Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Inside Rehabilitation Counseling
Independent Living Centers with Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CRC
The Center for Independence of the Disabled, New York (CIDNY), founded in 1978, is a Manhattan-based non-profit organization advocating for the civil rights and independence of New Yorkers with disabilities. In 2024, CIDNY served over 40,000 consumers, connecting them to community programs and prodiving peer-support to address the challenges of living with a disability in a major metropolitan area.
Our guest for this episode is Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CRC, Director of Vocational Employment Rehabilitation, who aptly quoted the Liam Neeson film Taken when describing that she sees CRCs as having a very particular set of skills. In our conversation, we highlighted the work of her and her peers at CIDNY and talk about the ways in which many of the challenges facing people with disabilities today make CRCs more vital than ever.
Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, and what is the final episode of 2025? I'm CRCC Director of Communications and Marketing Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited to bring you another conversation exploring the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. The Center for Independence of the Disabled New York, or CIDNY, was founded in 1978 and is a Manhattan-based nonprofit organization advocating for the civil rights and independence of New Yorkers with disabilities. In 2024, CIDNY served over 40,000 consumers, connecting them to community programs and providing peer support to address the challenges of living with a disability in a major metropolitan area. Our guest today is Sara Schacter-Erenburg, Director of Vocational Employment Rehabilitation at Sydney, who aptly quoted the Liam Neeson film Take In when describing that she sees CRCs as having a very particular set of skills. In our conversation, we highlighted the work of her and her peers at Sydney and talk about the ways in which many of the challenges facing people with disabilities today make CRCs more vital than ever. Sarah, thank you so much for your time today and for joining me here on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. We like to start with every guest, uh kind of at the beginning of how you became a certified rehabilitation counselor. So how did you get started on this journey and when did you first learn about the work of rehabilitation counseling?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:Sure. Thank you for having me. Um I graduated from college with a bachelor's in philosophy, which is not incredibly useful in many ways if you don't go to law school. And I was looking for work and I'd always enjoyed social services and nonprofit work and working with people and being a camp counselor. And I got a job working at the National Multiple Scrolls Society uh Washington, D.C. chapter. And I got to meet social workers and CRCs and recreation counselors. So I've got to see all these different master's level clinicians and what they did. And I really was so interested in the the CRC work. Um guy's there. I think he's still there, actually. His name's Steve. And um he was wonderful and really um looked at the totality of the experience for the clients coming in to the MS Society, you know, most of us being an adult onset disability, the impact on people's work tends to become uh more active in people in their 30s. And so really addressing their work changes and their need for accessibility, the relapsing remitting aspect of it. There's just, it was so complex and so human, but it really took into account the experience for people of being in the world, how much work is impacted and how much your work impacts your own life as well. So I was like, oh, this is a really good thing. So I looked into programs and found one. Um I decided to move back to New York and found uh the Hunter program, which uh seemed like a great fit.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah, it's a great program. And it's nice that you were able to kind of um, like many people do, stumble into kind of this space. And I think all of us are tangentially aware of disabilities, or um, maybe we have friends, family, maybe us ourselves have a disability, and you um getting that practical experience of seeing, you know, just how how multifaceted it is to live with a condition and all of the different things that go into that. And one of the things that I really enjoy about getting to talk with uh CRCs such as yourself is this is a profession that's literally directed at uh approaching all of those multifaceted elements and and saying, you know, like we're not just gonna look at part of what disability does to impact this individual, we're gonna look at all of it. And it's um it it's a really fascinating way to rethink, you know, an abilities approach to how do you navigate something you're experiencing rather than saying, well, here's all the deficits that you have, and you know, um acknowledging those, but also taking into consideration that there are paths to navigate around those or through those. And uh without professionals like yourself, that would be much, much harder for a lot of people. So we're grateful for the work you do. Um, you serve as the director of vocational employment rehabilitation at the Center for Independence of the Disabled in New York as part of a larger system of programs and services that the organization offers. What should people know about the work that your organization does and what role does it play in serving the disabled population in New York?