S4 EP 3 Building Resilience: Encouraging Student Confidence and Engagement in Diverse Classrooms

Mariam Lee 

Interventionist Specialist/MTSS Lead

Quote of the Podcast:  

Education is a passport to freedom and the means to unlock the globe.- Oprah Winfrey

Introduction of Guest BIO –  

Mariam Lee has been making an impact in education for the past 15 years. She has taught K-5 for 10 years in a title 1 school and made the switch during the 2020 pandemic into intervention. The past 5 years, her focus has been as a reading and math K-5 interventionist as well as MTSS Lead. She knew that she was called to teach, inspire, and attempt to close the academic and social and emotional learning gap even more so in both the all girls and all boys STEM schools.

Interview 

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators 

●        30,000 Ft. View – Why do we, as a society invest in education? 

●       What drew you to education? 

●       mental health of teachers/mentoring

●       What are the biggest challenges to you? 

●       What would you like decision-makers to know? 

Podcast/book shoutouts 

 Abbott Elementary 

Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to education perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education. Miriam Lee has been making an impact in education for the past fifteen years. She has taught k five for ten years in a title one school and made the switch during the twenty twenty pandemic into intervention.

Liza Holland [00:00:42]:
The past five years, her focus has been as a reading and math k five interventionist as well as MTSS lead. She knew that she was called to teach, to inspire, and to attempt to close the academic and social and emotional learning gap even more so in both the all girls and all boys STEM schools. Well, Miriam, thank you so much for taking the time to be on Education Perspectives today.

Mariam Lee [00:01:12]:
Thank you for having me.

Liza Holland [00:01:13]:
Gotta kick you off with our our big question. From a 30,000 foot view, why do you think that we, as a society, invest in education?

Mariam Lee [00:01:22]:
Well, I think education is the foundation of, basically, a society of a functional society. If we don't if we're not educated, well, education helps build teachers, build doctors, build all the things that we need in order for society to function, I think.

Liza Holland [00:01:40]:
Excellent answer. It it is that in it is that foundation. So tell me a little bit about yourself. What drew you to education, and how did you get to where you are now?

Mariam Lee [00:01:51]:
Well, always I had a favorite second, third grade teacher. I had her for two years. Her name's miss Skipworth. She was amazing and just I always admired her for so long. I was so growing up, I'm half Arabic and half white. And so growing up with a last name, a l hyphen a z d a h, at that time, there wasn't a lot of diversity. So she was very welcoming and allowing me to share, like, my culture with the classroom. And so it was really nice to have a teacher like that being so involved when I felt so different amongst everybody else in the classroom.

Mariam Lee [00:02:33]:
And so that is something that I keep with me even in my classroom, just being able to understand other viewpoints and other cultures and how that can empower your own classroom.

Liza Holland [00:02:45]:
That's exciting that you you know, that's what we wish for every student is to at least have one person that can make them feel welcome and that sort of a thing. How has that played out for you in taking on this role as teacher? Have you had any specific instances where you felt like maybe you were able to make a difference for a child that way?

Mariam Lee [00:03:04]:
Yes. And many of the families too. So I have been teaching since 2010. And so a few years into it, I know, in here in Kentucky and Lexington, we were starting to get more of an influx, refugees from Middle Eastern countries. And, so it was really nice. In my particular school, we had quite a few EL students, and I was able to engage with them and their families and making them feel welcome. Now it's my Arabic is pretty not the best. So even just saying hello and how are you in Arabic just kinda brings a smile to their face.

Mariam Lee [00:03:45]:
I'm, like, surprised that there's an actual teacher that also represents them too.

Liza Holland [00:03:51]:
Absolutely. You know, I I think that just the fact that you took the time and the trouble to try to greet them in their native language has got to break down a whole lot of barriers. You know, so many of the folks that I've been interviewing talk about how the demographics really are changing in our classrooms today, and I know Fayette County, for example, has, like, 94 different languages spoken. I mean, it's it's a real it's a real change that from way back in the day, as it were. What types of things do you think that educators really ought to be thinking about, especially given your history when they're dealing with folks from many different cultures in their classroom?

Mariam Lee [00:04:33]:
My number one thing is just kind of having empathy and understanding. Like, put yourself in their shoes. Like, how would it feel to come into a school? Either nobody knows your language or just not knowing how to pronounce your name correctly. Just like being able to understand their perspective. And once I think you can understand that is welcoming the parents. Because most of the time, if they do come from a different culture and if they don't mainly speak English, it's not that they don't wanna be involved. It's just they might not know how to be involved or understand how to be involved. And so just being able to communicate in different languages.

