SPEAKER_01 0:02

Good morning. This is the Lane's World Podcast, where conversations are worth hearing and seeing. You can watch each week on Facebook, YouTube, and the LinkedIn. You can also listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And for more information and past episodes, you can check our website, which is behind me, Lanesworld.net. I'm your host, Blaine Greenfield, coming to you from my Zoom studio in lovely downtown Fairview, North Carolina. And each week we focus on positive news and uploading stories about people and organizations both western North Carolina and throughout the country. And toward that end, it's my pleasure to introduce Eric um Hager. I want to get it right. Executive Director of Project HNG, and also in his spare time, North Carolina House 114 representative for being my guest today. Eric, can you feel free to wave to all your fans and friends are watching this? Great to see everybody. Great, and that is Eric. Eric grew up at Hickory Dutch and attended school in Fairview. After graduating from L's high school, he attended the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, and spent 25 years in the U.S. Navy as a helicopter pilot and foreign affairs officer. He retired in 2021, came home to the Blue Ridge Mountains, and now is a neighbor of mine. And so let me ask you, Eric, the first thing I always ask when I meet somebody online is as a kid growing up, right down the road from me, um, did you always know you wanted to be involved in farming?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

You know, I I did. I mean, that's what that's the way we grew up. When I was growing up here in in this little part of the Fairview Valley, uh, we had a big dairy farm. So I spent a lot of time taking care of calves and putting up hay, and that just kind of seemed like uh the a a good life, and I certainly appreciated it. But at the same time, I was I was also interested in sort of getting out and seeing the world. And so I've been lucky enough to to end up doing both over the long haul. Now, so your far your family or the farm, it was a dairy farm at one time? It was a dairy farm when I was growing up, and you know, it it uh we we sort of went under, I guess, in about 1990, 1991.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Okay, because I have to give you a lot of credit. There's a good buddy of mine was also grew up on a dairy farm, and he only couldn't wait to get away because again, you know, his family, and he got tired of having to get up at five o'clock in the morning for um every day, cold weather, 20 365 days a year. And so he did not quite what you did, but he couldn't wait, and he got to join the army. You know, as soon as he graduated high school, he was out of there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah, well, I guess in the end, that's what I did too. But uh the the dairy, you know, we were a small dairy, and and in the early 90s, it was kind of go big or go home, and and we didn't have the space to go big. So um we we uh we sold the dairy, uh, or you know, my my grandparents sold the dairy, and and so I was looking for something else to do and and headed off to the Naval Academy.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

And so when you went to the Naval Academy, what did you study or what were you involved in with the Naval?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

So I studied political science at the Naval Academy, did a you know, master's or a bachelor's degree in political science, and then uh went on to flight school and and flew helicopters uh all over the world, um, did a funny scholarship in Turkey, and then went back uh worked in the Pentagon for four years, worked lived in Turkey uh for for six years total off and on, was the naval attache in Turkey, and then uh you know worked in uh Germany at the end of my career as a uh working on the Ukraine uh challenges just prior to the war. And so what got you back to then uh the Vaughn? Well, I was I was uh I'd been in the Navy for about 25 years, my and my kids had gotten bigger and uh and were coming back here to go to school. They've been coming back here for summers their whole lives, so this was kind of home for them. And uh, you know, I felt really fortunate to be able to come back to such a beautiful part of the world after retiring and uh try to figure out how to make life work.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

And so for the folks that are not familiar with it, and I was just out there the other day for the first time, what is uh Hickory Nutgap Farm all about?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, so we we have uh you know Hickory Nutgap Farm has been around for a long time, but uh in in the late 90s, I guess my brother graduated from school and he uh and his wife uh sort of transformed the farm into a uh primarily meat operation. So we we grow uh you know, have cows, pigs, turkeys, and chickens primarily, but have tried a little bit of everything on the farm side. And then my mother, yeah, ever since I was a little kid, has been running uh uh a horse camp with her sister and and they they did they did a camp for you know 50 years, um, and and she she maintained that horse operation all the way through. And when I retired, we decided to turn it into a nonprofit and really try to focus in on how do we how do we help folks that have not always had the opportunity to get out and run around on a farm like we did and get them out uh both riding horses and also coming out for summer camp and doing pottery and really just having that outdoor experience of getting dirty away from your phones and and having a good time and uh you know being really tired by the end of the day. So that's that's what we focused on.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

