You Can't Afford Me
You Can't Afford Me
Part 2 with Rob Long
What happens when business success collides with the demands of family life? Rob Long, the serial entrepreneur behind River City Roll, Bar West, and the Surf dating app, doesn't hold back in this refreshingly candid conversation about the real costs of building multiple successful ventures.
Rob shares the moment his heart broke when his four-year-old daughter said, "Daddy, I don't want you to go to practice" as he left to coach lacrosse – a passion project that rejuvenates him mentally but comes with personal sacrifice. This tension between professional drive and family connection becomes a throughline in our discussion, offering a window into the constant trade-offs entrepreneurs navigate daily.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Rob reveals how golf has become both his personal therapy and secret business weapon. "I've raised a lot of money on golf courses," he explains, describing how the sport creates rare opportunities for authentic connection in our hyper-connected yet increasingly isolated business world. His advice to young entrepreneurs? "Pick up golf – it's a cheat code." He shares stories of CEOs who wouldn't give him 30 minutes by phone but eagerly accepted invitations to play a round, giving him five uninterrupted hours of their time.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is Rob's intentional approach to social media and personal branding. Unlike many entrepreneurs who build personal platforms alongside their businesses, he maintains a deliberately low profile online. "The internet is a mean place," he reflects, sharing a telling story about how he once publicly invited online critics to meet him in person to discuss their concerns – and not a single person showed up.
Whether you're building a business, raising a family, or simply trying to find balance in a chaotic world, Rob's perspective offers valuable insight on defining success on your own terms and remembering what truly matters beyond the balance sheet.
www.themrpreneur.com
Hey guys, we're back with part two of our interview with Rob Long and we covered a lot of things in that first episode. Here in the second part we get a lot more personal on some things in terms of, like, work-life balance. We got on the topic of golf and for any golfers out there, you're really going to enjoy that part of the conversation. But he had a lot more gems to drop on us, so check out part two with Rob Long. More gems to drop on us, so check out part two with Rob Long. Welcome to the you Can't Afford Me podcast, where we skip the fluff and dive straight into the ground Real entrepreneurs, real struggles and the unfiltered journey behind success. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:And then you know, the next day it's like she's here. It it's so incredible. And then I'm like having a massive headache and I'm asking nurses for, like you know, can I get some Advil and a ginger ale? You're not the patient here. I'm like, no, oh gosh, I was like public enemy number one in there. I can tell you how you can work.
Speaker 1:You weren't in the right state of mind to done. Luckily, my wife is a very type a person super planner. Her mom is also a baby nurse as well too, so she's gotten some schooling along the way. That helps. She had a basket made full of chocolates, candies, drinks and all that stuff for the nurses, so nurses just kept coming by our room non-stop, so it was like anything we needed genius.
Speaker 1:They were like yo the anderson's got them reesey cubs like going there and see if they need anything was it was one of the best decisions Like I never would have thought of that.
Speaker 2:But like she looked it up, no, that's elite. I know I'm filing that one away if we have number three. My wife wants number three.
Speaker 1:No, I'm getting snipped man. Yeah, look, if I was, I want to book. I waited too me for the weekend of the masters. Yeah, so I can just lay in bed all weekend and just watch golf.
Speaker 2:But yep that, or this weekend for sweet 16, yeah that, yeah, I'm way behind on that, like that ain't gonna happen.
Speaker 1:There's a place.
Speaker 2:You could probably get in a discount I'm not sure you want that?
Speaker 1:no, I don't think I want the discount snip.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, back to the balance. I mean, I am lucky enough to get to be carpooled out in the morning to daycare um, so I know that I have that time every single day. Uh, I try my best to, like you said, make it home for bath and bedtime. Um, luckily with the bars, especially like they don't really start hopping until after the kids are asleep, so yeah, if I need to if I need to go back, it's, it's not too bad.
Speaker 2:Um, and then try to be involved. Um, you know, like I said, I coach freeman lacrosse, which does take me away from the kids a little bit at night, um, but that's like a super important thing to me for mental health. Um, being around high school athletes, like I'm passionate about it. Um, it's so refreshing to be around young minds that don't have a care in the world or not worry about payroll and taxes and all this. Um, so payroll, so important, like it's where I go get like rejuvenated. Um, but it is at a cost, right, like you know, balance work, like balance it's. It's like you said, it's kind of cliche, but every decision you make has a cost to it and you know it's. You got to kind of judge it on. Okay, you know, my four-year-old, my two-year-old this is the first year where lily has kind of noticed me leaving. Daddy, I don't want you to go to practice that's hard, dude.
Speaker 1:My daughter just started saying like every morning now, before I go to work, she's like daddy, I don't want you to leave. I'm well you're about to go to school anyway, but that's funny that it's right at that age.
Speaker 2:And it's like you know, we have an awesome team.
Speaker 2:This year A little plug for the Freeman Mavericks varsity lacrosse team. I think we're going to make a deep run. We've lost in the state championship two of the seven years I've coached. I think this team might have a chance to go all the way. So that makes it easy to hang it up. But it's every year like you start having these relationships with players and their families and you know them and you want to see them succeed and you want to see them get into college and you want to see them reach their goals and it's hard to walk away from. But it's also really hard to hear your little one say Daddy, I don't want you to go to practice on a Tuesday night, yeah. And so I think that you know when I can control. You know this discussion I have with my wife. A lot is I spread myself too thin habitually. I'm involved in a lot of things.
