Dilemmas and Deficiencies - The Dragonpit Podcast, Episode 3, Season 3

Conquering King’s Landing with fire and blood was the easy part; in Episode 3, Rhaenyra Targaryen learns that sitting on the Iron Throne means drowning in a sea of empty coffers, starving smallfolk, and deep political betrayal.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey there, lords and ladies. Welcome to the Dragon Pit. Uh we are one man down this week because he had a uh a new family member arrive that he made himself.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Congratulations, Peter.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Well, Peter's one.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

And Maggie. More importantly, Maggie. Unlike many of the childbirths on House of the Dragon, everything was successful, and we are grateful that he's taking the night off.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

We are we're excited to get him back, but uh we wish him Godspeed in this new journey.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

He always dragged us down, anyways. Um I want to say at the top, and we forget to do this, there we are not gonna spoil anything beyond this episode. Right. So as long as you are caught up with episode three of season three, please keep watching.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

We might hint, but we're never gonna spoil.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

But also, we're pretty far from the books, but we don't spoil. We're not a spoiler, we're a spoiler, oh conscious group of people. Correct. All right. So Rainier's having a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Well, what do you think of the cold open? Our first cold open of the season. I noticed that right away.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, it was um it like jumped.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I thought I had more time and it jumped right in, and I had to double back from uh my snack because it was letting it play.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, we see Damon showing up uh to the high tower army. He's got his dragon, two other dragons, which we should all remember that Aegon the Conqueror conquered all of Westeros with just three dragons, so he feels pretty cocky, not even wearing any armor, just stroll on up to Ormond, and Ormond says he lay down his arms. I mean, in my head, I'm like, this is a society based on honor. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

And real dirty pull with a high towers.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Real dirty pull. And it is um, yeah, I mean, I I think it is a dirty trick that isn't gonna go over well with other people in Westeros.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Uh I also just not only was the the deception there at the very beginning, uh, just outright like, okay, you're showing you're not Man of Honor, whatever. Like for lack of Damon might be an asshole, but he wouldn't do that. He wouldn't lay down his sword uh and and and say we surrender it just uh right totally immediately.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Damon would definitely Damon definitely would not.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

But it was just too damn easy.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Well, and okay, I mean, shouldn't there have been a sign when the dragon didn't come along?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

That I mean, you have three dragons. Like, why wouldn't you escort why would they leave a dragon just hanging out? Yeah, like, oh, you guys are my sworn enemies, yeah, you've given up to us. We're gonna take his rider, but we're not gonna take the dragon. That didn't make any freaking sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Like, yeah, particularly when you literally just got your dragons because random people could figure out how to fly them, correct? And you're just gonna leave this weapon of mass destruction in the hands of the greens and be like, cool, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And he knew from the beginning, he says it multiple times, you gotta kill the kid. Yeah, so like, yeah, why would you not take the dragon with you to perhaps pair with another rider? It is it was it was too easy. I don't know if dragons was like go with you, but right, but if but they need to do something, he should have had Darren mount the dragon and escort him back to King's Landing into the dragon pit.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

You know what I just thought of? He should have had, I mean, this uh the title of this entire story is A Dance of the Dragons. Um, was that novella that George R. Martin wrote? Why don't they have the other dragons kill that dragon? Right. Like we're killing dragons now. They we killed Melee's, like, why not kill Tessareon?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

In front of him, yeah. In front of him, you have three big ass dragons, it just doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I don't know if this is just like a plot hole or Damon's hubris, which we're gonna get into later, but like it just seemed kind of like we missed something.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

The cold open was the last bit of uh uh nerve induce, the not a nerve-inducing uh mix during this thing. I I think that this episode alone will win the Emmy for audio.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean the music I like the first thing I wrote in my notes, music is odd.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Uh it was odd. It I felt like the ringing gave me uh like a little bit of tinnitus. I thought it was like, oh, this is intentional. It's showing the unnerving of it. I think the this is not a fun rewatch episode, but I thought it was a good episode as a whole. Yeah. But it was because of what they did with the audio mixing that put the viewer on edge from beginning to end.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, totally. I think um it really like sets a horror scene. Like it felt like you were watching a horror movie and that like something was gonna jump out at you at all times.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

But uh yeah, it it raised it raised the nerves subconsciously, and I I think it raised the stakes.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Okay, so we um oh uh before we move on from the cold open, I like that he teased it as like Ulf, wouldn't you want to be the Lord of Old Town?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Um I thought that was a good move and a bad move because I don't think that Ulf understands that that wasn't a real thing. Like that Ulf.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, that's a good point. I yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I would like to. But it does put it does put notions in Ulf's head.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Exactly. It's it's uh it was a rare bad play for Damon who doesn't understand No, I mean we've already said Damon's a bad manager. Well, yes, he just doesn't understand the ignorance of his staff. Like he's like because he's a bad manager.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

He is a bad manager. Okay, so then we get over to King's Landing, and Reneera's, you know, telling Damon like the air is thick with ghosts, um, which we're gonna see some ghosts throughout here, and and she's really just trying to uh justify her father's faith, but also get to the coronation, and she is very eager for that coronation.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

I I also I I thought that was a very telling thing that she was all on board, like, hey, we gotta do these things right proper. And Damon's like, well, we gotta let's begin. And like I thought the the the the way the ringing pitch stopped when he said let's begin and then he moved on. It's like again, I'm very impressed with the audio of this uh this episode.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Better than the audio of the dragon pit from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, and again, uh we're uh we're on a budget, we're not sponsored. If you want to sponsor us, uh reach out. Uh we make tens of dollars, so love to smell.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Um okay, so then we kind of get to the small council, which has gotten increasingly small. Um, and they find out she's not gonna have a coronation because there isn't any money left, and problems are mounting quickly.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

They've been robbed, and I I know we're gonna disagree on this, but I more and more cannot stand Missaria, the mistress mistress of whisperers.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Like, I just think she gives bad advice.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

