Buhlebendalo Mda on early paydays, perception, and understanding your worth

When you don’t come from money, earning for the first time can feel life-changing. Even relatively small amounts can seem huge, simply because you’ve never had it before. But that lack of life experience can come at a cost.

In this episode of On the Money, singer and songwriter Buhlebendalo Mda joins Old Mutual’s Financial Education Programme Manager, Thabo Hollo, to reflect on early paydays in the music industry, the realities behind advances, and how quickly your perception of earning can shift once you understand the bigger picture.

It’s a candid conversation about money, context, and how not fully understanding the value of what you earn can leave you vulnerable. At its core, it’s a reminder that understanding your worth goes beyond what lands in your account.

On the Money is Old Mutual’s financial education podcast, where public figures and everyday people share their real stories about money – the good, the bad, and the unexpected.

Thanks for listening! Interested in getting more financial education? Visit our website for free resources. You can follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

Transcript

 THABO HOLLO [00:05] : Welcome to yet another episode of Old Mutual On The Money. My name is Thabo Hollo, and today we're sitting with a powerhouse. Yes, and you never thought she would be here, right? She is. Wow. Let’s start here, so when you were born, you shook things up right? Is that why you were called Buhlebendaloyenkosi?

BUHLEBENDALO [00:30] : 

Buhlebendalo ka nNkulunkulu. So, my, my grandmother was a Jehovah's Witness. I think she just had a very strong relationship with God. And I am the first child in my mother's marriage you see? So my grandmother said that when my mother gives birth, if I'm a boy, I’m going to be named Zanokuhle and if I’m a girl, I’m going to be named Buhlebendalo ka Nkulunkulu. But obviously during a apartheid times, the the oppressors couldn't pronounce our names, and then obviously my mum couldn't say, ah, this child is Buhlebendalo ka Nkulunkulu or Buhlebendalo so they cut it to Buhle, which I used throughout my education. But when I came to myself, I thought I should bring my name back Buhlebendalo, yeah.

THABO HOLLO [01:23] : 

So you call yourself Buhlebendalo? 

BUHLEBENDALO [01:23] : 

Yes.

THABO HOLLO [01:24] : 

Right. Growing up where exactly?

BUHLEBENDALO [01:26] : 

I grew up in so many places hey. I was born in Soweto, in Dobsonville on Roodepoort Road, which is now known as Elias Motsaoledi Road, I was born in the township and my mom was also born in the township, so we went from Soweto to Port Elizabeth, Kwa Zakhele. So those are my, I’ll say that those are my homes because that is a reflection that I have growing up. The picture of my mother’s side which is the Eastern Cape, which is now called Port Elizabeth, which is now called Gqeberha and Soweto. 

THABO HOLLO [02:06] : 

And, and, and moving from Soweto to Kwa Zakhele right, was it a big shock, uh, moving from one, uh.

BUHLEBENDALO [02:18] : 

It was.

THABO HOLLO [02:18] : 

Oh yeah?

BUHLEBENDALO [02:19] : 

It was especially when you are growing up because now there was this thing, I don't know if you've travelled outside of, of of our continent, but I've been to China and the Chinese would get so fascinated when it they see a black person, especially when they see a black person with dreadlocks, you know? They want to touch your hair, they want to touch your skin. Why are you black? You know, I felt like that whenever I, I went home Kwa Zakhele because I had a Zulu tongue because I grew up in Soweto. So I, I spoke strange compared to them and even the games we played, I had a don't know, I had a Soweto version of that game, for instance, Ingeto in Xhosa is Puca you know, so I'm like the, the clash, the culture clash, like, Oh my gosh, you know, so it's, it's the adjustment from being in the hood in Johannesburg and being in the hood in in in the Eastern Cape.

THABO HOLLO [03:20] : 

Tell me about your, your childhood. Then in in both instances did you have fun? Did you like singing? What exactly was your childhood like?

BUHLEBENDALO [03:31] : 

I was a very outgoing child.

THABO HOLLO [03:25] :

Wow! You’re the first one to admit.

