You Can't Afford Me
Making the leap from employment to entrepreneurship can be a scary time. The biggest fear people have is the unknown. Here on the “You Can’t Afford Me Podast” we speak with hustlers and innovators on how to make the most of your journey. If you have questions we have answers.
You Can't Afford Me
You Can Build A Music Career Without A Major Label
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A 79 cent royalty check can either crush you or clarify the game. We’re joined by producer and songwriter Alex Mack (Easy Alex Mac), who went from a small town in Blackstone, Virginia to building a fast-growing career by treating music like both art and business, even while working a full-time IT job for years.
We talk about the real grind behind “overnight” growth: staying consistent after college, building a catalog before the money shows up, and what it feels like when coworkers recognize your music in the office. Alex breaks down the music industry realities most artists learn too late, including why music royalties can be shockingly small at first, why owning your masters matters, and the contract red flags that can cost you your name, your likeness, and your future. He also shares the three deal principles he looks for, including having an exit plan so you’re never stuck when the people who believed in you disappear.
Then we shift into personal branding and social media strategy for musicians. Alex explains how he used Instagram as a resume, why community beats follower count, and how replying to comments and DMs helped create real fans who literally drove hours to see a small show. We also get into brand deals, engagement, content shoots, staying organized with a calendar, and what a normal workday looks like when you’re gearing up for an album.
If you’re an independent artist, a creative entrepreneur, or someone sitting on music you haven’t released yet, this one is a push to start, learn the basics, and protect your work. Subscribe, share this with an artist friend, and leave us a review with the smartest contract question you’ve got.
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Let's get afflict and three real freeway real struggle and the unfiltered journey. Let's get into it.
Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_00Hey guys, thanks for joining us on another episode of the You Can't Afford Me podcast. Guys, we got music royalty, RB royalty is in the podcast phase today. And then me and this brother have we've worked together on a couple different projects. Um and as soon as I met him, this is like one of those guys, like you meet him and you're like, man, something special with this dude. He he got something going on. He's gonna continue to blow up. And every time I open up my Instagram or Facebook, he's doing something major. Um, so I want to introduce you guys to Alex. How you doing today, buddy?
SPEAKER_02Great, man. What about you?
SPEAKER_00Uh, doing good, man. Just trying to make a million bucks and stay out the way, dude. That's all I'm doing. Hey, hey, same. So give it for those who don't know you, give everybody a quick 60-second rundown of who you are and what you do.
Small Town Roots And Sound
SPEAKER_02Man, well, uh, I am a kid from Blackstone VA originally, town like 3,000 people. Uh dad's dad's a pastor. Yeah, we're gonna share that in comments in case. You already know. Uh and then my mom was a chemist. Now she's a speech path, a speech pathologist. She's a career student, she loves learning and everything like that. So um, yeah, grew up, started playing the keys at about six years old, and uh started producing at 14. Nice, and then I started taking this whole thing seriously, probably uh like the summer after I graduated from college. And I was like, you know, I have the time to actually do this and everything like that. And here we are producer, songwriter, all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_00Love it. So I had a coming out of college, and and tell everybody like the type of music that that you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh I I always say that my music is like a mix of jazz, hip hop, and soul. Uh, but it's pretty much like I pull from the best of all of the black music, you know, that we make. So um I can appreciate and find the art in any music. And so I pretty much pull from everything that I just like and create what I wish existed.
SPEAKER_00Love it. Love it. So where where'd you go to college at?
SPEAKER_02I went to Radford University.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. You stayed, you stayed in the area.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then immediately after college, you made the decision that this is what you
Post Grad Hustle With A Day Job
SPEAKER_00wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02Well, I feel like uh the post-grad struggle made the decision for me because you know, I couldn't really find a job straight out of school.
SPEAKER_00What were you majoring in in school?
SPEAKER_02Um, media production, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um actually did something in related fields, which is rare for most people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, yeah, so you know, I it had been like, man, maybe like five months I had been graduated, and um I started working at Guitar Center. I started working there on accident, actually. Like I was walked in with my dad. I was showing him some keyboard in the manager walk by. He's like, hey, do you do you want to work here? And I was like, sure. You know, I'll take it. Um, and yeah, man, from like then then on, I got all types of discounts on the equipment and stuff in there, and I was able to put put my studio together. Um, and yeah, I was like, you know, why not just do this and go full force? And I made a promise to myself that I was not gonna stop, I was gonna be consistent with it, and I was just gonna go just full force into it.
SPEAKER_00So talk all right, talk about how you've have you been able to survive during that time. Because from from my perspective, I mean I've I've known you less than a year, so I'm I'm learning a lot about you today during this conversation. Yeah, um, but a brother still gotta eat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how did you make ends meet during that time?
