Episode 170: Thom King CEO of Steviva Foods ON Keto, Biohacks, and The Food Industry

In this episode of the Ketones and Coffee Podcast, Lorenz invites returning guest Thom King, CEO of Steviva Brands and Icon Foods, author of 'Guy Gone Keto', and a keto lifestyle enthusiast. The discussion covers a wide range of topics including King's personal experience with gaining weight during COVID-19, the impact of stress on dietary habits, and his journey back to health using keto principles combined with innovative biohacks. 

King shares insights on the challenges of maintaining a keto lifestyle, the exploration of peptides like semaglutide for weight loss, and his experiments with GLP-1 agonists and keto supplementation. The conversation also delves into broader topics such as the importance of ingredient awareness, the personal legacy through knowledge, the evolving food industry, and philosophical musings on life, commitment, and the human experience. Tom King's evolving role from CEO to Chief Innovations Officer, and his perspectives on creating a community through vulnerability and leadership, are highlighted towards the end.

00:00 Welcome to the Ketones and Coffee Podcast with Tom King

00:41 Reflecting on COVID-19's Impact on Health and Lifestyle

01:57 Tom King's Journey with Keto and COVID-19 Challenges

04:29 Exploring Weight Loss Hacks and Semaglutide Experience

06:43 Combining Keto with GLP-1 Agonists for Optimal Results

13:46 Tom King's Future Plans and Thoughts on Legacy

19:28 The Power of Vulnerability and Community in Overcoming Challenges

27:52 Navigating the Food Industry and Making Informed Choices

32:51 The Science of Sweeteners: Monk Fruit, Stevia, and Artificial Alternatives

33:35 The Impact of Artificial Sweeteners on Metabolism and Hunger

36:57 Exploring Dietary Choices: Vegan, Keto, and Carnivore Diets

41:15 The Carnivore Diet: An Ultimate Elimination Diet for Healing

48:17 Personal Triumphs and the Power of Dietary Choices

51:42 Philosophical Musings on Life, Purpose, and the Universe

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Transcript

0:49

Hey guys, we've got a special episode here for you. This is my interview with Tom king. The CEO, us Devi or rants. And icon foods. Author of Geigen. Quito and they keto lifestyle enthusiastic the conversation, revolved around Tom's experience and gaining weight during COVID-19 also the impact of stress on that, their habits and his journey back to health using cuter principles. Combined with innovative biohacks. Then we talked about the evolving food industry and then just the human experience in general. And it's always a pleasure talking with Tom here. Very Atlanta stuff here, guys, without further ado. Here's my interview with Tom king.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:30

I'm so excited for this guy stick around today. We have a special guest joining us, Tom King. He is the founder and CEO of. Staviva Brands and Icon Foods and an author he wrote the book titled Guy Gone Keto. He's also the guy behind the Guy Gone Keto brand, the Keto scientist himself, Tom King. Tom, welcome to, welcome back to the Ketones and Coffee Podcast, I should say.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:55

Thanks, Lorenz. I totally appreciate it. It's been a while. So we were talking before the show started, you said 2021. And then, I mean, I started like reflecting back like three years and it's like, wow, it's like

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 2:09

went by. It went by just like that, isn't it?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 2:12

It went by, it went by, but so much happened, like so many things, like, you know, with COVID and all of the sort of side effects of COVID, like people gaining weight. You know, and people calling it the COVID 19 weight, um, and which I did myself, you know, like I gained, I gained 20, 22 pounds over COVID. Um, and on the back end of it, I just couldn't seem to lose it. Cause what's interesting is like, I mean, I've led this like ketogenic lifestyle for like seven years and I do cycle on and off. But by and large, you know, I eat keto, try to stay keto. Um, really, I broke so many rules, um, during COVID that it just was ridiculous because food became such a

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 3:02

right, right. It was a stressful time, isn't it?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 3:06

it was stressful. And I think during stressful times, you know, we find those things, you know, whether they're addictive or whether they're bad for us, but we find those things that give us comfort. And for me, it was alcohol. And, and just bad food, like carbs and stuff and overeating, um, seem to bring comfort. So what's interesting is I think prior to, I would say prior to, to COVID, I think I was a little bit of a hypocrite because, you know, my, My attitude was like, yeah, Hey, look, if you're carrying extra weight and you just don't, you can't jump on the keto bandwagon because it's too hard to work. That's on you, but put under so much stress because you know, I'm running a business and had a lot of employees and there was a lot of division amongst the employees, like, Hey, I don't want to get vaxxed. I think it's a government conspiracy and just the responsibility sheltering in place. I mean, We were a food production company, so we were sort of exempt from a lot of the rules as long as people masked, but then people didn't want to mask and there was a lot of stress and it was like, it just became easy for me to fall into that, which from my perspective, in the words of Jocko Willink, Good, good. I, I, I learned so much from, I think I learned so much from falling off the wagon of my own personal failures over the past three years, like just in diet and, you know, struggle and stuff like that, that it made me a lot more compassionate, you know, it made me compassionate. I'm way more compassionate towards people that do carry weight and have a hard time losing that weight, you know, because of all of the food, all of the outside stimulus that actually helps people cope, right? And so I have, um, I have a concierge physician that I work with back in Portland and his name is, uh, Jeff Grimm, really, really good guy. And. We, I think we just made it together through through COVID and finding a lot of different super interesting hacks, you know, and one of those hacks that I started at the probably in 2022, you know, because I put on over 20 pounds, um, which on my frame isn't a huge deal, but I did notice a big