BUHLEBENDALO [03:35] : 

I'm, I was very outgoing. And it shows from time to time now. That child comes out here and there you know, so I was a very inquisitive child. I still am. I was a very inquisitive child growing up. I was a very annoying child, you know, like the one that asked very many questions, umm, especially when it comes to umm, religion you know? When I would go to the fields with my grandmother, I would ask you many questions. Why are we standing in the sun? Yeah, like, I mean, why are we giving people pamphlets? Why can't they just come to church and read the pamphlets themselves, you know things like that. So, but I think I was a pleasure to be around. Umm I was called Nophaka in Est London. Nophaka is an outgoing, forward girl. A girl of the streets you know? But not not in this context of today, man, but I was forward, I was a forward girl you know so um.

THABO HOLLO [04:49] : 

Ok so wouldn't you just say perhaps you were a happy child?

BUHLEBENDALO [04:51] : 

I think I was, I think I brought so much happiness in in both the, the settings in both my mother’s family home and where I grew up you know? Umm, and like I said, I was, I was a love child, you know, my parents got married a year before I was born. So things were still good when I came into the picture. 

THABO HOLLO [05:14] : 

Honeymoon child? 

BUHLEBENDALO [05:14] : 

Yes, yes. So I think, I think I was a present child. I also enjoyed my upbringing because I had a lot of grandmothers, you know, because I grew up at the family homestead, where my grandmother's siblings are there and my cousins are there, so you know, it's was just a big family and then at the Soweto home as well, it was a family of cousins as well. 

THABO HOLLO [05:41] : 

Ok, did it influence somehow how you turned up in life later on? The growing up with grandmothers, with siblings and cousins. 

BUHLEBENDALO [05:52] : 

Yeah. I think it influences me every day how I navigate as a mom, and how I navigate as a woman in society, you know? I think even in my spiritual life, I am surrounded by matriarchs, you know, and it it, it shows within my creative space as well. It’s evident that I was brought up by women. 

THABO HOLLO [06:18] : 

Wow and that's what, that's what shows up?

BUHLEBENDALO [06:20] : 

Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [06:20] : 

Talk to me about you, your singing. Most people would say that they started in Creche. 

BUHLEBENDALO [06:26] : 

I did, actually.

THABO HOLLO [06:20] :  

Are you, are you one of those that started in Creche? 

BUHLEBENDALO [06:30] : 

I would also conduct the choir. I was one of those who would want to stand in the front. I actually have a picture of myself, I think I was 5, I'm wearing a white dress, and had a German cut hairstyle. The German cut was still the in thing back then, the Dr Khumalo one. Yeah, so German cut and I'm conducting the choir.

THABO HOLLO [06:50] : 

Wow.

BUHLEBENDALO [06:50] : 

I think I was given that position because I, I was that Nophaka that wanted to do everything within the choir. I think that's my recollection of singing at a young age until I came to primary school, which was at Chiawelo at Lekgabane where I, the, the singing came to me.

THABO HOLLO [07:08] : 

So you start at a very young age and I, I don't want to, some people if not most people know you as solo artist now but then there was era where you part of a group.

BUHLEBENDALO [07:19] : 

Most people know me as The Soil lady. They don't even know me as a solo artist. No, no, no. 

THABO HOLLO [07:25] : 

As a solo artist! An anomaly in the system. 

BUHLEBENDALO [07:25] : 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

THABO HOLLO [07:25] : 

Wow! But tell me about that the soil era in terms of you gelling with other artists, working with different artists, in terms of achieving success. You were quite successful and, and I must say, still is successful. How did it work out?

BUHLEBENDALO [07:44] : 

I forced myself into The Soil. They didn't want me because I was still that forward girl, yes.

THABO HOLLO [07:52] :  

Ok. Tell me about that incident. 

BUHLEBENDALO [07:53] : 

I remember I met the gents in a passage in school. It was Samkelo which you know as Something Soweto now, it was Samkelo, it was Phindo, it was Ntsika and they were singing, I think they were singing in Inkomo. And then I came with my 4th harmony got in there and then Samkelo said, “We don’t sing with girls.” So I said, ‘I’m not just any girl, I’m me and you need my voice. You need me.’ You know? I think, me forcing myself into the, into the ‘three-o’ just made sense musically, you know? And I wasn't going anywhere either way, so.