SPEAKER_02Man, like you I actually had a day job, like until last year. Like actually, um, I worked in IT um for man, like five and a half years.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I worked in IT for like five and a half years while balancing everything else while it was growing. So you you know, a lot of that is like going to work, dealing with everything there, getting off work, and no matter how you feel, you have to go and do everything that you still have to do to make the music what it is, you know? And that goes for whatever your dream is or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, work nine to five for somebody else and work five to nine for yourself. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And that's 24-7 too. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like whatever you have to. There were times where, you know, I had to handle something at work for music, you know what I'm saying? Like whether it be like with my catalog, I get a call, it's like, hey, you need to go post this right now or like whatever. Like, yeah. So um, yeah, man. Like, I had a day job like all the way up until like the beginning of last year.
SPEAKER_00So talk about that, because with so we're both creatives, just in different sectors.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_00But when I got the entrepreneurial bug and I started building businesses on the side, yeah, it was ripping my soul out of my body having to go work for this other job. Oh man. I could not wait to till five o'clock came and I could get out there and actually focus on what I want to do. So talk about what that was like for you working in IT. IT is the complete opposite of what you do now. For sure. So talk about having all this music and ideas and things going on, and you still sitting there having to click on the keyboard.
Getting Recognized In The Office
SPEAKER_02Man, like what the crazy thing is, is like I was in the office being recognized by people, which has a whole other level. Man, I remember my my last job the very first day I started. Yeah, I there is a cafe where you can go and get your breakfast, lunch. Yeah. I went in to get breakfast and grab something, and I'm in line, and I hear, no way, and I look behind me. And it's this guy, he's like, yo, I was just listening to, I was just listening to you in the car, like blah, blah, blah. I was like, dang, okay, like that's crazy. And then as like time went on, more people found out and everything like that.
SPEAKER_00Um, what did you take from that one moment? Because I remember the first time like someone called me out that I didn't know personally, like, man, I've been seeing you all over social media. What did that do for you? Because for me, yeah, at the time, like, you know, I was still struggling trying to build my empire.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it solidified to me what I was doing. It's like, oh, okay, I'm actually making a dent in this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like to me, it showed, it showed me that like no matter where you are, you don't know who's actually inspired by what you're making. Um, like it always amazes me, it still amazes me, you know. Like, I I don't think the feeling ever gets old or you get used to it. Yeah. Like that, like people really connect with like what you're doing, especially, especially at work. Yeah. You know, like somebody you've never seen before, you know? Um, and yeah, like that kept happening. Um, and as more people started to find out, um, most people were cool though, you know, like you'll you'll really find like if you if you put something out into the world that like a lot of people like and things like that, like people, people are very helpful. Like people are very helpful, especially when they see something inside you that they want to do.
SPEAKER_001000%.
SPEAKER_02Like, um, because a lot of people at your day job have other things that they want to do. Yeah. You know, they have other things that they want to do, they have passions outside of work and everything like that. Um, so it was it was dope to see that, like, uh, first and foremost, that you know, I always love meeting like supporters. Like, I always love like actually meeting them in person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but it was it was off-putting to see that, like to experience that like actually in the office.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02For
Royalties Reality And Owning Music
SPEAKER_02sure.
SPEAKER_00And talk about that, the grind of it, because I feel, and I'm this is just I've interviewed certain people in the music industry, yeah. And just as a fan, what I've seen from afar, it seems like probably one of the, when I when I say this, yeah, I don't mean the individuals themselves, but it's probably one of the dirtiest businesses in terms of like you can get screwed left, right, up, down. Yeah. Uh like how much I remember Snoop Dogg saying, I think when uh when Spotify and streaming and all that got big, obviously Snoop Dogg's one of the biggest artists in the world. Yeah. Um and he was saying something like, man, he had like a hundred million streams and he had a check for like 40 G's or something from Spotify. It's like something dumb.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So talk about like the struggle as you're like building your catalog and you're doing all this stuff. Like, yeah, how is it like coming up in the music industry?
SPEAKER_02It is, um, I always tell people, like, honestly, you have a lot of your fun when you're oblivious to like all the other like politics and like the business side of it. You know, I remember doing shows in somebody's backyard having a ball, like, you know. Um obviously it's a little more fun when you start making money, you know. Like obviously that part is cool, but like you have to get there though. Yeah, you know, you have to get there to the point where you are making a little bit of money. Like, um, so I remember my first royalty royalty check was probably like I got like 79 cents. I saw 79 cents coming. I was like, yo, like, but that let me know like it was possible, but it also let me know the the importance of like actually owning owning your music, actually. Because if I didn't, that 79 cents would be going to somebody else before it was even sent to me.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Um understanding if you don't understand the business as an artist and understand what you need to look out for, especially in contracts and things like that, what you need to ask for. Um, and even if you don't go into a situation asking yourself, okay, what do I want out of this? And what do they want from me out of this? Like, there are so it's a different way of thinking. The music and the music business are two totally different things. And if you don't know that, yeah, you're definitely leaving yourself uh out out there to hang to hang
Contract Red Flags And Exit Plans
SPEAKER_02to dry.