It's no, you don't think I mean Missaria, I like Missaria. Like, she's definitely uh like a little bit of a socialist, but she's a little bit of the socialist, like it's a little too much. It's well, okay. Like I think that Reneera later in the episode has a point. Like, she has to figure out how to rule this city before she can rule everyone else. And Missaria's trying to like help her with appearances, but which I just disagree.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

I I'm I'm in in Damon's camp with this. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I'll say something bad about Masaria.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

She's gotten real fancy clothes all of a sudden. Like social, too. Like when you rise to the uh uh yeah, she's yeah, she's got her finery on. Like she's a girl who loves a handmade strong dress.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, I will say that uh uh the one good move I thought um that was done by uh Renera was the small council leaving them.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is a problem because she doesn't have people to now do these things, and even like Luther, Sir Luther, is he a knight? Yeah, uh no, he's not he's Captain Luther, we'll call him. Um is like, you know, I can't really be your Queen's car. Like I'm in charge of running this city. And I was thinking to myself, you know, all the gold cloaks are in here with her, they're not out there.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

If Messaria is so worried about the people, why isn't she restoring order for the people?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah. But it's because she doesn't Rainier doesn't have any people.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

And it's it's the the argument of vanity versus legitimacy that they try to make. It's like it has to I think Renero is was correct, like it has to be both. Like you can't you can't do it hastily. If you don't do it the proper way, then the people aren't gonna take you seriously. Yeah, and I think that's that's where we sit uh with uh the small council right now. And the only person that is actually stepping up to the plate is Damon again, and when he when he realizes like, well, Eamon's gone, Baker's gone, we don't know where they're at, we don't even have uh Crispin uh on the map right now. Nobody's even thinking about them, which which is I think a gross misstep.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

But yeah, they've only got I mean a small council typically like for instance Viserys never had a master of whispers, which is the role Masaria is playing here, although she's playing many roles, and then you've got Corlus, who's hand of the king, queen, and then Amund, or sorry, Damon. Who's um I don't know what his king regent, I think is yeah, but like not a technical role. She should have a master of laws, a master of coin, a master of war. Like she's missing a lot of cabinet posts here.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

She doesn't even have rat catchers. She doesn't have rat catchers. Which I did think it was a little I thought it was it was well done, like the cutaways to the rats and and and uh the the trivial things coming up. It's like we're running out of tallow to make the candles before being in darkness.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah. I mean, you must have those. I have these days all the time where it's like you can barely get done with one task before you have another 80 tasks ahead of you.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, it was it was a real uh the episode itself showed a real burden of the crown. It was a heavy lies the crown today. And she just kept one thing would come one after the another, and she couldn't she was underwater. She was underwater, she couldn't catch her breath. Yep. And it was trivial things, but again, like if she would have people around her or she would just make the decision to appoint people. And I felt like she did a lot of bad decision making in this episode, personally.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, but but we agree that she should have left those losers behind.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Talking on both sides of her mouth, yeah, like the guys back in King's uh back on Dragonstone didn't do her any favors.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

No, they did not.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

She needs the she needs to get her house in order.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

She needs her own people. Yep. Okay, should we I feel like this is early in the episode, but we're still gonna I think we should go for it now. So our question for the night, which we like to do now, is like our pool from all of the Westeros universe. If you could only have three people on your small council in all of Game of Thrones, who would you pick?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

You want me to go first?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Yeah, I want you to say one, I'm gonna say one, then you're gonna say one.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

I think the obvious choice is uh look a guy like Ned Stark. Ned Stark would be my uh one of one pick.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Why?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Uh one that he's extremely loyal. I think loyalty really matters uh at the end of the day. Um you you hear bickering among other people, but um if he's there for you, he's there for the right reasons, and so that's why I pick him as my one-on-one.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

So um I knew you would pick Ned, partially because you're just a Ned fan. And as you told me, but the rest of them we have to be.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

I'm a V fan, so he's I get it.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I actually would pick Rob Stark because I think you get the loyalty that you get with Ned, but Rob actually was very skilled in warfare. Rob outsmarted Tywin Lannister, he won these battles. Yeah, he like had a problem when he married the wrong woman, but like I think Rob is actually a better tactician than Ned. Okay. So he's gonna be my sort of daemon, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Okay, who's your number two?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

My number two, uh, if I'm going for uh Missario Mastress of Whispers, and I'm gonna pick a woman because I I want a I want women on my council. Um, I'm gonna go with Olena Tyrell. Okay. Like she was always so cunning. She always knew, like, she knew more than Varys did. And I think Varys, which is another good legendary master of whispers, um, would still get outsmarted sometimes by Olena. I mean, she orchestrated Joffrey's death. She also, because right now she really needs somebody who's good with money. Elena like got Tywin to pay for the entire wedding. She was really smart with, you know, trickery, figuring out where the money is, where the power is. And she, I think, would be a very good mistress of whispers.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Uh, for my person, and that well, I wouldn't put him in that spot. I would do uh Sir Arthur Dane. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

You're going, you're going brawn over brains.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Well, I wouldn't say that at all. I think that he is brains, because I think he again, uh some something in my life, and I think something in a lot of people's life is uh he he was loyal. He was not only a friend, he was a confidant. Yep. And Ned is more like the father figure uh in this scenario, and Sir Arthur Dane, even though they they clashed, uh they did it out of a righteous cause on both sides, and they didn't begrudge each other. Uh and I think that somebody likes Sir Arthur Dane of having uh ride or die, having your best friend with you is is uh one of the things that I was saying he'd be my best friend, but I'd I'd hope he'd be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, of course you'd yeah, you'd want to do your best friend.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

