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You Can't Afford Me
Making the leap from employment to entrepreneurship can be a scary time. The biggest fear people have is the unknown. Here on the “You Can’t Afford Me Podast” we speak with hustlers and innovators on how to make the most of your journey. If you have questions we have answers.
You Can't Afford Me
Entrepreneurial Endurance: Four Decades of Business Evolution
Forty years of entrepreneurship creates wisdom that can't be taught in business school. Susan opens up about the remarkable journey that took her from a one-person company to leading Circle S Studio, an experience agency specializing in brand strategy and employee experience design.
What begins as a candid conversation about entrepreneurial roots quickly evolves into a masterclass on sustainable business building. Susan reveals how she made the leap from corporate America after her daughter's birth, not with a detailed business plan, but with the conviction that she could create something meaningful while being present for her family. This bold move paid off when her former employer became her first client, launching a four-decade entrepreneurial adventure.
The discussion dives deep into what truly drives business longevity: purpose, vision, and unwavering core values. Susan shares how these guiding principles have anchored her company through multiple economic downturns, including the devastating 2008 financial crisis when she questioned her relevance as digital transformation swept through the industry. Rather than surrendering, she adapted by bringing in specialists and reinventing her approach.
Perhaps most valuable is Susan's perspective on building teams that last. She candidly admits her early mistakes trying to "do it all" before discovering the power of hiring professionals who excel where she doesn't. Her insights on culture-building, talent retention, and the delicate art of parting ways with employees provide a roadmap for leaders at any stage.
As the conversation turns to marketing's evolution and AI's emerging role, Susan demonstrates the adaptable mindset that's kept her relevant through four decades of industry transformation. Her balanced approach to embracing innovation while maintaining human connection offers wisdom for navigating today's rapidly changing business landscape.
Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode delivers hard-earned insights about building something that stands the test of time. As Susan puts it: "It's not what happens to you, it's how you handle what happens to you." Listen now to glean wisdom that only forty years in the entrepreneurial trenches can provide.
www.themrpreneur.com
Are you trying to reach decision makers, entrepreneurs and sales professionals, then you Can't Afford Me is your next marketing move. With six episodes a month and a growing audience of CEOs and industry leaders, your brand won't just be heard, it'll be remembered. Advertisers can place audio ads on our podcasts and even secure visual placements in our full-length YouTube videos. This is where smart brands earn attention. Lock in your ad spot today before your competitor does. Email sam at enzomediafirmcom to receive more information.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the you Can't Afford Me podcast, where we skip the fluff and dive straight into the ground Real entrepreneurs, real struggles and the unfiltered journey behind success. Let's get into it. Hey guys, thanks for joining us on another episode of the you Can't Afford Me podcast. Now, oftentimes in this field, in this line of work, I often hear people think like, oh, I'd love to connect you to this person, but you're probably their competition and I think nine times out of 10, even though we're in the same space, we're all doing completely different things. We're going after different clients. So I love being able to pick the brains of people that are also in the space, but in different areas. So I'm super excited today to have Susan on the podcast. Susan, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, thank you.
Speaker 1:Awesome Thanks for being here. So real quick 60 seconds give everybody a quick rundown of who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have had my own company for 40 years and came from a family of entrepreneurs, and business people, so started in corporate America and knew pretty quickly that I wanted to hang my own shingles.
Speaker 2:And I mean, I certainly appreciate that, but 40 years ago started a company of one Creative Associates and I was working doing copy and project management, started in financial side of things and then, 25 years after that, merged with the creative side of the equation and formed Circle S Studio, and so that's 40 years of having my own company. Nice I used to be the youngest person in the room and now I'm the oldest. 40 years goes quickly.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely the oldest person in my company. The average age of my employees is probably like 24, 25 years old, so I'm the old guy around here. What are the services that you guys offer?
Speaker 2:We are an experience agency.
Speaker 2:And within that we specialize in the brand. If you look at our logo, circle S, it's a branding iron of S and people always say what does the S stand for? Well, at the core it's strategy, but I think there's some fun words around S storytelling simplicity. So we craft brands that are powerful powerful. We work with a lot in professional services and you know a cpa firm basically does the same thing as another. A financial advisory firm oftentimes does the next. So we help them niche a little bit more but create powerful brands. We also help with the employee experience. So when I I say that you've got a brand, so how do you infuse that to actually attract and retain top talent?
Speaker 2:And you said earlier yeah, I mean it's creating the culture, creating a place that people want to come to, and that's not easy. It's one of the hardest things. I certainly haven't perfected it. I'm doing it better 40 years later than I did in the beginning. But that employee experience we do a lot of cool things in the space for those that are working in an office environment or something similar. I think we have amazing creative. We also for big events that often are bringing employees, but it can be shareholders or whatever to elevate that experience. So it's all around this operative word experience. How are you experiencing your company, this company be it? Fill in the blank.
Speaker 1:Yep Love that.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, that will lead to a better client experience and within that, we really do the research side of that, keeping the pulse on that client. So that's the niche, the things that we do, consulting, full service, creative and a lot of digital. I mean, today we're in a digital world, so creating the websites and the digital footprint, how to amplify, how to be noticed in the tons of social media places that show up.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love that. Let's start back at the beginning of the journey. So I've often said on this show I believe entrepreneurs are born, not made. I just think there's something in our guts that says we didn't wake up one day and say I can't stand having a boss or this, that and the other. It's just like there's something cool I want to do. I feel like I didn't fit in any of these other spaces so I just went out on my own and tried. You, growing up around entrepreneurs, did you always feel from an early age that like, yeah, at some point I'm going to go work at Corporate America for a while, but at some point I see myself owning my own company?
