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You Can't Afford Me
Making the leap from employment to entrepreneurship can be a scary time. The biggest fear people have is the unknown. Here on the “You Can’t Afford Me Podast” we speak with hustlers and innovators on how to make the most of your journey. If you have questions we have answers.
You Can't Afford Me
Why A Nonprofit Newsroom Might Save Your City
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The daily paper used to be how we learned our city. Then the habits moved online, and a lot of essential coverage never made the jump. Michael Phillips, editor and founder of The Richmonder, joins us to share how a nonprofit newsroom is rebuilding local journalism with reader power, foundation support, and old-school reporting that shows up at City Hall, schools, and neighborhood meetings.
We dig into what a sustainable business model looks like when clicks aren’t the goal: three revenue streams, free access to keep the public square open, and a newsletter that turns casual scrollers into a loyal community. Michael breaks down why The Richmonder focuses on three pillars—city operations, education, and housing—and how that clarity helps avoid national noise, earn trust, and deliver stories you can actually use. From a school that spiked reading scores to the day a firefighter’s text helped confirm a citywide water outage, he explains how relationships and presence beat press releases every time.
We also talk formats that work now. Social media is for discovery; email is the engine; long-form reporting is the value. Video and podcasts humanize policy and carry half the audience, but the secret is flow: short pieces that point to depth, and depth that rewards your time. With AI shrinking the podium of links to a single “winner,” original, well-sourced local reporting matters more than ever.
If you care about where your tax dollars go, how your schools are doing, or which restaurant is worth a rare date night, this conversation will give you a blueprint for supporting or launching the kind of newsroom every city deserves. Subscribe to The Richmonder, reply with tips, and if the work helps you, consider donating so it can help your neighbors too. If this resonated, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a quick review so more people can find the show.
www.themrpreneur.com
Meet Michael And The Mission
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the You Can't Afford Me podcast, where we skip the fluff and dive straight into the grind. Real entrepreneurs, real struggles, and the unfiltered journey behind success. Let's get into it. Hey guys, thanks for joining us on another episode of the You Can't Afford Me Podcast. I've told you guys time and time again, big reason why I love doing these podcasts is because I get to meet interesting people that I haven't been connected to in other parts of my world. So I think a mutual friend of ours, Scott, connected us. And I honestly don't know a whole lot, so this is gonna be a great conversation. I love going into it a little blind. But today we got Michael on the podcast. Michael, how are you doing, buddy?
SPEAKER_00What's up? This is why I do what I do. I'm a journalist. I call people and ask them good questions. So I love digging into stuff.
SPEAKER_02And let's go ahead and get it out there. This guy has one of the most amazing radio voices you guys are ever gonna hear on this podcast. So lock in. I'm sure the people driving in their car right now are being soothed by your voice.
SPEAKER_00So don't hopefully won't put them to sleep.
SPEAKER_02So give us a quick rundown of who you are and what you do.
Building A Nonprofit News Model
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm Michael Phillips. Uh I'm the editor and founder of The Richmonder. Um so I worked for the newspaper, the Richmond Times Dispatch, for 16 years. Uh and do you get the newspaper? I do not. Nobody does anymore. It's a newspaper. It's a reality. Um, you know, and and we're kind of waking up to that reality that that is not how people get their news anymore. Uh and it's I was nothing personal. I love everybody over there, and I wish them success, and they're doing all sorts of other fun things over there. But this realization, like people aren't gonna get the newspaper anymore. That used to be the number one way. You learned about what was going on, you know. I mean, just all this box scores, like I'm a big baseball guy, I see the scores every night, the copyright. Buy a dresser or a bed, like you know, you buy go to the classifieds, all that's gone now. Um, you know, a lot of it's been replaced on the internet. Like I still get my sports scores, I still buy stuff off of Craigslist. Um, but one of the things we did at the newspaper was we told you what was going on around town. Uh who died, what what's going on at the meetings, what's happening at City Hall. Yep. Um and that didn't get replaced largely. Um and so we started, it's the Richmonder. Uh Richmonder.org's the website. It's a nonprofit. So we're a 501c3. And we tell people what that means is we figured out you can't make money doing this. Um that was the light bulb moment. Like, how are you gonna make money doing the news in 2026 now? And the answer is we're not. Um there there is no profit margin to be made. Like you know, the newspapers sold the ads, did the coupons, did the things. Yeah, we don't have those avenues available to us. But we think it's really important um that the community learn about what's going on. And so we got three reporters, uh, and myself, I'm the editor, and we you know tell the tell Richmond stories. Uh, excited to talk about that, how we do that, how we dig into that. Uh, and then we accept donations from readers. One of the things we do is we don't charge for the news. If you want to just come read the news on the site, it's free. That's part of our mission.
SPEAKER_01Nice.
SPEAKER_00Um, and what we were realizing, you know, was you know, it the news can't just be for people who can afford the news, it's for all of us. Good point. It's a community conversation. Uh, and so we invite everybody in, we pass the hat, we do the mm-mm-mm-m, you know, give it a little something to pay the salary, keep me going. Uh and uh we're we're having a lot of fun with it. We're a year and six months old now.
SPEAKER_02Nice, nice, that's awesome. So, but I want to get on your backstory, yeah. But let me pause right there at uh at a spot you just said. So the intent was straight going out we're not gonna get rich off of this. We just want to provide a service that gets information out to people, but you still gotta eat. Yes. So is there's because to me, attention is the new currency. So if you can command the attention of hundreds or thousands of people, there's value in that. So even though you're not set in this path like to get rich, how are you guys generating? Is it literally just by the donation piece? Like you have regular donors that come in and help you guys?
Social Media Reach Vs Owned Audience
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great question. So we got three revenue streams. So one of them is straight up donors, you know, people who foundations, uh the Robbins Foundation supports our work, you have groups like you know who work in the community and have a vested interest in the community, being healthy and strong, and you know, keep a you know, keep an i influence on, I'm thinking right now, big story affordable housing. We have somebody reporting on what can we do to make housing affordable? What you know, what are the what are things what things are people doing that are working? Yep. Um, what's not working, what do we need to be doing, right? So you have you have community groups that say that is valuable information to them and the things they do. Uh regular readers, um, we've got now over twelve hundred readers subscribe. Uh it starts at night starts at$9.99 a month. Um, you know, we get we kick little little extras to those people from time to time, right? Substack style. You know, give them a little extra for their money.
SPEAKER_02You say you've been open 12 months?
SPEAKER_00Uh 18 months, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say you almost average a new hundred uh followers every month.
