Grammar as Art: Patty McGee’s Transformative Approach to Teaching Language

PODCAST Season 6 EPISODE 9

Patty McGee

Author, Educator, and Consultant 

Quotes of the Podcast: That is a wildly difficult question for a literacy person. So, I have narrowed it down to my favorite quote from the last book I read. “And when you open your heart to rewilding a landscape, the truth is, you’re opening your heart to rewilding yourself.” Once We Were Wolves by Charlotte McConaghy

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

 Patty McGee is a nationally recognized literacy consultant, speaker, and educator passionate about transforming classrooms into spaces where language and learning come alive. With decades of experience as a teacher, coach, and advocate for delightful literacy practices, Patty has worked alongside educators across the country, partnering to unlock the full potential of their students through innovative and practical teaching strategies. Not Your Granny’s Grammar is her third book. Connect with Patty at www.pattymcgee.org

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators 

• 30,000 Ft. View – Why so we, as a society invest in education?
• What drew you to education?
• A whole new approach to grammar instruction
• What are the biggest challenges to you?
• What would you like decision makers to know?”

Podcast/ website/ book shoutouts

Not Your Granny’s Grammar

Education Perspectives is edited by Shashank P

Intro and Outro by Dynamix Productions

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Education Perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve, to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education.

Liza Holland [00:00:28]:
Welcome, everybody, back to Education Perspectives. We are so excited to have. We have Patty McGee, who is recognized as a literacy consultant, speaker, and educator. And we are also very, very happy to know that she is the author of a marvelous book all around Grammar Instruction. So we'll get into that a little bit more, but again, very much appreciate you being here. Need to kick you off with our 30,000 foot question. Okay, so why do we as a society invest in education from your perspective?

Patty McGee [00:01:07]:
Oh, gosh. I have a couple of different responses to that. I think there are people who willingly invest in education because they know that there is possibility for. For those being educated, their futures, their lives, their learning possibilities. And then I think there's a group that funds education because it's the law and it's in taxes. And through a lot of different board meetings over my 31 years, I can see how much pressure is put on budgets to keep them as lean as possible because there's been concessions that, yes, I know I have to pay this, but don't make me pay anything extra. So I believe there are many people who do so happily, and sometimes it's because it keeps their property values higher. But I also think that there's a group that believes and knows that education can be the answer.

Liza Holland [00:02:17]:
That's a great response and very insightful because there really are different sides to the aisle. There aren't there? But I think you know me personally, our democracy doesn't work unless we have an educated public. So I love that question because everybody always has a slightly different answer. So speaking of education, what drew you to education and why grammar?

Patty McGee [00:02:42]:
Oh, well, I just always adored, admired, I should say my teachers, especially the ones who helped me understand things that were very difficult to understand, and especially those that I remember when I was young. And funny enough, the school that I went to growing up is the school I started teaching in, so.

Liza Holland [00:03:09]:
Oh, wow.

Patty McGee [00:03:10]:
Yes. My first grade teacher became the principal, and so she taught me how to read. And when I joined the school, she taught me how to teach.

Liza Holland [00:03:22]:
Wow, how exciting.

Patty McGee [00:03:23]:
Yeah. And what drew me to grammar was for a very long time and immediately a problem of practice for me. I did what I thought I was supposed to do. I can honestly say that I did not receive any instruction in any of my degrees that I've gotten around teaching grammar.

Liza Holland [00:03:47]:
Wow.

Patty McGee [00:03:48]:
And I wonder how many places not just teach grammar, but teach how to teach grammar. Because there hasn't been much evolution of how we teach grammar over the years. I think there's a lot of things we've tried, and many of those things, just because of the tone around grammar, may or may not work. And it was because it was a problem practice. When I started in the mid-90s, I just kept thinking about it. I kept, like, gnawing at the back of my head and I just kept an extra ear or eye out for. Does that seem more effective? Is that something I should play with? Is that something I should consider? Until finally I want to say it's about eight years ago, probably more than that, maybe 10 years ago, I was consulting in a school and we were writing curriculum for the grammar standards. And the supervisor of ELA in that district got up and taught us all about grammar in a way that made us all understand.

