30. [Career Spotlight] INTERIOR DESIGNER to BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT and everything in between w/ Kelsey Paul

Are you creative, love design and architecture? Be inspired by Kelsey Paul's journey.  A female Business Development Manager at Network Next Gen, an Interior Designer, and the creative force behind the studio.chats podcast. She's here to guide you through the fascinating realms of interior design, architecture, and business development, while sharing her own journey and invaluable lessons learned along the way.

But it doesn't stop there! Kelsey is like your cool big sister who keeps it real, offering insights and advice that can benefit any young listener, regardless of where you are in your journey. From mindset and wellness to mentorship and community building, she's got you covered. So, whether you're passionate about unleashing your creativity, exploring career opportunities, or simply seeking inspiration to fuel your dreams, this podcast episode is an absolute must-listen! Don't miss out on the chance to gain helpful information, discover amazing resources, and unlock your potential. We've got you covered.

Get ready for an authentic and eye-opening conversation that will leave you feeling motivated and empowered. Remember to hit that play button and stay tuned until the very end! 

 Connect with Kelsey:
Instagram: @oneseattoanother @studio.chats
Book Recommendation: The Mountain is You by Brianna Wiest

Helpful Links Shared on this Episode.
WESTERN UNDERGRADUATUE EXCHANGE
Council for Interior Design Accreditation
NCIDQ Certification: National Council for Interior Design Qualification
NCARB: National Council of Architectural Registration Boards

Connect with Sonia Cacique
LinkedIn
Instagram

JOIN OUR CAREER NEWSLETTER here.

🚀 I'll help you rediscover who you truly are, provide clarity towards your future and be your personalized coach with Multiple Service Package options. Your Coach Sonia is ready to help you!

"Stay well, be present, and enjoy the journey"

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to another exciting episode of the College and Career Ready podcast. I'm your host, sonia Casique. In today's episode, we have the pleasure of introducing our guest, kelsey Paul. Kelsey is not only the Business Development Manager at Network Next Gen, but also an accomplished interior designer and the brilliant mind behind the Studio Chats podcast, with a passion for fostering a positive mindset and promoting wellness. Kelsey has spent the majority of her career in the vibrant city of New York, honing her expertise and workplace design. Her dedication to mentorship, industry connections and community building and sustainability is truly inspiring. Kelsey holds a bachelor's degree in interior design from the University of Idaho and a master's in interior design from Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, new York. During her time in the Big Apple, she gained valuable experience working at renowned design firms such as MBBJ Studios and Mancini Duffy.

Speaker 1: 1:08

If you're intrigued by the world of interior design, architecture or business development, or if you're simply seeking guidance on how to apply your unique skill set to various opportunities, then this is the episode for you. Kelsey is like your knowledgeable big sister, offering candid insights into her own journey, including both the triumphs and challenges she has encountered along the way. Expect an authentic and open conversation, as Kelsey remains genuine and relatable throughout the entire interview. Her insights are applicable to any student, regardless of their specific journey. And don't forget to check out Kelsey's podcast Studio Chats, where you'll find a wealth of additional resources. In our show notes, we've compiled a list of helpful spots to find more information, along with one of Kelsey's favorite book recommendations. So, without further ado, let's dive into this inspiring episode. Welcome, kelsey, welcome to the College and Career Ready podcast. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 2:13

Good. Thank you so much for having me, Sonia.

Speaker 1: 2:15

No, I'm excited. I'm excited to have you. So let me start off by introducing you that I kind of met you through a Facebook group. This is where social media comes in handy in so many good and positive ways. So we started off in a group. Because we're both podcast hosts and I saw a little bit of your career journey. I was like, oh my gosh, I need to have her on my podcast. So, yeah, I'm excited. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about who Kelsey is, your family, your personal life, if you like? So just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah, totally. Hi everyone, thanks so much for tuning in. It's so great to have you here. Thank you so much, sonia. Like she said, you never know what can lead to this next connection or new opportunities down the road, so never be afraid to reach out. Like thank you so much for sliding into my dance and I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 3:18