Mariam Lee [00:05:17]:
I know ClassDojo now translates to many languages. So even just sending messages, they can immediately translate and understand what you're saying. But just also making sure all the paperwork that's being sent home is being translated. But just inviting the families to come and have, like, a culture night and just bring foods from their culture or let people just wear what they're like, I had a kid from Swahili and or from The Congo, and she, like, wore this beautiful dress, and she wore it for picture day. And everybody was just, like, so excited to see her culture being represented at school, and she was just so proud about it to, like, explain.

Liza Holland [00:05:59]:
I think that's so good. And it's not just for the students that are you know, that have that background. It's for the students who have you know, their parents have never been out of Kentucky and realizing that there's so much more to the world than what a lot of us have had the opportunity to experience. So that's just a neat thing. I see a lot of potential with AI for the EL students. What are your thoughts?

Mariam Lee [00:06:20]:
Oh, I haven't really thought about it too much in that perspective, but I have been doing some digging with AI. And, I think it can help, but we also need to be careful with the implicit biases that they, like, the AI generates itself. So, like, even if you are using that tool as an educator, like, realizing it's still new and still learning. So we kinda have to add that human effect to make sure that there isn't any biases that's being related or relayed to us.

Liza Holland [00:06:52]:
Yeah. There's a lot of growth that needs to happen with that technology. It's but I tell you, I've used it myself on a number of occasions, and it's like getting that first draft done in seconds, that saves a whole lot of time.

Mariam Lee [00:07:05]:
Yeah. Right? Whole lot of time. An educational grant?

Liza Holland [00:07:09]:
Yeah. Exactly. You know, teachers so many of the teachers that I come into contact with, their their most precious resource is time. They just don't have enough time to be able to innovate and to collaborate with one another and all those different types of things. So I'm I'm hoping that that will be the silver lining piece, all this administrative junk that they spend hours doing that AI can help that.

Mariam Lee [00:07:36]:
Yeah. I had my friend, Britney. She actually came in last year and did a professional development at my school to help with the teachers reducing their cognitive load with AI. And, like, right after the meeting, the teachers were just so like, you could see the stress going down. Like, oh, this is gonna make it so much easier and less time and more time for themselves.

Liza Holland [00:07:59]:
Oh, I'm so glad. And I'm so glad that Britney was able to have that kind of an impact for you. She is just such a a wonderful human being. But this is a great segue because you had mentioned that, you might wanna talk a little bit about the mental health of teachers and, and maybe get into a little bit of mentoring. So what about your thought on the mental health of teachers right now?

Mariam Lee [00:08:20]:
Well, for the longest time so I've been teaching for fifteen years, and the first, first four years were really, really tough for me. And I think a lot that was helpful was having a really strong mentor that even after my KTIP year, I still had somebody that I can talk to and ask questions and, like, wasn't an administrative and felt evaluative and not gonna be pink slipped because of what I'm saying or asking. So having a mentor in that way was very helpful, but, also, for the longest time, I was just baffled of how there wasn't all these resources to help teachers or have somebody just for the teachers. And so I was really happy to see about around 2016, '20 '17, our district started having mental health specialists in the schools, but they were for the kids. I was like, okay. Well, that's a start. And then during so the past couple years, we finally got a mental health specialist. One for the whole county was one person for all the teachers.

Mariam Lee [00:09:28]:
I was like, well

Liza Holland [00:09:30]:
3,800 teachers in one person. Oh, dear god. It's a start. Exactly. That's a great way to

Mariam Lee [00:09:36]:
look at it. And so it was the next year. She had such great feedback. She was able to build more staff on her team, but also starting building capacity within the schools. So there's wellness leads in the schools, and that was mine for last year. And so I was hate able to take all the information that I was learning from the district and all the resources that we have. We get free, counseling sessions and all these, like, free online training resources and stuff. So I was able to filter that to the classroom and help teachers immediately.

Mariam Lee [00:10:14]:
And I'm just glad that that is finally a resource. But I'm with twenty twenty, I was burnt out. It was ten years into teaching. I was spiraling. I changed grades. I did all the things. I had been at the same school. I was like, it's time for me to just move on to my next school, and maybe that'll help.