Patty McGee [00:04:56]:
Of course, there were some grammarians in the room, but he reached those of us who wouldn't consider ourselves grammarians. And he's my co author now because we said back 10 years ago, I think we should write a book on this one day. And that's so great. Yeah, it's awesome. So I have always been on the lookout, and this has been a process for quite a long time of really codifying the approach that I believe is currently the most effective.

Liza Holland [00:05:28]:
So tell me more about that, because you're right. There's two very different skill sets. Knowing grammar and being able to teach someone to know about grammar. I think back on my own experience, and so much of it is just. I know it because I learned it so long ago. It's now just a part of me and how I write and whatnot. But I now I can't really remember the rules and why, but I do do it. So tell me about what you're finding is working better, is working to, you know, kind of keep kids engaged in it.

Liza Holland [00:06:02]:
Because some people are like, it's a dying art form. We need to make sure to. To drill this more. And I'm not sure that's the way to do it.

Patty McGee [00:06:11]:
I agree it's a dying art form, but I don't agree that drill and worksheets are the best method in order for people to learn how to use grammar artfully. And that's really what we're looking for. And so here's the difference. And this is where the name of the book came in not your granny's grammar? Because I was trying to describe this to somebody who said, well, what's the difference between your approach to grammar and other grammar? And I said, well, for generations we've been handed worksheets to identify or complete diagramming sentences, but we never really had a bridge built from those experiences into writing, nor did we have a variety of entry points to be able to learn grammar. We just thought it was a static set of rules. And so the person asked me, so what are you saying? I said, I'm saying this is not your granny's grammar. And that's how the title came out.

Liza Holland [00:07:11]:
And so that's wonderful.

Patty McGee [00:07:14]:
I have found that when I have problems of practice instructionally, that yes, I read a lot and learn a lot from experts in the field. I also look outside of the school building and I say, well, what do we do naturally to learn something? And I love to refinish furniture with these special paints and waxes. And I just looked at that and I'm like, what do I do? Well, first I get curious, like, which paints might work here and hypothesize what I think would be the best treatment for that piece of furniture. And then I would go to a store that sold those paints and waxes and I asked for feedback. And that person also demonstrated for me, step by step, how to use the paints in the way that I'm envisioning so explicit teaching. And then before I would paint the furniture, I would play on different pieces of scrap wood or cardboard or, you know, just to kind of perfect what it is that I was trying to do before actually applying it to the furniture. And then I would revise and adjust. And that's what's great about these paints, is you can.

Patty McGee [00:08:34]:
And then after finishing something, I often reflected and would say, like, what do I really think worked here? What things do I need to work on? Or what am I still curious about? Which would start me in the next cycle of learning. And I came to realize that all of those entry points were missing from grammar instruction.

Liza Holland [00:08:59]:
Wow.

Patty McGee [00:09:01]:
Right? There wasn't any cure.

Liza Holland [00:09:02]:
It's pretty powerful, right? Yeah, no kidding. So how are you infusing all of that wonderful, amazing process into the grammar instruction?

Patty McGee [00:09:13]:
Well, we do all of those things in one day. I'm kidding. We don't.

Liza Holland [00:09:18]:
I was gonna say I was gonna have a lot of follow up questions.

Patty McGee [00:09:26]:
No, I like to think of grammar learning happening over time, accumulating like a snowball within a unit where we study related concepts. And so I believe that the place to start, even if we're starting a new grammar approach in the middle of a year, is at the sentence level. And I usually recommend simple, compound and complex sentences and studying those. And first just getting a bird's eye view of like how an author uses them, how often are they used? Because I'll have already done the identification on a text to say, like, the plain print is a simple sentence, the italics is compound and underlined is complex. And let's just look at this with a partner and think, what was this author thinking? What's the effect of this combination of sentences? And that's very short, maybe five minutes. It just wets our whistle a little bit before we start to dive into, say, simple and compound sentences. And that's where the pattern that I shared with you before of getting curious and hypothesizing, looking at the differences between the two, then having explicit instruction on both what makes up a simple sentence and how we can use two simple sentences to make compound sentences. So it's explicit instruction with step by step how to.