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 5:37

Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 5:37

how I felt. How my clothes fit and, you know, and I'm, I'm a freak for data collection. So as I'm watching the scale go up and, you know, I pull blood every quarter, I was watching my cholesterol go up and it's like, yeah, I mean, it has that big impact, but, you know, it made me realize that people find comfort in different ways. So. Um, I'm grateful for that level of compassion I found, but I also ran into some interesting hacks. So my friend Jeff is like, Hey, do you want to try, do you want to try semaglutide? And I'm like, I have no idea what semaglutide is. And I've always been interested in peptides, um, but never really jumped into them because they're injectable. And, you know, injectable, you know, supplements, some people, I don't mind them so much, but some

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 6:30

Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 6:31

you know, are afraid of the needle, but, um, yeah, so I did my first, so I did a first run of semi glutide, which I think is commonly referred to as a Zempic. And gave it a shot. I'm like, okay, let's see if I can lose some weight. So I did it for two weeks and the side effects were really, really

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 6:51

Mm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 6:51

You know, um, nausea, a lot of nausea, a lot of heartburn, a lot of fatigue. And I'm like, look, I'll just do this on my own. So, you know, Uh, I kept watching my weight go back up and it's like I was having a really, really hard time, you know, with discipline with food and discipline with, with alcohol, like drinking beer and wine and an occasional bourbon really became more of a habit, you know, than an indulgence. And it's like, you know, when you're starting to create habits like that, it, it doesn't take long before they can start becoming destructive. It started showing up in some of my blood tests. Like my C reactive proteins were kind of indicating that I was having some inflammation issues that were coming from my liver. You know, again, you know, not huge leaps and in, in CRP levels, but enough to think, Wow, you know, the things that I'm doing are really affecting my My physical being so I went on for another probably six to eight months and then I'm like, let's give it another shot But when I do it this time what I want to do is I wanted to be super mindful of it And I want to incorporate it with keto. I want to incorporate it with supplementing with With other drugs. So like semi glutide falls under the category of the GLP one agonist So the two main ones that are out now are, are Ozempic,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 8:23

right. Mm-Hmm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 8:25

Wigovi, and they're either going to be semaglutide or terrazeptide. And semaglutide is like a single GLP 1 agonist. Terezeptide is a dual functioning one. So I experimented with both of them and I experimented at a low dose, like did a very, very low dose. And then I coupled it with berberine. And so berberine, berberine is actually, they refer to it as a, uh, a poor man's metformin. Um, but I've taken metformin before to see what it would do with my blood glucose levels. Um, and I found that if I stacked the terrazeptide or the semaglutide with, um, with berberine, that I was noticing that my blood sugar was dropping at least five additional points. So what I found is that with these GLP 1 agonists, if you're able to supplement with some things that control blood sugar levels, You know, supplements like berberine or even metformin and then the keto diet, which most definitely controls blood glucose levels, you're going to see some amazing efficacy. Like I lost 20 pounds and I gauged it a lot though. Like I think a lot of people are like, I want to lose this fat and I want to lose the super fast. What that means is if you're losing weight super fast, and I would even say people that are on the keto diet, the goal is not to lose weight fast.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 10:01

Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 10:02

You know, because you're going to get loose skin. You're also going to lose, lose muscle mass. So the entire time I was doing this hack, I'm watching muscle mass. Like how much muscle am I losing in comparison to, uh, uh, to fat? And so I have a, a scale. It's a withings scale. Um, that does BMI, does fat loss, does muscle loss. I mean, it's a, it's a pretty sophisticated scale, not expensive. I think I paid 120 bucks for it, but I was watching the muscle. It's like, okay, am I losing any muscle here? And so I adjusted the dosage, you know, so I wasn't losing any muscle and then increase the amount of protein that I was eating. So in some cases I was eating way more protein than what would be commonly associated with with a keto diet. Um, I was trying to get to 200, which is really hard. I mean, it's hard if you're not on a GLP 1 agonist, but it's super hard if you are. Because where are you getting the protein from? So I was having a lot of whey protein, uh, ready to drink beverages. Um, I found one, uh, by a company that was plant based. That was actually would put me into some pretty deep keto, um, that had 32 grams of plant based, um, plant based protein in like a 12 ounce ready to drink shake. And it was, it was delicious enough, but it was really effective. But so I did, I mean, I did all of my data collection, but what came up for me is like, Love Keto. I think Keto is amazing. I'm gonna start using, I'm gonna start actually doing another sort of a biohack with KetoneIQ, which is a, I think it's a beta droxylbutyrol

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 13:03

yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 13:04

which is a, it's, it's like a ketone, yeah, it's like a ketone ester, but it's more, I think it's more effective.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 13:14

mm hmm,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 13:14

So I'm going to start using that in conjunction with a GLP 1 agonist, and I want to see where it takes my blood glucose levels, but I also want to see where it takes my You know, uh, ability to build more muscle as well as like my brain function, you know, like kicking me out of brain fog, but I mean, there's so much, there's just a

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 13:39

what if you take that and you don't go keto, how, where would that take you, do you think,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 13:45

You mean taking a GLP one agonist or taking, yeah, if you don't, if you don't do keto, I, so I did both. I mean, I think it's going to be effective. Like, I think taking GLP 1 agonist and not being on keto will still be effective because the main thing that it, the main thing that these, that these GLP 1 agonists do is they, they trigger the, the receptor in your brain, uh, for satiation, right? So you feel like you're full, but another thing that it does too is like, since you're feeling full. It, it also, uh, it also slows down your gastric emptying, like your transit rate, how fast you're digesting food. So it slows it down quite a bit, which, which also regulates your body producing, uh, leptin.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 14:43

mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 14:44

So leptins and ghrelin are those things, those are the hunger hormones that just make you hungry. So the way that it works is basically it says, Hey, you're full, stop eating. And then your body reacts by saying, Oh, let's slow down this digestion process. And then the chain reaction to it is like, yeah, if we're not hungry, we don't need to, uh, you know, we don't need to, to secrete, uh, leptins or ghrelin. So you, it's a, it's a, it's super interesting how it works. And so by doing that, it drives down your, your blood glucose