SPEAKER_00We feel good about it. Uh we feel good about the response to it for sure, yeah. And so, you know, that's that's the community money, and we love that because it shows we think people like what we do, but you give me your credit card, yeah. Oh, you really like you really like what we do. Um and so you know, we want to build that and and show that support. And then third is old-fashioned sponsorships. Uh companies that, you know, we have a newsletter that goes out three times a week, um, you know, and and companies can sponsor that, put their messaging on that. Uh, very traditional media thing to do, of course.
SPEAKER_02And then I'm I'm sure there's some element of the social media piece in terms of like, are you dropping quick stories and tidbits there and driving people to the website? How are you guys doing that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so let's talk business for a second, right? Like, you know, we've had big hits on Instagram, um, not as much on TikTok. Um, we just don't do a ton of video yet, but yeah, you know, we're gonna get into that space. Uh Facebook has been good for us. Obviously, people share news on Facebook, that's a logical medium. Yep. But with the eye towards, so if I win the algorithm today and I get a million eyeballs, tomorrow I start at zero again. Yep. Um, that's a reality, right? Very good point. And, you know, people have made tons of money on YouTube and Instagram, and there's certainly ways to build a following and monetize that following. But making sure the things we do are, all right, so we've got your eyeballs, come check out the website, come check out the newsletter, come into our orbit, come see what we're all about. Try to, you know, okay, you you liked this, we do this every day. Uh so we're not at the mercy of like, will Instagram show you what we do tomorrow? But we're we're capturing you, the customer.
Michael’s Path To Richmond
SPEAKER_02Gotcha, gotcha. So let's go back in your story. First off, how did you even get into this industry?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I grew up in Wichita, Kansas, uh, not from Richmond originally.
SPEAKER_02That's why you're a Chiefs fan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what it had I for 30 years of my life. Because what football team do you work for? The Kansas City Chiefs is like, okay, you named one. Good for you. That's that's one of the last 10 years. Oh, I bet you do. You front run a bitch like Taylor Swift. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, Matt, it comes around for everybody. Like my Pittsburgh Steelers suck right now.
SPEAKER_00It will come around.
SPEAKER_02It's coming back around.
SPEAKER_00It will come back around. I love Mike Tomlin. That's my guy. But sometimes some Tom cyber change, Tim. All right, we we can pause right there.
SPEAKER_02That's pretty new stuff. All right. Here's my theory with Mike Tomlin. Number one, I told all my friends the Roonies will never fire their head coach, especially one that's been there 19 seasons. Agreed. This will have to be Tomlin's call. Now I'm sure there were some conversations in the back room, like, hey, Mike, we got to make some changes. This will be better if you just kind of bowed out. But then the Roonies had a press conference, and he was like, he's like, I was prepared, but I wasn't expecting Mike to do that.
SPEAKER_00So such an honorable way to do business, too. Which is really cool.
SPEAKER_02But also, number one, let's look at the accolades. And I don't mean to make this whole thing about, but you got me on it for a second. Hey, it's in the newsletter. We chat, we chat, man. That's what we do. So I look at it from the perspective of one, everybody's like, you know, this guy kept losing every time he got to the first round of the playoffs. Let's look at the quarterbacks and the teams that he drugged to the playoffs. We had Mitch Trubisky, we had Kenny Pickett, we had a 42-year-old quarterback, we had Jaden. Never a losing season. Dude, and never lost. Yeah. Like, and always having a winning season. Granted, I'm pissed off as a Steels fan to know that the script is already written. Hey, we're gonna go to the first round and get knocked out. This year I was actually pretty hopeful because I was like, guys like Cam, I would love to see get that ring before he retires, but I'm guessing he'll probably end up moving on too. But those are like if any other head coach had that kind of record in accolade, so every NFL team should be lined up to hire Mike Tomlin. I don't care if you currently have a head coach, unless you just hired him in the last 12 months, every team should be going after Mike Tomlin.
SPEAKER_00Bingo. So I'm a sports guy, so we're in my wheelhouse here. I moved to DC, I worked for the Washington Nationals for a year. Uh loved baseball, it was kind of a dream job situation. And I realized after all it was actually not a dream job. Uh they do they play baseball every night. You get home at 3 a.m. every night, you go back to work at 11 a.m. Like the baseball life is uh as a grinder's life. Um and I loved it, but it was also like, I have no social life, like yeah. Um so friends said we got an open at the Richmond Times Dispatch. I came down here. I'd never been to Richmond when I took the job here.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00Haven't left now. It's almost 20 years later.
SPEAKER_02What was your first impression of Richmond when you first moved here?
Starting Over And Reinventing Local News
SPEAKER_00I thought it was so Wichita, Kansas here, right? Like I thought I was in the big city. Big city. Right? Like everything's relative. Like I know we're always like, oh, we're not DC. Like, but you're not Wichita, Kansas either.
SPEAKER_02I'm moved from Lynchburg, Virginia, so Richmond to me was a big city.
SPEAKER_00It's the big city. Yeah. Um I live down in Chaco, and you know, it's I could walk to everything. I walked to work.
SPEAKER_02You got the experience of Richmond.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I loved it. Um grew on me. I haven't left. Um don't think I'm leaving now. Started a website called the Richmond, or I don't think that's very portable. Um there's a Richmond, California. That's one of the only other ones. We got an email the other day inviting us to cover something, and I didn't recognize the address. Richmond, United Kingdom.
SPEAKER_02I've gotten that one too. So I my first my very first business was Richmond Bubble Soccer. You put on those huge bubble suits and playable contact soccer. Of course. So we got emails from I think there's a Richmond, Texas. I think there's a Richmond, Canada. And we get people, hey, we need you guys here in like 72 hours. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can book, give me the address, and we're like, wait, you're in Canada. We're it's gonna cost you like 20 grand for me to come there and put this event on for you.
SPEAKER_00I think we're the preeminent Richmond. Yeah, oh for sure. I think they like I think they're all drafting in our way. Yeah, we're number one.
SPEAKER_02We got the initials, we got RVA, you don't hear that about it's not they may have been first in London, but I think we're best. Yeah, we made it better. We made it better. So what's your what's your view on Tomlin? Where do you think he's gonna end up?
SPEAKER_00I think he'll take a year off. And I was right move. Love for him to end up in DC with the commanders. Like, just get to see him every day, like him to make that new stadium, right? Like a little new energy. Yeah. Anybody would be lucky to have him. I mean, that's they should all be begging him.
SPEAKER_02I think it's gonna be the Andy Reed effect. When Andy Reid was a coach for the Eagles, he kept getting to the playoffs of McNair and those guys and couldn't close it. Second he gets to the Chiefs, boom, boom, boom, boom.