SPEAKER_00So give give us your top three things, because there are probably gonna be some musicians and artists listening to this episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What are the top three things they need to look out for when they're putting a deal? Andor how was your deal structure? Did you go independent? Are you under label? Like, how's that worked out for you?
SPEAKER_02So, um, first and foremost, I am independent. Um, I as of right now, this second, I'm releasing through um a good friend's independent label. Um, and really, it's like a seven percent, ninety-three percent split. Like I keep 93% of everything that comes in. Um sounds like a pretty good deal. Yeah, like he distributes the the music and everything like that. Um, and it's very artist friendly. Yeah. Um shout out to Colin Sonderhouse. Um But I would say the top three things that you need to look out for in a contract, um, if you can, try to try to own your masters. If you can, if that's on the table. Um if you're going into a major label though, yeah, and you're not like you haven't built yourself up to be pretty big, yeah. Um, that probably won't happen. But if you can't do that, this is the second thing, um always make sure like there's a good exit plan in your contract that's less favorable to you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like now, obviously, whatever contract that a company gives you is gonna favor them in some way. But as the artist, you need to make sure that like you you're protected, especially by that. Like, make sure, you know, maybe if you're signed to an independent label, like, hey, if if my AR leaves and like found me, and this is for Indie Zand majors, really, but if the AR that brought me here leaves, I can go. You know, you don't want to be stuck at a label and the person who found you and is passionate about you left, and now there's nobody in the building that's actually passionate about what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00It's another artist that's gonna put it on the shelf.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yes. Um, and the third thing I would say, um I would say know what you're looking for. Um what you're looking for as an artist, what you feel that you need, that's gonna determine what deals you even really take seriously. Yeah. Um if you somebody can throw us, like we're gonna throw a million dollars at you, right? But you don't look at the contract and and realize like, oh, they own my name. And they own my I was gonna ask you about that.
SPEAKER_00Like owning your likeness and face and voice and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02They can slip that stuff into contracts, and if you don't look at it, you you will never know. And I think that I don't I think that you have you really do hear the stories about like, you know, uh the predators in the music industry, and that's a thousand percent true, right? But um a lot of it is like you as an artist, like it's your responsibility to be kind of like looking out and being the vigilant one and protecting yourself from it. I mean, in business, you know, the other entity in business isn't gonna be like, hey, by the way, um we threw this in and you know, it's not gonna be too favorable to you, but we just wanted to let you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Throwing stuff in there hoping you ain't gonna see it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not really how that works.
SPEAKER_00So are you going through agreements on your own? Do you work with an attorney?
SPEAKER_02Like so um the first thing I I I'll do is have Will look at things. Um and usually he'll catch something in the first, you know, like who within the first like three times that he looks at something. Um if it's something that, you know, we feel like we need like another pair of eyes to like really understand and everything like that, yeah, we'll definitely take it to an entertainment lawyer. Um if you're signing anything that's like really big in your career or that's gonna like lock you in for a period of time, you definitely need to have a lawyer look that over. You don't want to be stuck in something for even honestly like a year that you didn't understand, and then you start going through things and you can't get out of it. Yeah, like that's not you don't want to be in that situation.
SPEAKER_00But I feel like artists have a little bit more control now than they used to.
Do You Actually Need A Label
SPEAKER_00So as you mentioned that, like I'm thinking of like uh Frank Ocean comes to mind.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Where he just like at midnight just dropped a bunch of albums, like, all right, I fulfilled my contract, I'm out. Yeah, and then the labels waking up the next morning realize they just lost one of their biggest artists. Yeah, and I think that's similar to what Drake just recently did with dropping those three albums at one time. So, like, because in my head, I'm thinking, and I'm the average person is probably thinking this too, because most of us don't fully understand what goes on in the music industry. Yeah, is there really what's the need for a label? Because I'm like, as a creative myself, I can put something on YouTube, SoundCloud, Instagram, TikTok, and blow up from there. Like, why do I need the backing of the industry?