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 15:17

Yep.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 15:18

And that's where I think the two, that is where I think that both the keto diet and the GLP 1 agonists converge.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 15:28

Mm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 15:29

And that convergence is what, is what I'm after now. Like, okay, so how do you use those two? Like, do you really back down your dose of, uh, of GLP 1? And then increase your, your ketones, you know, either, uh, exogenously from, you know, like a ketone, uh, butyrol or, uh, or a, uh, ketone ester. I don't know. That's my next hack. And I'm going to do a ton of data collection because I wear a continual glucose monitor. know, so I'm able to, like, follow that,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 16:07

Maybe that's going to be the next book, right, Tom? If it works.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 16:12

I don't know, I mean, I, I don't know, because, you know, the thing is, like, I'm in the process of stepping down, like, from my role at work, so, like, right now I'm the CEO. So I have, uh, I have a person who's on my team who's currently my CFO, who's moving into that role. And so I'm going to be moving more into the chief innovations officer role, which is great because that gives me more access to the lab and but, but, you know, I'm in my sixties. So I started thinking about legacy, you know, and there's some people that think that generational wealth. Is the greatest legacy you can leave behind. But I don't, I don't feel that like I look at all of the people that are the heirs to billionaires, what do they really do? What do they do to impact the world? Like, I don't see a lot of it. I, I mean, I see mostly. The impact they make is flying their private jets and hanging out on the beach and not really doing much of anything. And I think that, I think the greatest legacy that somebody can leave behind is knowledge,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 17:20

hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 17:20

you know, like when you look at, when you look at like the most powerful man in the world, right, Marcus Aurelius, you know, like, did he pass on generational wealth? Nope. But the knowledge that he passed on through stoicism and philosophy. That's a legacy and that is a long legacy, couple thousand years of legacy.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 17:45

Mm hmm. What's the legacy that you think that you want to, uh, live?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 17:50

I think more, I think more knowledge based, like I'm in the process of writing another book, but it's a technical book and it's the book is going to be called the formulators guide to clean label sugar reduction and I've got thousands of formulas that I've created over the past two decades. And I'm going to include those and I'm going to include step by step instructions for any, any CPG company that can use these as base formulas to cut down added sugars and carbs in, in all of their formulas. I think, I mean, I don't know if that's going to be a legacy, but I think it'll make an impact because I, I find like a lot of companies that, you know, that manufacture ultra processed food. are kind of in the weeds. They don't really understand because they've done it for so long. They don't really understand like, Hey, how do we get the sugar out and still make it taste good and how do we get the carbs out and, you know, get our baked goods to still, you know, rise and, you know, have a soft middle and crunchy outside and stuff. So, um, I don't know. It feels like a good direction for me right now,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 19:06

You know, man, I salute you for, you know, having the, you know, The honesty is, you know, refreshing. You know, you man up to, you know, talking about your mistakes. Um, also man up to right the wrong, right? Um, you weren't living the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 19:21

man.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 19:23

Um, And then you felt, you talked about this on our first interview, uh, you felt like you were a hypocrite, uh, with your company, right? It's a lifestyle, promoting healthy lifestyles. But, uh, yeah, I salute you, man, for that courage, you know? Overcoming, you know, sugar addiction is huge. Like, we all have that. And obviously, a lot of people don't, um, do not have that. Accept that they have it, but, you know, if you have sugar dependency, if you can't go get off, you know, carbohydrates, you know, high, high, high, high carb diets, then you are a sugar dependent, right? And by acknowledging that, also you are acknowledging earlier about what happened in, you know, the COVID times in 2021, you know, And, um, packing like 20 pounds, it's, uh, it's not an easy thing to do. Like, you know, coming forward and telling about your story and how you were able to overcome that. It's, uh,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 20:28

Wow. Thank you. That's super nice for you to say. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I, I'm not a person who beats himself up over the mistakes. You know, I've made, I did, I, and maybe this thing just, maybe this all just comes with like old age or something. Um, but it's like, I don't know. I think that when I was younger, I used to just beat the hell out of myself for every mistake I'd make. Like, you're so stupid. And it's like, and now I like, I like making mistakes because if I'm not making any mistakes, it means that I'm not really pushing myself. You know, so I like making mistakes because, you know, it makes me more mindful, and, and then I have that choice, right? When you make a mistake, it's like, you have the choice of like, alright, well, am I going to use this as an opportunity to learn, grow, and become a better human being? You know? And, you know, life is all about our choices. I try to always choose the path of learning from my mistakes, doing better, understanding we all make

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 21:41

Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 21:42

you know, and just every single day trying to be a better man. And, I don't know, it gives me, gives me a sense of groundedness. Mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 21:52

And it helps you. You know, one of my mentors always told me, I know this, this was when, you know, in my darkest time of my life, like six, seven years ago, it was, uh, the darkest time. And then she told me, Hey, I know you're going to get better because you talk about it, right? You're honest about it. You're you, you want to get better, right? But if you keep that to yourself and you don't accept what's going on, then how are you able to. Overcome that if you don't even accept it, right? So, um, one of the things that I really learned about, uh, you know, mistakes is, you know, talk about it, man, man up about it, you know, have the courage to talk about it to other people. You know, sometimes people have, you know, a different perspective that you may resonate with and sometimes they can help you, right? Um, overcome that. So, um, like I said, if you talk about it, it's, uh, like, like you're doing now. You're able to create a plan on how to overcome it, right? You created a plan by talking about it, and people talk about, and you discuss it with people, and people have ideas. Like, for example, um, you know, biohacking. Um, we, you know, your friend talked about biohacking, and it resonated with you. And now, you've lost 20 pounds. You know, and uh, Keep moving forward. Right. So, uh, that's a, that's a good way to really overcome, uh, our challenges is to talk about it. Mm-Hmm

