57. Youth Suicide Prevention and Mental Health: An Open Conversation w/ AnneMoss Rogers

This episode deals with suicide & suicide prevention. It’s a sensitive, yet important topic, please listen with care.

Our journey today takes us to the heart of a topic that affects us all but is often shrouded in silence - suicide prevention &  mental health awareness. We are honored to have AnneMoss Rogers, an acclaimed author and spokesperson, bravely and candidly shares her personal experiences navigating the mental health and addiction struggles of her son, which tragically led to his suicide. Her resilience and courage in shedding light on this issue form the backdrop of our conversation as we dive into the complex world of youth suicide, and how as a community, we can extend our support to those in need.

The conversation addresses crucial topics such as parenting strategies for communication and resilience, dispelling misconceptions about suicide, and highlighting the role of grief in the healing process. AnneMoss provides practical insights on reframing negative self-labeling and recognizing signs of overwhelm, offering valuable advice for parents, students and educators. The episode concludes with a focus on coping strategies and identifying signs of depression in students. The goal is to raise awareness, share knowledge, and most importantly, instill a sense of hope and connection for those grappling with mental health issues.

AnneMoss’ resources + The Coping Card:
https://mentalhealthawarenesseducation.com/mental-health-books/
Website: https://mentalhealthawarnesseducation.com  
TEDx – Can a Blog Save Lives?    https://youtu.be/H6Xm7-MAwZ4?si=Ou59v_AZ0Jfb0on3
Coping Strategies for Grief Loss http://copingwithchildloss.com
Suicide hotlines: https://annemoss.com/resources-2/suicide/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the College and Career Ready podcast. My goal is always to bring you some of the best speakers, mentors and experts in the field to walk this journey with you, and this podcast is all about college and career readiness. But something that is quickly overlooked is the necessity to bring awareness to the mental health crisis affecting our youth today and friends. This is not a topic to shy away from, but rather one to lean into so we can be armed with the tools, resources and mentors who can help us in time of need. Since starting this podcast, I have been wanting to speak about a very important topic, especially for our youth and parents, and that is suicide and suicide prevention strategies. I have mentioned suicide prevention briefly in other episodes, but today, my friend, we are going to have a full episode on this very important topic. We cannot blind ourselves thinking that we can continue to brush over this topic when it is actually affecting many of our loved ones, big and small, and that is why I am truly honored to have as our guests today Ann Moss Rogers.

Speaker 1: 1:13

She is the author of the award-winning memoir Diary of a Broken Mind and the Best Seller Emotionally Naked Teacher's Guide to Preventing Suicide and Recognizing Students at Risk with co-writer Dr Kimberly O'Brien. She has been a TEDx speaker, was featured in New York Times Variety Magazine and was the first non-clinician invited to speak on youth suicide at the National Institute of Mental Health. Welcome Ann Moss to the College and Career Ready podcast. Thank you for being here with us today. Thank you so much. Can you introduce yourself a little more to our audience and give us a brief bio on what led you to be an expert and spokesperson on suicide and suicide prevention?