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:So Sydney is amazing. And yeah, I've been working in this field for 20 some odd years in New York City, and always have known about Sydney because it is grown from the activism community and the work done in the 70s by um self-advocates and activists to change the laws. Um there's a there's a movie that's actually required of new employees to watch at Sydney called Crip Camp, which is amazing if anyone's ever watched it. Um it's a little window into the 70s, which is really funny as well. But um to see people um it's pure activism, you know, taking over government buildings and saying, you know, this isn't okay what that what people are doing, um, how people with disabilities are put into nursing homes and not given a chance to live in the community because the community is not accessible and because their um their benefits don't support them living in the community, and really changed how society and how the government supports people with disabilities and provides um appropriate uh access. So after those laws were passed in the 70s, um places like Sydney and other independent living programs were developed uh nationwide. And so we support people with disabilities and their families in a lot of ways. We don't do a lot of the programs. We're not running a group home, we're not running nursing homes, but we have a huge program here at Sydney that helps people move out of nursing homes and back into their own home or into the more community setting. We support people in accessing their benefit, so applying for services here in New York, the Office for People with Developmental Disability Services, so that they get support for intellectual and developmental disabilities. Um we have a vocational program, which is um is my program, and just really we have lawyers on staff that also can talk about, you know, what are your rights? And then we have advocates that work directly in the governmental space. And I think that that's the piece that Sydney has into the awareness of the impact of the community and society on people with disabilities. And that, you know, I was I was in a meeting recently and and someone said, Oh, I don't really follow politics. It was a professional org meeting and never really follow politics, or I don't really, you know, it doesn't really impact. Everything we do is a political and inherently the work that we do is political, or code of ethics is um is a political statement. And um, and in this this time and this year, it is a direct call to action to move um against the the attacks on people, uh, people with disabilities, people who are marginalized. And so Sydney comes from that mindset and and from that history. So I'm really excited and and um feel very lucky to be part of a a program and an agency that does this work so intentionally.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah, it it's it's fascinating and um essential work that's being done. And there's there's a history there that, as you pointed out, is tied to how far things have come. I think in a lot of moments, um, it's very easy to see all of the space we still have to go to get to where an equitable society for people with disabilities would be something that people are experiencing and not having to constantly advocate for as an individual, let alone as a community or as a larger uh disabled population. But I have taught to CRCs, we've had a couple on this podcast actually, who were uh either alive and advocating or just, you know, around in a pre-ADA world. And it's it's hard to grasp for folks who maybe weren't involved in that or a part of that or around for that, to understand how much effort, you know, any major piece of legislation like that doesn't just get done because they're like, oh, we're gonna, you know, let's let's go ahead and do this for it takes advocacy. And um disability advocacy is such an important aspect of not only better understanding the disabled experience, particularly for people who aren't disabled or don't have a very hands-on experience with disability, but also for really normalizing the fact that these aren't a different type of person or neighbor from you. The otherization of not understanding a group or a community can really start to be, you know, broken down when you hear from these people and they're advocating for themselves and hopefully gathering others who are uh, you know, maybe not even experiencing those things to advocate alongside them. And it's it's crucial for there to be community organizations that are uh focused on being a part of that positive change. And, you know, an organization is made up of people, right? So folks like you and and your colleagues who are part of that lineage of all the work that Sydney's done and um all that continues to be done. I mean, it's kind of like rewriting history and and working toward a better future every single day. And I think CRCs do that in number a number of work settings, but particularly working so closely with these community programs, it's um it's essential work that is so fascinating to see being done because as an outsider who doesn't do what you do, I'm like, that's incredible that that exists. And we need to do what we can to continue to support and uh and celebrate it. So we're grateful for all of the efforts that you're you're you're putting in. And you know, as a director working in vocational rehabilitation with Sydney, um, we know we have a lot of listeners who are maybe not at that director level or they don't have a program they're running themselves. And we've gotten questions when we've had folks on uh with similar roles to you about kind of like how does that change your day-to-day as opposed to just maybe being like a a regular vocational rehabilitation counselor? So I am curious to hear what is a day or a week, maybe even like a month? Um, and I know it's probably gonna change right every single day, every single week, but what are some of those essential elements that your department brings to Sydney and and how are you involved in those?