Speaker 2:I think your gut is right on that. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but I think it has to be modeled.
Speaker 2:You have to see it somewhere whether it's in your family or friends or someone that you've admired, and if that spirit of you're going to do it, and when you say your way, my way, that's the beauty of it. It's the double-edged sword, because you have an idea. The question is will it work? Will someone buy it? Are you able to articulate it and actually sell it? So I do think they're born and I just had so many role models. It was my normal thing. One uncle ran an insurance company, another one ran a fish company company, another one was very good with machinery. He had his own. I mean, my dad was an attorney yeah, I mean it just goes on and on.
Speaker 2:One was in commercial real estate. I just thought that's what the world did yeah, so I guess everybody went to college, got in corporate America and I can remember spending time going hmm, where is there a void, where can I create something? So yeah, it was deeply embedded in me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What was that? When you came to that decision-making process? So I'll share with you how I exited corporate America and started my own business, which I don't recommend for people to do. The reason I named this podcast the you Can't Afford Me podcast is because I used to work in the mental health space for 10 years and that's what I told my boss when I quit. I said you can't afford me anymore. I'm going off to build these businesses and that was a complete lie. He could afford me.
Speaker 1:I was dead broke, had no savings, anything like that, but I knew this was something I had to do. What was that transition like for you? Because I feel a lot of people think that you know I'm going to start this side hustle while I'm working full time and then, magically, what's going to happen in the next six to 12 months is my side hustle, money is going to start out gaining my full time income, and it's going to be a nice, easy, smooth transition. I found it typically doesn't work that way. So when you made that decision to move outside of corporate America and start your own thing, talk us through what that looks like A little bit different for me.
Speaker 2:My daughter had just been born, didn't have family around, and 40 years ago the daycare situation was a little bit different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure was a little cheaper back then too.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, probably and I can remember this shows how naive I was. I said to my manager I don't think I'm going to come back, so I don't think I'm entitled to maternity leave. And he said well, legally we have to give you maternity leave. But I felt that that was so disingenuous. I wasn't entitled to it, I'd worked there five years. Entitled to it, I'd worked there five years. I just knew in my heart and soul that I didn't want to punch in and have someone else raising her.
Speaker 2:So I jumped off the cliff. I did not have a business plan. I went back, I gave him a two weeks notice and I had a zero plan. I just knew that something was going to be on the other side. I landed pretty well because as soon as I left, they contacted me and said would you be interested in freelance work? Would you continue writing and producing this? We would love what you did for us. And my dad being an attorney, he said go ahead and be professional on it. So established a company and that was my start. I had one client and continued to do work and kept that account until they merged with another bank about 15 years later. So it was a nice run, true.
Speaker 1:So at least two gems I picked up from what you just said right there. Number one you showed your heart to that company when you were like I don't feel, like I'm doing maternity leave, I already know I'm going to leave. Like you guys, we can part ways. Number one that shows your character. Like that's a good, that's a person you want to keep around. So one off the top, like hearing you say that I'm sure that was a thought in their head is like she did great work and then this is how she chose to exit the company. Yeah, if we can continue to work with her, we're going to figure out a way to do this.
Speaker 1:And number two I think way too many people burn bridges on the way out the door. Like you never know what it can lead to. Like there's a client right now that I'm coaching him and his wife. They've gone off and have their own entrepreneurial journey right now. And it was a similar thing where, like he was leaving the company, he was leaving to start his business full time and they did come back and offer him and say, well, hey, we'd like for you to train this person. So when I was coaching him, I was talking to him about price points. You need to come in at blah, blah, blah, like how much they need you. I was surprised by the reaction because he had a certain price point in his head that him and his wife had discussed and when he went back to the company he said no, we're not going to pay that. Well, we'll give you half of that. And just going out on faith and doing this on its own. If I was in a situation I'd probably have been like all right, yeah, I told you.
Speaker 1:Like you guys don't want it, like I'm moving on, um, so that that piece were like, and I'm sure you've had this where, like, people that are at your organization may have not left in the best of terms, and it's like there's so many situations where we could could continue to work together if people just did the right thing absolutely, and I love your point never, ever, burn a bridge you know how you show up day to day.
Speaker 2:you never know when those paths will cross, and whether you're in a big town or a small town, it's actually a small town. People will share where that experience is not great.
Speaker 1:Richmond is real small Richmond is, I think, the world is.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's funny, but you know, and that I call it the ecosystem. You know if you can build a bigger ecosystem of people you admire. But that trust factor, if there's trust and if you're good, people will pay a price for that.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely Absolutely. People are looking for other individuals that they can trust and learn from and different things of that nature. One thing that I'm just like you got some dog in you, like you had a baby about to pop out and you immediately made the decision that, hey, I'm going to go. Most moms will be freaking out in that situation, like thinking about their child's future and things like that. It seemed like you, the way you tell that story, that you were pretty calm and firm in that decision. What was it about that that made you say I know deep down in my heart, this is the right thing that I should be doing.
Speaker 2:I love the question and I'll tell you how it unfolds for me. I grew up with a great family. I used to call it leave it to Beaverville.
Speaker 1:Mom was June.
Speaker 2:Klieper and dad was out working. But we were a tight-knit family and that creates exactly that a tight-knit family and there was a security. I so admired my mom.
