Mental Health Awareness Month with Meaghan Flaherty, CRC

For many professionals who find this field, an interest in mental health is what draws them toward a deeper understanding of the full disability spectrum. The education and training to become a CRC incorporates mental health, but goes much deeper into the ways in which mental health impacts things like life and work, as well as other disabilities one might be experiencing. 

Meaghan Flaherty is a Certified Rehabilitation Counselor with Path Forward Counseling and Creative Wellness, and she is currently completing an advanced certificate in mental health counseling at the University of Rochester. As you'll hear in our discussion, Megan's story is a lot like many CRCs. She had an idea of what she wanted to study, tried a few different paths, and was then recommended a master's rehabilitation counseling program that really felt like it stuck for her. 

Meaghan sees significant value and mindfulness for rehabilitation counseling services, as well as an intentional approach to engaging the whole person through leisure activities and passions outside of work to support employment goals.

Learn more about Path Forward Counseling here.

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Transcript

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 0:04

Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. Thanks for being with us. My name is Taylor Bauer, and I am the Director of Communications and Marketing at CRCC. In May, we observe Mental Health Awareness Month. So in this episode, we're going to tackle a topic that comes up a lot in our discussions about the impact of CRCs. For many professionals who find this field, an interest in mental health is what draws them toward a deeper understanding of the full disability spectrum. The education and training to become a CRC incorporates mental health, but goes much deeper in the ways in which mental health impacts things like life and work, as well as other disabilities one might be experiencing. Megan Flaherty is a certified rehabilitation counselor with path forward counseling and creative wellness, and she is currently completing an advanced certificate in mental health counseling at the University of Rochester. As you'll hear in our discussion, Megan's story is a lot like many CRCs. She had an idea of what she wanted to study, tried a few different paths, and then was recommended a master's rehabilitation counseling program that really felt like it stuck for her. Megan sees significant value and mindfulness for rehabilitation counseling services, as well as an intentional approach to engaging the whole person through leisure activities and passions outside of work to support employment goals. Hopefully, a few of her insights are things you can utilize in your life or maybe with clients. I know a few of her tips have been helping me since our recording. Hope you enjoy this conversation with Megan. Megan, thank you so much for joining me on the Inside Rehabilitation Counseling podcast. I'm really excited to get to talk to you about your work and some of your career journeys. So I figure a good place to start is at the beginning. Walk me through how you became a certified rehabilitation counselor and what drew you to this work.

Meaghan Flaherty 1:54

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm I'm honored to be here. I'm very excited to kind of talk a little bit about my journey and just what brought me here. So I guess if we're gonna start from like the beginning, I took a class, a psychology 101 class in high school. And I just loved it. I thought it was so interesting. Um, I also had some friends who um I was really close with that struggled with some mental health-related challenges. Um, so that was kind of the personal connection for me. And then I gained the language to kind of understand what some of what was going on for them. Um, and it was just fascinating. So that was my introduction to the world of psychology and um working with people. And then I took AP psych, and from there I was like, I think I want to do this for a living. Um so graduated high school, went to get my undergrad. Um, but I also have been a dancer since I was able to walk. So I was like two or three and I was put in a dance class. And so that was something that I also was really passionate about. And I had heard of dance movement therapy, and I was like, oh, that could be something I could maybe be good at and could maybe be a career for me. So in order to kind of fulfill that, I went for dance and psychology and got my bachelor's in both. Um, I did end up taking a conference um in like a dance movement therapy workshop kind of thing. And it wasn't my favorite. Uh, I think it's a really beautiful modality. Um, but I I don't know. I just it wasn't something I could see myself doing long term. Uh so I went back to the drawing board, I had these two degrees, and I started working. I went back home after school, um, got my first job, but that took months, right? And so that was always a fun process. But I started in direct care at a residential treatment facility based out of Rochester, New York. And I just I loved it. Like it was so amazing working with the teens and um supporting them in kind of like a residential setting. So they lived there during the week. They went to school on site. Um, and you know, we did like rec programming and meals and all that stuff. And um, it was wonderful. It was really hard work, but it was it was really fulfilling. And um, an opportunity came up for me to um move into an administrative role. And I thought, why not? I really am enjoying the work that I'm doing, but it is very draining um just being on the floor, and there were certain aspects of the job that were challenging. So I moved into administration and became a transition coordinator where I had a lot of exposure to um the social work side of things. So my office was in the same hallway as the social workers, and I was able to kind of see in real time um the treatment process and the different ways that the program uh worked together in order to promote success for these individuals. And my piece of that puzzle was discharge planning. So they were admitted to the program. From the minute they were admitted, I started talking to them about what goals they had for themselves when they went back into the community, when they went back home. Um and so I had a big role in like connecting with community resources and all of these pieces. But I always just really admired the therapists and the social workers. And it was the perfect storm of the pandemic and staff turnover when I realized, okay, I love this work. I'm feeling a little burnt out. I need to make a change. I'm gonna go back to school. So, and then it became this fun thing where I had explored dance movement therapy, didn't feel like it aligned with me and my overarching goals. So I did some research, found um a school psychology program, and kind of decided well, school's a really great environment where you I'll be able to interact with like a bunch of individuals and families. Like it's kind of a hub in that way. Um, and I really wanted to focus on like primary intervention or like prevention, you know, like getting people connected with the supports they need early on so that they don't, so that it improves outcomes, those kinds of things and increases level of support. So I started at UB and then quickly realized I thought school psychology would be like a school counselor role, right? Like I'd be, they'd come to my office, we'd chat, I'd connect with resources, we'd go on with our day. Um I quickly realized that this was mostly assessment. So a lot of like IQ testing and um like reading from a script. Um that was really hard for me because I like I like building relationships with people. I enjoy um, you know, kind of getting to know um just what people are interested in and what their goals are and the life that they see for themselves and all that exciting, interesting stuff. So I made another uh little change and met with my advisor. And I was like, I think mental health counseling is what I want to do. Like I love social workers, I really, really admire the profession. Um but mental health counseling just felt aligned with how I saw myself in my career. So I sat down with my advisor and she was like, I think that's great. We have a program, but my recommendation for you would be to consider like the big picture here. Mental health counseling is a state licensure and it's state dependent, right? So if you stay in New York State, you're probably sad, you're good. Uh, she asked if I had plans to move, and I was like, I mean, I don't really want to put myself in a box, like maybe, and now yes, we do plan on moving. So she was like, there's this degree, it's um a rehabilitation counseling degree, it's a certification, but it's national. So if you were to move to another state, instead of waiting for your licensure to be approved, you have a national certification. It's just gonna make that process easier for you. And I was like, I love the idea of opportunities, sign me up. Um and then I made the switch and I got my master's last year around this time and working on my advanced certificate in mental health counseling and applied for graduation in December and things are moving. And that was a long-winded way of saying that, like, I got here. This is this is how I got here.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 9:06

