Relentless Love: a conversation with Buck Barrett

One of my goals with this podcast is to introduce an audience I love to people I love.  I’d love for you to meet Buck Barrett.  Buck is a husband and father and a passionately outspoken Christian.  He is also a former air traffic controller and currently works as a branch manager for the FAA’s Air Traffic Safety Oversight Service… and he does all of this while being the full-time preacher for a congregation in Renton, WA.

Buck and I talk about his conversion from a life of partying without purpose – the love of his brother that refused to take no for an answer when it came to Buck’s soul, and we also spend some time talking about how to talk to people about Jesus in the work environment without getting in trouble with HR, what it means to be family and to love people like Jesus loves us, we even spend some time talk about race and its impact on evangelism.  I entitled this conversation, ‘Relentless Love’ and I think you will find, Buck has a way of relentlessly seeking the lost and making sure that they know Jesus loves them.

"Remember, you are loved, so go, love better!"

Transcript

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I’m Scott Beyer and this is the Love Better podcast where we explore the truths and lies about love and more importantly how to turn love into a skill – something we can get better at and hone.

One of my goals with this podcast is to introduce an audience I love to people I love.  I’d love for you to meet Buck Barrett.  Buck is a husband and father and a passionately outspoken Christian.  He is also a former air traffic controller and currently works as a branch manager for the FAA’s Air Traffic Safety Oversight Service… and he does all of this while being the full-time preacher for a congregation in Renton, WA.

         Buck and I originally met when I was preaching in Washington State.  Buck would exhaust you just watching his work ethic except for the fact that his energy is so infectious.  It is impossible to walk away from a conversation with him without feeling encouraged and reminded that the only thing that matters in life is Jesus.

         Buck and his lovely family are a joy to be around.  Buck and I talk about his conversion from a life of partying without purpose – the love of his brother that refused to take no for an answer when it came to Buck’s soul, and we also spend some time talking about how to talk to people about Jesus in the work environment without getting in trouble with HR, what it means to be family and to love people like Jesus loves us, we even spend some time talk about race and its impact on evangelism.  I entitled this conversation, ‘Relentless Love’ and I think you will find, Buck has a way of relentlessly seeking the lost and making sure that they know Jesus loves them.

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Scott Beyer: We could talk about a zillion different things and you and I would find something to talk about, but I want you to tell me about how you and your wife were converted.

I want you to tell me about your work as an air traffic controller and now FAA and like how your Christianity intersects with that. I want you to talk about all the things where you, all the different ways that you try and talk with people. I want to talk about how you are so ridiculously optimistic all the time.

That is a skill that you have that not everybody has so I know you can't talk about all those at once. So let's just maybe just start with how did you and your wife become a christian? How did you start this path?

Buck Barrett: We'll talk about it and then my wife will go listen to whatever, we did this maybe a few years ago. My wife will go listen to it and she'll be like, you forgot that detail. You forgot that detail. I'm like, I can't remember all of it.

But, started because the wife and I were in Texas which was my dream place to live. Like a lot of people don't know that, like we wanted to live in Texas bad. And the reason why was because it was like this unknown land that nobody from my family had ever explored. 

It was like one of those places where I could go explore on my own and set up roots for me and my family. And that was just our dream. And so I went in the military, didn't get stationed in Texas. I really wanted to get stationed in Texas after high school. Didn't happen. Got stationed in New Orleans went through Hurricane Katrina there.

And we decided, we still want to try this Texas thing. So I applied to be an air traffic controller cause I was an air traffic controller in the military. And And it was a long shot. Like I didn't expect to get hired. It was a real long shot to, to get that job. But anyway, at the same time, we were supposed to be changing bases from Naval Air Station, New Orleans.

By that time I had been in the military for five years. I had pick where I wanted to go and we were going to transfer to the base in Texas in Fort Worth. So we were going to Texas either way. Like I told you, it was my dream spot and we wound up getting there being an air traffic controller and the military was over and being an air traffic controller had very crazy schedules.

You're working all night or sometimes you're not seeing daylight. It was a really crazy schedule and we just partied, Scott. That's what we did. We partied. I'd get off of work and we would go to a bar, right? Like we, that's what we did. We just partied. And one morning, It was a Thursday morning or Wednesday.

I can't remember exactly which morning it was, but my phone rings and it's my brother. And my brother, I had a tremendous amount of respect for him, still do. And I answered the phone like all groggy, like it's early, like not wanting to answer the phone. And he's Hey, how are you doing? And I'm like, I'm good.

What do you want? Basically. He's I want to come and see you. And I'm like, Alright let's talk about this later we'll book some flights or whatever, he's no, we're getting in the car and we're gonna come see you tomorrow, and I'm like. What do you mean?

You're in Georgia. He was in Georgia at that time. He had just gotten back from Japan in the military. He was in the Marine Corps, which is why I didn't join the Marine Corps. And he said, I gotta come see you. So I hang up the phone with him. I was like, let me call you back. Let me get out of bed.

Let me call you back. And I turned over to my wife in bed and I'm like, Roger wants to come see me, see us. She's what? And if you know my brother, you, you've met my brother. Okay. He has this serious demeanor about him, like very straight up and down, like just very not kidding around all the time.

And so for him to say he wanted to come see us, like that just, that was really odd. Like the oddest thing that I have probably heard come out of his mouth in our life. So I called him back, I was like, are you serious? I was like what is your flight going to get? He's I'm going to drive.

He's we want to leave in the morning. He's we may even leave tonight. And you're going to drive 15 hours to get to Texas. We don't know you're coming like this is just a random week. You're just gonna come. He said yeah, so sure enough He get I really wasn't gonna tell him no sure enough He gets in the car him and his wife and his daughter My niece and my sister in law and they drive the however little 14 15 hours to come see us and he gets there I remember vividly Scott walking out of my house walking down the driveway Meeting him right there and saying what do you want?

What, who's dead? What is what is going on? And he says, which I thought was super disrespectful if you want to know the truth. I was thinking about this after I talked to you last time. I felt like, why would you drive all the way here and not tell me what you want? He says, we'll talk about it tomorrow night.

And I was like, And that kind of made me be like, no, you don't drive all the way here. Don't pull big brother on me and just tell me what I'm going to do in my house. Let's talk about it now. And he just, he wouldn't do it. So we go to a water park. We just hang out that day. I barbecue the next day comes.

I asked him, Hey, can we talk? He's no, we'll talk about it tonight. And I kid you not that night we sat down with a Bible and he says, I want to talk to you about Jesus Christ. And I was like, did you come all the way here for that? Because if you did, you're out of luck. I don't want to hear it.

I don't want, I don't want, again, Scott, we were partying. I didn't want any part of this religion. We grew up in the Methodist church. And so I saw all religion is fake. I really did. I saw all religion is fake and What saved me, though, is, as always, my wife. My wife is like, baby, let's just listen. And the reason why she said that is because she had been trying to find a church. She would go in, there's this lady that I work with, and at that time we were still caught up in being black. And what I mean by that is, we felt like there was nothing good for us except for being around black people.