Speaker 2: 1:59

Back in 2010,. I was noticing that my son was struggling and I knew there were some mental health issues and I wasn't sure exactly what there were and I wasn't getting a lot of answers and I wasn't finding a lot of support groups. We had a therapist. My husband and I were going to figure out what to do for our son. I joined an organization, a youth mental health organization, because I just needed other people who were rallying around this topic, so that's where my interest in youth mental health began.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Fast forward a few years and my son's depression and anxiety started to escalate, and with that he was drugging alcohol news. I would find out later that my son was depressed, he was struggling with thoughts of suicide, and the drugs and alcohol were there to numb those feelings and to make him feel more normal. He also struggled with sleep, and so his argument was if I do these, it'll help me sleep. But some of you know how that doesn't turn out in the air. Right, we would do wilderness therapeutic boarding school. He would come back home and I thought he was going to at least utilize some of the tools he had learned while he was away. And that really didn't happen and he went back to using drugs and alcohol. We would enroll him in a community college. I should see if that was his next move, and I wasn't sure it was.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Charles was really intelligent, but I don't know that. The rigors of college and the whole thing. He struggled with that in high school. He just didn't want to do it and I wasn't going to have that same experience all through college and I was fine with him finding some other step. But I kept thinking the magic was. All he needed to do was get a job. And he finally did get a job and guess what? It helped him pay for more drugs and he became addicted to heroin and it would be, I think 10 months after he started using heroin he would end up killing himself.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Now this was the funniest, most popular kid in school and my first thought when it happened was I'm a really terrible mother. I cannot see that my child was struggling so much and a lot of people out there think, oh, this isn't a problem that I have my kid's not going to do that. But it happens to star athletes, it happens to kids who are quiet. It happens to kids of color, white kids, lgbtq kids. It is across the board and it is the second leading cause of debt for college students and that's a pretty scary place to be If you think of it, from 10 to 34 years old. In some areas it's a little higher, in some areas it's a little lower, but it's definitely very prevalent and this whole mental health issue is very prevalent and we're still not really paying as much attention or preparing our children with the coping skills they need to move forward in an environment that is as challenging as college.

Speaker 2: 6:02

So that transition, the one from high school to college and college to real life, are the big ones, and when we go through transitions we're all uncomfortable, a little bit more anxious, maybe a little bit more depressed, we may be excited too at the same time, and both those emotions can be happening at the same time.

Speaker 2: 6:28

But what we know with young people is their brains have not fully developed at this time and as a result of that, they are more prone to feel that anxiety and depression and if they don't have the coping skills to manage it and they don't expect it it can be very overwhelming. I've just presented to a group of 500 freshmen at a university and a number of the students came down and talked to me after my presentation to the student body. They were just so overwhelmed and they had started off really excited. I got in, this is great and then they just felt completely under water and overwhelmed. And when you do that, sometimes you freeze and then you get behind and then it's like I'm failing and the only way to dig my way out of this is to kill myself. And that's just one reason. And suicide is a result of a constellation of issues that converge all at once, so that transition just makes them more is that last straw event that can push an already vulnerable person towards suicide.

Speaker 1: 7:56

I'm just blown away with the information you are sharing here with us. Let me ask you this we know transitions are hard. Coping skills are important. What can we do as parents, as educators, to help with the coping skills before big transitions like these take place?

Speaker 2: 8:21

I think the first thing is listen more and lecture less. We tend to talk at our children. We have all the answers and we're always grabbing for solutions and wanting to solve things. What if we shut up for a change? I was many years ago and one of my sons was saying something about me lecturing and how annoying it was. I looked at him and I'm like you're right. I remember the look on his face. Like I am, I'm right about something. You've got to be kidding me.

Speaker 2: 11:11

I said I need to break that habit. You all help me. They're like you'll never stop. I'm like, yeah, but I need help. I'm asking you are you willing to help? I'm like what do you want us to do? That's every time I do that lecture mode. Why don't you tell me that's unsolicited advice. I'm going to shut up and go, laugh at myself and go oh my gosh, you're right. Then I'm going to listen to you and I'm not going to lecture anymore. It took. Usually breaking a habit takes about 18 months, I'd say close to eight weeks. I was done because they were helping me, they were calling me on it. I got embarrassing. It was like oh my gosh, I really am.

Speaker 1: 12:02

Plenty of repetition, plenty of repetition, papa.

Speaker 2: 12:05

I'll see you in a while. I started going from that sort of punitive parenting to being more of a wisdom guy. I started asking more questions. I think that's a really important place. Before I get to the asking more questions, I think we also need to be vulnerable to Don't mean with big, giant, scary things that really overwhelm them, Like we're going to lose the house Sometimes you have, but that's just the way it is.

Speaker 2: 12:46

I'm changing jobs. I've worked a new job. I'm really anxious. Could you give me a random hug every once in a while. I've been really angry and irritable these last few days. I'm taking it out on you and I'm really embarrassed about that. Just want you to know that I'm angry and irritable not because of you, but because this anxiety I feel about starting this new job, because I want to do a good job. I also want to like it, because I didn't like my last job.

