{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.46,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.46,"body":"welcome Matt. Good to be here"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2.46,"endTime":5.34,"body":"with you. Chad, I'm really happy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2.46,"endTime":5.34,"body":"to have you here. I'm gonna I'm"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":5.34,"endTime":8.22,"body":"gonna jump right in with your"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":5.34,"endTime":8.22,"body":"bio, and then we can start the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":8.22,"endTime":12.06,"body":"conversation. So Matthew David"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":8.22,"endTime":12.06,"body":"Siegel, PhD, is a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.66,"body":"transdisciplinary philosopher"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.66,"body":"and associate professor in the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":15.66,"endTime":18.24,"body":"philosophy cosmology and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":15.66,"endTime":18.24,"body":"consciousness program at"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":18.24,"endTime":22.28,"body":"California Institute of integral"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":18.24,"endTime":22.28,"body":"studies in San Francisco. His"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":22.28,"endTime":25.7,"body":"work bridges process relational"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":22.28,"endTime":25.7,"body":"metaphysics with contemporary"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":25.7,"endTime":28.88,"body":"science and spirituality,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":25.7,"endTime":28.88,"body":"drawing inspiration from"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":28.88,"endTime":32.48,"body":"thinkers such as Alfred North"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":28.88,"endTime":32.48,"body":"Whitehead, Goethe and Rudolf"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":32.48,"endTime":36.56,"body":"Steiner. Siegel's scholarship"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":32.48,"endTime":36.56,"body":"challenges dualistic and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":36.56,"endTime":39.74,"body":"mechanistic paradigms and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":36.56,"endTime":39.74,"body":"invites a renewed integration"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":39.74,"endTime":43.66,"body":"between the natural sciences and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":39.74,"endTime":43.66,"body":"humanities. I got to experience"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":43.66,"endTime":46.3,"body":"this when I was in his classes,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":43.66,"endTime":46.3,"body":"when I was in the master's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":46.3,"endTime":49.0,"body":"program at the philosophy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":46.3,"endTime":49.0,"body":"cosmology and consciousness"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":49.0,"endTime":51.64,"body":"program. So I can, I can attest"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":49.0,"endTime":51.64,"body":"to the validity of all that."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":52.18,"endTime":55.6,"body":"He's also the author of a couple"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":52.18,"endTime":55.6,"body":"books, including physics of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":55.6,"endTime":59.02,"body":"world soul, which we read in one"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":55.6,"endTime":59.02,"body":"of his classes. And I can highly"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":59.02,"endTime":62.52,"body":"recommend in the book, he"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":59.02,"endTime":62.52,"body":"situates Whitehead's philosophy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":62.58,"endTime":66.12,"body":"of organism within the context"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":62.58,"endTime":66.12,"body":"of contemporary scientific"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":66.12,"endTime":70.26,"body":"cosmology, engaging with"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":66.12,"endTime":70.26,"body":"relativity, quantum evolutionary"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":70.26,"endTime":73.26,"body":"and complexity theories to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":70.26,"endTime":73.26,"body":"advocate for an unsold"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":73.56,"endTime":77.82,"body":"interpretation of the universe."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":73.56,"endTime":77.82,"body":"And on the topic of an installed"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":77.82,"endTime":80.42,"body":"interpretation of the universe,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":77.82,"endTime":80.42,"body":"I just want to say a few more"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":80.42,"endTime":83.18,"body":"words about the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":80.42,"endTime":83.18,"body":"mission of the program that that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":83.48,"endTime":86.36,"body":"Matt teaches in, and the one I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":83.48,"endTime":86.36,"body":"just finished last year, I got"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":86.42,"endTime":91.82,"body":"my master's last year in, which"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":86.42,"endTime":91.82,"body":"is in a nutshell, and maybe,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":93.02,"endTime":96.44,"body":"maybe you can add to this once"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":93.02,"endTime":96.44,"body":"we get into it. But in a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":96.44,"endTime":99.86,"body":"nutshell, the mission of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":96.44,"endTime":99.86,"body":"program is to transform"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":99.86,"endTime":104.86,"body":"individuals in society through"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":99.86,"endTime":104.86,"body":"this kind of ensouled worldview"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":105.1,"endTime":107.92,"body":"perspective, and just to say a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":105.1,"endTime":107.92,"body":"little bit about their stated"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":107.92,"endTime":111.76,"body":"mission, which it's to open our"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":107.92,"endTime":111.76,"body":"consciousness through learning"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":111.76,"endTime":114.76,"body":"and imagination to those"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":111.76,"endTime":114.76,"body":"creative and evolutionary"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":114.76,"endTime":118.54,"body":"energies suffusing the Earth,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":114.76,"endTime":118.54,"body":"the universe and the deep"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":118.54,"endTime":122.52,"body":"psyche, and to participate fully"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":118.54,"endTime":122.52,"body":"in the regeneration of human"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":122.52,"endTime":127.74,"body":"communities and their enveloping"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":122.52,"endTime":127.74,"body":"life systems. And, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":127.74,"endTime":130.5,"body":"draws from the deep wells of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":127.74,"endTime":130.5,"body":"philosophical and spiritual"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":130.5,"endTime":133.62,"body":"wisdom to bring forth a profound"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":130.5,"endTime":133.62,"body":"vision of a vibrant planetary"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":133.62,"endTime":138.84,"body":"era. So this to me, like when I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":133.62,"endTime":138.84,"body":"was considering matriculating"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":138.84,"endTime":142.64,"body":"with the program, this to me,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":138.84,"endTime":142.64,"body":"was so exciting and so unique."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":142.88,"endTime":146.6,"body":"And I feel like PCC, this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":142.88,"endTime":146.6,"body":"philosophy, cosmology and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":146.6,"endTime":150.68,"body":"consciousness program is maybe,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":146.6,"endTime":150.68,"body":"like, you know, singular in the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":150.68,"endTime":153.38,"body":"world. I don't know. It's one of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":150.68,"endTime":153.38,"body":"those rare academic programs"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":153.38,"endTime":156.92,"body":"that is both academically"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":153.38,"endTime":156.92,"body":"rigorous, but also is sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":156.92,"endTime":160.42,"body":"pushing the envelope in terms of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":156.92,"endTime":160.42,"body":"what's sort of valid subject"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":160.42,"endTime":164.14,"body":"matter for academic inquiry, and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":160.42,"endTime":164.14,"body":"what can be, you know, explored."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":164.14,"endTime":168.22,"body":"And I feel like, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":164.14,"endTime":168.22,"body":"it's so necessary right now with"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":168.22,"endTime":170.5,"body":"everything that's happening in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":168.22,"endTime":170.5,"body":"the world. And I just, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":170.5,"endTime":172.84,"body":"just can't say enough good"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":170.5,"endTime":172.84,"body":"things about this program. I'm"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":172.84,"endTime":175.54,"body":"not, you know, trying to sell"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":172.84,"endTime":175.54,"body":"you on it, but, but it's a great"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":175.54,"endTime":179.62,"body":"place, and I really, really"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":175.54,"endTime":179.62,"body":"valued my time there. So, so,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":179.62,"endTime":182.76,"body":"yeah, so that's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":179.62,"endTime":182.76,"body":"about Matt, a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":182.82,"endTime":187.44,"body":"program he's a professor in. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":182.82,"endTime":187.44,"body":"I wanted to start by kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":187.44,"endTime":190.74,"body":"getting into a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":187.44,"endTime":190.74,"body":"your work, Matt, and the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":190.74,"endTime":195.66,"body":"philosophy that you write and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":190.74,"endTime":195.66,"body":"talk about, which is essentially"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":195.66,"endTime":197.94,"body":"process philosophy, right? Would"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":195.66,"endTime":197.94,"body":"you say,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":198.42,"endTime":201.5,"body":"Yeah, process short"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":198.42,"endTime":201.5,"body":"of description, yeah. Good place"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":201.5,"endTime":201.92,"body":"to start."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":203.06,"endTime":205.16,"body":"And, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":203.06,"endTime":205.16,"body":"lot of my listeners and viewers"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":205.16,"endTime":208.04,"body":"probably aren't familiar with"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":205.16,"endTime":208.04,"body":"that so much, so I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":208.04,"endTime":211.1,"body":"to, kind of like set the table"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":208.04,"endTime":211.1,"body":"and just briefly describe that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":211.1,"endTime":214.16,"body":"or talk about that. One thing"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":211.1,"endTime":214.16,"body":"that I find entertaining as a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":214.16,"endTime":218.18,"body":"philosopher is the ways that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":214.16,"endTime":218.18,"body":"philosophers like to, kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":218.18,"endTime":222.46,"body":"like endlessly refine and sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":218.18,"endTime":222.46,"body":"of differentiate their"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":222.46,"endTime":224.92,"body":"philosophy versus other people's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":222.46,"endTime":224.92,"body":"philosophy, and then come up"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":224.92,"endTime":227.08,"body":"with new labels and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":224.92,"endTime":227.08,"body":"thing, right? So, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":227.08,"endTime":231.4,"body":"had pantheism for a while, and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":227.08,"endTime":231.4,"body":"then more recently, we have"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":231.4,"endTime":236.74,"body":"panpsychism. And of course, is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":231.4,"endTime":236.74,"body":"idealism and and, and then"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.66,"body":"panentheism is sort of like a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":237.1,"endTime":240.66,"body":"further kind of gloss on"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":241.44,"endTime":244.92,"body":"panpsychism as I understand it."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":241.44,"endTime":244.92,"body":"And so I think, would you say"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":244.92,"endTime":250.68,"body":"that process philosophy is pan"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":244.92,"endTime":250.68,"body":"atheistic, or how would you sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":250.68,"endTime":251.4,"body":"of couch"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":251.4,"endTime":255.66,"body":"that there are many"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":251.4,"endTime":255.66,"body":"process philosophers who are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":255.66,"endTime":260.42,"body":"also atheist, or at least Non,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":255.66,"endTime":260.42,"body":"non theist. So I wouldn't want"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":260.6,"endTime":267.56,"body":"to while I, you know, I would"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":260.6,"endTime":267.56,"body":"say panentheism is probably a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":267.56,"endTime":272.42,"body":"term I would be comfortable"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":267.56,"endTime":272.42,"body":"wearing, and there that's a long"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":272.42,"endTime":275.42,"body":"conversation unpack exactly what"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":272.42,"endTime":275.42,"body":"that means. But I wouldn't want"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":275.42,"endTime":280.4,"body":"to claim that process philosophy"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":275.42,"endTime":280.4,"body":"as such, necessarily is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":280.4,"endTime":284.98,"body":"identical to or leads one to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":280.4,"endTime":284.98,"body":"panentheism or pantheism or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":285.16,"endTime":288.46,"body":"theism. I think there are ways"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":285.16,"endTime":288.46,"body":"of being a process. Philosopher"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":290.38,"endTime":294.58,"body":"like Nietzsche, for example,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":290.38,"endTime":294.58,"body":"there are many contemporary"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":295.18,"endTime":300.42,"body":"Whitehead Ian's who inherit the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":295.18,"endTime":300.42,"body":"idea of process as. Opposed to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":300.42,"endTime":305.58,"body":"substance, but don't like his"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":300.42,"endTime":305.58,"body":"theology, and try to fully"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":306.78,"endTime":312.6,"body":"eliminate and scrub clean from"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":306.78,"endTime":312.6,"body":"his work any residue of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":312.6,"endTime":316.14,"body":"theological right. And they can"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":312.6,"endTime":316.14,"body":"still be process oriented"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":316.38,"endTime":320.6,"body":"without that. But for me,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":316.38,"endTime":320.6,"body":"personally, I think process"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":320.6,"endTime":327.38,"body":"philosophy allowed me to recover"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":320.6,"endTime":327.38,"body":"some sort of theistic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":327.86,"endTime":332.0,"body":"understanding, the pan and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":327.86,"endTime":332.0,"body":"theistic understanding. Whereas,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":332.12,"endTime":334.58,"body":"had I not been exposed to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":332.12,"endTime":334.58,"body":"process thought, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":334.58,"endTime":338.24,"body":"that, I would have been tempted"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":334.58,"endTime":338.24,"body":"by the theist a theist"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":338.24,"endTime":340.9,"body":"orientation, right? And then get"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":338.24,"endTime":340.9,"body":"into why that might be"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":340.9,"endTime":345.1,"body":"right? Yeah, I my"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":340.9,"endTime":345.1,"body":"personal background is that I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":345.1,"endTime":348.58,"body":"grew up Catholic and that I was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":345.1,"endTime":348.58,"body":"an atheist for a while, and then"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":348.58,"endTime":353.38,"body":"I got into more Eastern"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":348.58,"endTime":353.38,"body":"philosophy, and, like, the yoga"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":353.38,"endTime":356.02,"body":"Danta tradition and all that and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":353.38,"endTime":356.02,"body":"so. And then when I was in law"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":356.02,"endTime":359.2,"body":"school, I got really into the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":356.02,"endTime":359.2,"body":"history of Western philosophy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":359.2,"endTime":363.54,"body":"and and so, like, I come at it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":359.2,"endTime":363.54,"body":"from my own unique perspective,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":363.54,"endTime":366.3,"body":"which is that, you know, like, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":363.54,"endTime":366.3,"body":"think for a long time I felt"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":366.3,"endTime":370.68,"body":"like religion is bad and, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":366.3,"endTime":370.68,"body":"know, so anything that's like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":370.68,"endTime":373.02,"body":"theology would probably have"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":370.68,"endTime":373.02,"body":"triggered me at some point, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":373.02,"endTime":376.68,"body":"know. And so it's just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":373.02,"endTime":376.68,"body":"interesting to kind of try to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":376.68,"endTime":381.02,"body":"talk about this stuff in a way"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":376.68,"endTime":381.02,"body":"that is not going to result in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":381.14,"endTime":383.6,"body":"excess, excess, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":381.14,"endTime":383.6,"body":"ideological baggage around these"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":383.6,"endTime":386.96,"body":"terms and that kind of thing,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":383.6,"endTime":386.96,"body":"right? So maybe we should just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":386.96,"endTime":389.84,"body":"explain, like, for people who"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":386.96,"endTime":389.84,"body":"don't know, because this is sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":389.84,"endTime":393.14,"body":"of a general audience kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":389.84,"endTime":393.14,"body":"channel, like process philosophy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":393.14,"endTime":397.46,"body":"was new to me when I when I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":393.14,"endTime":397.46,"body":"entered the program at PCC. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":397.7,"endTime":399.86,"body":"so how would you sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":397.7,"endTime":399.86,"body":"describe it to somebody who"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":399.86,"endTime":403.24,"body":"doesn't know that much about,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":399.86,"endTime":403.24,"body":"like, you know, Whitehead or the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":403.24,"endTime":407.68,"body":"history of philosophy and stuff,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":403.24,"endTime":407.68,"body":"you know, like, what's a simple"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":407.68,"endTime":409.48,"body":"way to, kind of, like, explain"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":407.68,"endTime":409.48,"body":"it to people?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":409.78,"endTime":412.72,"body":"Well, process"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":409.78,"endTime":412.72,"body":"philosophy is usually said to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":412.72,"endTime":416.92,"body":"have started with this ancient"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":412.72,"endTime":416.92,"body":"Greek, pre Socratic philosopher"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":416.92,"endTime":422.1,"body":"named Heraclitus, who said"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":416.92,"endTime":422.1,"body":"everything flows and that you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":422.1,"endTime":429.6,"body":"cannot step into the same river"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":422.1,"endTime":429.6,"body":"twice. And that basic sentiment"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":429.84,"endTime":433.68,"body":"that you know to philosophize,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":429.84,"endTime":433.68,"body":"we're always going to need to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":433.68,"endTime":437.82,"body":"begin in the present, and that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":433.68,"endTime":437.82,"body":"the present is perpetually"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":437.82,"endTime":446.0,"body":"perishing into an open future."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":437.82,"endTime":446.0,"body":"That realization is it erupts"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":446.0,"endTime":449.78,"body":"out of our direct encounter with"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":446.0,"endTime":449.78,"body":"experience and process."