SPEAKER_02Honestly, and this is and this is the reality of it, right? Like, for a label to, for a major label, right, to give you the type of money that you're really gonna want, right? You have to be big already. Yeah, like you have to be big already. You have to be big to the point where you're making a considerable amount of money already. So to be honest, they want you to not need them to even really approach you they need you more than you. Yeah, yeah, at that point. So you really don't need them, but if you want to scale your career to a certain point, because they still have the resources and the relationships and stuff like that with the Spotify's and Apple Musics and can make certain things move for you, um, that's where a major label can come into play. They can kind of scale what you're already doing, but they don't really, for it the most part, um, other than a few special cases that I've seen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, they don't develop, they don't develop artists anymore. There it's not like, you know, Barry Gordy finds you singing in a bar and then they teach you how to dance and work on media training. Obviously, a lot of musicians don't have media training anymore. Um like we we can say that for sure.
SPEAKER_00It's clear and evident the ones who don't.
SPEAKER_02For sure. Um, they're not doing all that stuff anymore. Yeah, um, they're not helping you navigate or even really understand. Like, that's really all on you. And it's good that artists have more control, but in having more control, you have to kind of like really do the research at that point as to like what you want, what you want your career to look like in 20 years, even. Like, you gotta be really thinking, like, you gotta act as an entrepreneur, yeah. And that's exactly what it is. That's literally what it is.
SPEAKER_00So, what do you take a page at a guy's like because when I hear no major label, first two artists that are some of my favorite that come to mind? Yeah, Tech9 the Rapper.
SPEAKER_02Tech Nine.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he is insane career, never had a major label backing him. Um, and then the most recent one that's at the top of the list for me is Chance the Rapper.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Chance took it to a whole nother level without the backing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So when you look at your career and where you're at today, yeah, do you want more of a path like what Taylor Swift and Drake took, or do you want more of a path for what Tech9 and Chance the Rapper did?
SPEAKER_02I think that I would like my career to if I had to choose one of those artists that you listed, um I think that I would I've been able to look at the levers that Drake has built.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um it's like he has insane leverage in the industry.
SPEAKER_00LeBron James of music.
SPEAKER_02For sure. I yeah. You know what? That's pretty.
SPEAKER_00LeBron can make his own day. Hey, I'm coming to the Lakers, but I need this, this, that, that, and the other.
SPEAKER_02For sure. Um, I like the kind of leverage that Drake has, but also understanding that he started kind of with the majors and kind of built that up over time, and he was able to build that leverage.
SPEAKER_00Um He's gotten screwed his whole career. Like independently, and then when he got on with Birdman, Birdman stole from everybody. And then these last couple labels, like just taking, they're putting their hands in his pocket.
SPEAKER_02Man, it's it's it's uh it's a dangerous game, and everybody takes some lumps from it too. Like the biggest artists ever have taken L's like in business and career and everything like that. Like, um, definitely, I definitely respect what Chance was able to do. Like, he got he was able to get huge, which is almost unheard of, especially at the time. Like, um, I really think he's a kind of like a pioneer for like what he was doing at the time um and what he's still doing.
SPEAKER_00Um he started out with a gospel group, and then he got into the acid rap, and then he dropped that first album, and just the internet went crazy.
SPEAKER_02Went crazy, went crazy. And I think that chance is uh he's a prime example of how to kind of like make yourself a commodity, kind of like because you know he had the he had those three hats that were going crazy, he was making millions off of the hats alone. Like But I still don't know what that means. Like, like me neither that's the crazy thing. Like you you just see it, you just saw it on him, but like he it was kind of like a masterclass on kind of like you know, how to build a world around yourself, essentially, which now present day for an independent artist, just how things work, it's you make yourself the brand. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00If if you bring yourself, and I tell this to people all the time, whether it's I'm talking to an organization, a business, I'm like, the the founder needs to be branded first.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00If you work for somebody else, you need to have your own brand. If I worked for somebody else full-time, yeah, I would want to have a brand big enough that other companies are reaching out to me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram being like, hey, whatever they're paying you are there, we'll double it. We want you over here. Like just building a brand just gives you so much leverage, so much power to be able to do. Even in relationships. Like if you're looking for a spouse or somebody, yeah, the more eyeballs you have on you, the more cloud you have, the bigger pool that you have to draw from. Same thing in the business world, same thing with deals that are gonna come to you.
SPEAKER_02Like, honestly, a lot of the stuff, and this is what I've learned just like on the music business side, like music business is just business in general, yeah, first and foremost. Like, I've learned that like principles that you learn from those things train really do translate to life, like you're saying. Like, you know what I'm saying? Just like realizing, like, you know, showing value and you know being of service to other people really does help you in the long run. Like it really does. Like it it does behoove you to connect with people.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02And you know, relationships are the capital. Relationships are the real capital. Like, as long as you have great relationships, you can fall down however many times, and you will be good because you have great relationships.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, somebody's there to catch you.