If we couldn't be around black people, That was a no go, right? That's one of the reasons why at first, when we got to Texas, even though it was like our dream land, the area that we lived in Texas, there weren't a lot of black people and we didn't like it at all. So this black lady at my job was like, Hey, if your wife wants to come to church, you can come to my church.

And I came home and I was so excited. I was like, Hey, this lady that said you could come to church. And my wife went, she tried everything to find a church and she just didn't like it. And they screamed too much and it was too loud. And she just didn't like it. So my wife was like, let's just listen. So we did.

And I wasn't really listening, but I was listening, right? Like I was he literally laid out the gospel in 45 minutes. Like he started at the beginning and show how mankind sin. And he walked me through a path that God this wonderful path that God planned for the redemption of mankind.

And we got all the way to Jesus. He explained all of it. And I was like, okay, whatever, like anybody can know a few scriptures, but what did impress me though? I remember this vividly, and I don't think I've told you this before. My wife had a boatload of questions. She had so many questions that I almost was embarrassed.

Like, why is she asking all these questions? But she asked them, and he answered every one of them with a scripture. Everyone. There was not one that he answered and he was like I think and so on and so forth. No, he was like Jesus talks about that in Luke 18. He was like Paul talks about this in, Ephesians 4.

And I'm like, how does this guy know all this? So this is a Saturday night and he says, I'll tell you what, why don't you guys just come to church with us in the morning? And we were like, we're not, I said this, I'm not coming to church with you. You don't even know anybody in Texas. You're from Georgia. He was like, no, I looked up a church.

I'm like, oh, here we go. Like some random place that we're supposed to go to and it's going to be awkward for two hours and then we're going to leave and go home. He was like, would you just try it? Again, my wife would go to bed and the answer that I told my brother that night before I went to bed was no, not going.

My wife said she would go, but I said, I'm not going. You're not going to pressure me just because you drove 15 hours. To get me to go to church. She worked on me all night. She wouldn't let me have any peace. We woke up the next morning. She was like, are you going to go? And finally I was like, yes, woman, I'm going to go leave me alone about it.

I'll put on something. We're going to go. And I tell people all the time, if it wasn't for my wife and her caring about my soul, you just never know. And we go to the next, we go to the church, Scott, and it was the Weirdest experience. There was this, I don't know if this old, you know what? Maybe I should reach out to this lady.

There's this little old lady that when we pulled up into this church, I think it was called the Eastland Church of Christ. Almost positive it was the Eastland Church of Christ in South Dallas. There's a little old lady and she greeted us in the parking lot and she hugged my neck, Scott. And I was In shock because I'm like this lady doesn't know me like when you give somebody a hug and in our culture and society, that's a big deal for you to give somebody a hug, right?

And so and to hug a stranger on top of that it was like we're so glad that you're here We're so happy that you're here, you can sit by us and all this kind of stuff I'm, like and my brother's oh, yeah, thank you. What's your name? And they're just talking like they've known each other their whole lives.

I'm like have you met this woman? He's no, but she's my sister in christ. I'm like You What? Is this the Twilight Zone? And we get in there and I remember this vividly too, that I didn't tell you before. I look at the front of the church and there was no choir and the preacher. There was nobody sitting up there.

They had three chairs up there, but there was nobody sitting in the pulpit. And I said to myself who's going to preach? Because in the Methodist church, the preacher sits up there the whole time with his robe on and he sits there all, but I didn't see any of that. And I just vividly remember saying, why is there nobody sitting in the pulpit?

This is odd. And then when it came time for the, there was no choir, there was no piano, but the songs struck me as these people are really happy to sing these songs. Like they were like, they were really like happy and just engage with these songs. And then the preacher gets up, the preach and he got, he was sitting in the pew right in front of us and I didn't even know it, Scott.

So I was like the preacher. It's sitting in a pew in front of us. Why is he not in the pulpit? He gets up and every single thing that he said, I understood. I understood his point. I understood what he was getting at. After worship, we go to the parking lot, and my brother leaves from right there in the parking lot.

He had already packed up his bags. Oh, and I didn't know this. They woke up early, had already packed up their bags, and they left right there and drove 15 hours back to Georgia from the church parking lot. That was their entire mission. And Scott, he says, whatever you do, and my brother says, whatever you do with this is up to you, but I wanted you to at least have an opportunity to know God and know the truth. And I just looked at him and he hugged me and he hurried away in his car, him and his wife and my niece, and they drove back. Fast forward a clock one day. I couldn't sleep that Sunday night like literally couldn't sleep like it gives me chills to think about now But I literally couldn't sleep I woke up the next morning and I said if this if my brother's telling the truth I'm gonna call all these churches of Christ around here.

I'm gonna just get in the I literally pulled up Google found all of them I called six churches None of them answered and I was like this salvation can't be real It can't be that big of a deal because these people aren't even answering the phone What if some random guy like me wants to know God they're not even answering the phone so they can't be serious about God which reminds me that's something that I probably need to fix in our congregation, but Yeah, like answering machine wasn't gonna do for me that day.

I wanted to talk to somebody, right? And I called the Seventh Church, and it was a Brown Trail Church, and there's this little lady answer the phone. I told her what had happened. She says I don't know, what you're doing right now, but why don't you come down here right now and let's talk about it.

Which gave me chills, which stopped me. I drove down there, met the preacher Eddie Parrish. We talked for an hour in his office, and he said verbatim, never met my brother, but the same gospel story, he told it verbatim. And at that moment, I knew,

Scott Beyer: because the bible's same for everybody

Buck Barrett: That's right at that moment. I knew that this was authentic that these people weren't just lying to me They knew the scriptures.

I called my wife at work. I says baby. This is the truth What we heard was the true message of Jesus Christ that we need to be baptized for the remission of our sins I says leave work right now And let's do this. And she did. She drove home. We went to Larry McWilliams house ex Major League pitcher and to his pool.

And because the baptism was broke at Brown Trail, as they always are at churches sometimes it seems. And we went to his house and we got baptized and the rest is history. And that's how we got converted to Christianity.

Scott Beyer: man I just, I know you and I have talked about this as just friends, not on recording like this, but just, as friends before, but there are several things that I think are such a big deal. And I and one is just your brother. Love your brother. I love his intensity. He's such an intense guy.

Buck Barrett: is so intense.

Scott Beyer: But, I think one aspect of really loving people is you have to have some intensity sometimes. Is it important or is it not? Sometimes we put off these conversations that really matter, these crucial conversations that we have to have, and we give ourselves excuses and he didn't.

Man, 15 hour drive, that's a good excuse, but he didn't, and And the fact that sometimes even when people aren't, you don't think they're listening, right?