SPEAKER_00Bill Belichick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Browns, and then took off with the Patriots. I think that's the one. The second act, yeah. The second act.
SPEAKER_02The second act is coming. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, so you moved here.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I know everybody, we just took a tangent.
SPEAKER_00It's all good. This is this is what I did.
SPEAKER_02So you moved here from Wichita, came to the big city, worked at the new.
SPEAKER_00Let's go. Um, this was 2007, so this is right before there were no jobs available for anybody.
SPEAKER_02Wait, so what were you doing in Wichita before you moved here?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in school. Okay. University of Kansas. I'm a Jayhawk, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh oh, so straight out of college.
Staying Local And Avoiding Polarization
SPEAKER_00Straight out of college to here. And uh yeah, I worked at the newspaper, had a great time there for 17 years. Uh, was a sports writer, sports editor, something called senior editor, um, interim managing editor. Um I had lots of titles. I just did things. Um, we made things happen. It was it was really fun. And then you just spread my wings, and here we are with the Richmonder. And this realization, right? Like, I'm I'm 40 and I'm not gonna retire doing print newspaper things. Like that's just a reality of life, right? Like, there's you know, I imagine there's people who realize that a lot, like people who made records, like in a certain point, like, all right, we ain't gonna make records the rest of our life. We'll figure out what's next. Uh and this is I I believe this is what's next. Uh, you know, I talk to people and uh we're based on a group in Roanoke called Cardinal News. Uh, they've been doing this for six years now, uh, have had a ton of success out there. So I talk to the people out there, how'd you do it? What'd you do? Yep. Um Dwayne Yancey is the editor there. He's he's older than me, he's he's done this longer. He said, Michael, I've never been more excited about journalism, about news than doing this because it it sheds a lot of the the baggage. Like people have an a thought of what the media is or what you know what it is to be in the news. Uh, and it's an opportunity to reset that and reframe that. Uh that we can be, we're keeping an eye on City Hall. We're keeping an eye on what your elected officials do. And also, we're telling really cool stories from the community too. Uh we went into an elementary school uh where it used to be John B. Carey, now it's uh Lois Harrison Jones. They improved their reading scores dramatically year over year. So we went in like how are they doing that? What's what's the success story here? Um what can people learn from that? Uh, and telling those really cool stories from the community too.
SPEAKER_02Love it, love it. And no, let me ask that in a minute. Let's talk about that jump. Because to me, that is the most integral part in an entrepreneur story. First off, take us to the moment where this thought first came in your head, where it may not have been this particular business model, but you were just like, what I've been doing the last 15 to 17 years isn't where I see my life ending. What else is out there? What were the thoughts going through your head in terms of branching out?
SPEAKER_00And I am an involuntary entrepreneur. I always told people as I started, like, I'm starting the place I wish I could go work at. Like, but it didn't exist. So we got to start it. Um, you know, as public service, I guess. I don't know. Like, I that feels grandiose. But you're like, this thing needs to exist. Yep. I wish somebody would do it. Uh, and then it was a long time awaiting and nobody did it. So guess we're doing this thing. Um and you watching other people in other cities have success with this and use this business model, this nonprofit business model where you make the news available to the community, you focus exclusively on what's going on in your community. We don't do national news, we don't do blue team, we don't do red team.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00We don't do state politics, we don't walk up the hill to the General Assembly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We do Richmond. Uh and that's Richmond area, you know, other counties as well. But because of that, we can avoid a lot of, I think, what's toxic right now in media.
SPEAKER_02That's exactly what I was about to ask you. Do you feel like with this model, you're not you guys aren't influenced or jaded by one side or the other because of the position you're coming from?
SPEAKER_00I would just say like there's blue team and red team, and they've got their issues. Like, we all agree the potholes should be fixed. Yeah. Like, and they're annoying to drive. Yeah. We all agree we should have a good community with small businesses that are thriving, and and you know, a a restaurant scene that gets attention. Like, we all believe those things. And it makes easy trust, easy to gain, or easy hard to hard to gain, easy to lose. We're one article away from losing it at all times. I'm aware, like, we are laser focused on Richmond, Richmond, Richmond. Yeah. Because I think if we get caught up in the other stuff, I think it'll end really quickly for us.
Competitors Or Ecosystem Partners
SPEAKER_02Yep. No, I totally get that. And all right, so that transition from the full-time to launching your old thing, kind of walk us through that, like, and to kind of prep you for that. Like I was an accidental entrepreneur, but a little bit more directed where I was like, uh, because I started the bubble soccer business and I had a valet laundry service. Yeah. And I just saw myself, I was like, there's so much more I could be doing with these companies if I wasn't giving away 40 hours a week. So like during my lunch breaks, I was meeting with like the flying squirrels and VCU because they're like, we want to bring you guys in between innings and do X, Y, and Z. So like I didn't eat lunch for like six months because every lunch break I had was I'm setting up a meeting. Then I found out people typically won't meet past 7:30. So like as soon as five o'clock hit, I used to be that company man where it's like, hey, you guys go, I'll lock up, like, I'll make sure everything's safe. As soon as I launched these company, five o'clock came, boop, I'm gone. I got about two hours I can get meetings in before people tell me to shut it down. Um, so for you, that transition, and I walked into my boss's office and said, You can't afford me, which is why I named this podcast, You Can't Afford Me, which was a lie. You could afford me. I was broke. Uh, but it was just like I felt that passion tugging at me, and I didn't care what I had to go through to get to it, I was gonna do this. So for you, kind of break down your experience in terms of from thought to execution and what it was like making that transition from full time to your business.
SPEAKER_00That's so great to hear that because people are do you was there pressure, you know, like jumping off this ledge, I got a family, you know, I gotta be and like all those things are on my mind. The the pressure I felt the most was, you know, I've been in this local news scene here for so long, for 17 years, and this realization like we're doing this thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Coverage Pillars: City, Schools, Housing
SPEAKER_00And if it fails, they're not gonna be a second one. Because like somebody a few years from now is gonna be like, ah, I should start a local news site here. Ah, remember that guy, he did the thing, it didn't, you can't do it here, it doesn't work out. Like that the pressure is just delivering for the community and for the industry and for the people around me, um, which is really gratifying too to see, because I'm a journalist by trade, I love news, and like I see this problem. There's not enough local news, people aren't telling the stories of the city. Um to a to a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right? Like, this is a problem that needs journalism, right? Because I'm a journalist. Um to see other people be like, yeah, this is a need, and we will run alongside you and we will support this. Um more directly to the point though, like the team came together, and that that was the most. So, you know, I'm taking people to cope, and you know, like, hey, I'm thinking about this thing. What do you think about it? And I kind of had a you know, the mental checklist, like, it'd be cool to work with this person and this person. And um, first conversation I had, you know, first person like, yeah, how can I help? How can we do this? Uh says Blaine Leigh, he's our board chair. He's like, You gotta do this. This is amazing. Um, who do you want as a reporter? Like, I love Graham Moomah. He's like, I worked with him at the paper, I think he's really diligent, careful. Like, I think he's he's everything we want to stand for as a company. Yeah, um me at Starbucks, like, here's the idea I think I'm in. Like, this sounds like a great idea. Um Sarah Vogel song, right? Right by like, she's got this just incredible reputation in the community as somebody who's trustworthy and and you know, she's gonna tell you the facts uh of a story and keep an eye on things, she's in. And like I guess we gotta do this thing, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02Like the vengers have all assembled like a little trigger here.
