise that you can trump Once a week, do an Apollo check-in. Ask yourself three questions what truth have I been avoiding? What creative project have I been putting off? What do I need to? Heal, then actually listen to the answers, even if they're uncomfortable. Heal, then actually listen to the answers, even if they're uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Now Persephone Her story is probably one of the most misunderstood myths in all of Greek mythology other than Medusa, and we covered that previously. The popular version is that she was kidnapped by Hades and forced to live in the underworld, but the older versions of the story suggest something a little different that Persephone chose to go to the underworld, that she claimed her power there and that she became queen, not as a victim, but as a sovereign. Persephone is, we can say, the original glow-up story. She goes from being Demeter's sheltered daughter to being queen of the fucking underworld. That's not tragedy, that's transformation.
Speaker 1:Working with Persephone energy is about recognizing that sometimes you have to go through dark periods to claim your power. Sometimes you have to leave behind who you were to become who you were meant to be. Sometimes the thing that looks like disaster is actually your breakthrough in disguise. I've been thinking a lot about this lately, because transformation is messy and our culture doesn't really prepare us for that. We get sold this idea that personal growth should be smooth and linear. You read some self-help books, you do some meditation and you become your best self, but that's not how any of this works. Real transformation often looks like everything falling apart before it comes back together. It looks like outgrowing relationships, careers and versions of yourself that used to fit but, frankly, don't anymore. It looks like spending time in your own underworld, facing the parts of yourself you have been avoiding. Persephone energy helps you navigate these transitions with grace and purpose. She reminds you that the underworld isn't a punishment. It's where you learn what you're made of.
Speaker 1:Both Apollo and Persephone are guides through life transitions, but they approach it differently. Apollo illuminates what needs to change with harsh but necessary light. Persephone holds your hand through the dark periods and reminds you that you're stronger than you know. If you're going through a major life change say divorce, career shift, health crisis, loss of a loved one, etc. These deities can help you see the transformation potential in what feels like destruction. They remind you that sometimes you have to let parts of your old life die to make room for something better. The key with both of them is accepting that growth isn't always comfortable. Apollo won't let you lie to yourself and Persephone won't let you stay stuck in victim mode. They're compassionate, but they're not interested in enabling your small thinking. So let's get practical.
Speaker 1:How do you actually work with Greek gods in 2025 without feeling like you're playing ancient dress-up? First, let's address the elephant in the room. Do you have to literally believe in these deities as real individual beings? Honestly, no, many people do, and that's great for them. Others see them as psychological or human archetypes or symbolic representations of different aspects of human experience. Both approaches are meaningful, valid and effective. What matters is whether working with these energies helps you live better, make better decisions and become more yourself. If thinking about what Athena would do helps you navigate a difficult situation more skillfully, then it's working. If channeling Aphrodite energy helps you set better boundaries in relationships, it's working.
Speaker 1:Here are some simple ways to start working with Greek gods Offerings. They don't have to be complicated. Athena, from what we know, likes olive oil, herbs or anything related to learning and crafts. Leave her a book you've finished or light a candle while you work on a creative project. Aphrodite Likes flowers, honey, anything beautiful and sweet. Apollo appreciates music, poetry or anything related to healing. Persephone, it's known to like pomegranates, flowers or symbols of transformation, but honestly, the most important offering you can make is attention. Spend time thinking about what these deities represent and how their energies show up in your life. Meditation doesn't have to be formal sitting practice. You can meditate on deity's qualities while you're walking, cooking or doing other routine tasks.
Speaker 1:Ask yourself how would Athena approach this problem. What would Aphrodite say about this relationship? How would Apollo see me? How would Apollo help me see this situation more clearly? Simply asking for guidance is incredibly powerful. Before making a big decision, you can literally ask Apollo help me see this clearly. Athena, what's the wisest choice? Or Aphrodite, what would serve my highest good in this relationship? Question that was kind of brought up, you know like is this just therapy with extra steps? You know what? Maybe it is, and maybe that's exactly the point. If thinking about Athena helps you make better strategic decisions, if Aphrodite energy helps you value yourself, if Apollo guidance helps you face difficult truths, then therapy with extra steps sounds pretty good to me. The goal isn't to replace professional help when you need it or to avoid doing your own emotional work. The goal is to have additional tools and perspectives that help you navigate life more skillfully.
Speaker 1:Let me give you some warnings about some red flags when working with any deity, greek or otherwise. If working with a deity makes you feel superior to other people or, like you, have special knowledge that others don't, that's a red flag. Even spiritual ego is still ego and you might want to work on that. If you find yourself using deity work to avoid taking responsibility for your choices, like the gods told me to do this, that's also a problem. Deities can offer guidance, but you're still responsible for your own decisions, your own choices and your own actions. If working with a deity increases your anxiety, makes you feel worse about yourself or encourages unhealthy behaviors, step back and reassess, because genuine spiritual connection should generally make you feel more centered and empowered, not more chaotic. And finally, if you find yourself getting obsessed with signs, omens and messages, to the point where you can't make decisions without some divine input, that's not a spiritual connection. That's spiritual dependency.
Speaker 1:The Greek gods can be amazing allies and teachers, but they're not meant to run your life for you. They're meant to help you run your own life better. So here's what we've covered today. The Greek gods are useful precisely because they're flawed and human-like. They give us permission to be imperfect while still striving to grow and do better. Athena helps us think strategically and make wise decisions, aphrodite teaches us its self-worth and healthy relationships, apollo illuminates truth and supports creative expression, and Persephone guides us through transformation and helps us claim our own power in darkness. These aren't distant, judgmental deities demanding perfection, cosmic allies who understand that being human is complicated, messy, but also very beautiful.
Speaker 1:The next episode we're going to dive into the Celtic paths and separating some authentic practice from touristy nonsense. Trust me, we need to talk about what's real and what's marketing when it comes to Celtic spirituality. I want to hear from you guys have you worked with any of the Greek gods? What's been your experience? What questions do you have about this approach? You can reach me through the podcast website, social media I'll put some links in the show notes. Check us out on the Pagan Temple Discord server. Just go to thepagantemplecom and you can find our community through that, because, remember, even the gods make mistakes. The trick is learning from them. Learn from their mistakes and your own. That's where wisdom comes from. Thanks for listening to Old Gods and New Pagans. I'm Matt Holloway and I will see you in the next one.