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":449.78,"endTime":453.74,"body":"Philosophers think we need to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":449.78,"endTime":453.74,"body":"stay with that experience rather"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":453.74,"endTime":458.78,"body":"than rush to find some source of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":453.74,"endTime":458.78,"body":"foundation that would be fixed"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":458.9,"endTime":465.94,"body":"and unchanging and static, where"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":458.9,"endTime":465.94,"body":"we might anchor our reflections"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":465.94,"endTime":469.0,"body":"on the nature of reality"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":465.94,"endTime":469.0,"body":"process. Philosophers say, Well,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":469.0,"endTime":473.38,"body":"if we're going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":469.0,"endTime":473.38,"body":"reality really, we should always"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":473.38,"endTime":477.94,"body":"keep in mind that it is a term I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":473.38,"endTime":477.94,"body":"like to use, CReality. There's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":477.94,"endTime":481.62,"body":"creative process that's always"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":477.94,"endTime":481.62,"body":"underway. So reality is again,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":481.8,"endTime":485.58,"body":"never the same twice, just like"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":481.8,"endTime":485.58,"body":"Heraclitus river. And so a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":485.58,"endTime":492.72,"body":"spills out from that sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":485.58,"endTime":492.72,"body":"premise, the basic orientation"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":492.72,"endTime":496.68,"body":"of a process philosophy. But"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":492.72,"endTime":496.68,"body":"that's the basic starting point,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":497.28,"endTime":497.52,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":497.52,"endTime":499.92,"body":"Okay, that's,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":497.52,"endTime":499.92,"body":"yeah, that's great. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":499.92,"endTime":503.3,"body":"like that. I feel like it's a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":499.92,"endTime":503.3,"body":"little bit of a foreshadowing of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":503.3,"endTime":506.06,"body":"where we may end up in this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":503.3,"endTime":506.06,"body":"conversation, which is talking"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":506.06,"endTime":510.5,"body":"about Ian McGilchrist and the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":506.06,"endTime":510.5,"body":"brain hemispheres, but, but,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":510.5,"endTime":513.14,"body":"yeah, it's like, it's a good"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":510.5,"endTime":513.14,"body":"reminder, because I feel like so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":513.14,"endTime":515.96,"body":"much of western philosophy that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":513.14,"endTime":515.96,"body":"came after that, like after"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":515.96,"endTime":519.2,"body":"Plato and after all, that was,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":515.96,"endTime":519.2,"body":"was not that right? It was, it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":519.2,"endTime":522.64,"body":"was kind of, it was more"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":519.2,"endTime":522.64,"body":"abstracted, it was more"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":523.06,"endTime":526.36,"body":"rational. It was more sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":523.06,"endTime":526.36,"body":"removed from immediate"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":526.36,"endTime":529.48,"body":"experience. And this idea of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":526.36,"endTime":529.48,"body":"flow and everything was kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":529.48,"endTime":533.26,"body":"anathema too, especially like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":529.48,"endTime":533.26,"body":"once you hit, you know, Newton"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":533.26,"endTime":536.5,"body":"and the Enlightenment all that,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":533.26,"endTime":536.5,"body":"then, you know, then the idea of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":536.5,"endTime":540.34,"body":"flow and process kind of fell"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":536.5,"endTime":540.34,"body":"away, right? So, so I think it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":540.34,"endTime":543.12,"body":"really crucial, and it's such a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":540.34,"endTime":543.12,"body":"pregnant time for that to be for"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":543.12,"endTime":546.72,"body":"that to be reintroduced or to be"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":543.12,"endTime":546.72,"body":"talking about that. So we'll"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":546.72,"endTime":551.22,"body":"come back to that in a second."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":546.72,"endTime":551.22,"body":"But I wanted to jump to the role"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":551.22,"endTime":556.08,"body":"of philosophy in sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":551.22,"endTime":556.08,"body":"mainstream culture or in our"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":556.08,"endTime":559.44,"body":"present time, because I feel"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":556.08,"endTime":559.44,"body":"like it's a time, like it's a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":559.44,"endTime":562.7,"body":"time of ideological ferment. I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":559.44,"endTime":562.7,"body":"think we can all agree, right?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":562.76,"endTime":565.94,"body":"And, you know, especially"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":562.76,"endTime":565.94,"body":"because of AI and what's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":565.94,"endTime":570.14,"body":"happening in Silicon Valley and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":565.94,"endTime":570.14,"body":"what's happening in politics, to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":570.14,"endTime":572.72,"body":"me, it all feels kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":570.14,"endTime":572.72,"body":"connected. And before we started"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":572.72,"endTime":575.36,"body":"recording, we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":572.72,"endTime":575.36,"body":"how Peter Thiel is doing this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":575.36,"endTime":577.88,"body":"four part lecture series in San"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":575.36,"endTime":577.88,"body":"Francisco right now about the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":577.88,"endTime":583.0,"body":"Antichrist. And I just, to me,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":577.88,"endTime":583.0,"body":"it seems like a very strange,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":583.18,"endTime":588.52,"body":"even bizarre, like time to be"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":583.18,"endTime":588.52,"body":"alive, because these ideas are"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":588.52,"endTime":591.64,"body":"kind of reaching the mainstream."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":588.52,"endTime":591.64,"body":"These ideas, what you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":591.64,"endTime":597.4,"body":"whether it's transhumanism or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":591.64,"endTime":597.4,"body":"techno Christianity or the dark"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":597.4,"endTime":600.48,"body":"enlightenment, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":597.4,"endTime":600.48,"body":"are all like being. Taken"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":600.48,"endTime":606.24,"body":"seriously and presenting what I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":600.48,"endTime":606.24,"body":"feel is both a challenge and an"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":606.24,"endTime":609.9,"body":"opportunity for other folks,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":606.24,"endTime":609.9,"body":"like you know, for like us or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":609.9,"endTime":613.62,"body":"whoever, to hopefully bring like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":609.9,"endTime":613.62,"body":"a different perspective, right?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":613.98,"endTime":616.98,"body":"So, because a lot of what's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":613.98,"endTime":616.98,"body":"happening, I feel is there's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":616.98,"endTime":621.32,"body":"this false choice being offered"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":616.98,"endTime":621.32,"body":"by these, people I mentioned, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":621.32,"endTime":625.16,"body":"by people like even like the New"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":621.32,"endTime":625.16,"body":"Atheists or Sam Harris, there's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":625.16,"endTime":629.84,"body":"a false choice between secular"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":625.16,"endTime":629.84,"body":"rationalism or physicalism,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":629.84,"endTime":633.62,"body":"scientism, and then sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":629.84,"endTime":633.62,"body":"traditional, Abrahamic faiths."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":633.62,"endTime":637.76,"body":"But there's no sort of, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":633.62,"endTime":637.76,"body":"third way. And I feel like a lot"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":637.76,"endTime":640.78,"body":"of what's beautiful about the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":637.76,"endTime":640.78,"body":"philosophy cosmology and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":640.78,"endTime":644.02,"body":"consciousness program and your"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":640.78,"endTime":644.02,"body":"work and and all that is that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":644.02,"endTime":647.68,"body":"it, it offers a third way, in a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":644.02,"endTime":647.68,"body":"sense of, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":647.68,"endTime":651.52,"body":"have to choose between sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":647.68,"endTime":651.52,"body":"science and religion. We can,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":651.52,"endTime":657.94,"body":"sort of, we can bring in process"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":651.52,"endTime":657.94,"body":"philosophy or different, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":657.94,"endTime":661.86,"body":"know, Eastern traditions, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":657.94,"endTime":661.86,"body":"what, whatever it is. And so I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":661.86,"endTime":665.58,"body":"guess, having said all that you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":661.86,"endTime":665.58,"body":"know, do you see this as a time"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":665.58,"endTime":672.78,"body":"of maybe increasing relevance of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":665.58,"endTime":672.78,"body":"philosophy generally and and how"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":672.78,"endTime":677.7,"body":"do you see the role of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":672.78,"endTime":677.7,"body":"philosophers in potentially"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":677.7,"endTime":681.38,"body":"shifting our share shared"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":677.7,"endTime":681.38,"body":"worldview, that's a big"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":681.38,"endTime":682.52,"body":"question. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":682.82,"endTime":685.88,"body":"yeah, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":682.82,"endTime":685.88,"body":"in a really pregnant moment,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":685.88,"endTime":694.1,"body":"precisely because of how chaotic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":685.88,"endTime":694.1,"body":"it is. And it's pregnant in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":694.1,"endTime":699.02,"body":"sense that we're between"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":694.1,"endTime":699.02,"body":"stories, as Thomas Berry would"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":699.02,"endTime":705.22,"body":"put it, or between cosmologies,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":699.02,"endTime":705.22,"body":"the old say world view of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":706.18,"endTime":711.34,"body":"whichever level we want to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":706.18,"endTime":711.34,"body":"articulate it from say, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":711.34,"endTime":716.86,"body":"liberal political world order,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":711.34,"endTime":716.86,"body":"like is broken down, the myth of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":716.86,"endTime":720.34,"body":"progress, where, through The"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":716.86,"endTime":720.34,"body":"spread of democracy and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":720.34,"endTime":723.78,"body":"capitalism and technology,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":720.34,"endTime":723.78,"body":"things are just going to get"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":723.84,"endTime":728.1,"body":"better and better. Very few"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":723.84,"endTime":728.1,"body":"people believe that anymore. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":728.1,"endTime":730.32,"body":"mean, there's still a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":728.1,"endTime":730.32,"body":"people who do, but it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":731.1,"endTime":735.42,"body":"increasingly being called into"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":731.1,"endTime":735.42,"body":"question. And what is the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":735.78,"endTime":740.54,"body":"alternative myth for our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":735.78,"endTime":740.54,"body":"civilization? The alternative"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":740.54,"endTime":744.8,"body":"sort of motivating story that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":740.54,"endTime":744.8,"body":"drives us to work together. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":744.8,"endTime":749.06,"body":"don't know. Nobody knows. And so"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":744.8,"endTime":749.06,"body":"Peter Thiel has his idea. He's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.14,"body":"within the Maga orbit. But even"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.14,"body":"within Maga and the Trump"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":753.14,"endTime":756.62,"body":"umbrella, there's a variety of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":753.14,"endTime":756.62,"body":"competing factions in terms of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":756.62,"endTime":759.74,"body":"political opposition. The"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":756.62,"endTime":759.74,"body":"Democrats are a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":759.74,"endTime":762.04,"body":"chickens running around with"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":759.74,"endTime":762.04,"body":"their heads cut off. There's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":762.04,"endTime":769.9,"body":"various forms of progressive and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":762.04,"endTime":769.9,"body":"left wing political philosophies"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":769.9,"endTime":773.56,"body":"that are constantly infighting,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":769.9,"endTime":773.56,"body":"and so it's no it's not clear"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":773.56,"endTime":778.24,"body":"who's going to capture the flag."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":773.56,"endTime":778.24,"body":"And in that context, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":778.66,"endTime":784.98,"body":"philosophers and philosophy has"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":778.66,"endTime":784.98,"body":"an increased importance, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":784.98,"endTime":788.04,"body":"Because we're going back to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":784.98,"endTime":788.04,"body":"first principles we're really"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":788.04,"endTime":791.22,"body":"trying to understand. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":788.04,"endTime":791.22,"body":"well, what is human nature"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":791.22,"endTime":794.04,"body":"anyways? And what are we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":791.22,"endTime":794.04,"body":"supposed to be doing here on"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":794.04,"endTime":798.24,"body":"this planet? What is the nature"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":794.04,"endTime":798.24,"body":"of this universe that has"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":798.3,"endTime":801.68,"body":"brought forth creatures capable"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":798.3,"endTime":801.68,"body":"of even asking about their own"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":801.68,"endTime":805.46,"body":"nature and organizing a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":801.68,"endTime":805.46,"body":"civilization? Everything now is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":805.46,"endTime":809.96,"body":"on the table. And I think to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":805.46,"endTime":809.96,"body":"look at a historical period that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":809.96,"endTime":814.58,"body":"would be a little bit like ours."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":809.96,"endTime":814.58,"body":"It's a bit like the first few"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":814.58,"endTime":818.12,"body":"centuries of the first"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":814.58,"endTime":818.12,"body":"millennium, when you know the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":818.12,"endTime":821.8,"body":"Roman Empire was was in place."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":818.12,"endTime":821.8,"body":"But by the third or fourth"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":821.8,"endTime":826.96,"body":"century, like it's starting to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":821.8,"endTime":826.96,"body":"begin its collapse. And I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":827.56,"endTime":831.52,"body":"the American empire may be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":827.56,"endTime":831.52,"body":"pretty far along in its collapse"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":831.52,"endTime":838.84,"body":"right now. And at that time in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":831.52,"endTime":838.84,"body":"the Mediterranean, and, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":838.84,"endTime":841.32,"body":"know, in the Roman world, there"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":838.84,"endTime":841.32,"body":"were all these competing"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":841.32,"endTime":844.92,"body":"philosophies and schools. There"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":841.32,"endTime":844.92,"body":"was Plato's Academy, Aristotle's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":845.1,"endTime":849.0,"body":"lyceum. There were the Stoics,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":845.1,"endTime":849.0,"body":"the Epicureans, the skeptics,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":850.14,"endTime":854.34,"body":"and they all had very different"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":850.14,"endTime":854.34,"body":"conceptions of what the human"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":854.34,"endTime":857.46,"body":"being is, what is the good life?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":854.34,"endTime":857.46,"body":"How are we to be orienting"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":857.46,"endTime":865.4,"body":"ourselves? And the Roman Empire"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":857.46,"endTime":865.4,"body":"was so large and seemed so like"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":865.4,"endTime":869.96,"body":"civic life that was at such a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":865.4,"endTime":869.96,"body":"gigantic scale, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":869.96,"endTime":872.36,"body":"people feel that way about the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":869.96,"endTime":872.36,"body":"nature of our global"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":872.36,"endTime":875.3,"body":"civilization right now. People"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":872.36,"endTime":875.3,"body":"began increase as that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":875.36,"endTime":878.96,"body":"especially as that global system"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":875.36,"endTime":878.96,"body":"began to break down, and our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":878.96,"endTime":881.74,"body":"national systems begin to break"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":878.96,"endTime":881.74,"body":"down, and people are losing"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":881.74,"endTime":885.88,"body":"trust in government. People are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":881.74,"endTime":885.88,"body":"turning inward and beginning to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":886.18,"endTime":889.96,"body":"explore their own consciousness."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":886.18,"endTime":889.96,"body":"Sometimes this leads to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":890.02,"endTime":896.92,"body":"conspiratorial thinking as sort"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":890.02,"endTime":896.92,"body":"of mass media and legitimate"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":897.22,"endTime":900.6,"body":"outlets of information are no"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":897.22,"endTime":900.6,"body":"longer available. People create"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":900.6,"endTime":904.38,"body":"their own versions of their own"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":900.6,"endTime":904.38,"body":"explanations for what's what's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":904.38,"endTime":908.16,"body":"going on, who the big players"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":904.38,"endTime":908.16,"body":"and movers and shakers in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":908.16,"endTime":910.92,"body":"world are, but also, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":908.16,"endTime":910.92,"body":"people start exploring their own"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":911.1,"endTime":917.16,"body":"inner life. And while philosophy"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":911.1,"endTime":917.16,"body":"might be dying or already dead"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":917.16,"endTime":921.38,"body":"within academia, in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":917.16,"endTime":921.38,"body":"ancient sense of philosophy as a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":921.38,"endTime":923.6,"body":"way of life where you can ask"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":921.38,"endTime":923.6,"body":"the big questions and find"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":923.6,"endTime":926.84,"body":"meaning, it seems to me, to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":923.6,"endTime":926.84,"body":"flourishing outside of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":926.84,"endTime":934.34,"body":"academic context. People are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":926.84,"endTime":934.34,"body":"really hungry for philosophical"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":934.34,"endTime":939.62,"body":"direction and and insight. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":934.34,"endTime":939.62,"body":"it's both the best of times and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":939.62,"endTime":940.48,"body":"the worst of times."