Patty McGee [00:11:01]:
And then after that is a couple of days. And when I say days, I mean 10 minute pockets of time. No slides needed, no bullying necessary. If there's anything that we need, perhaps it's projecting a document or it is scissors to cut things out. I love manipulatives and grammar. It's probably my favorite part where kids get together in partnerships and trios and play with whatever manipulative that is in order to create, in this case, compound sentences using simple sentences. And that kind of play is very different than a game. There is no winner or loser in this.

Patty McGee [00:11:49]:
And that really helps when it comes to learning and knowing and making mistakes without feeling a sense of shame or embarrassment. Where games, there's a winner and a loser. So let's say who can point? Actually, I did this with fly swatters, thinking this would work. Who can swat the noun in this sentence first? And of course, the kids that struggled with that would always be the loser. So what was I doing? And there's already enough shame around grammar. There's so much.

Liza Holland [00:12:23]:
There's so much shame in school in general, you know, and grammar is a high point of it. I totally agree with you. And really, the skill set that we need is to be able to do that iteration and that making a mistake and trying it again and making it a little bit better and a little bit better. So that's a magical thing to bring to this process.

Patty McGee [00:12:44]:
Yes. So with that play that I put up little barriers where there's no shame, we Follow those few days with a time to reflect. What do you know for sure about simple and compound sentences? What are you still curious about? Which is inevitably. Can we put. There's somebody who says, and I've taught this in second grade all the way up through high school. There's always somebody who says, can we have three simple sentences in a sentence? And I'm like, ooh, let's explore that. Or some other great things. Like, I'd like to use the word because to put these two sentences together.

Patty McGee [00:13:30]:
And my response is, I can teach you how to do that, but it wouldn't be a compound sentence. So there's that point of curiosity of, I'm not going to tell you everything you need to know. I am going to tell you some things that you need to know on that explicit teach day, and then I'm going to be the concierge that helps you discover them on your own.

Liza Holland [00:13:54]:
Oh, that's so magical. Smoke. Do you. So often we. Are we silo teaching into. Okay, this is a curriculum that we're going to do now we're going to do this one. Now we're going to do this one. This, it seems to me, would lend itself to infusing into any kind of literary curriculum.

Liza Holland [00:14:14]:
Yeah, right. You know, when you're talking about plot and setting and all those other kinds of things, grammar is another way that you can look at it and be curious. Have you found that to be the case, or is that how you like to do it?

Patty McGee [00:14:26]:
Yeah. In fact, it kind of came to me post publication where I started to think about grammar manipulatives and how we can use them in different content areas. So, for example, one of the manipulatives that I like to use in grammar is a sort. So we might sort create a sort around nouns, verbs and those that can act as both. And with the seventh grade social studies group in a nearby middle school, I was like, I bet you we can use this sort to teach content, to introduce content while using grammar. So what we did was we created a sort based on ancient China, which was the next unit. And we put phrases and clauses about a time period in ancient China. And the first thing we asked the kids to do in partnerships or trios, that's essential, by the way, was to sort them in whatever categories they wanted to.

Patty McGee [00:15:31]:
So in one situation it was good, bad, mid. So, you know, very good.

Liza Holland [00:15:40]:
Yeah.

Patty McGee [00:15:41]:
And then we challenged them to sort into phrases and clauses. And of course, we reminded them we weren't going to send them on this sorting adventure without Just giving them a little reminder. There is a verb in a clause and a noun that goes with it, where in a phrase it doesn't have that. And so they looked so closely at the nouns and the verbs of ancient China. So it was like people and places that they were learning the actions that were happening during this historical period, what the outcomes were by studying it with a grammatical eye.

Liza Holland [00:16:24]:
Oh, I love that.

Patty McGee [00:16:25]:
It was so cool. And then we asked the kids to now even take your clauses and put them into dependent and independent clauses. And of course explained you'll likely see a word at the front that makes it dependent, that might be a word you've heard before. And we give some examples, they sort them again into those two types of clauses. And then the last step is to compare one group to another group, set them up in a group of those pairs or trios, and to see if they have the same thing in their sorts and if they don't, deliberate over where they go and why. It's just so rich in learning about content, learning about grammar. And also it's practically free and all that critical thinking.

Liza Holland [00:17:24]:
Holy moly. I love that.