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 23:26

thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot to learn there. I mean, a whole lot to learn, but I, I mean, to your point, you know, I think owning one's mistakes, um, in actually accepting the help of other people, I mean, that's vulnerability. And I think that, I think, I think courageous people can embrace vulnerability because it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable. Um, I mean, I noticed this in my leadership team at work, like sometimes they have the hardest time being vulnerable. You know, they've got this big wall up, they don't want to admit their mistakes, you know, and stuff. But if you create a safe space for people. Which, I mean, you clearly do on your podcast. Um, I think it makes it easy for people to be vulnerable. And once they come out of that, you know, once they come out of that vulnerability, they find themselves like even more courageous than they were before.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 24:27

Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 24:27

You know, and it's like, I don't know when I look at the world now, it just seems like every, not everybody, but there's a lot of divisiveness in the world, you know, everybody's divided and we've got the right, the left, the red, the blue states and, you know, down here in the U. S. And I mean, there's just, and there's a lot of conflict going on in other countries, a lot of authoritarianism. You know, when I look at this, it's like there's a lot of division in the world. And I think that, I mean, I think it's You know, as a leader, which I would most definitely consider you a leader, you know, in your community, I consider myself a leader and in my community, I think the best thing that we can do, you know, as leaders is to inspire people through, you know, through our being vulnerable and creating a safe space for them to be vulnerable as well, because what that's going to create is community in, you know, And when you have a strong community, it's not easily divided and when we get divided and it's the us and them, you know, that's when we, that's when we become easily led and, and even easily led astray by people, you know, with conspiracy theories and stuff like that. So I think. As community leaders, I think as leaders in our families, whatever, I think be courageous enough to be vulnerable, you know, and own your mistakes and, and learn from them, you know, and build that trust. I mean, that's what we need back because that's, that's what builds strong communities.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 26:03

Yeah. When you, you know, empower people with, you know, information, I always talk about this when I talk to my clients about, um, you know, just health in general, right? If you're starting a new venture, First of all, you, you got to commit and understand commitment. Like a lot of people may say I'm committed, but do you really understand commitment? What does it mean to be committed to one thing? Right? I always say, Hey, if you're committed to one area of your life, all you need to do is look at that and look at that foundation that you built. Um, and how you got committed and then, you know, apply this to this area of your life, maybe health, right? If you want to start a healthy diet, you know, what, what did it took you to be committed on your business? Right. For example, right. Um, obviously you're not going to be. Um, you know, in and out of your business, sometimes you're in, sometimes you're out. No, you're committed to your business and you get up in the morning and you have that intention, right? You're intentional with everything that you're doing. Number one is understanding commitment. Number two is educating yourself with the knowledge of, okay, if you're starting a keto diet, if you're starting a carnivore diet, You gotta really learn about it, right? Because at the end of the day, if you don't know anything, let's say for your business, if you don't know anything about your business, somebody comes to you and asks you about your business, you can't even explain what your business is, right? You're at a disadvantage, right? And number three is community. I always talk about community, the power of proximity, right? You are the sum of the five people around you, right? If you surround yourself with people with the same goals, chances are I can almost guarantee your success, right? If you surround yourself with the right people, right? And so that's, that's a huge thing. I mean, I'm, I'm all about community. I'm building my own community right now. People that are, you know, just accountability people around me. Um. Yeah. Yeah, and vulnerability. I like that. I think I'm going to apply that to that community for sure. Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 28:09

you do it, the easier it becomes, you know, I mean, we're all human beings. We all make mistakes.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 28:16

absolutely,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 28:17

know, and we're just all walking each other home.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 28:21

we, we, uh, we keep each other accountable, right? You gotta have that around you.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 28:26

Oh, a hundred percent.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 28:28

that around you.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 28:28

Yeah. I mean, I started, I started demand that out of my leadership team. So it's like, Hey, look, I'm not a dictator and I don't have all of you people here to continually agree with me

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 28:42

Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 28:43

I mean, if you have, you have two people in a relationship and they constantly agree, One of them is not really necessary. So, you know, I, I encourage them, I 100 percent encourage them to engage me, to oppose me, to, you know, if they see me going in the wrong direction, making poor decisions, you know, for them to call me out on it, because honestly, it's like compliments when people are like complimenting you.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 29:14

Mm-Hmm?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 29:14

It, it. It, I mean, it, it strokes your ego, but you don't need that. Like your ego never serves you. It never serves you. What you need is what you need is the criticism and the honest truth in the things that you're doing so you can actually be better. Like, in my formulations, like if I, if I create a formula and we've got a panel and everybody on the panel is like, this tastes amazing, this is really good, it's not what I'm looking for. Tell me what I can do better. Tell me where the off notes are. Tell me, you know, tell me everything that I can do better about this, this formula in order for it to, to be perfect, you know? And then even after something's already at the mark. A market level and scaling. I still constantly pull stuff back into the lab. Let's do a sensory panel Let's see what we can do better with this. So I like that.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 30:18

want to talk to you about that, you know, the role of your, um, company in the food industry, right? We talked about, you know, um, your, the food industry is promoting unhealthy eating habits, you know, with, uh, the widespread availability of cheap, you know, processed ingredients like sugar. you know, contributed to the rise of obesity and diabetes, right? Um, what are, do you think the steps consumers can take to make sure they are informed with their choices about the foods they purchase and consume? Because the policies have, have to change. I know. And we get that. And, and that falls on the shoulders of lawmakers, but we know if we wait for that, we might wait. You know, 10, 20 years for that change to take into effect.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 31:10

yep,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 31:11

need to take action now. Someone who has the power and authority like yourself and influence to other people. What do you think people can do now? Right. To make that informed choice. Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 31:33

that's going to protect people from ultra processed food, those things are in motion, right? So, like Bernie Sanders is really pushing ahead the Truth in Labeling Act, which is requiring companies that produce food with high amounts of sugar and sodium to actually put it on the front of the pack. You know, like a warning label, like warning. This contains 20 grams of added sugar. I think that that's a big, I think that's, that's sort of the overarching. Um, I would say remedy for it. But as a consumer, I think the best thing that a consumer can do is read the ingredient declaration or the ingredient list and read the nutritional facts