Mariam Lee [00:10:34]:
Well, then COVID happened, which was great. Because in my I know this is a privileged statement, but it was a blessing. I was able to after the three weeks of being in a frozen stage and feeling like our society was gonna collapse because I'm not teaching, I was like, okay. The universe has given me a break. I was able to have eight hours of sleep, drink water, go to the bathroom, and do those things and, like, not feel overwhelmed. Even though I knew teaching online was not the way was not the best practice for kids, at least I was exposing them. And I made sure that I was there all day because even if we had third graders are not working on their phone. So I had them still on my screen because some of them had no parents at home because they were working.

Mariam Lee [00:11:26]:
Yeah. So all that's to say is that I was in a better, calmer state. Then we started opening back, and I was excited. I felt like we could actually make a a transition into something different, being more innovative. And I was kind of disappointed that that didn't occur. And, for example, it was the school board was trying to figure out how do we do our calendar, how do we adjust for the COVID. And in my perspective, I was like, I wish we would just do a year round where we go nine weeks off three weeks. Go nine weeks off three weeks.

Mariam Lee [00:12:07]:
I feel like that would, one, help with the quarantine situation that was happening. Two, I feel like that would really help with teacher burnout and allowing teachers to have a longer breaks, but also the flexibility in our own schedule. Like, I like to travel a lot and a lot of my friends do, but I can't go on a two week trip to, Japan in November. It's just everything is just so finite. So I just with teachers leaving so quickly and for other positions, I just feel like we just need to be kind of thinking outside of the box. So I was kind of disappointed that that did not occur. We just kinda kept moving forward like we had been. At least we have mental health people in our schools, and there is more of an awareness of trying to help that.

Liza Holland [00:13:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. It it I kind of came away from the COVID thing with that same type of perspective that this would have been an amazing opportunity to really innovate and change, and people were just scared. I think they, you know, wanted to go back to the status quo as soon as they could and that sort of thing. So we just we have to keep on that innovation train, separate from this opportunity.

Mariam Lee [00:13:25]:
Yeah. And there's already a lot of change happening. So I understand consistency, and I understand that that doesn't necessarily work for all families, but we just kinda have to make it work as a whole or we aren't gonna have teachers, good quality teachers.

Liza Holland [00:13:43]:
Well and that's the thing. I mean, necessity is the mother of invention. Right? And so at at some point, we'll we'll hit some critical mass where we need to need to maybe make those major changes. I'd love to see the school day sort of blown up and reinvented as well because I think that kids would get a whole lot out of really well thought out shorter periods of time and time to be able to work on their own type of a thing while the teachers get to collaborate, all that kind of stuff. So but, you know, if I ran the world, it'd be different. So tell me a little bit about your work as an interventionist. What does that mean for those listeners who are not in the system?

Mariam Lee [00:14:27]:
K. So I transitioned into intervention, soon after COVID. And so as an interventionist, I serve k through five reading and math. So any, student or scholar that needs extra support in those, I, like, pull them for a very intense thirty minute lesson daily to, like, really get to their skill deficit and hopefully close that gap and get closer to tier one. But, of course, before just getting to me, I there's a lot of assessments, reviewing all the data. It's more than just one data point. It's multiple just really understanding the kids, their learning, and, like, where are their deficits and how I can support them. If they actually need me, or is it a motivation, or they didn't take their time? That's one thing that I'm trying to work on in general with teachers is understanding that just because they're low doesn't mean that they immediately come to me.

Mariam Lee [00:15:33]:
We have to do things in the classroom, and there's things that we have to change and modify. And because if you're coming to me, then that means they need all the support and extra support because everything that you have tried has not worked. So if you're getting to me, I'm trying to be very intentional. And if it still doesn't work, then it's possible that they move to special ed. But Okay. I'm just the in between person, I guess, is the best way to say an interventionist. I'm not the classroom teacher. I'm not the special ed teacher.

Mariam Lee [00:16:07]:
I'm trying to get them back onto,

Liza Holland [00:16:11]:
A main track type of a system. Okay. So how does that work? Because one of the things that I hear a lot is that, you know, kind of that definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is just crazy. So what kinds of things Well,

Mariam Lee [00:16:38]:
if Well, if they're an intervention, we have to have a research based program. So it has to be, like, very researched out. It's not just something that I'm just doing. And so, for example, one of the interventions I do is math recovery. And so most of the time, it's one on one, maybe up to three students. And so I do all these different assessments, and I start playing a lot of games just trying to figure out exactly how they do math. And so, for example, I might just give them a problem four plus seven, and I'm gonna see if they're just put four and then or put four fingers and then they're just counting up from seven, or are we counting four and then counting seven and then counting them all? Like, just trying to figure out exactly their thinking. Yeah.