Patty McGee [00:17:26]:
It was really something special. And since then I've done other content work in the same way. So we can do this with any type of content and any categories that we'd like to use. So it, it just is a win, win in so many ways. I love that it's free practically. I love that all we need to do is input whatever we'd like into a grid, cut them out and share them, and then give challenges with them.

Liza Holland [00:17:58]:
That is so awesome. Tell me a little bit more about why it's so critical that kids are working in groups rather than individually.

Patty McGee [00:18:08]:
Yeah, well, first of all, standard grammar, actually, I'm going to back into this question a little bit.

Liza Holland [00:18:14]:
No problem.

Patty McGee [00:18:15]:
I think about grammar in three buckets. That there's spoken grammar, that's by community, that's by homes. A lot of the grammar in my family comes from the things that me and my siblings said when we were young or my own kids said when we were young. And it's not grammatically correct, but it is our grammatically correct and our way of saying things. And communities have the same. And it's beautiful because it really can impact the other two buckets. The center bucket is, I would say, what I call book grammar, where it's grammar usage intentionally for the audience. So if our audience is very academic, we turn to that third bucket of standard grammar.

Patty McGee [00:19:06]:
So whatever the standards are in each state or whatever style Guide you're following depending on how old or young you are.

Liza Holland [00:19:13]:
Chicago ip.

Patty McGee [00:19:15]:
Yep. And here's the thing that happens. Spoken grammar influences book grammar. And the author is intentionally deciding, based on their audience, how much of each will be included in here or not. So it's like artfully creating on the page.

Liza Holland [00:19:36]:
You know, that is so amazing because grammar is so often presented as a black or white, and you're really talking about it as a storytelling device. I love that. That is so smart.

Patty McGee [00:19:51]:
It's like living, breathing.

Liza Holland [00:19:54]:
Yeah. And changing.

Patty McGee [00:19:56]:
Yes, exactly. In fact, I took some time to just find quotes from different centuries, starting with the 16th century, and just listed them out. And you can hear that we almost don't understand the grammar from the 16th century. And as we get closer to today, it starts to make more sense to us. And the rules were different. Like, for example, back in the 16th century, they would capitalize their most important words in their sentence, rather than today we capitalize names.

Liza Holland [00:20:29]:
Interesting. Yeah, I mean, the evolution of grammar as an art form, as it were. I mean, it's an art and it's a science. Right? But yeah, I could see that. And over time, as things change, little things like punctuation can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And I love that with the choice of how it's represented. Interesting. That makes me think of so many of the things I read and I'm like, hmm, what is the author doing with this?

Patty McGee [00:20:56]:
Yes, exactly. So we hear a lot of spoken grammar, so we're very good with that. We, if we're reading or are read to, we're then exposed to book grammar. But standard grammar is rarely part of our discussion. Talking out loud. Using grammar that is that aligns with the standards aloud helps co build grammar. Know how if we're solo, it's not letting us do that. And I can tell you that in most of my experiences in being taught grammar, and most of the time when I was in the classroom, it was a silent experience, unless it was the teacher talking.

Patty McGee [00:21:42]:
And by using oral language to develop grammar knowledge, both by hearing it, but also co constructing meaning through all of these entry points that I described is highly effective. We're using the social brain.

Liza Holland [00:21:59]:
You know, a lot of my work is kind of around the durable skills that employers are asking for. And this just really strikes me as a really effective way to build some of those skills, particularly in the communication and flat out storytelling space that a lot of kids unfortunately coming into the work world today have not had as much of an opportunity to build. And boy, just this change in how you approach it would over time build so many of those skills. The collaboration amongst, in between, the critical thinking, the, you know, the communication, all of it. What a brilliant way to teach. Very, very cool. What are the biggest challenges that you find? Cause this is a very different way to approach teaching grammar. Do you run into roadblocks with people about, well, this is the way we've done it forever.

Liza Holland [00:23:00]:
What kind of challenges have you had in trying to make this change in how grammar is taught?