Yeah, no, and thank you for detailing all of that. I think your journey is going to resonate with a lot of people listening because a lot of folks who end up in this field, right, don't come from a journey of you're a freshman in high school and you're like, one day I'm gonna be a CRC, right? Um I assume most rooms, yeah, most rooms where we're talking to people in high school, college, even adults who potentially work in the disability services space don't know what a CRC is. So while that's something that we continue to work on and building awareness and things like that, I also think your journey is very indicative of like how this profession and the certification and what it offers you is kind of this incredible blend of all these different interests you had, right? You know, the psychology stuff resonated with you. You loved connecting people to services that could, you know, change their lives and be a huge help with their next chapter of what their life was looking like. And then I think central to all of this that you just went through is like you wanted to be up close and, you know, working with the people that you serve rather than getting botsed into certain ways of, you know, systems or different organizational tools for kind of standardizing the way that we approach serving an individual in like applied health or human services. And I think that's that that freedom, uh, not only for a national certification, but also the way in which you meet the client is so crucial to what makes this this profession possible and so impactful. And I think a lot of people listening probably either went on your same journey or a similar one, or maybe they're listening and they're, you know, not pursuing a master's degree yet, and they're thinking that sounds a lot like where I'm at right now. Um, and maybe that's where I want to be going. And I think it's it's great that you've found a way to also continue to pursue some of that mental health side of what um a CRC does and kind of center that in your future, as you mentioned, you know, graduation right around the corner for you, and you're working as a mental health counseling intern uh with path forward counseling and creative wellness while you complete that advanced certificate from uh University of Rochester later this year. And I think it's really exciting to hear from someone like you who went and pursued that CRC and that master's degree in rehabilitation counseling first, ahead of kind of diving deeper into the mental health side. Because a lot of people who work in mental health don't really always see the CRC as being a credential tied to mental health. We think of licensure, we think of traditional mental health counseling or clinical mental health counseling degrees as that's what you have to go pursue. But I'm I'm curious to hear from you based on the experience you have in your intern uh position right now, and then also kind of where you're looking to go in the future. What benefits do you see to having that CRC and that master's degree in rehabilitation counseling ahead of what's coming next for you with the advanced certificate in mental health counseling?