And then my final pick, uh I was uh I was debating between two people, and it was uh Brendan Rivers, uh, who we see as the three eyed raven. Um he served his hand to the king during the fire rebellions. Um in the other one, it was uh Tywin Lannister.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah, yeah, I thought about Tywin too. But I was thinking about Shush Lex. When I was thinking about um Elena, I was like, hmm, Tywin would Tywin Tywin is like Alena with uh as a man.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Right. Uh but I was I I went with my final pick uh between those two was uh Brendan Rivers, and the reason why is because he was not only like a brilliant tactician um that that kept his brother's head from being a spike from the Blackfires that were at the time truly, if you get into the lore of of of this universe, uh they weren't winning. And and he was able to turn the tides, and he was uh he's like the original OG master or whatever. So he built the network as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, he is. I mean he is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

He thought of he used magic too. All the all the angles and he used magic, and he had he had blood magic from the Targaryen. So I think that uh those would be my three. Who would be your last?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Um, not Lexington, who is so annoying right now. Um uh oh, I actually wanted to pick someone from House of the Dragon. I think Lionel Strong was an amazing hand of the king. Yep. Like Lionel Strong always gave really good political advice. He understood the political realities, he knew how to um, you know, like get people to agree with each other, but he also understood all the jobs. He had the master of coin job, the master of law job, and the hand of the king. And so I think he is sort of a, you know, what is it, like a switch hitter? Like he can play a bunch of positions.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Utility player.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

A utility player, yeah. You can tell my sports knowledge is a little rough. Um but he could do the switch hitter? I don't know, yeah. Sure. Um anyway, he I think did like the realm would have fallen into chaos a lot quicker had he not served uh Viserys very loyally for many years.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

So as always, we uh would love your feedback. So go ahead and drop us a uh comment and a follow um both on our Spotify, YouTube, Apple, and RSS feed.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

And we'll we'll maybe get Peter's picks, but you know, last time we were a little skeptical of his.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And he has his own little uh Joe Rogan universe, and they all voted for him. So I was a little frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Anyway, okay, so when Rhenira doesn't really know what to do, she goes to see Alison because you know, why not go see your bestie who you have now um imprisoned in Magor's Holdfast with her daughter?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Um she should have never listened to Alison. She listens to Alison on a couple different things. She listens to Alison on on lying about Aon being dead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

She seeks a council on. It's so frustrating because she's like, Well, before you killed my father, and you're like, before you married my father, right? Like you, if we're gonna talk about wrongs against fathers, then the girl code, you did that first.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

You have one grandson down, I have two sons down now. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Like, I am she and for her to be like, so you want me to lose my son is so rich.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Right. It's like, yeah, you lost you lost.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I have lost even if you don't lose who air, like my firstborn children and uh and my stillborn baby. I've lost three sons in a matter of days, and you have the audacity to tell me that I should save your sons.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I thought it was it was uh pretty brilliant that they had the actor that put Jace walk through the hall.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

And that that's the ghost, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, battle her, like somebody that looks very familiar, and it just shows that uh again, paired with the the audio and the music uh of the thing, how uh on edge she was, and like she's seeing things and she's not clear, she's not thinking clearly, and uh that's obvious because she keeps going to Alison.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, what did you think of Alison's advice about um it's just declare Aegon dead?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I like the high priest did poked a lot of holes on it right away. Yeah, you didn't have the sisters come, you didn't have a body, we don't know any of this. And at the end of the day, like just saying that your rival is dead doesn't make it true. Yeah, and even if he is burnt badly, like if he comes back, like there there are gonna people that know him.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, this goes also to like the fact that Renera really doesn't have anyone giving her advice that she is just gonna turn around right away and tell the lie that Allison told her to tell the Hysepton.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

It's like you got you're you're getting led to slaughter with this. Yeah, yeah. Why why would she give me bad advice? I don't know. Why would she give that advice?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Like, come on, and like this whole childhood friends like that's so tired at this point. Like, just stop. And then, you know, Ernira goes to see the Hi Septon who is not gonna anoint her. I mean, that she has everything the High Septon hates. Like I mean, I know we've talked a little bit about this. Yeah, and that like there's a grand conspiracy throughout the Game of Thrones universe that like the Maesters and the High Septon hate the Targaryens, they hate dragons, they are always trying to kill all of the magic in the world.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Like they're endangered servants to this because they they don't believe in magic or they don't want magic to exist because it undercuts their authority. I mean, if I was if I was her, I would have just taken the Septon's head. Yeah and been done with it. Yeah, um, because okay, you can't anoint me. And he threatens her, he straight out threatens her and goes, uh yeah, like don't lose the faith of the people.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Lose the faith, like the faith, don't make an enemy of the faith, I think is what she says. And I mean, we see Cersei did that in season five, and you know, didn't work out well for her.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Like, let's not empower these guys to uh like if if they are getting too high, you have dragons, you have the ultimate deterrent, you just took Otto's head. Yep. Take a couple more.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

And the faith of the seven is very patriarchal. Like they do not want women in charge, they don't allow women to become maesters.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

They think though women's places in the home, like for you charge them with blasphemy for anointing the wrong king and say there is a you find a new one.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, yeah. I I I mean, I don't know why. I mean, it was again bad advice, bad counsel. Um, then she goes to dinner with Corless and Adam and Alan.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I mean, this is uh this reminds me of uh the worst dinner party you could possibly think of going to. Like you you just you signed up for it like three months in advance and you can't cancel you like didn't know where you're gonna be at.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah, like you've come up with every other excuse.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

This isn't even the worst dinner she has in this episode. Like it leads off like it's a terrible dinner party. Yeah. And it has Adam and Alan said they're like, Thank you for letting us uh be here, and ends with like Well I mean what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 21:53