THABO HOLLO [08:42] : 

Yeah, yeah. So the quartet forms, right?

BUHLEBENDALO [08:42] : 

Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [08:43] : 

Acapella, another different element on its own when everybody was singing you decided nah, we will go this way. How did it feel though? 

BUHLEBENDALO [08:52] : 

I don't think it was a decision. 

THABO HOLLO [08:57] : 

Yeah?

BUHLEBENDALO [08:57] : 

It was poverty that lead us to sing acapella because a normal government school that didn't have facilities of a piano lesson or a cello or a music class. So we had to use what we had, you know, and, and as we grew doing that, people started liking it and we thought ok, this could be a thing and then we just continued, yeah

THABO HOLLO [09:23] : 

So, so out of necessity I suppose, you then form this group and it  becomes a massive success, and there's money? Was there money?

BUHLEBENDALO [09:33] :

There’s no money in this industry, it’s eaten by the recording company.

THABO HOLLO [09:42] : 

That's what everybody says, until you see the bank account and you think, but you had money!

BUHLEBENDALO [09:33] : 

Especially if you are young. Because when you're young and you see 100,000, you're like yoh! I have money! But a chunk of it, you, you just got the 10% of a million. The big chunk of it is gone and you're just getting a portion that will look glamorous in your eyes. I don't even want to be political about it, but it's the truth you know, like we, we, you, they give you an amount that is out of, of your understanding at that particular time. You’re from the township, you don’t know how much 100,000 is. Or you don’t know what 10,000 is. So for now let’s give you an advance of 10,000 for no reason you know. So it's.

THABO HOLLO [10:30] :  

And it’s a lot of money. Ten thousand is like yoh! 

BUHLEBENDALO [10:33] : 

Yoh! I’m going to buy my mother a room divider or something like that you know? So it’s, money comes when you know how to use it.

THABO HOLLO [10:43] :  

But talk to me about that first instance, that first, uh, money. That, that first ten thousand for the room divider. Do you still have recollection of how much was it? What did you do with that? What do you do first thing that that you want with the?

BUHLEBENDALO [11:03] : 

I remember I, so our from long ago I was very addicted to saving, I think due to growing up in poverty and I promised myself to say when I actually make money, I'm going to save money so that I don't come back to this, you know, so I've, I've always had that thought in my mind and I was a person who was also afraid to carry a lot of money so I would be ok with only 100 Rand in my purse and the rest in the bank because when I, when I had money, I, I would feel like people can see that I'm holding money, it was just a mental thing for me, you know. So I, I started getting very pedantic when it comes to spending money. I saved so much money to a point where I, I saved over 1,000,000 in in my bank account and then I went to my parents and then I said, ‘Let’s demolish this house and build a new one.’ 

THABO HOLLO [12:04] :  

Is that, was that the first thing that you did with the million?  

BUHLEBENDALO [12:08] : 

Yes, that’s, that's what I did. I remember I spent about 600,000 on, on demolishing and rebuilding it. And then bought furniture here and there, you know those small things. But I think what was left over, I bought myself a car. I built my mother and father a house that's what I did with my first lumpsum. 

THABO HOLLO [12:32] :  

Yes, yes. That ten thousand. But then let’s talk about that, that money, you said it's kind of skewed towards the record, record labels, record companies. I want to know about your group though. Was there instances where you guys discussed money, discussed finances, about being cheated or talked about money in general? Or was it a subject that, hey, we here for music, we're not talking about money here.  

BUHLEBENDALO [13:03] :

No. Hey, now I’m going to reveal all the scandals. There was not a lot of discussions in the in the group especially when it came to money like we would perform, everyone got their cut and we go home you know.

THABO HOLLO [13:18] :

Theres no discussion, there’s no. 

BUHLEBENDALO [13:19] :  

That’s why I say it was enough for that particular time until now you look at things and like hmm… No man, something is off.