Speaker 2: 13:23

What's interesting about that is that I was speaking to a mother at a nine and 12 year old and I said just tell your kids to give you a random hug when they notice you're getting angry and irritable. She did and they loved it, because when a child hugs you and you have that relaxed, calm feeling, because let me tell you what parents not going to melt like butter right, yes, I'm going to turn into Jell-O You're going to totally love that. They feel that You're giving that child power. You're giving them the power of, oh, I matter what I'm doing. Is this meant? Something that's really important, especially since it's going to be taking on more responsibilities. That builds your confidence without you sitting there like a cheerleader on the sideline going you're so smart, you're so pretty. We need to do it in ways that are real and that they can feel and understand. I will say that Jen, this friend of mine I was talking about her kids, took it one step further. She started this new job and she opened her lunch the first day and her daughter had put a note in her lunch that said Mom, I don't want you to be anxious today. I love you so much. Just put a long note. The next day the nine-year-old put the note in the lunch. She said it was like one sentence she did. He said he's worn to brevity. They did this for two weeks. She was able to come home and tell them how much this note's knit Again. That creates connection, that says you're important. It also says you helped me and it's okay if I ask for help. You're modeling that help seeking.

Speaker 2: 15:36

Then the questions. Let's say they do really poorly on a task. Then you say I'm so put that first, I'm so sorry. That must be really hard. What do you think you'll do differently next time? Do you think it's study skills? Do you think you weren't prepared enough at all? How did it once? Add you, they may not have the answer to that question right then, but again, that's what you want to do. You want to plant that seed in their head so that they remember it and they will start to think about it and then they start to develop those problem-solving skills.

Speaker 1: 16:20

I love that because I have actually used this strategy myself and they're not giving their 10-year-olds and they're not giving me answers. I feel like I need to give them the answer, but I like that you said that we're planting that seed. Even though we're not seeing it right now, over the course of time they will have that implanted in them that they can remember it whenever they need it.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Your extroverts are often going to answer right away and lots of times it might not be the right answer. If that's the case, you don't correct them, you just ask more questions. Let them come to the answer by themselves. If it's a small price tag thing, let them learn the hard way. I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2: 17:14

My son was moving out to California. He called me and he said we're going to move all our stuff there. There's stuff we weren't that much. I thought the first thing. I'm like you don't want to haul all that junk. I said blah, blah, blah. I kept my mouth shut. I said oh wow, how are you going to do it? He goes I think I'll just call a movie company. I said let me know how much that is, because I'm curious. Also, where would you put it once you got there? Because he said you were cat surfing when you first got there to find a place to live. He didn't say anything. We talked about other things. When we in the call, my husband started laughing there, no, all that stuff across the country. If they did, I would have let them learn the hard way. It's all the breakdown. That never happened. He called me back.

Speaker 2: 18:15

We talked before then, but it is about two weeks later. He said I call the movie company, your mom and be like $6,000 to move to the house, because it's not worth that. I'm like for real, that's a lot of money. He goes where else. When I got there would be $200 a month. He said for one minute I'm like you're kidding me. That's crazy. I said, how about? He's a little math guy. I added it all up. I can't afford that. We're going to sell all of our stuff or give it away. I'm like that's a really smart decision. I didn't go back and go.

Speaker 2: 18:58

Yeah, I don't know that I told you because, number one, I didn't tell him that's right, that's right. He felt like he arrived at that solution all by himself.

