SPEAKER_01 0:02

Good morning. This is the Blains World Podcast, where conversations are worth hearing and seeing. You can watch us each week on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn. You can also listen in on Spotify after the podcast. And for more information on past episodes, you can visit my website, which is behind me, Blainsworld.net. I'm your host, Blaine Greenfield, coming to you in my Zoom studio in lovely downtown Fairview, North Carolina. Each week we share positive news and information about people and organizations in both Western North Carolina and throughout the country. And toward that end, it's my pleasure to introduce Michelle Dere. Okay, close enough, thank you. Who's a speaker, storyteller, and songwriter for being my guest today? Michelle, you can feel free to wave to all your fans and friends watching you on YouTube and Facebook. That's Michelle. And as you mentioned, Michelle D-Ray, hopefully that's close enough. I spent 30 plus years at the intersection of story, strategy, and stage as a keynote speaker, messaging strategist, advertising writer, live events producer, and recording artist. And so Michelle, the first question I always ask when I meet somebody on board for the first time is um, as a kid, you grew up where?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

I grew up in Montreal.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Okay. As a kid growing up in Montreal, did you always know you wanted to be a storyteller?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Uh no. No, actually, but I I I I looked at some of the earliest things that I've written for myself, and and I I was constantly reminded that I always wanted to be an inventor. And so storytelling is all about inventing. But the way I use storytelling is not is partly to invent something new, but partly to uncover the truth of what is.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And so inventing stuff, did you ever invent something as well? Uh uh not other than a story.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Uh I invented lots of trouble for my parents.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Okay. And you're always coming up with these stories. Do you remember the very first story you ever came up with?

SPEAKER_00 2:05

No, but uh honestly, I I I only got into consciously, I only got into storytelling in my professional years when I was an advertising writer. So we're I'm going back like the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. Uh and it wasn't until the early 2000s that I that I became a true student of storytelling. And and and earlier, I'll tell you why. I mean, briefly, um I have uh a chemistry degree from University of Waterloo. Uh my uh my lab reports were my lab results were never really all that great, so I had to invent good stories to explain them away. And and there's a more than a grain of truth to that. Uh and and then I went and I got my MBA, and I've always had this dichotomy about left brain, right brain, rational, creative, etc., logical, lateral thinking, and uh creative uh thinking all over the place. And uh I decided that uh advertising was a good place to me for me. I joined on the account management side. I soon became a copywriter, advertising writer, marketing writer. I'd write, I wrote, I've written everything TV commercials, radio commercials, billboard ads, um long copy, short copy, and when the internet came along, internet copy and home pages and cell pages, you name it. I've I've I've I've written it. Um But I was always the one kind of like even though when I was a copywriter, the the job of liaising with the client lies with the account people. But I always found a way to weasel my way and say, no, I I've gotta interview the clients myself. And what I discovered was that um the more I drill down with my clients about what made them unique and you know the because everybody, you know, the first question is I'll just give you the value proposition. Well the value proposition is just a you know, it's just a bunch of marketing fluff that everybody expects and nobody believes, and it's too generic anyway. I was looking for for stuff that you could really dig or I could really dig my teeth into as a writer. Find out what really makes this click, this company, this product, this service, whatever it is. And uh and what I found out was that it was never a big thing because the big things are all taken, the big things are non-differentiating, right? Everybody's got the big things covered, but it's the little things that make a company or comp or product or service unique and interesting and different. It's the little things, and nobody thinks of digging in that deep. And when you go even deeper and you ask, well, this is how you do things, and maybe it's how you run a company, maybe it's how you manage your man, your your your human resources, maybe it's how you do logistics, uh, maybe it's how, but it's always a how. How you do something is what makes you different. But even you dig even deeper than this, I'm going back 30 years, right? Like I nobody I I know storytelling is like a buzzword these days, but but you know, I realized very early on, says so. If you dig a little deeper beyond the how we do things, and you get to why, but not the not the Simon Cynic why we do things. It's why we do how we do what we do.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Now let me ask you, do you still uh do any of the advertising stuff?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Uh in a different way, but I'll get I'll get to that. I'll get because I'm gonna, yeah. So the why we do, how we do, what we do, there's always a story. And so I realized that story was fundamental to a company's unique differentiation. And as an advertising writer, I quickly learned that story was the best way, the most convincing way to communicate that difference. So I could claim something, and your first response would be, yeah, show me. Or I could tell you a story about it, not tell you what it's about, but I could tell you the story, and you'll be thinking, Oh wow, yeah, yeah, you know what, that's my problem. Too. I I always wondered about that. Yeah, hey, maybe I should try that. I've never seen any other product, service, or whatever that does it this way. This is cool. Story, it gets past the the the Bayesian wall of of logic that we've built up in our minds that form our beliefs about the world. Story is so I started getting into story in the early, early, early 2000s.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