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:So um it's interesting because you know I moved to Sydney from a position where I was doing just pure CRC, you know, counseling work um through um HRA, through public benefits here in New York. And I wasn't supervising staff. I just would meet with the clients. We developed a vocational plan and I'd set them free into the world. And it was very different. So now working um in this role, um, in a director role, I've I've been in and out of management. And sometimes you need a break from management. It's a different thing. I mean, no one goes into social services saying, you know, I want to look at quarterly reports. Like I don't think that any of us sit for a C or C and say, oh, this is great. Now I can look at grant proposals or anything. But, you know, it's it's that's how it goes. You know, if you do your job and you interest and you you find places where you can grow, sometimes you grow up in in jobs and gain responsibility. So for myself, um, you know, I've sort of when I needed to step back and I wanted to do real rehabilitation work, I step back and said, I need to do this again for a little while and just remember why I do what I do. And because it's about that I want to sit with people, I want to talk with them, I want to, you know, help them figure out what their strengths are and what they're interested in. Um, and when I sometimes I miss that. So I do try to uh take a case here and there. So I have um three programs right now. One of them um is not really CRC focused. We support a veterans program um where we partner with the VA to help veterans have home health aids from their family within their home so they can stay in their home. And it's um so I just manage that and it's just a partnership with the VA. So a little less CRC focused. Um, but then we have a vocational program and a peer support program that we are partnered with Access VR, the state uh vocational agency here in New York. And so, you know, an average day today's pretty average day. I've had a couple of calls, uh, you know, to sort of talk to other um other resources to try to connect with them, um, to provide resources for our clients here. I do supervision, so I support my staff. My staff are um have experience in their either peer support or they have some clinical experience in their master's level clinicians, um, but they have, you know, you can you can't teach the ethics, you can't teach the the drive to help. It's just skill building and counseling. So when I do supervision, you know, we're gonna talk about you know what's going on, we do case review into that and see how things are going for them and help them build tour whatever their professional goals are. You know, there is a fair amount of you know, reviewing cases and seeing what I can do to um ensure that we're providing the supports. We don't have a huge vocational team, so it's really just making sure that we're staying aware of you know what's going on with each of the clients that come in, making sure that we're staying connected to resources. Yeah, and then if someone comes in, we do a walk-in. So sometimes I'm the person here, sometimes it's my other folks after and if it's me, then I talk to them and then I get that moment that's always great, uh, where I get to be a CRC again.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Well, I I think you you responding to that question kind of brought something to mind from me where a lot of folks who pursue this work, you know, you you're not age 10 going, I want to be a certified rehabilitation counselor. Most people are finding out about this much later, um, which is something that we need to work on, right? Uh that's my job. Um but I I do think, you know, these are people uh such as yourself who are uh called to work with social services or a helping profession. However, there's plenty of different terms for it, but you know that you want to make the difference. And I do think that there's something to be said about any organization that you join that is value-driven or looking to make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. There are still policies and procedures and systems that you have to operate in that um can be the difference between things going smoothly or, you know, the more people you have to consult and get in the loop and stuff, things get difficult quickly. And I do think that part of the training of a CRC, with so much of it being tied to counseling and disability and rehabilitation and things like that, there are also plenty of skills that you're developing to be the right person to be in that room, sitting in on meetings or collaborating with other like-minded organizations or community partners, because you're bringing to light the knowledge that you have about disability and that experience, but also kind of that that professional development that occurs through the master's program and that pursuit of the CRC credential where you can speak on a personal level about, you know, the impact the disability has on someone, but also have the language and the fluency to be able to talk about the broader implications of disability. And that's not only at an individual level, it's it's very much at a community level. And having that knowledge, I think, brings a unique perspective to those meetings. Um, there are a lot of uh state agencies or organizations where they're working with people with disabilities and there's not a CRC in the room. And that's something that we want to see more often is that there is a CRC in the room who can bring that unique perspective because the the things you have to do in your master's program and to prepare for the CRC exam are so multifaceted. That's a very unique and important blend of skills that I think are very important to have. And I I am always curious when talking to people such as yourself about, you know, how does that relationship with wanting to make a difference and help change when you're kind of in that more managerial director role? And I think a lot of people have the same response that you do, where it's like, well, I'm in a lot more meetings than I am working all the time with people one-on-one. This was a very long-winded way of saying that still is so important to the work of what CRCs are trained and educated to do, because without people advocating at the level you're at, it's it's easy to understand why um things get left out or people get left behind, unfortunately. And I think you bring a very unique blend of perspectives and education to that room, which is so vital.