SPEAKER_02A thousand percent. Yeah. So That's one of the biggest things I I think that I've learned.
SPEAKER_00I heard this quote. This quote has been resonating with me the last few weeks. I heard someone say, because you get to these points in your career, your business, whatever it is, and like you feel like you're supposed to be at the next tier and you're not there yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I heard this guy say, he said, if God is making you wait, then do what waiters do and serve.
SPEAKER_02A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_00Jesus in the gut, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, like if this your time is not your moment yet, go out and see how you can serve others, and your time's gonna come from behaving that way.
Social Media As A Resume
SPEAKER_00Um, let me transition over to your social media. So you got you got a great presence online. Um talk about the come up of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So before, like when did you like start going hard on social media? Because a lot of people will see someone who has, I don't know how many followers you got on Instagram, like 20 something or something like that.
SPEAKER_02He's like, I think I I think I'm at like 16k right now.
SPEAKER_00Somewhere around there, yeah. But like people will look at that and be like, oh man, like this got blown up, like must have been easy. He just had a one thing go viral. Talk about the work you put into your growing your social platforms.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so um I came, I actually came in kind of early on like the way of thinking. So I started, I remember it was like April 2017, I want to say, and um I was sitting on my bed in my parents' house, and I was like, I looked at my phone and I realized I I was like, I I've just been scrolling on social media. I was like, I can post something. Yeah, I was like, I could just use Instagram to just like that'll be my resume. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So at that point, like I I decided to get just super consistent on there. That's when the I started to figure stuff out like branding and things like that.
SPEAKER_00Like now, when you say consistent, let's define that for people listening. What's your level of consistency when you're talking about back in the day in 2017?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like 2017, um, then I was like, every Sunday and Tuesday, I'm gonna try to post. Or it, if not both of those, at least Sunday or Tuesday, yeah, I'm going to post something.
SPEAKER_00So bare minimum, at least one post a week is gonna be.
SPEAKER_02At least one post a week, I'm gonna post something, you know, um, especially when I want to put out a song or anything like that. Now, that coupled with SoundCloud was like the big thing back then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um like I was being super consistent on SoundCloud. Like, you know, I was treating SoundCloud like social media as well. You know what I'm saying? Like I was just dropping edits or remixes or whatever I had, like during the time. And I would, you know, post a picture. It didn't matter if it was funny or whatever on Instagram and in the comments, like I would somehow, it'd be some like dumb caption to somehow like tie in the fact that I released something, you know, like then I started realizing, you know, saving up my money and really getting like shoots done and stuff like that. Um, you know, people just liked the way the pictures looked and things like that. Because here's the thing, people aren't gonna always like your music is just a vehicle for people to like get to know you. You you're the real selling point. That's also what I figured out back then as well. You know, I realized that people were laughing at the captions, you know, like people were, you know, I was actually people were in engaging, I was having conversations and things like that. You know what I'm saying? Um, like, like a year in, man, like I remember um, you know, I started to build, I started to like build a following like slowly but surely. Yeah. And I remember I had a show, it was a small show out in Virginia Beach, like, and I remember announcing it on it on my Instagram. And this one kid from Columbus, Ohio was like, yo, I'm gonna be there. And people say things online like all the time. I'm like, okay, like whatever. Me and my homie get to Virginia Beach, and the guy messages me and he's like, Yo, I'm here. And I was like, What? And so I give him my homie's number. He calls, he was like, he's like, Yeah, man, I'm here. And I brought friends too. And I was like, I was like, how long of a drive was that for y'all? He was like, Oh, it's nine hours. Like, we just like these kids drove from Columbus, Ohio to Virginia Beach just to meet me and see this small show, and that's when I realized the power of social media and just really like connecting with people. Yep. Really connecting with people. And that same guy showed up in New York when I had a show. You know what I'm saying? And I think the last time, I think the last time I saw him, um, he was actually here in Richmond and we met up and he wanted to take pictures and things like that. And we chilled and talked. But like that, I back then was when I realized I was like, okay, social media is like really, really powerful.
SPEAKER_00Now you dropped a gem in there that I don't want people to miss.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You said connecting with people on social media.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00A lot of people will get too big for their britches. They got 1,500 followers on Instagram. They're like, oh, I'm too big to respond to all these comments. I'm too big to be in the DMs and all this stuff. That's where the conversion happens.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because people, your music may be one thing, but if they like you as a person as well, too, oh, you get a fan for life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's crazy to see. So, I mean, from people recognizing you at the job to somebody driving almost cross country to come see you in Virginia Beach perform, when did it start to click for you? That like, man, I'm I'm locked all the way in. Like, I'm I know that this is gonna work out. Because I think there has to be a level of like, whether it's entrepreneurship or being an artist, being a creative, at some point we lock in and say, Oh, well, this is it. Like, no matter how many times I fail, what happens, yeah, this is my destiny, and I'm gonna keep on doing it.