SPEAKER_00You know, and if they had said no, that's a dumb idea, like we wouldn't be here chatting today, right? That's a reality. But hearing other people affirm, like, no, that is a good idea. Because part of the fear is I'm sure you had this with Bubble Soccer too, like, nobody does it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So is that because it's a bad idea? Or is it just that nobody's executed? Nobody's had the hustle and executed it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Before Steve Jobs created the iPhone, I guarantee you there were hundreds of other guys that came up with that concept, but he was the first to market it and execute it.
SPEAKER_00He nailed it, right? Like, well, am I doing something wrong because nobody else has done it? Yeah. No, you're blazing the trail. Um you're making it happen.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Formats That Win: Email And Video
SPEAKER_02So how have you felt in terms of, and I don't want to get political or anything on that end, but uh two things. I'll I'll go that route since you're the journalist route. This is what I've always thought. Um, I'll use Facebook as an example. So prior to Facebook going public and IPO, and I'd never invested in the stock market before. But you always hear growing up invest in the things that you know. And if there's anything I know, it's social media and Facebook. Sure. So I had set aside at this time, like I put like$1,500,000 to the side, and I'm like, I'm opening up a brokerage account tomorrow, I'm buying Facebook, da-da-da-da. And I did the worst possible thing I could have done at that moment. Something I had never done before. I turned on a channel that I didn't even know my remote could get to. I turned on CNN, uh, I think Mad Dog was on, and they were like, Don't invest in Facebook. It's the worst thing that ever comes. We don't know how this thing is making money, like, we don't know what it is. The worst thing you could do is put your money in this. So I listened to the experts and I didn't invest that initial money. At the time, I think Facebook IPO'd for like$38,$42, somewhere around there. And I was trading like$600 a share or something like that. So it burnt. I eventually got in, but I didn't get in as early as I should have. So from that moment on, I told myself I would never not trust my gut. But the reason I use that as an example is because I often feel the machines behind marketing, and I'm talking about the big brands, like your foxes and ones like that, they'll often feed the public false information to keep them from going a certain direction. So they'll say, Hey, don't invest in Facebook so that all the rich CEOs and billionaires and other millionaires can all load up on that while the general public is left with you know pie on their face. So, how do you feel in terms of the information in general that's given across um in the marketing field? And how are you guys changing that?
SPEAKER_00And it Facebook was an existential threat to their business, too. Yeah. Like, so they went, this thing, what we do is the thing.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Which is why Mark Zuckerberg's now sitting at the dinner table with Trump.
Long Form Still Works
SPEAKER_00That's not that's not gonna be the thing. Like, our thing's the thing. This thing isn't gonna be the thing, right? You know, everybody's looking out for their interests, their bottom line along the way. Um the the lack of trust in media is at an all-time high. Uh, that is a fact. That's not debatable. That's surveys, that's polls, people see that. Um, what is the solution to that is probably less yelling, uh, it's probably more conversation, it's less opinion-based, it's more fact-based. Yep. And I think I think just knowing people is I like in the abstract, it's very easy to demonize the other side, the other party, the other, the other people, uh, you know, whoever that the immigrants, whoever that might be. Um and I think if we stop and get to know them and hear their stories and find out their people and f like and just have these conversations, yeah. I think we're gonna be in a different space. As a s I think a lot of people are not interested in having those conversations. I think to go back to your point, I I'll give you the hot take right back. Like, I think The division has been very profitable for a lot of media companies.
SPEAKER_02For sure.
SPEAKER_00I think if we looked at Trump's election and subscriptions to news sites, they went up.
SPEAKER_02Chaos pays big dollars.
SPEAKER_00Chaos pays big dollars. Our number one day as a website in terms of people coming in was the day the water went out in Richmond. I'm not happy the water went out. My water went out. I want the water to never go out. But also, they needed us in that moment for information to guide them through that. Now that's a you know, that's a very different example than national politics. But uh you know people need information in times like that. And I think we all have an obligation, right? This is a time of crisis, you know, like I'm uncertain about this thing, what's going on? Like our obligation is to tell you what's going on, you be reassuring about it, be human about it, um, break it down as simple as possible, uh, and and earn that trust every day and not use that as an opportunity to push an agenda or push a cause or push a side. Yeah, that's when you get in trouble.
Growing Trust And Audience
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. Who do you see in the local market? Uh who's your biggest competitor? And let me follow that up with a two-parter. Um, and ask if you guys have content dealing with the business community here in Richmond. So one of the newsletters I immediately subscribed to as soon as I moved to Richmond and got into business was Richmondbusiness.com. Yeah. Yep. I get the info of like, because for me, I'm looking through it. I have my sales team reach out, like a new business pops up. Hey, we need to talk to that company before everybody else gets on them and talks about their marketing services. How can we jump in and get that meeting with them? So for me, that that is crucial being an entrepreneur in town because I just need to know what's going on in the panels that they put on in terms of like the development with like the city district and you know the diamond district and stuff like that. I need to be in the loop and in the know when it comes to those things. So, number one, who do you see as your biggest competitor? Um, and two, are you guys covering things in the business sector?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I I will answer the question, but also the answer to the question is interest in local news is really good for us. Um I think about like Fox airs the commander's game every Sunday, and ESPN talks about it all week. Fox doesn't view ESPN as a competitor in this space. By talking about it all week, more people watch it on Sundays. It raises the interest in everybody. If you read Bizense, if you read Axios, if you watch Channel 12, channel 8, channel 6, you are engaging in local news and are interested in local news, you are actually more likely to read my site, not less likely. Um, because you're in that ecosystem. You're interested in that. If you read a national outlet, if you read, you know, whatever it might be, if you listen to syndicated radio, you're less likely. Um so what's my competition? My competition is people not caring what goes on in their community. If if Axios thrives, if Styles thrives, if VPM thrives, that's really good for us.