We can talk about this more when we talk about Corlus, but like it just g it just reminds me of when. And Viserys goes to talk to Courtless about, you know, betrothing Rhaenera to her son. And like he reaches too far. Like he just always is reaching too far. And Rhaenyra kind of gives like a half promise of like, you know, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Um, and then Yeah, no, that sounds good. Like, yeah, why don't you just say when this is done and we have the claimants are done, I will raise them up.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Well, the other thing is she walks out into the hall and sees Bela. Like Corless just forgets about his granddaughter, and Rhaenyra is feeling a little bit, you know, like she's a woman who's denied her rights.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Because he, I mean, he he doesn't like his granddaughters because they're the seeds of Damon.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah, but like, I don't know. I just think that he doesn't know his granddaughters very well because he's been gone and he doesn't feel this like guilt. I mean, Corlis is such a deadbeat dad for him to like show up several years after everybody else in his life has died.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Hey kids, uh, I I don't have this family to go to anymore, but I got you seasoned tickets.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah, also it's like yeah, also like we accidentally did burn down all of your inheritance, and we have nothing left to give you, but I'll try to get you legitimized.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

It's he by basically robbing my granddaughter of her birthright.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Right. Uh and then and then he but then again, as we're shooting on Coreless, he goes back and he's like the only one that kind of sees through the mess that she's making when she goes and holds court, which is uh yeah, which is I'll let you get into it because I don't I don't have to deal with the Mincies, but uh I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah, so then she's the next day she calls she can't sleep, she calls the name's bed. The next day she has to get up and sit to throne. I mean, I like don't particularly like you know, I like that Alinda's back. Alinda was always a really strong character. I really like that Alinda's there and like she's finally got like one person who is in her, she knows she's had her camp for her, yeah, and nobody else. Yeah, and you know, Alinda as a massey, actually, Alinda is a highborn woman, and then she was kicked out of her servitude by Varys or Laris. Yeah, Laris. Yep. Um, and so she's back and she's giving her good advice. Like, you know, put the crown on, maybe don't put the sword on.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, don't don't threaten your people.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Like, yeah, like isn't that exactly what you said?

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Last night, yeah. Last time you were there with a sword, you took a dude's head. So like maybe we're not do the sword this time.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And so I will say, I don't really want to go into the fact that she's menstruating, but I think the only reason I would bring it up is because um in the book, people say that the first time she sat the throne, she bled. And the there's like a picture in the book um that's like cutting her hand.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

But, you know, one could assume maybe like because she is on her menstrual cycle that she's actually bleeding because it's her time of the month and not because she was cut or uh viewed as unworthy by the throne. So the throne, and that's like Viserys is constantly being cut by the throne. Because he was always got those like yeah, he's got back sores and you know, his fingers and he's just scam. It's so gross. And so I think they're trying to make the point, like, oh, she's not actually on worth the throne isn't rejecting her, it's just that she's a woman.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um I mean, we've I mean, Corless, you know, like she goes, Well, what about the Kingswood?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Corless kind of excuse someone. Well, she does come up with some good like she's like, we don't have enough wool because of the sheep, and she's like, Why don't you skin them before you feed them to the dragons? And we're like, Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

And then Boars and um she offers up the boars and things are off limits because Corless says so, but rabbits and squirrels.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Well, I think that's like I think it's a fair point. Um, like Rhaenyra is trying to not be, and we see this with the dinner with the highborn. She is trying to share. She said you have to be good re good stewards of all these resources. And so I think she's thinking to herself, like, look, I've got a huge forest.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

We got a bunch of pigs that we could kill.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And yeah, feral hogs are getting a real problem.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Like, let's tearing up the rhubarb. Yeah, it's just not a good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Why don't you guys just go out there and use that? I mean, I think she's trying to cut and then Gorlis gets very upset about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Well, I also this is uh reason number two this episode that I just hate the white worm. And uh Masario plants a person in the court to come and say, I'm just as guilty as these these high lords.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Oh, you think Sylvie is a Masaria plant?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I think Sylvia's a Masaria plant.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

I think then I didn't I didn't read into it that way, but I think that's a good thing. They are home girls.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

They are home girls and and like the plight of the people, pied of the people, even though I'm guilty of the city. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Interesting. And it it does it's like um when lobbyists plant questions for congressional hearings. Yeah, yeah, I like it. Didn't think of that. Yeah. Oh, that seems to be mighty convenient to the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah, no, uh, that's I didn't I didn't catch that. I I I think that's a good call. Um maybe I am maybe I'll I'll knock Missaria for this. Yeah, maybe just although it's something I do frequently in Congress, so you know, maybe not. Um Missarius is a good lobbyist.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

They uh they so they go back, they have their what is their small council media and again Damon makes the point, like he's are he he's just he sits there and they argue each other. They're they're always bickering, it seems like. And Damon's like, and we're all suffer.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

And I wrote that that same thing down too.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

They were like, uh the point of and again, it's it's uh it's a true vision of what government should do in this world. And Damon's like, we should provide water and security. That's it. We're not supposed to be feeding.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Well, you think that's what the government's supposed to do? Provide water and security?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Well, in this time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Okay, well, bread seems pretty necessary. How long are people gonna live on water and security?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

That's called free market. Okay, and the other point is uh agree to disagree, and then and she responds, uh, what was it? Merit and uh I can't remember. No, meat and fire. That's what so the options are water security is what Damon's for. I'm sorry, it's like meat and fire is what the government's for. Two opposing viewpoints uh of the role of of what what the lordship should provide. Um and then she makes a pithy comment about like a well I've earned my seat at the table. It's like yeah, you're lucky he doesn't chop your head off.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Like if if another movement saw the power of the King's Landing small folk to undermine Amund and Day and Aegon. And so she is believing it because the only time that she's been in charge when something has gone her way.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Do you know who uh do you know who also saw that power? The High Septic and said, I'm for the people, and who who was enriched off of it.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, I think the I think the interesting I mean it's it is so interesting because the the source text here is from Blood and Fire. It's written by Maesters. Of course, it portrays the Maesters as like good people, and you know, the winners write the history, and so they aren't they're not gonna sh show that the High Septon had anything to do with this like unjustness or whatever you want to call it. Um so then they go to knight Ulf and Hugh and Adam and like the world's I mean, other than maybe maybe um dunks dunks knighting, uh haphazard way to knight somebody. Yeah, and I'm like, they're not even gonna, they're just gonna do one tap on each of them. They're like they're supposed to do seven, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