SPEAKER_02I think, like, so that definitely, like that experience definitely like made me know, like I was like, okay, like this is something I gotta I gotta really gotta stick to. And when I'm something I'm doing is obviously working. Um, but when it really became real for me was when um like this gentleman that worked at Sony messaged me, just DM'd me. This was at the early, it was early me of of me taking social media seriously. Yeah. I think the video was I made a uh I used to make these, um, I used to take trap songs and cover them and make them jazz songs. And I think it was Migo's t-shirt that I did. And that was like honestly the defining, like that's changed the trajectory of my life. Um gentleman from Sony Um hit me up. I didn't know he worked at Sony at the time. He was like, he was like, yo, man, I like what you're doing. Uh if you're ever in New York, stop by the office. And I was like, the office? And then I went to his page and he worked at Columbia.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Man, maybe like three months later, I was at Columbia. Like, I was at I I was at Columbia Records. Like, I was I was in there from my parents' basement. Like, I I got that message, I was in my parents' basement in that town at 3,000 people, and three months later I was I was at Columbia. And that's when I realized I was like, okay, you know, this is like real. Like this is real, and this can a thousand percent happen. Love it. Um, especially if you just stay, you just stick to what you're doing, you know, you stick to connecting, you stick to just, you know, something if something resonates with people, like you can't you can't buy that part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, and that's when it became like real, it became tangible.
SPEAKER_00That's what's up, man. Yeah, that's dope. Let's talk about stick on the the social media piece.
Brand Deals And Community Over Followers
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, the endorsements and deals that you're getting on that side. So, number one, I want people to understand. So, like when my platform's smaller than yours, like the shirt I'm wearing right now, is a I think we've talked about this company, O21 Originals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I had 3,000 followers on Instagram. I DM'd the CEO of the company and I said, Hey, those are dope. I don't think you're hitting the target audience that's actually buying your stuff, guys like me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you think about you? Send me some of your clothes, I'll do some videos. I think he responded within 24 hours and said, Let's go. And for the last year and a half, I've been getting free clothes. You've been working with uh Taft, Taft Boots. Um, and I remember homie showing me Taft like years ago, and I'm like, $300 for a pair of boots, man. I'm like, I don't know if I can swing this. I was like, they dope. It's a little bit of an investment. Yeah, I was like, they dope, but I don't know if I can pull that. How did how did deals like that come about?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. So um Taft happened, I'd been wearing their boots for like five years, like before I ever even started. I was a fan of their product before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I just love the the the boots. Um But Will and I uh put together a shoot. Um one of his interns just actually shot it. Um this was actually the beginning of last year. It's like April of last year, actually. And um we we did it. I was like, yo, like this shoot is dope, whatever. And I posted a carousel um on Instagram. Once again, it just goes back into tying in your interest and everything like that. Um I was like, wait, before I post this, I'm gonna list out everything I'm wearing and where it's from. And when I got down to the boots, I tagged tap and they actually um reached out in the comments and was like, hey, can we use this photo? Can we get your permission to use a photo? Yeah, and in my head, I was like, Yeah, of course. But then I thought, I was like, well, I have tons of photos because I wear their boots already, and maybe they could use some more photos. And so I DM'd them back and I was I I I DM'd them and I was like, yo, I have more photos. Um, maybe we can work together in some way. Um, we did the first shoot, Will organized it and everything like that. Um we rented a U-Haul, so I didn't have to, I'd have somewhere to change. So, because we were mobile around the city and everything like that. Um, and we did the first shoot and they loved it. Um, and then we talked about doing like something, you know, doing an actual deal you know, for like a certain amount of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they were with it. They they believed in like what we had done and um how we fit the brand and everything like that. And um, yeah, it was history, history from now.
SPEAKER_00See, this was especially dudes, this is what they gotta learn, man. Y'all y'all ain't afraid to hit that baddie you see up on IG, but you scared to hit up a company that you already using their product and potentially do business with. Like, it's nuts. Just send the message.
SPEAKER_02Just send the message, like, and that was actually my second brand deal that had that came that way. Like, I previously before Taft, I worked with the rowing rowing blazers, and that was, man, that was in 2020.
SPEAKER_00Um, what did your following look like at that time?
SPEAKER_02My following during that time, I feel like was maybe 11k, maybe something.