Speaker 1: 19:11

I love that. I love that I feel like, as parents, we're so rushed to have an answer Right then and there, when in fact it might not necessarily be needed right in the moment, where parents are so anxious to get an answer right then and there, but it might not be needed, it might take a couple of days for the child to think about it. Some things are just not that urgent, as you mentioned.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Sometimes you just have to let it sit.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:38

That is a lesson in patience. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine and she's talking to her son. Unfortunately, she's put a lot of scaffolding under over the years. He's gone off to college and now he doesn't know how to do anything. Now that he was real close to graduation he ended up dropping out a year and a half before he's done Because he just couldn't handle all the stuff anymore and because it had always been done for him. So we need to let our kids learn from their mistakes, because that's where success lies. So you look at all the successful people in the world. What they did is cobbled together all those things that they learned from failure and it could become a success. And that's what people don't understand. They don't talk about their failures enough and what they learn from this, except when you talk about it every day, because it does. There was a time when I thought my son's suicide was an epic failure on my part, and that's the way I looked at it and I had to refrain, not over time.

Speaker 1: 21:08

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 21:09

I didn't want to yeah. What a journey. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Speaker 1: 21:15

Yeah, and I'm so honored for you to take this time to speak so publicly about it, and I am going to ask you some questions about a little further on when someone does experience a friend or family member who commits suicide. But before we get to that, what are the most common misconceptions about suicide?

Speaker 2: 21:37

If they say they're thinking about it, then oh, number one is talking about suicide and give them the idea it will not. But I will say that being exposed to a suicide at a school does raise their risk. Being exposed to a suicide like it runs in your family, within a family, can raise somebody's risk. Having a previous suicide attempt and 90% of parents are unaware of a child's previous suicide attempt that also raises risk, and I think those are important things that we need to keep in mind.

Speaker 1: 22:21

OK, absolutely. What about high risk? So if you know of someone that is high risk for suicide, is there anything differently that you would do with them? Or you would suggest to the parents or those close to them to do?

Speaker 2: 22:36

I'd say the first thing is let's say you know you have a high risk child who's going off to college and really map out. I think one thing is keep the routine at home before they leave and also make sure that at school they know of all the resources they have Find out the campus resources.

Speaker 2: 23:04

Where are they? What are those numbers? Get those 988 type numbers that are on campus? I think are really important.

Speaker 2: 23:14

I usually like to do a coping card with kids. So how are you going to cope with the situation? What's important to you in life? What trusted adults would you talk to if you start to feel overwhelmed? Because what's happening is things start to happen and it's not a crisis, and then they're not talking about it and it starts to take up more brain real estate and then, all of a sudden, it's all they can think about it, and then they think the only way I can get out of this is to take my life. I'm done, there's just no way out. And so we need to start to recognize those signs early, when somebody gets overwhelmed, and we don't need to cheerlead them. That's, you can do this. Do you really feel like you're overwhelmed? Maybe you go see the advisor, your student advisor, and you talk to that student advisor about your workload. Maybe there are study groups on campus, because a lot of kids, especially at the university you just went to those who are top tier kids they were like top 1%.

Speaker 2: 24:26

And now they're at college with everybody else. That was top 1%.

Speaker 1: 24:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:33

And all of a sudden they feel stupid and they think, oh, everybody else has got it together and has figured all this out and they haven't. And it's just totally and completely overwhelming. I think, really having that frank discussion about if you are struggling, hear the resources and let's think of two trusted adults that you would reach out to Also make sure that 988 and the crisis text line 741 is in their phone. If they have had past ideation, how about a code word, because it might get old? If you're worried about your child being away from college, you're going to text them like every day, are you okay, are you?

Speaker 2: 25:29

okay, that doesn't help. Yeah, you want to figure out what is a code word that you can have as a family that you all understand. That means I'm really close to a crisis point or I am a crisis and whatever. One kid said, my toenails are blue and nobody. If he said that in public, nobody thought of anything about it. Maybe they laughed about it or whatever. But the mom knew and then she could put into place whatever kind of plan that she has together. I think it's important that we don't panic and that we don't constantly have this worry or imagination. Why worry about something that's not happened? You're just going to lose sleep over something that's not happened. Stay in the present and trust the process. The good things is, you knew Anybody that has had a child who struggles. I didn't know, I didn't get that chance, I didn't get a chance to have that conversation ever. And if you did count yourself lucky and find out everything, you can that's true about Susanne and go to credible sites to do so.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Absolutely. Tell me more about the coping card. Can you give us again what should be or what you recommend on the coping card?