The look on Damon's face when she's like, Alright, do it. I I have to do this.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

I like that. Um she's like, How will you style yourself? And he says Targaryen, and she was like, Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Uh yeah, he's all overreaches, and again, that's why you like careful because like on one hand you're praising him and telling him how great you've come to and you're forcing him to like risk his life every day, right? And the on the other hand, you're like also like treating him like shit, like you think you're the greatest. The beatings will continue tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like and off is just like, oh, damn it. Like I thought I was gonna get a castle. Yeah, yeah. This is what I'm getting.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And Adam then, you know, she calls him out of a hall, and um Which this departs from the books.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

This this departs from the books, like she raises them up.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Not right away, but it is it is a great fashion.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

I don't they don't do this will she, won't she? As as much as they should be.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

It's a little bit different. I mean, I don't we're not doing spoilers. Right. Well it happens after the battle, though, the next battle. Um so then uh uh I also think it's important because they leave and Hugh Hammer comes up to her and says, like, hey, you told me I could bring my wife. She's not here, she's in Tumbleton, and like, can you get us uh like some accommodations? And she says, like, yeah, I'll get you a house on Vicenia's Hill.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Maybe some back pay, some hazard pays.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

And um I think she says, one she says, like, can you just give me a couple days? I'm awash in dilemmas and deficiencies, which I thought was like a very um function.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah, it was it was a good way to say it. Yeah, she's she's seeing that she can't handle this this load.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah. Um so then she says, uh, she tells Captain Luther is what we're calling him. Luther like, let's plan a dinner for the nobles. Um, it's just a little foreshadowing. Then she next goes to see or Alison comes to see her. Right. Um, which I'm like, okay, well, we're just letting this woman walk around the castle now. Like maybe she's undergard.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

She's under guard, and the Queen Dowager comes in and and and asks for the bones. Which is a normal thing. This this is.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, this was what Ned's uh Catelyn Stark asks for Ned and Ned's bones. Um I mean it doesn't really uh like Tyrion actually in Game of Thrones says, like, just return the bones. What are they to you? Like, like just give them a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Just to make you mad.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah, I'm like Joffrey's just being a little brat, and who's like, no, let's just send her bones back. It's fine. Um, and so Rainier agrees to it, and then Renera starts asking her again, like, hey, how'd you set this throne? And Allison tells her it's gonna change her.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

No. No, it's not gonna change her. No.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

You sound like a man who's argued with a five-year-old a lot today.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

That's not gonna happen to me. Like, oh, weird. It's like you you ask for advice and then you immediately reject it in saying that you won't lose yourself. And I in this moment I was like, Allison's like kind of bland it out. Like this, yeah, this sucks. It's a shitty job, like it's not what you think it is. The the trappings of power look great on paper, but when you put uh the rubber to the road, yeah, it it's not all it's not all quartz and bangs.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. And she says, Well, my dad never changed, and Alison like rightly points out, like, yeah, but your dad was a man.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

And like she's like, your dad was Delulu. Yeah, she she hits the line. Your father lived in a world in which he uh lived in a world of his own construction. You and I have never set foot there. Yep. I was like, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah. Like I know who your father was, and your father was not a good ruler. Yeah, like you're in. And that's what she's holding herself to. She's holding herself to this idea of a big thing. Yeah, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. And he's he was never good. Yeah. He was like, he again, the throne found him unworthy. He was always cutting himself, he was sick. And he was he was always in a bad spot because of the position of power that he was in. And he never truly enjoyed it because he could never truly enjoy something that he knew that yeah wasn't becoming of him. And he talks about that at length of like what kind of king will I be um in the earlier earlier seasons, and and it showed it to who he was.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, and um, I think there's um I remember in season two, Alison is holding Rainice hostage after Visheris dies, and even Allison says like he would have been a great country lord. He could have like lived out his days, like fishing and building little his little little models, his little trains, and like which he doesn't even do, he just arranges them and tells them anyway. Like he would have been a good country lord. He was not a good ruler, and Alice knows that, and Rhaenyra still is idolizing him, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

She can't get over the fact that like her dad's her dad, and she'll always put him on that pedestal.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So then Rhaenera, like this little backbone, host this feast with all the the second dinner party. The second dinner party. I I don't know. I think this one is more uncomfortable than the coreless.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Like the core list one was bad, and then this one, like, you thought that dinner party was bad. Let's do another notch. She invites the merchants and the minor lore uh minor nobles. Uh, and this pissed me off. Why? Oh man. So she brings in as a leader, you do you do one thing and one thing only. You don't punch down. And she brings in people that have stolen all the goods, which they bought. They they say in the episode that they purchased all this stuff and then leave any for the small ones. They use their money to buy these things to store for their family and their people because they saw the the issues that were coming because they had foresight, and she feeds them rats.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, but I would have thought you like this was more of like a Damon move than I'm sorry, man. Even Damon's like, that was a good move. Like well, Damon thought it was funny. It is putting them in their place.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

It is saying, like, right, but this you're time. This is the time. And this is what shows in class. Well, it's I would agree the word class is a good word with that. I would also say that it's the time in which you want to enlist people into your causes. Yeah. And right now, you've already demanded that the head of the houses, that even their own castles and palaces, come and pay you tribute. These are all their second brothers, cousins. These are the people that that make King's Landing run.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

And you bring them all into your house, you make you make light of the situation. I wish you would have come to me sooner. Like we know who it reminds me.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

You know what we have is when Daenerys takes Marine and she punishes all the nobles. Um, she like kills a bunch of them. And then what happens? The like um the the rich people fund the rebels. Right. And it is just called uh the anyway Sons of the Harpy. Yeah, Sons of the Harpy, yeah. And like what after she's taken the rich nobles away, and then you know she's like, Oh shit, I shouldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