The other advantage, also, Michelle, listening to you, is that it's certainly a lot more interesting to hear somebody's story than just a factual basis of what they do or what the product does. You know.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

You know, st I mean now, listen, now I'm I'm gonna say things that other people say, but uh we're going back to the late 1990s, early 2000s. Nobody was talking about storytelling. Um but I I realize that stories stories are how human beings have communicated, how how influenced, uh, changed people's beliefs, affected change. Anthropologists now believe that story, the the the very act of storytelling is what has allowed us to be at the one of the things that has allowed us to be at the top of the food chain. It's crucial to our survival as a species uh because we communicate so much uh through story and we remember it, and evolutionary wise, evolution-wise, I'm a professional speaker, I'll later. Uh it's evolution has has realized that this is a pretty important piece. So they reward us for sharing and listening to stories by giving us a hit of dopamine, by having our brains releasing releasing oxytocin, you know, oxytocin, the feel-good drug, the hug drug, the love drug, you know, what bonds mothers and and babies. Uh when we shake hands, when we hug, when we kiss, it's uh anything. We release oxytocin, and also when we listen to and share stories. That's how fundamental it is to the human experience. And we've we've ignored it for you know hundreds of years. Uh anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

So fast forward if you would, Michelle, then, from the fact that you were in your advertising background, to all of a sudden then you start getting more into storytelling as opposed to advertising. What was the transition like, or how'd you get into quote storytelling as opposed to doing advertising?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

So I never really got out of storytelling of advertising, even though I still do it in ways uh related to it, um, because I now I get hired to help companies uncover or dig down to their core what I call their essential message, their core message. That's a very specialized form of advertising. So I don't write I don't write posters anymore and TV commercials, but uh I'll write I'll write their core manifesto through story. So that's that's about as good as a complete merge between storytelling and advertising. And then that dictates everything uh the the the brand personality, the unique differentiation of the company, of the product or service, whatever it is. So and I started doing that in in the early 2000s. Then I started get you know, because also because I'm an entrepreneur as well, you know, we were one of the first uh marketing companies to embrace the World Wide Web. We were building websites, I was building websites uh in the early 1990s, uh pretty incredibly. And uh and because of that, I started to get invited to uh speak at conferences. And apparently I was pretty good at it. People liked me, I get it, I got exc invited back, and and when I asked them, you know, why do you why do you like what I do, what I talk about, and they say it's because you do you share a lot of stories through your speaking. I said, Oh, okay, I didn't know that, I didn't realize that. Uh and and but makes sense, right? So then I started really using storytelling, crafting stories, understanding what I did to craft a story to make it more impactful, more streamlined, and all this stuff. And then I started teaching storytelling, and then I realized and then um in 2012 I I thought, you know, as a professional speaker, I I breathe pretty rarefied air. I go to conferences around the world, I've spoken in, you know, 12 different countries. Uh, I hear other phenomenal speakers, I listen to their stories, but most people don't have that experience. So I decided to launch something called Mo Mondays, and Mo Mondays was kind of think of it as the democratization of stories, storytelling. I invited both professional speakers and non-professional speakers to share their story on stage and realize just how powerful an experience it is both for the listener and the speaker. And uh did that for a number of years. I've recently relaunched it. We could talk about that later in a totally different way or marginal or somewhat different way. Uh but what I realized in that phase of, and and it was never instead of, I always added to whatever I was doing, uh, which is why it's so hard for me to put a bio, concise bio together. But uh what I realized was that storytelling, authentic storytelling and and again I'm gonna say this now I I'm not the only one who does this, but back then in 2012, you know, the closest thing was the moth in the US. We didn't even have the moth in Canada. And people would say, Oh, you like the moth, and I said, What's that? Uh but but yeah, it was a similar idea. What I found was that the process of crafting and developing your own s story, which is kind of like think of it as your origin story, just like superheroes have an origin story, is about the most therapeutic thing you could do for yourself. You could think you know your story, but it's not until you craft it and share it a hundred times that you really gain the benefit of understanding yourself, of making your sense of who you are in the context of the world uh through your story.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Now let me go out on a limb here, but I'll take a guess and say that in terms of your storytelling, sometimes you might bring in a guitar or two. Is that kind of at all involved in it?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, yeah, that happened. Now, that that again that came later. And uh and and and I just started because of all this, all of what I've been exposed to through Mo Mondays and my own personal life, and I said I was just so inspired and basically taught myself to play guitar uh late in life, and now I have two albums on Spotify, Apple, and all the you know platforms, and um and not surprisingly, a lot of the songs are story songs.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Okay, so when you speak, you oftentimes bring in a guitar with you and and sing a guitar?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Sometimes, sometimes, if it's appropriate, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