Meaghan Flaherty 11:57

That's such a good question. And I mean, something you said just kind of stuck with me just how there's that mental health piece, right? Like if you're a human being, you're navigating mental health. Like that's just kind of a universal piece. And I don't, you know, it's not just limited to mental health counseling or rehabilitation counseling or human services. Like any field that you go into, if a human is showing up, mental health is an aspect that needs to be considered. Um so I think that that is where the two fields um integrate so wonderfully. Um and to have some of that kind of foundation in my rehabilitation counseling master's program. Um, like we talked about mental health conditions and different diagnoses and things, and how um like various functional limitations are gonna show up with different diagnoses and the mental health considerations that you need to be on the lookout for when you are working with someone with this diagnosis versus this diagnosis. Um so we got that background, right? And and some some basic counseling skills. But to be able to go deeper into the therapeutic work with the mental health counseling um degree is it's just kind of like the icing on the cake. I can't think of a better way to put it, but it just it, I feel like it helps me show up in an even like stronger way for the people that I'm working with. Because not only do I have these practical skills, right? Like for vocation and like these pieces of of life, independent living, um, life skills, like those kinds of things. Um, not only do I have these practical skills that I can help support people with, but I also am learning the art of like holding space for whatever emotions are coming up. And I think that that's really important too. Um, so yeah, I think it integrates really beautifully.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 14:06

I I think for us, a big thing is a lot of people think of the CRC as being specific to either vocation or to working in like a rehabilitation agency for the state, right? Which is again very heavily focused on work. But some of that stuff that you laid out, like independent living, life skills, being able to meet that client where they are, um, those are things that a CRC can do. And I think for a lot of people who go and get their master's in mental health first, and then maybe because they can come in through category three, they can come and pursue the CRC with that master's in mental health. A lot of them feedback we've gotten has been there's a lot of catching up on the specific disability aspects or the medical psychosocial aspects of disability that maybe get touched on in a clinical mental health program. But the deeper dives, especially into things like um career considerations, job placement, assessment, those are things that are sort of, I wouldn't even say missing, but things that just don't get um as much time in a clinical mental health program. And I think for you, icing on the cake was a really great metaphor because you have a lot of people who have to kind of almost maybe go back and put some of the ingredients to the cake together if they start with mental health and then work over toward rehabilitation as either an area of focus or as a new, you know, profession. Where for you, knowing that mental health is something that you really want to dive deeper into and like you said, be able to hold space in ways that this, you know, the pursuit of the certificate is equipping you with additional skills on top of the ones that you earned during your master's degree in rehab, it's kind of like to me a really strategic way to go through the process of getting to that place where you can meet clients where they are and serve them by starting with kind of all of the aspects of mental health that come into play. It's not just, you know, the emotional aspect of it, but like how does your mental health affect your ability to work or have a job? How does your mental health um affect your ability to live independently? What sort of services are even available to you if you're experiencing something that's um, you know, presenting a hurdle for your mental health and mental wellness? And I think, like you said, the blend of all of that together, in my opinion, is just gonna make you a stronger counselor and professional moving forward. And it'll be really exciting to get to kind of follow and see, you know, what comes next for you because I think it's going to be clear to your clients when you um continue to work with them in the future that like that blend of skills is something that you're bringing that not every other professional that they've worked with is bringing to the table. You know, it's a big focus for you in conversations that you you and I had before this recording to kind of center awareness and mindfulness in your work. Um what does that look like for a client? So, like what elements of mindfulness align with someone seeking mental health or rehabilitation services, in your opinion?

Meaghan Flaherty 17:02

For me, mindfulness is is like the opposite of autopilot, right? Like I think we live in a culture that's very fast moving, um, at least in at least in New York. Um, I've definitely visited other places and it's been a little bit of a more controlled pace. Um, but maybe that's just because I'm on vacation. Um so with the the culture that we live in, where you know, a lot of emphasis is put on our productivity and um with that focus so much on like the output of work that you're doing and like how engaged you are at your job or like how much you're able to accomplish and and this almost um celebration of just productivity. Um, it's so easy to get disconnected from yourself and then also disconnected from those around you. And sometimes I feel like um for myself, I I go into autopilot, right? Like I'm just going through the motions and I'm just trying to get from point A to point B and get there safely, but I don't really know what's going on in between. Um and so mindfulness has really helped to ground me. And um, I like incorporating it in the work that I do with clients because the um the big pillars of mindfulness are um like intention, attention, and attitude. And so I really think that's a great way to kind of simplify this practice of being present, um, being present with yourself, being present with the people around you. Um and it just it it allows for more meaningful connection. If I see someone starting to maybe get escalated or start to get upset, um, or even like the opposite of upset, like if I see someone happy and excited, I I ask, like, what's coming up for you right now? Where are you feeling that in your body? Um, and like trying to encourage that awareness of just what the present moment is looking like, um to hopefully help with more intentionality and more um like goal-directed living. So I think that's kind of where I try to incorporate all of that, not only in the work that I do, but also in my life.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 19:21