Speaker 2:I get a lot of my energy from being around other people and doing this and um, sometimes I overcommit and you know that cost is usually on my wife, which and she's a rock star for picking it up and massively successful on her own. She's a partner at hunting and she's an extremely talented um lawyer and the smartest person I know Um. But you know a lot of that comes at our kind of one-on-one time sometimes. So I'm learning that you know you got to. Those things are super important too because that's like your real rock right and all the other stuff doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:The success of your kind of family unit, whatever that may be traditional or not traditional, those are people that are with you through thick and thin, no matter what right. Traditional, those are the people that are with you through thick and thin, no matter what right, no matter how successful you are. Success can also breed a lot of relationships that aren't particularly healthy and, you know, can be kind of one-sided and you know I'm sometimes, you know, pretty easily sucked into that sort of stuff. And you know the ones that really matter, the ones that are with you when you're at rock bottom, not at the top. It's easy to have a lot of friends when you're super successful. Your family loves you for you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that's like one of the few places that that always holds true A thousand percent. You know your daddy, no matter whether you're a bum at work or not. Yeah, when you walk in the door, they don't care if you had a bad day. Good day that you made a million bucks, you lost a million bucks, and that's what's so refreshing. Yeah, right, it's like. Success is can be defined so many ways, um, and a lot of people you know, I think, unfortunately, like financial success is one of those ones. That's kind of like with social media. I could go off on these tangents for days, but part of me hates it because I'm terrified of it for my daughter. I'm sure you've had similar thoughts, but I know that the success of anything I've done has been so uplifted by social media and the power of it is incredible.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to work so hard that my daughter doesn't have to sell protein powder on Instagram one day, I know, or any of the stuff on there where it's like our kids are growing up too fast. Yes.
Speaker 2:And they're seeing financial success earlier and knowing what money is earlier. And you know, back when I was growing up, like you didn't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you didn't know. You had no idea how much your parents were making.
Speaker 2:You had no idea how much your parents were making like clue and you didn't know, and you just you know, even if you're in the projects, you thought you were rich because that was all that was around you everyone was, you know, playing flag football together or playing four square or whatever. It didn't matter. I didn't know what people's shoes are like.
Speaker 2:I didn't know, you know, I didn't know any of that stuff and I was better off for it and now it's like the minute you get a phone or the minute you get a tablet, you just the, you just see it so quick and it's, it's money, money, money. It's. It's like just nonstop of cars and shoes and clothes and bags and watches and stuff doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Um and that why, like I grew up a lot having kids and I've made a ton of mistakes. I'm by nowhere close to perfect and you know there were some years where I was not the best version of myself. I'll tell you that, you know, for as hard as having kids are the benefits of like knowing that there's someone that loves you, no matter what, is like super powerful. And you know, I think tons of people that have been working with me since you know, young, no family. Rob, to this version Now, I think, would say that I'm going to way better just cause like.
Speaker 2:your focus is sharper, there are people counting on you. The stakes are a little higher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a piece of shit back in the day.
Speaker 2:You have all the benefits of the comfort and the love and the knowing that Lily's going to say daddy and love me and jump on my arms, even if I just had a catastrophic day Yep, even if River City rolled a burn to the ground, she doesn't know, yeah, and she's just excited to see you. And old burn to the ground? She doesn't know, yeah, and she's just excited to see you. And like that uplifting thing is like so special, absolutely that, like you know, it's like I'm like plugging, having kids here a little bit, but it's like anything in that family unit, whatever is your dog or anything like like hold on to that that's special stuff and like, cherish it for what it is, use it for power, use it to, like you know, inspire you and and be happy because, and, if not, find those outlets that are like that, that care about you for like all not
Speaker 1:you're not your other stuff, yeah and I think too like currently I'm reading a book relentless it was the guy who was like the trainer for, like michael jordan kobe bryan. He's like the the fixer. The guy that you if dwayne wayne gets hurt, and he's getting. The fixer. The guy that you if Dwayne Wade gets hurt and he needs to get right mentally. This is the guy they call and he kind of-.
Speaker 2:Let me put that on my list.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's so good.
Speaker 2:I'm listening to the audio Audio book. Yeah, how many hours Do you know?
Speaker 1:I think it's like six hours, something like that. Damn, I got a about because you look at it like Michael Jordan to me is a goat. Anybody who's like LeBron's go like you don't know what you're talking about. Jordan's ago ain't nobody, anybody knocking somebody over the head with a brick to get some LeBron's on their feet like no, it's Jordan. But you see, like I'm gonna speak bluntly and this is my goat.
Speaker 1:Jordan was a shit father, yeah, but was not the best father, obviously, first marriage fell apart, all those sorts things but he was the greatest to ever do it and I don't think that you can achieve any level of success in one area or another without something else hurting, Like you can't be. I think Kobe maybe did it the best in terms of like being on the Mount Rushmore, of like basketball players, Like by all appearances to me like he had a great relationship with his daughters, great relationship with his wife.