So, how many guitars do you have?

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Oh uh, do you want to know the real number or the number that I tell my wife?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

What uh between the two, what what's the number?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

I don't know. I don't have that many. I'm trying I in fact I think I want to sell three of them because I want to buy a really expensive one. Uh but I've got around 10 or 12.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Michelle, your story I'm laughing. This reminds me of of an artist I recently spoke to who's a photographer, and he had the same comment about how many cameras does he have, you know, and it's interesting, he's a fascinating guy. He's a dentist and he practices dentistry, so he can buy go buy cameras, you know. So it I'm not surprised to have a bunch of um guitars behind you, but that's uh how he got into it.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

I have some on this side and I have some on the other side of the camera too.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Well, it's a great collection, and what's so cool about it, you just learn this by yourself?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

No, well, I I I I studied with some masters.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

You know, or a report of storytelling, um, I guess another way you can learn it is on YouTube or watching people as well. I guess people can learn storytelling. That's one way people can learn, or can they learn storytelling by watching a a YouTube video?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, you can. Uh yeah, you sure can. And and there are some good courses in on storytelling, but uh but and it's a very important but um at some point uh you know something like Hero's Journey comes up. Everybody teaches Heroes Journey. If you've got, you know, one and a half to two hours and a multi-million budget to do, you know, matching animation. Uh uh but unless you're doing it for that, it's not exactly all that appropriate. So knowing what style of storytelling, how to strip it down to its basics, so that I could tell a story in three, four minutes, I would never say, and now, Vlaine, I am going to share a story. But it's part of the conversation. It's it just slips out, it's part of the conversation. You don't even realize I'm telling you a story, uh, it just happens to fit. And uh and and and you but it but it has some of the core structure, it beginning, middle, end, you know, some some uh challenge that is thrown at me or the or the or the main character in the story and how they get out of it. That's that's the essence of a story.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

I'm so sorry I missed you. You recently were in Asheville, right? I was, yes. And what's interesting about Asheville, it's become kind of a storytelling, I want to say Capital, but it's very, very popular in Asheville. They have one facility, I don't know if you're familiar with StoryPaller, and uh it's just a facility for people to tell stories. When you were in Asheville, did you do any storytelling?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I did not because we were all uh tied up with uh with uh family and going to guitar stores.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Okay. But anyway, so it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

But I know that when we're driving down, I can't remember which highway it is, as we're driving from north down, uh I and it's north of Asheville, I guess around 30, 40 minutes. There's there's uh we pass that past this tourist sign that says Storyville Theater or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Probably Johnson City, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, it could be.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

That's that's Surrey Capital, but sort of come down from Tennessee to Asheville, and a lot of places now teach it, tell stories, become very, very popular in this area, just with the last 10 years, maybe or something.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Amazing. Yeah, I'd love to do a Mo Mondays there. Uh probably big then now shout out to Edie Weinstein because she was the one who brought who who she spoke at uh uh Moe Mondays Philadelphia back in 2012. She was really helpful and instrumental in helping us bring Moe Mondays back to Philadelphia in 2025.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

She was helpful in connecting you and I together, you and you and me together, and so yeah, so she probably knows somebody else in in Asheville who it seems like she knows people everywhere, but yeah, let's keep that in mind because if and when you ever come down to Asheville again, I'd love to help you know you put on a similar event.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Well, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll double that uh because that relies on me setting up the event. But I'll tell you what, if you if you help set up the event, I'm coming down.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