Mariam Lee [00:17:33]:
So a lot of intervention, I feel like with what I do is questioning and keep asking them how do they figure that out. For because I want them to start self monitoring and start self correcting. I want them to also, like, be confident in their answers because some of the students that I work with, they lack motivation or confidence because they haven't had success in the classroom because they are struggling. So when I try when I when they come to me, my number one thing we do is goal set. So every week, we, do an assessment to see if they are growing or not. And so I have them look at that too, and so they know what the goal is. And since I've been doing this this year, we've had some really great gains because the kids have had buy in. Like, they know what they're supposed to be doing.

Mariam Lee [00:18:28]:
If I'm just sitting there talking and teaching and they're not doing anything or retaining or engaging, it's it's not gonna go anywhere. Yeah.

Liza Holland [00:18:38]:
But you have that specialized time with them that a lot of the teachers do not. I've got a a good friend who just said, you know, teaching has become so overwhelming because a good portion of her students have IEPs, and then a whole different section in that same classroom are ELL students. And then you have some just behavior troublemakers. And she's like, getting to actual teaching is so much more of a challenge than it used to be. So are you providing supports for the teachers as you bring the teachers back in to say, okay. So Johnny really processes this way. So if you present math to him and here are some tools to be able to do that, or how does that handoff happen?

Mariam Lee [00:19:22]:
Well, I'm also our MTSS lead, so multi tiered systems of support. So every six weeks, I meet with each grade level, and we review their, students' tier two and tier three data. And so we talk about all of that and just see where the growth is, see where why it's not growing, things that I can strategies that I can give to the teachers that they can implement immediately and see if that works the next six weeks when we come back. I'm talking about just changing interventions or if there's, like, attendance concerns or anything like that. That meeting is very encompassing and just trying to make the teachers and I know what the next steps are. But our primary focus is reviewing the data and seeing if it's working or not.

Liza Holland [00:20:09]:
I think that's something that the general public doesn't really realize, the depth to which you guys really do rely on data to be able to make your decision making and offering, research backed strategies that, you know, if the main way that we teach is not working, you're coming up with different ways that we'll be able to better match where those children's deficits are. I get angry at the the stuff that comes out in the media, and so much of it is this trivial stuff. And I'm like, you have no idea what professional levels these teachers and interventionists and everything else are meeting and strategizing and learning and and traveling to learn Right. The stuff that's been in the paper recently. You know, you're constantly having to iterate and learn new things and all that kind of a thing. I'd love for you to chat just a little bit more about about kind of that apathy and maybe the the self confidence with kids that they think, oh, well, I'm just stupid in math. And so they don't put the effort towards it that they might. What do you do to kinda reinstill that confidence that, okay, you may be struggling here, but you are doing real well over here, and, you know, let's capitalize on that or whatever.

Liza Holland [00:21:26]:
Tell us a little bit about how you approach students in in gaining their confidence so they'll engage again.

Mariam Lee [00:21:31]:
So, like I said before, we do goal setting. So weekly, we look at that. But, also, whenever we're working and working throughout the week on a strategy or a problem, whatever it is, and the kids are starting I can see them starting to shut down. I have a whole affirmation wall. And so I'm like, alright. Let's go take a walk. So we go walk to the affirmation wall, and I'm like, alright. Which one are we gonna say in our head three times? Some of them choose I can do hard things.

Mariam Lee [00:22:01]:
Some say I can stick with things until stick with things until I got it. And then you have I will do my personal best bet, like, 20 posters, and that way they can just choose whichever one that they feel like fits them. I will use my time wisely where I will focus. And so that, I have noticed, has also been helpful because there's one kid. Love her. Last year, she was trying to learn how to spell her name, and it was very difficult and long. And she cried the whole time, and I was like, you got this. You can do hard things.

Mariam Lee [00:22:34]:
She's She's like, I can do hard things. But she did it. After two weeks, we spelled her name. And so it's just like, you kinda have to be their biggest cheerleader. But, also, one thing that I always tell them, I will never ever ever ever ever give up on you, so you can never give up on yourself.