Speaker 1:Um, but jordan couldn't he was so addicted to the game.
Speaker 2:It was just like it's all this, like yeah, I'll get to the kids later um, people have to realize like there's a sacrifice there's definitely a cost, and I think that you know the jordans of the world, no matter what field they're in, it's so so, so, so, so, so small.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's hard to define anything from looking at those folks. It's not that you can't take some things of their success and add it to your life to be good, but it's like you're never going to be.
Speaker 1:MJ.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you don't want to do what it took to get there and you might not want to, yeah, no, and a lot of people don't. And, um, you know, there's a million examples from sports and business of folks that have made sacrifices. I think you can find, though, if you look deep enough and you know maybe it's because they're the ones that aren't as public and maybe not as like celebrated some, but are are still uber, uber successful.
Speaker 2:There's people that have done it, you know, there is the balance, and I think that one thing that you know frustrates me is when people don't think there's enough time. Yeah, there's always time, man there's. There's always time to carve out stuff for something that is meaningful, Right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And, like you, gotta know, when the phone thing, like everything, is so connected we're all so connected now it's hard to unplug and you know, when you have the time, you just have to be super present right.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know I have this discussion with some friends now. It's like when you're in those times with your family unit or whatever it is that matters, like you've got to do your best to just put the phone away and unplug right. And my wife's really good at checking me on this and like it's frustrating sometimes, but I appreciate it. She has a really important job too. Obviously you know she's a partner at a big law firm, but when you're at dinner with your family, you don't have to respond to that text message you don't have to respond to that email in 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I don't know when it shifted Like responding within 24 hours used to be like you used to be the man for doing that, oh yeah. Now it's like people feel like they have to respond in two minutes.
Speaker 1:Nah you don't.
Speaker 2:Nah, it's like your kids won't think you're an absentee dad. If you're really putting in focused time with them every day, no matter what part, it is right. But if your time with your family is with your phone in your face the whole time and you're not locked in on what matters to them, then, yeah, you do look like that and you're not really setting a good example either. And you're not really setting a good example either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're probably only six, maybe seven people in this world where, if the text or phone call or something like that comes through, I'll drop everything what I'm doing and go handle it. But I tell my staff all the time because, like you know, especially when we first sign a client. I'm going to pick on realtors because they're just working around the clock nonstop and I'll get a text or email or somebody from the team.
Speaker 2:We get a text email from a realtor like 10 o'clock at night I'm like don't respond to that.
Speaker 1:I'm like number one you're setting the precedent that they have access to you whenever they want. And number two ain't nobody ever died because they didn't get a video within a certain amount of time, like we?
Speaker 1:are a marketing firm nobody's losing their life over this stuff so clock out, because I need you guys refreshed when you come back here tomorrow. I don't need you looking at even if it. If someone needs to be taken care of, I'll take care of it's on my shoulders. You guys relax, um, but yeah, a lot of people just don't understand that.
Speaker 2:I say that a lot too. The the ain't nobody die ever. Marketing video did a little differently, but it's like in, you know, when I was working on the Greater Scott Sedition Association board, when I was a president there the last three years it's, or any work or anything you're doing. It's important to realize, you know, unless you are truly like an ER doctor, like a brain surgeon yeah, it's there's not a life on the line here no.
Speaker 2:And I get it. No, and I get it. Everyone I think and I'm guilty of this sometimes too is thinks what they're doing is the most important thing in the world when it's not. And I think everyone would be better off if people just realized that. And you know, it was like almost like I don't want to talk about what I'm doing. I don't want to talk about what you're doing Because, like, that's more important to me than what I'm doing right now, cause I already know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and the people that want to like define themselves with their work, I've generally found are not the type of people I want to be around and it's I want to be defined as Rob the person, not Rob the surf, not Rob or she roll. It's like people that you know. I look forward to our relationship growing and getting to know you and having you to bar west for lunch and chop it up, because that's what's important. It's not. I love getting to talk here and talk about my experiences, but I want people to know that I'm jealous of the seat you sit in because you get to talk to people about what they're doing. It's cool and I think everyone would be better off if they cared a little bit less about what they did. That doesn't mean don't work hard. It going to be better off if they cared a little bit less about what they did. That doesn't mean don't work hard. It doesn't mean don't have drive, but don't define yourself with your job. Don't take yourself so seriously.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's like nothing is that serious. Yeah, no, right, it's like we're all lucky to be here. It can go away in a second. Yeah, you can get really bad news. We haven't really talked about the non-profit stuff I do. That's super important and it's like we started a foundation last year with my best friend, who is the coach of the Utah Jazz and whose father passed away from ALS, and one of my other closest friends in the world. His father also passed away from ALS. We always knew we wanted to do something for him, because you get a quick wake-up call when you get one of those calls and you realize all the other bullshit doesn't matter at all.
Speaker 2:you get a quick wake-up call when you get one of those calls right and you realize all the other bullshit doesn't matter at all. But it's like if people, if we could just get that reality check without that bad phone call, we'd all be better off right. It's like I think you start to appreciate the day-to-day when you get bad news like that and it shouldn't take that to get us that one.