It gets a lot worse, yeah. And like the one people, one group of people, she already needs people to do the shit that she wants done for. She insults them, yeah, she feeds them rats, and and they're like, You're robbing us. And I was like, Well, you should have shown restraints. Like, I use the the resources at my disposal to make sure my family was in a position not to starve or be ransacked, and now you have the gold cloaks taking not only everything that we have, but again, when we we bring up Damon, Damon's like, yeah, that was a good move for like a hot second. Yeah, a couple weeks. This will buy you two or three weeks. Great. You bought two, three weeks. That's not gonna change the fervor of what's happening in the city as a whole. Like what we need to do is open up our trading lanes and get some more money in here. And I again, I just think it's a giant miscalculation. I think it it uh it undercuts her authority in the end because the one group of people that she punched down on are the one group of people that would have gone out of their way to try to make things better for her.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yeah. Um, before we go on to her conversation with Damon, I enjoyed meeting Torrin Manderly.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

I was wondering if you're gonna bring him up. Love that actor, he's in a bunch of random movies.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah, I thought I thought he was really captivating. Um again, I mean, we do say this all the time. Well, we do say this all the time that uh this is different than the books. Uh Torrin Manderley is not quite here yet. He's not in King's Landing. Um he does have I mean, we'll see if they change his character a lot, but I thought the Manderleys, so the other thing that we should mention is that the Manderley, so the Manderleys are in the north. They're um they're like a port city into the north. They're at the port of the river that leads to the to the north. Yeah, yeah, they are, but they are a really, really rich house. They're very wealthy. They're like um I would say like the Lannisters without a gold pit, right? They're like a merchant. They're you know, can extract tolls. Um they've always, while they're not men of the like northern, like of the first men, they are um like the first um andals and they always played really nice with the north. And so they are they're aligned with the Starks, they like the Starks.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

They like the Riverlands folks. They're they they they know how to throw a party, they're they do know how to throw a party.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

They're good, they're fun, they're fun times. Do we see them at all? I mean, we see them Lord Manderley is definitely in the Game of Thrones series, but I don't know if we ever go.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

I I thought they they had a Mandalay reference in the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Well, the Mandarle's are just they're ri they're like it's in the north, it's the Starks and the Manderleys, and then you've got like the Car Starks and the Boltons or whatever, but the Car Starks and Boltons are kind of upstarts. The Mandalays and the Starks, they've been there for a long time. And um, yeah, I thought Torrens smiling and giggling at her was quite funny. Um, but then we go out, we see Damon and Reneer.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

He's the only one that gets it. He's literally the only one that gets it.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Yeah, well, he sends her, she sends him to, he says, like, go to the veil, which is interesting to me because sheepstealer and his daughter are in the veil.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Yeah, they also like in the in the episode they they show it's like I need to find who sheepstealer is.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, they still don't know who sheepstealer is. In Ryder is.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yeah, well, some people know, they're just not telling her.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Yeah, like when she passes Bayla in the hall, I even like Googled it. I'm like, is that Bayla or was it because at first I thought maybe it was um her mom, uh Lena, because we just saw Jace and that was a ghost. And I was like, okay, well, maybe we're seeing Lena and that's a ghost. Like it doesn't make sense to me why she wouldn't talk to Bayla. She's always had a close relationship with Bayla. Right. I'm like, why don't you ask Bayla right now who has on Sheep Steer who's on Sheep Stealer?

SPEAKER_01 42:18

But did you see? And like that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

I don't know. I think it feels like a weird plot hole that they're not just asking Bela. But Damon's on his way there. He might run into Sheep Stealer, he might run into Raina, his daughter, um, and he's gonna get the money.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Um he says, he says in their their interaction, you've come so far, but you still don't know who you are.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

And sorry, I wanted to have a whole conversation about him being uh crazy. He's like, We have six dragons, let's go take over the whole world. Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah, but that's part of the vision that he had. Like he sees he sees a uh uh uh obviously a Targaryen in a foreign land. He talks about Marine, he references the winged people. He says, Let's go take Dorn. Because right now, this is actually the only six kingdoms. Yeah, yeah, let's go take Dorm. We can take SOs, we can go to Yee Tee. Yee Tee, the free cities, all of these can be ours. We can do all these things.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

We have we are we are gods, but she doesn't, he's not get like Renera, I think, understands dragons better than Damon does.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

No, I think I disagree with you. No, I think that she understands her father's view of dragons.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

But I mean, we just saw Raina be completely unable to control Sheep Stealer. Right. But like these just because we're Dragon Rider doesn't rider doesn't mean that like your dragon's gonna listen to you.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

No, but I think the point is I think that uh you have the the pendulum, right? Like at one end you have the Ceres who like renounces dragon. Yeah. He flew his dragon like three times ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Then his dragon died. I don't I mean he didn't Valerion, the Black Dread.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

The Black Dread. It was the last one that saw Dorne in all its glory.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Valerian.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Valerian in all its all its glory. And then you have Damon that understands like this chaotic gift that you have. Like even at the very beginning, Orman calls him uh, do I take the word of the rogue prince? And the rogue the rogue prince truly understands the power that he has.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

He's gonna kill all these people, Rollins. Like to do that, he has to murder thousands and thousands of people. Like you're just cool with him murdering so many people for power.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

I'm not cool with him murdering people with power, but I understand that if you're going to maintain power, you have to maintain power. You can't just sit there and and waffle in your decision making. And that's all we see from Renera.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I just think if Damon was so smart, he should have burned down the whole high tower army.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I agree. I think that that I think that was an out-of-character move at the very beginning. I think at least you just saying you're gonna take the Rose Road home. Yeah, it's like, no, all right, that's great. I'm gonna have some of my gray beards or some of my toes escort you home. We're gonna make sure that you are on the path on which you can. And we don't we don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