Speaker 2: 27:11

I don't have one in front of me, but at the top is what's the most important in your life, or things that you live for every day. I usually don't say family, my dog, my YouTube channel. You want one of. You want at least two. One of those things. The third one to refer to a past event that triggers good memories. I was in Vienna in 1998 online because I was eating dinner in a castle. We had the magic table that night. It was a beautiful dinner. We got to work fancy places. It was just an amazing night where we laughed the whole time.

Speaker 2: 27:59

And as soon as I trigger that thought, it resets my brain. The other is two trusted adults who would I talk to for struggling or even in crisis, and it could be somebody on campus, it could be an aunt or an uncle. It's not necessarily a parent. A parent can do one of them, but not necessarily. And then you want to have on their coping strategies for when you feel anxious, depressed. What are some healthy coping strategies? Because I don't all. Ain't it. Alcohol, ain't it? Because what those do is rob you of the ability to develop healthy coping strategies. Is it running? Is it meditation? One kid put reading fart jokes, so it doesn't have to be your okay. Journaling is great, but those are your typical ones with people who say rock climbing, biking, reading fart jokes. One kid does beekeeping and he, of course, went out of college at the agricultural schools.

Speaker 2: 29:20

And that he started a beekeeping project there and he liked the way they connected with each other and worked with each other in a group. He loved watching that.

Speaker 2: 29:35

And connection. Oh, and I didn't want to mention something. So we talked about transitions. Do not ignore mini transition, that is, leaving for spring break and coming back, leaving for the holidays and coming back Fall break. Yeah, what I've noticed lately and this is anecdotal is it seems to be the coming back from home, back to school, from my support network to one where I'm not don't have this solid footing in and oftentimes will come back to school and they'll kill themselves, not that day or a couple of days later, to be. I've just got a call today. The child's giving away possessions. He's told his parents he wants to die. They were saying he's just doing that for attention. Give them the attention.

Speaker 2: 30:40

Yes, you don't find out with a phone call from the police that they were serious. Take every threat seriously, because they are trying to tell you. If they can't tell you directly and you're not going to listen, then what are they going to do?

Speaker 1: 31:01

Yeah, absolutely, and you bring up a great topic that I want to ask your question about what, if you do get that alarm call, what is your first reaction? Liza Perron, now we're not talking about preventative strategies, because it was before, but we get the call, we know something's not right. What do we do?

Speaker 2: 31:24

All right, you feeling in your gut and something is in this child is in despair and there may not be saying I want to end it all, but they're like I'm so overwhelmed I just can't do this anymore. But that's okay, I have a plan. I don't feel like I'm a real burden. Bingo, you're going to say a lot of times, when people are feeling that overwhelmed and they say things like they're a burden, they're thinking about suicide. So I have to ask you the question are you thinking of suicide? You have to ask that question directly Are you thinking of suicide? Are you thinking of killing yourself? You do not say are you thinking of harming yourself?

Speaker 2: 32:16

You must say it directly because it's likely those things that they were saying are invitations for you to ask and oftentimes they're relieved Finally somebody got it. Somebody asked me the question because lots of times they've been carrying this around for a very long time and oftentimes, just having that conversation, there's the balloon in their head. It's taken up all that real estate. Right, they talk about the era. The balloon goes down. They got all this real estate and room in their brain again they can think it's relief it's out there. They're not carrying it as a burden all to themselves and you want to get them to a place where it's not an emergency. So you want to figure out what are the campus resources, and so you may need to be on the phone. Try to keep them on the phone because you want somebody with them or you want them to check in with somebody. But if you check with the university's 24-7 crisis line, they'll tell you the next steps. So most of them have some kind of crisis situation and you don't want to call 911 unless they're drunk, they've taken something and they make that sound really scary and you feel like you don't have any other recourse. That is a 911 call If they are talking to you about it. That is not usually a 911 or a campus police call, but it is a crisis line call.