How Reporters Get The Scoop
SPEAKER_02That's a very I never thought about it from that perspective. And it happened to us my with my first company, Richmond Bubble Soccer. Um a guy was on Shark Tank and he had the bubble suits. Yeah. And the best possible thing that could have happened, that guy fumbled the pitch. Like he was horrible. Like they were all interested in the business model itself, but that guy just had a horrible pitch, and they were like, We're not touching you with a 10-foot foot pole, dude. But that night, traffic to our website went bonkers because everybody's like, bubble soccer. I wonder if there's one local here to meet, and we were literally the only ones in town. Yeah. So like sales went through the roof because that got bombed on uh Shark Tank. So I get how something on the national level can affect what's happening here directly with you guys.
SPEAKER_00Hot new restaurant opens up across from your restaurant. It's probably gonna be good for you because people are coming there to eat. Like there's room for everybody at the table.
SPEAKER_02And they're like, oh, the wait is 45 minutes over here, but hey, that place looks good. Let's just go across the street. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we started, we we started from zero. Um we didn't start with a big, you know, like we don't have like$20 million in endowment, anything like that. So we have three reporters. Um they're focused on three things right now. One is politics, the smooth operating of the city, does the water work, what are they doing at City Hall? Two is education, uh, monster issue right now, obviously. Private schools, public schools, universities. VCU keeps expanding. Um Virginia State, Virginia Union. Um there's a lot going on in the education space. Uh and third is housing, and that's broad too.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Nobody can afford a house. Um, you know, what are we we're rezoning right now? That's a big story. So those are our three focus areas. We want to expand them more. Um, I also think like this is a hat tip to biz sense. I think there's they're really doing it well. Yeah. I think they're great. I think it would be silly for me to see all these unfilled needs in the community and be like, but I don't want to go compete with them. Yeah, yeah. Like they're doing it well. Um, and we're gonna lift them up as doing it well. Uh and we're gonna focus on these areas where I think nobody's doing it well right now.
SPEAKER_02You carve you carve your own little niche here when it gets to it.
Interns, Mentors, And Standards
SPEAKER_00Um and and part of being a nonprofit, we can have good relationships with those people, you know, and and that. Um I think Axios, the morning newsletter, um, I don't know if you get that or not. That's you know, it's short, it's quick, it's you know, it's very anti newspaper. Um, like it's you know, it's respects your time, like quick hits. Um, I think they've hacked into how people want to consume things in 2026. I think they do a great job of that format and of keeping people engaged and keeping like, you know, yeah, people don't have the time they used to have, respecting people's time. Yep, giving them that, you know, and I think they do a great job. And then you got yeah, I mentioned the newspaper, still great people working there. VPM, uh, which owns Style now, um, you know, and they're NPR, they're PBS, they're they're all over the place. They're doing a great job. Yeah, they're opening a new building downtown, which I love, because Broad Street's got to come back, man. Like that that's a big thing for the city. If you get Broad Street cranking again, like that would be just huge for the city to get that to take off, tear down the Coliseum, build something there, right? So I'm glad they're being a part of that. Yeah, but uh and then the TV stations, which you know is is trickier because we think of them immediately when we think of news, but they have the newspaper problem. Like, when's the last time you watch the 11 o'clock news? It's it's tough, and that's you know, they are moving to online, they are doing other things, and there's great people working there. Yeah, um, but the media is a big part of the message in in 2026.
The Five‑Year Vision And Impact
SPEAKER_02So who who's the d target demographic for you guys? Because when I think when I'm talking to a a client or potential client about our marketing services, I'm looking at it from the perspective of well, number one, we may not be the best fit for you. I don't know if we have what you need. It depends on who you're trying to reach. So you have ones where like uh let's call them like your app ambulance chaser law firms. Um they're going after the people that have free basic cable and that are home watching Maury Povich at 10 o'clock on a Tuesday. Um, I will never see that ad because I'm here at the office working when those things are on TV. Um, so that's not to say that local TV ads are not the move. It is, depending on what business you're in. Um, majority of clients that we work with, I wouldn't necessarily recommend billboards, but there are some businesses where I feel billboards do really well. Sure. Direct mailers. I know a gym owner who has this down to a science where like he knows if he goes one more block over, the ROI is almost zero. He knows that there is a certain parameter in which people are willing to drive to get a workout and drive back home. They're not gonna drive 30 minutes to go work out, drive 30 minutes back home, take a shower, and then go to work. That's almost two hours of their day just in commuting. Um, so for you guys, where do you see like the medium changing here? Because quite honestly, majority of my news does come from social media. Like when something breaks, whether it's sports, like I I learned Mike Town, the guy can on Facebook, or that he left. Yep. Um, or that ICE was in Richmond the other day. Like I'm not sitting at home on CNN, MSNBC watching these things. So as you guys continue to grow and move forward, what are the other mediums where you see really really people getting their story? I have a theory of where it's going, but I want to hear what you think.
How To Launch In Your City
SPEAKER_00And video is like you would have said, you know, if we were doing this five five years ago, you'd be like, oh, video, it's an emerging trend. Like it is a reality now. Like, you know, if you're gonna escape it. If you have a podcast and you don't have a video, what are you doing right now this year?
SPEAKER_0251% of people that engage with the podcast are watching the video. Yeah. So if you don't have a video component, you've cut off half your audience.
SPEAKER_00That is how people consume that these days. So you we are a more visual society and a more visual medium. Our email is still really popular, um, which I love seeing too, because I also think like there's the stories you know you need, and the stories you know like you are interested in. I think we can also give you, like, in that email, like, and here's some stories you didn't know you were interested in, but are cool. Um, you know, here's a you know, surprise and delight, right, would be the thing. Like, we did a story about uh neon signs the other day. Like you wouldn't know you need a story about neon signs, but you should be like, oh that all right, that's cool. Um let me pause right there for a second.
Lowest Lows, Lessons, Next Steps
SPEAKER_02Newsletters, I think, are such an underrated form of marketing, people have no idea. Yeah. And I'm speaking to myself a little bit here because I've let our newsletter kind of fall to the side, and we just brought it on a new intern who's gonna revive that for us. But you think about it, we're all fighting for the same eyeballs on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all these things. How many people actually have someone's email address?
SPEAKER_00Few and far between. You own that connection. Yes. Is a direct you are not reliant on the algorithm, you are not reliant on them turning on the TV at a certain time. Yep. You own those eyeballs. Uh, and they trust you with them too, right? The unsubscribe button is real big at the top, Google puts it up there, right? Like you gotta earn that trust every day and you gotta go to work for that every day, and we do. Uh, but I just think there's nothing more valuable than all right, and we can tell longer form stories, right? You know, you think about your newsletter, like if you know the person's got the last 10 newsletters, you don't have to start with, and here's what I do, and here's my story. We're in a deeper spot in the relationship. We can we can grow it a little bit more, which is which is exciting.