Buck Barrett: facts.

Scott Beyer: And so now you're in Texas, you're a Christian now, you are working, are you still in the military at this point?

Buck Barrett: I was in the FAA at that point. 

Scott Beyer: So now you're an air traffic controller in the FAA. You were before in the military.

Buck Barrett: Yes. Yeah. And we are there and remember this is our dream place. This is this is something that you don't know, Scott. We've talked a lot, but this is like peeling back the curtain a little bit.

I don't think nobody knows, but you and your listeners now. So me and my wife are there in Texas. We buy a house, we get a house with the swimming pool. Now we came from South Georgia. Somebody had a swimming pool. They've made it in their life. We,

Scott Beyer: You, you've arrived. If you got the swimming pool, you've made it.

Buck Barrett: you've made it. So the wife and I are just as happy as we could possibly be. We have a great congregation at Brown trail. We had a family. That almost adopted us. The Colgate's family just took us in. They loved us. They, on holidays, they were the family that was like. You're not spending Thanksgiving by yourself get over here because remember all of our family was in Georgia And so they just adopted us we had decided that we were staying in Texas for the rest of our life This was home.

We were eventually gonna move maybe out in the country somewhere with a little bit more land but this was home and A job comes open in Seattle and I'm like not gonna happen like I'm not good. I didn't even consider It didn't even just didn't even consider it. But while I was in Texas, the interesting part is I was doing everything I could to learn, get a deeper understanding of the Bible.

I would go to church, Scott, and I'm like, man, how come I don't know as much as that guy or that guy? Like, why don't I have the confidence to get up there and lead a devotional like that guy? And I've always wanted to,

Scott Beyer: age are you at this point?

Buck Barrett: 25, 26,

Scott Beyer: 25 and you're like starting to get some Bible knowledge and you're probably looking around at people younger than you who have had a head start.

Buck Barrett: Yes. Yes. And this is why I say to congregations all the time when I speak there, I say, don't take for granted growing up in the church. That is a tremendous blessing that I wish that I would have had, but I'm very grateful That I'm just a believer in Christ Jesus, but there's advantages and disadvantages to both, right?

There's perspectives to both, but I look at the people who were raised in the church and I say, man, it's so many things that they never stroke had to struggle with the world because they never got a taste of that, right? And, but then at the same time, they have their own struggles. We all have struggles.

And it took me some time to realize that But I was just like, I want to learn. So I signed up to world video Bible school, right? I was trying to take online courses, the school, the church that I was at Brown trail had a preaching school there where they literally trained preachers. They had an upstairs that was a college campus.

I just worked so much. I couldn't go there. And we're just, I don't know, we're just, I'm just trying my best Scott to learn, and I just couldn't do it. And this job pops up in Seattle and my boss at the time. Which now I believe God puts people in our lives sometimes just in seasons just for a reason.

I mean he's always operated like that. We don't think of, we don't, the Philip and the Eunuch didn't have, live a long happy life together, right? It was just for a reason, 

Scott Beyer: They were connected at the right time in the right way, right moment.

Buck Barrett: Exactly right. And this lady, my boss at the time, who was like, I really think you should take this job. You've been doing a really and it was a promotion. She's I really think you should I says, I don't want to go to Seattle. I don't know nobody in Seattle. Like, why would I move to Seattle? This is my happy place.

Like, why would I do this? She was like just come up here with me on a trip. Just come with me. And I did. I went up there with her just to do some briefing or something at Boeing and I go up there and I called my wife when I got off the airplane. I says, baby, this is probably one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen in my life.

It is gorgeous. I see sailboats. I see people just riding down the road, eating ice cream on bicycles. I says this seems the land of Oz or something. I don't know what's going on here, but this is pretty cool. I get back there and she says, again, my wife, Says, baby, we've always done something.

We've always moved to areas that we're familiar with. She says, why don't we go somewhere as a family that we've never been to before? It's like me and you can do this together by ourselves with our family. Let's just go do it. She says, we don't like it. We can move to DC. And I'm like, yeah, that's right.

I still had to get the job. So I put my name in the hat, lo and behold, I get the job and we're driving to Seattle with her seven months pregnant, and we get up there, we go to a congregation, we liked it a lot. Some things happened, but then I hear another congregation has a preaching school and my eyes just, you can imagine. Like they just get this

Scott Beyer: This is what you wanted.

Buck Barrett: This is what I wanted. And I'm like, man, I wonder if it's a preaching school. Cause I'm thinking like Texas, right? Where it's like a curriculum where you like, you have to be there from eight in the morning to three in the afternoon and you get a lunch break and all this stuff.

But I just couldn't do that with my job. I call the guy and he says, Oh no, it's not like that at all. We make our own schedule. I got things to do. We just, and I says, sounds good to me and the wife. We go to this congregation and we start working there. Eventually I signed up for the preaching school, which is a two year commitment.

And that's how I became a preacher. And I look back at how everything happened. And it was, I say all the time, you can't see God right now, but when you look back, you can sure see him. And. Looking back, I could see every step that, that he orchestrated to make this happen. But in the moment, I was just like, what are we doing going to Seattle?

And so that's how. I became a preacher and the family and I just started this work of sharing the gospel. And it really is a family work. There's a lot of sacrifice that the family has to make, the wife has to make in order for a gospel preacher to be effective. But we started this work as a family.

My wife was right there on board with me and the rest is history. I worked at that congregation for a few years and now I'm at this congregation, the Renton Church, been here for five years.

Scott Beyer: Yeah. And at the same time that you're preaching, you're also working full time for the FAA, right? Okay. 

Buck Barrett: For sure.

Scott Beyer: so one of the things that I know about you and I've always been impressed about is just that you, And maybe it stems all the way back to the way that you became a Christian. Your brother just would have the conversation with you and didn't compromise, no excuses.

And I see you do that with people. Like you will stop and talk to anybody and it makes you very evangelistic. People can tell that you love them. But I wonder sometimes like you, you work in a government job. Right? So if there's anywhere that is a place that I would think would be tricky to navigate spiritual conversations, it's in the, working in a government entity.

How do you navigate that? For people, we have that in lots of companies now, right? There's things you can talk about, things you can't talk about. You can get in trouble with HR but you still have to live your faith. So how do you navigate all that stuff?

Buck Barrett: Scott, I've baptized three of my employees. You put that in perspective and it's not anything, it's not anything that I've done. I don't have, I don't, I'm just a tool and I, the message is what's great. Paul says that it's the gospel is the power of God to salvation.

, I can get a little emotional talking about this. I didn't know this at the beginning of my journey, Scott, but when somebody has a want to, when they want to, I was just talking about this at our congregation yesterday, the children of Israel, when they were in Egyptian captivity, one part that we miss is that God told Moses that I have heard the cry of my people. Like they wanted out of there and they wanted to have a relationship with a guy that could get them out of there. That was obviously clear. And sometimes we skip that step. And what I mean by that is we think that because somebody is talking about God or because somebody, may go to church or whatever, or seem to be good people.