Speaker 2: 34:14

First thing, you do not want to panic if they say yes, you've asked the question. Are you thinking of suicide? Take a deep breath, because you feel like the whole weight of the world is on you and I want you to stay in the present and I want you to trust this process. You're here, this is your child and you're going to be a partner and that's no matter what. Tell me how long you felt this way. I'm listening and then, sonia, you shut up and if there's a long stretch of silence, let it sit there. They're processing how to tell you.

Speaker 2: 35:01

We often want Google instant answers or AI instant answers, and we're not patient. Let those seconds go by. Do not fill it with a lecture. Do not say you have so much to live for, we're not there. We have to meet them where they are and if that is in darkness and despair, that's where we need to go. You'll find it strangely empowering to allow that person to feel heard. He or she has likely, or they have likely, told or hinted to a number of people and no one has picked up on it, and so you happen to, and they desperately, let me tell you, they desperately want to talk about it. I know because they reach out to me online and they tell me I've actually supported people through YouTube comments Wow, and they'll come back two years later and say Thanks to you, I'm doing. Okay, I really wanted to end it.

Speaker 1: 36:08

Wow, from what you shared with me. I think it's so important as parents not only to give the resources to the student, especially as they transition to college, but us have available those resources and those phone numbers to dial, should we need to add a moments notice.

Speaker 2: 36:27

I agree. I think that after they told you, then we need to figure out what's that. You've probably hopefully looked up. What is the protocol at the university? I did that with my older son when he went to college. I went now looked up with prices. Protocol was Charles hadn't even nothing that happened with him and I didn't think about suicide.

Speaker 2: 36:54

But I thought, if we have an emotional crisis because I was really depressed my first year in college never suffered from depression in my life, let me tell you. I was so overwhelmed I thought this isn't for me. How am I going to make it? It was tough and I had not forgotten that. So I went and figured out all the resources we he would call me a junior year and say, mom, I just feel really blue. This is my older son. Okay, I just can't seem to get out of this right. And I let him talk. And then I said let's figure out what next steps are. I said I did look this up and this is the protocol. How does that sound? You should let them be a partner in that process and we don't want to do it for them. And it may be like in the story about one college student. I would do a podcast similar to this and a teacher was listening and her son from college would call her that night.

Speaker 2: 38:00

And he said some of those red flag things we talked about in the podcast and she said, are you thinking of suicide? And he said yes, and she was like oh my gosh. And then she said we got him settled down. He wasn't happy, but he wasn't in that ugly place. He was. Episodes have a limited time and they were able to make this side that the next day together that he would call the academic advisor and take another look at his schedule and start to get some support in there. That's what they're there for. They want you to graduate, they want you to get good grades and get a job and they know, in order to help that make that happen, they've got to have supports and resources on campus and most college campuses have that.

Speaker 1: 38:59

Yes, absolutely, and often they're free. Yes, and that's actually something that I advocate and talk about constantly on the podcast is that the high school level, the resources come to you, but at the college, the resources are still there, but you have to go to the resources, you have to find those resources.

Speaker 2: 39:22

I believe in every case, the resources should go to them, and this is actually not having to do with school, but it's probably one of the best examples of meeting people where they are. But guy named Lorenzo Lewis started the confess project and he focuses on African American men and African American boys and he does is. He trains barbers and barber shops to be that screener for mental health issues, how to respond, what to do next and because that relationship is already established, they go get an haircut.

Speaker 2: 40:06

They're talking to the guy, they already have that trusted alliance and it's just a beautiful example of meeting people where they are.

Speaker 2: 40:17

A lot of times expecting a student to go to the counseling center. It's just a little bit, just doesn't make any sense. So if they're in the student union, then we need to be going to the student union and trying out different things we need to have. Maybe we have a bunch of parents come in and we're giving out hugs today. Anybody want to talk about their difficult week out. We're here to hug and listen. Pat your name. We're not going to solve anything, but at least you get to talk about it and somebody hears you. Maybe you have a grief group. What we need more than anything is connection and belonging. That is the number one culture for suicide prevention is finding that group of people. That, because some college campuses had 25,000 people.