So I grew up in Seattle, washington. My story that I share often is that my grandpa was an architect, told my dad not to be an architect so he sells windows and doors, and then my mom was actually at textile's rep and also in the real estate business in Seattle. So at a young age I ironically didn't listen to my grandpa and was like I want to be an interior designer. I am going to go to design school at the University of Idaho, which has a great interior design program, with a minor in architecture, so it's very interior architecture focused, which I loved. Graduating I was so nervous. I had had a few internships, did a study abroad, had then interned and it ended up not being an awesome experience, but I'm really grateful that it wasn't because it has sent me on such a cool, unique path following. But deep down, I always knew that I was interested in going into potentially the teaching space. So that's when I took a rest and applied to grad school in New York City. So I had done my bachelor's in a tiny old town in Northern Idaho which I loved and was very different from growing up in Seattle, washington to one of the biggest cities in the country, which was such an awesome, challenging experience, really forced so much growth in a beautiful way in myself and my career. I thought I would quickly transition back to the West Coast to be closer to my family, but ended up getting a really awesome job and experience in New York City and in the design community. It's really the place to be, especially in your 20s, because someone just happening it's really hustle and bustle and very exciting if you want to be in the thick of things.

Speaker 2: 5:17

So that is kind of where my journey led to podcasting, always having an interest in supporting others. I noticed a lot of the designers at my firm and my friends at other firms. We're all struggling with very similar things. So that's when I had an idea to start a podcast called Studio Chats, which was really focused on mentorship and helping to bridge that gap between design school and the professional world, and so we do have a lot of similarities and passions in helping people navigate those pivots in growing from school to the world or high school to college. And in doing so, I was consistent with the podcast for two years, releasing an episode every single week, and it was in a reformat, so similar to this podcast, exposing tons of viewpoints of different design paths or opportunities within the profession. There are job titles and at that same time this is kind of like a long story. No, yeah. At the same time, I've been invited to this networking event called Network Next Gen in New York City and it kind of was one of those awful moments a little bit really helped to connect the dots for me. In New York you're constantly being invited to these really cool networking events, but it can be really awkward going to networking events and introducing yourself to someone new, and the format of the genre really created a safe space, for you are able to get to know a ton of different designers, all from different firms, really talk about those things that matter that we're all struggling with and support each other as a larger community.

Speaker 2: 7:15

So a few years later, a position opened up and I had kept in touch through Instagram with the founder.

Speaker 2: 7:24

I had had her on my podcast, I had been included in some of their other initiatives that they had done on social media and when I saw that they were growing and expanding from 12 cities to 18 cities, I oh, wow. I was like, hey, congratulations, that's so exciting. How are you going to be traveling to all these cities, so many for one person to do four events per year in 18 different cities? And she was like we're actually expanding our team. So I put my hand myself out there and I was like, hey, I would love to hear of any opportunities in the future if it sees fit. And the next day she was like I actually think you'd be perfect for this position. Can you hop on a phone call? And yeah, we talked the next day, talked to her boss on Friday and yeah, so I made the pivot from a traditional interior designer. I was working at large corporate firms, working on workplace, so a lot of headquarters, tech offices, financial large offices in New York. And yeah, I officially made the pivot about a year ago.

Speaker 1: 8:42

Okay, we are going to dive into this in so many ways. So one of my passions personally is career exploration, because, being a first gen actually both of my parents being first to come to the country I didn't have much exposure and until you expose yourself to the opportunities and people, you're kind of limited. So fast forward to today. You know I'm doing the podcast and a whole bunch of other things that I love, but now I have children and my I have twins and you know my career journey is probably not going to be the same for them and I love everything you're telling me because my nine year old girl is amazing. She is creative, she is artsy, she can get a box of Legos and create studios and create so many things. That limits me in showing her her potential.

Speaker 1: 9:40

So bringing these stories, like you're doing today, is opening the door to many students who just have that curiosity or who realize you know what? I have a talent here and I always tell my daughter you have a God given talent. You know there are some things that you can learn, but being creative and artistic and designing in your mind you know these things out of nothing really is a talent. So I love it. Thank you for sharing your story, and now I have a connection for her.

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah, I would love to chat with her With. Multiple times on the design podcast I had parents reaching out to me asking if I would chat with their daughter or son about their career. So I'm happy, happy to talk to anyone who is interested in getting in that design field.

Speaker 1: 10:28

So that's so, so awesome. And then in your story you know you shared about mentorship and getting out of your comfort zone when you picked up the you know phone call or when you reached out to now your employer, yeah, and building those connections. You never know what that one connection can really change the trajectory of your life. Just one connection, and so I appreciate you sharing that. You had you know family, your parents, who were very knowledgeable in that area. Is that how you think that you became interested in? Or you just have that, that natural tendency to be, you know, creative and wanting design?