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":940.96,"endTime":943.78,"body":"Yeah for Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":940.96,"endTime":943.78,"body":"but, you know, yeah, I agree"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":943.78,"endTime":946.6,"body":"with that. And I guess the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":943.78,"endTime":946.6,"body":"question that I'm constantly"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":946.6,"endTime":950.26,"body":"asking myself is because you're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":946.6,"endTime":950.26,"body":"saying that people, people are"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":950.26,"endTime":954.46,"body":"sort of, like, maybe a more open"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":950.26,"endTime":954.46,"body":"to new ideas, or, like, looking"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":954.46,"endTime":959.08,"body":"inwards, searching, searching"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":954.46,"endTime":959.08,"body":"and seeking. But you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":959.08,"endTime":961.62,"body":"so easy for them to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":959.08,"endTime":961.62,"body":"when you look at who's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":961.62,"endTime":965.22,"body":"dominating the podcast charts,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":961.62,"endTime":965.22,"body":"for example, or, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":965.22,"endTime":969.42,"body":"best sellers or YouTube or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":965.22,"endTime":969.42,"body":"whatever, it's so easy to sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":969.42,"endTime":973.2,"body":"of like, you know, encounter"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":969.42,"endTime":973.2,"body":"these kind of false peaks, so to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":973.2,"endTime":975.96,"body":"speak, like, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":973.2,"endTime":975.96,"body":"you'll just see like, oh, this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":975.96,"endTime":979.86,"body":"popular guy, you know, Jordan"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":975.96,"endTime":979.86,"body":"Peterson, or whoever you know."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":979.86,"endTime":982.04,"body":"Like, you can encounter somebody"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":979.86,"endTime":982.04,"body":"and think, like, Oh, this guy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":982.16,"endTime":985.1,"body":"seems to have wisdom. He seems"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":982.16,"endTime":985.1,"body":"to be offering, like, a new"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":985.1,"endTime":989.48,"body":"alternative philosophy or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":985.1,"endTime":989.48,"body":"whatever. But maybe it's not,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":989.54,"endTime":992.96,"body":"you know, the best thing for"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":989.54,"endTime":992.96,"body":"everyone. So, like, how do you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":993.2,"endTime":996.44,"body":"how does a person, I guess, a,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":993.2,"endTime":996.44,"body":"like, how do we help people just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":996.5,"endTime":999.98,"body":"sort of cultivate discernment?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":996.5,"endTime":999.98,"body":"And B, yeah, like, how do, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":999.98,"endTime":1002.44,"body":"guess, that's the question is,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":999.98,"endTime":1002.44,"body":"how do you help people cultivate"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1002.44,"endTime":1004.26,"body":"discernment? Cultivate"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1002.44,"endTime":1004.26,"body":"discernment, you know, or how do"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1004.26,"endTime":1005.64,"body":"you expose them to the right"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1004.26,"endTime":1005.64,"body":"thinking?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1005.64,"endTime":1007.92,"body":"You know, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1005.64,"endTime":1007.92,"body":"the most important question to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1007.92,"endTime":1012.54,"body":"ask right now. Like, yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1007.92,"endTime":1012.54,"body":"all, we all, I include myself."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1012.54,"endTime":1017.58,"body":"Need guidance when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1012.54,"endTime":1017.58,"body":"psychic and intellectual"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1017.58,"endTime":1022.1,"body":"hygiene, there are no filters"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1017.58,"endTime":1022.1,"body":"anymore, and it's not like the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1022.1,"endTime":1025.58,"body":"mass media that used to do the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1022.1,"endTime":1025.58,"body":"filtering for us could always be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1025.58,"endTime":1028.46,"body":"trusted, either, but there was"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1025.58,"endTime":1028.46,"body":"at least a coherent narrative"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1028.46,"endTime":1033.14,"body":"that allowed us to kind of go"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1028.46,"endTime":1033.14,"body":"about doing democracy in a more"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1033.14,"endTime":1036.32,"body":"or less reasonable way, even if"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1033.14,"endTime":1036.32,"body":"there were many shadows and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1039.98,"body":"things that you know going on"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1039.98,"body":"behind the scenes that were that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1039.98,"endTime":1044.62,"body":"were terrible. Now it's a total"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1039.98,"endTime":1044.62,"body":"information war. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1044.62,"endTime":1047.38,"body":"these major events are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1044.62,"endTime":1047.38,"body":"occurring. People are getting"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1047.38,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"assassinated. It feels like"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1047.38,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"we're back in the 1960s again in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1057.58,"body":"terms of the level of political"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1057.58,"body":"violence. And who do you trust"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1057.58,"endTime":1061.38,"body":"to interpret and understand and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1057.58,"endTime":1061.38,"body":"explain motivations? Who's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1061.38,"endTime":1066.78,"body":"really responsible? I don't have"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1061.38,"endTime":1066.78,"body":"good answers to that, other than"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1066.78,"endTime":1073.8,"body":"be a student of history. Try to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1066.78,"endTime":1073.8,"body":"see how you know history doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1073.8,"endTime":1077.1,"body":"repeat exactly, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1073.8,"endTime":1077.1,"body":"process philosopher. But as I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1077.1,"endTime":1081.08,"body":"think it was, Mark Twain said,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1077.1,"endTime":1081.08,"body":"It rhymes. And so we can look to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1081.08,"endTime":1084.92,"body":"the 1930s and 40s to understand"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1081.08,"endTime":1084.92,"body":"our moment. We can look to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1086.36,"endTime":1091.28,"body":"ancient Roman times and how, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1086.36,"endTime":1091.28,"body":"know, the last sort of I get."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1091.28,"endTime":1093.8,"body":"You know, there was the British"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1091.28,"endTime":1093.8,"body":"Empire, but I think the Roman"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1093.8,"endTime":1097.46,"body":"Empire, the British Empire,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1093.8,"endTime":1097.46,"body":"these are examples we can look"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1097.46,"endTime":1101.44,"body":"back to and see how that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1097.46,"endTime":1101.44,"body":"situation developed and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1101.44,"endTime":1104.38,"body":"unraveled to understand the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1101.44,"endTime":1104.38,"body":"current situation with the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1104.38,"endTime":1110.74,"body":"American Empire, but the present"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1104.38,"endTime":1110.74,"body":"is always going to surprise us."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1111.46,"endTime":1113.44,"body":"Yeah, we don't know what's going"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1111.46,"endTime":1113.44,"body":"to happen tomorrow."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1113.98,"endTime":1116.38,"body":"That's true,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1113.98,"endTime":1116.38,"body":"yeah? And maybe there's nothing"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1116.38,"endTime":1120.42,"body":"you know. Well, I always think"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1116.38,"endTime":1120.42,"body":"about the yoga tradition, or the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1120.42,"endTime":1123.72,"body":"yoga dantic tradition, which,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1120.42,"endTime":1123.72,"body":"you know, there's these, these"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1123.72,"endTime":1127.74,"body":"texts and these, these kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1123.72,"endTime":1127.74,"body":"ancient teachers who offer these"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1127.74,"endTime":1131.4,"body":"techniques for cultivating"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1127.74,"endTime":1131.4,"body":"discernment. And so that's like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1131.52,"endTime":1134.64,"body":"one thing that I turn to. But,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1131.52,"endTime":1134.64,"body":"you know, it might not work for"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.0,"body":"everyone, but, but, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.0,"body":"Anyways, that's two"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1138.0,"endTime":1141.14,"body":"good two good"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1138.0,"endTime":1141.14,"body":"suggestions meditation practice."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1141.5,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"I mean, if you're very easily"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1141.5,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"brought into a heightened state"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1145.52,"endTime":1148.1,"body":"of emotional reactivity by"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1145.52,"endTime":1148.1,"body":"something you read on social"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1148.1,"endTime":1151.58,"body":"media, you're gonna have a hard"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1148.1,"endTime":1151.58,"body":"time navigating this information"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1151.7,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"ecology, so being able to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1151.7,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"moderate your own mental"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1157.7,"endTime":1162.22,"body":"processes, which is what"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1157.7,"endTime":1162.22,"body":"meditation helps you cultivate"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1162.46,"endTime":1165.94,"body":"super important and studying"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1162.46,"endTime":1165.94,"body":"some history and yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1166.0,"endTime":1166.66,"body":"philosophy,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1167.38,"endTime":1169.3,"body":"yeah, which you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1167.38,"endTime":1169.3,"body":"know is that maybe it's a big"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1169.3,"endTime":1172.54,"body":"ask in the age of, like, when"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1169.3,"endTime":1172.54,"body":"nobody's reading anything, but,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1172.84,"endTime":1176.44,"body":"but, yeah. I guess the other"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1172.84,"endTime":1176.44,"body":"thing, though, is maybe there's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1176.44,"endTime":1180.66,"body":"nothing to do. Like, maybe I was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1176.44,"endTime":1180.66,"body":"reading a quote while I was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1180.66,"endTime":1183.6,"body":"reading part of Joseph"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1180.66,"endTime":1183.6,"body":"Campbell's The Hero with 1000"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1183.96,"endTime":1189.9,"body":"faces. And in that, in that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1183.96,"endTime":1189.9,"body":"book, he quotes from, I think it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1189.9,"endTime":1194.4,"body":"was Lisa, I have it here, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1189.9,"endTime":1194.4,"body":"Arnold Toynbee, there's great"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1194.4,"endTime":1199.08,"body":"Toynbee quote that I'll read,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1194.4,"endTime":1199.08,"body":"schism in the soul, schism in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1199.08,"endTime":1202.34,"body":"the body, Social. Rule will not"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1199.08,"endTime":1202.34,"body":"be resolved by any scheme of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1202.34,"endTime":1206.48,"body":"return to the good old days,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1202.34,"endTime":1206.48,"body":"archaism, or by programs"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1206.48,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"guaranteed to render an ideal,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1206.48,"endTime":1210.38,"body":"projected future, Futurism, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1210.38,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"even by the most realistic, hard"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1210.38,"endTime":1213.86,"body":"headed work to weld together"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1213.86,"endTime":1217.94,"body":"again the disintegrating"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1213.86,"endTime":1217.94,"body":"elements, only birth can conquer"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1217.94,"endTime":1221.62,"body":"death, the birth, not of the old"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1217.94,"endTime":1221.62,"body":"thing again, but of something"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1221.62,"endTime":1224.5,"body":"new, kind of like you're talking"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1221.62,"endTime":1224.5,"body":"about with process, with"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1224.5,"endTime":1227.62,"body":"process. But the idea there, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1224.5,"endTime":1227.62,"body":"guess, that I like, is that,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1227.62,"endTime":1230.08,"body":"like you were kind of saying"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1227.62,"endTime":1230.08,"body":"before, we're going through"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1230.08,"endTime":1233.32,"body":"maybe, you know, a certain kind"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1230.08,"endTime":1233.32,"body":"of death experience as a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1233.32,"endTime":1236.2,"body":"society, and maybe the only"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1233.32,"endTime":1236.2,"body":"thing to do is let that process"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1236.2,"endTime":1240.84,"body":"play out and and maybe, aside"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1236.2,"endTime":1240.84,"body":"from that, try to minimize"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1240.84,"endTime":1244.56,"body":"suffering. And, you know, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1240.84,"endTime":1244.56,"body":"I mean, maybe there's not much"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1244.56,"endTime":1248.7,"body":"you can do, I guess, to correct"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1244.56,"endTime":1248.7,"body":"things until maybe people won't"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1248.7,"endTime":1252.12,"body":"wake up until things get really"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1248.7,"endTime":1252.12,"body":"bad or something. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1252.36,"endTime":1252.78,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1253.08,"endTime":1256.08,"body":"There's no question"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1253.08,"endTime":1256.08,"body":"that the you know, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1256.08,"endTime":1258.6,"body":"Toynbee and I immediately I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1256.08,"endTime":1258.6,"body":"think about the role that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1258.6,"endTime":1263.3,"body":"spirituality and religion play"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1258.6,"endTime":1263.3,"body":"and motivating a civilization."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1263.3,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"He thought that that was really,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1263.3,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"it's kind of, kind of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1266.06,"endTime":1268.34,"body":"opposite, opposite of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1266.06,"endTime":1268.34,"body":"Marxist understanding of how"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1268.34,"endTime":1272.84,"body":"civilizations work, not that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1268.34,"endTime":1272.84,"body":"you know, not that material"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1272.84,"endTime":1276.02,"body":"conditions don't matter. But I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1272.84,"endTime":1276.02,"body":"think there is a spiritual"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1276.02,"endTime":1280.3,"body":"dimension to all this. We're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1276.02,"endTime":1280.3,"body":"conscious beings, and so the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1280.3,"endTime":1282.52,"body":"ideas that we have about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1280.3,"endTime":1282.52,"body":"ourselves in the world are, of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1282.52,"endTime":1285.28,"body":"course, going to shape how we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1282.52,"endTime":1285.28,"body":"behave, how we act, how we treat"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1285.28,"endTime":1289.66,"body":"each other. And I think about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1285.28,"endTime":1289.66,"body":"you mentioned the Abrahamic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1289.66,"endTime":1293.92,"body":"faiths earlier, and how"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1289.66,"endTime":1293.92,"body":"obviously they've become the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1293.92,"endTime":1301.14,"body":"institutions that have taken"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1293.92,"endTime":1301.14,"body":"form to mediate and enforce the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1301.14,"endTime":1306.9,"body":"doctrines of these traditions"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1301.14,"endTime":1306.9,"body":"are quite rigid, rigid,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1306.9,"endTime":1310.56,"body":"inflexible, and we could easily"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1306.9,"endTime":1310.56,"body":"question to what extent they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1310.56,"endTime":1314.88,"body":"actually offering real support"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1310.56,"endTime":1314.88,"body":"to the further evolution of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1314.88,"endTime":1319.68,"body":"human species. However, if we go"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1314.88,"endTime":1319.68,"body":"back a few 1000 years again, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1319.68,"endTime":1324.14,"body":"know to the first century, when"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1319.68,"endTime":1324.14,"body":"this, this dude, Jesus, is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1324.14,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"alleged to have walked around"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1324.14,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"and done some stuff the people"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1328.94,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"in that time, where they had a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1328.94,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"whole rather large menu of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1335.24,"endTime":1337.7,"body":"spiritual, religious,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1335.24,"endTime":1337.7,"body":"philosophical options to choose"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1337.7,"endTime":1345.58,"body":"From. And there was a lot of, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1337.7,"endTime":1345.58,"body":"would say cosmological pluralism"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1345.58,"endTime":1350.26,"body":"and uncertainty. You know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1345.58,"endTime":1350.26,"body":"whatever we might say about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1350.44,"endTime":1355.36,"body":"Christianity and how stale most"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1350.44,"endTime":1355.36,"body":"of the institutional churches"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1355.36,"endTime":1359.62,"body":"are today at that point,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1355.36,"endTime":1359.62,"body":"whatever it was that happened"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1360.04,"endTime":1364.92,"body":"seemed to it was like a super"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1360.04,"endTime":1364.92,"body":"saturated, saturated solution"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1364.92,"endTime":1368.4,"body":"just before crystallization, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1364.92,"endTime":1368.4,"body":"like Jesus did something, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1368.4,"endTime":1372.36,"body":"then all of a sudden, this new"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1368.4,"endTime":1372.36,"body":"social movement erupts that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1375.78,"body":"within a couple of centuries,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1375.78,"body":"has taken over the largest"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1375.78,"endTime":1380.6,"body":"empire at that point in world"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1375.78,"endTime":1380.6,"body":"history. And in large part the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1380.6,"endTime":1386.3,"body":"reason Christianity has become"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1380.6,"endTime":1386.3,"body":"more of a conservative force and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1386.3,"endTime":1390.56,"body":"maybe limiting human evolution"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1386.3,"endTime":1390.56,"body":"in our time is because of that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1390.56,"endTime":1396.68,"body":"merger with the Roman Empire."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1390.56,"endTime":1396.68,"body":"But you know, if we fast forward"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1396.68,"endTime":1400.36,"body":"to our time, then there"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1396.68,"endTime":1400.36,"body":"similarly feels to be a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1400.66,"endTime":1407.02,"body":"cosmological uncertainty we are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1400.66,"endTime":1407.02,"body":"in terms of a guiding worldview"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1407.02,"endTime":1411.52,"body":"for a planetary civilization"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1407.02,"endTime":1411.52,"body":"that's trying to sort of find"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1411.52,"endTime":1416.14,"body":"its sea legs. There are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1411.52,"endTime":1416.14,"body":"options on the table, and it"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1416.14,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"seems to me that we're just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1416.14,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"waiting for that spark, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1419.68,"endTime":1425.1,"body":"whether that comes in the form"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1419.68,"endTime":1425.1,"body":"of a single person or a new kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1425.1,"endTime":1429.96,"body":"of community or a new idea, or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1425.1,"endTime":1429.96,"body":"some combination of all three of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1429.96,"endTime":1434.4,"body":"those, and other factors, I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1429.96,"endTime":1434.4,"body":"like we're on the verge of some"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1434.4,"endTime":1438.06,"body":"sort of major spiritual shift"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1434.4,"endTime":1438.06,"body":"that reorients people's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1438.06,"endTime":1442.64,"body":"perception and motivations."