Speaker 2:She was a great homemaker and she was the CEO of our home, and my dad was just a great businessman. He probably gave away more in his legal side of things. When he passed away, there was every form of humanity for three hours at the funeral home. He just touched people and he cared about people. It was like I wanted a little bit of dad's world but I wanted a little bit of my mom's, and so I just said I've got to create this myself and figure out my own hours. And I can remember people being confused like do you work, do you not work? You know women can be so hard on one another. I'm like you know, yeah, I do both, and it just I had the faith that it would. I can always go back to work, yeah. But I was going to give it a shot and my daughter just started her own company. I'm proud of her.
Speaker 2:Nice 40 years later and it's fun, you know. I hope I've been a role model. I certainly love to work with all types, and I'm an executive coach too now. Nice. Just helping teaching. No need to do what I did Learn faster. Accelerate that Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What would you say to a woman, a young woman, listening to this right now that you know because society, I think, for the most part, has told women you can't be the boss, babe, the CEO and be a great mom. What would you say to that woman that's listening to this? That she wants to go out and start her own company, but she also wants to be a great mom and people are telling her she can't have it all. What would you say to her?
Speaker 2:That you're talking to the wrong person all, what would you? Say to her that you're talking to the wrong person. Who says that's the answer? I think we can. It does require a lot of people to help you. It's hard to do anything by yourself and that's rule number one as a young mother, as a young entrepreneur, is trust and bring that network together, because trying to do it all, you will never do it all. Yeah, so I think you can. It requires a lot of discipline. Discipline will be your destiny. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there are a lot. You've got to get great care for your children. That's job number one. If you know they're safe, then you can safely go off and be you. And I do believe in quality time. It's quantity versus quality Give me, and I just was so intent when I was back home. They were the fun times, Although I told a story. I spoke at an event recently and my children were there and I worked at home in the beginning.
Speaker 2:And when my door was shut, it meant mom was in a meeting and when that door was shut, and if they misbehaved when I opened that door, they were just like whoa mama's coming out and she's got a mean look in those eyes. But, I taught them that I can be there with you, but I can't be with you all the time.
Speaker 2:And you honored this time for yourself and you show me that you know how to do it right. And then let me do things so that we can enjoy life together, absolutely. You know, I just merged it together because that's what I wanted to do and I did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's all I mean. I think ultimately, if someone's determined to get something done and they put their mind to it, there's no stopping us. Humans are capable of way more than we give ourselves credit for. Let's talk about the development of your organization, because I want to park it there. You said you've been in business 40 years. Now this is my 10th year in business with this organization and I think it's some astronomical number. Like 80% of businesses don't get past the third year. That's right At 10 years. I got some people looking at me like man, great job. I hear you saying 40 years. I'm like geez, what gems can I pluck from this? So what would you say if you had to give a top three in terms of longevity and I have a sense, based on what you've said so far, what one of the things be, but I'm not going to jump in. I want to see if that's what you say, what would be top three keys you would say in terms of staying in business for the long term?
Speaker 2:It involves around the strategic lens of your guiding principles, your purpose, your vision, and that vision is your strategy, the mission and your core values. I think when you have those foundationally solid and you revisit them, I mean the purpose, like what gets you up in the morning? That fire in your belly, if you know, you know and you can maybe state yours like why did you decide to go out? And for me, I just, I love elevating everything, a brand, the team that I'm with, so that's the fire in my belly.
Speaker 2:With a vision and when you go back and look at it, I think core values kind of get into the behaviors that are going to show up, the non-negotiables, and it's one thing. When it's you, you add two more, it's easy, you start adding 10, 15, that's where those guiding principles, those core values, are you saying them and are you living them? I think those that don't make it, they don't have a strategic plan and they don't follow those basic things. And then I could go into what else I see that's missing. But you know I've also started other small things that didn't make it. So I mean it's not all of them are going to make it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you only need one good idea to take off. Let's stick on that vision piece because I think a lot of entrepreneurs where they struggle is as entrepreneurs we're blessed with the gift of vision. So when I come into this office on a daily basis I'm thinking two to five years ahead of where we're at right now. My employees are thinking till the end of the week, so sometimes it can be difficult for many entrepreneurs to really take what's in here and connect that vision with their team, and I hear that threaded throughout everything that you're discussing. How do you get that vision out of you and really get your people to understand what this calling is, what the vision is for this organization?
Speaker 2:There are a lot of different roadmaps that you can follow. We love the EOS, the Entrepreneurial. Operating System. Are you familiar with it? Absolutely. I think it's brilliant. I've looked at a lot of different ones, but it's basically got the traction roadmap.
Speaker 2:So, once you establish your guiding principles, it is get them out of your head and bring your whole team together. So the best companies that we work with and consult with every employee can state who they are, or at least the guiding principles. And that's a gauge for me If I can go in and we're doing the qualitative, quantitative research. And you ask, and what's interesting is that they are successful companies but they're missing a little bit on the culture. I think in today's world it's even I don't think what got you here won't get you there in today's world, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:So that's a key thing that we are seeing. But, yes, I think most of them keep it in your head and that everyone thinks they should know, because it's osmosis. No, it is clearly articulating. I believe in transparency too, giving a sense of the financials. Here's where we are, here's where we're going, but everyone needs to know what that North Star is. And if you're a great leader, then if you can bring people with that entrepreneurial spirit but people want to follow leaders, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And not everyone needs to be a leader, although I do think leadership is a mindset that we can all lead in our own purposeful way.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. Talk to us about the transition between you. Talk about how big the difference is between you. Know, you add two or three people to your team, then you get to seven to 15 and start scaling up from there. I'm sure leadership style and all those things have to change along the way. As an example, like last year in my organization I had 14 people on staff and have you ever read the book BE 2.0? No, beyond Entrepreneur 2.0. It is literally. There are maybe five business books that I've recommended to everybody. I've just recently discovered this book and this may be the greatest business book I've ever read in my entire life. By the time I got to the 15th page, I was like this is the greatest thing I've ever read. What was so great?