I just I don't think Damon is as perfect as you're giving him credit for that.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I'm not saying I'm not saying he's perfect, but I'm seeing and and what he said is you've come so far, but you still don't know who you are. And yeah, that's that's a great way to sum up.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

But then let's style ourselves as gods. Like I think he's I think he's a little crazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Okay, okay, cool. Okay, we agree with that. We agree with that. Okay, cool, cool. That's a good note to end our our debate here on uh Damon is crazy. He's just also brilliant. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Um okay, then uh before we get to the next part of Hermer. So we then she goes because he says you still have to kill the thing. I was so that was the that was so funny. He was like, Yeah, I'll go, but I'm gonna kill her. You better kill him.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Like they have that good conversation in Valeria and then and the common tongue, and it's like when he doesn't get the result he wants, but again, he's deferring to her, he still is deferring to her. He's like, All right, you said it, your grace. But then he adds, like, still gotta kill the kid.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

She goes in there and then she notices that he has carved. I just I gotta think that there's like something to it. Sparrow or yeah, like a bird of some sort, which is interesting. And I think one I wonder if like she's like, Why isn't he carving a dragon? Because like they were probably, yeah, but the bird to me, or like a raven, I don't know. It was interesting. I I hope that like that isn't because it we saw that. I hope that that comes back.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Who he was, or yeah. Well, he says he's he's the kid that was brown hair in the first couple episodes.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

No, I think the kid with brown hair is Darien. No, I I because they dyed Darien's hair brown.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

I thought maybe I think I thought it was the same kid. I need to go back to the house.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Darien, I think that Darry they dyed Darien, I mean, we don't know, right? I think they dyed Darien's hair brown, and then they dyed his hair. And I saw somebody say, like, uh, when was Reneera gonna realize she could have just been dying her kid's hair this whole time? Like, why did she get this whole like bleach it, like the Wester Rosie bleach hair salon vibe?

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I also love like how she like double-took and looked at the hair. It's like, god damn it, it is bleach. This is a natural, look how frizzy this is.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

So before we get to that, um, that's when this was when Missaria and Reneira go administer food to the poor. I thought it was really interesting. Um, you know, she's looking so tired and so worn down. And she says, Missaria's like, look, you got a lot, you know, you just lost a couple kids, you took over, you're kind of unqualified for this job, you don't really have any friends. Um like you gotta lie, and she says, like, she buried a grief, she only feels rage. Masaria says, like, I feel rage, and I do feel like there is such there is this like feminine rage that is just exuding off the two of them of like we've been denied everything that we were told that we were gonna have.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

But for different reasons, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

For for completely different reasons, and so they go right outside the septa Baylor, Baylor.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Baylor. And um which I don't think it's called the Sept of Baylor right now.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

No, I think it's just the Great Sept. I feel like we looked, I looked this up a while ago, but yeah, it's like the Great, the main sept, the one that um I mean we've seen a lot of scenes there. Um, for instance, that's where Egon was taken. Yep. When Masaria hid him in the Great Sept, and they had that big fight outside with Amend and Um Aegon. And anyway, we, you know, they say like Masarius is like, oh, we'll just anoint you. If the High Septon won't anoint you, we'll just anoint you by giving away this food. Yeah. And you know, Rhenira makes a good speech, and I think it's the only time in the whole episode she actually smiles as she starts giving out the food.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

The tinnitus goes away for like a hot second, the hiring when she's doing it. Yeah. And then it and then it's back.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yep. Um she shows up and back into the red keep and um is immediately confronted by Corliss. Come on, Corless here. Like, when he is like, you like you did this, it's like, no, your son that you married me, even though you knew he was gay, right, did not provide me children. Like, this is actually like Rainys already blamed you for this forever ago. Rainy said to you, Corless, right before you guys got married, like, hey, you're putting him and all of his kids in a huge amount of risk because we both know that Leenor is not interested in women and can't do his duty, and you've always played along with that. And for you to then snap at her is so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Like, not only he snaps, but he like he he says the exact same thing that his brother lost his head for. Yeah. And he does it in a public forum. Yeah. Where it's like, you're not giving me exactly what I want. I'm just gonna call you to the mat. I did think that uh the the acting here was uh was pretty good. Uh taking aback, like uh you're my most one of my most trusted advisors. I don't have very many of them. How dare you talk to me like that?

SPEAKER_00 50:47

But at the same time, like, oh shit, like well, I think um she's like I think she and we have already said like Corless is a really astute political actor. Like he knows Corliss knows like how big of a deal this would be and how it would question everything. Everything.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Especially Joffrey, which she also calls to bring him home from the veil. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

And you know, Joffrey is now her heir, and she just can't be seen doing all these favors for her inner council and overturning all these things to give them their names. And for him to not get it is so I think it's shocking to us, and it's shocking to her.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

See, I don't understand why she just didn't do it. Because I think I again, like, yeah, I think that she's come so far, but she doesn't know who she is. So like with one decree, she could just make this happen and she could keep her most trusted advisor happy, and at the same time, like they're gonna question, they're already questioning you, like people are already questioning you in every aspect that you do. I think that she's overthinking a lot, yeah, a lot of this stuff. And I think the overthinking comes into play because the white worm is feeding her. Well, you gotta do it this way, and like you need these people to buy it.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Well, you know, the people who'd be most upset about him raising her raising up his bastards are the highborn who he just reads reds to.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

So, like maybe not give them quail instead of rats, and then say, hey, also this is happening, and hey, we're not gonna rob you blind and put you in poverty now, even though like you're you're out not only once, you're out twice because you paid for those goods and now you don't have those goods, and we're just giving them to people that don't give a shit. Yeah. At the end of the day, like if you're if you're uh rat from flea bottom, like figuratively or literally, like a loaf of bread one time in three weeks isn't gonna change your view of the queen.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Um I also think uh sorry, I got a notification that came up. Um, I've totally lost my train of thought here. Um anyway, Corliss, oh, I remember. Um, like when Rain when this goes back to when Corliss is like, well, I want okay, I'll marry my son to your daughter, but then the king's name needs to be Valerian.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