We'll we'll talk about it, or I'll get up to Toronto, which isn't likely. But talk then a little bit, Michelle. So you've gotten to this whole storytelling thing. Where's it going to go? In other words, what what's your eventual goal? Uh you mentioned, let's talk a little bit, you started a uh recent, you started a substack. Is that correct? Yep. What's it to share your stories or what's the purpose of that?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

So uh I wanted to uh let me back up a little bit because or else it won't make any sense. But you know, I've every Sunday night Except the odd one, uh I sit down at my computer and I think about the week and I just it I call this my glim uh you know glimmers and gratitudes writing. It's kind of like a journal. It's thinking about over the past week, thinking, uh, you know, can I name three things that was either a glimmer or a gratitude? Gratitude, great, you know, just great practicing, you know, gratefulness, uh or a glimmer of something, a beautiful sunrise, uh uh, a flower or a scent, so anything that just made me feel, oh man, this is this is this is reminds me of how wonderful it is to be human, kind of thing. And I and and I would write these things, most of the time I'd get three, sometimes I'd run off at the mouth and get five or ten or whatever. Um some days I'd sit down and I'd struggle to get one, and then after the first one, I'd have eight more. Uh, but then the next step is really okay, and I and I use AI to help me brainstorm the pattern between them all. Like what what links all of these things together, and and how do I feel about them? And then I would challenge myself to come up with the wisdom of the week. And I I and then I I was doing this for several months and I thought, you know, there's a story here. I maybe it should be a newsletter. Maybe it should be something that I publish. But I don't want it to be a marketing piece. I don't want it it's not to sell anybody. It's it's just to help people pause the way I do and draw some wisdom out of our lives together. And uh and so I started doing that a couple of months ago. I put out three issues already on Substack and um yeah, Substack, and I don't even know what my what my URL on Substack is. So let me find that here. I should know that off the top of my head. That shows you how here, hang on. Substack. And it's gonna yeah, well, substack.com at Michelle Naray, all one word. M-I-C-H-E-L N-E-R-A-Y.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Substack. What's cool about that, Michelle, and I like what you did, is one of the stupid things I think Instagram does is people have other names. You know, she can't find anybody on Instagram if they don't use their own name. So they substack, I can find your you, and that's where you're uh available. And so you're now doing what with Substack? You're publishing something weekly, monthly. How often do you publish it?

SPEAKER_00 23:33

The original plan was to publish it once every two weeks. Uh I'm averaging once every three weeks.

unknown 23:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

And what are you writing there?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

That on Substack? Yeah. I'm literally publishing my Glimmers and Gratitudes uh writing of the of you know, every three weeks I say, well, this one is particularly good, and it's worth crafting and working on beyond the draft stage.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

By the way, I love the title too. Is that is that what you call it? What do you call it?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Glimmer Glimmers and Gratitudes.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

I I love it. Um I was going to say uh love wisdom of the week, but glimmers and gratitudes has kind of a nice ring to it as opposed to um you know wisdom of the week. So glimmers, I'm putting this down, glimmers and gratitudes. And so in terms of writing it, what's your style? Are you kind of a guy you get up at seven o'clock in the morning and write for three hours, or what's your writing process?

SPEAKER_00 24:35

What time?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Go ahead. How do you write? I mean, what's your process?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Uh my process is so it's funny, people ask me my process for songwriting too, and and it's not it's almost the opposite of this. Uh, so I'll I'll share both of them with you. But uh but but this is uh I will start writing literally listing my glimmers and gratitudes of the week. And then I'll start writing them in into my you know my word processor and or a Google Doc, and um and and then I'll look at them and I'll say, well, what kind of links all of these things together? And the more I write about that, the more a fundamental truth emerges from it, and then I I will restart writing it, but with that in mind. You know, I can't and in fact, I think this is gonna be my next newsletter. It says we don't write to share the truth. We write to discover it. And I truly believe it's only through writing that we force ourselves to make connections about what we're writing that it's just like you know, when you write a a song, every songwriter knows this, you know, the song you sit down to write is rarely the song you wrote. It changes because at through the act of writing you deepen your understanding of what you're writing about and you clarify. And you clarify because you strip away all that garbage that that just uh fluff and words and extra words, and you know, if if anybody's who ever had struggled writing a newsletter, um nine times out of ten, it's because they're trying to squeeze too many ideas into one piece.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