THABO HOLLO [13:30] : 

Wait, wait. Let’s talk about what was off. Was it because of the nature of the industry or was it because of the group that you’re from? You were the only lady in the group. 

BUHLEBENDALO [13:43] :  

The nature of the business.

THABO HOLLO [13:46] : 

Did it make any difference in terms of how the money was divided up? How the discussions of the money, did it make any difference in terms of how you related with the other gents? 

BUHLEBENDALO [13:54] :

No, no, no, not at all. No at all. I think I'm too much of a king for that. No, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, it, it's, it's enough until you open your eyes, man. I don’t know how else to put it like it's, it's, it's enough until you see that I have a lot of responsibilities, especially for me, I became a mom at 22, at the same year we were signed to a recording company, you know, so there was a, there was a lot for me to be responsible for outside of just buying myself a bag or buying myself hair or whatever you know, and I was never that girl either way, but my responsibilities made me open my eyes wider to say ‘hey man. No man, this seems off.’ 

THABO HOLLO [14:52] :  

Something is off here.

BUHLEBENDALO [14:54] : 

But at the same time, like I, I said, I was addicted to saving. The more I saved, the more I didn't realize that it's not enough. I could, I could feel that it's enough because I also have that little bit and on the side. Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [15:10] :  

Would you, would you say your culture of savings was born out of trauma more than anything else, right? And how do you relate it back to your, to your childhood trauma?

BUHLEBENDALO [15:22] : 

It’s tough. 

THABO HOLLO [15:29] : 

Take me, take me there. 

BUHLEBENDALO [15:29] : 

Yeah, growing up in in my time was tough. A taxi from home to, to my school was 5 Rand. And umm, I would also need 5 Rand to, to eat, you know, and buy a decent meal. And I would need 5 Rand to go back home. So that is 15 Rand and now there's also things like bread that needs to be bought and home. There's also meat. In that 15 Rand that you can come out with a whole supper for the whole family . So now we had to choose, we give you 15 rand that for school or we focus on getting you fed after school or during the night time, you know, so every walk I took from home to school and back. Was me promising myself to say not like this, you know, and like no, I’m afraid of not having money. Even 20 rand in my pocket, you know? It has to be there because I spiritually I also believe that money calls interest to itself and as, as wisely as you use your money, it will come back to you. I think money is also energy for me. So how you use your money will also determine how much of it you get it back. You see, so, umm, it's not even making it a materialistic thing, but something that needs to sustain us in this economy also. Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [17:13] :  

I, I, I hear you. I'm, I'm still stuck on you walking. So it’s a choice between, the choice between.

BUHLEBENDALO [17:19] : 

Walking and eating.

THABO HOLLO [17:19] :  

Food and did you ever miss perhaps a class, because it was raining and there was no money. I can’t go to school because there is no money. 

BUHLEBENDALO [17:30] : 

Oh no, you'll walk in that rain. Yes you’ll put on a raincoat. 

THABO HOLLO [17:35] : 

So there was no way that you, you could have missed the class simply because there's no money at home. 

BUHLEBENDALO [17:38] : 

Yeah. The only time you'd miss a class is if you were ill. Like every 

THABO HOLLO [17:44] :

Like really, really sick.

BUHLEBENDALO [17:44] : 

Every other thing is just normal. It was normal to us to walk to school. It, it was not, it was not like a thing or even the kids that could actually afford transportation would walk with us you know, it was a culture. It was something that is normal to a point where we didn't feel the strain of it growing up. But it's just highlighted now that I'm looking back to it.

THABO HOLLO [18:07] : 

Yeah. Let's, let's move a little bit from, umm, from the childhood. I'm still interested in in the money discussions, particularly at home right. Now you transition to your teenage, teenage years, right. Do you talk about money with the family? Is there, is that even a thought that’s there’s money, that there are people working, I’m not sure if they were working, but they would from time to time tell you that “I don’t have money!” Were those discussions ever held and how did that make you feel? 