Speaker 1:It shouldn't take that.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you get that across, and I get everyone's busy and it'll never happen, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Well, something's got to click at some point, because I look at you know, when I was younger it was like you used to play that game. If a dope car drove down the street, you're like, man, I'm going to drive that car one day, I want that convertible, whatever. And then when I finally got to the point where I could afford some of those things, it's like dude I don't give a shit like I wouldn't get my last vehicle that I just purchased got a vw tiguan.
Speaker 1:First car bought brand new because of the bubble that we were in during uh that where it was like actually cheaper to buy a brand new vehicle than it was crazy one and I was looking at audi. Originally I was like man, I'm balling. Now I'm at this level, this Q5.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need to be at this level. People need to see me and I started doing my research and I looked. That Audi that I was looking at was the exact same makeup as the Tiguan, and how idiotic would I have to be to pay an additional $30,000 to $40,000?.
Speaker 2:Especially Virginia with car tax.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to have that logo on the front. I was like miss me with that man. And one thing we don't realize I read this. I think it was in a book I read or some article I was reading one time. This is more to guys where we're so focused on being in that dope car, this, that or the other. I want to caution people Like next time you see, a dope car that you really like.
Speaker 1:you're like man, that's a dope car. What we often do in our minds is that you don't care who's driving the vehicle. In your mind, you're immediately taking that person out and imagining yourself sitting in that vehicle. So it's like we work so hard to do all these things to impress all these people that we don't even know and that once they do they're pulling us out of the equation.
Speaker 1:They're envisioning themselves in that Facts. So it's like why are you doing all this? So I've literally gotten to the point where the home is the only thing where I'm like. I'm like I got to have a really nice home because you spend so much time there. It's where you're raising your family, all these different sorts of things. I told my wife the next house I will have a golf simulator. She's been giving me shit on it, but I'm like you're a stay-at-home mom.
Speaker 2:I'm doing all this like you get the whole house. You got 90% of the home. I need this 10%. Every time I get a one of the Zyra Golf posts like a dope garage or basement set up, I screenshot it, send it to my wife and I get the eye rolling emoticon back most of the time.
Speaker 1:But gotta be the dream for sure, dude, as we wrap up, I do want to touch on golf One thing. So I'm a I'm a fairly new golfer. I've been golfing about three years now and I mean when I got the bug I got a bit hard. Man, like I'm falling asleep to Bob does sports on YouTube Like.
Speaker 1:Oh fat fat fee man, like, uh, like, working on my swing and like in golf galaxy and all the stores Anytime I get a shot. Um big thing that I've taken from golf Number one. Well, two things for me as an entrepreneur, I realized once I picked up the game of golf this is the only time I am 1000% disconnected. Now, every now, and then, like, a phone call may come through and I'm expecting something. I know I got to take a quick call on the course, but other than that.
Speaker 1:I'm not looking at like my wife will get upset with me. She's like I texted you an hour ago.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm on the golf course. I'm not looking at my phone, so I was like holy shit, this is what fresh air smells, like this is what it's like, like just to be outside and enjoy yourself.
Speaker 1:But the second thing I found- that to be so true.
Speaker 2:Where number one, it's just been a great opener Like.
Speaker 1:I was at a networking event a couple of weeks ago for March Madness and you could immediately generally spot another golfer. It's like man I see that pull over in the pole on a knee. It's like you golf fan. Or if they just straight up got Callaway or something on there, it's like an easy opener to start a conversation. What has the sport of golf done for you as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I got into golf late in life. I give my dad a hard time now. My dad is a great athlete and can play anything with a racket, but I can see. I like to picture now thinking back of the first time he played golf. He probably sucked at it. Oh yeah, a thousand percent and he doesn't really suck at a lot of things he does sports-wise and he probably was like I'm just not playing this stupid game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my whole life I never had golf clubs. My dad doesn't own golf clubs. Never has in his entire life which I think is bananas now.
Speaker 2:So I kind of got bit with the bug after college and really like tying back to your deals made on the golf course when I knew I had to get good at golf. And so it lead to the next thing. I think why golf is crazy is my first year in investment banking. I had a kid in my class who played college golf a scratch plus golfer and even as a first year, because he was so good at golf, he got to leave the office with clients because people are just unreasonable with good golfers. Yep, I don't know a scratcher better golfer that I know on earth that's not successful in something. And, like your downside scenario, if you're a scratcher, better golfer is is making $350,000 a year in sales.
Speaker 2:That's your downside because people are just insane about the game. They love being around people that are good at it and it opens up a ton of doors. I've seen a lot of people that have caddied college, high school golfers that have caddied at really nice golf clubs. They make good relationships with successful people and they want to take care of you. I have raised a lot of money on golf courses. I have worked. I have an addictive personality. The one thing about golf I think is so cool is it's something that you can practice and see meaningful results from something that you're working on and it's so easy to track, like the way just the handicap system is and and and challenging yourself. And you know, I went from a a 14 to a 10 to a 6 to an 8.