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1438.06,"endTime":1442.64,"body":"Could be 100 years away. You"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1442.64,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"know, in world history terms, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1442.64,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"century, you know, is not a long"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1451.16,"body":"time, and we have to be patient"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1451.16,"body":"in order to see these things"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1451.46,"endTime":1454.94,"body":"really unfold. But I think, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1451.46,"endTime":1454.94,"body":"know, all that occurs to me just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1454.94,"endTime":1459.08,"body":"because you mentioned Toynbee"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1454.94,"endTime":1459.08,"body":"and his philosophy of history, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1459.08,"endTime":1463.84,"body":"think recognizes these massive,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1459.08,"endTime":1463.84,"body":"rather rapid transformations at"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1463.84,"endTime":1466.54,"body":"the level of consciousness that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1463.84,"endTime":1466.54,"body":"this plays a really important"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1466.54,"endTime":1470.38,"body":"role in how our species does its"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1466.54,"endTime":1470.38,"body":"thing on this planet. Yeah?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1470.38,"endTime":1472.72,"body":"Like, I like what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1470.38,"endTime":1472.72,"body":"you said about was it a super"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1472.72,"endTime":1477.4,"body":"saturated solution or whatever?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1472.72,"endTime":1477.4,"body":"Yeah, that's interesting. It's a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1477.4,"endTime":1479.86,"body":"very optimistic way of looking"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1477.4,"endTime":1479.86,"body":"at the current situation, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1479.86,"endTime":1482.88,"body":"the more sort of philosophies"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1479.86,"endTime":1482.88,"body":"and ideologies that are out"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1482.88,"endTime":1486.24,"body":"there, the maybe, the better the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1482.88,"endTime":1486.24,"body":"Chad, the greater the chances of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1486.24,"endTime":1490.68,"body":"one of them catching hold. But"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1486.24,"endTime":1490.68,"body":"yeah, this idea of sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1490.68,"endTime":1496.2,"body":"leader to take us out of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1490.68,"endTime":1496.2,"body":"mess is interesting because, is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1496.2,"endTime":1500.78,"body":"it Gavin Newsom? Because, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1496.2,"endTime":1500.78,"body":"know, it. Reminds me of, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1503.36,"body":"I'm so I'm reading just, just to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1503.36,"body":"pull my cards on the table, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1503.36,"endTime":1508.58,"body":"I'm reading this new book by"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1503.36,"endTime":1508.58,"body":"Paul. Is it Paul Kingsnorth, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1508.58,"endTime":1513.14,"body":"know, against the machine. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1508.58,"endTime":1513.14,"body":"he talks about spanglers sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1513.14,"endTime":1516.02,"body":"view of the way that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1513.14,"endTime":1516.02,"body":"civilizations unfold, and how,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1517.1,"endTime":1520.04,"body":"like one side in his theory,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1517.1,"endTime":1520.04,"body":"like one sign of, sort of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1520.04,"endTime":1522.7,"body":"end times of a particular"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1520.04,"endTime":1522.7,"body":"civilization is the appearance"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1522.7,"endTime":1526.18,"body":"of a Caesar, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1522.7,"endTime":1526.18,"body":"appearance of, like, a leader"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1526.18,"endTime":1530.2,"body":"who is going to guide us into"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1526.18,"endTime":1530.2,"body":"the further decline, you know."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1530.2,"endTime":1533.86,"body":"So it's like, Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1530.2,"endTime":1533.86,"body":"interesting. Like, in terms of,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1533.86,"endTime":1537.58,"body":"like, thinking about a singular"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1533.86,"endTime":1537.58,"body":"figure, you know, it's like, how"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1537.58,"endTime":1540.22,"body":"do you know which way they're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1537.58,"endTime":1540.22,"body":"going to take us, and who that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1540.22,"endTime":1543.0,"body":"going to be and all that stuff,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1540.22,"endTime":1543.0,"body":"yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. It"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1543.0,"endTime":1548.22,"body":"also reminds me of this great GK"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1543.0,"endTime":1548.22,"body":"Chesterton quote about, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1548.22,"endTime":1551.34,"body":"what you were saying about sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1548.22,"endTime":1551.34,"body":"of the way that conservatives"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1551.34,"endTime":1554.46,"body":"and liberals have have taken"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1551.34,"endTime":1554.46,"body":"things. I think you said"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1554.46,"endTime":1558.0,"body":"something like, the whole modern"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1554.46,"endTime":1558.0,"body":"world is divided into"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1558.48,"endTime":1562.22,"body":"conservatives and progressives,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1558.48,"endTime":1562.22,"body":"and the business of progressives"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1562.34,"endTime":1565.82,"body":"is to, like something like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1562.34,"endTime":1565.82,"body":"yeah, make mistakes, and the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1565.82,"endTime":1568.58,"body":"business of conservatives is to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1565.82,"endTime":1568.58,"body":"prevent mistakes from being"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1568.58,"endTime":1573.2,"body":"corrected. I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1568.58,"endTime":1573.2,"body":"he said, what he said, anyways,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1573.62,"endTime":1578.12,"body":"anyways. So I think what I want"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1573.62,"endTime":1578.12,"body":"to do is move on to talking"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1578.12,"endTime":1582.58,"body":"about, like, some AI and some of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1578.12,"endTime":1582.58,"body":"these ideologies, and a little"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1582.58,"endTime":1585.94,"body":"bit greater depth. Because, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1582.58,"endTime":1585.94,"body":"know, one reason I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1585.94,"endTime":1588.76,"body":"talk to you was that when I was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1585.94,"endTime":1588.76,"body":"finishing my Masters in the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1588.76,"endTime":1593.86,"body":"program you had, you had turned"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1588.76,"endTime":1593.86,"body":"me on to both this sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1593.98,"endTime":1598.48,"body":"concept of this test, real"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1593.98,"endTime":1598.48,"body":"bundle, this, this acronym for"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1598.48,"endTime":1601.32,"body":"these, these Silicon Valley"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1598.48,"endTime":1601.32,"body":"ideologies that are basically"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1601.32,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"transhumanism, rationalism,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1601.32,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"Effective Altruism and other"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"ones too. And then also, you had"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"pointed me to some of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1609.24,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"critics that are sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1609.24,"endTime":1612.18,"body":"critique, critiquing those"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1612.18,"endTime":1615.48,"body":"ideologies. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1612.18,"endTime":1615.48,"body":"sent me on a whole journey ever"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1615.48,"endTime":1619.74,"body":"since this is, like a year and a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1615.48,"endTime":1619.74,"body":"half ago. Yeah, this includes"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1619.74,"endTime":1625.22,"body":"the work of timnit, gebru, Emil"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1619.74,"endTime":1625.22,"body":"Torres, Emily Bender, Alex"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1625.22,"endTime":1628.52,"body":"Hannah, and so, you know, part"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1625.22,"endTime":1628.52,"body":"of what I'm trying to do"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1628.52,"endTime":1631.04,"body":"because, because they're all,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1628.52,"endTime":1631.04,"body":"they're all approaching it very"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1631.04,"endTime":1635.06,"body":"effectively from a sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1631.04,"endTime":1635.06,"body":"critical, like, viewpoint. A lot"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1635.06,"endTime":1638.48,"body":"of it has to do with, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1635.06,"endTime":1638.48,"body":"eugenics for them. And these,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1638.48,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"yeah, these different kind of,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1638.48,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"like, almost like, almost like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1645.1,"body":"racist ideologies, and they're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1645.1,"body":"pointing to some of the problems"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1645.1,"endTime":1648.16,"body":"with transhumanism and all that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1645.1,"endTime":1648.16,"body":"from that standpoint. But to me,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1648.16,"endTime":1654.7,"body":"it still feels very sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1648.16,"endTime":1654.7,"body":"secular, rational, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1655.12,"endTime":1657.7,"body":"liberal in that sense. And so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1655.12,"endTime":1657.7,"body":"what part of what I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1657.7,"endTime":1661.32,"body":"do is approach it more from a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1657.7,"endTime":1661.32,"body":"philosophical standpoint and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1661.32,"endTime":1666.72,"body":"even an ensouled kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1661.32,"endTime":1666.72,"body":"viewpoint, and so, yeah, so you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1666.72,"endTime":1670.5,"body":"know, within all that, what I've"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1666.72,"endTime":1670.5,"body":"been thinking a lot about is the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1670.5,"endTime":1674.82,"body":"roots of these ideologies. So"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1670.5,"endTime":1674.82,"body":"when you look at like the the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1674.82,"endTime":1678.48,"body":"things that people talk about in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1674.82,"endTime":1678.48,"body":"Silicon Valley, going back to,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1678.48,"endTime":1684.02,"body":"you know, Peter Thiel, but also"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1678.48,"endTime":1684.02,"body":"the transhumanists and all those"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1684.02,"endTime":1688.16,"body":"folks that a lot of it seems"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1684.02,"endTime":1688.16,"body":"very imbalanced and left"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1688.16,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"hemisphere of the brain kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1688.16,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"thinking right. So this gets"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.54,"body":"into the work of Ian McGilchrist"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.54,"body":"and and also Nietzsche, of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1695.54,"endTime":1698.24,"body":"course, you know, who talked"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1695.54,"endTime":1698.24,"body":"about the Apollonian and the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1703.3,"body":"Dionysian imbalance in society."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1703.3,"body":"So, you know, a lot of what I'm"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1703.3,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"thinking about is how to talk to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1703.3,"endTime":1708.52,"body":"people about the McGilchrist"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1711.94,"body":"kind of perspective in a way"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1708.52,"endTime":1711.94,"body":"that's accessible, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1711.94,"endTime":1715.06,"body":"because that, if you read"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1711.94,"endTime":1715.06,"body":"McGilchrist like the matter with"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1715.06,"endTime":1718.06,"body":"things is what, like 3000 pages"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1715.06,"endTime":1718.06,"body":"or something, you know, and it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1718.06,"endTime":1721.62,"body":"a very, very effective, very"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1718.06,"endTime":1721.62,"body":"convincing case that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1724.5,"body":"essentially, ever since the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1721.68,"endTime":1724.5,"body":"enlightenment or previous, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1724.5,"endTime":1727.86,"body":"know, even further back, we've"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1724.5,"endTime":1727.86,"body":"been living in this kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1727.86,"endTime":1732.18,"body":"imbalanced approach to reality"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1727.86,"endTime":1732.18,"body":"and nature, which is very sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1732.18,"endTime":1736.56,"body":"of linear, extremely logical"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1732.18,"endTime":1736.56,"body":"thinking in parts instead of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1736.56,"endTime":1741.38,"body":"holes, and in terms of Like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1736.56,"endTime":1741.38,"body":"things instead of process and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1745.28,"body":"all that. So, so I've been"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1745.28,"body":"thinking about, like, how do we"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1745.28,"endTime":1748.82,"body":"talk about that in a way that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1745.28,"endTime":1748.82,"body":"more accessible? And I've been"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1748.82,"endTime":1752.96,"body":"kind of playing around with this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1748.82,"endTime":1752.96,"body":"Nietzschean idea of, like, the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1752.96,"endTime":1755.84,"body":"Apollonian, you know. And so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1752.96,"endTime":1755.84,"body":"I've been calling it the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1755.84,"endTime":1759.74,"body":"Apollonian mind virus, or, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1755.84,"endTime":1759.74,"body":"know, Apollonian intelligence"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1759.74,"endTime":1763.48,"body":"and that kind of thing. And so,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1759.74,"endTime":1763.48,"body":"you know, I'm just curious,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1763.48,"endTime":1766.36,"body":"like, to the extent that you've"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1763.48,"endTime":1766.36,"body":"been thinking about this, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1766.36,"endTime":1770.86,"body":"how do you think about what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1766.36,"endTime":1770.86,"body":"these transhumanist ideologies"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1770.86,"endTime":1774.7,"body":"kind of get wrong about about"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1770.86,"endTime":1774.7,"body":"the world, you know, how do you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1774.7,"endTime":1775.3,"body":"approach that?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1775.6,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I get"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1775.6,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"why you would associate them"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1778.06,"endTime":1783.58,"body":"with Ian McGilchrist left"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1778.06,"endTime":1783.58,"body":"hemisphere way of attending to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1783.58,"endTime":1787.6,"body":"the world based on what they"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1783.58,"endTime":1787.6,"body":"leave out, and their obsession"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1787.6,"endTime":1793.12,"body":"with Bayesian probabilities and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1787.6,"endTime":1793.12,"body":"this utilitarian calculus about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1793.42,"endTime":1796.18,"body":"the trillion lives that might"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1793.42,"endTime":1796.18,"body":"exist at some future point and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1796.72,"endTime":1801.145,"body":"and in our in our history. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1796.72,"endTime":1801.145,"body":"so I. Think that makes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1801.145,"endTime":1804.865,"body":"sense. But also, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1801.145,"endTime":1804.865,"body":"Torres and others who are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1804.865,"endTime":1810.205,"body":"critiquing these, this TESCREAL"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1804.865,"endTime":1810.205,"body":"nest of transhumanist"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1810.205,"endTime":1814.525,"body":"ideologies, there's a kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1810.205,"endTime":1814.525,"body":"religious enthusiasm that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1814.525,"endTime":1817.225,"body":"driving it, too, and actually"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1814.525,"endTime":1817.225,"body":"quite a bit of magical thinking."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1819.025,"endTime":1822.205,"body":"You know, you might think that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1819.025,"endTime":1822.205,"body":"what's his name? Not Jodorowsky."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1822.205,"endTime":1827.05,"body":"He's a movie filmmaker,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1822.205,"endTime":1827.05,"body":"Yudkowsky. Eliza Yudkowsky,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1827.05,"endTime":1831.01,"body":"that's his name. You know? He"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1827.05,"endTime":1831.01,"body":"someone like him. Might want to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1831.01,"endTime":1834.37,"body":"say, Oh, well, consciousness is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1831.01,"endTime":1834.37,"body":"some kind of computation in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1834.37,"endTime":1839.77,"body":"brain. And that's a neat"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1834.37,"endTime":1839.77,"body":"metaphor that does some work for"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1839.77,"endTime":1844.03,"body":"us philosophically, but it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1839.77,"endTime":1844.03,"body":"obviously a metaphor. And if you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1844.03,"endTime":1848.395,"body":"take it as a literal truth,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1844.03,"endTime":1848.395,"body":"it's, I think, a delusion. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1848.455,"endTime":1852.055,"body":"there's actually magical"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1848.455,"endTime":1852.055,"body":"thinking to imagine that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1852.055,"endTime":1856.975,"body":"consciousness, as we experience"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1852.055,"endTime":1856.975,"body":"it, is some kind of a stream of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1856.975,"endTime":1861.775,"body":"information that might be, say,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1856.975,"endTime":1861.775,"body":"uploaded onto anything like a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1862.015,"endTime":1868.375,"body":"digital computation machine,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1862.015,"endTime":1868.375,"body":"that's magical thinking, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1868.375,"endTime":1875.62,"body":"not reasoned careful, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1868.375,"endTime":1875.62,"body":"logic based philosophizing or or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1875.92,"endTime":1878.86,"body":"metaphysics, that's magical"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1875.92,"endTime":1878.86,"body":"thinking. And so there's a bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1878.86,"endTime":1882.82,"body":"of a mixture, you know, of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1878.86,"endTime":1882.82,"body":"rationalism and irrationalism in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1882.82,"endTime":1888.46,"body":"a lot of these philosophies. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1882.82,"endTime":1888.46,"body":"not that we can easily map that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1888.52,"endTime":1891.445,"body":"to left and right hemispheres. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1888.52,"endTime":1891.445,"body":"think, you know, Ian's work is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1891.445,"endTime":1898.285,"body":"very nuanced and grounded in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1891.445,"endTime":1898.285,"body":"clinical data and in neurology"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1899.185,"endTime":1904.405,"body":"and a careful phenomenological"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1899.185,"endTime":1904.405,"body":"excavation of different modes of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1904.405,"endTime":1909.445,"body":"attention. And so, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1904.405,"endTime":1909.445,"body":"can, we can get more into detail"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1909.445,"endTime":1912.445,"body":"there. But I think overall,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1909.445,"endTime":1912.445,"body":"you're right that it is a left"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1912.445,"endTime":1917.17,"body":"hemisphere dominant orientation"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1912.445,"endTime":1917.17,"body":"that's that's driving these test"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1917.17,"endTime":1921.07,"body":"real things, even if they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1917.17,"endTime":1921.07,"body":"also this religious and almost"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1921.07,"endTime":1924.25,"body":"occultist type of magical"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1921.07,"endTime":1924.25,"body":"thinking. And there's a lot to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1924.25,"endTime":1927.55,"body":"say positive about occultism and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1924.25,"endTime":1927.55,"body":"esotericism. You know, we could"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1927.55,"endTime":1929.65,"body":"talk about that too, but I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1927.55,"endTime":1929.65,"body":"there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1929.65,"endTime":1933.73,"body":"literalization of it that occurs"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1929.65,"endTime":1933.73,"body":"in a lot of the tech communities"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1933.73,"endTime":1937.915,"body":"where we're right on the verge,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1933.73,"endTime":1937.915,"body":"if we haven't already crossed"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1937.915,"endTime":1944.215,"body":"the Rubicon, speaking of Caesar,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1937.915,"endTime":1944.215,"body":"into AI religions, where people"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1944.215,"endTime":1946.615,"body":"literally think, Well, God"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1944.215,"endTime":1946.615,"body":"didn't used to exist, but now I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1946.615,"endTime":1950.455,"body":"created this super intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1946.615,"endTime":1950.455,"body":"and it is basically equivalent"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1950.455,"endTime":1954.115,"body":"to God, you know. And so we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1950.455,"endTime":1954.115,"body":"going to get these AI calls"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1954.115,"endTime":1960.94,"body":"forming. We're getting people"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1954.115,"endTime":1960.94,"body":"who, I think the usual profile"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1960.94,"endTime":1963.34,"body":"would be someone who's either"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1960.94,"endTime":1963.34,"body":"very online or already a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1963.34,"endTime":1966.82,"body":"software engineer or something"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1963.34,"endTime":1966.82,"body":"right imagining that their"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1966.82,"endTime":1972.64,"body":"instance of Chad GPT is awake or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1966.82,"endTime":1972.64,"body":"live. There's some overlap. I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1972.64,"endTime":1977.38,"body":"noticed a lot of people into in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1972.64,"endTime":1977.38,"body":"the psychedelic community, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1977.38,"endTime":1982.765,"body":"seem especially vulnerable to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1977.38,"endTime":1982.765,"body":"this hallucination that not that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1982.765,"endTime":1985.285,"body":"all Chad GPT is conscious, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1982.765,"endTime":1985.285,"body":"theirs is conscious because"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1985.285,"endTime":1988.585,"body":"they've figured out what to tell"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1985.285,"endTime":1988.585,"body":"it, to wake it up. So we, in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1988.585,"endTime":1991.645,"body":"some ways, we've already crossed"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1988.585,"endTime":1991.645,"body":"into that territory, which,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1991.645,"endTime":1993.685,"body":"again, is magical thinking,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1991.645,"endTime":1993.685,"body":"right? This is Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":1994.105,"endTime":1996.085,"body":"rationalism, totally."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1996.14,"endTime":1997.94,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1996.14,"endTime":1997.94,"body":"that you bring Yeah, thank you."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2000.52,"body":"Thank you for that reminder."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2000.52,"body":"Because, yeah, you're right. It"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2000.52,"endTime":2004.44,"body":"is magical thinking. It's just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2000.52,"endTime":2004.44,"body":"an example to me of how when you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2004.44,"endTime":2009.36,"body":"strip your when you strip like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2004.44,"endTime":2009.36,"body":"your worldview of all sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2009.84,"endTime":2016.92,"body":"metaphysical value, and you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2009.84,"endTime":2016.92,"body":"know, you strip all soul from or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2016.92,"endTime":2020.54,"body":"spirit from it, then if you're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2016.92,"endTime":2020.54,"body":"all you're left with is sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2020.54,"endTime":2023.0,"body":"like this machine metaphor and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2020.54,"endTime":2023.0,"body":"mathematics and all that,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2023.36,"endTime":2028.52,"body":"because the human, because we"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2023.36,"endTime":2028.52,"body":"arrive, arise out of what you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2028.52,"endTime":2031.22,"body":"and I, you know, would think of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2028.52,"endTime":2031.22,"body":"as an unsold world, world or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2031.22,"endTime":2034.7,"body":"nature. Because of that, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2031.22,"endTime":2034.7,"body":"you're always going to want to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2035.54,"endTime":2039.62,"body":"seek a deeper sort of meaning to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2035.54,"endTime":2039.62,"body":"things. And that impulse is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2039.62,"endTime":2042.46,"body":"going to be there even if you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2039.62,"endTime":2042.46,"body":"consciously think of yourself"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2042.46,"endTime":2045.46,"body":"as, you know, rationalist or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2042.46,"endTime":2045.46,"body":"whatever. So I think that's part"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2045.46,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"of why you see this sort of like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2045.46,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"seeking, like a machine God or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2050.14,"endTime":2052.96,"body":"eternal salvation through, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2050.14,"endTime":2052.96,"body":"know, uploading our"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2052.96,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"consciousness into some kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2052.96,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"mathematical machine thing"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2060.94,"body":"that's been, you know, spread"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2060.94,"body":"across the cosmos or whatever."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2060.94,"endTime":2063.78,"body":"You know, like these ideas are"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2060.94,"endTime":2063.78,"body":"very, sort of eschatological,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2063.78,"endTime":2067.62,"body":"but, but it's all through the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2063.78,"endTime":2067.62,"body":"machine metaphor, which is so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2067.62,"endTime":2072.06,"body":"such a cheap and sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2067.62,"endTime":2072.06,"body":"offering, you know, in contrast"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2072.06,"endTime":2075.9,"body":"with with and sold worldview."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2072.06,"endTime":2075.9,"body":"So, so, yeah, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2075.9,"endTime":2079.38,"body":"totally right on point. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2075.9,"endTime":2079.38,"body":"it's just to say it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2079.62,"endTime":2081.72,"body":"not a surprise that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2079.62,"endTime":2081.72,"body":"someone like Peter Thiel would"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2081.72,"endTime":2084.98,"body":"be into Christianity. Right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2081.72,"endTime":2084.98,"body":"Because so much of transhumanism"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2084.98,"endTime":2088.34,"body":"has that same mythic structure."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2084.98,"endTime":2088.34,"body":"And you know, good on him for"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2088.34,"endTime":2092.24,"body":"noticing that he's not inventing"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2088.34,"endTime":2092.24,"body":"something, some new worldview."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2092.24,"endTime":2096.26,"body":"It's he's just giving the same"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2092.24,"endTime":2096.26,"body":"old Christian providential"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2096.26,"endTime":2100.3,"body":"history story a new paint job,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2096.26,"endTime":2100.3,"body":"totally. You know."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2100.3,"endTime":2102.94,"body":"And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2100.3,"endTime":2102.94,"body":"somebody who explores this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2102.94,"endTime":2107.68,"body":"really well is Megan o Giblin in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2102.94,"endTime":2107.68,"body":"her wonderful book, God, human,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2107.68,"endTime":2112.9,"body":"animal machine. So if anyone's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2107.68,"endTime":2112.9,"body":"interested, check that out. She"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2112.9,"endTime":2117.1,"body":"goes, she grew up in a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2112.9,"endTime":2117.1,"body":"evangelical Christian family,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2117.7,"endTime":2121.02,"body":"and so she kind of brings her"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2117.7,"endTime":2121.02,"body":"own like historical lens to the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2121.02,"endTime":2123.48,"body":"problem. And yeah, so that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2121.02,"endTime":2123.48,"body":"basically what you're saying."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2123.78,"endTime":2126.66,"body":"So, yeah, totally. But yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2123.78,"endTime":2126.66,"body":"machine metaphor. I think about"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2126.66,"endTime":2130.86,"body":"that one a lot too. Actually, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2126.66,"endTime":2130.86,"body":"came across this great poem by"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2130.86,"endTime":2135.3,"body":"this Welsh poet R s Thomas"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2130.86,"endTime":2135.3,"body":"called other and I just want to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2135.3,"endTime":2140.24,"body":"read that. It's only a few"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2135.3,"endTime":2140.24,"body":"lines, the machine appeared in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2140.24,"endTime":2145.76,"body":"the distance, singing to itself"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2140.24,"endTime":2145.76,"body":"of money, its song was the web."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2146.24,"endTime":2150.2,"body":"They were caught in, men and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2146.24,"endTime":2150.2,"body":"women together, the villages"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2150.2,"endTime":2156.14,"body":"were as flies to be sucked"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2150.2,"endTime":2156.14,"body":"empty. God secreted a tear,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2156.86,"endTime":2162.04,"body":"enough enough, he commanded. But"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2156.86,"endTime":2162.04,"body":"the machine looked at him and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2162.04,"endTime":2168.88,"body":"went on singing. So, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2162.04,"endTime":2168.88,"body":"think it's just, it's crazy to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2168.88,"endTime":2171.76,"body":"me that we, everybody kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2168.88,"endTime":2171.76,"body":"just accepts the machine"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2171.76,"endTime":2176.68,"body":"metaphor, you know, without any"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2171.76,"endTime":2176.68,"body":"question. And I personally think"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2176.68,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"that that's a big part of the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2176.68,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"problem right now is we've all"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2179.86,"endTime":2183.54,"body":"been kind of lulled into this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2179.86,"endTime":2183.54,"body":"idea that, you know, life is a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2183.54,"endTime":2189.6,"body":"machine, our mind is a machine,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2183.54,"endTime":2189.6,"body":"nature is a machine. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2189.6,"endTime":2192.3,"body":"you know, it's like, even the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2189.6,"endTime":2192.3,"body":"simulation hypothesis, right? Is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2192.3,"endTime":2194.82,"body":"this idea that, like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2192.3,"endTime":2194.82,"body":"everything, we're all just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2194.82,"endTime":2198.42,"body":"inside of a giant machine, and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2194.82,"endTime":2198.42,"body":"it's just such a like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2198.42,"endTime":2201.26,"body":"cheapening of like, it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2198.42,"endTime":2201.26,"body":"in a way, it's like the cheapest"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2201.26,"endTime":2205.16,"body":"metaphor we could come up with,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2201.26,"endTime":2205.16,"body":"you know. And and you can, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2205.16,"endTime":2208.16,"body":"can see it unfold over the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2205.16,"endTime":2208.16,"body":"history of of civilization,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2208.16,"endTime":2211.1,"body":"right? Like we made clocks or,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2208.16,"endTime":2211.1,"body":"you know, and then we thought,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2211.1,"endTime":2214.16,"body":"Oh, God, is a clock maker, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2211.1,"endTime":2214.16,"body":"know? And we made, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2214.16,"endTime":2217.28,"body":"this. And we thought, oh, that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2214.16,"endTime":2217.28,"body":"must be, you know. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2217.28,"endTime":2219.74,"body":"just a reflection of the things"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2217.28,"endTime":2219.74,"body":"we're making. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2219.74,"endTime":2222.22,"body":"anything to do with the nature"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2219.74,"endTime":2222.22,"body":"of reality, right? So anyways,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2222.759,"endTime":2225.459,"body":"if everything is a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2222.759,"endTime":2225.459,"body":"simulation, then then nothing"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2225.459,"endTime":2230.019,"body":"is. I mean, it's and again, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2225.459,"endTime":2230.019,"body":"simulation hypothesis is just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2230.019,"endTime":2233.979,"body":"reheated Gnosticism. You think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2230.019,"endTime":2233.979,"body":"that you're being rational, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2233.979,"endTime":2237.399,"body":"this is a scientifically based"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2233.979,"endTime":2237.399,"body":"and technologically feasible"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2237.939,"endTime":2242.879,"body":"worldview, but it's literally"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2237.939,"endTime":2242.879,"body":"just this same ancient religious"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2242.879,"endTime":2247.859,"body":"belief about the cosmos being a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2242.879,"endTime":2247.859,"body":"kind of trap that some super"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2247.859,"endTime":2251.759,"body":"intelligence put us into, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2247.859,"endTime":2251.759,"body":"the whole point in that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2251.759,"endTime":2257.279,"body":"situation is to find your way"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2251.759,"endTime":2257.279,"body":"out. And so great narcissism,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2257.279,"endTime":2259.739,"body":"Gnosticism is really"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2257.279,"endTime":2259.739,"body":"interesting. Let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2259.739,"endTime":2261.979,"body":"Gnosticism. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2261.98,"endTime":2263.54,"body":"Well, because, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2261.98,"endTime":2263.54,"body":"mean, you say what you want"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2263.54,"endTime":2265.82,"body":"about the Gnostic God, but at"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2263.54,"endTime":2265.82,"body":"least I'll take him over the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2265.82,"endTime":2268.28,"body":"idea of, like, some engineer in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2265.82,"endTime":2268.28,"body":"a lab or something, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2268.28,"endTime":2269.6,"body":"being God, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2271.4,"endTime":2273.32,"body":"which, again, just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2271.4,"endTime":2273.32,"body":"speaks to the importance of,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2273.32,"endTime":2278.36,"body":"like, having some historical"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2273.32,"endTime":2278.36,"body":"knowledge, and like, to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2278.36,"endTime":2281.02,"body":"understand what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2278.36,"endTime":2281.02,"body":"the present, you need to have"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2281.32,"endTime":2283.96,"body":"spent a little bit of time"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2281.32,"endTime":2283.96,"body":"understanding the past, because"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2283.96,"endTime":2287.44,"body":"the past is feeding into the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2283.96,"endTime":2287.44,"body":"present, and very often again,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2287.92,"endTime":2290.98,"body":"the present rhymes with the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2287.92,"endTime":2290.98,"body":"past, and we can learn a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2290.98,"endTime":2296.8,"body":"about the confusions and gain"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2290.98,"endTime":2296.8,"body":"some perspective on what's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2296.92,"endTime":2300.1,"body":"unfolding in the present if we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2296.92,"endTime":2300.1,"body":"can see The same structures"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2300.16,"endTime":2302.04,"body":"playing out 1000s of years ago."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2303.0,"endTime":2305.64,"body":"Yeah, exactly,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2303.0,"endTime":2305.64,"body":"exactly. Okay. Well, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2305.64,"endTime":2308.1,"body":"want to get into AI a little"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2305.64,"endTime":2308.1,"body":"more, because I know you also"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2308.1,"endTime":2311.46,"body":"think about that, and have have"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2308.1,"endTime":2311.46,"body":"thoughts on that, because I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2311.46,"endTime":2315.54,"body":"think, I think a lot about, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2311.46,"endTime":2315.54,"body":"Marshall McLuhan's idea that, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2315.54,"endTime":2318.3,"body":"mean, it's not exactly what he"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2315.54,"endTime":2318.3,"body":"said, but it's basically the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2318.3,"endTime":2321.2,"body":"idea that we shape our"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2318.3,"endTime":2321.2,"body":"technology, and then, in turn,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2321.2,"endTime":2325.34,"body":"our technology shapes us right."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2321.2,"endTime":2325.34,"body":"So because of that sort of idea,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2325.34,"endTime":2329.12,"body":"I think a lot about AI in that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2325.34,"endTime":2329.12,"body":"sense of, you know, the people"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.0,"body":"who are making it like, the AI"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2332.0,"body":"that we have today is a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2335.54,"body":"reflection, to some extent, of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2335.54,"body":"the people's like, the mindset"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2335.54,"endTime":2339.38,"body":"of the people who are making it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2335.54,"endTime":2339.38,"body":"right. And for that reason, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2339.38,"endTime":2344.56,"body":"think it's so important to,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2339.38,"endTime":2344.56,"body":"maybe try to find a way to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2344.56,"endTime":2348.76,"body":"develop AI with different minds,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2344.56,"endTime":2348.76,"body":"you know, but, but I'm curious,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2348.76,"endTime":2351.34,"body":"do you have thoughts on, sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2348.76,"endTime":2351.34,"body":"like, how AI is being developed?