BUHLEBENDALO [18:45] : 

Every time.Bad. I remember the last time I asked for money from my parents, I was in Grade 11, which was standard 9. Because I could see how it's a touchy subject, you know, having to ask for money. I think that was the last time I asked for money after that I didn't even today. Right up until today. 

THABO HOLLO [19:15] :

You don't ask for money?

BUHLEBENDALO [19:17] : 

No from, from, from grade 11 until now I've never asked for money for my parents because I could, I could feel that it's very touchy. It's a touchy subject to them, yeah.

THABO HOLLO [19:27] : 

You said money is energy to you, right? And the, I wonder which aspect of, of money is it about spending, saving, borrowing? Which part of it seems to be part of the energy or is it the physical cash?

BUHLEBENDALO [19:45] : 

Every part of it, every part of it is energy. What you do with money, let’s say for instance, you go into a strip club and you pay for what you see you know. I paying, I'm paying to see more of what I am seeing already.

THABO HOLLO [20:17] : 

Yeah, I hear you. 

BUHLEBENDALO [20:17] : 

And as I tip this person, this person does more for me. You know that that's the kind of energy I'm talking about. It's, it's a boomerang effect. It’s similar to us when we are performing ancestral rituals we are bringing light into where wherever this money comes from may it, may it bring abundance and light you see? Even in a taxi, when you’re paying and pass the money forward from the backseat, that energy is transferred straight to the driver to help him do more of what he's already doing. 

THABO HOLLO [21:00] : 

So that's what the energy part of, of…ok. 

BUHLEBENDALO [21:04] : 

Yes. Yes. So whatever you put into the money, the money brings it back to you. Only if you respect what you put money into.

THABO HOLLO [21:14] : 

You spoke about the boomerang effect. So that's the boomerang effect, whatever you throw out there in terms of money, it's exactly what you what you get back. Let’s, let's talk about your relationship with other facets of money, for instance debt, do you believe in credit? If so.

BUHLEBENDALO [21:30] : 

I hate those things.

THABO HOLLO [21:32] : 

You do? Talk to me about the hate relationship that you have with credit? 

BUHLEBENDALO [21:36] : 

I used to work at a call centre. I was a credit regulator so I know exactly how credit goes. We sell you, we say this class of water you can pay 24 months. This glass of water, I don't tell you the initial price of this glass of water. I'm saying no, you can have it and you can just give me twenty four rand for 24 months. You as the person, who is receiving, you’re like, yoh! Seriously? You taking this? Yeah. I mean, what was twenty rand? And when it comes back, the value of it is way more than what the initial price is for the glass. And you, you think that you've won. And when you're done paying for this class, after 24 months, they've invented another one that has a handle. 

THABO HOLLO [22:32] : 

So it’s no longer as valuable. 

BUHLEBENDALO [22:32] : 

This glass no longer has use, because you’re being shown another one. You know, and when I was working, I worked today for three years and I was like, yoh guys. It, it also made me feel very bad because we put people into debt. I would open credit accounts for people, I used to work for a very big financial service provider. And I'm like, no, man, no, this this can't be real. So I'm giving you an account worth of 1.5 and you pay 600 every month for 24 months and I'm like calculate that I'm like… So I told myself when I but obviously when you live in a in a world, hey, I don’t want to be political man. In a world that always wants something from you umm you are then forced to have a credit record or a credit score. So I think that's what made me, I only have one account, which is my cell phone account so that I can just regulate my credit score. I was always afraid to open accounts and have all these debts because I've seen that at home as well to say the repossessions, I mean we grew up where the furniture at home was repossessed by the furniture store. Russells would come to take the couches where you thought these couches belonged to us and now the parents couldn't pay for this sofa anymore. Now they have to repossess the sofa, you know, so I there's a lot of things that happened in my past and in my upbringing I was like, no, I'm not gonna be that girl I'm not going you know so I don’t like debts.

THABO HOLLO [24:29] : 

So we know, we know about savings and your fear of failure when it comes to finance, right? We know about debt, right? That your fear of debt simply because of the repossessions of the couches. Let's talk about insurance, for instance, other, other financial products. We, we know that in your industry, for instance, people pass away and when they pass away, unfortunately some of them are not umm, well-endowed in terms of money, right? What is your view in terms of things like, uh, insurance?