Speaker 2: 11:13

Yeah, I think about that a lot. I think part of it was that it just made sense. Like my parents were always remodeling our homes. We lived through multiple constructions, but my younger sibling has no interest in design architecture. But for me, looking back, whenever I was dealing with a tough problem in my life, I was always redesigning my space. I used design. I used spaces to kind of express myself or deal with whatever situation I was going through. So in that sense it had made like the alignment made sense.

Speaker 2: 11:51

But when I was working as an interior designer in a traditional sense, there was a part of me in my gut that was like I just don't feel aligned, you know, and I got the degree I did my master. Everything on paper made sense, but when it came down to my day to day I was kind of like is this it? Like I don't think I want the job of my bosses. I don't, you know, I don't really see myself taking that path. But of course I'm interested in this field and I know I have experience and knowledge and talent. But is there a way that I can kind of create a new lane for myself? I love that.

Speaker 1: 12:35

I love that. I love that and I think a lot of people are realizing that nowadays. I think, more of our parent generation or our parents they were, I think, in a career where it was like point A to point Z and this is the roadmap. And now people are really wanting to students, wanting to be fulfilled in their job and really want to make change, wants to make an effect on someone else and so and be fulfilled in what they do. It's not just a clock in, clock out.

Speaker 1: 13:06

You know, yeah, job, so that's awesome. Okay, so tell us where you're at today in reference to your career. What do you do at Next? So Network Next.

Speaker 2: 13:19

Jen Network Next Jen. Yeah, so my title is Business Development, which means I am in charge of getting all the sponsors for the dinners, for the events that we host. So in order to pay for these dinners to happen and really, you know, make it happen, we bring in sponsors who are manufacturers within the industry, so people who manufacture carpet or lighting or furniture. Their clients are designers because designers are specifying them and designing them into their projects. So they want to create a stronger connection with designers.

Speaker 2: 14:07

And the less fails, the weird way If that makes sense, and then part of that is also traveling to host the events. So we're in 18 different cities. We do it four times a year per city. So the founders, they sat of Chicago and we have two to three events almost every single week. Wow, so it's really aggressive for one person to do so. We're splitting the difference for the most part. So that's been really exciting because it feels like a live podcast. You would tell me love it and then you get to. Everyone shares their story. We go around the table to really connect on a deeper level and then everyone is able to put a question in a notebook that they've been wanting to ask. A room full of designers so something that they're struggling with in their career whether it's growing within their firm, dealing with a tough boss, dealing with tough clients, how do you ask for a raise? How do you negotiate anything around the money top? I'm the one who's asking the question on behalf of everyone there.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 15:16

So we're really able to get into those deep dive conversations and have everybody leave with tons of value and also new connections at all different firms, because we only allow one spot per company, so it creates this really cool safe space.

Speaker 1: 17:42

Very cool. That is awesome. I love it. I love it. I love it. Do you? Are you using your designing skills in this job, or is it more of speaking engagement?

Speaker 2: 17:57

So for the first year it really was more learning sales, the sales part of it, managing that, creating a system to make sure I'm doing my reach outs to all these different reps, and creating new opportunities and leave, and then learning how to travel and host and run these events. But now we have started to expand into conferences. So there's a large interior design conference there's multiple that happen throughout the year and one of the biggest ones happens in Chicago. It's called Neocon, and this year we found out that we had an opportunity to have our own space at Neocon. So I've been able to use my design skills and help with designing the space, which is gonna be really exciting. So I think, as time goes on and different things, initiatives that we're looking forward to exploring, I think that my design skills that will always come back in.

Speaker 2: 19:03

As a designer, one of the biggest things you learn is problem solving in a spatial way. So something I'm really struggled with in making this pivot is feeling like I spent so much time working towards this very specific skill. Six years of school and we're in studio. Everyone it's known for late night, a ton of hard work and feeling like you put in a ton of effort to get to this point and then not doing that, you then start to realize that your design skillsets are very transferable into different avenues. They may just look different.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Absolutely and I 100% agree, and that's another reason why I like doing this podcast because whatever degree you have, you can really use it to your advantage by transferring some of those skills that have been learned and the experience, yeah there is a ton of limiting beliefs that do come with it, and I can totally resonate with that.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Even graduating with my undergrad and then being like I shoot, I don't know, I don't feel qualified enough to have these jobs, but so much of it is learning in the field, which can be so scary and feel very vulnerable, like am I gonna make a mistake?