Speaker 1: 41:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 41:20

Where your peeps.

Speaker 1: 41:22

Yes.

Speaker 2: 41:23

There was a child on the autism spectrum and he was learning Russian and he decided to start something in college and he had been suicidal this whole lot. He went to college, he started this Russian tea room and other students who are either Russian already or were learning Russian and what a tough time to be doing that right. They ended up. He started bonding that the cane hit. Those were his peeps. They all connected. Find your people. Somehow. There's so many groups you want that connection and belonging right at the get go, and that may not necessarily be a fraternity or sorority. That can be a little overwhelming, especially if it's Russian parties. Then it's that whole image thing and you know rowing things like that smaller group of people that you can connect with.

Speaker 1: 42:31

Absolutely. I love that. I love that. And when you were mentioning coping skills, just a little note for our parents out there that's something you can do today is helping your child, whether they're in high school or in college, is help identify those coping skills early on, so they have resources and tools and know what works for them, because what works for me might not work for and must and must might have skills that don't work for Sonia.

Speaker 2: 42:57

Yeah, you need to sleep, you need to eat right, you need to, you need connection and there's one other, but those are the foundational things that need to be happening in your life.

Speaker 1: 43:11

Minimum.

Speaker 2: 43:13

To you lots coping strategies, then the absolute most important strategy that's the baseline strategy for all of them is learning to pause, is learning not to react because of what your emotional state is. To take that deep breath, look at this gives you a chance to look at that situation. If you're angry and you lash out, you're not likely going to make any friends that way and with our kids who have the impulse control issues, that's going to take longer and lots of times. We have to model that. You know that take a deep breath before you get angry, like when my kids would see me go and they called it mom sigh. But I learned, especially my older child, my younger one was away and placement a lot of that time, but he's modeling it. I wasn't modeling at all purpose for him, but he saw that I was taking pause before I reacted.

Speaker 1: 44:22

I love that. I love that. I think a lot of parents could definitely take that word, words of advice, right there and don't slowing down and really accepting silence by its time, processing time. And, maas, let me ask you this what if we hear our child label themselves like I'm stupid, I'm so dumb? How can we reframe it?

Speaker 2: 44:46

I think the first thing we do is what makes you say that? And we ask with empathy and curiosity. We don't. This is where parents want to dive in and cheerlead the batter. Oh, I know what I can do. I can just push him into the light. And we need to find out what are their fears and what, and we need to appreciate what they are, because we can't ask the right questions until we know the answers to what is under all that.

Speaker 2: 45:21

Why do you feel like you're stupid? I've gone to college and mom, everybody is so smart. Oh my gosh, that must be really overwhelming. Because you were the top of the class and now you go in with all these other people who are top of the class. I hadn't been, say, I hadn't really thought about that. Are there any specific examples that make you feel stupid? And then you can say what do you think you'll do about that? What are some potential solutions Do you think? And they may not answer, but at least they'll think about it and at least they've gotten it out of their head.

Speaker 2: 46:07

Here's the big thing. They feel hurt. You didn't start throwing solutions. You need to go exercise more. You need to drink less coffee. Don't give them it. I do not do this anymore, ever in a habit, and over a decade, and it was alert and it's natural now, but every once in a while I can hear it in the back of my head and I'm like throw it water. I'm like nope, he's going to solve this. This is up to him, because people are going to take ownership of the ideas that they come up with themselves as special teens and young adults.

Speaker 1: 46:53

Absolutely. One of my last questions, Ann Moss, is what do we do if our child has experienced or seen or have lost someone that has died by suicide? And I believe am I using the correct terms, Because I know there's a way to say it that is correct.

Speaker 2: 47:13

Thank you for not using committed because it is a public health issue, not a crime.