Speaker 1:about it. So the guy who wrote the book he is. When Steve Jobs came back which Steve Jobs is my goat in terms of entrepreneurs when Steve Jobs came back to Apple the second time, this was the guy he called to advise him, and everybody thinks it was the invention of the iPod and the iPad and things like that that took Apple into the stratosphere. And Steve Jobs' main mission, once he came back to Apple the second time, was just find the best possible talent in the world that he could possibly get and get them on board with his organization, and that's what scaled them to the level that they're at.
Speaker 1:And it opened up my eyes to a lot in terms of you know, sometimes it can be difficult as a CEO and entrepreneur to kind of separate your feelings, sometimes when it comes to the people on your team, where, like, there were some people on the team where I felt that they had turned down other opportunities to continue to roll with me and build with me and but they weren't just, they just weren't getting the job done, and I'm like, but you know, he passed up that opportunity, or this person has a kid or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like I'm just gonna give another opportunity. Um, so at the time I had 14 people in the organization. Last year I've literally cut my staff in half and we are weeks ahead of schedule with clients. Quality is way better, clients have never been happier, and this is all in the process while I'm reading this book and I'm doing all this stuff in real time and I'm like man. It's not about building a massive team like before. I used to dream of like having an organization one day with like 250, 300 people. This moment, where I'm at, I'm like that seems like a massive headache to me.
Speaker 2:Bigger is not always better, yeah, and In fact, your margins can get smaller and smaller. So that's, you're a young man, so that's a great epiphany, and I would concur 100%.
Speaker 1:I got a lot of gray hair. I don't know how young I am, but talk about that transition from 100%. I got a lot of gray hair. I don't know how young I am, but talk about that transition from, let's say, going from five employees to you know 20.
Speaker 2:What were the changes that you had to make as the leader. You know, when I look back, I think I had to do it all and when I realized that most people do it better than me anyway and to trust. But that's where, as the leader, we have to give the vision of what we're doing and we have to know our lane and we have to empower them to do. But I think we made much better things happen when I stopped trying to hire fresh out of school and hired for their culture, matching ours, their work ethic, and that they are curious and that they're really good at what they do.
Speaker 2:Now you're going to pay a premium for that, but I think the premium is for the work that takes place. So we found that same thing and I think where I messed up in the beginning is I hired a human being, but today we hire for cultural fit first, and then for the skill set and then being really clear on who we're serving and what do we need people to do. Beyond, what lane is everyone in? I think you get bigger and there's like this you can read a million books but 50 people I mean you can have a community with that, maybe as much to 150. But then if you've got thousands of people, then they all work in little. It's like being at a big university. You find your little. We like community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hmm, that reminds me of I'm not sure if you're a football fan, I'm a big Pittsburgh Steelers fan of I'm not sure if you're a football fan, I'm a big Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and the thing I've always loved about my Pittsburgh Steelers and what I love about them is that the way they draft is unlike most other teams. At the time when Tom Brady was with the Patriots, I think the Steelers and the Patriots were the only ones really drafted like this.
Speaker 1:A lot of teams would screw up because you know number one draft pick, this is the top QB coming out of college this year. But they don't necessarily fit your style of play. What the steelers have always been able to do is, you know, they may wait till the fifth or sixth round to find a guy like a big ben. Other teams they're not, they're not, he's not on their radar. But for the steelers it's like this guy fits the mold for what we're trying to build around. It's funny because I'm going to rag on the Washington fans for a minute. For so many years they've had on paper it's like a fantasy football team the receivers, the quarterbacks, the running backs, what they've had on paper it looks phenomenal but it doesn't translate in real time because these aren't the right pieces to go with that organization. Hearing you saying it it's like this allowed me me to kind of simplify. That in my head is like less focus on the person, more focus on the culture.
Speaker 2:Some of the best coaches football. I love sports. They do it differently and I do think there is a cultural component. I mean Tony Bennett, my daughter went to UVA, got son-in-law went to UVA, daughter-in-law.
Speaker 1:He was just here speaking a couple months ago at the summit here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I loved him and I mean he left because it's changing so much and it didn't match his purpose and his principles. I give a lot of kudos to someone like that, but I thought he was a terrific coach and it was very principle-based, but that was his approach. I think everyone has to be genuinely them and there's enough room for all of us, but there are certain things that just are tried and true. It doesn't matter what generation you're from. It doesn't matter what year you were born.
Speaker 1:Yeah, principles are principles.
Speaker 2:Principles are principles and they have been from. They will never go out of style.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely. How do you think you know, in the marketing realm, you know, over the course of 40 years being in this business, how do you think marketing has changed, whether it's for the better or the good? Because you know, for our team, you know we're managing company social media management. We're, you know, creating video content and all these different things for them, producing podcasts. But the formulas I use to get started in this business and get my name out there don't work today. Before it was just quantity, quantity, quantity, quantity, just get as much content out as I possibly could, and my name got out there and things started to happen. Now I'm kind of seeing the reverse, where it's more let's go quality over quantity, quantity, and there are some other strategies here. So what are some of the big changes you've seen over the course of 40 years? Definitely a lot.
Speaker 2:I mean in the day. What was different is that the company owned this stage. So you would create your plan, you would amplify it and the media options were pretty limited. It was print, it was TV, it was radio, direct mail, it was pretty simple stuff. And so you would create the plan and then we would disseminate it and you know everyone was listening and you know you would go from there. I mean, where it really changed, it was during like 2008, 2009. I mean when digital became so powerful and Barack Obama was running for president.