Speaker 2: 20:29

Do I actually know what I'm talking about? The imposter syndrome that does come with it. And even after doing my master's, I had a principal designer ask me if I got my master's because I was too scared to work. I was like I was like oh, I don't know if I would spend this much money on you because I was too scared. But you know, it occurred to me. I was scared. It is a big, scary transition. Obviously, rationally, it made sense. I needed to get a terminal degree to have opportunities down the road to teach, and it's a perfect opportunity. If you're a second career, you're switching your field. But yeah, there is some. It can be scary, but you see it right out along the way.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, no, and sometimes you need that. Sometimes you need that next level of education to feel confidence and really feel secure in yourself. And then reaching out to people when you are wanting to look for that next career move or job that you wanna pursue, yeah, definitely, I love it. I love it. So let's go a little bit back in time. Was there anything else other than doing this career and design? Was there anything else that had sparked your interest or you just knew from the get go that this is what you wanted to do?

Speaker 2: 21:51

So I think back on what I was interested in high school and things I loved to do. I was on your book in high school and I loved interviewing people. I loved writing the stories and when I got the courage to have a podcast and have this platform, it brought back a lot of those memories and kind of excitement of doing the interviews. And then I was like wow, who would've guessed?

Speaker 2: 22:23

I loved your book. I was the copy editor at my high school but I knew I loved design and that was kind of this merging moment. Yeah, you kind of just have to listen to those sparks like what sparks curiosity are like.

Speaker 2: 22:40

What are you wanting to do in your free time, or how do you process things, or what are different problems that you're always looking to solve and using those as guidance points to take you down the path. You don't have to know the full. There's that one analogy that's like you don't have to know the full staircase, you just seem to know that next step, next step to take, and then you just keep on stacking those as you're progressing.

Speaker 1: 23:06

Absolutely. And this kind of brings me to my next question, which is any major obstacle, which I'm assuming is your pivot. So, trans, walk me through a little bit on. When you decided that this wasn't a good fit, how did you make that change?

Speaker 2: 23:23

Yeah, my parents definitely were very supportive. I mean, my dad's always like, do you want to just take my windowpapers? I'm giving back clients. I'm like, okay, cool, cool, that sounds nice. But also I want to be fulfilled and have passion within what I'm doing. It did take me a while to build up the courage and confidence to make that pivot and I even told my now boss that she asked me when we were interviewing if I was ready to make that transition and I was like I've been mentally trying to break up with design for a while.

Speaker 2: 24:04

It is kind of a relationship that we get into in our career journeys because we're so invested and there's so much heart and time and history within it to do that, but something that I really look back and attribute a lot of kind of success in how I was able to make this pivot and having clarity and confidence to do so was really taking care of myself, my health and wellness journey, and I think that that's something that gets downplayed a lot when we're talking about growing within our career.

Speaker 2: 24:45

It's like I remember those first few days of interning, just feeling so new and not knowing what I was getting myself into and not having confidence within my knowledge. But I was also not feeling great in my body and not feeling great within.

Speaker 2: 25:03

And I remember just having all of those limiting beliefs like hitting me about, like, oh my gosh, I don't feel comfortable, just all of those body image things that were, you know, a lot of people deal with, and then also being new. And so there was a point in my career about, I would say, three years into it. I grew up as an athlete, so I was always working out. And then I got to college and as an athlete you go to practice, you don't go to the gym, so I didn't know how to work out. You know, no one really taught me about nutrition or anything, and so that college 15, 20, 30, whatever kept on filing on, and then in grad school I did not work out at all, which was probably the time that I needed it the most to relieve stress and really have that outlook, to have this middle clarity.

Speaker 2: 26:02

So then, two years into my career, I finally decided to take it seriously and really invest in myself, and that's what I really think was the biggest changer in me being able to finally make that pivot and listen to my gut that I wasn't feeling aligned. Because when you're committing to something like your fitness journey, showing up day to day, finishing different challenges, it really is a metaphor for life and you're constantly growing, both mentally and just feeling better physically. You know it's not all about losing weight by any means. It's about building confidence and trust that you're the person who shows up and does what you're gonna say you're gonna do, even after that feeling wears off. And I know Sonia and I are big fans of the Empower Her podcast, in case you talk about that all the time and so I think that was building a muscle that helped me then have courage and clarity, that I was interested in starting a podcast and I knew that it wasn't about the destination or the end result.