Subscribe, Donate, Get Involved
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So for me, I'm gonna give you my answer to the question that I asked you. Um I think it's podcasting. So I recently started and I listen to there are probably 10 to 20 podcasts a week that I listen to to various shows. Some of that is like just me getting a fix of entertainment with my crime junkie podcast. But uh like recently, the Wall Street Journals podcast, I've been consistently listening to that over the last six months because it's like quick bite-size information during my commute. I can get fully up to speed on what's going on in this sector and what's happening there. So I think more and more um we're now leaning towards because you look at the devices like you know, your Google Homes and Alexa's and Siri's talking to you. Now we can have full conversations with Chat GPT. Like the audio piece, I think, is only getting bigger and bigger. And obviously, I don't want to say radio is dead, but it's it's not growing at the pace that it used to. The on-demand capabilities with podcasting where people can search a specific topic, find you, but also feel like the relationship is built a lot better through podcasting because as we're sitting here having this conversation, someone's listening right now that didn't know me and didn't know you, and they're getting to learn all these different things. They know where you grew up, they know who your favorite football teams are. We got connection. Yeah, all that. So I'd love to get your opinion on that with podcasting. Where do you see that kind of going for your space?
SPEAKER_00And for news, trust is everything, right? Like, it's not, you know, here is the news, the evening news, like from on high. Like, oh, that's Michael. He he likes the Kansas City Chiefs, he lives in my neighborhood, he goes for a walk in Forestill Park. Like, you know, okay, he went to that meeting. I could dress, you know, and that's uh you know, for our reporters, it is so important that they be seen places, um, that they go out in the community and we go talk to people. Uh when the snap benefits thing happened, yeah. We went out to the food bank to the food line and we talked to people. What's your story? What's going on? Right? Like, because it's very easy to be like, snap benefits cut tonight, you know. Oh, what's the administration gonna do? Like, okay, humanize it. Yeah. Tell me a person's story. I was about to say you're getting the stories. You know, tell give me the story, make it hit home for me. Um, and I think when people see that, they connect with that more. Yeah, um, and it's it's more real for them. I'm glad you mentioned search because I think AI is changing the game in that space. Whereas you think about it, if you had Googled Pittsburgh Steelers, um, you know, like you're getting six or seven news results, you can pick the one you like, like we're trying to write a good headline that draws you. In AI world, if you guys are what's going on with the Pittsburgh Steelers, there's one winner. Like it has picked one source and it is serving it to you in that moment. Like it's you know, it used to be you could be on the podium. Like if I was third best on Google, that was fine. Oh, you're going great. Like, hey, bubble soccer enrichment. If I'm top three, somebody's gonna see me, somebody's gonna click on me. In AI World, who does bubble soccer enrichment? It's probably coming back with one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Call this person. Like, there's no podium anymore. There's gold. Yeah. And everybody else.
SPEAKER_02That's a very good point. That's a really good point. So on the social media side, like I'm I'm intrigued in terms of the content, because I'm glad you mentioned one word specifically stories. To me, whether it's news, marketing, whatever it is, like people are intrigued with stories. And actually, let me double back on this. How do you feel about because you kind of touched on this, long-form consumption versus short form consumption? Now, I I tell people this all the time we've been conditioned to believe that our attention spans are now the size of a goldfish and we can only consume 60-second videos at a time. But I always use the example with people like think of the last movie that you went to the theater and saw. What got you there? It was a trailer. What's a trailer? Trailer is a 60-second version of a two-hour-long piece of content. But you still pay your 15 bucks, you pay another 15 bucks in your concessions and your popcorn and your sodas, and you sit there for$30 for two hours and you consume a piece of content. So long form content is not dead whatsoever. So, from your end, yeah, the the news articles, the newsletters, things like that that you guys are putting out, what are the trends you're seeing in terms of the consumers? Are they spending more time on the longer form content, more time on the shorter form, or a mix of the both?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a mix, and I couldn't agree with you more. Long form is very much alive. And you think about you know, there are YouTube videos that are 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour. Three hours. Three hours.
SPEAKER_02I'll watch the pivot podcast, the interview is like two hours long, and I'll watch the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Podcasts can be an hour and a half, and people stick with them and engage with them. Netflix did the thing where it's like they told the show writers like you have to have really dumb plots because people be on their phone while they they're disrespecting the audience. I think there's a there's an audience that just wants to chill and veg. I get that. Uh, but I think there's an audience that wants to dig in and be engaged and build community around their interests and around whatever's going on as well. We we have to continue to offer that long-form content. I I think that differentiates us, that we have quality long-form content. Um that you know, if you need the quick hit, we got the newsletter. Um, you know, the newsletter gives about one, two paragraphs to every news story of the day. Um, but I think we always need to make it. And I think our click-through rate in the newsletter right now, it's north of 10%. Um yeah, and and it's really good. And I think that's because over time we've told people all right, if you enjoyed that blurb, if you got a minute, dig in with us. We're gonna make it worth your time. We didn't throw a bunch of words on the page just to throw words on the page. Like we are gonna teach you, we're gonna go deep on this, you're going to feel smarter afterward. You're gonna be able to go to Happy Hour tonight and be like, let me tell you this thing I learned. This is really cool. Uh, you know, I think I think it's disrespectful to the audience to say they don't want long form. I think you're just saying you're bad at long form.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh, that's a good that's a bar right there. That's a bar. How do you guys grow from here? So that's pretty impressive. Within, you know, less than two years, you guys have built a subscriber base at that level. Um let me ask you first, how did you grow it to the point that you've gotten it to? What were you guys doing in order to get the attention?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's you know, there are no shortcuts, unfortunately. I wish there were. The water crisis was honestly our only shortcut um in terms of just people, but people are sharing us that week. Like, I've been reading this thing, you could go check this thing out. These guys told me before the city told me, um, right? Like what's going on. So inside that, you know, that that was probably our only uh everything else has been steady and just be in there. Like so much of you know, the media, and I'm tuned out, I don't, I don't do news, is just they don't feel it represents them or who they are. And so if they see me, hopefully on this podcast, if they see me speaking to a group, I've been I've talked to Rotary Club, Lion Club, Book Club, uh Women's Club, like you you name it, I'll be there. I'll go, I'll go share my message here. Like knowing what happens in your community is so important. And you there are places where decisions are being made that impact your life that nobody's sitting in that room keeping an eye on them. And if you never read a story we do about city council, I hope you do, I think they're good. But if you never read a story where we're in the room when the city deliberates on things, I think you're better off for us existing because we sat in the room and people behave differently when they're being watched. And we sat in the room and watched them make the decision. We didn't put our thumb on the scale, we didn't try to tell them what to do. Yeah, we just said, we're gonna watch what happens, and we're gonna tell people what happened.