BUHLEBENDALO [25:10] : 

Clubbing money. I believe in societies a lot. I’m at that age also where I need to join in societies. I believe in that so much. I believe in that culture because it's sustainable, you know, and I  feel like also my industry could do more when it comes to securing the, the legacy of, of a certain artist, you know we need a society it within the industry. 

THABO HOLLO [25:45] : 

Talk to me about that, you say that the industry could do more, if you were the international president of all societies that they have nothing to do with Arts & Culture, what was, what are the things that you would do differently?

BUHLEBENDALO [25:59] :

I would make the access of education available, especially when it comes to the business side of the business side of the music industry. I think that, that's what actually kills us the most as artists, you know, we, we get so consumed in making the work, having those performances and singing in those stages and forget that we also need to understand the business and teach ourselves more. I think I would make it compulsory for each and every artist to go through a process of learning, maybe a three month course that will make you or help you regulate your finances as an artist, be it a signed artist or an independent artist. But I like the fact that there are institutions available that have that, that supply that to artists. Artists just need to lock into them. But we need more.

THABO HOLLO [27:07] : 

We need more, but tell me, how prevalent is it now? With at least the likes of social media and media in general in terms of people, artists particularly regarding themselves as businesses also. So the business of the art, is it still lacking? Is it something that is growing or were just focused on singing?

BUHLEBENDALO [27:32] : 

I assume we're, we're getting better, especially with these kids now they, they are so hands on with when it comes to their craft, you know, especially when it comes to this content creation via Tiktoks and Youtubes and all those social media platforms. They are, they are present outside of, I want to say us or the generation before us, we, we didn't have that privilege of accessing a distribution deal right at your fingers. We were, we were forced to say, ok, if I sign you under my company, I'm gonna sign a distribution deal with you, I'm gonna sign a management deal, I'm gonna sign a recording deal, you're going to be all mine. But now we can we, we have the opportunity to choose to say I only need you for management that's all, and this is what I'm willing to negotiate for management with you. And if, if there is no managerial work, then no one gets paid, you know, so, so I think it's better now we're growing. I'm, I'm also learning. I, I just got independent. What's this year? Five years ago, when I left my recording company and I'm learning so much of what I can do for myself and things that I would have done a long time ago, but I just didn't lock it in.

THABO HOLLO [29:06] : 

In fact I want to go to that. I want you to think back when you guys started, particularly in the in the era of The Soil, right? If you were to advise your younger selves based on what you know now, what are those things that you would say, hey, gents, let's look at this or let's try this? What are the things that you would tell your younger self?

BUHLEBENDALO [29:26] : 

Don't force yourself in groups. 

THABO HOLLO [29:32] : 

That's number one.

BUHLEBENDALO [29:36] : 

Just stand your ground, always ask for help. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with asking questions. As much as people find it very annoying of someone asking the questions, ask the question, it’s your right to know.

THABO HOLLO [29:54] : 

Ask the questions anyway. 

BUHLEBENDALO [29:57] : 

Ask the questions anyway, it's your right to know. It, it was even difficult to ask which, ok, how much did you charge this particular client for, for this performance? It was, it was tough to ask those questions. 

THABO HOLLO [30:18] : 

Why?

BUHLEBENDALO [30:18] :  

It's the hierarchy with, within the, within the, the business with within the, the, the industry, you know, so I feel like those questions, you just need to ask them either way.

THABO HOLLO [30:30] : 

So you would say to your younger self, ask those questions anyway, yeah, umm, whether it's difficult, whether it's hierarchy. But then let's talk about you said now that I'm a mom, I have responsibilities, umm, as a mom, do you have the conversations about money with your with your child or children?