Speaker 2: 27:22

Finding joy within the process and instead of what the process produces and showing up consistently. So that kind of then led to the podcast, which then opened up so many different doors for myself to be able to make that transition. I think, you know, I probably would have gotten into it, but I don't think the transition would have been to something that I felt more aligned with. It could have been something like a lot of designers go from working in the field to being a sales rep. So yeah, that was always kind of a plan being, that was what my mom did, but that also didn't feel aligned. So, yeah, I'm like you have to really take care of yourself and especially in design, there's this intense narrative about like you'll sleep when you die, like work a million hours, pulling all nighter, go, go, go. That was very much the narrative and I think gets changing and I hope it's changing for this next generation. But you really cannot pour from an empty cup.

Speaker 1: 28:34

So if you burnt out.

Speaker 2: 28:35

If you have not been eating, if you're not drinking water, if you're not, you can carry yourself. It is impossible to show up your best, whatever you're doing and it's the possible light of that clarity and confidence within yourself, to trust your instinct to make those shifts and open different doors for yourself.

Speaker 1: 28:55

Yeah, no, I 100% agree. As a matter of fact, that's one of my goals as well is to have college students enjoy the journey of college rather than focusing on the end goal. I know myself I'm very A type, and I'm used to be. A lot more was like I was so focused on the end goal that I, for I missed the journey, and so that I'm like on a mission to tell you know young community students to enjoy the process, because that that's time is very valuable and the process is valuable as well.

Speaker 1: 29:33

Exactly yeah super, super, super. Who was your biggest influencer? As you were, you know finding your career path.

Speaker 2: 29:42

There's been so many different mentors along the way, especially in these last few years, from like different podcasts, honestly, and like books, have been such a big mentorship. And someone that like people that I've looked up to yeah, even if I don't have them in person, and I think that's such a good thing to remember is that, yeah, you don't need someone physically in front of you talking to yes, that's amazing. If you do have a mentor, that is right there. But you know, sometimes you don't have a mentor, sometimes you don't have someone doing that career path that you want, but that doesn't mean that you don't have opportunities to listen and learn from these people. You just have to be a little resourceful.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Yeah, I'm so glad you shared that because, like you said, there's so many students that might actually be tuning in for that same reason. They don't have someone who they know, but that's something that they wish to to acquire. I love it. I love it. What inspires you now in your job? What is it that you love the most about?

Speaker 2: 30:52

Yeah, I it's kind of crazy because this, doing something like what I'm doing right now was always kind of a dream job for me. I remember I told my boss this in the interview.

Speaker 2: 31:06

I literally left them and one of my friends had also attended the event and I was like I think this is my dream job.

Speaker 2: 31:12

I figured it's not one of those moments.

Speaker 2: 31:15

But yeah, it's so cool to be able to bring these people together and I mean, honestly, anybody listening to this, and whatever profession or career, could easily recreate something like this because it's so needed in all these different industries.

Speaker 2: 31:33

But yeah, just knowing that, that I was able to make these small, consistent steps day to day within the journey to get here, like it can feel so mundane waking up, you know, for me I was like waking up at 5am editing the podcast, doing interviews all the weekend. You know, like Soviet is doing, but and not really knowing if it's going to pay off or if you're ever going to get to that place in your life where you feel that fulfillment and not to say about my job right now, it's amazing and everything that I've ever wanted. But it's also opened up my eyes to then like, okay, what else is possible? Or what other opportunities in the field? How can I take this new added skill set of? Now I have my design background and now I have a business development experience. I've gotten tons of new recruiters reaching out to me on LinkedIn, being like that's so unique that you know you have design and you also have business development at you know, such a young age of 31 or whatever.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:51

So yeah, you just really never know what opportunities it's going to open up down the road. Of course it can seem like a risk making that pivot or maybe not change, but you just have to listen to your gut and yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 33:10

So what qualities do you believe have made you stand out from the rest?

Speaker 2: 33:19

Yeah. Well, it kind of goes back to my fears as a beginning designer was not knowing it all. But as I progress, one of my favorite things to do is be resourceful and like help people out. We'd have these emails that go out in our firm like who knows what this product is or who knows someone who might be able to help with this, and it was kind of a game for me where I'd be like, okay, I'm going to email all my friends at these other firm and then figure it out and then be the one who like knows it and like connecting those dots for people.