You'll you'll say you'll be in my next uh blog, and and uh it's funny you said that because that's one of the problems I have. You know, I have so many ideas I want to put into it, and you'll you'll take a look at it. But by the way, as I told you off the air, I think this is a great book for you. You know, you glimmer great title, Glimmous and Gravitudes, and you put all these together in just one final compilation, that'll be your your next book down the road.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, we'll see. I mean, at averaging one every three weeks, maybe I'll have enough after two years. But you asked me about 7 a.m. and and and I usually start writing this at around 9.30 or 10 in the evening on a Sunday, and once I'm in it, I cannot stop. So it's not it's not unusual for me to finish at 1 or 2 in the morning, and and I and I just keep going.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

And I was interested in what you just said too about songwriting. So, how is that different than the writing process?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

So, songwriting is different because uh uh listen, there are as many different styles of songwriting as there are songwriters. So because my background is as an advertising writer, I tend to think in terms of headlines and slogans and taglines. So very often I'll have an idea of something that I'm going through, uh and I'll attach, I'll turn it into a slogan. Or or in songwriting terms, I'll turn it into the hook. So a lot of songwriters, the hook is the last thing that they they struggle with. Uh for me, it's the first thing that I'll do. I I almost can't write a song unless I've got the hook first. The hook is is the repeatable phrase, it's the chorus, it's a core idea. It may, it may usually in the chorus, but it but it may be the bridge. Uh it's the key phrase that people will remember the song by. Maybe it's the opening line of the song that gets repeated again, again, or it's the last line of every verse. There are different styles of doing that. Uh, but the hook is usually what comes to me first because that's a because that's who I am. But other songwriters will write a melody and then try to fit words to it. And to me, I said, How do you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

So, how many songs have you written?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Oh, I, you know, uh if you include the finished and unfinished ones, I mean they'd be in the in the in the hundreds, in the low hundreds.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Now I always wondered about the song, even in your your Substack piece, does that evolve over time? In other words, you write a song 10 years ago, and then has it changed 10 years later? Does that ever happen?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, you know, it's like and is writing ever finished? You know, this deciding when a writing, a piece of writing is finished is one of the toughest things, you know, it because it's never perfect. I listened to some of my old songs. I said, Oh, yeah. I I I wish I you know emphasized the second syllable on that word, you know, uh instead of the third syllable, you know. Or I f now I I hear when I when I perform things live, I say, oh, you know, I just did it differently than we did it on the record, and I like it better, and who knows, maybe 10 years I'll go back. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

So if people want to listen to your music, how do they do that?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Oh, very very easy. Um we live in a world where where you know free music is ubiquitous, so uh any platform, uh any streaming platform you can listen to, and and it's my name, Michelle Naray, uh, or you go to my website, uh, I'm on Bandcamp where where people could purchase uh downloadable songs, and uh or they could come uh invite me to do a house concert at their house, which somebody just did last week. Uh and or they could um come come to Toronto where I where I gig pretty pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Any of your stuff on YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Oh yeah, I'm on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Okay, so we'll look for you there too. Michelle, one of the interesting things I'm finding out about you is that you seem to do about 27 different things, you know. Um that's what always been my life. But out of all the different things you do, you have a favorite.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Uh I don't have a favorite, but I can tell you that the 27 things I do on the surface may feel very different, but they all come from a very, very core part of me, and that is it always comes down to some essential truth. How I express it could be in a newsletter, could be in a song, could be in a in a keynote speech, could be in a workshop, it could be coaching someone else in the art and craft of storytelling for the purpose of helping them arrive at their core message.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

I do a lot of different things all under the umbrella. You know, because it used it used to be hard, Michelle, trying to explain what I do, you know, I'm psychology professor, I did this, I did that, but it was confusing, so you just lump in under Michelle Niray, um, and it's all all there. Uh, what do you see yourself in terms of if I met you five years down from the down the road from here? Is there any great thing you see yourself wanting to do five years from now?