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:I think, you know, it's interesting because I think that this is a lost opportunity for corporations, HR, all these places. You know, I I have worked in HR before in staff development and training. And, you know, I was at an event the other day, and one of our state controller or city controller, Brad Lander, who's a strong advocate and supporter of um of Sydney and just all around great, great person, um, he said, you know, disability sort of comes for us all, you know, the human body is fragile. And I think that what I've discovered when working in like HR settings where you're working with people who are looking at, you know, sort of the general work of the um of the staff and not thinking about disability, not thinking about what's best for a worker is that you forget that these are people and a CRC is able to come in and say, okay, this is what's important to a worker, this is what's important, you know, this is um, this is how you make a work uh work site accessible and safe and supportive, what people need psychologically to be safe at work, what people need physically to be safe at work, and how they value their work. And you know, I've had people say, well, the reinforcer is the the paycheck. It's not true. And if you think that, then you're you're a terrible boss. But you know, I think I think that this is if if if companies and it just happens in nonprofits where you know you tend to be in every meeting and for everything, you know, but if even larger companies really access the skill sets that CRC's had and said, let's put them in an HR setting where we talk about, you know, supporting our workforce, supporting our learners, because again, because the way Sydney is is disigned, if you will, the way independent living centers are designed, 50% more than 50% of our staff have to be people with a disability or identify self-identify with a disability. Let's be real, most work sites have that anyway. I mean, there's so many things and people don't realize they have a disability. Oh, I just have anxiety. Well, it's also, you know, you're it's a thing and you're living with it and it impacts your life, and you're allowed to have it impact or not impact your life, and you're allowed to have it be supported in the workplace and what you need. And so I think that I would love to see more CRCs in an HR, maybe a social worker or something, because we do have a very, you know, it's like that movie. They have a very particular set of skills. I always tell people it's a very particular set of skills, not murdery, like in the movie, but it's just uh, you know, and we should people need to see it. I wish they did. I think once they find out they're like, oh, oh, that is useful.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:So yeah. If if we start calling CRCs the Liam Neeson of the Health and Human Services world, I'll give you co-authorship on that marketing. Um because I've never written something down faster. Um I I think you made you you made some really great points. And I'm again just uh happy we're having this conversation because I feel like a million ideas are coming to my mind. And I think one of the things that I think about a lot when it comes to like the American workforce is how many folks are staying in the workforce longer than they have traditionally in the past. And something that concerns me is it. HR departments or or you know companies have people who are staying in the workforce longer, and maybe someone all of a sudden is having trouble with vision, an age-related uh disability or condition starts to arise as they're um as they're growing older. I I'm very worried that it's going to be looked at as like, well, we can't keep them because now and I I don't share the sentiment, but I don't want it to be something where people go, well, they're just old now. Because you don't understand, like you said, similar to anxiety, that age-related disabilities are still disabilities. And those are things that we are going to see more of as people are unable to retire or staying in the workforce longer and delaying retirement. And having a CRC in the room can be the difference between someone shrugging someone's mobility issues they didn't have five years ago off as, oh, they're really slowing down or they're having a lot of people. Let's write them up first.
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:Yeah, yeah.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Yeah, or like, oh, they're, you know, they just don't have it in them anymore. And the difference between how do you set them up with a relatively low-cost um accommodation potentially to continue to do that work. And I think, you know, I don't I want to hope that most people aren't mean-spirited and just think of everyone as like, oh, they are the limitations I can see in them and nothing else. But we do know that sometimes, especially with uh things we don't understand, people jump to conclusions or make assumptions. And I'd much rather have a CRC in the room to correct those things than to see people who are needing to stay in the workforce uh for whatever reason get um told that they can't work there anymore or, you know, let go because someone doesn't understand what they need to be able to do their job. And, you know, there's a million other examples as well with invisible disabilities and mental health and things like that. And um really comes back to how important it is to have someone in the room um that knows disability and knows, you know, what those limitations are functionally, but also what can be done to mitigate those and find ways to make everyone involved um happy with the collaboration taking place. So I think that's a huge role that CRCs everywhere can be playing on a daily basis. But yeah, getting more CRCs into those HR departments and things like that. We talked to some folks who are in that space and we're like, you know, trying to pick their brain for like, how do we get more of you? What who do we need to talk to? And I know that's a goal of ours for 2026 is to do a lot more employer outreach. You have a unique program at Sydney called the Peer Services Project that I was really interested in that provides enrollees with helpful training and guidance on things like self-sufficiency and independence, uh, which are things that, you know, from your explanation at the top are central to why Sydney exists for the community and from healthcare uh self-management to understanding employment rights. What has the response been to any of the clients or consumers who have gone through that program? And um why is it so crucial for um a CRC such as yourself to be overseeing that program with all the different offerings it has for the folks you serve?