Speaker 2:I'm a 2 now and I want to be a scratch and I want to, and like each level gets so much harder. Like going from 14 to 10 you can do in a year. Yeah, going from 10 to 8 you can do another year. Then it's like you kind of hit a little plateau and you got to really work your ass off to get to the next one. And you know there's also something a little therapeutic about just hitting something, Dude you got to.
Speaker 2:You got to and I don't have enough time to tell you about my I'm 0-1. In my professional boxing career, I fought Golden Gloves in Charlotte. I did not win in my early 20s.
Speaker 1:Mike Tyson said everybody got to play until you get hit in the face.
Speaker 2:I got hit hard, I didn't go down but I did not win. But I got into boxing because of the therapeutic nature of hitting the bag and just the physical, the release of dopamine, all that. And golf it's there a little bit in a in a much like less impact way. You know I probably have all different types of CTE from lacrosse and boxing but you know, golf is one of those things where, because of, like you said, bob does sports and Nick he was from Richmond shout out to Stuby.
Speaker 2:FB and then what he's done is insane, stuby insane. He's the man um, we look forward to launching. Uh, have a day. His can cocktail at river city roll here in a couple weeks dude, okay news, breaking news.
Speaker 1:It's good man, it's good. I am dying, so have they like, placed it in virginia anywhere.
Speaker 2:It's not here yet is brown distributing is about to have it. I'm probably gonna get in trouble for saying this. I I don't know when this podcast goes live. Oh, I've got to talk to JR over there, man, he didn't tell me that was coming. Yeah, it's coming, dude. All right, so I'm going to let you know right now.
Speaker 1:I need that before it's released.
Speaker 2:I'll make sure I, but with that product specifically. But what I also think these content creators like you're seeing at these tournaments now, these creator classics golf, kind of like looking at Michael Jordan, looking at pro golfers compared to most people that are playing the game it's different. It's just not the same game. That doesn't mean you can't have as much fun and get as much out of out of the game as they we're probably having more fun than they are definitely and and, but you can get just as much out of the game, and why I think these golf create.
Speaker 2:Content creators become massively so popular. It's a little easier to connect with them and see them hitting bad shots. I almost wish on the pga Tour if there was an alt channel where you could watch the bad shots. Because if you read some books, golf broadcasting just by nature gets people. Their expectations are so jaded because they only show the good shots on TV, so they're pros that are missing right, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:It would almost be better for people's mental state if they showed the bad shots, because it's hard freaking game, oh yeah, and that's why I think it's so addicting, um there's some clips out there with jt dropping some f-bombs and like five putting give me more.
Speaker 1:He's a man of the people, man, no that can do that, I can do that, you know.
Speaker 2:It's like stop showing me roger mcroy hitting right down the middle.
Speaker 1:I cannot do that I never will do that.
Speaker 2:Yep, I think like not to knock the senior tour guys, but like why I love the Dominion Energy Charity Classic here in Richmond is that like the older guys, like their game is a little more relatable. Like oh okay, that guy is hitting it 290.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like I can do that and you know, you get to watch them play a course that I'm lucky enough to have played and it's like, oh cool, okay, I see this. It is a little more relatable.
Speaker 1:When you see DeChambeau knocking a .350 down the middle man.
Speaker 2:I only do that when I'm asleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Super Rob is never going to actually happen.
Speaker 2:But it's a game that, like I tell every young person I know now, Pick. Like I tell every young person I know now, Pick up the game of golf. I'm not saying and luckily the stigma of golf has changed a lot over the years- oh yeah.
Speaker 2:YouTube. Folks have helped a lot and like old school traditional golf, like I'm not that, I'm not a proponent of that, I don't like some of the stuffy part of the game. I'm sure you've got some Jordan golf stickers. Oh yeah, that's all I do. I've got a couple pairs and you know, you see what, like Stephen Malvin's doing with.
Speaker 1:Malvin.
Speaker 2:He's a Virginia boy. Bob Beach Eastside Golf that's right Eastside Golf. Like there's these brands and they're crushing it, oh yeah. And they're massively successful. Why? Because they're actually marketing and relating to the everyday golfer. Absolutely, you know, I'm not gonna wear jt's outfit ever right, like even tiger's nike, old nike, or even his new sunday red stuff. It's like that's not me, no, but I see some of this other stuff coming, I'm like, oh, I can mess with oh yeah, sunday swagger, some bad birdies like yeah and that's why they're doing so well and that's why you see, like I tip my hat to the PGA Tour for this creator classic that they're doing now.
Speaker 2:And they're having like oh wait, these people are speaking to the masses and the real golfer the real person Like thank you. I think it's a good note for any business, anything it's like. Be relatable, be authentic, be what you are. Don't be something that you think you're supposed to, even the 18-hole golf round model. I'm not a purist of golf because I got into it so late. Lucky, I've gotten good enough at the game where I probably want to play 18 holes for logging it and all that type of stuff but like you.
Speaker 2:Look at some of these places around the country now and things like the Cradle at Pinehurst and some of these short courses and some of these. Belmont here in Richmond is a perfect example. Love Belmont. 12 holes Yep, faster. You're not out there for six hours. Yep, like you still get to play awesome championship holes at Belmont. They have a short course you can play in 45 minutes. They have a great practice facility. They've got a sweet putting course you can do Like. These are the things where, like as time and the world moves faster, like there's still room for golf.