Patty McGee [00:23:06]:
Yeah, I would say the biggest challenge that I'm finding is asking teachers to let go of some things, to let go of the lesson plan design and only think of this as grammar experiences that are connecting to the former experience and helping build knowledge over time. And to do so, please bring as few things as possible. Just the necessities to this work. I would project something perhaps that I've already made, like a chart. I might write out a chart on chart paper. The manipulatives I like to print and if needed, cut. I don't want a set of slides that is going to, number one, take the teacher a whole lot of time to create. And number two, almost take us away from being really responsive and curious when there's things that are like the boss of what we're doing and that can be slides.

Patty McGee [00:24:12]:
That's the part that I feel has been the hardest, is letting things go, keeping it simple. When I demo for teachers, they're like, that's it. I'm like, that's it on my part. But look at the students like there was a seventh grade classroom. So many of these cute stories. But I was personally teaching a number of experiences and I told them it's a new way perhaps of learning grammar. And when I was walking out, there was this seventh grade boy that stood up and said, that's so much better than the old way.

Liza Holland [00:24:47]:
I love it.

Patty McGee [00:24:48]:
Yes, me too.

Liza Holland [00:24:49]:
I love that. So as you get up into. Because it seems to me that grammar is something that there would just be a value in having exposures regularly over time, as opposed to, okay, in fourth grade, we're going to teach grammar, grammar, and then we're off to something else. How does your teaching evolve when you get up to high school or, you know, maybe even a collegiate type of a level?

Patty McGee [00:25:20]:
Yeah.

Liza Holland [00:25:21]:
Do you get more into the nuance of authors and how they are choosing to use their grammar, that sort of thing?

Patty McGee [00:25:27]:
Definitely. That's why I really like to start off with usually mentor text that I've had to revise myself because usually most Printed mentor texts are created by an author who chooses to use or misuse grammar. So it's really hard to find something that is grammatically aligned to the standards. And even something like academic studies that I've read still insert in just the right places through anecdotal data, some spoken grammar. And so knowing that, are we teaching grammar so that we get the answers right on the sat, or are we teaching grammar for usage, or are we doing both? And I would argue that both all the way up and through the grade levels and even at the collegiate level, because many times MLA is the guide we use in middle school and high school, and then sometimes or eventually we're faced with apa. And my second book was Chicago Style. So if I had the chance to play with the concepts, getting curious about what makes Chicago Style in this area, how do we do it? Somebody teaching me, me having a chance to play so that I'm not going straight from you taught it to me. Now I'm creating exactly what I'm supposed to on the page.

Patty McGee [00:27:05]:
We need space to play and try. And then if there are further queries, we can say when we get older, perhaps then we ask them. And that way it's grammar for usage. But it's also valid that we want kids to be able to do well on an assessment of whatever grammatical things are being assessed. And so we do expose them to the types of questions that will be asked. I want to say, though, teaching for usage makes teaching for the test easier.

Liza Holland [00:27:41]:
I can totally see that. I really can, because honestly, to me, a test is a byproduct to some extent. I mean, I know in education that probably is taboo, but to me it's, do you understand and can you use and apply this type of information? And the reality is, when you graduate, it's not going to be the SAT or ACT types of things. It's going to be, can you communicate effectively with your collaborators in your workspace? Can you communicate effectively? Maybe you go into academia with fellow academicians, can you back it down to. For marketing and communications, they say to bring it down to an eighth grade level. And grammar is so much a part of that, those nuances and who can understand it? I think that's kind of magical because you're right. I mean, it's kind of been that, oh, it's grammar time in school. And realistically, that's what.

Liza Holland [00:28:47]:
What makes your communication more powerful. I was always the why kid? Why do I need to know this? And to me, that's the answer is it will make your Communication so much more effective if everybody who's reading it can understand it in the same way.

Patty McGee [00:29:01]:
Yes, 100%. And also there are some things that I would like to either add or remove from just the culture around grammar. I would like to remove every sign or mug that says I'm silently correcting your grammar, or any T shirt or flag or whatever it might be that says grammar police. Or I've seen in classrooms, usually middle school, a list of fatal flaws of grammar usage. It's like punitive and intimidating and. Exactly. And so I'd like to replace that with grammar is art just the way a paintbrush is to a painter, grammar is to writing to a writer, just

Liza Holland [00:29:52]:
like a painter uses geometry. You have all these rules and whatnot within grammar, but it. How you apply it is going to be different in many different use cases. That's so beautiful. I love that I'm really going to have to. This came up fairly quickly, so I've not had a chance to read your book yet, but now I'm going to have to go read this book. This sounds really marvelous.