And that's what I saw, I guess, the other day for the first time, and it kind of blew me away. You know, it's just such a cool facility. It's um so it's a farm, but it's mostly then now that part was mostly a camp then.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah, so we have you know really two operations that we have the farm side, which which does the the meets and has a farm store and is a great place to visit, but then we also have Project H and G, which is the nonprofit wing, and it it is pro focused primarily on horses and on, you know, most of the year horse lessons. We have uh do some agricultural education and have some Saturday programs. We have uh some some veterans programs. Uh as somebody who's a veteran, you know, we try to get some veterans out to ride, uh, and then we do a little bit of equine therapy and then run the camp in the summer. And the camp has been a long-term success. And, you know, we for six weeks, it's just a day camp. We we bring kids in at nine in the morning and and run them around on horses and doing pottery and doing art and doing uh, you know, theater and doing uh games, and and they just generally have a great time running around on the farm for for uh a full day and then and then come back, you know, every day for a week.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

And that's the thing I think that blew me away now. I remember uh a couple weeks ago I did a show on the uh the equine therapy, you know, and I had never heard of that before. But what's that all about then?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, it's not something that we have traditionally done over the long haul, but we're trying to figure it out. It is the kind of this, you know, I think there is something about humans and horses and the fact that we evolved over many centuries together. And so there is a real special bond between humans and horses. And, you know, what equine therapy does, it's not generally riding horses around. It's generally trying to really form a bond with a, with a, with an animal and and try to communicate all those nonverbal cues. And what that does is it helps folks who are sort of unable to build solid human relationships, uh, to to practice the skills that are required on a horse who is generally more understanding.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I'll give a shout out. Name Scaveny, you would know it to the woman involved in that now.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, so we have a great lady named Amy Alamana, right, who is uh who is is is is working to build that program up. Um uh and she is working with our team, and we have a great team at Hickory Nut Gap. We've got uh you know Emma Claire Hoffman, who's our primary instructor. We've got Addy Lalumandier, who uh is our operations specialist as well as teaching lessons, and then uh a new team member, uh Eric, who is uh teaching lessons and and is gonna be kind of investigating how we build this equine therapy program.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Okay, so that's just one component of what you do. So people can check into for this if you want to research, it's kind of a cool thing. But you also mentioned the camp then. So the camp is coming up this summer. Every summer you run the camps?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yep, we run this camp every summer. It's generally the last two weeks of June and all of July in four weeks, at the first four weeks of July. Um, so we do six weeks of camp, and uh, you know, each week is separate. So, you know, you can sign up for one or you can sign up for all six. And uh and that is is really our our big summer program. And really what you know that that's that's the the the program that has driven so many people to be connected to the farm and and to the camp and horses in general.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

So folks want to get information, we'll take each of these many things you folks are doing, just about the camp itself. What's the best bet?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, the best bet um for the camp and really for all of it is to go to our website, which is projecthng.org. So uh P-R-O-J-E-C-T-H-N-G dot or G. And you know, we have all the information there. You can sign up, you can email if you have questions, you can certainly call the call the number there and and uh and and you'll get some answers to to all your questions about how that works. But the camp is is starting to fill up, but we certainly have still have spots available every single week, and so we'd love to have people join us.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

So it's kind of cool. So they can go just one week or they go for six if they want.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

They can go as many, yeah, as many, many as they want.