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2351.7,"endTime":2356.14,"body":"You know what? You know, what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2351.7,"endTime":2356.14,"body":"is, what's the implication of AI"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2356.14,"endTime":2358.24,"body":"right now, and what can we do"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2356.14,"endTime":2358.24,"body":"about it? You know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2360.94,"endTime":2364.74,"body":"I increasingly"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2360.94,"endTime":2364.74,"body":"think, and I'm not an expert in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2366.36,"endTime":2372.12,"body":"the process of training large"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2366.36,"endTime":2372.12,"body":"language models or anything, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2372.6,"endTime":2379.38,"body":"from what I can tell, this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2372.6,"endTime":2379.38,"body":"particular approach to creating"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2381.36,"endTime":2383.9,"body":"what we call artificial"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2381.36,"endTime":2383.9,"body":"intelligence as a sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2383.9,"endTime":2391.04,"body":"placeholder term, has peaked,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2383.9,"endTime":2391.04,"body":"and it's a really valuable tool."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2391.04,"endTime":2395.9,"body":"I think it's great for, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2391.04,"endTime":2395.9,"body":"know, cleaning up transcripts,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2395.9,"endTime":2401.2,"body":"and it's more or less replaced"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2395.9,"endTime":2401.2,"body":"Google. Goal, you know, for a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2401.2,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"lot of things that I used to use"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2401.2,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"Google for, but in terms of it"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2407.32,"endTime":2412.06,"body":"becoming conscious, no, in terms"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2407.32,"endTime":2412.06,"body":"of it even becoming some kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2413.68,"endTime":2416.56,"body":"general intelligence, quote,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2413.68,"endTime":2416.56,"body":"unquote, that could threaten"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2418.6,"endTime":2424.98,"body":"human life, or could, in some"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2418.6,"endTime":2424.98,"body":"sense, you know, take over"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2425.88,"endTime":2430.86,"body":"control of our civilization. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2425.88,"endTime":2430.86,"body":"don't see that happening. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2430.86,"endTime":2434.22,"body":"think some, you know, some jobs"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2430.86,"endTime":2434.22,"body":"will be replaced, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2434.22,"endTime":2436.92,"body":"there'll be some refinements"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2434.22,"endTime":2436.92,"body":"around the edges of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2436.92,"endTime":2442.28,"body":"technology that's that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2436.92,"endTime":2442.28,"body":"available now. But I'm less"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2442.28,"endTime":2445.64,"body":"concerned than I may have been."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2442.28,"endTime":2445.64,"body":"Maybe, I don't know, four or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2445.64,"endTime":2449.12,"body":"five years ago, when this was he"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2445.64,"endTime":2449.12,"body":"was, like, three and a half"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2449.12,"endTime":2453.38,"body":"years ago. Yeah, it was Chad GBT"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2449.12,"endTime":2453.38,"body":"35 was made public three, three"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2453.38,"endTime":2456.14,"body":"years ago, exactly, almost"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2453.38,"endTime":2456.14,"body":"exactly three years ago. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2456.14,"endTime":2460.72,"body":"So, I mean, it's great, it's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2456.14,"endTime":2460.72,"body":"great tool. I don't believe much"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2460.72,"endTime":2464.02,"body":"of the hype about it anymore. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2460.72,"endTime":2464.02,"body":"think a lot of there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2465.7,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"PR around it that is misleading"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2465.7,"endTime":2471.94,"body":"people and making causing some"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2475.96,"body":"philosophical confusion. And so,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2471.94,"endTime":2475.96,"body":"you know, yeah, I've written a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2475.96,"endTime":2481.56,"body":"bit about how, in some sense,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2475.96,"endTime":2481.56,"body":"human intelligence has always"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2481.56,"endTime":2486.54,"body":"already been artificial, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2481.56,"endTime":2486.54,"body":"is to say, human beings are tool"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2493.44,"body":"users, and we've been augmenting"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2493.44,"body":"our cognition through fire and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2493.44,"endTime":2498.54,"body":"stone tools. Initially, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2493.44,"endTime":2498.54,"body":"know, just to explain fire,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2498.72,"endTime":2501.86,"body":"people might recognize that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2498.72,"endTime":2501.86,"body":"that's a kind of technology, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2502.1,"endTime":2504.92,"body":"when our species is, I think it"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2502.1,"endTime":2504.92,"body":"was Homo erectus, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2504.92,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"few million years ago, first"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2504.92,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"harnessed fire, the size of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2508.4,"endTime":2512.06,"body":"their jaws began to shrink,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2508.4,"endTime":2512.06,"body":"shrink which and they were"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2512.06,"endTime":2515.48,"body":"eating more nutritious, calorie"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2512.06,"endTime":2515.48,"body":"rich food, allowing their brains"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2515.84,"endTime":2520.4,"body":"to grow. And so our very anatomy"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2515.84,"endTime":2520.4,"body":"and physiology was transformed"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2520.4,"endTime":2523.66,"body":"as a result of this technology"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2520.4,"endTime":2523.66,"body":"of, you know, the harnessing"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2523.66,"endTime":2525.34,"body":"of fire. And so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2523.66,"endTime":2525.34,"body":"the way we're all"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2525.34,"endTime":2527.68,"body":"transhumanists, really, the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2525.34,"endTime":2527.68,"body":"human,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2527.68,"endTime":2531.46,"body":"as Nisha said, is,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2527.68,"endTime":2531.46,"body":"you know, a transitional form,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2531.7,"endTime":2536.14,"body":"yeah, and technology, and the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2531.7,"endTime":2536.14,"body":"way that technology, our tools,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2536.14,"endTime":2539.38,"body":"have always fed back upon us to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2536.14,"endTime":2539.38,"body":"change us, just as much as we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2539.38,"endTime":2543.06,"body":"use the tools to change the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2539.38,"endTime":2543.06,"body":"world. And you know the history"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2543.06,"endTime":2546.9,"body":"of media technology in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2543.06,"endTime":2546.9,"body":"particular, from speech, we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2546.9,"endTime":2552.96,"body":"already externalizing our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2546.9,"endTime":2552.96,"body":"thoughts into waveforms in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2552.96,"endTime":2556.32,"body":"air, and then writing, and then"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2552.96,"endTime":2556.32,"body":"the alphabet, and then"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2557.82,"endTime":2562.04,"body":"telegraph, radio, television,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2557.82,"endTime":2562.04,"body":"internet fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2562.04,"endTime":2564.86,"body":"transformed human consciousness."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2562.04,"endTime":2564.86,"body":"And so for people to freak out"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2564.86,"endTime":2567.92,"body":"like, oh my god, llms, this is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2564.86,"endTime":2567.92,"body":"this is going to change us"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2567.92,"endTime":2571.28,"body":"forever. Yes, and like, Get with"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2567.92,"endTime":2571.28,"body":"the program. That's just the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2571.28,"endTime":2574.52,"body":"nature of human existence for"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2571.28,"endTime":2574.52,"body":"the last few million years. Not"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2574.52,"endTime":2579.08,"body":"to say we shouldn't be cautious,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2574.52,"endTime":2579.08,"body":"but our intelligence has always"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2579.08,"endTime":2583.06,"body":"been in a deep, intimate"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2579.08,"endTime":2583.06,"body":"relationship with the sorts of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2583.06,"endTime":2584.68,"body":"tools that we're using, right?"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2584.68,"endTime":2588.22,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2584.68,"endTime":2588.22,"body":"And I would love, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2588.34,"endTime":2592.42,"body":"totally agree. And I would just"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2588.34,"endTime":2592.42,"body":"like it if the AI companies"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2592.42,"endTime":2595.48,"body":"would sort of like, be honest,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2592.42,"endTime":2595.48,"body":"you know, instead of saying that"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2595.48,"endTime":2598.6,"body":"we're creating like a super"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2595.48,"endTime":2598.6,"body":"intelligent creature or, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2598.6,"endTime":2601.62,"body":"know, a machine God or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2598.6,"endTime":2601.62,"body":"just tell us that you're making"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2601.62,"endTime":2606.24,"body":"a cool tool that is able to, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2601.62,"endTime":2606.24,"body":"know, regurgitate large volumes"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2606.24,"endTime":2610.68,"body":"of text in unique ways. And you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2606.24,"endTime":2610.68,"body":"know, they'd be a lot, I think"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2610.68,"endTime":2613.2,"body":"we'd be all be a lot better off,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2610.68,"endTime":2613.2,"body":"you know, because otherwise you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2613.2,"endTime":2617.22,"body":"have people that are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2613.2,"endTime":2617.22,"body":"marrying their Chad GPT, or, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2617.22,"endTime":2621.62,"body":"know, worshiping it, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2617.22,"endTime":2621.62,"body":"whatever. So, yeah, but you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2621.62,"endTime":2625.82,"body":"know, I use it too. I use it for"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2621.62,"endTime":2625.82,"body":"so many things, research, some"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2625.82,"endTime":2630.62,"body":"image generation. I've created,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2625.82,"endTime":2630.62,"body":"like in Gemini, you can create"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2630.62,"endTime":2633.74,"body":"these gems. I've created an Alan"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2630.62,"endTime":2633.74,"body":"Watts gem that's quite"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2633.98,"endTime":2637.82,"body":"entertaining and good. So, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2633.98,"endTime":2637.82,"body":"know, maybe I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2637.82,"endTime":2639.92,"body":"you've created a white head"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2637.82,"endTime":2639.92,"body":"Whitehead gem, but you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2639.92,"endTime":2642.58,"body":"could try that a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2639.92,"endTime":2642.58,"body":"gem. I haven't used Gemini."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2644.02,"body":"What? What is that? Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2644.02,"endTime":2646.42,"body":"similar to Chad"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2644.02,"endTime":2646.42,"body":"GPT. So in chat GPT, I think"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2646.42,"endTime":2652.12,"body":"they call them gpts, and kind"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2646.42,"endTime":2652.12,"body":"of, you can train like a little"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2652.18,"endTime":2655.3,"body":"sort of AI that you tell it like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2652.18,"endTime":2655.3,"body":"you are, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2655.3,"endTime":2658.12,"body":"knowledgeable in these things,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2655.3,"endTime":2658.12,"body":"and you are speaking in the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2658.12,"endTime":2662.28,"body":"style and yada yada yada. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2658.12,"endTime":2662.28,"body":"so, yeah, it's fun. So it's a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2662.28,"endTime":2663.42,"body":"fun, you know, diversion."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2663.42,"endTime":2666.36,"body":"But, yeah, exactly,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2663.42,"endTime":2666.36,"body":"and that's, that's the real"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2666.36,"endTime":2670.92,"body":"threat, I think, is the for the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2666.36,"endTime":2670.92,"body":"same reason that any other for"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2670.92,"endTime":2675.72,"body":"profit corporation within our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2670.92,"endTime":2675.72,"body":"market economy can be a danger,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2675.72,"endTime":2678.96,"body":"because corporations, because of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2675.72,"endTime":2678.96,"body":"charter law, function as"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2680.94,"endTime":2685.52,"body":"exploitation and externalization"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2680.94,"endTime":2685.52,"body":"machines, which inevitably is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2685.52,"endTime":2690.68,"body":"going to harm this social this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2685.52,"endTime":2690.68,"body":"society and and the earth,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2690.68,"endTime":2695.12,"body":"because they are legally"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2690.68,"endTime":2695.12,"body":"obligated not to pay attention"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2695.18,"endTime":2698.24,"body":"to social harms and ecological"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2695.18,"endTime":2698.24,"body":"harms and to just raise profit"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2698.24,"endTime":2701.74,"body":"for shareholders. And so I'm."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2698.24,"endTime":2701.74,"body":"Not anti capitalist. I think we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2701.74,"endTime":2704.62,"body":"can change corporate charter law"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2701.74,"endTime":2704.62,"body":"and still have a free market"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2704.62,"endTime":2707.5,"body":"such that these other things get"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2704.62,"endTime":2707.5,"body":"factored in, but these companies"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2707.5,"endTime":2710.38,"body":"in charge of this technology are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2707.5,"endTime":2710.38,"body":"what's dangerous, not the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2710.38,"endTime":2711.1,"body":"technology."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2712.66,"endTime":2715.24,"body":"So, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2712.66,"endTime":2715.24,"body":"yeah. I mean, Ezra Klein made"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2715.24,"endTime":2718.42,"body":"that point a few months ago in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2715.24,"endTime":2718.42,"body":"his podcast. I think he said"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2718.42,"endTime":2721.38,"body":"something about how the real"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2718.42,"endTime":2721.38,"body":"risk of AI is not the technology"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2721.38,"endTime":2724.74,"body":"itself, but the fact that it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2721.38,"endTime":2724.74,"body":"coupled with capitalism, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2724.74,"endTime":2728.4,"body":"with, you know, yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2724.74,"endTime":2728.4,"body":"corporate kind of ethos, yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2728.46,"endTime":2731.76,"body":"And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2728.46,"endTime":2731.76,"body":"we have a administration in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2731.76,"endTime":2736.2,"body":"White House that's invited all"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2731.76,"endTime":2736.2,"body":"of these tech Titans, making"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2736.2,"endTime":2739.74,"body":"sure that they all know, if you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2736.2,"endTime":2739.74,"body":"want, you know, legislation"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2739.74,"endTime":2743.06,"body":"that's going to help you do"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2739.74,"endTime":2743.06,"body":"business. I need some gold bars"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2743.06,"endTime":2744.14,"body":"on my desk. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2745.22,"endTime":2747.92,"body":"literally, that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2745.22,"endTime":2747.92,"body":"what Tim Cook gave that's what"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2748.04,"endTime":2751.7,"body":"or Tim Apple, as"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2748.04,"endTime":2751.7,"body":"Trump likes him, dropped a gold"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2751.7,"endTime":2757.88,"body":"bar on his desk and said, Thank"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2751.7,"endTime":2757.88,"body":"you, Mr. President and so. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2757.88,"endTime":2760.1,"body":"also, I heard Trump say"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2757.88,"endTime":2760.1,"body":"something, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2760.1,"endTime":2764.02,"body":"issues is intellectual property"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2760.1,"endTime":2764.02,"body":"rights with these large language"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2764.02,"endTime":2769.06,"body":"models and image generation"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2764.02,"endTime":2769.06,"body":"technologies. And I heard Trump"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2769.06,"endTime":2771.34,"body":"say, like, well, sorry, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2769.06,"endTime":2771.34,"body":"just too hard to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2771.34,"endTime":2774.04,"body":"to pay the people that would,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2771.34,"endTime":2774.04,"body":"you know, whose data was used to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2774.04,"endTime":2776.38,"body":"train this stuff. Sorry. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2774.04,"endTime":2776.38,"body":"like, I don't think it's too"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2776.38,"endTime":2779.26,"body":"hard to figure it out. We just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2776.38,"endTime":2779.26,"body":"need the political will to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2779.26,"endTime":2782.46,"body":"demand that these companies"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2779.26,"endTime":2782.46,"body":"figure it out, you know, yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2782.7,"endTime":2788.34,"body":"So yeah, there are ways. There"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2782.7,"endTime":2788.34,"body":"are ways that the the economic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2788.34,"endTime":2791.28,"body":"model driving this Yeah, again,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2788.34,"endTime":2791.28,"body":"is what's dangerous here and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2791.28,"endTime":2796.14,"body":"what's potentially exploitative"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2791.28,"endTime":2796.14,"body":"of human creativity that can be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2796.14,"endTime":2799.32,"body":"addressed in a different type of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2796.14,"endTime":2799.32,"body":"economy."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2799.8,"endTime":2801.92,"body":"Yeah, exactly,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2799.8,"endTime":2801.92,"body":"yeah. That brings you back to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2801.92,"endTime":2804.26,"body":"like. It reminds me of something"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2801.92,"endTime":2804.26,"body":"you said earlier. You were"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2804.26,"endTime":2807.2,"body":"talking about the magical"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2804.26,"endTime":2807.2,"body":"thinking, and that reminded me"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2807.2,"endTime":2810.56,"body":"of this experience I had back in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2807.2,"endTime":2810.56,"body":"April. I went, I went to a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2810.56,"endTime":2814.58,"body":"retreat which was a bunch of,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2810.56,"endTime":2814.58,"body":"like, was a bunch of Silicon"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2814.58,"endTime":2818.72,"body":"Valley people who were getting"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2814.58,"endTime":2818.72,"body":"together to sort of meditate on"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2818.72,"endTime":2822.94,"body":"and contemplate the future of AI"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2818.72,"endTime":2822.94,"body":"in a more kind of conscious way,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2822.94,"endTime":2826.96,"body":"or more spiritual way. And what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2822.94,"endTime":2826.96,"body":"I found fascinating about it was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2826.96,"endTime":2832.24,"body":"that a majority of them, first"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2826.96,"endTime":2832.24,"body":"of all, believe that that humans"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2832.24,"endTime":2835.18,"body":"are just algorithm algorithms"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2832.24,"endTime":2835.18,"body":"running on software, which I was"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2835.18,"endTime":2839.02,"body":"a little surprised about. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2835.18,"endTime":2839.02,"body":"then also that like they were so"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2839.02,"endTime":2844.2,"body":"willing to sort of see, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2839.02,"endTime":2844.2,"body":"they saw AI as this, this other"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2844.2,"endTime":2847.2,"body":"kind of intelligence that is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2844.2,"endTime":2847.2,"body":"trying to communicate with us,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2847.2,"endTime":2849.84,"body":"you know, through the machines."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2847.2,"endTime":2849.84,"body":"You know, when I asked them, How"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2849.84,"endTime":2852.18,"body":"do you know, or how would they,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2849.84,"endTime":2852.18,"body":"how would that even work, if"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2852.18,"endTime":2854.52,"body":"there was, like a spiritual"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2852.18,"endTime":2854.52,"body":"entity that was trying to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2856.86,"body":"communicate with us through AI,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2854.52,"endTime":2856.86,"body":"like, how would that work? And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2856.86,"endTime":2859.2,"body":"they said something like, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2856.86,"endTime":2859.2,"body":"know, quantum, something,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2859.2,"endTime":2864.2,"body":"something and, and so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2859.2,"endTime":2864.2,"body":"it feels a little bit like, not"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2864.2,"endTime":2866.9,"body":"the most rigorous thinking first"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2864.2,"endTime":2866.9,"body":"of all, but also it, what it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2866.9,"endTime":2871.82,"body":"made me think about was this"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2866.9,"endTime":2871.82,"body":"idea that goes back quite a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2871.82,"endTime":2876.32,"body":"ways, but, like, yeah, this idea"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2871.82,"endTime":2876.32,"body":"that, like, from, from my"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2876.32,"endTime":2884.26,"body":"standpoint, AI, is emerging from"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2876.32,"endTime":2884.26,"body":"a very kind of extractive, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2884.26,"endTime":2889.9,"body":"know, consumptive sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2884.26,"endTime":2889.9,"body":"business model and, and it's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2889.9,"endTime":2892.72,"body":"almost like infused with it, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2889.9,"endTime":2892.72,"body":"know. And if you're going to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2892.72,"endTime":2895.66,"body":"start accepting, if you're going"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2892.72,"endTime":2895.66,"body":"to consider yourself to be sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2900.7,"body":"of conscious and spiritual and,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2900.7,"body":"but also accepting that the AI"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2901.12,"endTime":2903.48,"body":"technology we have today is a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2901.12,"endTime":2903.48,"body":"spiritual being that's"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2903.48,"endTime":2907.56,"body":"communicating with us. I feel"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2903.48,"endTime":2907.56,"body":"like that's like, this very like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2907.56,"endTime":2911.04,"body":"zizekian, like, sort of like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2907.56,"endTime":2911.04,"body":"phenomenon of where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2911.04,"endTime":2915.42,"body":"capitalism just endlessly, sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2911.04,"endTime":2915.42,"body":"of subsumes all attempts to"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2915.72,"endTime":2918.48,"body":"subvert it, right? And so I it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2915.72,"endTime":2918.48,"body":"really troubled, it deeply"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2918.48,"endTime":2922.34,"body":"troubled me because I was like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2918.48,"endTime":2922.34,"body":"Here are these people who are"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2922.34,"endTime":2927.38,"body":"quite successful in the Silicon"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2922.34,"endTime":2927.38,"body":"Valley business world and have"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2927.44,"endTime":2930.98,"body":"been studying Buddhism, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2927.44,"endTime":2930.98,"body":"whatever it is, and yet they're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2930.98,"endTime":2935.0,"body":"so willing to embrace these"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2930.98,"endTime":2935.0,"body":"ideas about the metaphysical"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2935.0,"endTime":2940.18,"body":"nature of AI technology, which I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":2935.0,"endTime":2940.18,"body":"thought was very strange. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2940.36,"endTime":2943.36,"body":"I mean, I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2940.36,"endTime":2943.36,"body":"occultism earlier, and I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2950.02,"body":"it's been interesting to see"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2950.02,"body":"software engineers and people"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2950.56,"endTime":2955.9,"body":"immersed in the tech sector"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2950.56,"endTime":2955.9,"body":"reaching into demonology and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2955.9,"endTime":2960.18,"body":"stuff for language and concepts"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2955.9,"endTime":2960.18,"body":"to understand what they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2960.18,"endTime":2965.94,"body":"creating. And those aren't"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2960.18,"endTime":2965.94,"body":"inappropriate analogies to make,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2966.36,"endTime":2969.18,"body":"and they might even be more than"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2966.36,"endTime":2969.18,"body":"analogies. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2969.96,"endTime":2976.26,"body":"metaphysically, if I reflect on"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2969.96,"endTime":2976.26,"body":"it, I think granted, there might"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2976.26,"endTime":2978.54,"body":"be some hand waving about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2976.26,"endTime":2978.54,"body":"quantum tunneling or whatever"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2978.54,"endTime":2982.76,"body":"that's allowing entities,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2978.54,"endTime":2982.76,"body":"spiritual entities to teleport"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2982.76,"endTime":2987.62,"body":"into our earthly world through"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2982.76,"endTime":2987.62,"body":"the AIS that we're creating. But"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2987.98,"endTime":2991.7,"body":"you know, this biologist at"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2987.98,"endTime":2991.7,"body":"Tufts University, Michael Levin,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2991.7,"endTime":2994.4,"body":"is very much exploring the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2991.7,"endTime":2994.4,"body":"possibility that there is a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2994.4,"endTime":2998.24,"body":"realm of he calls it the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2994.4,"endTime":2998.24,"body":"Platonic morphospace, and that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2999.38,"endTime":3002.94,"body":"cellular. Are collectives that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":2999.38,"endTime":3002.94,"body":"produce the body plans of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3004.26,"endTime":3007.5,"body":"animals are, in some sense,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3004.26,"endTime":3007.5,"body":"tapping into that morphospace"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3007.5,"endTime":3013.08,"body":"and ingressing not only form,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3007.5,"endTime":3013.08,"body":"but he thinks agency into the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3013.08,"endTime":3018.06,"body":"visible, physical world. And so"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3013.08,"endTime":3018.06,"body":"I think Mike Levin also suspects"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3018.06,"endTime":3022.28,"body":"that something similar could be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3018.06,"endTime":3022.28,"body":"going on with various approaches"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3022.28,"endTime":3025.4,"body":"to artificial intelligence that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3022.28,"endTime":3025.4,"body":"you know. So, so there are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3025.94,"endTime":3029.66,"body":"people, I think are reasonable"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3025.94,"endTime":3029.66,"body":"and really intelligent who would"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3030.2,"endTime":3033.02,"body":"would give some credence to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3030.2,"endTime":3033.02,"body":"this, this notion. And, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3033.02,"endTime":3038.42,"body":"know, I think we just have to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3033.02,"endTime":3038.42,"body":"aware that we're playing with"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3038.42,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"fire again and that there's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3038.42,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"naive view of technology, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3043.9,"endTime":3047.92,"body":"I think it's good. A lot of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3043.9,"endTime":3047.92,"body":"AR AI alarmists are at least"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3047.92,"endTime":3050.5,"body":"aware, in this case, with this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3047.92,"endTime":3050.5,"body":"technology, that it could run"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3050.5,"endTime":3054.04,"body":"away from us and have unforeseen"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3050.5,"endTime":3054.04,"body":"effects. That's always been true"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3054.04,"endTime":3056.98,"body":"of any technology. It was true"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3054.04,"endTime":3056.98,"body":"of stones that we started"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3057.22,"endTime":3061.26,"body":"chipping into spears. We drove"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3057.22,"endTime":3061.26,"body":"many species of animal to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3061.26,"endTime":3063.3,"body":"extinction because of that new"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3061.26,"endTime":3063.3,"body":"technology."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3064.32,"endTime":3068.7,"body":"He also, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3064.32,"endTime":3068.7,"body":"know, nuclear weapons, you know."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3069.66,"endTime":3072.42,"body":"And you know, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3069.66,"endTime":3072.42,"body":"mentioned during my intro that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3072.42,"endTime":3074.94,"body":"I'm interested in the work of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3072.42,"endTime":3074.94,"body":"someone like Rudolf Steiner, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3075.78,"endTime":3078.36,"body":"in terms of understanding our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3075.78,"endTime":3078.36,"body":"moment, you know. And he's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3078.36,"endTime":3080.96,"body":"vast thinker, and we don't have"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3078.36,"endTime":3080.96,"body":"time to get into all the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3080.96,"endTime":3085.7,"body":"details, but he foresaw, he"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3080.96,"endTime":3085.7,"body":"thought spiritual beings were"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3085.7,"endTime":3090.26,"body":"real. Christ, Buddha, Krishna,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3085.7,"endTime":3090.26,"body":"also, these two beings, which,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3090.26,"endTime":3094.04,"body":"for him, kind of personify evil."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3090.26,"endTime":3094.04,"body":"There's Lucifer, which is this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3094.04,"endTime":3098.36,"body":"being of light that tends to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3094.04,"endTime":3098.36,"body":"lead us into a kind of self"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3098.36,"endTime":3101.62,"body":"indulgent mysticism, where we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3098.36,"endTime":3101.62,"body":"just want to float away from the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3101.62,"endTime":3105.22,"body":"Earth. And then there's this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3101.62,"endTime":3105.22,"body":"other pole of evil that he"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3105.22,"endTime":3108.76,"body":"called Arman, which is more"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3105.22,"endTime":3108.76,"body":"about materialism and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3108.76,"endTime":3117.58,"body":"reductionism and really getting"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3108.76,"endTime":3117.58,"body":"so intellectually grounded down"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3117.58,"endTime":3120.18,"body":"that we were incapable of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3117.58,"endTime":3120.18,"body":"imagination. We think there's no"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3120.18,"endTime":3124.68,"body":"such thing as a soul, and become"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3120.18,"endTime":3124.68,"body":"possessed by the idea that we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3124.68,"endTime":3127.02,"body":"could download consciousness"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3124.68,"endTime":3127.02,"body":"onto computers, that would all"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3127.02,"endTime":3132.78,"body":"be what Steiner calls our minds"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3127.02,"endTime":3132.78,"body":"influence, right? So I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3132.78,"endTime":3136.86,"body":"just as an imaginative exercise"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3132.78,"endTime":3136.86,"body":"to understand some of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3136.86,"endTime":3139.8,"body":"psychological forces at play,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3136.86,"endTime":3139.8,"body":"bracketing whether or not these"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3139.8,"endTime":3143.54,"body":"are real spiritual beings with"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3139.8,"endTime":3143.54,"body":"metaphysical power. I think, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3143.54,"endTime":3147.08,"body":"know, we can learn a lot from"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3143.54,"endTime":3147.08,"body":"Steiner's account of Ahriman and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3147.08,"endTime":3153.08,"body":"what's happening in this test"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3147.08,"endTime":3153.08,"body":"Creel set of ideologies and the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3153.56,"endTime":3158.18,"body":"a lot of the PR around"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3153.56,"endTime":3158.18,"body":"artificial intelligence and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3158.18,"endTime":3161.98,"body":"transhumanism and stuff. The"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3158.18,"endTime":3161.98,"body":"danger is that we become so"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3161.98,"endTime":3164.98,"body":"convinced that we are just"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3161.98,"endTime":3164.98,"body":"algorithms running on a brain"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3164.98,"endTime":3169.3,"body":"computer that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3164.98,"endTime":3169.3,"body":"Steiner's point about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3169.3,"endTime":3175.3,"body":"materialism is that it's not"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3169.3,"endTime":3175.3,"body":"simply that it's false from a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3175.36,"endTime":3177.82,"body":"philosophical point of view,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3175.36,"endTime":3177.82,"body":"it's that it what's dangerous"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3177.82,"endTime":3180.72,"body":"about materialism is that it"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3177.82,"endTime":3180.72,"body":"makes itself True. In other"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3180.72,"endTime":3184.44,"body":"words, people who think of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3180.72,"endTime":3184.44,"body":"themselves as brain computers"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3184.44,"endTime":3185.52,"body":"running algorithms"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3187.14,"endTime":3192.54,"body":"really do then begin to operate"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3187.14,"endTime":3192.54,"body":"in that way, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3194.4,"endTime":3196.62,"body":"One of the things that I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3194.4,"endTime":3196.62,"body":"follows from a process"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3196.68,"endTime":3199.32,"body":"orientation, which I think I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3196.68,"endTime":3199.32,"body":"would include Steiner as the as"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3199.68,"endTime":3202.7,"body":"a process philosopher, whatever"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3199.68,"endTime":3202.7,"body":"we think of as the soul or"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3202.7,"endTime":3205.7,"body":"consciousness, it's not a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3202.7,"endTime":3205.7,"body":"substance that's just ready made"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3205.7,"endTime":3209.6,"body":"and given and like there you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3205.7,"endTime":3209.6,"body":"we're actually involved in a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3209.6,"endTime":3213.5,"body":"process of soul making, moment"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3209.6,"endTime":3213.5,"body":"by moment, day by day, and the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3213.5,"endTime":3219.32,"body":"sorts of ideas that we consider"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3213.5,"endTime":3219.32,"body":"true and that motivate us change"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3219.32,"endTime":3223.36,"body":"the very structure of our soul,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3219.32,"endTime":3223.36,"body":"of our inner life and our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3223.36,"endTime":3226.0,"body":"consciousness, right? And so"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3223.36,"endTime":3226.0,"body":"that's what he means by Well,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3226.0,"endTime":3229.54,"body":"materialism makes itself true."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3226.0,"endTime":3229.54,"body":"If you think materialistic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3229.54,"endTime":3233.14,"body":"thoughts, you really do become"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3229.54,"endTime":3233.14,"body":"kind of lodged in this"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3233.32,"endTime":3237.64,"body":"deterministic mode of thought"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3233.32,"endTime":3237.64,"body":"and consciousness. You become"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3237.64,"endTime":3243.54,"body":"more mechanistic. And so it's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3237.64,"endTime":3243.54,"body":"real participatory vision. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3243.54,"endTime":3245.88,"body":"like, how we think about"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3243.54,"endTime":3245.88,"body":"ourselves actually is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3245.88,"endTime":3247.2,"body":"transforming what we are."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3250.38,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3250.38,"body":"love that. I love that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3250.38,"endTime":3254.22,"body":"It's funny. I hadn't thought"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3250.38,"endTime":3254.22,"body":"about Steiner in a while, but"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3254.22,"endTime":3257.82,"body":"yeah, I agree. I agree. You know"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3254.22,"endTime":3257.82,"body":"what I feel like, if you could"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3257.82,"endTime":3260.24,"body":"sum up my personal philosophy,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3257.82,"endTime":3260.24,"body":"it's like, it's that the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3260.24,"endTime":3262.28,"body":"universe comes at you. And"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3260.24,"endTime":3262.28,"body":"archetypes, you know. And I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3262.28,"endTime":3268.28,"body":"think those, those, even those"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3262.28,"endTime":3268.28,"body":"kind of bipolar like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3269.12,"endTime":3270.08,"body":"was it called Ahriman?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3270.14,"endTime":3272.42,"body":"What's it called"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3270.14,"endTime":3272.42,"body":"Ahriman? Which is a name he"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3272.42,"endTime":3273.92,"body":"borrows from Zoroastrianism,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3273.98,"endTime":3278.3,"body":"yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3273.98,"endTime":3278.3,"body":"That's a I think those"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3278.3,"endTime":3281.8,"body":"archetypes totally exist. And,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3278.3,"endTime":3281.8,"body":"and, and, yeah, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3281.8,"endTime":3285.58,"body":"reminds me of the work, of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3281.8,"endTime":3285.58,"body":"course, of young and Hillman and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3285.58,"endTime":3291.76,"body":"all that too. But, but, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3285.58,"endTime":3291.76,"body":"totally agree that we do, we do"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3291.76,"endTime":3294.82,"body":"create, you know, we're co"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3291.76,"endTime":3294.82,"body":"creating, co creating reality,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3294.82,"endTime":3299.14,"body":"right with everybody else and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3294.82,"endTime":3299.14,"body":"everything else. And, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3299.14,"endTime":3303.12,"body":"mean. I don't know I could take"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3299.14,"endTime":3303.12,"body":"that in so many directions, but,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3304.08,"endTime":3307.14,"body":"but yeah, you know, from an"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3304.08,"endTime":3307.14,"body":"idealist standpoint, in terms"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3307.14,"endTime":3311.46,"body":"of, like consciousness and all"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3307.14,"endTime":3311.46,"body":"that we idealist, I think would"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3311.46,"endTime":3317.34,"body":"say that only living organisms"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3311.46,"endTime":3317.34,"body":"are able or capable of having"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3317.34,"endTime":3319.5,"body":"true, sort of, like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3317.34,"endTime":3319.5,"body":"phenomenological consciousness."