And uh like Viserys is like, absolutely not, it's always gonna be a Targaryen on the throne. And he then asked his wife afterwards, like, did I push too hard? And without Rainis, there, he is pushing too hard. Yes, like he has no moderating effect whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

He has no chill, but he's never had chill, but that's why that makes him who he is.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

He has a little bit of chill when Rainis could be like, Okay, calm down.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

When he had the other half of him.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

And I do think um Rainis also put this idea in his head because right before she died, she was like, you know, that Alan is very comely. Like I know. And so he thinks he's like honoring her memory or whatever it is, but he's just oversteps.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

I think he's seeing what he wants to see in that one. He's yeah, that's a good point. He's not like, I don't think he's honoring her at the end. I think that he's like well, she mentioned it one time, so she's good at that.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Yeah. Um, okay, so then we get our final scene, which we've already kind of alluded to. Um she Reneira goes to talk to Allison and says, like, I'm not gonna kill your son, I'm just gonna send him to the wall. And else like, she should have made Ormin do.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

God, she should have made Orman go to the wall.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, I don't know why they didn't kill Ormin. Anyway, so then they go, you know, she's Allison's still pissed. Like, how dare you do this to my son? My sons are dead. How many times are we gonna have to say I had three dead sons on your tab?

SPEAKER_01 54:48

So two dead son and a daughter, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:51

No, the the last one was also a son.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Oh, I thought it was it. The books of the stillborn.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

I don't know, whatever. It doesn't matter. It had like scales, long and short of it.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Yeah, it was it was whatever.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

I got three dead kids. You have a crippled kid, right? Well, two crippled kids, I guess, if you didn't talk about and then getting his eye poking out, but whatever. Um, she's like, I'm giving I'm showing him mercy. He can go to the wall.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Right, whatever. His actions are not.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah, like I'm gonna whatever. And so then Allison says, like, I'd like to see him. And they go in. I think that this was such great acting.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Yeah, it was it was like, Who the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Yeah, and then Renier is just looking back and forth, like, uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Um I did thought I did think that was done really well. I also like in the in the second watch that I did, I was like, Oh, the dragon's like, who's that? Like they they did if you watch like yeah, uh, what's his dragon's name?

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Uh Sarion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

That's not Darion. Yeah, he's like looking at it, like, who's that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Like, yeah. And um what did he say? So fake fake Darien said, like, out of the cot. He's like, well, actually, Orman made me do this.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

He's gonna kill my mum.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Yeah, he's gonna kill my real mom. Um sorry.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Like, and he kind of knows he's gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Um, I don't I mean, I wonder what I don't know what do you think they still send the fake kid to the wall? Are they gonna I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know what they're doing with him. Um and she'd already told, so then she'd she'd already told the servant to burn all of the high tower colors.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Which which I really like. I love watching the banners drop because it's like that's that is a schedule of war.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Uh yeah, there's a great Taylor Swift song that says, like, tore my banners down. Like, and I just like uh I tore my banners bound, went underground, like drank my poison all alone. It's like a great one, great war. Um and so as she is, we see the fires burning and a dragon keeper shows up. I'm like kind of confused why there was a dragon keeper in Tumbleton to begin with. Like there aren't up until Tesserion showing up, it's not like there were dragons in Tumbleton.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

So is Tumbleton just south of uh the Capitol? Maybe like they're the town adjacent to the dragon pit itself.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

I think they're a little bit further south than that. Yeah, they're a little bit further south than that.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Maybe that's where they busted in from.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

They're still like in the King's Land, but it is I don't know. It it seemed weird that like the dragon keeper is the one to get out. I think that they just I feel like they did it as the dragon keeper for like so they could have like high Valerian.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Well, low Valerian the same.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah, I'm sure. Um, and you know, he says like they have kill, they've taken Tumbleton, the dragon is now inside the gates. Um she said she wants to burn the city, and the dragon keeper sort of cautions against that. I know, even though Justin obviously doesn't care about the people burn them all mad king Justin over here.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

I could care about the people, but for the people to thrive, you have to have order. And uh we have too many people just going willy-nilly in this in this realm right now, doing whatever they want, getting empowered to do whatever they want, whenever they want to, and and like there is no there's no true king right now, and because there's no true king, you're gonna have individuals take liberties. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Like the I think the only person that gets this right now is Damon. It's like you give them an inch, they'll take a mile, and until you to until you reconstruct the order of what this world is, you you can't be soft. Because if you go soft on the situation, then you're just gonna get taken advantage of. And we saw that over and over and over again this episode.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

I think even though a lot of people are saying it was a filler episode, I feel like we got a lot.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

I I I thought it was a good episode as a whole. I uh again, like I think they paired the music, uh, anxiousness. It's not a fun one to rewatch, it's not a fun one to it's not gonna go into this is a top ten episode of all time.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

Yeah, yeah, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

But it was it was well shot, it was well mixed, there was a lot of great visuals. Again, like the three dragons at the very beginning in the cold open. Uh I thought that was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

I liked I like staying in King's Landing all the time too. And it does go back to like your favorite things about Game of Thrones, which is like the small conversations in rooms. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

And that's and this gets back to their roots.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

It gets back to what makes the show good. And and again, even if you getting advice, even if it's bad advice, is is a uh point worth having. So on that note, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Well, uh follow us on all of our on all of our channels and uh you know, give us a like. Let us know your comments. Give us a follow. Um, we will be back next week. We're gonna be a little chaotic next week and we probably won't have Peter, but maybe in two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Maybe in two weeks. Or we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Stay tuned. Thank you.

unknown 1:00:05

Bye bye.