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 32:20

Um,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 32:22

facts panel is going to tell you the things that that you want to be aware of. And the first place I'd go, the first place I'd go is added sugars. You know, like, how many grams of added sugars does this product have? The second place I would go is carbohydrates. Like, what are the carbs? The last place I usually go is fiber. Because if you have something that has, let's say, ten carbs in it, but has seven grams of fiber, that's gonna leave you with three net carbs. And it's probably not going to impact, it's probably not going to impact your, your, uh, blood glucose levels as much, you know, cause the fibers offset that those, those are main things I would look for. I would also in, in the ingredient deck, I'd look for hidden sugars. So there's a lot of different things like concentrated fruit juice, uh, like nectars,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 33:22

different names for sugar.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 33:25

There's a bunch of different names for it. I would start familiarizing yourself with them, but you'll always know how much added sugar is if you just go to the nutritional facts panel. I would say coupling all of that with understanding what a portion size is. Right. I mean in the U. S., in the U. S., I mean it's amazing because you go to a restaurant and I mean it's great because I think we celebrate our abundance. But it's a double edged sword, right? Overabundance is never really a good thing. And understanding what a portion size is, is pretty easy. If it fits in the palm of your hand, that's a portion.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 34:03

Um,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 34:06

Anything more than that? is over a portion. Watch your portion sizes, make sure that the food that you're consuming is, you know, I would say nutrient dense, high in proteins, high in fat, low in, in carbohydrates, high in fiber. Like if you can, I mean, if you can just stick with that and understand the portion sizes, I think that that is, that goes a really, really long way to, uh, to taking some rudimentary steps, but some critical steps in your success.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 34:43

yeah. And you know, I get a lot of questions about, Hey, is this okay? Um, is this food okay for me? And I would look at the back and say, Hey, there's sucralose in it. Basically it's a diet Coke that, that can, you know, uh, bring up some nasty cravings. So, I mean, I don't think,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 35:04

It can. Artificial sweeteners. I mean, and this is a huge debate because I've gotten into debates with, you know, with, with doctors before on, on artificial sweeteners. And so here's the thing, monk fruit, uh, stevia. Both of those are glycosides. Glycosides exist in your body. So you have endogenous glycosides. So your body knows what a glycoside is and how to efficiently and effectively process it. When you're talking about products like sucralose, which is a, which is a chlorinated sugar molecule, or aspartame, which is a modified phenylalanine molecule, and when you look at those major, you know, chemical sweeteners, those are glycosides. Those compounds don't exist in your body, right? So, your brain thinks it's sugar. And it will release insulin, can cause an insulin spike, which the real game is to keep your, your blood glucose levels, you know, flat. Um, so that's gonna, that could lead to metabolic disease. The only positive benefit to it was B calorie abatement, meaning you're taking in less calories. Um, but I just, I don't see that with. Monk fruit and stevia and allulose or erythritol, you know, because those things already exist in nature and they exist in our body But anything that's like manufactured that our body doesn't know what it is. It's gonna take a guess at it and I would like sucralose. I mean a chlorinated sugar molecule I've worked with sucralose before and when you open a box of sucralose It smells very much like chlorine, like super strong.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 37:00

wow,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 37:00

know if the amount that you put in, like usually, usually you're not going to put more than like one percent in a, in a beverage formulation. Um, I'm not sure that that amount will really disrupt your microbiome. But from my perspective, why take the risk? I mean, when you've got things like stevia and monk fruit out there that are, you know, flavor wise, pretty close, you know, if you, if you use them in moderation, um, you know, but they aren't, it's not a chlorinated sugar molecule. It could potentially disrupt your microbiome and it, and it's not going to, you know, spike your, your, uh, your blood sugar. So

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 37:41

that's interesting,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 37:42

would look for things

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 37:42

that's interesting. When you said that, uh, your brain might think it's sugar, then it prepares itself to release insulin. Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 37:53

Yes, it does. It does. And I have done that. I have, you know, it's an N of one because it's me just using my continual glucose monitor and I mean, it's rather anecdotal, but I've shared this information with a lot of folks, you know, that are in this sort of metabolic health category and they're like, oh, yeah, absolutely, you know, Aspartame, sucralose, um, will spike your blood sugar. I mean, it's not a huge, huge spike, but you will definitely notice it on your, uh, your congenital glucose monitor.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 38:29

And yeah, And it could still like, If you have that, If you have, If you're sugar addicted, And you give yourself something sweet like that, That's, that's spiking your sugar,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 38:41

mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 38:42

That sugar, If you have a spike, It's gonna crash coming down on you, Right?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 38:48

Yeah, and it's going to trigger, and if you start having a crash, it's going to trigger leptin and ghrelin, which makes you hungry.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 38:57

See? Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 38:58

So when you're like, Hey, I just drank a diet Coke and 30 minutes later, it's like, Oh, I'm starving. I got to get something to eat. Yeah. It's that insulin. That's the, the rollercoaster. And it's like, no, I'm hungry. I don't understand why. I mean, hunger, hunger is just simply triggered by hormone

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 39:15

Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 39:16

ghrelin and leptin. So

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 39:19

Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 39:20

fun, huh?