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:So the peer support program has been amazing and and we've had um really good success so far um with our referrals coming in and sort of the uh positive experience for uh the clients and and as they meet with a peer counselor. So we have peer counselors and we partner with Access VR again, the vocational program here in New York State. And they they're still the vocational counselor, they're all CRCs, you know. So it's it's it's half my graduating class went to uh Vermont or went to Access. As we all know, you can't, you know, you need a scaffolding in order to not just obtain a job, but to maintain it, you know, if your housing isn't stable, if you don't, you know, you have difficulty with your benefits, if you're concerned about your social security, um, food insecurity of your transportation, how to self-advocate um on the job, all of those things are necessary. And we can shoehorn people into jobs. You know, there's always someone who wants the tax break to hire somebody from you know the public rules, and then yeah, and then, but how does that go? And so our goal is to partner them with our peer counselors who, you know, have been trained in benefits counseling and and helping with um discussions about transportation, getting those applications in and self-advocacy, how to handle these questions on the job, just as a partnership with their CRC at AMSISVR. Um and it's it's a really it's it's a focus that you don't always get when you're working through a state agency. And and our ex office is amazing and they're very um responsive with their clients. And so, you know, certainly no shade to them, but it just is what it is, and you can't have those bigger conversations sometimes. And as a CRC, you know, my staff, they are very bright and they are, you know, very committed to what they've done and they've lived through all this. They're peer support. So they're people with disabilities who've gone through college, who've gone through the job search, who've worked. Um and um so you know, lived experiences is is amazing and something that you know people bring to the table that is is not replicable in any way. As a clinician, I want to make sure that they have the support that they need, they know how to have these difficult conversations. Um, you know, I think very often for my staff who are not clinically trained because of the nature of the work that I do, um, the staff are some of the only people who might be saying to somebody, so how's it going? And then when you ask someone, how's it going, they're gonna tell you, how's it going? You know, if you're the only one, they they need to talk. And so I need to make sure that my staff know how to handle that. So if they're protected emotionally and they're protected, you know, um, and they know what to say or how to handle that sort of thing because it's so overwhelming, as you know, and you know, you are you realize, oh wow, someone's really struggling. You know, I had a we had a referral for a client who was dealing with a lot of different things um related, you know, it's New York City, housing is an issue, um, immigration status, um food insecurity, schooling for children. I mean, just you know, all those things can happen for a person. And, you know, we knew that going in. And so I really wanted to make sure that the peer counselor knew, you know, you're gonna you're working toward this employment goal, but they're gonna unload and they're gonna talk to you, and that's okay. You need to be ready for that. You need to, you know, understand, bring this back to supervision, talk to me afterwards so we can um process that for you. And he said they were together, you know, they spoke for a couple hours. And I think it was a good conversation for both of them. Um, and it gave them a chance to sort of explore all the different options and help uh solidify what supports we could give and where we could um connect them, but also allow the client to feel heard. And um so I think that's what the peer support program really does is it gives people the chance to just, you know, talk to someone and be heard.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:I love that. I appreciate you sharing that story. Um, I think on a basic level, we all understand how important it is to feel seen and understood. And in in some cases, with um the hundreds and thousands of things going on in anybody's life on a given day, not everyone's gonna always have a solution or know what you're going through. Right. But to take the time and just have someone care enough to say, like, let me hear about it and let me let's let's address this and understand if you're here to talk about self-sufficiency or how to prepare for this job interview you have or something like that, that's not the only thing you're you have going on or that you're concerned about. And, you know, it's like going to work and knowing that there's some family stuff going on or maybe a health concern going on. It's not like when you're at work, you're like, okay, I'm at work. I don't think about those things anymore. And um, similar with like just even being a disabled person, you it's not fair to be like, oh, you have a disability. That is your identity. Right. There we all carry so many identities with us. And I think having a peer services project group that can, you know, connect you to somebody who can listen to you, who uh can can facilitate conversations that hopefully are generated in a way that's not going to be um, you know, exacerbating some of the stress or anxiety you're feeling, but maybe kind of uh, you know, uh open the valve a little bit in a positive way to just say even you know, more practical than events session, which are also very needed sometimes. But also just to talk to someone who is in a position where you know that they can help with some of the things you're experiencing and let them know like, here's where you're meeting me at today, here's where I'm at mentally, emotionally, and I'm here and I want to, you know, talk about the things we're gonna talk about, but there's all these different things going on. And um, I think a lot of us can relate to that. Um very few weeks go by where there's just, oh, only one thing happened to me this week, or I only felt this one emotion. Um, and I think it's it's really helpful to hear that not only are there people who are there to to talk to them, but that you and others in supervisory roles are helping to facilitate how much that can be of a weight on somebody to hear those things. I love to try to um fix things or give advice and be helpful. And sometimes if I know something's out of my hands, it really I can feel it. And I'm like, there's nothing I can do at the moment to make that better for you. And that's hard, I think, for a lot of people. And it's it's nice to hear that there's kind of a system in place to say, okay, let's take the step back, or how are you doing, having just heard something that's probably very hard to hear and you want to support this person. And from a clinician standpoint, here's how we would navigate this. And how's uh here here's how you can kind of practice self-preservation and things like that in that relationship so that you are not taking on so much that you can't be there to provide the role that you're there to provide.