That's great. Yeah, and I think we can all learn something from kind of making that effort to try to include those practices in our life more, um, particularly for clients that CRCs are working with. Whether you're going through maybe uh the the process of receiving services through like a system, there can be, you know, paperwork involved, or a lot of like boiling someone down to a diagnosis, what they need, and kind of like, let's get you in a job where you can be productive, like you said. I think we talk a lot on this show about work, work is therapeutic for people, right? You have social integration, those around you rely on you, you feel a part of something bigger than yourself. Those things are so much deeper than just what are you doing for the business you're working for, right? And I I I love that, you know, when CRCs are working with a client as opposed to maybe other professionals, it's not about let's just get you a job close to your house, say that we we we dot you in somewhere and move on. It really comes down to like, what are you gonna feel fulfilled doing? And I think even when you're in a job where you feel fulfilled, you're still gonna have days where, like you said, you're gonna be on autopilot. You're not gonna be present with the work you're doing. And maybe things outside of that job are playing a role in your inability to stay in the moment at that job. And I think that can feel really overwhelming, particularly when we know people with disabilities in the workplace feel this added pressure to overperform and ensure that they're not being looked at as their deficits, right? So I think I mean, intentionality and mindfulness are something we could all benefit from, but incorporating that in the work you're doing with clients, I think is essential to helping to develop some of those like self-assuredness feelings that we could all use more of. Um, and just ensuring that there's always going to be someone they can they can rely on when it comes to some of these feelings that they're feeling. And, you know, it's great to have professionals in our lives. We also have to be able to look toward ourselves for those things. And I think mindfulness plays a huge part in developing that for someone.

Meaghan Flaherty 21:24

Absolutely. And that attitude piece, right? Like, I think about this in my own journey. Um if I wasn't showing up and open-minded, right? Like that's a big piece of mindfulness too, is like curiosity and open-mindedness and like really trying to gather as much information as you can. Um, that attitude piece is is so important. And I I think that they they all work together, right? Like being intentional, all that good stuff.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 21:53

Yeah. And I feel like optimism sometimes gets kind of like mismarketed as you're going to feel positive and happy all the time. Time, right? Um, it's I I something I've even worked on with myself is being able to accept that some days just aren't going to go your way or some moments or some things. And I think, yeah, being able to work on those skills of being able to say, like, you know, if that's the worst thing that happens today or the worst thing that happens this week, that does not mean that this is a bad day or a bad week. And finding ways to continue to move forward through those times of like, you know, feeling tested or feeling like um you know, depending on how severe the the the bad thing is going on in your life is, um, feel feeling like you're gonna get through the storm even if right now you can't see like where it ends, right? So I think those are great things to center and um a huge reason why, you know, because so much of that affects not only a person, but also their work, their personal life. I think that's a that's a perfect thing for CRCs to be incorporating into their services.

Meaghan Flaherty 22:55

Yeah.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 22:55

Um and we we we do know, you know, when we talk about some of these like mental health settings or mental health services, a lot of people who are early in their career journey or maybe completing undergraduate work who want to go into a profession where they can help people, a lot of them assume mental health is the place for me. And I think that that's a perfectly reasonable, you know, path to take, right? I think we we know how important the conversation is around mental health. And, you know, in particular for CRCC, many of the CRCs that uh hold the certification that we administer do work in mental health settings and practices because their training incorporates mental health and as part of the disability spectrum, they have those counseling skills to not only be able to work on those mental health elements and you know connect with a client, but also, like you had mentioned earlier, find tangible uh connections or solutions to some of the things that they're needing to figure out in their life. Um, what would you say to students ready to jump into a master's program about considering rehabilitation counseling if it isn't on their radar? So, similar to you talking to that counselor, you know, what would you maybe say to someone who's in that position you were in about why it might be worthwhile to pursue rehabilitation counseling?