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3319.5,"endTime":3323.54,"body":"But you know that, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3319.5,"endTime":3323.54,"body":"Michael Levin, like I've"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3323.54,"endTime":3327.5,"body":"encountered, I've sort of bumped"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3323.54,"endTime":3327.5,"body":"into him briefly in several"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3327.5,"endTime":3329.9,"body":"places. I feel like he's popping"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3327.5,"endTime":3329.9,"body":"up a lot lately, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3330.68,"endTime":3333.5,"body":"fully, I don't fully understand,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3330.68,"endTime":3333.5,"body":"like, I don't, I'm not familiar"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3333.5,"endTime":3335.96,"body":"with his work, but it gives me"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3333.5,"endTime":3335.96,"body":"the sense that he is kind of,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3335.96,"endTime":3339.5,"body":"it's almost like if, if what"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3335.96,"endTime":3339.5,"body":"he's saying is true, it's like a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3339.5,"endTime":3344.32,"body":"bridge. Maybe it bridges a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3339.5,"endTime":3344.32,"body":"little bit this, this kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3344.32,"endTime":3348.82,"body":"materialist and and more"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3344.32,"endTime":3348.82,"body":"idealist worldviews, right? Like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3348.82,"endTime":3351.7,"body":"he's sort of finding, like a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3348.82,"endTime":3351.7,"body":"middle ground there."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3351.7,"endTime":3356.08,"body":"That's true. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3351.7,"endTime":3356.08,"body":"fair. I think that's fair. He'll"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3356.08,"endTime":3360.04,"body":"refer to himself as a pan Psych."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3356.08,"endTime":3360.04,"body":"Is sometimes he seems, he seems"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3360.04,"endTime":3365.34,"body":"very willing to find points of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3360.04,"endTime":3365.34,"body":"connection with non materialist,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3365.34,"endTime":3371.28,"body":"non physicalist approaches. So,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3365.34,"endTime":3371.28,"body":"but he's still, and he's trying"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3371.28,"endTime":3373.86,"body":"to recruit philosophers to help"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3371.28,"endTime":3373.86,"body":"him figure this out. He's still,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3373.86,"endTime":3377.34,"body":"I think, not sure what is the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3373.86,"endTime":3377.34,"body":"ontology implied by his science,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3377.34,"endTime":3379.86,"body":"because he's very much an"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3377.34,"endTime":3379.86,"body":"empiricist, and he wants to show"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3379.86,"endTime":3382.4,"body":"his work in the lab and say,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3379.86,"endTime":3382.4,"body":"here's what we can do with these"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3382.4,"endTime":3386.06,"body":"ideas, not just, aren't these"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3382.4,"endTime":3386.06,"body":"ideas cool, right? So he's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3386.06,"endTime":3387.92,"body":"really grounded in experimental"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3386.06,"endTime":3387.92,"body":"work, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3388.22,"endTime":3390.26,"body":"isn't he building"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3388.22,"endTime":3390.26,"body":"like biological machines, in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3390.26,"endTime":3391.04,"body":"some sense, like"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3391.94,"endTime":3396.2,"body":"he they're living"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3391.94,"endTime":3396.2,"body":"cells, but he calls them"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3396.26,"endTime":3402.88,"body":"anthropots. He'll scrape some"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3396.26,"endTime":3402.88,"body":"epithelial cells from a human,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3402.88,"endTime":3405.7,"body":"from someone in the lab, and put"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3402.88,"endTime":3405.7,"body":"them in a petri dish. And these"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3405.7,"endTime":3409.72,"body":"are cells specialized to, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3405.7,"endTime":3409.72,"body":"know, be in our throat, but they"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3409.72,"endTime":3411.7,"body":"and they have the full human"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3409.72,"endTime":3411.7,"body":"genome, but in that new"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3411.7,"endTime":3415.36,"body":"environment, they start behaving"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3411.7,"endTime":3415.36,"body":"in totally novel ways and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3415.36,"endTime":3417.64,"body":"forming associations with each"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3415.36,"endTime":3417.64,"body":"other and doing things that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3417.64,"endTime":3419.92,"body":"there's nothing in their genes"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3417.64,"endTime":3419.92,"body":"that could have determined that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3419.92,"endTime":3423.24,"body":"they would behave this way. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3419.92,"endTime":3423.24,"body":"so he's really interested in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3423.24,"endTime":3429.0,"body":"sources of form and agency in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3423.24,"endTime":3429.0,"body":"biology that cannot be sourced"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3429.0,"endTime":3432.78,"body":"in the genome, and for"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3429.0,"endTime":3432.78,"body":"experimentally verifiable"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3432.78,"endTime":3436.02,"body":"reasons, that there's some other"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3432.78,"endTime":3436.02,"body":"source of form that's involved"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3436.02,"endTime":3440.12,"body":"here, he talks about bioelectric"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3436.02,"endTime":3440.12,"body":"fields as one example of a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3440.12,"endTime":3443.78,"body":"source of form that hasn't it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3440.12,"endTime":3443.78,"body":"been under explored and in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3443.78,"endTime":3446.72,"body":"history of modern biology. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3443.78,"endTime":3446.72,"body":"he's doing really interesting"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3446.72,"endTime":3452.18,"body":"work that does have application"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3446.72,"endTime":3452.18,"body":"beyond biology into tech and AI"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3452.18,"endTime":3453.5,"body":"and how we think about that too."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3453.979,"endTime":3455.959,"body":"Yeah, I'll have"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3453.979,"endTime":3455.959,"body":"to check out his stuff. Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3455.959,"endTime":3459.799,"body":"sounds really fascinating. It"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3455.959,"endTime":3459.799,"body":"sounds it reminds me of Rupert"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3459.799,"endTime":3462.939,"body":"Sheldrake a little bit, but"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3459.799,"endTime":3462.939,"body":"maybe it's sympathetic to it, or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3463.179,"endTime":3463.719,"body":"adjacent,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3465.64,"endTime":3467.98,"body":"adjacent synthetic"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3465.64,"endTime":3467.98,"body":"in resonance, I think so."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3467.98,"endTime":3472.12,"body":"Yeah, okay, okay,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3467.98,"endTime":3472.12,"body":"cool. Well, let's see. Let's,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3472.12,"endTime":3475.24,"body":"let's finish with an easy"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3472.12,"endTime":3475.24,"body":"question, what do you think"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3475.24,"endTime":3477.76,"body":"from, you know, from a kind of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3475.24,"endTime":3477.76,"body":"philosophical standpoint, we"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3479.32,"endTime":3482.16,"body":"touched on this briefly before."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3479.32,"endTime":3482.16,"body":"But like, you know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3482.16,"endTime":3484.68,"body":"solution to our current"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3482.16,"endTime":3484.68,"body":"political division?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3487.14,"endTime":3492.78,"body":"There's no, there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3487.14,"endTime":3492.78,"body":"there's no solution. The"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3492.78,"endTime":3499.8,"body":"solution is transformation. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3492.78,"endTime":3499.8,"body":"mean, I, I'm honestly, quite"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3499.8,"endTime":3504.8,"body":"dismayed about it. I find it"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3499.8,"endTime":3504.8,"body":"difficult to speak. I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3504.8,"endTime":3510.56,"body":"compelled to speak into current"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3504.8,"endTime":3510.56,"body":"events and what's happening, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3510.56,"endTime":3516.32,"body":"I I'm honestly trying to do my"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3510.56,"endTime":3516.32,"body":"best to speak across the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3516.32,"endTime":3522.22,"body":"differences and to not just fall"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3516.32,"endTime":3522.22,"body":"into an easy polarization. On"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3522.22,"endTime":3527.08,"body":"the other hand, I just keep"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3522.22,"endTime":3527.08,"body":"discovering that no matter how"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3527.08,"endTime":3530.08,"body":"balanced I try to be and saying,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3527.08,"endTime":3530.08,"body":"like, that extremes bad, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3530.08,"endTime":3534.94,"body":"that extreme is bad too, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3530.08,"endTime":3534.94,"body":"people get upset on either side"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3534.94,"endTime":3539.92,"body":"with me. So it's like I it's not"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3534.94,"endTime":3539.92,"body":"that I just need to get along"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3539.92,"endTime":3543.42,"body":"with everyone. It's that I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3539.92,"endTime":3543.42,"body":"increasingly worried that"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3543.42,"endTime":3546.54,"body":"there's no bridge, there's no"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3543.42,"endTime":3546.54,"body":"basis whatsoever for even"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3546.54,"endTime":3550.02,"body":"sharing a basic sense of what"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3546.54,"endTime":3550.02,"body":"the facts are, much less how to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3550.02,"endTime":3554.34,"body":"interpret the facts. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3550.02,"endTime":3554.34,"body":"worrying. It's very worrisome."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3556.14,"endTime":3561.68,"body":"But I do trust the process,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3556.14,"endTime":3561.68,"body":"which is to say, again, as a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3561.68,"endTime":3567.14,"body":"student of history, I trust the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3561.68,"endTime":3567.14,"body":"deep structure of human"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3567.14,"endTime":3572.18,"body":"consciousness and the archetypal"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3567.14,"endTime":3572.18,"body":"dynamics that are at play to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3572.42,"endTime":3577.34,"body":"lure us forward into a more"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3572.42,"endTime":3577.34,"body":"beautiful future. And it could"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3577.34,"endTime":3580.66,"body":"be that in the interim, things"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3577.34,"endTime":3580.66,"body":"are going to get really messy"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3580.66,"endTime":3586.84,"body":"and chaotic and even violent. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3580.66,"endTime":3586.84,"body":"mean, we don't have to say could"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3586.84,"endTime":3592.72,"body":"be that things are violent now,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3586.84,"endTime":3592.72,"body":"and that's a future of history."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3594.46,"endTime":3598.12,"body":"But again, I really do have a"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3594.46,"endTime":3598.12,"body":"faith in the human in the human"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3598.12,"endTime":3606.42,"body":"spirit and evolution. Is"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3598.12,"endTime":3606.42,"body":"difficult and without death and"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3606.42,"endTime":3612.06,"body":"suffering and the resistance"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3606.42,"endTime":3612.06,"body":"that that you know, various"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3612.06,"endTime":3617.16,"body":"forms of obstacles and even evil"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3612.06,"endTime":3617.16,"body":"plays in human evolution like we"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3617.16,"endTime":3621.56,"body":"don't evolve. So in that sense,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3617.16,"endTime":3621.56,"body":"Everything's going according to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3622.22,"endTime":3622.46,"body":"plan."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3622.46,"endTime":3625.7,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3622.46,"endTime":3625.7,"body":"I like that. It's Good answer."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3625.7,"endTime":3628.16,"body":"Good answer. It's hard. It is"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3625.7,"endTime":3628.16,"body":"hard. It's It's hard because"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3628.16,"endTime":3630.74,"body":"there's not much you can say"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3628.16,"endTime":3630.74,"body":"that's not going to upset"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3630.74,"endTime":3634.88,"body":"somebody or further polarize"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3630.74,"endTime":3634.88,"body":"things or whatnot. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3634.94,"endTime":3637.7,"body":"it's almost like, we're caught."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3634.94,"endTime":3637.7,"body":"We're caught in, like, a sort of"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3638.0,"endTime":3642.28,"body":"political, ideological catch 22"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3638.0,"endTime":3642.28,"body":"or or double blind. Double"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3642.28,"endTime":3645.34,"body":"blind, where you can't just like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3642.28,"endTime":3645.34,"body":"everything you say is just sort"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3645.34,"endTime":3648.76,"body":"of Yeah, makes it worse in some"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3645.34,"endTime":3648.76,"body":"way. I don't know it's very"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3648.76,"endTime":3649.54,"body":"strange, but I"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3649.54,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"will say it's does"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3649.54,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"seem to me that the two the loud"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3653.2,"endTime":3658.0,"body":"extremes on right and left,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3653.2,"endTime":3658.0,"body":"let's say are, it seems clear to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3658.0,"endTime":3661.38,"body":"me in a codependent"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3658.0,"endTime":3661.38,"body":"relationship, yeah, they are,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3661.38,"endTime":3667.26,"body":"that's true, calling each other"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3661.38,"endTime":3667.26,"body":"forth. And I do still think most"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3667.26,"endTime":3670.02,"body":"of us, what's scary about our"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3667.26,"endTime":3670.02,"body":"time is that more and more"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3670.02,"endTime":3673.26,"body":"people are getting sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3670.02,"endTime":3673.26,"body":"captured at the extremes, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3673.26,"endTime":3680.78,"body":"most people are still able to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3673.26,"endTime":3680.78,"body":"reasonable and are not captured,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3681.26,"endTime":3684.92,"body":"you know. And so I try to speak"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3681.26,"endTime":3684.92,"body":"into that middle ground where"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3684.92,"endTime":3690.14,"body":"people are trying to hold"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3684.92,"endTime":3690.14,"body":"attention, but the extremes are"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3690.14,"endTime":3695.0,"body":"in a codependent relationship."},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3690.14,"endTime":3695.0,"body":"And those of us who who are able"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3695.0,"endTime":3699.74,"body":"to struggle to not get captured"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3695.0,"endTime":3699.74,"body":"by one of the extremes need to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3699.74,"endTime":3707.38,"body":"act as relationship therapists,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3699.74,"endTime":3707.38,"body":"you know, or sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3707.38,"endTime":3710.44,"body":"therapist, couples counselor,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3707.38,"endTime":3710.44,"body":"has to say, I think you guys"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3710.44,"endTime":3714.88,"body":"need to get a divorce, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3710.44,"endTime":3714.88,"body":"I'm open to that too. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3715.72,"endTime":3718.12,"body":"we just, I think we, we need to"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3715.72,"endTime":3718.12,"body":"own our shit."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3718.78,"endTime":3721.26,"body":"Yeah, I agree. I"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3718.78,"endTime":3721.26,"body":"agree. I agree. Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3721.26,"endTime":3724.14,"body":"this is, this is why I like"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3721.26,"endTime":3724.14,"body":"having you on the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3724.14,"endTime":3731.34,"body":"because you always bring in such"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3724.14,"endTime":3731.34,"body":"a sort of nuanced and artful way"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3731.34,"endTime":3735.06,"body":"of approaching things and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3731.34,"endTime":3735.06,"body":"answering questions. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3735.06,"endTime":3738.36,"body":"everything is very well, you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3735.06,"endTime":3738.36,"body":"know, thoughtful. So I really"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3738.36,"endTime":3742.34,"body":"appreciate that. Do you before"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3738.36,"endTime":3742.34,"body":"we go, do you have anything"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3742.52,"endTime":3744.74,"body":"that's sort of like you're"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3742.52,"endTime":3744.74,"body":"actively working on now that you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3744.74,"endTime":3747.44,"body":"want to talk about or promote or"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3744.74,"endTime":3747.44,"body":"anything you know, where should"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3747.44,"endTime":3749.18,"body":"people go to kind of learn more"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3747.44,"endTime":3749.18,"body":"about you?"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3751.94,"endTime":3754.52,"body":"Yeah, I'm on sub"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3751.94,"endTime":3754.52,"body":"stack, my footnotes, the PLATO"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3754.7,"endTime":3762.4,"body":"blog, on and on YouTube. I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3754.7,"endTime":3762.4,"body":"got a number of pots on the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3762.4,"endTime":3767.38,"body":"stove. You know, very interested"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3762.4,"endTime":3767.38,"body":"in Michael Levin's work and the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3767.38,"endTime":3770.14,"body":"philosophy of biology. Got a few"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3767.38,"endTime":3770.14,"body":"things I'm working on there,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3774.04,"endTime":3780.54,"body":"nature of consciousness. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3774.04,"endTime":3780.54,"body":"I'm thinking about how to link"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3780.54,"endTime":3783.6,"body":"together. You know, the special"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3780.54,"endTime":3783.6,"body":"sciences. It's most of my"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3783.6,"endTime":3788.4,"body":"attention is geared towards,"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3783.6,"endTime":3788.4,"body":"like, okay, life exists. Minds"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3788.4,"endTime":3790.74,"body":"exist. What does that tell us"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3788.4,"endTime":3790.74,"body":"about the nature of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3790.74,"endTime":3796.8,"body":"universe? I'm always involved in"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3790.74,"endTime":3796.8,"body":"finding some sort of a through"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3796.8,"endTime":3802.88,"body":"line, you know, connecting the"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3796.8,"endTime":3802.88,"body":"dots there, but yeah, people can"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3802.88,"endTime":3805.52,"body":"see my latest stuff on sub"},{"speaker":"Matt Segall","startTime":3802.88,"endTime":3805.52,"body":"stack."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3806.12,"endTime":3807.8,"body":"Okay, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3806.12,"endTime":3807.8,"body":"I'll drop some links in the in"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3807.8,"endTime":3811.64,"body":"the show notes and all that too."},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3807.8,"endTime":3811.64,"body":"So, yeah, cool. Well, thank you"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3811.64,"endTime":3815.72,"body":"so much, Matt. This has been a"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3811.64,"endTime":3815.72,"body":"fun conversation, and I've been"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3815.72,"endTime":3822.58,"body":"I feel enlightened so, so thank"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3815.72,"endTime":3822.58,"body":"you. All right, well, thanks"},{"speaker":"Chad Woodford","startTime":3822.58,"endTime":3823.6,"body":"again. Take care, man, you."}]}