BUHLEBENDALO [30:49] :  

All the time. She actually started her crocheting business. I think she's it's a year now. We, we set her down, she's 14. We set her down and we, we told her, you see how hard it is and, and your kind of generation is very demanding you know? In our time, we didn't even care what we were wearing like we just take whatever we get from our parents and be about our day. Now there's edge gels, there's nails, there's a certain kind of pen that I need to write in. There's this kind of phone, there's this kind of shoe, there's this themed party I'm going to, you know, it's, it's a lot. So we introduced the, the, the self-sufficient conversation, to say if you want the money, you're going to make it yourself. You know, so she started a crocheting business, which is, she's very proud of herself because sometimes she's like, do you want me to get you lunch? You know so.

THABO HOLLO [31:54] : 

Hang on, she's very proud of herself. Are you proud of her?

BUHLEBENDALO [32:55] : 

I am. I, I I'll, I'll, I'm, I'll always be part of my child, you know, with every stride that she, she especially with her generation and looking at her peers as well, like she's, she's part of a generation that is very independent. Yeah, you know, 2K’s are very independent, like they don't need anyone's help you know? We, we, we as parents, we just need to guard the situation. Otherwise they can work on their own. For instance, she also started to learn how to drive you know, it's, it's things that we couldn't afford back then. And it's important for us to just reflect and, and if we can, we give them, especially when it comes to the self-sufficient money conversation.

THABO HOLLO [32:44] : 

But then what does what, what does what does this conversation go like with the 2000’s? I heard that they can be very tricky and difficult. Do you find that it is tricky and difficult or is it just hey easy?

BUHLEBENDALO [32:59] : 

I think wit, with my daughter we, we, we set the tone very early. The tone of friendship before, before, before they see us as a parent to say you know ‘I’m afraid to say this’, so I think that foundation of sharing stuff together has created a platform where we can talk about anything, even the uncomfortable conversations, you know, we can talk about them. So I think, I think the kids are cool, the kids are alright. 

THABO HOLLO [33:35] : 

The kids are right.

BUHLEBENDALO [33:35] :

Yeah. So they'll figure as much as it's difficult, but the kids are fine, yeah.

THABO HOLLO [33:39] : 

Yeah, where do we go from here? With Buhle, Is it business? How important is the art, the business of the art, to Buhle going forward?

BUHLEBENDALO [33:48] : 

I've started a mentorship program. It's called After School is After School. 

THABO HOLLO [33:58] : 

Uh, for, for some of us it meant something else!

BUHLEBENDALO [33:48] : 

I like that. I like that you said that. I'm trying to change the narrative after school is after school is because during our time after school we knew that it was a call to fight, we were going to fight you know? But I'm trying to change that notion of fighting and being negative and putting it in a positive manner of growing together musically. So I visit high school choirs. It doesn't matter if it's a choral or a clap and tap or whatever or a Gwijo choir that you may have at your school. I visit them and I provide my, the knowledge that I have with the kids and help them shape their, their choir or their ensemble into something that can be fruitful in the future. Yeah. That's one of the things that I'm doing. I also, yes, I make clothing. What I'm wearing now is from me. That's why I say that I’m afraid of not having money. I make clothing as well. I started producing my own music. So that is, it cuts the middleman in a way, you know, when it comes to the, the money that we put into the music, you know, so I'm, even my spiritual work, as much as it's not a monetary thing, but I think the energy that I'm sharing within my spiritual work also it satisfies me in a way. Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [35:32] : 

So, so we spoke about you growing up in Dobsonville, moving Kwa Zakhele, we spoke about the relationship with money at the very young age, the fear of debt, the culture of savings that's associated with, with trauma. All right, If you were to guide, the, the up and coming artists particularly around this sadly, what we've noticed is there's still a challenge in terms of the management of money by most artists and, and let's just say people in general, right? If you were to guide them in terms of two or three things that were you a recipe to your own success, what would those things be?

BUHLEBENDALO [36:20] : 

I don't like advising people on how they should navigate their lives. Because I'm also just a girl who's trying to navigate their lives. Whatever makes you happy dude, just do it. 

THABO HOLLO [36:38] : 

But then if you were to share, for instance, what makes you happy that you think a younger Buhle who's, who's going to watch this thing in 3-4 years’ time right? What would this aspect be in terms of just generally sharing what life, umm, taught you in particular right, to be a success that you regard yourself as?