Speaker 1:And we need nighttime golf in Richmond. Please bring it.
Speaker 2:We need it, we need it, and it's like like I said, you don't have to play golf and play it well, you don't have to do six hours every day. Yeah, no, like I'm obsessed with just going to the range for 30 minutes, yep. And like, give me 30 minutes unplugged phone in the bag, you know, maybe some some music in my ears. And just yeah, because, as entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1:Like our minds, like while we've probably been sitting here talking a thought or two has slipped about what we probably have to do right after we walk out of this room. But when you are golfing, all you are focused on is, like, every motion of your body, how you're breathing am I looking at the right spot of the ball? Like, is my follow-through all the way?
Speaker 2:like you're thinking about all these different things, so you mentally cannot focus on anything else other than what's right in front of you and my favorite part about the game and what we're doing like this came super apparent with our launch event for the Will Hardy Foundation, where you had some of the best athletes on earth that play for the Jazz playing in our charity golf tournament and you take these superheroes of their sport and they suck at golf.
Speaker 1:They suck. Steph Curry is the only anomaly.
Speaker 2:There's a couple right Like Steph is definitely the most notable and there's a couple guys that can play. But, like you know and I'm not going to knock D-Wade here, but I am- D-Wade is like any time one that you're known by your nickname means you're the dude.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, like D-Wade is like everyone knows. D-wade Yep, like when you go from Dwayne Wade to D-Wade, you know you're the man. Ain't no confusion about who that is. I watched him top three drives in a row. Okay, and it's like you're one of the best athletes I've ever seen. Yep, I've looked up to and I can beat you at it.
Speaker 1:Golf is a relentless bitch. That mistress doesn't care who you are or where you're from and like, unless you're a pro golfer.
Speaker 2:I think the closest I've seen of like relating hockey guys are generally pretty freaking good at golf, which is annoying.
Speaker 1:Some baseball guys can like crush it off the team, but they suck at everything else.
Speaker 2:Hockey just is like makes more sense, right, but it's funny to take something that in theory, shouldn't be hard. The ball's not moving, you're not moving. It's so freaking hard and I think that's why it's like a little bit like it's like a drug, and once you start to get better, I guess my only thing is, if you're going to start, be prepared to be hooked, and if you don't want to get hooked, don't start.
Speaker 1:Do not start. But I think too, guys like us who have that obsessive personality like when I was collecting sneakers, I couldn't just have five pairs of sneakers, I had to have 200 pairs of sneakers. When I'm golfing, I can't just be an average guy out there, I gotta be killing like I'll never forget when I first started golfing. All the guys I knew and they had been trying to invite me on the golf trip for years. I'm just like bro, I ain't trying to golf, I ain't to hear that.
Speaker 1:So I eventually get into it because I think somebody came to me, I was at a town hall meeting in Petersburg. So I invested in some property down in Petersburg and I was in a town hall meeting there.
Speaker 2:Hopefully in a casino.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I got in well before the casino, so I'm expecting my property values to rise. We like that and two people jumped up in that meeting and said if you were in this room right now and you're a business for yourself and you don't golf, you are doing yourself a major disservice. And it was like that meeting, another meeting I had and something else. It was like three times that week. I heard people say it, so I said you know what Message received? God? Universe is talking to me.
Speaker 2:I'm picking it up and it's a relationship thing right?
Speaker 1:Yes, that was what I said Going back to brands relating.
Speaker 2:So business is built on the core of relationships right, and not only does it allow you to unplug from what you're doing, it puts you in a setting with three other people. Most of the time, if you're playing in a group of four, they're also unplugging and you get to really know someone and build a true relationship. You know, it's the closing dinner on steroids, where people let their guard down a little bit.
Speaker 2:They open up about who they really are and you can get to know somebody in a real way and not. You're not just looking at a slide deck or you're not just presenting. You're not talking to someone or at someone. You're legitimately bonding over an activity for a pretty long duration of time. Yeah, a very long duration of time, honestly, in today's standards, four and a half hours, yeah, bananas.
Speaker 1:There've been CEOs I've wanted to get a meeting with and I couldn't. But I said, hey, man, I got a tea time. They're like oh yeah, man, I'm there, so a 30 minute meeting.
Speaker 2:I couldn't get with this guy before.
Speaker 2:But now I'm on the golf course with him for five hours yeah exactly it's like oh, I couldn't get 30 minute phone call mold some young minds and just pass on some of these nuggets that I've learned, and I've been lucky enough to have some pretty awesome mentors, um, here in town and, and you know golf is a is a common thread and it is a definitely a connector sport, it's definitely a therapeutic sport and, um, you know it's funny, it gets knocked like in memes a lot about like time away. Um, and you know I often have discussions at home on whether work golf is work but um, oh, me and my wife had plenty, though it is I'm like if I'm closing, deals.
Speaker 1:You can't get mad at me, right?
Speaker 2:and it's like even on like the, the maintenance of a relationship right.