Speaker 2: 33:57

But yeah, and just having a good attitude and being willing to be open, I mean you hear a lot that like don't let you know, it's who you know which. That annoyed me a ton. Graduating, I was like, well, when someone's more skilled than this other person, it's like we're all you know pretty skilled, we all went to school or we all have training or an expertise or a drive to be in this position or this career. But really, just you know, realizing that everybody is a person and trying not to be intimidated by the senior people in your firm or even your professors in college, knowing that they've also been through what you've been through and of course you want to respect them, but not putting them on a pedestal and like having that scary dynamic between the two, or really seeing them as humans, trying to do their best and treating them respectfully. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 35:07

Absolutely no. Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. What about college path? So, as somebody is interested in being an architecture or interior design, what do you recommend be the first step and what kind of education should they kind of look into?

Speaker 2: 35:26

Yeah, definitely For me. When I was looking for a college, I lived in Seattle Washington and I knew I wanted to go away for school but not be too far away from my family, like I still wanted some independent, but not like across the country by any means. And then I also knew I wanted to be at a school who had a good like a football culture, that I wanted to be in the Greek system in a sorority.

Speaker 2: 36:01

So those were kind of the non-degree related things that I was looking for and then that helped me decide like, okay, my options are Washington State, university of Idaho, oregon State and the University of Oregon is also really great at architecture. This is for the Northwest corner, correct? But my parents are big Husky University Husky fan, thought like I can't bring a dog, so for me that was kind of how I decided. And Idaho actually had a really great tuition scholarship for out of state people within, like it was called Woo-Wee, so it was Western undergraduate exchange and it was 110% of in-state tuition for out of state applicant, if that happens.

Speaker 2: 36:57

So it was actually cheaper for me to go to the University of Idaho versus going to in-state in Washington, and a lot of people don't think about Idaho as a place to go to school. I don't even think I knew it was right next to Washington, but my mom was aware that they had a good design program. Oh yeah, and I wanted to do a design program obviously. So I remember being like, well, I don't know, like no one from my high school is going to the state of Idaho for college, and my mom was like it's not where you go, it's what you make of it, and it's awesome that I was able to graduate and not have a ton of debt in student loans for it because I was saving money by going in-state or having that exchange rate and then it allowed an opportunity for me to apply to grad school.

Speaker 2: 37:57

So for interior design, interior architecture, you'll want to look for a accredited university program. So I think it's called CEDA, P-I-D-A, so it's a kind of interior design accreditation. So that would be where I'd start for interior design, looking for an accredited program.

Speaker 2: 38:24

That's more so important if you're looking to go into the commercial, you want to work in hospitality, you want to work in healthcare, you want to work in education or government or workplace because you'll be dealing with building code and to go to this accredited university you'll be learning not only just the aesthetics of design it's not all about pillows and paid colors. You're learning about the health, safety and wellness of the buildings, of the spaces you're designing. So fire code, egress, building code structure, you'll get into some architecture. So that's really important.

Speaker 2: 39:08

And then, as far as architecture similar things, they have a few different routes. Some architecture programs will do a five-year master's, it's like bachelors and masters together.

Speaker 2: 39:25

And that sets you up for your registered architecture exams, the AREs on the road and the furniture design that sets you up for their accreditation, which is NCIDQ, and those are just credentials as you graduate that you'll want to help deepen your knowledge, similar to a lawyer, does their licensure. I know my friends have taken it, but yeah, and all these different fields have licensures. So, yeah, there's a few, there's like five-year programs or six-year programs, but really I would go and visit the programs that you're interested in, talk to some professors.

Speaker 2: 40:17

Do a campus tour really see if you can envision yourself living there for four years or spending money there. For me, I just had a feeling that going to Idaho felt right, which is so bizarre. I would have never thought that I went to the University of Idaho, but it was a really great experience and right for me. Whether from the outside, people are always like why would you go there? It's a random, but it hasn't stopped me from having a career and having different opportunities down the road and really living out my path, I guess.

Speaker 1: 41:00

Yeah, yeah. And now you're a dream job. I love that you're sharing that. You said something that I love. You said it's not the degree you get, but what you do with it or how you use it and be resourceful with the people you're interacting with and that kind of thing. I love that because a lot of people feel that they're limited because they went to this school or I didn't go to the program of my first choice or whatever it is, or because of the cost. It's what you do with it and the connections you're doing from day one.

Speaker 2: 41:36

Yeah, exactly, there's that one quote. That's like whatever you look for, you find. So if you're looking for all the reasons why you didn't get into your dream school, or you don't have the resources to make it happen, or you're comparing yourself to other people, you're able to ask yourself those better questions of like, well, how can I find those connections, or what resources can help me, or how can I be creative to open these pathways? I think it's more fulfilling knowing that you're driving the ship and you're able to make those connections for yourself and really find your own pathway. And it's probably not going to be a linear. Never is yes.