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 39:22

Yeah, and that's what we don't understand as a society is, you know, people are so confused with hey What can I eat? Like I mean people say hey, this is bad A lot of people say, you know have different opinions about food, right? We got vegans on this side We got keto on this side. We got carnivores on that side And then people are just confused nowadays. What do you think about those, uh, types of, you know, conversations to be had? Is that something that, uh, uh, comes up on conversation on, uh, on dinner

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 39:57

Oh continually. Yeah continually because I mean I Would say that probably a third of all the applications I work at work on are plant

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 40:08

Hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 40:09

And I would say in some situations, I'm all on board with plant based. Like, I do have a plant based 32 gram of protein, uh, ready to drink beverage that I consume. It's by a company called Own, O W U Y N, only what you, what you need. A brilliant formulation. But is it going to be, is it going to be the protein that my body needs on an ongoing basis because the amino acids are not going to be in alignment with the amino acids that our bodies need from actual animal protein? Um, I think if you're getting protein, that's great. I think you really need to take a look at the levels of amino acids that you're getting, and also vitamin B12. Like our, our, our bodies need to get vitamin B12 from outside sources. And the greatest place that we can go to for both amino acids and, uh, and B12 is going to be animal type proteins. And that can either be dairy, um, or actual, you know, meat, poultry, fish,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 41:22

proteins.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 41:25

it's a complete protein. But on the other side, on the other hand, when I think about, um, Keto carnivore or people on a carnivore diet, I've done the current carnivore diet. It's not what you think. It's like, most people would think that, you know, your bowels would be blocked up and you'd just be like, Oh,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 41:46

no carnivore ever. Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 41:48

Yeah. And I didn't find that to be the case. I would say the first, the first probably six days into it, um, I was having a hard time, like I had a lot of diarrhea from it and it didn't, and I never felt completely full. Um, It's an interesting thing. And it's a lot of protein. I'm not sure that that's like, I'm not sure that that's how our bodies are physically designed. I mean, when you look at how our, you know, like our, our dental structure, I mean, our dental structure indicates that we should be omnivores. You know, we should be eat plants and we should eat animals. Um, it they're not like our dental structure doesn't support us being vegans, right? Because our molars would be a lot more adapted. We wouldn't have canine type teeth, you know? I mean if you look at the physical our physical self, it's like, you know I would say that a combination of meat and Um, of like, uh, I would say low glycemic carbohydrates, like cruciferous vegetables, you know, lots of fresh vegetables, um, even root vegetables. I would say that, you know, moderation in all things. I wouldn't be on a straight sweet potato diet, but you know what, if you have like maybe Have five to ten percent of your meal comprised of of like sweet potato and some broccoli and then a ribeye I mean that or fillet or chicken any of that. I just just use good sense I would say don't shop the inside of the store That's where the poison is get on the outside where the produce and you know in the meat

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 43:41

I'm, you know, in all, you know, transparency, I, I've been on a keto diet for about four years and I switched to the carnivore diet, um, just because I wanted to, you know, because as we know, some plants have their defense mechanism where they have these oxalates, right, um, oxalates that may be. cause, uh, inflammation or, uh, gut issues just because it, it, uh, it, you know, if you Google oxalates, you will know it's like tiny needles, right? That irritates the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 44:16

Yeah, you don't

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 44:17

you don't want that. So, so some of these people have, you know, leaky gut and when you have leaky gut, inflammation manifests, um, in different ways because when, when, when your gut is leaking, right? It, it goes through your bloodstream and it, you know. it causes inflammation. Um, some people have autoimmune condition. Some people have, you know, when you have gut issues, you know, that gut brain axis, sometimes it affects your, uh, mental health, right? People develop

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 44:46

Oh, absolutely.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 44:48

so. So I understand why people go carnivore, but then in the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 44:53

Mm hmm. Mm

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 44:53

breath, people who go carnivore after 30 days, they get, Healed for after 30 days and then you can add things back on slowly and maybe maybe some people end up Some people stay on carnivore and some people go animal base where they incorporate more fruits, right? um, you know depending on if Obviously you have to absorb yourself after seven days. Let's say you added dairy back to your life to your diet. You observe it for seven days. If it doesn't, if you can tolerate it, because some people can't, right? It causes some bloating, um, inflammation, but if you can't tolerate there, you can add that back on. So that's what I really teach is okay. If you're, I'm not saying, Hey, you can't have fruits, you can't have vegetables, but you know, you can add it back on your diet slowly. And, and the point of the carnivore diet is that it's the ultimate elimination diet where. Yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 45:51

it all

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 45:52

think that, hey, okay, when you add this item, food item, you add blueberries or, or whatnot, you, you really observe what, what's it's doing to your body because everything that manifests in your body is from your gut, right? And so, that, that's what it is. So, people who go straight carnivore, level 1 and water, you stay there for 30 days, and as you heal, after 30 days, you add things back on slowly. You add things back on slowly. So now you

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 46:25

We are completely aligned.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 46:27

can now pinpoint what's gonna cause inflammation, if you add things one by one. So when we go to our, you know, doctor and say, Hey, I have this, I have inflammation. I have food, food sensitivities. And And they don't know what they'll just give you a diagnosis of IBS. Basically they don't know what's causing inflammation in your body. So you got to go in ultimate elimination diet to really pinpoint what's causing cause we are all different, right? We're, I can be okay with dairy and you can be sensitive to dairy or broccoli or whatnot, right? Cause, we are all different, but yeah, just to say, Hey, that, that's, uh, that's, uh, The, the carnivore diet is not meant for you to stay there, uh, long term, right? If you're, if you're somebody who wants to heal, you know, um, some, some people may stay on the carnivore diet, but some people venture out to animal based, to keto, uh, depending on, you know, um, how, uh, how you react to these foods, um, basically.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 47:36