SPEAKER_00But still, I think I think the big deal start opening up after you hit 10k followers. Yeah, but honestly, let me pause on this point. The follower count doesn't matter as much. Now that's more of like a superficial flex. But like you we follow each other on social media. Like, I got a graphic that got 2.8 million views on it now. Yeah, so it's like they would rather be working with somebody who's getting the engagement and getting the views, because a lot of times now the algorithms have gotten so sophisticated, particularly on TikTok. Yeah, where if you like somebody's post one time, yeah, it's gonna they're gonna show back up on your feed. So a lot of times people don't even think to hit the follow button because they know, well, I see this guy's stuff every time I get on. So like it's gonna keep popping up. Like we don't even consciously make that connection anymore. Yeah. Um, so it's the activity. If they see that you're consistent, yeah, they see that you're engaging with your audience and all these different things, they're like, okay, this guy's built a community.
SPEAKER_02That's the most important part to them because they want a community that they can tap into that you know they feel like they could sell their product to. Like that's the that's the biggest thing. You you know, you can have like 200,000 followers, and if they're not engaged or don't care about what you're doing, then like that's plenty of pages.
SPEAKER_00I man, I come across pages all the time, 200, 300, 400,000 followers. And you got 40 likes on a post? Yeah, 200,000 people are following you, you got 40 likes? Something's off here.
SPEAKER_02That's hard.
SPEAKER_00Either you paid for followers, which I don't think as much of that goes on back in the 2017, 2018. People going crazy. You had like a thousand Muhammads following your page, and you live in Gary, Indiana. That doesn't make any sense. I can figure that out real quick.
SPEAKER_02And I don't think that people like you know understand like that part of it. Like, you're not gonna extract all the value that you really could from honestly, even a social account that may have like 6,000 followers, but is super engaged, you're not gonna get as much value as you from a page with 200,000 followers and people aren't engaged, too.
SPEAKER_00Nah, I think I think the sweetest spot probably on the influencer side is between 10 to 30k max.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I found that that 15 to 20,000 range, at that point you have such a you got soldiers out there for you. Like these people like really care about your brand and they're and they're following your direction on certain things. They're like, you know, if Alex thinks this is high, like if he's mentioned this artist or he's mentioning these clothes, I need to go check this out because it's good enough for him, it's probably good enough for me. Um, yeah, people people just need to understand that piece.
A Realistic Day For A Working Artist
SPEAKER_00I mean, this is just curiosity, and I think most people want to know. Um, for an artist that's growing a brand as strong and as fast as you are right now, what's the regular day look like for you? Like, are you just in the studio? Are you writing constantly? Is it focused on the marketing piece? You just chill. Because I you look at like comedians, like comedians for the most part, them dudes don't get out of bed until like one o'clock in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're just night owls and they're doing stand-up and you know, funny bone and stuff like that. What does an everyday, what does the average day look like for you?
SPEAKER_02Um, it can be different depending on like the time that like we're going through, right? So now we're gearing up for for the album and everything like that. So um the album's done. So I'm not writing and recording as much as I am, you know, we just got off of a binge of shooting content. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00So my feet were hurting after that shoot, man.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, like what? And then we had about like another week and a half solid of just shooting content, like shooting around. It's full days, nine to five shooting content. Um, but you know, I go through uh, I call them recording binges where like, you know, maybe that week, maybe that's all I'm doing is just recording. Cause I also don't like to um have to catch up on recording. If I want to put a song out, I don't want to have to record the song and then put it out. You know, I like to have like a you know back catalog of music that I can just pull from and then put out.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Um, so it may be doing that. Um we do, we're starting to do more sync stuff and starting to work with more brands on the music side. So um it may be tailored towards that, uh, right? And I th and I was actually talking to my wife. Um I was at the I'm at the point where I'm actually starting to have to, you know, really utilize the calendar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, and really get organized. And that just goes back into the thing of like this whole thing is a business. Yeah. And the bigger, the bigger things go, the more things that you do, you have to actually start treating it like one. Because if you don't, you're gonna treat it like a hobby, you're gonna get paid like it's a hobby. You're gonna get paid like it's a hobby. And if you're starting to make money and you're still treating it like a hobby, you're not eventually not gonna make as much money anymore. Um, so just being organized and things like that helps. But as of right now, um, it really depends on what the overall objective is. Now I try to get in and record, you know, choose a day to record, you know, at least once a week, once or twice a week, just to keep just it's just to keep the pin sharp. And because songwriting is really like a muscle. I I try to explain this all the time. It's really like a muscle. The more you do it, the better you'll you'll be at it. Yep. You know? Um but yeah, I do try to put certain hours on myself now, though. Like between nine to five, I I I need to be like my most productive. And then, you know, an idea will come to me like late at night or whatever, and I can always I have a home studio, which has increased my productivity. Like, I I couldn't imagine not having a studio like in my home.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, I can go do that stuff, but between nine to five, I always I'm always doing something then, you know, to try to keep that normalcy.