No, they still have to want to have a relationship with God based off of truth. And so what I've done in my career with anybody, I ask questions to basically evaluate that. Does this person want to have a relationship with God? And do they have, just like we've all had to have, the humility to say, I don't know.

That's a good question. And so what I've done with everybody, no matter what the situation in, I will always ask questions to see, do they want to have a relationship with God? And I can remember one person that I can quote that I will just tell you because he wouldn't be ashamed. His name is Kelvin.

He walked past my office one day and we were I was like on a break. I had been on like meetings for four hours straight. He walks past my office and And he was like, hey, Buck, what's going on? And I was like, hey, okay, I call him KP. I says, hey What do you think about like spiritual stuff? He's what kind of spiritual stuff? Like voodoo stuff? I says, no, I'm not talking about voodoo stuff. Like It's like spiritual stuff, like God stuff. I says, do you go to church somewhere? He's no, I don't. He says, I'm always, he says, I'm gonna be honest with you though.

I says, what? He says, Man, there's a bunch of fake stuff going out there and I don't want any part of that. And I was like, really? He's yeah. And I said, what kind of fake stuff? And he expounded on it. Just the same things I've experienced growing up. And he says, man, I gotta believe that there's something better out there than all this fake stuff.

But I hadn't seen it. And I, and that struck me like that was what I, that, that little crack in the door when he says I gotta believe that there's something better out there was enough for me to go like to step two of asking questions. Cause at that moment, I was like, Oh, okay. I understand. I says, yeah I feel the same way.

It has to be something better than this mainstream religion out here. Like that just can't be it. But that was it for the day. No more talking. No more nothing. He went about his way. I went about my way. I see him later, like maybe a couple weeks later, and I ask a follow up question. And I says, what do you think about the Bible? He was like it's complicated. And he says, everybody that I talk to about the Bible, they'll just cherry pick verses, but they really don't know it. He was like, if somebody actually knew the Bible and could teach me, he says, I'd be all ears. He says, but nobody really knows the Bible like that.

People just, he says, I could do what you do. He says, I could go get Google, get a list of 10 scriptures and memorize them and walk around and sound. Educated about the Bible. He says, but you can tell when somebody knows the Bible. And I says, yeah. And I forget which passage I quoted and I quoted a passage and he looked at me like hadn't heard that one before.

That was the second time we talked about it. And we went our separate ways. The third time it was outside. And I says, let's just have a conversation about this. And I says, we went over some scriptures and so on and so forth. I says, Would you like to know about this? Would you like to just study with me and just talk about it? And he said you know the Bible because he's been asking me questions that third meeting He just started asking me a bunch of questions and I would just say hold on. Let's turn here. Let's turn there same kind of effect that my brother had on me as far as like somebody knows the scriptures happened to him and we Studied and three months later He was baptized him and his wife as a matter of fact.

And the key ingredient there is how I navigate the waters without breaking any rules or so on and so forth. If somebody's engaging me about God, then I don't have to say no. And what I mean by that is it's completely legal for somebody to come up to a Muslim at work and say, Hey I want to know about Islam.

I want to know about this, and so forth. You actually seek this stuff, right? Or it's completely legal for somebody to say, I'm not I'm in a world where I want to, make, basically talk about homosexuality and being safe at work with it, right? We have all of this stuff.

There's nothing wrong with that, but what i've noticed is they have to initiate you just can't go to somebody So I took the same thing with religion I'm, just gonna ask some foundational questions that nobody can get in trouble for or somebody comes back to me and ask me questions Who am I?

It's a consensual conversation at that point. There's not, I'm forcing anybody to talk about anything. I just ask the questions and if they have the inquisitiveness, they want to know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have that conversation. And that's how I've always navigated those waters safely. That's not saying that's going to always be the case.

Scott, I'm fully aware. I'm fully aware that one day my boss may come back to me and say, what you did was wrong and you're getting a suspension for it. And I will say, I'll fight it. I'll do everything I can, but I'll say I have fellowship with the sufferings of Christ and I'm going to keep going. That, that's just how I see it.

I'm not going to be fearful of it. And I have a really good job. I have a really good job and I need this job. But as I tell my wife and I tell our congregation all the time, I trust God more than I trust man. And I'm going to do his will the best that I can. I'm not going to be malicious to the government.

I'm going to do a really good job for the government. I'm going to work hard. I always do. But if somebody asked me a question, I'm going to answer it. And that's how I feel about it.

Scott Beyer: I see, it's interesting to me. I really appreciate that approach because I think you're, I think we sometimes tend to skip straight to the next thing, which is, let me tell you what you should believe. And what you're saying is, that's not your job. Your job is, I want to know what you currently believe.

I'm just curious about you, and then if that makes them curious about me, and they want to continue that conversation, then we're all in the clear.

Buck Barrett: We're all in the clear.

Scott Beyer: that makes a lot of sense. So you're navigating those waters by simply saying, look, I open the conversation by asking them about their faith. Or, like you said, Kelvin there, what do you think about spiritual things?

Like you're just asking him about him. And then if that turns into him asking you great. That means he's seeking, which is the whole point. Our job is not to drag people kicking and screaming. It's to open the door for them to have those conversations. So yeah, that all of that makes total sense.

But see, I don't live in that world. You do. And

Buck Barrett: Yeah.

Scott Beyer: And I know a lot of other people do too. You have to if you work at a fortune 500 company if you work for the government, you are absolutely going to have to navigate the HR stuff. And there's a way to to do it without compromising your faith.

The other thing that I think is interesting is your approach not only navigates the government, protocol, I think it's just more effective in general.

Buck Barrett: Yeah. I said this to the rent and church yesterday, brother. Because. We, I don't know, like sometimes we, the church, God's people, we can have this attitude like, and I say this about religion in general, that we can have this attitude that everybody else didn't have a clue what they're doing and we got everything figured out.

And We don't, right? We don't have everything figured out. We know that there's one Lord, one faith, one baptism. We're trying our absolute best, but we're still practicing the religion. We don't have it down, right? We're still trying to do our best to follow Christ. And one thing, one step to your point, Scott, I would always just, I would get so discouraged when I would go to somebody and say you need to, here's the gospel message.

Now believe it. And then they won't believe it. And, or they won't react to it. And I would get so discouraged. Man, what is the deal? This is the greatest message in the world. Why wouldn't this person take it? Because I skipped the step of them wanting that message. And once I figured that out, then it became, I was able to be a little bit more effective.

Because and even then. There's a guy that I'm studying with now, and I've been studying with for six months. He'll show glimpses of wanting it and then he'll just go off in the love field. And so it's not try, it's not like it's a hundred percent. It's just, it's a little bit more effective than just cold.