Yeah, I were completely aligned on that. I think probably The most effective modality or diet that you can, that you can do if you are suffering from some unknown thing, like you're trying to find out, like if you have a bacterial overgrowth, if you, I mean, are suffering from a yeast infection, Candida, like anything like that. The absolute 100 percent best method is going carnivore for 30 days, because it cleans the slate. It cleans the slate. At that point, yeah, I mean, you can start adding, adding things in. But I, yeah, I fully, I think that that is the absolute best way for somebody to hit the reset button.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 48:26

Here's what people don't understand about the carnivore is they think that, hey, you're, why do you deprive yourself of, you know, these foods, right? You have this and that. Some people don't know that people can be sensitive to other things, right? And, and the only way that you really figure it, figure that out is not to. You know, not a diagnosis of IBS, no, cause, you have to eliminate everything so you know what's, so you can pinpoint what causes it, right?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 48:58

a hundred

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 48:59

uh, people say, Hey, uh, I can't, you know, don't deprive yourself. No, people are not depriving themselves. It's, there's a process to this, right,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 49:08

For sure, but I think as human beings, we all need to probably increase our capacity to suffer.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 49:15

yeah, yeah,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 49:17

you have to, you know, I mean, this is sort of cliche, but no pain, no gain. Yeah, I mean, if you're not, if you aren't just suffering just a little bit, you know, it's like, you're not, there's no lesson in it, there's no efficacy in it, and, you know, like, I, I'm a huge believer in doing a neti

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 49:38

Mm hmm.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 49:41

pot, trust me, I mean, I run into people like, no, I tried it once, I can't do it. But I mean, I just talked to a doctor last week and she's like, if I, you know, if my patients would just use a neti pot twice a day, I would have, I would have 75 percent less patients, but most people are like, I don't want to put warm salt water in my nose and I'm not going to do it. Well, you're going to suffer no matter what, right? So either you're going to suffer while you're doing a neti pot, or you're going to suffer, uh, doing, doing, uh, carnivore, which I didn't suffer cause I

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 50:20

I love it.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 50:22

but it will love it. But the thing is like, yeah, I mean, These are the things that are necessary so you don't suffer more later, you know, and I think maybe people just like having really mild suffering, like, oh, I have IBS, which I don't think

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 50:40

don't, I don't think people are suffering. If, if you're, if you're on the carnivore diet or keto diet, you know, my dad, my, my proudest moment was I got him off his type two medication. Like I've, I've helped,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 50:53

well

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 50:54

helped a lot of people. Um, but the, my most proudest, uh, moment was when I helped my dad get off type two meds and cholesterol medication. Yeah. I've worked on it for years, my brother. I worked on it for years, and I finally got him off these meds. And his doctor actually recommended to get off these meds, not me. So I'm like, they saw his numbers and it's okay. He didn't have to be on these meds. And so, that was my proudest moment. And I feel like it's freedom for people, right? When you go on keto, when you go on carnivore. I don't think, you know, restrict, I don't think it's restriction for these people. Most, um, especially for those who have, you know, chronic illnesses or chronic disease. Thanks. For people who have lost tons of weight, people who have bipolar or schizophrenia, I've talked to, I've talked to a lot of people about, uh, you know, reversing their symptoms of depression, major depression, and it's freedom for these people, right? But for people who doesn't need it, I mean, it could seem like a daunting task, for sure.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 52:06

I, I didn't, I never found it, found it daunting. I, I just haven't. And I also think that the pain of carrying extra weight, the pain of struggling with mental health issues, the pain of being, of being dependent on, uh, diabetes medication. I mean, I think that those, that those, Chronic pains are much better than maybe the slight inconvenience and slight discomfort of modifying your

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 52:40

yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. When you, you know, when, when I used to walk down the aisles of the grocery store, I used to say, Hey, I can't have that. But then when I educated myself on why I can't have those things, I, I, I switched that mindset from, I can't have that to, I don't want that. Cause I know what, cause I know what it does to my body.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:02

Yep.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:02

Not to say I'm not going to have it anymore, ever, right? Absolutely, because, you know, I can have it anytime I want to, right? I can have it on occasion. But, uh, on my journey, right? Right now, I choose not to have it. Because I'm in

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:21

sounds like a wise

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:22

I'm in control.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:23

You are in control.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:25

Ha ha

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:27

Yeah, I think that, I think that control issue is super interesting that you bring it up. It's like you can either be in control of the things you eat or allow the things you eat to be in control of you.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:36

Yeah. And it's, uh, it's, it's not, it's

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:38

that's

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:39

it's not easy. Nobody's saying it's easy. It's, it's a simple change. Right. Right. Um, but, but, uh, it's,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:46

Yeah, it is

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 53:47

but it's not an easy change because it, a lot, a lot, uh, I really commend people who changed your lifestyle cause it's not easy. Yeah. It's not easy.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 53:58

No, it isn't easy. I mean, it's simple, not easy, you know, and it takes an effort, but it's worth, it's worth every bit the effort.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 54:07

You know what I ask you? Um, What challenges you right now, Tom? What motivates you to keep going right now? Maybe we can end there

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 54:19

You know, that's a really, that's a great question. I would say, uh, wonder and curiosity. Like, those are the things that drive me the most. Like, when I see, like, I read a lot of science papers. I mean, my mind is sort of a science based mind, and it is just wonder and curiosity. Like every day getting up and just wondering, you know, like, how is this all happening? Like I emailed this PhD last week. It might actually been the beginning of this week And he's a physicist and he's he lives up in Oregon and Nathan Siegel. So I I Emailed him because I just had this really profound question, right, that was eating at me and it's been eating at me for the past six months. Right? And it's sort of like around time, you know, because the thing is, like, I was walking down the street and I was like, this is super interesting. Does the part of the street that I'm going to be walking on in the next 30 seconds actually exist in the future? Like somewhere in the future, is that there? And I'm just coming to meet it. And then what happens to the street, the part of the street that I just passed that's 30 seconds behind me? Where did it go? You know? And is it the observer? And is, is everything that we observe suddenly coming into form? Or does all of it exist in the future and we just come to meet it? Do you have the answer to that?