Meaghan Flaherty 24:11

Yeah, absolutely. I think what really sold me was the again, the uh increased opportunity. So the way that the system is set up right now, um, mental health counseling is is a licensure, right, in order to practice. And um that's that's state dependent. So you can get licenses in other states, um, but you know, as I'm getting into the whole CEU and and maintaining different uh just different um requirements for things, um efficiency and uh simplicity seems to be the way to go. So yeah, what really sold me was the ability to make a move or have more options like for my future and not be like defined by just a single area in this country. Um so like I don't have to just live in New York. Like I, if I wanted to, which we're we're hoping to move to to Colorado in a couple of years, that's the plan right now. Um, and I can go and apply for my license in Colorado, like that's no problem. But that's gonna take time. And um so the thought of being able to say, like, I have national certification that um while I'm waiting for my license to be active, I'm still I'm still qualified to practice is just gave me reassurance. So that was something that was really appealing to me when I was making the decision. But something that I didn't know about the degree that I I try to, and I can only speak for my own experience ever, right? Like I don't know what the mental health counseling master's program looks like. Like I'm only aware of the rehabilitation counseling master's program and then the advanced certificate that got tagged on. Um but I really got to kind of expand my perspective and really learn how the system is set up and how to work with the system in order to optimize outcomes for individuals. And like part of that means like learning the limitations of the system and then figuring out how to work with those limitations and barriers and just learning simple things like how if you walk into a building and there's the only way into that building is stairs, that limits a percentage of the people that can enter that building. And so just that's that's kind of how my perspective shifted in my rehabilitation counseling was um I really got to focus on inclusivity and helping people feel like they belong, right? Because if you put steps in front of a building where someone isn't able to use stairs to get in, the the underlying message there is you don't belong in this building. And that's something that um I mean, I'm I'm generalizing like a lot, but I think what stuck with me there is again, that intentionality piece with mindfulness, right? Like as we are building buildings, as we are building programs, as we are putting together these different pieces of our society, are we considering everyone? Are we thinking about all levels of functioning when we are like building the world around us? And that to me was the most valuable piece of my rehabilitation counseling degree. Um, and I have carried it with me into mental health counseling because I think that it really helps me connect with the individualized experience of the people that I work with. Um, and then it also helps expand my um perspective to be able to just empathetically connect with um clients and and different groups.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 28:10

So yeah. Yeah. It's so powerful to like you're not the first person on the show to kind of almost explain getting this degree and going into this work as like another way to view the world being opened to you. Um, particularly for myself when I have conversations with CRCs, I know that like physical limitations for myself are not something that I deal with every day. And when you talk to folks who work with clients who have a number of visible or invisible disabilities, where something as what you would imagine as commonplace as going to the store or being able to get into a building to go fill out paperwork for something or go to a job, those are just not a given for so many people. And I think pursuing this education and then going into this work is such a valuable perspective to provide yourself as you go out to work with these clients. Um, in particular, because CRCs come at things from a strengths-based approach. You're not going to ever work with a client or meet one for the first time and immediately go, all right, so let's talk about what you can't do, right? That's just not how this field is built. And nor should it be the way that we approach trying to give people the equity in society that they deserve. And as you mentioned, the limitations of systems sometimes um inherently put people in that position where they have to be made to feel like they are boiled down to the things that they can't do, or the things that maybe have been told to them are out of reach or not going to be possible. And I kind of view CRCs as almost like the anecdote to that, where it's like, no, no, no, like we're here to show you why those things are possible. And, you know, systems be damned, we're gonna get you where you want to be, right?

Meaghan Flaherty 29:54

So um I really do see it as a trickle-down approach, right? Like when I think of just the stigma that exists, right? Like if you really look at the big picture and you think of maybe someone who has a learning disability that's in school and isn't getting the support that they need and internalizing this idea that like I'm not smart enough, and they go through school and they just get by, maybe they don't finish. And now opportunities are already limited for this person versus an alternate reality where instead of this negative connotation to, oh, you're struggling with learning, how can we support you? How can we make this knowledge and this curriculum accessible to you so that you can achieve whatever you set your mind to and that we can have that equity that you were talking about, right? Like so I just I think there's a lot of misconceptions um when it comes to like the disability experience. Um and just really putting it all into perspective and realizing how different pieces of the system or the infrastructure like have an impact on different lived experiences, I think is so important.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 31:14

Absolutely. And and like, you know, tying it back to mental health, those experiences of being put in a position where you're told like you just can't do something, that affects your mental health. So if you are experiencing a disability unrelated to something like anxiety or depression, those things can so commonly come up as something now that you have to deal with because anytime you go to seek help for something that you're you're needing, you feel that feeling of getting, again, diminished down to your deficits. And I think that that's such an insanely horrible way for people to be taught like this is how you'll move through society. You will have to put yourself in the smallest spots possible and essentially beg for us to give you the things that a bunch of other people don't have to beg for or go through so many hoops to receive. So it's it's it's a wonderful um process to start with that rehabilitation counseling masters. And then if if if you know that mental health, similar to doing any sort of area of work uh related to rehabilitation counseling, if you know that mental health is kind of the area specifically you want to go into, then dive deeper into it. But having that disability foundation, I think is crucial. So I appreciate you kind of sharing your thoughts on that. This episode's obviously going up in May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. Um, and I'm curious, you know, with so many conversations taking place publicly and just kind of like even in the media about mental health, where can we be more intentional when we talk about the intersectionality of disability and mental health? And, you know, from your perspective as a CRC, where do we need to continue to advocate uh for more awareness or more consideration for where disability and mental health kind of collide?