Like I'm going to teach you the gospel. Like I am very, if I open my Bible and I'm going to teach, we're going to take time to teach the gospel. That means that you have showed a significant interest in this gospel. And if you hadn't, we're not going to do that because what I've seen is it turns out to be a waste of time or.

What I've also seen is somebody will take it and Jesus talked about this and they're there for three weeks and then they're out of there. And so I, I just try my absolute best to let them show that they want it. And that has been, that's proven to be very successful for me at work and outside of work, everywhere.

Scott Beyer: Yeah. So this makes me wonder about another thing that I've always seen with you, what I would call relentless optimism. Like you are optimistic Even though I know not everything's gone well. You're not naive, right? You've seen people fall away from the Lord. You have seen, family troubles and and difficulties in, in just dealing with people, right?

In the family of the Lord. Your job, working with the FAA you deal with people who are, At all sorts of different stages of things. How do you stay optimistic when life doesn't always go well?

Buck Barrett: Optimism is a perspective. And, I say, I'm a normal guy, right? I have ups and downs but one thing, Scott, that I try to always remember is that, and I know this may sound, I don't know, man, I don't, I really, I care how it sounds, but then again, I don't, but, I always think about Jesus and what I mean by that is we don't, I don't think we quite grasp the weight and magnitude of him being a man and God on this earth and everything that he had to go through.

We talk about, so let's talk about the worst in our society for a second, like murderers who's like committed capital murder in a, we were talking about Texas. Let's talk about Texas. Somebody commits capital murder in Texas. The reason why people are the people that are out there marching saying no capital murder.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it. I'm just saying there's always people marching saying no capital murder is wrong. One of the biggest reasons is torturous for a person to know that they're going to die. That is just not right. Like the human brain can't deal with that, right? And meanwhile,

Scott Beyer: them that sentence and then they have to live waiting for it to be enacted is a form of torture, is the argument.

Buck Barrett: Is the argument it's a form of torture and it's not all the arguments there's different arguments, but that's one of the arguments, right? And then they're gonna die by lethal injection and it's gonna be pretty painless death, but they're gonna die And I think about jesus literally being a man Here on earth, knowing that his death sentence was coming, but not that it was just coming, that it was going to be torturous.

Like they were going to beat him to a pulp before they crucified him. And they did. The Romans were really good at this and they did. And he went through with it and he went through with it. So it was so bad. It was so bad that in the garden, he asked men like his disciples. Come pray with me. I'm going to go over here and pray, or he didn't say I'm going to pray with me, but he says come with me.

I'm going to go over here and pray, and he says that he was in anguish. At that moment because he knew that it was time and he still said i'm gonna do it Like if we really believe that jesus walked this earth and if we really believe that he was a man and still got at the same time, but he still had feelings and he still had emotion if we believe that with every ounce our being I look at myself scott And I said what excuse do I have?

To go into a situation with a brother or sister in Christ, or somebody who's trying to learn, or somebody who is trying to get this gospel. What, yeah, am I tired? I use this all the time. Am I tired? Do I feel like going on a Thursday night? I just got home and somebody wants to have a Bible study. Do I feel like doing it?

No, I don't feel like doing it. But if I, if they've went through this, when they've demonstrated that they have questions and they want to know. Then I think about Jesus. I think about he didn't want to do it and I think about I'm gonna go do it and I'm gonna put my best foot forward because we're tools and When we remember that we're tools and that we are working on behalf of Christ Then it puts everything in the right lane for me.

I don't start to get in my feelings and so the short answer is I always think about Jesus from the point that he Walked this earth just like I am and he had every right You Every single right Scott to say this is beneath me because it was but he didn't and if our god can do that I have no place.

Seriously. I have no place to sit here and be upset or You know be in a bad mood and again i'm a man I we I've been through times here recently where I wasn't always in a good mood, Scott. Where, even folks at the congregation were calling me saying, are you okay, brother? Because there used to be being happy go lucky, and there was a couple Sundays where I wasn't happy go lucky, and people were like, what's going on?

Something's really wrong. But I'd rather have that. Then people will be like, Oh why is Buck in a good mood? I want people to know that, 

Scott Beyer: the default is good mood, not the default is, wow, he's he doesn't look happy at all.

Buck Barrett: yeah, I want people to know we have, there's a joy that we have with this work that we have. And if we don't, if we're not joyful doing it, then what are we doing? If we don't realize that there's a huge prize at the end of this. Then what are we working so hard for? So that's how I try to stay optimistic again.

It doesn't work all the time But typically yes, typically i'm trying especially when i'm dealing with the world i'll try to be in a good mood and i'll try To just remember what christ went through and I know that may you know may not be like the answer that Some folks are expecting, but it's the truth for me.

Scott Beyer: And maybe that's it is that I've got the wrong word. Maybe it's not optimism. It comes across as optimism, but maybe it says you have a joy. And I, cause I do think I see that joy in you all the time. And that's one of the things that I think, when you and I have been talking You know out somewhere together and seen somebody and you get to talking to them.

I think that's what people notice is that you are Joyous. You're happy to be a Christian. You and that comes across as caring about them. And who wants to talk to somebody about their beliefs when they're not happy in those beliefs? So

Buck Barrett: Yeah. Think about that, Scott. Think about this. We're going, we're don't get me started on this, but there's a such thing as an introvert, right? There's legitimate people who don't like to be around other people. And I'm not saying those people can't be effective at all. I'm not seeing that, like those people can be super effective for God.

But for me personally, I'm not fixing to go join any group where everybody in the group is miserable, right? And that's what we put off sometimes, Come join us where you can be sad all the time. No I don't want that. I want people to see some of the best times is when I'm with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Where the, and we're in different, I'm a black guy in the Northwest and I can be with, somebody who may be a white person or Hispanic in the Northwest and we love each other like we've known each other our whole lives because our bond is spiritual, right? And we can be out in public and people do look sometimes like Why are they so close?

And I actually, in Texas, was talking to a guy. Studied with the guy because he literally just saw how close we were and how happy we were with our brother. I don't know, this joy that we have, if you look in the New Testament, how many times the word joy is mentioned, we ought to be really happy about this work that we're doing and when we're not how can we expect for somebody to say I want to be a part of that.

People got problems on their own. We, you, Christ is above all of that. If we can live like that and believe it, people will pay attention in my personal opinion.

Scott Beyer: As we've been talking, you've mentioned, you mentioned race a couple of times, and this is an audio thing, so people may not know. I'm white. But in case you didn't know but has that been, do you think that, that race has gotten in the way of Christians here in America? Do you think that's a problem that, that we need to overcome somehow?

And has it impacted your relationship with Christians?

Buck Barrett: that is a loaded question,

Scott Beyer: I know, it's a completely low question and I just dumped it on you and if you say I don't want to talk about it, we'll

Buck Barrett: No. That's what we're here for. We're friends. We can talk about anything. I'm literally picturing us I actually long to be sitting in your living room with a cup of coffee having the same conversation. It's just that we're doing it virtually. So There's a lot of things that get in the way.