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:Yeah, and I think, you know, I think that sort of the systems are complicit and guilty in creating those situations, aside from obviously the systems that are impacting people and again inability to find housing and and to find work is that if you look at the ways in which you access benefits, at least here in New York, let's say, you know, let's say you want to go to HRA and get public benefits and you have to go to WeCare to get if you have a disability, and then you know, you maybe you're working with another agency or something like that, how many times are these people asked to sit down and talk about the hardest things in their lives, how their bodies have changed and maybe feel that they've betrayed them or how their bodies are doing something and the world isn't like giving them space for it. And we we force them to do this over and over and over. It's the price of admission, it's the price of getting services and it's dehumanizing, and it is um to the point where people will sit down and just like they wouldn't even introduce themselves sometimes when they work with NHRA. They would just sit down and just start telling this is this is their story, which thank you for doing that, but you don't, you know, it's sad. You don't know me. You have to in instantly trust me because I'm in this position where I'm supposed to be the gatekeeper for these services. And so I just I want to make sure that the nice thing about the peer services program is, you know, we want to be strength-based. We want to talk to people and say, okay, yes, all these things are happening, but you're here, which means you've done all of these things to get in this room, really hard things. You know, we know that for people with disabilities who are unemployed or underemployed, very often within the family system, they're relied upon, you know, oh, you're not working, you can take your grandma to the doctor. Oh, you're not working, you can do this, wait for the electrician or something like that. And how many times have we as CRCs tried to get help somebody get an interview and then didn't schedule? And they're like, I can, I gotta take grandma to the doctor, you know, that all those, you know, require, you know, these these stressors that are on them. And we want them to walk into our rooms and come into our rooms and say and be in a place where they don't have to lay themselves bare. They don't have to be uh look at, you know, it's hopefully we're not deficit focused, we're not looking at the medical model, we're looking at them as a person in the complexity the same that we hope that if we walk into a therapeutic setting or a support setting that we're heard the same way.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:One of those things where you know how difficult the work can be, but there are still people such as yourself who who are doing it every day. And um it's it's important. And I I don't like to know that just having to be disabled um in a community or um in the United States means that it's um setting yourself for situations where you're almost prepared maybe to either be let down or left behind. And it's so so crucial that organizations like yourself, or like yours rather, um are there for the individual and and for their support groups and things like that. And um, Sydney's very active in the advocacy space for New York. We know in a lot of cases CRCs are doing this work because they're also drawn to wanting to be positive change agents and and be able to advocate for their clients and uh work within their communities to make the difference. Um, but are there elements where you see CRCs as being uh unique advocates for persons with disabilities in a way that could make a really tangible difference and be a good reason for someone who is a CRC to get more involved in that direct advocacy?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:I think it's aligned, it's it's it's not dissimilar for the conversation, you know, that that we'd had previously about being in an HR space. I think that there's a piece of recognition of disability in the community that you see everywhere. Um so you know, I I spoke in the beginning about, you know, working for the MS Society. And the reason I got connected with them is that my mother had an MS. She was diagnosed when I was in my late teens, um, had a long professional career as an immunologist, and um was unable to work past about four or five years of her diagnosis due to fatigue and and uh dexterity issues. She was a lab scientist, so she was actually an immunologist. So so that's how I found out about the MS Society and and the work that they did, because and I remember my mom going into the restroom of some hotel or something and coming out saying there was an accessible restroom and an accessible sink, but the paper towels were like five and a half feet off the ground, you know what I mean? And and you start noticing. And I think that something CRCs do is that you just and I when I talk to students, um, because the Hunter has people in the students interview CRCs and I talked to a few of them, and they all talked about sort of you know, the scales falling from there, you know, it's like holy crap, this is really not accessible, or this this world is not set up for people to to be universally accessible. And I think what CRCs bring is that vision into every part of their community. And you know, something that I do in um in my personal life, I'm I'm engaged with a lot of education advocacy here in New York and was on our local school school board and in some go and and do what I can to you know fight for access for for students is um realizing what those spaces are are for people with disabilities, you know, like even can you get to this meeting? You want to advocate for your child or you want to be part of the the school community, can you get in? You know, my my school, my son's school is not accessible, you know, for parents. There's no there's a there's a way to get in, but you'd have to ask. And you know, as a CRC, what do we want? We want universal accessibility. We don't want people to have to ask, my apartment building, I'm finding them right now because you can ask for a ramp, but you shouldn't have to ask. You know, people want to have access all the time. And you don't know why people need access or when they need it, it should be everywhere. That's why we have curb cutouts because they just work, you know, things like that. And so I think what CRCs do is that as you go through your schooling and as you do this thing and you do your internships, and then you start working, you start noticing that and hopefully use your opportunities in the world to say, you know, this is not accessible. This is things they can ask for accessibility doesn't mean you should have it there. We need to have closed captioning, we need to have sign language interpreters for meetings, we need to have these things um always there. So because other people don't have to say, oh, I guess I'm not welcome in this space. I feel good about the fact that this is a a profession that I have never met anybody who doesn't feel that way. But I think that if your CRC training, if your rehab counseling training doesn't radicalize you, then you're doing it wrong. And I think most people do get radicalized, and that's beautiful. You should be. You should be angry at all times. And that's our job.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Accessibility isn't just for people with disabilities, it's literally for everybody. Self-advocacy is such an important skill. We wrote about this on our blog uh a few weeks ago, and it's something everybody utilizes, whether you have a disability or not. You you have to advocate for yourself all the time. It's also something that if you're having to do it constantly all the time and ask people why isn't there a ramp there? Why uh am I not able to access this or that? It's it's kind of draining to have to constantly remind people I'd like to participate in society like the rest of you, um, which is why it's so important to have people who maybe aren't directly experiencing that advocate with you. And CRCs, no matter what work setting they end up in, like you said, kind of become radicalized to this idea of like, how on earth did we ever think that we should structure these systems and societies in a way that just doesn't even think about people with disabilities? And I again, I guess maybe eternal optimist in in me says it's not because people don't care. It's just an ignorance. And I think, you know, we could dive deeper into there about, you know, are people good? You know, that's not maybe that we uh that that would get into your bachelor's degree. Yeah, exactly.