Meaghan Flaherty 32:56

It goes back to what we were talking about before, that focus on accessibility and inclusivity, right? Like when we're going to build these programs, when we're going to construct these buildings, not just thinking about one section of the population, whether it be a physical disability or a mental disability, like I think about how much I've learned about environmental settings and how like really bright lights can be overwhelming. Or um, like in a school setting, um, I hear from a lot of teens that I work with that the rooms that they are asked to take tests in have so many distractions. And for maybe um neurotypical individuals, it's not as obvious. But um for a neurodivergent brain, the lights are so bright and you're trying to function um and regulate, and it's hard to concentrate on the on the materials in front of you. Um so just things like that, like really promoting belonging and not sending messages that um you aren't welcome here. And that all starts with how things are established and set up. Um, and then also just that recognition that mental health is a part of the human experience. Um, like mental health is health. I know that's kind of a cliche saying, but um it has the word health worked into it. And there's so many different domains of wellness that I like to go through with clients um that kind of encompass not only well-being, but just um your mental health and wellness and that whole uh spectrum. So each lived experience comes with different values and opinions and beliefs and how to promote curiosity and open-mindedness and not judging one another, um, to reduce stigma and really just instead of people feeling that they can't share their stories, um being curious about it and just, you know, like the best example I have is a difficult coworker. I get caught up in the you know, difficult coworker frustration all of the time. Um but what's really helped me is like why are they um presenting this way, right? Like and also what's showing up for me. Um and not what's the word that I'm looking at? Just not um giving people the benefit of the doubt, I think, is the best policy. Um we're all doing our best and we're all showing up and and we're all working with the skill set that we have based on the experiences and the um environments that we've had and been exposed to. And um just really trying to deepen that understanding.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 35:57

Definitely. Yeah, I think the more that we can seek to understand each other, hopefully the more that we even understand ourselves. And I always view it as like very few people that I've encountered seemingly just like have a malice to them, that they just want people around them to be miserable. They're probably going through something also. And um, you know, some people on depending on the day, you can really look at it and be like, you'd only act this way if you have no consideration for me or my feelings. And I think it's helpful to kind of think more about like, well, what put them into that place? What things can I be expressing that I might need more out of that working relationship or just relationship in general, where maybe we can come to an understanding with one another about maybe why we're having such a hard time meeting each other where we need to meet. So it's it's beneficial to always, like you said, kind of give people the benefit of the doubt and know that like you're not the only one having a day, right? It's everybody around you. And um, but even you know, exposing yourself to perspectives of people who can point out things of like, yeah, this this room where I'm testing in is so distracting. And just because you haven't lived that does not mean, you know, the answer to their complaint is like, well, I've never had a problem with taking a test before. It's like, oh, well, tell me more about yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no worries. Uh but yeah, like tell me about what's what's creating these barriers for you to feel like you can perform at your best, and let's figure out how to reduce those barriers as best as possible. I'm curious, with with dance being such a big part of your life, as you told us, like uh literally, it sounds like from the time you could walk, it was kind of in your life, which is incredible. Um, where do you see creative and visual and even like performance arts as elements to consider in counseling services or working with a client? Can you explain maybe a little bit about how outlets like dance or music or even design um can provide support to an individual kind of looking to navigate a disability?

Meaghan Flaherty 37:52

Absolutely. Um, I think when it comes to creative expression, just more outlets, right? Like more emotional and um reflective and ways to again connect with yourself. It's a pathway for being able to process through various things that are going on. I mean, dare I say a coping skill or a strategy. Um it's it's an opportunity to be able to emotionally regulate, um, reflect and really um incorporate those mindfulness skills that I was talking about before, right? That intentionality, like if we're if we're constantly moving through life in that autopilot or or just like trying to get to the next thing, we don't take the time to to pause and um you know engage with our creative side because that's really where we are able to come up with like new ideas um and really find different ways to express ourselves. Um, because it's not just all about serious things, like it's okay to take the time to just color or like bracelet making. Um I've really gotten into junk journaling recently. Like I am a collector of things. Um and uh it's a lot of those things have different emotional um pieces to it, right? Like receipts from a first date or um the the ticket to a show that I went to with my mom. Um just different things that carry memories. And I'm like, yes, this is a scrap piece of paper, but it also reminds me of a time in my life when I was doing this thing with someone that I care about. Um so I've started like gluing those pieces to a journal. Um, and it just it's messy. Um, but it also feels like really cleansing in a way for um for me because it's it's a way for me to take all of this junk that I've collected over the years and and create something out of it and like put it into like one spot. So it's not just all like jumbled everywhere and I have to go through it. Like, no, I can flip through a journal. And it has um it has more of myself in it. Um, but there's so many other ways to do that. Um, how Dance does that for me is it it allows me to really connect with how my physical body is doing. Um and I also like tying that to my emotional state. So if I'm feeling really tense, like I notice my movement is restricted. Um, and instead of being frustrated by that, um really being curious about it and um almost working with it in a way and like trying to either loosen up or again work with the resistance, um, which I think is a lesson for so many aspects of life, whether it be counseling or um conflict or whatever else it is. Um so I think long story short, I think that creative outlets are a way for us to find meaning and to really connect and um express the things that are important to us.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 41:29