SPEAKER_02Love that.
SPEAKER_00Simple proposition. We're your eyes and ears in the room. Yeah, we represent you. Uh, and you you can't afford to not have that.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. Let me uh this is honestly a selfish question. I've always wondered this. How did journalists get this information before anybody else? Is it is it purely like you use the example of like uh the water crisis in Richmond, saying that some of your viewers and readers got that information before they saw it on the local news? Yep. Is it just straight relationship building and it's like, are you like Adam Schefter with the Blackberry, and like the coaches are calling you before they call ESPN? How do you guys get that information before everybody else?
SPEAKER_00And Adam Schefter is a connector, so he's he's not a parasite in this relationship. He's not taking, he's also giving. So if you run the Pittsburgh Steelers and you need a wide receiver, you can text Adam Schefter and be like, hey, any teams are trying to like move a wide receiver, and like he'll he'll hit you, like he'll connect you, like, oh, I I heard, you know, whoever's unhappy where they are, right? Like, you know, go talk to that general manager. Like, and now when that if that happens, who's gonna get that scoop?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00That oh absolutely that's that's a two-way street right now. Um, water crisis, firefighter texted us um, who was they had just been briefed, like the water pressure's down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they, you know, and I got a text from somebody, it was, what's up? Like, we were told there's no water pressure, what's up? Um, and so we start poking around with text people, and yeah, you know when people go quiet, that's when you know something's up, right? Like, you know, call people and like what's going on? I can't talk right now. Like, oh okay, well, now I really got to know what's going on. You know, and you dig in on that, but yeah, it it's relationships, it's trust.
SPEAKER_02Um What incentivizes that firefighter to reach out to you and say, Hey, I just got this information, I need to text Michael. Is it purely the the relationship and the rapport you've built with them? Or are they like, hey, this is my source to get this out to the world? I I need everybody in the world. Well, the first one was a question.
SPEAKER_00We were told the water pressure is going down. What's up? Like the first one is a question to me. Like, you know things, you know what's going on.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00Tell me what's going on. Well, I don't know what's going on, so I'm gonna, you know.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00But maybe I know somebody they don't know, right? Like maybe I got somebody in the DPU office, right? I'm gonna text them what's going on, or something's going on, you know, and now we're we're piecing things together all the way around. Um, some of it is just that's a very high-stakes example, obviously. Um but but then you know, in lower stakes examples, like people want their news out at a certain time or in a certain way, or you know, like you know, want somebody who they can trust to put that story out there. We've dealt with really sensitive, delicate stories, um, and they trust us, like because they've got that relationship with us, like they'll be fair to this. Like, you know, this is gonna be a story. We trust you guys to ask the right questions to be fair with you. Gotcha. Which is really w rewarding, obviously.
SPEAKER_02All right. So if somebody's listening to this right now and they're like, And we're nosy.
SPEAKER_00I ducked in in the first answer. We're incredibly nosy. Here's what's fun about being a journal. Like I could go like I took a tour of the water plant the other day. And like, like people can't just go take a tour of the water plant, like that's not available. I could what's that? What's that button do? What's that like but I could do it because I'm a journalist. Yep. I love that. That's that's that's cool about this.
SPEAKER_02We have a I still have a theory I want to test out. Um where I'll never forget, it was one time I'm not really out in the field like I used to be anymore, but like when I was doing a lot of the videography here, I'll never forget there was one time we were set to shoot this Gala event for a local nonprofit. Unbeknownst to me, there's actually a same-level event going on right across the street. So I end up walking in the wrong building, I'm just like, hey, I'm staying with Enzo, like we're here to film today. And the people at the front desk, like it was like there's like 250 bucks a ticket or something. They're like, oh yeah, you got the equipment? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just go in. And then I get in and I'm calling the client, and I'm like, this doesn't look right. They're like, no, no, no, no, we're across the street, da-da-da. So I ended up walking across the street and getting there. But I'm like, I have a sneaky suspicion that if I just walk around with camera gear and be like, yeah, I'm the guy. And I remember some guys went viral for it. Uh, they dress up as construction workers and just go into random buildings with like a ladder or something. They're like, Yeah, John sent us, we got to fix the thing. And everybody's like, Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just go in. Because you want to make a scene. Yeah. Nobody wants to be the guy that makes a scene. I'd like to see your credentials. Like, nobody wants to be that guy.
SPEAKER_02That that is a very valid point. Let me ask you this. Five years from now, what does this all look like? Where do you want the subscribers to be? Give me the full picture of that.
SPEAKER_00Something goes on in Richmond, you go to the Richmonder because you know we'll tell you what it is. Um, and you go come to the Richmonder because you know we'll tell you stories you didn't know you needed as well. We'll keep our we'll keep our eyes and ears on the ground. We will tell stories that represent everybody, um, not just the advertisers, not just the people who pay for subscriptions. But we're in the nine districts in Richmond. I want to be in all nine telling stories all the time. Uh I want to lift up everybody's voices in Richmond, and and I want to make sure that we are representative of the community, telling its stories, and that we're trusted to be the place where you go for information, for local news, for what's going on. What should I do this week? Like, you think about like low stakes decisions or actually high stakes decisions. I got two kids. Do you know how expensive a babysitter is? A babysitter is stupid expensive, all right? And it's hard to line one up, and it's hard to get a night where I'm free, my wife's free, and we get the babysitter on there and we're spending all the time. Me and my wife get a date night ever three weeks. We're gonna go have a$200 dinner somewhere. The babysitter's gonna cost money. Like, where should I go to eat is actually an incredibly high pressure question. Because if you miss, like it's like three months until you get to do this again. Like you gotta like, where can I go that I know I'm gonna have a good time? Uh and you know, right? We can play a role in that. Like, hey, we're we're checking out. Here are the things people like, here, you know, more than just reviews. Like, here's a person who, you know, here's his here's his or her taste, here's what they like.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I got some connects for you, man. As you're talking, I'm like, man, I got a connection with so-and-so, I gotta tell them about this.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, what's what's going on in my city? Where where's my money? Like, uh, you know, good journalism principle is follow the money, right? Like, we pay tax money.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Where's it go? What's it do? Um, and if I can educate you on that, I think we're all better off as a city.