SPEAKER_00 32:55

I think about that a lot. And there's always one more thing I want to do. Uh Did you hear the dogs?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

That's what my you'll hear mine as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

We we we live in a real house, a real house. Um I don't know. I don't know. I try not to think I it I I think about it a lot and I try not to think about it. Because you know, I'll uh my best it's just amazing what happens when you just do stuff. Uh it's funny you say that. I just I this just happens to be on my on my desk. It's a story that I wrote I'd say ten years ago. And and what you're asking me is this, you know, realizing all the best things I've ever done in my life, I've done them just because I wanted to. No other reason than that. Uh first day I I was running out for my very first Mon Mo Mondays in 2012, and I was all stressed about and I was late, of course. And my wife says, Well, why are you even doing that? Like, what good is it gonna bring? Uh like you know, is it gonna make us money? Is it gonna, you know, whatever? And and like, is it and I and I looked at her and I said, I don't know. I don't know why I'm doing this. And yet, if I hadn't done Mo Mondays, I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have established myself as a expert in storytelling. I wouldn't have the credibility of the brand, the brand, the brand. We were in 16 cities, well actually more, but 16 that I could remember, 16 cities across North America. Uh it from a branding perspective, I mean, it was like a total success. Uh, how many people were involved in it um and subscribed to it? Um, it wouldn't have launched my speaking career as a storyteller or my coaching business as a storyteller and a speaking coach.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Uh I uh The reason I asked that question, I find your your answer fascinating, because I've always sort of done that as well. That you know, years ago the big thing was goals, not goal setting, you know, but you had to put down in writing what do you want to accomplish in life. I never was big into that because I kind of just wanted to do things as they happen, sort of sounds like you, and they just lead to other things without having a specific goal, you know. Um, and so it's just kind of a fun way to live my my life that way.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah, and it's it's a satisfying way. The trick is to be able to identify when you're onto something. Like I'm not gonna do it before I you know, you could you could because you could be keep uh in fact, people have accused me, I say, Michelle, you do too many things. You know, and I say, yes, and but you know, if you if you're able to take stock once in a while, periodically, and you say, you know, this gives me joy, fulfills a passion, solves a problem in the world, and may have an opportunity to grow beyond just this little thing that I did. Maybe I put a little bit more emphasis on that.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

And one of the keys, as you're saying it, it's kind of what I try to do, is I have to enjoy doing it, having fun doing it. Because if not, that's when I get out, you know, I I do something else. Michelle, let me ask you this. If folks want to track you down or find out more information about you, what's the best bet?

SPEAKER_00 37:19

I've got three websites they could take a look at, depending on what they want. Uh if they're interested in my music, you go to Michelnaray.music. Yes, there is a domain called Music, so Michelnaray.music. If they're interested in my the professional side, which is my uh professional speaking, coaching, training in primarily in storytelling and core message development, you go to michellenaray.com. And uh we've talked uh a fair bit about uh uh Mo Mondays, and if people are saying, oh, I'm I'm I want to help bring Mo Mondays to Asheville or wherever you are in the world, go to MoMondays.com and Mo Mondays is mounddays.com.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

So I should ask you, and I'm sorry, we didn't touch base, but what got you to the Asheville area?

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Oh, family.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

And and and I I love Asheville. I think Asheville is such a cool little city. It and it I it's just so I vibe with it. It's just so aligned with the energy. My energy, you know, it's as you said, you could tell storytelling is there. It's a quirky city. You know, it's it's it's it's just a quirky, it's got a lot of character, and the people there have a lot of character, and I love that, and it's got mountains and it's got rivers, and it's got music, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

That's why you said that because that's one of the reasons we got here, is that my wife, some 20 years ago, punched in new age, holistic, and spiritual. That's what she was looking for. And at the time, Michelle, I wasn't into any of that stuff, you know, but she loved it, and within a month, I found that Ashville had everything I like, you know, so it's just a great area. Again, I'm sorry if we missed you, but you said you have family here. Where's your family?

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Yeah, we've got family. They live uh up on uh on the all on the mountains. Blue Ridge Trail, and yeah, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Well, next time you're in the area, hopefully we'll bump into each other for next time we make it. We'll make the point of it playing we'll make it some notice. Okay, likewise. Anyway, like thank you for being my guest on this edition of the Lanks World Podcast. I also like to thank my producer Kim Jones, and like I said, my hope is that we'll actually bump into each other in real time one of these days. Thanks, Michelle.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Take care.