Yeah, and I think sometimes it's easy to look at those things as like even like when you're in school, right? They're called like extracurriculars, right? They're kind of this comes after you go to math class and you go to, you know, learn about science and things like that. So I think we really we really internalize this idea that like if there's time for it, great. Go take a dance class or draw or journal. And when you get to be an adult, it feels less and less like um those are things you should be spending your time on. Cause I think we get very much into like a utility mindset of like, well, what is this doing for me? And sometimes that intangible benefit of getting to clear your mind and do something that doesn't create money or contribute something to some business or something like that can feel like, oh, I could probably be using my time a little bit better. But I think it's incredibly powerful for a C or C to tell a client, like, just like you want to maybe go pursue this profession that you're working toward and get back to work after an injury or find a community group where you can get involved and have a little bit more integration for your social life, you also need to be taking time to do things that bring you joy. And there's such like a powerful thing to joy that feels like not only are you like feeding your own soul or you know, your essence, whatever you want to call it, but like it's also almost like an act of resistance to be like, I am not just someone who's meant to create something of value for someone else. Value to myself is valuable, right? And hearing that from a CRC, especially one like you, who has that understanding of how important dance has been throughout your life, could be an outlet for someone who maybe they've never gotten that confirmation to say, yeah, I should spend time on drawing, or I should be uh even like watching movies and then talking with your friends about them. That's such an important way to socialize and talk about art and engage with art. And those are things that are are worth your time and you know, fitting into your schedule. So it's to me, it's something that, you know, we could all be doing a better job of is really making sure that we we make times for the we make time for the things that kind of like give us our like meaning or give us that feeling of like, oh, I love being a part of this, you know.

Meaghan Flaherty 43:36

I know, and I love making adults color. This is such a weird thing, but uh, I think you know, resistance must be the word of the day. But um there's almost this like, well, that's child's activity. I remember I was tabling an event and um I had like a mindful coloring activity that I was trying to, you know, get the community to engage in. And the first 30 minutes I wasn't getting any take. I got a couple children, which was great. And I was like, convince your parents, convince your older friends. But then I had some, you know, adults finally sit down and they were like, man, I haven't done this since I was a kid. Like this feels really good. And it's like, when did we stop being like engaging in creative things? Like, when did we stop coloring? When did we stop dancing? When did we stop doing the things like you were saying? Um, it's so important to incorporate that like recreation piece and find that joy. Um because that's what just helps make things so much more meaningful.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 44:40

Yeah, it fills the cup too. I mean, like it you're only going to be as able to show up for yourself and the people around you as you are willing to invest that kind of uh time into making sure that you feel fulfilled in all the different ways that that can be possible. Totally. Um so as we continue here at CRCC and in the work that I do with like marketing and communications to remind people that you know, CRCs specialize in all types of disability, which includes mental health. Um, I'm curious, just kind of as we wrap up here, what types or parts of your training as a CRC do you see being vital to how we approach mental health services, just even as like a country or society in 2026? What do we need to be spending more time in that you, you know, feel equipped to do as a CRC just in general?

Meaghan Flaherty 45:31

Right. This is the big picture question. Um, I mean, I think collaborative care is so important, um, and like holistic care that really like encourages um consultation with one another and um putting the pieces of the puzzle together so you're not just looking at one specialty or one area. Um, so it's like my job is not the most important job, right? Like I want to be working with your primary care physician, I want to be working with your um medication management provider, like I want to be working with other um professionals that are involved because that's gonna promote the big picture. And that way things aren't getting missed. Um, especially with a focus in somatics, right? Like I really think that there's so many um aches and pains and things that are manifestations of stress and the stress response and that frustration that comes from um feeling that chronic tension and that puts you at a at a risk or a vulnerability for injuries um or whatever else. Like if there is more interdisciplinary collaboration, um I just think that and celebration of individuality as well, right? Like um, there's not just you know, the typical brain is not the only important brain, and celebrating like the creativity and the expressiveness um and the spontaneity of like a an atypical um neurodiverse brain. Um and just really working that into like primary intervention strategies, right? So, like not only are you going to meet with your primary care physician to make sure your physical health is being taken care of, like more conversations in the beginning of even if there's not a quote unquote problem, right? Like, do you have someone to talk to? And I I've noticed that actually in the last how many years um going to my primary care physician, I do think there's more um like screenings and things that are happening, which is great progress. Um, but it also shouldn't all fall on one provider. So just really promoting that collaboration and and that holistic model, um I think would be my my thought.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 48:10