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:Um ethics was my uh specialty.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:Part two of the podcast in 2026. Um so but I I do think it's one of those things where um if we constantly have to we shouldn't have to constantly rely on people with disabilities to explain to society how they need to be integrated and thought of.
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:And I think CRCs can Yeah, no marginalized person should have to defend their right to exist and be a full member of any community they want to be part of. That's not their job to teach other people like or to defend themselves for existing. You know, if I can elevate those voices, you know, my time's coming. I'm gonna, you know, God willing, I'll get older, you know, I'll I'll become more infirm and lose some mobility and it'll happen, you know, at this point. I can, you know, go up and down stairs and I'm very lucky and my vision is corrected enough that I can work and I have dexterity. But, you know, if I live long enough, it'll all change. So I think that, you know, it's important to also just be like, this is, yeah, this the world should be accessible just in general, as you said.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:In 2024, Sydney uh served over 40,000 consumers in New York, which is a staggering number and uh really speaks to just how important your organization is. Um, and to pull a quote that I had seen on your website, uh the services that your organization offers aim to enhance and maintain maintain the self-esteem and self-sufficiency of individuals with disabilities as well as support their day to day living. We know that for every individual with a disability, similar to someone without a disability, that lived experience is going to be unique and subjective. But are there any emerging challenges in the last few years that you and your organization have been running into with the work that you did? To be able to serve the people that you serve and things that are maybe starting to emerge as more common occurrences or things like that. And how does your training and education as a CRC equip you to continue to adapt and navigate those challenges as they arise?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:We're in a battle at the moment. Access to voting, access to food, for God's sakes. I mean, we had people calling up. How am I supposed to get food? It is a it's a tough time. It's a tough time for all but the billionaires right now. And I think that again, you know, our work is inherently political. So it does, you know, impact everything that we do. I think what, you know, we're thinking about um sort of some of the challenges also in general, like here in New York, housing is such a huge piece. Um in New York City, the cost of housing, and we're very hopeful. Um I'm very hopeful with our incoming mayor that there'll be changes as affordability has been um the core of his campaign and his um his goals. So uh that's exciting for us. Um, but I think that as we also look at what's going on with um things like AI and all the different ways at work is changing, the move away from remote work. Um, I think people had a moment where this was actually remote work is so much more accessible for people with disabilities because the combinations are built in. You know, you can get, you know, you can have meetings with um closed captioning on Zoom if you're remote, it's it's already done. Um and so as we move back away from that, that's really challenging for people with disabilities to want to change jobs or re-enter the workforce. Um so that's been a big piece that we're sort of seeing trends along. Um in addition, uh just general support, people who never thought that they would have to work, um, who are getting benefits for a disability and and needed them and didn't feel, you know, were okay not working now or having to enter the workforce. And they it's not a good time in a hour, you know. And so I think that we are looking at um, I think a CRC is really having time to sit with the our clients and think creatively about what it looks like for them to work, what is out there, the impact of um the world and the reality of what's going on. Something that Sydney's doing that I think is really interesting that they talked about, I think they're moving forward with it, is looking at the impact of um climate change on people with disabilities as well. We know that people um that climate change um disproportionately impacts people um based on socioeconomic status. And so, you know, the people with lower incomes have more impact from climate change weather. Um, I don't know where the listeners are, but here in New York City, uh every time now where we have major rain, uh basements flood and basement apartments flood and people die. And it's tragic. Um because those are the cheapest apartments. So I think um that's a big piece that you know we're looking at. And then lastly, is uh we are really spending a lot of time supporting people uh who have different immigration statuses and making sure that they feel safe if they're if they sometimes they want to work but are scared to come out the house. And that is very reasonable and very they need to make the best, safest choices for themselves. So really discussing that as well and helping them on make choices and connecting them and using the resources within Sydney to help them connect else to lawyers and advocates as well.