 For race, so here's the thing about race.

For for a guy like me and my wife to come from South Georgia where we were taught, and I make no apologies, that the white man was evil. The white man was going to do you bad. The white man was just, like I said, we grew up, Scott, like we had two proms in my town, a white prom and a black prom.

Like I'm not mistaken, they still do it. What I mean by that is for the viewers who are like, that's illegal. Yeah, it is. Technically, but what if nobody white shows up to the school prom? Is that illegal? You can't make kids go to the school prom Is it also illegal for some parents to get together and rent out a venue and say call it something else?

And it's invite only and no black kids are invited. Is that illegal? So

So that's how they get away with it, right? So for all the people who are like that's not Be careful with saying something's illegal, not illegal, because, Congress passed laws a long time ago that says discrimination was wrong, but in certain areas it still happens, right?

So illegal doesn't matter. But I say that to say in the South, for example, we came from this area where we was, like I said, being the white man was evil. Then I get to the church. And I'm like, that ain't true. At all. That is the farthest thing, listen, I never said this on in, anywhere out loud, but I'm gonna say it now. The worst I've ever been treated in my life is by black people, Scott. Ever. Like, when I was in the Navy, and I was 18, 19, and I went to boot camp, And I got out of boot camp and went to Pensacola. I was a roommate with a black guy. And guess what that black guy did? Stole my car, stole my wallet, and trashed it.

Literally. He got kicked out of the Navy for it. While I was stationed in New Orleans. Guess who stole from me and tried to take advantage of me? Black people. My whole life I've been surrounded by, once I left South Georgia, white people who've been over backwards for me. They didn't care I was white, black, or so on and so forth.

So race, I would say, no. But here's the deal about race in the church. I see it from a different lens than a lot of people because, I'm a black dude, right? I'm a 6'6 black dude as well. And sometimes people look at me and they're like, I don't know what this dude is going to do. He's huge. But are we intimidated?

Are we? In the church, do we look at certain race? And this is not a white or black thing, but just certain races of people. One of the biggest, in a different way, yes, that is a true statement. One of the greatest thing, this is the first congregation that I've been to where we have embraced culture without sacrificing our morals when it comes down to our God.

Scott Beyer: , what do you mean by that?

Buck Barrett: Like I give you an example There was I'm not gonna tell you what country she's from because she may be embarrassed So I would just say there's a lady Who had this coffee from her culture and she lived in Africa, and she's been in the United States for a number of years, but she's, she loves her country's colors and so on and so forth.

And what's wrong with that, right? She's not saying this is better than God. She's this is where I'm from. It's almost like me wearing a Georgia, sweatshirt. What's wrong with that, right? She had this ceremony that she did like this is how we traditionally drink coffee in our country And we want you guys to try it I know for a fact that there are congregations who's no, we're not gonna do that But our Congress yeah, bring the coffee We want to try it and we went through there and it wasn't anything about religion It was like this is how we have elders in our And our custom, setting and so on and so forth.

And this is how we drink the coffee and this is how we eat with each other. And this is what we eat. And when we went through that whole thing, everybody was like, this is awesome. I never knew that you guys did this in your culture. I just know that. We're afraid to do that for some reason.

Like I I just don't know.

Scott Beyer: Now for clarification, we're not talking about on a Sunday morning. This is like at somebody's house or

So she just introduced a bunch of other Christians to something, In her culture and everybody like was on board with

Buck Barrett: Yeah, and what I'm my point is I've never seen that before Everybody puts their culture in the backseat and it's like we just got to sit here You know be straight up and down and so on and so forth. If your culture doesn't compromise the gospel. Let's talk about it let's be involved and what that does is and that gives me back to my original point I have been super over the top exposing people to my culture.

This is how black people see this. This is how black people see that. We have a sister around church right now who will come up to me and say, Hey, I was looking at this on the news and I want to know your perspective. She was almost every week. So I want to know your perspective. I want to know how do black people see this?

And I'll say, Oh, let me tell you about that. And we'll talk. She was like, Oh, I had no idea. Now when I go do this and that, I'll have a different perspective. Why don't we do that? Why don't we embrace that instead of just still forming it? And because there's a lot of people Who look at there's a lot of black people in the church And this is exactly why you have black congregations white congregations hispanic congregations Asian congregations so on and so forth when we're all passing each other to get to The congregation that we like the reason why is because we're afraid to talk about where we're from We're afraid to talk about what we've done We're afraid to talk about all those things and so we're more comfortable with worship with people that look like us Not not in our congregation, but i'm just saying there's a lot, there's a lot of

Scott Beyer: oh, yeah, it definitely happens for sure

Buck Barrett: and it's And I think that it's that color.

It is that, I don't know who cares? If we really believe that it doesn't matter, then who cares? And I know me and you don't live that way. We're like, I know you are all people, Scott, there's not a racist bone in your body. I know it for a fact. If anybody's wondering, if Scott Byer has a racist bone in his body, listen to me.

The man doesn't have a racist bone in his body. Not . He doesn't have a racist hair on his head. But my point is, a lot of people don't know that there are certain bias that are in the church that people don't recognize. They don't even know that they're doing it. And they're not racist, it's just they're a little afraid to accept other cultures.

And if we did We would know how to evangelize better. We would know what makes a certain group of people tick what makes them, twitch a little bit. We would know how to communicate with different cultures. And if we did that, I think we will be better, but instead we just only learn about us.

And that's what we're only effective around people that look like us, if that makes any sense.

Scott Beyer: No, it makes total sense and yeah, I'd like to think that i'm not racist I don't think I am but I also think that i'm like everybody else You are, sometimes you're so afraid of sounding racist that you won't talk or ask a question. It's I love that you have this sister who will go, Hey, I want your perspective on this thing going on in the news as a black person.

Because that's actually embracing our differences. Seeking to understand each other, which Proverbs talks all about that, that if we're really going to love each other, we need to understand each other. And I can't understand you if I don't ask questions. And sometimes I think it's, people go, if I ask anything, I might come across as racist.

So I'm just, I'm not going to, I'm not going to ever talk about it. We're going to pretend that there aren't differences. And we're going to pretend that, we all come from the same cultural background and we just don't. We don't. And that's true not just with race, but that's also true with other things as well.

If you grew up in a city environment, if you grow up in a big city, a New York, an Atlanta, Chicago, and then you talk to somebody who grew up in a rural environment, totally different worldview. Totally different world view. And you wouldn't understand each other if you don't talk about it.

Buck Barrett: Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Scott? I know this is your show, but I want to ask you a question. Cause I, why don't, do you think we spend enough time with each other outside of the building, outside of the church building as Christians? And if we don't, then what is the reason for that?