BUHLEBENDALO [37:05] : 

Try to create pockets of happiness because you can't get like a big chunk of happiness. I think what I did for myself is creating, umm, big chunks of, of happiness. I, I, I was speaking to Tumi off air, uh, to say sometimes God puts you in very sticky situations, uh, where you lose, where you feel like you've lost everything, like be it friendship, family or the, the very thing that keeps you going, but you don't know that a new path is trying to clear itself out for you. So it's ok, you can lose whatever you're losing. Maybe you are too burdened for the next part of your journey so you need to get rid of some things. I have a song called ‘Cwaka’, please listen to it. I wrote it after losing my brother. I talks of shedding, shaking off and leaving behind. And when you shed, leave behind and shake off, you literally feel lighter. And if you are lighter, you have enough energy to, to carry something else. So yeah.

THABO HOLLO [38:19] : 

Wow. So, so you, you talk to me and that's a very interesting one when you talk about burdens, right, of the future. Are there burdens that you think, based on your previous experiences, that you look back and say, but I shouldn't have carried that burden. Perhaps that delayed me. 

BUHLEBENDALO [38:39] : 

Being in a group. 

THABO HOLLO [38:39] : 

Talk to me about being in a group.

BUHLEBENDALO [38:42] : 

Being in a group that doesn't appreciate you. Being in a group that doesn't appreciate you. I think this is the first interview actually. That I'm actually going to say, and I forgave that girl for allowing to be in a space where they were not appreciated. I, I did the typical abused woman thing. You know, to say aah man. It's fine, man. It's just carry on being strong. You know I'm doing it for the kids. No. You know, I think. I I'm just proud of myself for forgiving myself for staying in that situation for so long where I didn't even see my light. I allowed myself to be part of a crew that made me feel like my light was dim and I was ok staying in the, in that dimness, whereas there's so much power and so much light and not just my voice, but in my being, you know? So yeah, I, I shouldn't have forced myself into the group actually, but I appreciate every lesson that I've learnt throughout being in, in that setup and the places I've been I can never take that away. But I've learned so much that I've learned so much about myself and letting go of those kind of setups and situations.

THABO HOLLO [40:10] : 

But would you then say, umm, that delayed you in a way? 

BUHLEBENDALO [40:10] : 

No never. 

THABO HOLLO [40:21] : 

Was it, was it a lesson worth learning?

BUHLEBENDALO [40:22] : 

Yes, I had to go through. It was my initiation. It was my initiation you know, I had to see the things I've seen. I had to go through the, the things I've, I've went through. I had to be there. I had to be there fully myself for me to know what I can take forward for myself. Yeah.

THABO HOLLO [40:41] : 

So, so in a parting shot, forgiving yourself even in instances where there's perhaps financial mistakes that you've made. Is it? Is it, is it?

BUHLEBENDALO [40:54] : 

I don’t make financial mistakes. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it. Like, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For instance, I still drive a Polo. I'm very comfortable. It takes me everywhere I want to go. Like I'm not pressured to buy a bigger car or. Like I'm still there. I don't make financial mistakes that maybe I might go overboard when I buy groceries and buy extra things that I know I don't need at that particular. Those are the mistakes but that's that or when I go to buy fabric, yes, or when I go to buy fabric because of a fabric head, like I love material. That's the only time I'm going to make mistakes. I'm like, I spent over 5000 I'm so sorry. That's the only time. Otherwise no.

THABO HOLLO [41:40] : 

Wow, Stick to your lane. Stick to your lane.

BUHLEBENDALO [41:48] : 

Please. All the time. 

THABO HOLLO [41:48] : 

Don't feel pressured and move on. Thanks sis Buhle.

BUHLEBENDALO [41:51] :  

Thank you for having me.

THABO HOLLO [41:52] : 

Thank you for, for gracing us with your presence and we wish you all the best. 

BUHLEBENDALO [41:56] :  

Thank you for having me, Thokozani guys. 

THABO HOLLO [42:00] : 

Thank you guys.