Speaker 1:He was campaigning on Facebook.
Speaker 2:I remember that being a huge change of digital is here, and it was just like Jack Kennedy when he was on TV With that medium. I think Barack Obama opened the door for everyone to say this is a powerful medium. At that time I was like, wow, digital, I'm not relevant. And so it was like then I need to figure out how to be relevant and I need to bring the experts in who are, and I spent a lot of time, but I think the flip was it flipped the lens of where the audience was also part of the brand. I mean, if you look at we get rated all the time, you know you do something and if you are an employer, you can find out what your ex-employees think, and that's a bell curve. It's those that are really happy and those who are sad I think there's something in the middle that's not being put out there that are really happy and those who are sad. I think there's something in the middle that's not being put out there.
Speaker 2:But the digital experience I think content is king and you made an interesting comment. It's not about quality, it is about, I mean, quantity. It's the quality, the quality, the thought leadership. I believe that you should be helpful, relentlessly so, and help educate and then good will come to you absolutely. And no one wants the used car salesman. They get dinged a lot, but people know when you're selling to them absolutely. So I think that's where it has changed. Um, we do a lot more in video than we did in the day. People love storytelling absolutely. So you said is it for the better or for worse? Ai now is the whole new.
Speaker 1:I was about to touch on that. Yeah, are you an aspiring entrepreneur? Our one-on-one coaching tailor strategies to your unique business goals. Dive into interactive workshops fostering skills essential for success. Looking for an inspirational speaker for your next event? Book Mr Prenuer to elevate your gathering. Visit wwwthemistaprenuercom to learn more and embark on your path to entrepreneurial success. Mr Prenuer, empowering your entrepreneurial spirit.
Speaker 1:Because I let me open this up there, which is it's funny I had a member of my team and I told you like average age of my staff here is like 24, 25. Ai was brought up in a team meeting. One of the youngest gentlemen on my team like really started to go in on it. And you know I've announced to the team several times like guys, we have to run towards AI. Like this is a Netflix blockbuster situation Either you get on board or you're left behind, and that's not in regards to my company. This is the world. We have to figure this out. So, even with what we do, with podcasting, we have AI systems now. I'm sure my clients need to know this, but we have AI systems now. Where it used to take these guys three hours to edit all this Literally, now we can dump the video clips, the sound files. They put it in a system, hit a button and AI runs. It Literally takes 10 minutes to cut this entire episode up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And before it would have taken my guys three hours, absolutely. So now we're able to serve more people because of these tools. So yeah, go into that. Give us your opinion on what AI looks like to you and where you think this is going.
Speaker 2:Because a lot of people think this is going to replace jobs. I don't think so. I think it's going to aid. I think if you don't embrace it, your job will be replaced. Yes, they're going to replace you. I think we have to, and I actually think agencies in general can be the ambassadors for helping our clients understand it better. They all know we're using it and they're using it too. The question is who's using it? Well, so our philosophy is we want to use it. Well, we spend a lot.
Speaker 2:About eight years ago, maybe even 10 years ago, I start, I follow, you know public companies and where are they investing? I read the annual reports and I noticed there's a lot of investment in this artificial intelligence, which got me really curious. Like what does that mean? Where is it going? I mean anything related to Google. They're using the algorithms, we know that, but why are all these companies investing in it? So I had my consulting person, Tammy Berry. I said put together a small little task force and let's do. We want to be kind of on the cutting edge of this? Would we want to enter it? Long story short story short. It was the wild wild west. It still is a little bit, and we were not going to be the early adopters, because you know I couldn't devote that much time yeah and so we've allowed it.
Speaker 2:chat gpt changed everything absolutely and we do use it. We've just invested. I think last year it was a two-day virtual conference, we purchased it, so many seats, and then we have access to all of it. And so what I look at is what processes can we make faster and better? I think it's brilliant in that regard. It's still not the. You've got to humanize.
Speaker 2:Ai is where I am. There's a lot of repetition to it. I mean, and it can be wrong a lot and I test it frequently. I will put in a query Can you give me this? And it'll be that I know what the answer is and it's not bringing it back. So you, you have to know how to use it. But I think there's a trainability. I think, too, for clients. I mean, it is helping for brand sheets that we do. You can go in and things that used to take three days. We can go in with certain tools and it can be done in three hours. Now are we passing those savings on to the client? I think you're right, we're serving more people, but I think we have to let clients know where it is being used and how it is benefiting us. So I'm still on the edge to understand how to do it better, but I mean we're all learning together and it's to me it's an incredible thing, like some of the symbols of ChatGPT.
Speaker 1:I saw this in a TikTok the other day and I started doing this Young lady basic video she pops on. She's like hey, if you're buying online, you need to use ChatGPT and here's how. So I'm a big sneakerhead and golfer, so I'm on Nike all the time like buying new golf shoes and stuff like that. I hope my wife's not listening to this put in Nikecom and say, hey, I'm about to purchase something on the site, find me discount codes and it scours the entire internet and kicks me back codes, lets me know the refresh rate, and it worked. So, like now, when I go to buy something online, I don't buy something online without running it through ChatGPT first and say give me at least get the free shipping or something like that. Like there's so much money being saved in that space. But yeah, I agree with you in terms of like the human piece of it. But I think we're getting to a point where this is my prediction this may be a hot take and it may not be too hot.