Scott Beyer: In general, I would say we don't. I, my, this is just my opinion. I think there are some Christians that you could talk to and say, yeah, that Christian does. But in general, I don't think we do. And the reasons that we don't, I think are one reason is we live in a a culture that praises busyness.

We're pathologically busy. So if I'm busy, I'm successful. So I'm busy with this thing and I'm busy with that thing. And we're always going. And, if you look back in the Old Testament, there was room for Sabbath. There was room for rest. And what do you do on those days of rest?

You're not working. You're not busy. You can worship God and you can spend time with people. That's a bit, basically what you can do. In the Old Testament, on Sabbath, we don't really have those anymore, and we're and so that's like its own conversation, but there's a need, I think, for us to stop being so pathologically busy.

Another is the tech. It's not technology's fault, but it makes it really easy to have the feeling that you are having relationships with people without actually having those relationships. So you have Instagram friends, you have and connect even with celebrities on things like TikTok and you feel like you have these relationships with people, but they're not real relationships.

So that's another aspect to it. And so you stop flexing the muscle of being able to have face to face conversation. So one of the things if you go to John's. Letters. One of the, one of the things he'll say in third John is there's a guy there that is actually, he's a problem in the church. His name is Diatrophes and he's causing problems.

And John as an apostle wrote this letter to another Christian there and says, Hey, look, you just, I'm very much paraphrasing, but you just keep doing the right thing. But someday I'm hoping to show up and I'll speak to him face to face. And that's also true with Paul when he had a problem. It says, I opposed him to his face.

There's something about face to face communication that's Of a higher caliber than writing a letter or even a phone call or so face to face makes a difference. It's the same reason that you said, I wish we were sitting in the living room together sharing a cup of coffee. I can see your face. We can still talk, but it's still not as good as being in the same room.

And so there's a higher quality to face in person communication, but it's also harder. It's, And so when you don't flex that muscle, you get in the habit of not doing it and it's easier to stay out of that habit. But to your point of what you're talking about, the need for it in the church is huge, right?

Because that's where you get real relationships and real connections. And when the wheels fall off your life, which happens to all of us at different times, Your TikTok relationships ain't gonna cut it. No, they won't. And you need the real ties to people, and I think there's an evangelistic opportunity with that too, right?

Because how many people in your life would drive 15 hours to talk to you about something?

Buck Barrett: Amen.

Scott Beyer: But your brother did, and that made an impression. Even when you were not in the mood to hear it, you couldn't deny he'd driven 15 hours.

Buck Barrett: deny it.

Scott Beyer: And when you're willing to be, have a real inconvenient relationship with people, because that's the truth, it's inconvenient to do things in person when everything is over your phone now, right?

It's more inconvenient to talk on the phone than it is to send a text. But the problem is those text messages don't have a lot of depth to them. So if you'll inconvenience yourself, there's evangelistic opportunities, there's opportunities to make the church stronger, for us to embrace our differences, learn from each other.

All of these things are, this is where memories are made. I can't tell you how many times I have told people the story of me coming over to your house and us Butcher and chickens there was nothing convenient about that day for us, for you or for me But that's how you that's how you make memories, right?

Buck Barrett: Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with you. And it saddens me a little bit too, Scott, because there's so much. We have a lifelong friendship. I pray to God that we'll have a, spiritual friendship that lasts forever. But that was made not by sitting on the phone, right?

That was made by personal interaction. Me talking to your wife and you talking to my wife and them talking to each other and our kids and so on and so forth. That's how it happens and I think in the church, brother, that you hit the nail on the head. We are way too comfortable. With let's just pick up the phone.

Let's just send a text message. And I would even argue to say that the damage of that is immense in certain areas, because certain conversations you cannot have over the phone and you cannot have via text message. You need to say, brother, I'm coming to see you. Let's talk about this face to face. And we have that tremendous tool in our tool bag, but for some reason, And I know the reason you said it.

We live in a society, especially in this country, where busy is the flavor of the day, right? We have to be, and I'm glad you said that and I'm glad I heard your answer because it gives me the confidence to say, no, let's just, what are you doing right now? I'm going to drive over.

And if I can do that personally then, maybe I can spark a little change because we get together in our group. I'm not saying that we don't. I'm just saying that I wish we get together more for sure. 

Scott Beyer: Yeah And I think a lot of that too starts at the personal level like what would happen if you just Do a thought experiment if every Christian said not I'm not even gonna say every week I'm just gonna say once a month. Once a month, every Christian said, I'm going to intentionally make sure I spend time.

Like quality time with other Christians. Am I going to have them over the house or we're going to, maybe I don't have a space where I can have them over, but I can, we can still pick a place to go together. We can do something together and meet at this place and spend time with our families.

Moms make play dates with their kids and stuff all the time. We do the same sort of thing. What if we did it once a month? The end result of that is that's 12 times. You did that 12 times a year. That's 12 more than you were doing before. And those 12 touch points with different Christians, they add up.

And over time, that's how you build a relationship. And it's also look, my wife and I last year was our 25th wedding anniversary. And so our

Buck Barrett: Congratulations, brother.

Scott Beyer: man. Yeah. It, so it's a milestone, right? And so we started the year, we knew it was coming in, in, in 2024. And so we said what do we want to do for our, silver wedding anniversary.

And what we decided is the big thing we want to do is we were going to have a year of dates. So once a month we went on a date. So that's in my marriage, right? The, arguably the most important relationship with a human being that I'll have, aside from my relationship with God, the most important relationship I have with my wife.

So once a month we would have a date where we would go out, just the two of us, sometimes they were more complicated and we would do something, a little more extravagant, but most of the time it was just like one of us would pick a restaurant, we would go there, take our time. No kids, just us.

And at the end of the year, we said, We both said we're going to do that again this year, right? Because we noticed it made it a tangible difference in our life So if that's true in a marriage like that's true in every relationship, right? So I say that to say once a month goes a lot further than what you think

Buck Barrett: Yeah. Because we do have a lot in common with our brothers and sisters in Christ. And if we could just, like you said, if it's once a month, man. We do see each other on Sundays, right?

Scott Beyer: sure.

Buck Barrett: so if we just added that other touch point, like you said, then we could do a lot of good with that. So much good that you never know.

And I say this all the time too. You're gonna find out the most about a person not at the church building. You're gonna find out the most about a person and when you're sitting down talking to them, no distractions across from them, and they say, oh yeah, I've been dealing with this. And it's what? I didn't know that.

And that's when you're able to say I was dealing with this a while ago too. Let me tell you what I did to get through it and so on and so forth. And that is a bond that you will have. It's like fibers in a rope, man. It's like the rope is, can be as strong as it can possibly be. But if you start to lose fibers, Like each little individual thread starts to tear, enough of them, the rope is going to break.

And I believe that's why congregations split and fall out and have trouble, is because the fibers aren't strong. And they start to tear. And we build those fibers by what you said, once a month. Let's get together. That's something I'll take with me, put in my tool bag, that I'll advocate for in our group because I think it's important.