Speaker 1: 42:23

But I think it's worse on that way.

Speaker 2: 42:24

Yes, imagine just getting to your point that you wanted and say you're a few years into your career and you're like, okay, cool, what's next? Yeah, I'm not going to tell the boxes.

Speaker 1: 42:41

But so, yeah, I think that affects more a type personally people like me, than my daughter, who is very creative and she can go up and down and it's not a big deal, and my son, who is very much like me. It's like, you know, I was just telling him this thought. With him, I said, you know, son, I get really, really anxious when things don't go the exact way I had it planned. And it's funny, as I was talking to him, I was telling him, you know, it's funny because at the end of the day, when I really think about it, not that big of a deal, it's just because I had set my mind to that path whether it was, you know, the things I was going to do for the day or the things I wanted to accomplish, and because I didn't need it. I, you know it gets me out of my comfort zone, but it's in that spot too that you do a lot of growing and learning. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2: 43:37

Yeah, I just want to note because I can totally see myself listening to the story and being like cool, cool. You, your parents Did the profession. You're like easy sailing, all the things, but graduating from my bachelor's, I had gotten an internship in Portland, oregon, and I was like I'm moving to Portland, this is perfect, this is my dream job. It's a big, renowned firm, luckily. And when I got there, something in my body was just like I don't know, trying to tell me something Like I would be driving to Oregon randomly, like get really emotional and you're like wait, on paper, this is what I want, but it's just not sitting with me. And then it was kind of a weird time where they had started to hire back a lot of the people that they had let go in the 2008 recession and so they were really busy, but they also were so busy that they didn't really have the time that you need to train those new people, and I felt like I was just like lost and really feeling self-conscious and had no idea what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 44:57

And one morning I got an email from the principal designer and she was like hey, so we're unable to have you work here. You can finish your hours, but you'll need to find another job. We can't pay you anymore. So I was like, oh my gosh, devastated. Yeah, let go for my internship. A few months down the road and I had thought that this was going to turn into a job, I thought that this was my new life, all the things, and in my review even it was like such a dagger to the cart. They were telling me like you need to work on your confidence, you need to work on your critical thinking, which is pretty hard for a designer to hear.

Speaker 1: 45:46

Yeah, and that's very, very tall oriented and some other things.

Speaker 2: 45:50

And, looking back, like that was the best thing that had happened to me, because I felt so alone, isolated in those first few months of my career that it really fueled this passion for me to help people like designers navigate that transition. So I don't think I would have had as much passion to start the podcast and continue on with this journey if I hadn't had such an intense experience and I know when it's happening. It was the worst thing ever. Like I was so sad.

Speaker 2: 46:25

I was always SOS googling, like how do I become a flight attendant? Like what do I do in my life? Like did I make a mistake? I was like all the things, but I was able to get through it. And I think it's so discouraging when you do have those roadblocks, but just trusting the process or whatever you believe in that, like those things happen for you and you might not know why they're happening, but they're there for a reason and like I'm so it's so funny now, like I'm so happy that happened to me, because I wouldn't have moved to New York, I wouldn't have started the podcast. Like it's really opened up. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Such a cool experience for me that like I had to go through that tough time to get through it and you know I'm stronger for it and I'm really grateful it happened we just yeah. I just remember that if you're struggling for having a tough transition, just stick with it.

Speaker 1: 47:30

Absolutely, and so you know what. I'm going to dive just a little bit into what you just shared with us. Thank you, by the way, for sharing that. You know that experience you had. What would you recommend Looking back now? What would you tell yourself right in the middle of it, right in the middle of the process?

Speaker 2: 47:50

You know I wish I could have just told myself like I know this hurt, this is painful, but, like you've gotten through things before, this is not the first challenge you've had. You literally learned how to walk, you learned how to talk, you learned how to ride a bike, like all of these huge things that we as humans do as we're growing throughout, and just know that what this is happening, you know whatever is happening right now, like you're going to become stronger because of it, and like you're not alone. You're not the only person in this world who's ever been let go from their internship. I know people aren't like leggin, like I can't let go from my internship, like people don't. Usually I talk about it a lot on podcasts because I think it's really important to share those stories. But you know that you're not alone and there are other people who have gone through that and they've been able to still do what they want to do or make a career out of it or move it by itself.

Speaker 1: 48:58

Was there someone who you felt comfortable in being just opening your heart in that time?