Patty McGee [00:30:14]:
Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:30:15]:
So if you were talking to decision makers and you can define whoever that that is, it could be legislators setting standards and curriculum. It could be principals, could be even just teachers. What would you want them to know about this new way of approaching the teaching of grammar and how the kids respond to it?

Patty McGee [00:30:39]:
Well, first, at the legislative level, I would like each state to let me get my hands on their grammar standards. Like I'm in New Jersey. And in New Jersey, we have compound sentences to be learned in second grade and then in sixth grade, to vary our sentence structure, we have skipped over complex sentences. And then by seventh grade, we need to know. I don't know if it's still there, but in many cases are the compound, complex sentences. There are so many gaps in the continuity that can be created and the grade levels in which we're expecting mastery for some things and the knowledge that, you know, as writers, we are conductors of an orchestra. We are trying to make meaning on the page. And we need to know when the flutes come in and how to play a flute.

Patty McGee [00:31:39]:
And we need to know how loud the drums are going to be, but also know all of that percussion. And we need to know when the horns are going to come in and which ones. And we need to be the person to make that all happen. So when we forget a period which is driving people crazy, and I understand why, but when we forget a period, it's not there at the moment because they're conducting the flutes. They haven't gotten to the trumpets yet. And it's not to say. We can't just say, okay, let's do a two minute edit today. Look for punctuation.

Patty McGee [00:32:13]:
It still gives them the chance, but it also allows the conducting of the orchestra.

Liza Holland [00:32:20]:
I love the whole metaphor. Maybe it's an analogy. I'm not really sure. Isn't that terrible? But that is a wonderful way to look at all of this application. And again, pulling it away from this is one specific standard piece that we need to check boxes on to a layered multidisciplinary type of an approach around communication. I just think that's pretty magical.

Patty McGee [00:32:50]:
Me too. Here's one little thing that I haven't mentioned that stands in the way of the magic. Aside from the shame that I was talking about, teachers also feel a sense of shame for not knowing grammar. It's hard to admit. And when I did my own anecdotal research around what are the needs in grammar, just because it was one on one, the thing that rose to the top is I don't understand grammar myself, so how am I going to teach it? And because of that, it shows us two things. One, for most of the people, and these are teachers, so obviously they've gotten degrees. Most of them multiple that the type of grammar instruction that was used in the days of yore wasn't effective for most people. And two, that a new approach, but also just an acceptance that grammar is not simply memorized.

Patty McGee [00:33:50]:
There are things that will be memorized. It's not the route to go. It is part of the route. It's a tool on the route, but it is not memorization for everything. It's also. That's like really low on the depths of knowledge too.

Liza Holland [00:34:07]:
Exactly. And again, what are we doing this for? We're doing this to prepare people, students for real life communication and whatnot. And the more I think about you talking about the punitive piece of it, the more that just really brings power because the teachers are feeling that from they're going back in time and feeling that shame and now it's being resurfaced again. And so they want to get through it as soon as possible because it's a painful experience. And what you're suggesting is really making it much more of a magical discovery experience. And what a wonderful flip, isn't it? It really, really is. So I do have one last question for you because I recently saw a a post on Facebook advocating for bringing back Schoolhouse Rock. Oh, what are your thoughts about Schoolhouse Rock?

Patty McGee [00:35:06]:
I think if they're part of broader experience of learning like conjunction junction, what's your function? I would totally love that. If that's the only thing, then it's not enough but music around grammar to help us remember. Yeah, I'm all for it.

Liza Holland [00:35:27]:
Me too. Because it was just so much fun and it's bringing that was the piece that made me ask the question was thinking about that was the time that I had fun with grammar when I was growing up and learning. And so maybe just bringing back that little bit of fun is the workaround to the end of our conversation here because that is going to be a magical piece for a lot of students. So thank you so much for all you do.

Patty McGee [00:35:53]:
Thank you. And thank you for having me. It's a really nice discussion.

Liza Holland [00:35:57]:
Well, it was delight to have you on Education Perspectives.

Liza Holland [00:36:02]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.