And that's something that's been on my mind a lot because I know how beneficial it is. It's just, we need to be able to do it. And you hit the nail on the head with the culprit. We're too busy. We're too busy sometimes to raise our kids. We're too busy to nurture our marriages. We're too busy to study.

We're too busy to do all of those things. We're just busy.

Scott Beyer: Yeah, and then at the end of the week we've been busy But the things that actually matter didn't get any attention. That's the thing that concerns me is, will I get to the end of my life and here my body's in a casket somewhere. Who's going to, who's going to be at the funeral?

The people who are going to be at the funeral are not going to be the company that you worked for. They're not going to show up. It's going to be your family and your friends. That's who's going to be there. What percentage of my life did I put into those family and friends? And if they're getting the smallest portion of my life and time, I'm doing it wrong.

Buck Barrett: Yeah, that's a good point. Who's gonna be at your funeral? And although those people that you work with may show up, they're going to be sitting in the back. And they're not going to have any, they're not going to be doing any speaking. They're not going to be writing any memorials. They're going to be showing up out of respect.

The people that you're closest to are going to be showing up to mourn. And that is a big difference. I never thought about it like that. See, that's why we talk, like I've already thought about five or six sermons. Just based off of you saying that because you're right. I mean you're exactly right it what you said there.

Scott Beyer: This is how preachers think, right? It's everything we think in terms of sermons. Oh, that's about four sermons right there. That was a four sermon conversation.

Buck Barrett: it was Yeah, that is how we think you can't help it man.

Scott Beyer: Yeah. No, you can't. One of the reasons that I think that I like you so much and you and I are such good friends is, I don't think of you as a, and I hope this doesn't sound bad.

I don't think of you as a preacher. I think of you as Buck, right? The preaching is just an extension of who you are, of loving people and loving Jesus and wanting to tell people about Jesus. I appreciate you and all the work you're doing and just who you are. Love your family man, and yeah, thanks for taking a little bit of time to, to talk to me about your life and how you became a Christian and how you continue to touch a lot of lives. 

You keep doing what you're doing and and we'll talk later.

Buck Barrett: Alright bro, take it easy man. Thank you.

Scott Beyer: You too.

As always, thank you for listening and hopefully we've done something to help make your life a little bit better.  If you have a chance to rate, review or share the podcast it would be a blessing.  By sharing with others or leaving a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, you help us reach more people.

Next week, I can’t wait for you to meet my friend, Buck Barrett.  Buck is one of the most vibrant and engaging people I know.  Buck works for the FAA and is an evangelist in Western Washington.  Buck and his wife Ashley are amazing people, with big hearts for people, and an amazing story.

I mentioned at the end of last season, that I was revamping my website.  An update that was LONG overdue.  A special thanks to Brady Cook and Diakonos Marketing for bringing BibleGrad.com into the modern era!  If you are interested, you can sign up for a video series challenge through the website called the #HopeDoes challenge.  Two short videos each week and a chance to grow in your hope by doing hopeful things.  Just go to BibleGrad.com, scroll down and enter your email to get started.

Or maybe you have a fun or obscure history account, a feel-good news story, or a riveting scientific fact you think could help us love better.  If so, I’d love to hear it!  Feel free to email me at scott@biblegrad.com 

And if you are ever in the Louisville, KY area, I’d like to invite you to come worship with me and my family at the Eastland congregation.  We meet for worship every Sunday and have Bible classes for all ages on Wednesdays, too.  If you want more information about Eastland, visit us at eastlandchristians.org.  We would love to worship God with you and help you on your walk of faith.

And as always, until next time, “Remember, you are loved, so go… love better.”    

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Buck Barrett: Now we're going to another biblical principle that I didn't mean that, I, there's certain people that I talk to, right? Like I'll talk to you. I'll talk to a couple of people in my congregation that I'll talk to, right? And the conversation always turns spiritual, right?

Always, right? So to your point this is a prime example where you're talking about boys forgetting things. The wife sometimes will look at me and say, There's something wrong with this boy that she'll say, there's something wrong with him. I want to put my hands on him. I was like, nope, he's exactly what you just said. Nope, he's just being stupid. Just leave him alone. He's just going through boy And you need that practical experience. From another dad. From a dad being, there and present and that's another symptom of We've departed from the pattern of what God has said things to be because a dad will recognize It's nothing wrong with him.

He's just been an idiot today, right?

Scott Beyer: I know. Oh man. Again, like that's exactly what happens around our house too. Sometimes Jenna will look at me, like one of the boys will do something. She's is that normal? And I go, oh yeah that's normal. She goes, how is that normal? I go, it's, it comes with a Y chromosome. I don't know what to tell you.

We just do dumb stuff, 

Buck Barrett: all the time.

Scott Beyer: Yeah. But it's also. What makes each gender special, right? There's, my boys, I can guarantee, I don't know what they're doing out in the snow right now, but I can guarantee what they're doing is something that is like testing their limits.

Buck Barrett: Yes.

Scott Beyer: big of a hole can I dig?

How big of a snowball can I make? How deep can we dig this? Whatever. Can I climb this tree? And if Jenna looks out the window, she will see them doing something that's on the edge of, dangerous. And that's the edge that they, I want them to live on. I don't want them to do anything that's irreversible, right?

I think that's where parenting comes in is when your kid starts testing boundaries that could get them in real trouble. But on the other hand, when they're testing their limits, trying to figure out who they are, trying to figure out what they can do, then that's part of being a man is you've got to.

Deal with some threat, deal with some danger, test your own strength. And if our boys don't do that, they don't grow up to be men and they don't know how to protect their wives. They don't know how to watch over the kids and be the, serve and protect leader that they ought to be.

And back, looping around to what you originally said with video games, that's one of my concerns with video games is that it feeds the sense of achievement the boys want. You beat the level, you got the upgrade to your armor you get the sense of facing the dragons and the dangers, but without any of the real work.

It's not actually hard.

Buck Barrett: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Beyer: and real life is actually hard.

Buck Barrett: Yeah. I liked

Scott Beyer: And that's what I worry about.

Buck Barrett: about pushing things to the limit. And I'll talk to my son about this all the time. I said, do you think that every decision that I've made as your dad, or every move that we've made as a family or anything That there was a roadmap and there was like I turned to this page in this book called life And the instructions say when you get to this point you do this i'm like No, like it doesn't happen that way you have to be comfortable as a man leading your family Going into situations that you've maybe never been in before You know it's best for you based off of all the evidence, right?

And you, to your point, you test that out as a little boy. You know what? I'm going to get on this sled and go down this hill. And it looks dangerous. But we're going to go for it, right? And a little boy can't be told no, don't do that all the time. A little boy has to be allowed to explore that and get away with some scrapes from users because that's how they build real confidence.

To your point, not video game confidence, but real confidence. I totally agree