Speaker 1:I think Gary Vee may have said some things about this too. I think the next major social media channel, because we typically see a major social media channel every seven to 10 years, somewhere around that range. I think the next major social media channel is going to be all AI generated content, because it's getting so good now where, like you remember, when it first came out in the AI videos, it was like a video of Will Smith eating a bowl of spaghetti created by AI, and he had like eight fingers on one hand and all that crazy stuff. Now it has become almost so seamless. I can pick it out because I've seen the evolution and we're in the video space, but I think the average consumer is going to be real difficult to find to figure out some of these things. I agree. So we're on that cutting edge of that piece.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people are frightened by it for sure. And I think a lot of people are frightened by it for sure, and I think some jobs that we know today are going to be eliminated.
Speaker 2:but new jobs will come from it. So it's just, it's from the beginning of time, that's the way it's been. I don't fear it, I want to learn. And anybody who is saying and I would just encourage you, if you think you can run from it, I would ask you to think again. Yeah, the genie is out of the bottle and it is only getting better by the day, yep, and more diverse. It's not for the design team. It's got a ways to go, but it doesn't mean that it can't.
Speaker 1:I have it at two or three window before. It's doing a lot of the stuff we need on the design side. But we've seen that this is the thing that confuses me when I hear people say things like this. We've seen this movie before with Henry Ford introducing the production line. Everybody's like, oh, these machines are going to take all these jobs away from the factory workers. No, you just have to be educated and trained in a different way and this is a tool that we're going to use. People said that when the Internet came out Shoot. People said it when the invention of the car, saying oh, we're leaving the horse and buggies and newspapers and all these different things like the telephone. Like every time there's major innovation, the people that are fearful of it are the ones that get left behind.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, I'm glad to get your take on that piece. That's right that your retention rate is pretty good and I think often in our space, like turnover rates, can be pretty high. What is it that you do besides? You know the vision and pieces like that to retain the best talent within your organization.
Speaker 2:A couple of things. I mean right now we have a pretty low, I think, because we're hiring more senior people and I mean you can look at the numbers too Someone who's fresh out of school. They're going to leave their job, probably in two and a half to three years, and that's what they think they should do. I would just say that the grass is not always greener. If you have a great company and you are being compensated fairly, be patient and allow your career to go.
Speaker 2:If there's something that's a burning desire, then go. You know, I want everyone to meet their needs, but I think those who have been to other cultures and then come to Circle S it's like whoa. So what do we do? We pay competitive salary and I would say we pay more than competitive benefits. Are we able to continue For as long as we can? We will. That's number one. I think. The other thing is we are. We have our three core values are respect. So how do we have respect? Live in the company that's a big thing. That's important to me. Collaboration we're better together. And drive I want to see a fire in your belly and I don't want to hand everything to and so we have a coach empower, delegate and be clear on what you're doing and empower people to do it. And I would say more today than in the past a career path is really important and continuing education is really important. And are you giving me? We have a bit of flex time.
Speaker 2:We also believe in giving back to the community. So there we give time for volunteering in the community, we have a spur grant so they're able to work on and they get to picket something in our community and we open it up to really the whole US because it's our clients. But it's also nice to sometimes just take care of the local community.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so those are just a few things. It's probably better to ask them what we do, but we've been. You have to be 15 people or more to be a best place to work.
Speaker 2:And so when we were 15, 16,. We've gotten it several times. We're 14 this past year, so couldn't apply. But you know, taking the pulse too, keeping a pulse we also. You should not have a review two times a year. Managers meet monthly. There should never be. They have goals. There should never be confusion. I believe in candor, with care. If you're not performing, then let's discuss it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I here's what I say to our management team. Well, before you go there with them, hold the mirror up to you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And what have we not done or communicated? Just worked on it in a strategy session yesterday with the management team. Everyone's all a flutter about this, that and the other. They don't know who's owning what. I was like timeout. What's the process on it? Map it out. Okay, where have we communicated this? Now? It may be that they are doing things wrong, but own it first, before it's someone else's problem.
Speaker 1:Look at the man in the mirror first.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that was probably the moment I recognized that I was truly growing into an entrepreneur, when my first reaction if something went wrong, was what was it that I could have done? Absolutely and even when it's something like, let's say, employee, like cussing someone out, like I know I wasn't the cause of that, but looking deeper and saying, well, have I created a culture in which somebody feels comfortable that they can act like that in the place of business? Yeah, I need to revert that on me and see what it is that I can change.
Speaker 2:But with strong core values of respect. That person can come in and you would say that that's not respect. You've got the last time you do that. If that was my employee, you will not be working here again because it can. It's. It's what you hire for and it's what you fire for. You don't live it, you move on.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about? I recently put out some content on this. I think Donald Trump this is before all the political stuff he made the phrase you're fired very popular and I think a lot of people thought, like man, it'd be cool to be sitting in the big seat and fire people. To me, that is the hardest and toughest part of this job. What are your recommendations when? What do you see as the best ways to part ways with an employee One of my favorite entrepreneurs right now?
Speaker 1:Have you heard of Cody Sanchez before? Absolutely love Cody Sanchez and I took this from her early this year and thank God I heard this when I did, because there were two people that I had to let go from my company early in the year and she said you don't go into great detail about something, you just sit them down and say it's no longer a good fit, because I've tried it every way where I've had two hour exit meetings with employees and they're just going off and getting everything off their chest and they're talking about stuff that they don't even know about and like just condemning you as a CEO and then you know going the other route and then right in the middle, it's just like CEO and then you know, going the other route, and then right in the middle is just like hey, it's no longer a good fit Because there's nothing I can say in that moment. That's truly going to make someone feel better.