Liza Holland [00:22:52]:
See, I just think that's building resilience. And that is something that has been missing from our system for so long, you know, that it's okay to fail and try again and try again. And sometimes the best learning happens from failure. So that's so neat that you're doing that, and you're getting that social and emotional kick in there along with the academic learning. That's awesome.

Mariam Lee [00:23:13]:
Well, and I think we also should keep make sure that we're keeping kids accountable. Are they doing what we're asking them to do, and is it meeting our expectation? And like you said before, there's so much going on in the classroom that it might be difficult to do. So just starting to do that in a small way, whether that's just, like, looking at their center work and making sure that they're actually on the computer and doing what they're supposed to be doing. Because I think if you if they know that they're you're watching and monitoring and giving them feedback, they're more willing to do it because they're starting to see that growth too.

Liza Holland [00:23:52]:
I agree. And I think that that piece of productive struggle, you know, they talked to I was reading some, research about the difference between The US Students and those in Japan, And we almost over scaffold them in The United States. We're we're too quick to to jump in and tell them how how to do the next step. And then in Japan, in The US, they were spending about two to 5% of their time in productive struggle, and in Japan, it's 40% of the time. I was just shocked, but it made a lot of sense to me because kids are capable of figuring it out. They just need

Mariam Lee [00:24:27]:
to

Liza Holland [00:24:27]:
have that confidence in themselves. Right?

Mariam Lee [00:24:29]:
Or they'll just look at you like, what is it? And I'm like, try it.

Liza Holland [00:24:34]:
They're just waiting for you to give them the answer. Yeah.

Mariam Lee [00:24:37]:
And when I say try it or they're like, is it right? I'm like, I don't know. You tell me. And then they go back and check-in. They're like, yeah. I'm like, then be confident. You know what you're doing. Do it.

Liza Holland [00:24:48]:
That's so cool. So what would you say are your own personal biggest challenges in this new role?

Mariam Lee [00:24:55]:
In this new role, as I mentioned before, I think it's just teachers and parents understanding my role and just understanding how I can be a resource. Yeah. I think that's the biggest one right now, but I really I really enjoy being an interventionist because I get to work in small groups of students. But, also, I am all over the school, so I can meet all the kids. And one day, maybe they are with me, but I already have that, like, relationship with them in a non, like, what's the word? Not in a scary way. That makes sense.

Liza Holland [00:25:33]:
It does make it makes a lot of sense. And getting kids to understand that you're there to help as opposed to being a punitive measure is sometimes a real challenge, I can imagine. So this has been such a great conversation. I knew it was going to be, and it always goes too fast. But as a final thought, you know, you gave a really good example earlier about maybe thinking about a different school year as far as breaking it up to do an all year round. What else would you like decision makers to know?

Mariam Lee [00:26:02]:
Well, it's important that we continue to invest in our current teachers because that's I'm really concerned that continue to leave and we're not gonna have any more. And so the quality of teachers and the teacher knowledge, even having teachers with different experiences in this school is very important because one school, I just there was so many new teachers and you just and the turnover, so you just felt like you had to constantly teach new teachers year after year and not build upon that. So if we can invest in our current teachers and not burn them out, so we want to stay because I love my job, but it's it's very difficult. But being innovative on how we approach the educational needs, teachers leaving, lack of resources, and and just funding and just investment from our political leaders. I'm very happy that we have a governor that is very pro public education, so I'm glad that we have him on our side, and so I hope that we continue to have representation in the political because we don't know what the next four years is gonna look like.

Liza Holland [00:27:17]:
Well, I think that is is awesome and, and good things to put out into the universe there to remember to to speak to teachers and to to listen to what's going on and to make this investment because as to go all the way back to the beginning, it is the foundation of our society is to have a well educated populace. So

Mariam Lee [00:27:37]:
Well, and, also, not just our teachers, but our administrators. As many friends that are were teachers are now administrators, and it's not one of those jobs that you stay in twenty years. Like, it's one that also causes a lot of burnout, and that's we need good administrators as well to to keep our schools running. So we need to be looking out for them too.

Liza Holland [00:28:03]:
You need all those pieces of the puzzle. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Miriam, thank you so very, very much for taking the time to, to share your thoughts and to, to give some really good advice to our decision makers. Thank you so much for being a part.

Mariam Lee [00:28:19]:
Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:28:21]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.