Speaker 2: 49:05

You know, probably Probably, my mom. Yeah, I'm a cancer sign, I'm not. My birthday is in July. So I got a very, very emotional Well, the tears my life. But yeah, I was. I mean, I was very lucky that they were either to support me. I moved in with them, moved back from Portland, slept in the basement, worked at Starbucks for a few months, and that's when I decided that I wanted to apply to grad school and really make a big change and have the opportunity to travel for a little bit, which is something that I wanted to do, which I wouldn't have been able to do if I had just stuck on that from trajectory. So, really trying to make the most of it. You can find some cheap flights out there. Going to Europe isn't as scary as it might be, but you just learn so much about yourself when you're on those adventures and really allowing your time some space. So even if you do take a gap year just now that you can come back and jump right back in or figure it out.

Speaker 2: 50:13

So, allowing yourself that grace.

Speaker 1: 50:16

That's awesome and I appreciate you also bringing it back to your parents, because we have parents listening too and sometimes they need to hear the message as well and how to support their child in those moments.

Speaker 1: 50:29

You know when it doesn't go as planned and just keep going. You know that's one of the most important things, especially now with mental health being such a big thing and a big topic. I know you know, as I'm a mom, you know I share a lot of stories about being a mom. But you know, with my children as well, letting them know it's you know, understand what they're feeling, but also letting them know that you're not disappointed and you're actually encouraging them to continue going. Because I know my son, for example, is very hard on himself. I mean, even just a sport if he doesn't play the way he expected, he is very hard on himself and sometimes I have to remind him it's just a game and I want you to enjoy it. You know when it becomes, you know, not fun anymore and you're just focusing on excellence or perfectionism at that point, then you kind of stop enjoying it.

Speaker 2: 51:27

Yeah, totally, and I think, just being vulnerable with them. This is like, obviously I don't have kids, but recently I did find out that my mom also had been let go from one of her jobs and she didn't tell me for a year and then I started you know this job I'm talking and like reaching out with people that she knew when she was working in the industry. Oh yeah, and kind of was like oh, I was at home for one of the dinners and we've been talking about someone and she was like, okay, I just have to tell you that like this, did you ever wonder why I left that job? And I was like no, I never.

Speaker 2: 52:09

I never even thought about it. I just thought you were wanting to make a pivot and you were wanting to try something new. And so she, she then shared with me what had happened. And you know I'm not like mad at her or embarrassed at her, but it really was that moment like we do kind of start to put these people on pedestals, but there's so much power in being authentic and vulnerable and letting them know that like you struggled to, but you were able to figure it out and you're there with them, standing by their side and you know, but whatever is going to happen and it's going to work out.

Speaker 1: 52:49

So yeah, oh, my gosh, perfectly said because that's that's very true, and I think I mentioned this in one of my episodes a little bit ago that sometimes children are have a little bit of a hard time in opening up to us parents, when we make our life seem like we've never had issues, like it's always been perfectly aligned and we do so. Well, you know we do everything great that they don't see the hard times, or we don't talk about the hard times, that then you know they they close themselves to opening up to you. Like how can I share this with my mom or my dad if they've never struggled? Everything came out perfectly fine for them. So I really appreciate that story because it it being vulnerable, especially as parents, is the best thing we can do for our children. Last question, just a little bit of a fun fact about you Can you tell us what your favorite thing is to do to decompress, or maybe a favorite book you want to recommend?

Speaker 2: 53:57

A book that I'm reading that I really enjoy. That's very much like an older sibling just telling you to like those tough truths is the mountain, is you? It's pretty short but it. It's those things you know you need to do. But someone just needs to kind of tell you to like get out of your own way and do that. I would recommend that to anyone who's looking for a good mindset growth. I love it.

Speaker 1: 54:27

I love it. Oh, thank you so much, kelsey, for being here with us and we'll add on the show notes the book recommendation and, if anybody wants to connect with you, where is your favorite spot to be at?

Speaker 2: 54:42

Yeah, definitely. So if you're interested in design, please send me a message through the studio chat podcast. So studio chats it's a podcast design podcast that I have and I know it will be in the show notes. The studiochat on Instagram and then my personal Instagram is one see two another which we can put in the show notes as well. But if you're interested in coming, come say hello. I'd love to get to know you Always interested in helping out, especially the next generation. So, yeah, feel free to reach out and thank you so much for listening and being part of this.

Speaker 1: 55:24

Awesome, Kelsey. Thank you so much and we'll be in touch soon. Yeah, thank you so much, Sonia.