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:So there are a lot of things that people are experiencing right now that are um challenging. I do think that similar to any work that a CRC would do with someone with a disability, there are always going to be people who are called to look out for one another and help one another. And I think community organizations such as uh your organization are so helpful and inspiring to look at as why it's so powerful to work together with those in your community to help one another, regardless of what someone's experiencing. Um, at the end of the day, we only have each other. And it's very crucial to know that in a time where maybe your uh direct living experience isn't under attack or under threat, that you would look to help someone who maybe is experiencing something that's difficult in the hopes that they would do the same for you. And I think central to many of the elements of the code of ethics for CRCs and the uh the the purpose that calls folks to to pursue this work in the first place, um, you want to to help others because how on earth is there another option? Well, I mean, what's what's the other choice, right? And um I think, you know, no matter how dark things can get sometimes, there's there's always some sort of light. And it's almost always someone looking out for someone else, at least in my perspective. And that's where I get a lot of my um my hope from is just knowing that people want to look out for one another. And uh no matter what, you know, storm rolls in, uh, we're gonna find a way to figure out how to be there for one another. And it's very important, particularly to the work of a CRC, to be able to do that from a point of not only caring and having the the heart to do it, but also the the understanding and the tangible um education to say, okay, here's how I know best to approach the situation or or um do what I can do to play a role in in helping those around me. And kind of on that note of, you know, feeling called to help one another, um, we like to ask all the CRCs we have on the show uh the same question to kind of wrap up. You know, you you started from the top saying that you knew that you wanted to help people with the work that you did. And a lot of CRCs like yourself kind of respond to this work because it feels like a calling to something that they were seeking out, even if they didn't know what rehabilitation counseling was. So I'm curious, what brings you joy in the work that you do?
Sara Schacter-Erenburg, CIDNY:Well, I think, you know, f for me, it's been uh a growth, and it's always I'm always growing and obviously changing and learning and things like that. And I think that when I came into um this field, and again, it's been I I finished grad school and ass and then six, so it's been almost long, 20 years. I think my mindset might have been like, I am here to help people and bestow my you know clinical skills and all my knowledge upon them and guide them through this stuff. And I think as I've grown and learned and know and realized, oh wow, I know nothing and you know all those things. I was like, what it brings me joy now is being in partnership with you know the people that I'm working with, the clients and the colleagues and stuff like it feels like you're part of a team where on I'm on team, you know, the client's name is John. I'm on team John, you know, and like, okay, we're gonna make this plan together and I'm gonna do what I can to like, you know, support and uplift what your goals are and do those things. But it's you're the driver, you're the one um making that. I'm not bestowing that. I'm lucky enough to be part of that team. And I think that that's the part that brings me most joy now is that it's not about, okay, you know, yes, okay, a job is a check mark and it's a goal and stuff like that. And sometimes it's nice to have jobs where you're like, okay, I finished this task and it's done. But it's not, it's a process. And if I can have a conversation with someone and they're all like, oh, I'll never get a job. And they'll be like, but you know, when you called me, you left me a really professional voicemail. And I can't tell you how many unprofessional voicemails I get in my life. Like, you've got this great skill. And they're like, oh, wait a minute. Like, those are the things that are sort of that are like, oh, this is a fun day. And then in the end, it should be fun, like it should be a positive experience. I get to talk to people, you know, like that's a nice, it's a nice gig. Like there are much worse gigs in the world, um, where I don't get to talk to interesting people, all sorts of stories in their life and and hear about, you know, where they're from and what they've done and learn about their jobs and all these, like everything. So those are the things that like bring me joy in the day when I'm like, oh, I'm tired.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC:A huge thank you to Sarah for an excellent conversation on this final episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling for 2025. If you have any comments or insights to share about today's topic, email us at contact us at crccertification.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching CRC Cert. We hit some major milestones this year on the Inside Rehabilitation Counseling podcast, and we could not be doing it without you. So continue to like, subscribe, and rate the show on your favorite podcast platforms, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to us today. And hey, if you have an idea for a future episode of the show next year, or you just want to come tell us about your work in rehabilitation counseling, get in touch. We'd love to have you on the program. Thanks for listening to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing Taylor Bauer. Happy holidays, have a wonderful new year, and take care.