unknown 9:46

All right.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

So uh go from there then. So the nonprofit aspect, uh, what does that do and how does that tie into it?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, so the nonprofit really is is the thing that the other thing that we do over the summer is we bring in scholarship kids for the summer camp, and then we do scholarships as well for riding lessons for folks that really, you know, horses are a really expensive thing to uh to own and operate. And so most people just don't have access these days because you need quite a bit of land and you need quite a bit of money in order to access horses. And so we work with Big Brothers, Big Sisters, we work with Buncombe County uh Department of Social Services, and we work with the uh Caring for Children, another uh organization that helps out a lot with um you know with foster kids primarily. And we do uh 10 scholarships a week to the camp. So we bring in kids from from these organizations and then also have an application uh period where folks can apply to attend uh for free of charge so that we can, you know, give people this opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

And that's all at the website, is that correct? All on the website, it is, yep. And so go from there then, so for the nonprofit, but people can also come in on their own and can they get at the website information on horseback lessons if they want to?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

No, we do horseback riding, you know. We don't do horseback riding lessons during the camp period. Okay. Um, so generally our horseback riding program starts in September. Kind of it kind of goes with the school year. So it starts in September and ends at the beginning of June when school comes to an end. So we do that uh all year long, even through the winter. Um, and we have uh, you know, so so you got to be a little bit hardy and ready to get out in the cold a little bit. But um if it's too terrible, we do we do cancel sometimes in in January and and and February when it gets miserable.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

And so even if people have never horseback gone on a horse, they can learn to horseback ride? We start from the scratch, from the beginning, absolutely. Well, something also uh I think it's a person I was talking to you about off the air. Um, they can also can they keep their horses at at your place?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

So we do have a boarding program primarily for folks that have kind of advanced through our um through our lesson program and have decided that they're they're ready to buy a horse and uh you know they don't have anywhere to keep it, but they can, you know, we do we do board uh about 10 horses at a time. So it's uh and very cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

And this person was telling me she also, I don't know if you promoted she leases her horse, or is that possible?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And we do we do that as well. Sometimes we we have horses that we lease out to folks so that they can kind of use them as they want, um, you know, for certain periods of time. And you know, generally those leases last for a fairly long period of time, but uh it really, you know, except during the summer. They can't lease during the summer because we got to use those horses for camp.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Well, it's such a cool option because she didn't know she wanted to own horses, she eventually wants to, but she wanted to try out the process and you offered her the opportunity. What a great way to do this.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, well, it it you know, we're trying to provide as much access as we can. And it it's you know, I think you know, a hundred years ago, uh pretty much all all people had regular interaction with horses, but these days it's it's pretty unusual and and generally takes a lot of resources.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Now, since we're mentioning, uh we'll do a shout out there. I think it's Ann Miller, is it? Yep. And she's a local person, and she was telling me about the place. She should told me of a project HNG, and she just loves it. But what a way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

And Anne just joined our board and is a really a great supporter, so we really appreciate all of her work.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

But what a great way for her to check this out without getting a horse itself. How many horses overall do you have?

SPEAKER_00 13:31

So we have, including boarders, we have uh, you know, just over 40. So I think there's 43 at the moment. That number kind of fluctuates around, and and uh, you know, sometimes we get a new one and sometimes we're we we lose one here or there. But um, yeah, we we have just over 40 at the moment, and you know, that's kind of the the top of the line. That's about as many as we can handle on our pastures and and with our operation.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

And we were so impressed just looking at and look at the the pasture, but how many acres does this encompass? Just this part.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah, I mean it it's always tricky. Yeah, the the land ownership and and operations here are a little bit mixed up, but you know, we have riding trails all over the farm, which is a 250-acre farm. Um, but the the you know, the horse operation operates now on about 25 acres, kind of that's where the horses are are regularly, that's where our rings are, our barn is, um, our pastures are. Um, but then we we actually just procured a another five-acre pasture just across the road. So um we're trying to expand a little bit and make sure that we have enough pasture land for all the horses.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Very cool. Now, if you would talk about the other aspect. So you have this aspect, the farm, uh, the horses and the kids in the camps, and you have another side of the business is raising the the the the uh cattle and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, so we we also have, you know, we have the and and that is is, you know, my brother runs that operation primarily, um, but he is uh, you know, we we have, you know, here on the farm, we have about, you know, uh any depending on the timing, anywhere between 75 and 100 cows that we we do by uh you know, we use rotational grazing, so regenerative methods of raising animals. We don't feed them grain to finish them, we finish them on grass, which is a much healthier way to do it. Um we do pasture-raised pork as well. So, you know, I'm looking out my off my porch here, and we have you know pigs right off here in the in the uh in the little uh up here in the woods, and we you know we move the pigs around as well. So um we're trying to take care of the land at the same as at the same time as we're uh taking care of the animals. And then uh we have turkeys that we do two big batches of turkeys every year and sell them at Thanksgiving, and then um have uh you know chickens and eggs as well. So we have two kinds of chickens, one you know, set of what we call broilers, and then also uh layers, and the layers uh we have year-round and and they lay eggs year round, and then the broilers we raise kind of from April through November.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