SPEAKER_00Two two last questions for you as we wrap up. Um one, first let me ask this one.
Living In Purpose And Staying Grounded
SPEAKER_00How does it feel to be living in your purpose right now? Because you are, and I have to constantly remind myself of this, is like you're you're number one, living the life that you once prayed for. We have to honor those moments that we're at in the the stages of our journey.
SPEAKER_02A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_00But two, there are other people looking at you and they're like, man, you are living out their dream. Like, I don't care what you look like physically, you have someone's dream body, you have someone's dream job, you have someone's dream woman, like all that. You live in their dream city, all those things. What is it like for you at this moment to start getting into music at the age of nine? Yeah, and to now be living in this, and this is your career. What are you doing? Like, how does that how does it feel to be in this moment?
SPEAKER_02Oh, it feels surreal. And um, the times where things are hard, um, like that's what drives me, you know. Thinking back to when I was a kid, you know, or like a teenager and like really wanted to do a lot of the stuff I'm doing now. Yeah, thinking, thinking back to that and thinking about oh, when I like it was it was literally just a dream. Um, that pushes me in.
SPEAKER_00Shout out to Biggie. Shout out to Biggie.
SPEAKER_02That like kind of keeps me in check at times too. It kind of keeps me in check. Uh, because you know, I realized like, you know, a lot of this stuff, you know, not many people do this, man. Like, not not not many people have an idea, set out to really do it, and it actually works. Yeah. And you actually see it work. That's a very small percentage of people.
SPEAKER_00It's like being an athlete.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, literally.
SPEAKER_00Like you know, the percentage of people that have existed in humanity that actually get to start for an NFL franchise. It's crazy. It's the 1% of the 1% of the 1%.
SPEAKER_02Tiny, man. Actually, to actually, you know, winner Grammy doing this, like stuff like that, like that's like I I can't complain. Like, even on days where you feel like you could complain, yeah, like that kind of keeps you, it kind of keeps you leveled. Um, and it feels great, man. It feels it feels great. Um, I you get a chance to inspire people, you know, you get a chance to really show people that they can do whatever they want. Um, I'm no different, I'm no different than anybody else. You know, I just just chose to just go do it and continue to do it. Because this thing is like this, man. Like business is like this, like the stock market is like the stock market.
SPEAKER_00Up, down, up, down, up, down. But yeah, the right stock, yes, even though it has its dips, it's can still consistently going higher and higher.
SPEAKER_02You only have to be right once, man. Like that's what you only have to be right once.
SPEAKER_00And that's what people miss out on, man. Like, you don't have to knock it out the park every time you step up to the plate.
SPEAKER_02No, you're not going to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You just need that one home run to be able to make it to the big leagues. Like, yeah. That's all it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Last thing I want to ask you as we wrap
Advice For Artists Who Haven’t Started
SPEAKER_00up. If there is an artist, there's someone who has music in their soul and their mind, and they haven't taken the leap of faith to get this out of here. What's the number one thing you recommend to someone who's coming up as an artist?
SPEAKER_02Um, I would recommend to just start somewhere. You know, just start somewhere. Like, you know, um learn everything you can about recording yourself. Yeah. You know, start with that laptop and maybe that USB mic, you know. Um, learn the basics, you know. Ask yourself, do you really love it? If it's something that you just feel like you can't live without, yeah, it's in your head. That's how I was. Like I was like, there's not, I was gonna do this for free anyway, like because I have music in my head constantly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If that's you, just go ahead and do it. If you don't, you're gonna regret it for the rest of your life. As like we were saying, you're gonna be sitting in that nine to five. Like, even if it didn't work out and you tried it, you can have that kind of like, you know.
SPEAKER_00At least I went for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, at least I went for it. But if you're if you're sitting somewhere, you're never gonna be happy because you just didn't even give yourself a chance. So that would be my advice. Give yourself a chance, learn the basics, um, and really do your research. Research the business because if you want to make a career out of it, yeah, you're gonna be in the business.
SPEAKER_00Love it. Yeah, love it, man. This is an awesome interview. Um, people want to find you, follow you on social media. Uh, shout out the spot taking go find you.
SPEAKER_02For sure, for sure. Uh, you can find me on easy Alex Mac. Um, easy, like easy the word spelled out. Easy like Sunday morning. Easy like Sunday morning. Is that Lionel Richie? Yep. Facts. Uh Easy Alex A L E X Mac M A C K. And that's me on everything. So perfect, perfect.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate you being here, brother. It's a long overdue, man. Thank you for having me, man. Absolutely. Yes, sir. We'll see you guys on the next episode.