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 55:57

I wish I have the answer to that but

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 56:00

I wished I had the answer to

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 56:01

I have, I have, I absolutely have thoughts like that, especially when I'm just walking by myself to the, to the park, whatever, you know, I, I just think to myself, you know, these things, I mean, there, there's going to be a point in time where, where I'm standing now, I won't, I won't be a few years, you know, Maybe a hundred years from now, there'll be a time that, uh, this place will still be here. I won't right. So Those things actually, you know Creeps up to me But keeps me keeps me

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 56:38

it is.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 56:39

uh motivated every single day for sure Yeah

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 56:43

aligned and motivated, but it also creates this really beautiful sense of wonder, right? um and There's there's an author John O'Donohue That he was a Catholic priest, but he really, really, uh, you know, practiced a lot of like Celtic mysticism and his writing is super beautiful. It's like, we're here to witness these landscapes and, you know, that's our main purpose. But I think, I think thinking the thoughts that are and pondering the thoughts that are outside of our reach humbles us. You know, because it makes us feel really small when we. You know and it teams the ego like this is my place this is who i am this is what i do but we're literally a speck of sand on a speck of sand within a speck of sand amongst trillions of other specks of sand and it's like when you think of us on that sort of micro level

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 57:52

out the

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 57:52

we are. Yeah it's like what is this we're experiencing you

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 57:59

And when you, when you realize that there's no, there's no more division, right? There's no more. Yeah. You're not, you're not thinking of who am I, who, who these, these people, my people, their people, like there's no, there's no there, like there's no superiority anymore. Like at the end of the day, we're just, you know, we, we share the same suffering. We share the same joys. Right. And we just want to help each other at the end of the day. Right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 58:30

Yeah. And we share the same particles. It means that we are all

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 58:34

You know, my wife actually asked

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 58:36

we feel

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 58:37

um, what, what, what do you think is the meaning of life? I had to ponder and like, wonder about that. I'm like, man. Yeah. My answer has to be profound, you know? Cause it can't be that simple, right? What? Yeah, yeah, I had to stop and think

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 58:59

will, nobody will really know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if life actually has a meaning. I think, I think our lives have purpose, but maybe no meaning. And I think that, I mean, from my perspective, I mean, purpose is the continual, is the continual growth process. You know, and genuinely loving one another.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 59:25

yes.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 59:26

If we just did that, right? Like, if we just all genuinely loved each other, all of this crap that we're going through would disappear.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 59:36

And, and every, and every, and, you know, you, you may think that this is not it. This is out of the realm of the ketones You will be wrong because, because love, you know, you have to love people to, you know, give service, right? If you think about service, whether you're in the food industry, whether you're trying to help people change their lifestyle. You gotta care for people. For me, if you think about purpose for me, I just want to help people succeed, right? I want to lessen their suffering. Because I've suffered, right? And I want to lessen their suffering. So I think that's my answer to that. Yeah.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:00:14

Yeah. You're coming from a space of contribution.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:00:18

Absolutely. Tom, thank you so much, man. I love this conversation, brother. I mean, we have to do this. We gotta do this again. man. I mean, the conversation to be had is infinite, you know, when you're here. So thank you so much for, for, uh, sharing that. I mean, where can people find you? Where can people, you know, I love Geigon Kido. We didn't even have a chance to talk about that, but, uh, yeah. Well, where can we get those products, man?

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:00:49

so that's kind of a sad story. We had to, yeah, we had to shut the business down because we had, we got sued by a, uh, class action lawyer for our site, not being, uh, not being compliant with the disabilities act. meaning that our buttons weren't big enough and so they were, yeah. And the, the, the language on the website was too complex and they wanted 75, 000 from us, and honestly, we give away more product than we sell because we're trying to help. Support

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:01:30

so unfortunate, man.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:01:32

we had to shut the site down and start getting rid of the product because it's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to pay this lawsuit because I think if you or even engage it, because I think if you start doing that, it just perpetuates it, meaning then more people are going to be coming after you. So, I mean, it was kind of unfortunate, but the, the upside to it is that I'm going to have all of the recipes. Included in an upcoming book and people can make all of those things

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:02

Right. Okay. Okay. Something good came out of

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:05

Yeah, because it was, I never did the book and the products to really make money. I just did it. I did it because I was enthusiastic about the results that Keto brings. So, but if people want to find me, um, I'd go on LinkedIn. Just look me up on LinkedIn,

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:22

Tom King.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:23

I used to, I show up as CEO right now, but I'll be showing up as the, um, I'll be showing up as the chief innovations officer the next few weeks

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:32

keto scientist.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:35

Yeah, just, I'm easy to find.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:37

All right. Well,

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:38

working at

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:39

Tom, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story here with us, man. You can come back anytime you want, brother. I can have these

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:45

Lorenz, just any time.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:47

All right.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:48

I love our conversations.

lorenz_1_04-11-2024_154039: 1:02:49

brother.

thom-king_1_04-11-2024_134038: 1:02:51

Have a great day.