Speaker 2:So what's your approach to that? I would agree, we try to work in a nine box grid. You may be familiar with it, and so it's basically these different categories where your team is, and I can do the same for myself. Are you moving yourself up? And if you're not, then you need to move them out. So, along the way, anytime we see that performance is suffering, it's a simplified PIP, a performance improvement plan, and so the manager is let's talk about this skill. So it's like you're observing over 30, 60, 90 days. If that improves, then fine. So then I think we have to move them up, we have to coach them up, especially if it's a cultural fit and if you see talent, it behooves us to invest in them. If you are continuing to do that, then you have to ask yourself the definition of insanity. If it is a weekly conversation and your management mean you've got a problem, then at what point are you going to stop talking? About it.
Speaker 2:You know, it doesn't mean that we're bad people. It doesn't mean that person is bad. It means it's not a good cultural fit. Yep. Or it's not a good skill fit, and I would approach it the same way. I think less is better. I think being fair on the other side, if you can give resources, if they've been there so many years, a plan for them. You know it's severance, but I think for us it's don't burn a bridge, and how can you be helpful for the next chapter?
Speaker 1:What is? I think, oftentimes, when entrepreneurs get started, the last thing we're thinking about when we start a company is what our exit strategy is going to be. What's this going to look like 40, 50, 60 years from now? Because, as much as I'd love to believe that I will do this till the day I die, there may come a time where I wake up because our our wives are going to change as we go through life. Like where I am 10 years now, my why is not the same as what it used to be in terms of building a business, and I often go back and forth on this where it's like yeah, you know, I thought I'm going to build it up to this point. Then I'm going to sell this company off because I got 20 million ideas in my head in terms of different businesses to do.
Speaker 1:Then on the other side, I think is like, as a person of color, there aren't that many founders with companies Like. Oftentimes we build the businesses up and then we sell them off. So part of it for me is like the legacy what can I leave behind? And I don't necessarily expect that my kids are going to want to be entrepreneurs. I see some glimmers in there but, they're five and three right now Too soon to tell.
Speaker 1:Too early for me to judge that, but what has that been like for you? How early were you thinking about a strategy or an exit session, and is that something you always see yourself being part of this organization? Or have you opened yourself up to say well, once it gets to this point, or I don't have the same drive and passion that I used to, I'm going to hand this off to someone else.
Speaker 2:I love the question and I think most of us think about it too late. But if you go back to the purpose of your company, some want it to just be a lifestyle business. They don't really want to add millions of people. It supplies them with a great living and when they're done they shut the door. So if you're clear that that's the path that you want, I would love for Circle S to stay and it would bring me great joy. I've been thinking about succession for 15 years, so it has it. I mean, you just start to see what. What would it look like? Could a sale actually happen? Would we want it to have other partners internally? So I think for small, closely held organizations, the sooner you start the better. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I heard on a podcast recently. It was on a gentleman who had sold his business and did quite well. He was in an MBA class and a professor said if you are starting a business from day one, you need to know what is the exit of that and think about it at the beginning, which is a pretty interesting, and if you want to sell, I think it's just putting the strategy and what are the pros and cons of that? And it's not always easier if you're loving it day to day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to let it go it's hard to let it go and I have fallen victim to the 50 million ideas that I've had. Not all of them have worked, you know, and it distracts you. I mean there, I think they're riches and niches, and if you are happy, with that just be comfortable that you know God's given you a path to go and have fun with it.
Speaker 1:Do you suffer from? I'll tell you, up to this point, I've owned nine businesses and, as of yesterday, I was considering a tenth. I was potentially about to buy another company, do you feel? And I literally have like 50 different business ideas listed out. Do you feel you have ADD of the brain as well, too?
Speaker 1:Because I don't think I've met an entrepreneur that's not constantly thinking and being like oh, we could do this, we could do this, and luckily I'm getting mature enough now where I don't make moves without seeking counsel from my advisors, like there are people in my circle now that I know can trust. They have a vested interest in what I'm doing and, standing from the outside, they're able to see things from a different perspective. Because I talked to one advisor yesterday when this opportunity came about and he was like dude, you are on the cusp of doing something insane here with your current business. Do not get distracted. Yeah, that's a good opportunity, but it's not the right opportunity for you at this time. Those moments will come back to you. You don't need to focus on that. So do you see yourself battling with that at all?
Speaker 2:I don't know that I'm ADD. I have brought children into the world and surround myself with them and maybe I've become more ADD. I have it a little bit. I see opportunities and so it's interesting. But I think if you get to a point where you've got a really nice amount of capital that you would not leverage who you are and what you're doing, and the older we get you make a mistake then a lot can fall down. But you made an interesting point talking to people. I have three groups, if you will. That keep me, I think, maybe wise and relevant. I always seek people who have been down this path before or specialists in something that I'm not, and so that's my team of advisors that I cherish. Also my peers, people who are walking with me. I'm part of an agency management group that you're in. You can do virtual peer groups, but I do the continuing ed, in that you can learn from people who are doing what we do yeah we can share successes, what's working, what's not, and then paying it forward.
Speaker 2:Who? Who is just starting out? I love those three mindsets, so that I'm not getting satisfied, but what, what's new and what has always worked, and so that that's just the rhythm of how I evaluate things and I don't make that. I used to make decisions too quickly that was me. I think I I would have benefited over the years to have brought more wise counsel in before the next thing was out.
Speaker 2:But you make this point, it distracts you, and how many distractions can you have? And if you go back to the plan, what do you want? I just get all of the ideas down and then prioritize them. Now what is important? Why do I want to do that? Is it viable? Will it sell? Do I want to invest in that? And if you do, then find someone who can also do it with you.