Speaker 2:It's like deal closing is almost like the beginning oh yeah, right, and it's like the investor relations, the nurturing and all of that, and I've found that even some of the bad news definitely goes over better on a golf course and allows it to be internalized more than just an email of, hey, our P&L wasn't great this quarter, blah, blah, blah. Still fighting these COVID things, whatever it's like, hey, let's just talk about it and be real and spend some time on the subject and everyone's so busy. But it's one of the few sports, one of the few activities in the world I can think of, that allows people to really lock in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and plus too, you think of there's an expiration date on playing football and tennis and and basketball and all these other things. Golf is literally like man. When I, when we're on the guys golf trip like we last couple years we go to myrtle beach, when we look over at the hole across from us and I see a bunch of guys in their 70s still out there goofing around, acting just like I'm like dude where else? Because there's some guys that I only see once a year and it's the guy's golf trip and it's like that relationship has been maintained through the year because, like, we got the group chat that goes throughout the year and we're talking about all this stuff and it's like if we didn't have golf, like we wouldn't be connected.
Speaker 1:Touch yeah, you would, and especially when you're getting older and, like the busier, we're getting all these different sorts of things. It's like you need something like this and I think it's therapy for me, like I should probably go and see a therapist on a regular basis as an entrepreneur I don't, but I highly recommend that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm all for it. I used to work in the mental health field for 10 years before I became an entrepreneur, but golf is my therapy. Like I'm so obsessed with everything else I have going on business-wise relationships, kids, all this other kind of stuff, it's like this is me time.
Speaker 1:I get my time at the gym in the morning, but even then, when I'm on the treadmill warming up, I'm checking the emails, seeing what I need to check out. Blah, blah, blah Golf. You can truly unplug For anybody that's early 20s even younger right now. Listen to this Play it man. Picking up the sport of golf. If you're in business for yourself, if you're a salesman, anything like that, picking up golf is one of the best things you could possibly do. It's a cheat code, man.
Speaker 2:It's a cheat code, it really is.
Speaker 1:It's a cheat code.
Speaker 2:It really is man we're going to have to put this in a two-parter.
Speaker 1:I'm literally splitting this up into a two-part episode because I didn't want to cut any of this off. Last thing I have to ask you before we go, and I know I'm well over time on this episode when I went and looked up Surf on Instagram, initially, I'm just trying to get information on you so I can be prepared to talk to you today. What I'll typically do is if a brand has an IG page, typically it's always following the owner of the business, so I hit following and I start to scroll through and I'm like wait what the Tom Brady's following surf app.
Speaker 1:Uh fat Perez is following surf fat, like ESPN, like massive brands are following this. What the hell's going on with that man like, how did you get, how did these people even become aware of this app and what you have going on?
Speaker 2:yeah, so again, like touching back to earlier, when we talked about, like you know, the pros and cons of social media and you know where it's.
Speaker 1:If you tell me that you go for tom brady, I'm gonna be real pissed right now I haven't I have not golfed with tom brady.
Speaker 2:I have golfed multiple times with Fat Perez.
Speaker 2:Fat Perez I would say probably accounts for most of our cool follows because of what he's done in the space and I have been blessed to play golf with some pretty cool people not Tom Brady he would be high on my list. Also because I think I could probably beat him, which would be fun. I'll put that out If we have that, that my whole team will be there to film every bit of that 18 hole. Yeah, that would be a fun one. But yeah, no, I mean, that's the.
Speaker 2:You know that's what we're trying to do with surf and have like a cool, fun brand that's relatable and, um, you know, I think that's kind of shows with the following and and how it's growing and, uh, it's still super early innings. And you know, I think that kind of shows with the following and how it's growing and it's still super early innings and, you know, I think super, super excited about where it's going, super excited about some kind of new celebrity partnerships that we have coming up that should see those type of names get even cooler. But yeah, no, it's fun and I don't think surf follows me. I try to stay off socials in private.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, man, you were actually kind of hard for me to find on social. This is the last thing I'm going to ask you, because you don't have to be front-facing to be successful and build brands and all this other kind of stuff. That's just been like the sweet sauce for me.
Speaker 1:It's like no matter what business I've started, because I've created a brand for myself, people kind of follow and like when I need investors for different things, it's like oh, that's Sam, this guy who did bubble soccer in the media company, like, yeah, if he needs something, he's been able to turn all this into something.
Speaker 1:I'm an open book on social media and my stick is kind of like. I want to show people what it's really like in the day, in the life of building a business, because it's not all sunshine and rainbows. We have some shitty days, if not shitty weeks, man.
Speaker 2:Oh man, and it's not all good Months, yes.
Speaker 1:I like to show people the ins and outs and what this looks like and sometimes I overshare and I've kind of pulled back on that this year.
Speaker 2:But what's your decision in?
Speaker 1:terms of, like, you're a big part of these brands, but you're kind of staying off the grid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's funny because a lot of times I get you know to some of my private on all socials and I get a lot of messages Like the few times I do cut loose and I do kind of share stuff on my stories and um it's like holy shit, it's live. They're like god my wife always looks like you should be. You should have a channel. Uh, because people like what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I think that people would be interested in some of the stuff I do and you know I am kind of a clown sometimes and you know, like when we went to the commanders eagles game, um big Washington fan and I'd never been to the link oh man, we were becoming such good friends and we took a bus from River City. Roll up to the link and I'd had copious amounts of espresso martinis on the way up and was feeling pretty bulletproof going into the link and I was shooting some live videos.