In terms of uh the uh turkeys, I always wonder, um Eric, because we have near us, you see turkeys just wandering about, you know, and and um I wonder how they like survive or they um Yeah, there's a lot of wild turkeys here, a lot more than there used to be.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I think we have a lot less hunting than we used to in Fairview um than when I was growing up. There's there, you know, I saw I saw one this morning actually, walking across the road. Um, you know, there's there's a you know, we we live in a in a pretty abundant environment here with lots of you know hickory nuts uh and and all kinds of other insects and and and things for for turkeys to eat. It's really a a great environment for turkeys as well as good places to hide and and operate. So um I think the turkeys do pretty well in in our environment.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

But I was just amazed. Like I said, a buddy of mine, they have like 10 turkeys just in his his where he lives, and they're just there all the time. I can't believe that they survive that existence. But talking back to you, so you have the farming side, and so a lot of that stuff is available for sale, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, so we have a farm store here on the farm, and uh, and and so we have you know pretty much at all and a and a butcher shop. So we've got butchers that will, you know, cut meat to order as well as uh you know make great bolognes and make great salamis and sausages that are really fun. And you know, it's it's always a great idea to go in there and talk to Brian Birmingham and his butchery team and find out exactly what they're what they're working on that day, and you can really watch them, watch them do it. And they, you know, they'll cut things to order, they'll they'll do anything that you really can do within reason. And you know, the the other part of that business is Jamie also has a big um uh a big bunch of partner farmers who who raise animals in this same sustainable regenerative way. And, you know, so there's a there's a meats company as well that that brings all that meat together. And uh we operate out of a warehouse in Flat Rock, and they um, you know, so we we pretty much have everything available all the time. It's not not like a small mountain farm that you only have uh certain things sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

And so where is that located exactly?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So the warehouse is in Flat Rock, but we have partners sort of all around the Southeast that raise mostly cows, but pigs as well, um, cows and pigs all over the all over the southeast.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

But in terms of people coming in to to buy stuff, is there at all?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

That is at right on Sugar Hollow Sugar Hollow Road, um, you know, 57 Sugar Hollow Road, which is uh right here at the bottom of the farm.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

And if people want to find out information about that, best bet again to go to the website.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, well, they can go to the with the other website for that business is hickorynutgap.com.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Right. And so it's it's all available uh there. Is any of this uh available through mail order?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

You can you can absolutely mail order uh meat from from the store.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Okay. So the amazing thing about you, uh Eric, is aside from running this part of the farm with your brother, in your spare time you're also involved politically. And talk just a little bit about the whole family. In in terms of I had known and voted for your dad, you know, ever since I've been in this area. Um, was this always part of growing up to be involved politically?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah, I think we we certainly grew up in a political family, no doubt about it. Um, you know, my our grandfather, so my mother's father was uh, and her her mother and father, uh, you know, and her family really is the one that that owned this this property and and and grew up here and built this farm to start with. Um but when I was growing up, our grandfather Jamie Clark, who many people in the area still remember, was uh both served as on the school board and he served in the North Carolina House and the North Carolina Senate. And then uh off and on, he was the U.S. Congressman from here for uh through the 80s. He would win one and lose one and then win one and lose one. It was a close, close election.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

That's before my time. But anyway, so he was your grandfather.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