Speaker 1:I saw Alex Ramosi put out a video the other day and he said he said you know, I get a ton of ideas for businesses and stuff all the time. He's like you know what I do? I take out a piece of paper, I write them all down, I put them in a drawer and I don't look at it. He was like and then if the time comes three years from now and it's like you know, I want to do something different, then he can revert back to that list.
Speaker 1:But I think patience as an entrepreneur is a big thing. That can. That can help with an individual success, because just sitting, knowing when you know because things will happen, they get you your temper up and I've learned never to make a business decision while I'm upset. I will say, hey, we're going to come back to this in 24 hours. It can be an email, a text or whatever I say. You know what? I'm not answering this now because I'm going to have a completely different perspective when I wake up the next morning and I think, slowing down because still, you're moving pretty fast, it's 24 hours, not even that.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of times we feel the need because of the things we see in marketing in terms of you know, 22-year-old, he's worth $10 million now. And we all think, like how's he 22 and I'm my age and I've got to catch up to this kid, like no, that's not everybody's journey. And when you hear those things too, you don't know what someone's dealing with.
Speaker 2:There are so few that fall into that category, that's the unicorn of unicorns. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And people don't realize too is that when they hear numbers, they see certain things. I know people walk into this office because this is a massive upgrade from what our previous office was. I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I see people walking in here and counting my pockets. The second they walk in they think, oh, sam's got this now. But they don't understand. As you're elevating and you're growing, your expenses are generally going higher too, and when you have that heart to give back to your people and you want to give them more, a lot of those profits that a CEO would be taking, you're feeding back throughout your organization. Let me ask you this last question as we wrap up. I started asking this question to every guest. Now, describe to us the lowest moment you've had as an entrepreneur and how you overcame that. It's a deep one.
Speaker 2:I mean one of the lowest, because when Circle S was formed, mark Smith was my business partner, a terrific Mark Smith with Midas?
Speaker 1:No, not that.
Speaker 2:Mark Smith, and he's great too. But Mark Smith, who passed away about 10, 12 years ago, that was probably my lowest moment to lose. You know, he was 62 years old. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was a gut punch of like whoa, I would say. The lowest moment, beyond just the loss of a human being, was the big meltdown in 2008, 9, 10. It was impossible to maneuver, I feel. In some ways it feels very reminiscent to 2008, 9. We had done a lot in the financial industry and that whole industry imploded. You know Lehman Brothers was crashing and I mean you could go down the stock market. There were pictures of people in the stock market watching it.
Speaker 1:Enron. Enron I mean.
Speaker 2:It just was like what is happening in the world. And then this was also the rise of the whole digital thing and I felt scared, I didn't feel relevant, I didn't know if I could do the job anymore and I put it down on paper. I talked to people and it was like, yes, you can. So if you don't know digital, get someone who does. You have to right size your staff for what your top line is, and that's what I didn't do. You know, stuff will happen.
Speaker 2:If you look at stock markets, it goes up, it goes down. When it goes down, give it a little time. But you may need to right size. And I don't know why you trimmed. But sometimes you're adding, sometimes you are keeping to do it, but sometimes you have to prune because that's where growth can be. But it was a pretty low. But we came out of that, I think, stronger than ever. I brought in professionals, helped me look at it. We, for the first time, we don't have debt in our company. But when that it took forever for the market to come back, we kicked into a line of credit and we were paying salaries on a line of credit. I don't think I would ever make that mistake again. That was a low point, but that was 2008, 2009,. And here we are today. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people just don't realize like I don't want to say the burden we bear because we choose to do this, but this is not easy, like it is not easy. Entrepreneurs spend a lot like what you said there in terms of like we, and when we're in those moments we often do second guess ourselves, like I've had those moments over the years where I'm like am I ceo material? Like am I the guy that should be running this? Like what qualifies me to do x, y and z? And then you have those moments where you're able to reflect you. You talk to people, you write them down, you get these thoughts out and you realize like no, there's a simple solution to this.
Speaker 1:If I don't know this, I'm not going to get the information. If I need this on my team, I'll go out and find the person. But it's a very emotional rollercoaster as an entrepreneur. That may have been the best answer I've gotten so far from that question well, you know, it's not what happens to you, it's how you handle yeah what happens to you, and we, a lot of us, were dealing with that.
Speaker 2:Covid was a great example. Now we got through COVID a lot, but I mean it was like whoops seen this movie before yep, do this do this.
Speaker 2:don't do that. We were, were monitoring it and we managed through it. Well, we were being creative of how to deliver our services. The whole time, my mindset was this is a silver lining, it's not a cloud, and I couldn't even hang out with people that were. So, debbie Downers, it's like you are bringing me down. I'm going to find the silver lining. I got my son and his family from Charlotte back to Richmond and so you know you just just patience. You use that word. It is a virtue.
Speaker 1:Love it. Love it. Well, susan, this has been amazing. If you can shout out. If people want to learn more about your services, get in touch with the organization. How can they reach you guys?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, circle S Studio. Go to the website. You can click on the team. You can find me there. I'm also on LinkedIn. That's probably my most prolific place where I am sharing information. I just wrote a book. Does your Business Show Up or Stand Out? Oh nice.
Speaker 2:It's a short little playbook of what I've learned over my career, of the mistakes that I have made, so no need for anyone else to do it. But, also observing. I follow traits of the highest performing companies, and so why don't we all learn from the best? And so it's a fun quick read and it's pretty cheap. On Amazon, you can get a Kindle for a couple of dollars.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Well, I'm buying my copy as soon as we get off this episode. Again, appreciate you being here today. This was awesome.
Speaker 2:It's been awesome, thank you.
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