SPEAKER_02Love it, love it. Um That's what all right, let me go back to this question, then we're gonna wrap up here shortly. Um, someone's listening to this right now, and they live in Houston, Texas. And Houston doesn't have a service like this. What are the first three things you would tell someone if they want to start a model similar to yours?
SPEAKER_00What's really cool is I've had a few people call already. Like, I'm thinking about doing this. Like, you it what's cool is one of the things, you know, one of the reasons we became a nonprofit was the path to making money is to franchise it, right? Like we start the Richmond or and we go franchise into the Houston or the you know, all all the all the spaces.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00The secret sauce is we're here in the community. And I can't duplicate that, I can't franchise that. So it's a very friendly community because I don't see anybody in Houston as a threat to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And in fact, we're not a threat to them because we can't go do what they do, because they're boots on the ground there. Uh listen. Ask the community, what do you want? What do you need? Where are the stories that are going untold? Um, be be there, boots on the ground, um, be at meetings, be at you know, coffee shops, be at places where people are talking and get their opinions. And then number three is I I think one of our big, big things is we've just worked really meticulously hard to keep trust and not be opinionated and clickbaity and all those things. And and you know, that's that's a slow game, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00I could turbocharge our growth today. Yeah, I could bring in a hundred new subscribers today by saying certain words and doing certain things, yeah, and that will kill me in the long run.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um so grow grow sustainably and be in it for the long haul.
SPEAKER_02Love that thought process. Um this is a question I started asking last season on my podcast, and I want to carry it into this new year. Um describe to us your lowest moment as an entrepreneur and how you overcame that.
SPEAKER_00Ooh, that is because we've had moments where, you know, like, oh, we think we're gonna get this money, we think we're gonna get this grant, and then you don't, and it's like you're like, how am I gonna forward groceries next week? You know, we don't, you know, over time hopefully we'll build up a financial cushion. Um but we've brought$730,000 into the business and we've pretty much spent all of it. Um because that's what you do when you're young, right? Like every every day is reinvesting back into reinvesting, growing. And there's a time where we will stop. Oh, yeah. And we will grow and we will build a cushion. Like, I'm not an idiot. But right now we're hot and we're growing, and and we want to capitalize on that growth and momentum. We want to add a reporter this year um who goes out out of city limits, uh, does regional things in the counties, which I think is an incredible opportunity to bring more people into the fold and more voices into the fold. Um, but no, low low moments, and you know, like I I think back just as a journalist, there are times where like, you know, you don't get a story exactly right, or you you feel somebody's put their trust in you to tell a story, and then they call disappointed, like, oh, like, you know, I thought you're gonna do better than this. It's like, oh, yeah, like that's really like we don't hit the mark 100% of the time. Yeah. I think we have to be honest and human about that. Like, I think there's this notion of like the media like screws things up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I want to refute that. Like, we're not out there to screw things up, but sometimes we do accidentally. Uh and just like any other industry. And we're committed to making it right when we do. And I think that's it. We're not, oh you know, we're the newspaper, we can say whatever we want to say. Like, you know, we're the we're the Richmonder. Don't come at us. Like, but just be in taking that posture of humility of like, yep, how can we do better next time? Um, what can we do better? And how can we grow as a result of this?
SPEAKER_02Love that. Um, I lied. I got one more thing because the thought came to my head. Do you guys take on interns? Because I'm thinking the relationship between you guys and VCU, the amount of journalists that are or kids that are major in journalists.
SPEAKER_00You got me rolling again too now. Because part of it is so you know, at the newspaper, there are people who've been there forever. Um, and then the entry level salary is so low. We got a lot of kids coming out of school, but then they kind of phase out. They do the like, all right, I gotta go get a real job.
SPEAKER_02Chicago.
SPEAKER_00Gotta go get a real job now. Um, you know, and and part of that is just rebuilding that core of like there are kids who want to be journalists, who want to do local news, who just don't have mentors, who don't like you know, and part of this is remote work too. Like so many places now just do remote work. We have uh an office building downtown, which I think is huge because they can come sit and watch other people work. That's how I became better as a journalist. It's like I have a college degree, is not worth crap compared to I sat in the newsroom at the Richmond Times Dispatch, and I listened to experienced reporters make phone calls, handle sensitive situations, debate sensitive situations, go get documents from the courthouse. Um, like uh, can I tag along with you? Can I learn how that works? Like, yes, so we have an internship program. We took two interns last summer. I was super pumped about that. I want to expand that. I want to do spring, fall. Um, I've talked to VCU, I've talked at Richmond, Virginia Union, Randolph Macon. Um, you send me an email, I'll send you an email back. Um I truly believe like, you know, part of response, it'd be like, oh, you know, these kids are trying to make TikTok videos. Like, I disagree. I think you can make TikTok videos up to incredible journalistic standards. Oh, I think that's true. I think there are podcasts out there that have incredible journalistic standards. Absolutely. Just because you're in a new medium doesn't mean you can't follow, you can't be principled in in what you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and a lot of the people that are coming from the mainstream are now switching over to podcasting and TikTok and all those other things.
SPEAKER_00So it's it's not below, it's it's how you decide to do it. Anytime I talk to a journalism class, I tell them like the speakers are going to come in here and say there are no jobs in journalism. And unfortunately, I'm here to tell you they're right. Like, if if if there's 14 people in the room, two or three of you are gonna end up in a journalism career. Like the numbers are really it's NBA style numbers, like, and people don't give up these jobs when they got them. Like, you can't have my job. It's it's it's a good one. Uh Riley, it's it's you know, it's tough to break into the industry. But the skills you learn getting a journalism degree, talking to people, communicating succinctly, taking a long story, making it a short one, capturing people's attention. I'll promise that's gonna work for you, whatever you do in your life.
SPEAKER_02Thousand percent. Dude, this is awesome. I want to cut the cameras off because I got a lot of stuff I want to talk to you about on camera. Uh, if people want more information, they want to get an internship, they want to join your newsletter, they want to get the news, right here, local to Richmond, where can they find you guys?
SPEAKER_00Uh, Richmonder.org is the website. We're on all the social medias as well. Uh, but Richmonder.org, there's a little box you can put in your email. We send it three times a week. Uh, we try not to overload people. We don't sell your email, we don't do any of that stuff. Uh, so subscribe to the newsletter and uh enjoy what we got. And the newsletter, if you hit reply, it comes straight to me. Let me know what you think about it.
SPEAKER_02Love it, love it. I would highly encourage you guys. Uh as soon as we're done with this interview, I'm going to subscribe. Uh, this sounds like information we all need if we're in the Richmond area. So you guys go support if you like it. Put that little donation in the little platform there. Keep this thing going. Michael, appreciate you being on the show today.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And we'll see you guys on the next episode.