Speaker 2:It was getting some Eagles fans pretty riled up in the. It was fun and you know I did see a lot of engagement right and like the engagement stats are important and it matters and um, but I also try to remind myself that you know these things that I've built are bigger than me. Yeah, and I do want it to be the brand and not.
Speaker 2:Rob, and also for the kids and some of that other stuff. It's just, you know, to be super successful in that space in terms of, like a social media influencer, you can't go halfway in because people know you're not authentic and you know I just haven't and now I'm not cool anymore. I'm like an old washed up dad now. So I kind of missed my window. I think of going all in on that, but you know it is funny and I'm glad that it was hard for you to find it, because that means it's working.
Speaker 1:You're doing, and if I can't find someone, yeah, like, social media is my job, so like, or my staff will like, we'll be editing a video for someone.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, I didn't catch the name of this person. I was like give me two seconds, I'll be right back, yeah, and within five minutes I can find them online, um. So the fact that you got it locked down like that, it's actually pretty impressive yeah, and it helps with the, the headspace, because you know, like you said, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. I've made mistakes, I've done some dumb things. Um, you know, they tell you. They tell you, don't read the comments, don't listen to the haters but like that stuff's real and you know that shit fuels.
Speaker 2:It's hard and yeah, it definitely does and, um, I think it's easy to say it fuels you and it does at some point. But it's also important to like be a little vulnerable and I've it. It hurts too and it did. It does weigh on you and and sometimes you know, even if you know you're right and you know we had, you know, some bad media, if you will, over some stuff at River City. Roll in COVID. I bring it up now just to be real. But I think we were unfairly painted and because of the law and some stuff, like the PR team telling me I'm not allowed to come out and say what.
Speaker 2:I want to say, because that opens us up for legal ramifications that are worse than like bad press but you read some of these things and people that don't know you, um, and don't know what you've done, and I'm super proud of what we've done at River City Roll. I don't think we've really ever wronged anyone and we've built a great community center. We've created a lot of jobs for people.
Speaker 2:We've there's people that have, you know, we've changed their lives with being able to work at river city and help uplift people and but the internet is a mean mean place and it's hard to not read that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um, sometimes it is easier to just not have your name out there and because it's hard, you have to have really thick skin and that's when you see people you know say things about athletes and famous people and stuff it, it's easy to say don't read it. Or yeah, have thick skin, it's hard and mentally it's tough and even if you know it's wrong, like it's hard to read stuff like that and um, I think some of not my lack of public social has been probably a defense mechanism a little bit, but because it is hard to read that stuff, even though it does fuel the fire and you want to prove them wrong, but it's like God, you can't talk to everybody and it's like I would like to think that if anyone has ever written anything ill about me on the internet would sit down like this and have a chat.
Speaker 2:I think that we'd leave the room at least with a cordial handshake. I'm not saying they'd be my homeboy or homegirl, but they would at least, I think, understand the decision-making a little better. It's so easy to be a hater on the internet. It's the easiest thing in the world, and you can't fire back what you want to say because, then you look arrogant.
Speaker 1:And then those screenshots live forever.
Speaker 2:Those receipts will be there forever and and it's hard, and it's like you want to say, like you, little keyboard assassin you're so tough. Why don't you come meet me in the parking lot?
Speaker 2:let's talk about it yep and um, that's not couth, you can't say that ain't happening and um, there has been a time where there was, you know, some noise on the Internet where I did say I will be in the you know, not to fight someone, not some big tough guy, but I said I will be in the parking lot River City roll from 5 pm to 7 pm tonight. I'm willing to take and discuss any and all questions around this. Zero people showed up and discuss any and all questions around this. Zero people showed up.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, of course Not a single person was willing to come have a discussion about a topic they didn't like, but they were willing to write a gazillion characters online about it.
Speaker 1:Twitter fingers are real man. They'll talk all that smack online, but then you put somebody in front. They ain't got nothing to say. So, it's a love-hate thing, man. This has been an awesome conversation yeah, absolutely, if people want to uh connect with your brands, like, give them a couple places where they can go to find out so, um, rob at surf dating appcom.
Speaker 2:Um, on all things surf. Rob at river city rollcom all things. River city roll and bar west. I kind of lumped those two together in the restaurant world. Um, I am pretty easy to find. I'm usually at bar west. I kind of lumped those two together in the restaurant world. Um, I am pretty easy to find. I'm usually at bar west and river city roll every single day. Still, um, it's nice to have a mobile office. It's a fun, dynamic space. You know, jamming on surf on the computer at bar west or at river city roll and? Um, yeah, I'm out in the community a bunch and love connecting. So please, if anyone's listening is interested in wanting to jam further, I'm always down Good stuff.
Speaker 1:Man, appreciate you being on the podcast. Let's go tee it up soon. Absolutely, man. Live from the course. Yes, sir, I'm happy to host. We'll see you guys on the next episode. Thank you.