Speaker 2: 47:19

So you want to say died by suicide, killed himself, took his life. We want to give that. We just don't need to stigmatize it further. So you're talking about grief. That is what we call a relationship disruption, and we know that. So we have the transition being a potential last straw that could push people towards suicide. Relationship disruption does that too. So it could be a romantic breakout, it could be a fight with somebody, but a big one is losing a loved one to any cause of death, but losing someone to suicide, for whatever reason, that does put the idea in a lot of kids heads. It's. It now has become an option for my toolbox of a way to resolve a problem because Jamie's no longer here and therefore all of his problems are solved.

Speaker 2: 48:19

I think we need to address grief in a way. We don't need to glaze through it and pretend it's not real. People need to feel great. You cannot heal if you can't feel. And so we can say, as a parent, the recent suicide at State University from any state was to be Ohio, it could be California. That's really upset me. It has me scared, but I'm thinking a lot about those parents today. I know how I feel about it. I'm wondering how you might feel about it and just see if you can get them to start talking.

Speaker 2: 49:08

I think that professors and teachers I usually train professors and teachers to talk about it how to talk about grief events, how to talk about how to prevent, how to intervene. I like to talk to the parents of universities and schools, I like to talk to the teachers and I like to talk to the students. That's the triangle. Then we're covering all of our bases and having everybody prepared, but a lot of times schools want to have a mental health day and just call school off. What are you doing? You're isolating kids. If you know that they called off school, go up there, make sure you call, ask what they're doing, because the kids who are struggling will start to isolate and that's how contagion happens. Is that we're not paying enough attention to the grief part of it. I encourage universities to have some kind of get together and whatever they want to call it. Oftentimes there's a lot of debate. What should we call it? Just call it a wellness event and you want to remember the student.

Speaker 2: 50:31

You don't want to make it a hero or romanticize it, but you want to acknowledge the pain and the grief and get people to start talking about it, because if it's a lot all inside, that's not going to help. But as a parent, you need to address it and start with. I know how it makes me feel, but I'd love to hear how it makes you feel too. You be vulnerable first. You put yourself on the line and hopefully, if you've done that a while, they'll open up to me. Mel or Son they'll tell me anything now because he feels hurt. I'm not going to give him advice and I'm not going to put him down or tell him what he needs to do. So you trust me now and he'll tell me anything, which is really nice. It took me a while to figure that out.

Speaker 1: 51:30

Thank you for building our parents with tools, resources, to have this conversation here with us. Can you tell our parents where they can connect with you, where you might have resources for them, because I do know you have plenty, and this is to all our audience listeners, parents, teachers, students. You have a lot of free resources out there, so can you tell us more about that?

Speaker 2: 51:51

I do. If you look up mental health awareness education, if you go to that website and click on books, you'll see my books and then you'll scroll down to free ebooks and I have a library like 20, and my child is suicidal. What do I do now? The transition of back to school it gives that's a two-pager Signs of depression and it includes ones that I saw in my son that I talked about very often, but I see them often in people like the going to the school nurse a lot. So to talk about the ones you do know and hear about, but also give you examples of what to say and I have people come into my site downloading those resources every day and the coping card is also there.

Speaker 2: 52:52

Hugely popular oh my gosh. I put it out there in a day at a thousand downloads, incredibly popular. And do that as a family. You have to do it too as parents.

Speaker 1: 53:06

So thank you for sharing that, and I'm actually going to have a link specifically to the coping card. We want to make sure parents access that, because that is something that, if we say there is one thing you can do today, that's the number one thing Visit and websites. Is there any other place people can find you or connect with you?

Speaker 2: 53:26

Oh, I'm usually on LinkedIn Most of all, so please follow or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter but and on YouTube, but I mostly focus on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 53:40

Awesome. Thank you so much, anmos, for your time, for your generosity. My heart goes out to you, for you, and I'm sorry about your loss with your son, charles, but he's forever living in the story and in the lives that you are changing every single day by just being so open and honest and generous with our parents, students, teachers and educators.

Speaker 2: 54:02

Thank you, sonya, I really appreciate you having me today.

Speaker 1: 54:06

Thank you, Anmos.