That was my grandfather. And then my my dad, you know, got elected in 2014 um to the North Carolina House, and he served for eight years. Um, and so yeah, the the the sort of ethos of service has been strong in our family. We we have been given a good Presbyterian heritage, I guess, on uh service to the rest of the community, and that really is what drives a lot of what we do.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

So, how'd you and your brother get involved in it then?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Well, we you know, I I retired from the Navy in 2021, came back home. My brother roped me into running the meat side of the farm, and I started the nonprofit, and uh and then I got asked to run. It's you know, the North Carolina legislature is a little bit of a difficult sell to get people to to go down there because it's uh the pay's not great, and the uh and and you got to drive four hours to Raleigh uh to get there, and you got to go, you know, once a week when you're in session. And so it's hard to find people to do it. But I uh, you know, fortunate to have a Navy pension and can kind of make it work. And so I went down, you know, started, I got elected for the first time in 2022 and started serving in 2023. So I'm in my second term in the North Carolina legislature.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And so are you up for re-election this coming year?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

I am up for re-election in 2024. We run every two years in the North Carolina General Assembly. Um, but I don't actually have an opponent in this election. So um I'm uh trying to figure out how to be useful in other ways.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Okay. So that's the kind that's the best kind of election to run for when you're yeah, it doesn't seem right, but uh it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Oh, is that a pleasure? So I I do I even get to vote for you or or no?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

You probably will get to vote for me. I'll still be on the ballot. Um I I think as long as I get one vote, I'm probably good.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Well no, I I was for Eger, uh just an aside. I didn't know you'd Think I only met him a couple times, but remember I had some problem and I contacted his office and great, you know, helped me right away with it. So I was always impressed.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

So that that's the most rewarding thing about being in the General Assembly, is you really can help people, you know. The you you don't have a power to sort of do whatever you want in the legislature, but you can certainly get people to answer your phone calls and answer your emails and and solve problems for people as they come up.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

And the other side of the the coin, even though it's not you, so your brother, as you're in office, your brother's running off for office too. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah, my brother is running for Congress, and that's an exciting thing. He's uh, you know, he's a busy man at the moment, and it's a it's a tough district, but he's running a great campaign, and I'm really uh hopeful and confident that he can he can pull it off. And I think that would um send a real message and and really he's he's the right kind of person. He's a very middle-of-the-road guy who just wants to solve problems, and I think we need more of that uh across the political spectrum.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Not get political about it, but he certainly has my vote. You know, you have my vote too, but you're happy to appreciate it. Um let me ask him just a couple other questions. One having to do with uh where this happened, where it goes in the future. So when do we first of all get to see the book? Sorry of your life.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

We we all you know we'll see. One day, maybe I'll maybe I'll write one. I I haven't I haven't started on it yet, so it may be some time away. I but you know, I I I I love to write, and so maybe one day I'll I'll carve out the time to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Okay, because it'd be a great story, or the whole uh you're telling me on the air here, I'd love to see the whole Eger story, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Well, there there is one book that you can you can uh you you can find that uh explains the early days of this farm, which is called We Plow God's Fields. And it's about my great-grandfather who first came here in 1916 with his new wife and set up shop here. They moved here from Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

If folks want to find out more information about uh Eric Agar, either about your political career or other stuff you do, is there a separate kind of website?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

You can certainly go to my political website, which I sometimes forget, but it's uh Eric Ager the number four NC. So Ericager 4NC, but the the four is a number um and and dot com. And so that that is an easy place to kind of see the basics and get in touch with me that way as well. Or you can or you can always write me at my legislative address, um, which is uh eric.ager at nc.gov.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Okay. And one last time, if people want to get information about the farm or about for the kids, or even I assume you also take donations to people if they want to donate to the nonprofit.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah, we do, and that's uh that you can do all of that at projecthng.org.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Okay, well, exciting stuff, and just whatever you're doing, just continue it. I really appreciate all you do for the um all you do for folks in Western North Carolina and you and your family.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Well, thank you, Blaine, and thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Okay, my pleasure. Thanks. Speak to you soon. Be well.