We talk about CRCs being connectors and how, you know, sometimes one of the things that I hear from people who don't know about certified rehabilitation counselors is I'll explain kind of what you all do as best as I can in a short amount of time. There is a lot to fit in in like a 90-second like elevator speech. Right. Um, but a lot of times they'll we've had some people be like, oh, so you're like a career coach. And I'm like, a career coach wouldn't know how to help connect what you're going through with your medical professionals and your diagnosis, as well as where you live and the community you live in and what services are available to you, and be able to connect all of that back to not only like finding maybe a job or a volunteer opportunity or something to keep you feeling like you're integrated in your world, but also be able to say, let's not just stop at what's possible, let's stop, but let's continue on to what do you want to be doing with your life? What what what appeals to you? A career coach is not going to be able to navigate that. And similarly, specific medical professionals or other professionals in Allied Health or Human Services have their role to play, right? And I think one of the things that CRCs can do exceptionally well that a lot of other folks maybe um don't have the bandwidth to handle is how wide-ranged your knowledge is to be able to navigate all of those different systems and considerations. And, you know, a CRC is not providing a diagnosis, right? That's where that person or where that professional's, you know, role is coming into play with a client. But you're able to take that diagnosis and talk to them about the limitations they're experiencing and go, okay, well, look, here are accommodations that might help you in the workplace. Here are services you should be seeking out in your community. That's such a it really feels transformative to an individual's ability to know what I am even capable of doing? You know, lived experience is huge, but for a lot of people with disabilities, they almost internalize this idea that there are just certain things that are not going to be possible for me. And I view CRCs as very much like the person in their grand network of uh professionals that they're working with to be the one to go, let's not start from a place of like, well, there's only a few things that are on the table. Let's look at like, if there were no hurdles or limits on you, what would you want to be doing? And let's figure out how to get you there or to a place where you feel like you're a part of that, you know, that goal you have. And it's it's so vital to me that more folks in hospital settings and even like rehabilitation centers know that CRCs are professionals that they can be, you know, working with or hiring on staff because beyond all of those different things that, you know, both of us have just talked through, there's also that counselor aspect of being able to talk to someone about how does navigating all this make you feel? What are you going through as you try to make sense of all these different people in these places that are asking things of you just so you can have a job that you can go to, or so that you can support yourself financially, or feel like, you know, you don't have to hesitate to want to go do something in your community because you're like, I don't even know if it's going to be accessible. Those sorts of skills and that ability to connect a client to all of the things around them, I kind of view as like the highly underrated aspect of what a CRC brings. And it's something that I feel like no matter what client you work with or other CRCs work with, they're going to see firsthand like how uh versatile your knowledge and skill set is just based on your ability to work within all of those spaces and systems.

Meaghan Flaherty 51:40

Yeah. And you mentioned accommodations too. Like we didn't even, that's another piece like we didn't really get to dive into. And I think that's so important. And I hear from clients a lot, and it and it really makes me upset. Um so this is something, you know, like a hope that I have for the way that things are right now is um like normalizing, asking for support. Um like in the job application process, I think is where I'm seeing it the most, where it, you know, that that box where it's like, do you need to request any accommodations or modifications to the job? And I see a lot of um like hesitation or even um like anxiety about checking that box because of the stigma um that exists. And um like like you were saying, how it gets internalized, like I can't do these things because I need to ask for additional support. Um, and just really reminding people that just because you might need an accommodation, I I almost feel like we need to get rid of that box completely. This is where I'm like, you know, wishful thinking, get rid of that box completely. And part of the hiring process is sitting down and just being like, what do you need to do this job? How can we help you be successful? Take all of the um like negative, negatively connotated language out of it and just individual to individual, like, how can we support you? Um so yeah, I think that's just that's what I'm seeing come up a lot, is um people afraid to ask for accommodations and it and it makes me really sad. And um I just hope that we can continue to advocate for like there's nothing wrong with wanting to have the support that you need in order to perform your job well, the job that you're more than qualified for, and that any team would be lucky to have your particular skill set. Um so yeah.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 53:40

Definitely. Yeah, and like I I see on LinkedIn specifically all these posts that companies will make about, you know, being a great place to work and things like that. And I'm like, how how much of that is your meeting the minimum legal requirements of what you have to offer? And how much is actually having someone on staff who can sit down just as you laid out and say, like, what do you need from us to be able to succeed? And um, we do know some companies, especially some larger companies, have hired CRCs, which is incredible. There are way more that we know haven't. And that's where I kind of wish um we had like a burner CRCC account where I could hop on the comments of those places and be like, if you guys were serious about talent retention, you'd hire these people. Whether or not that's appropriate for the work we do here, maybe not. But I think there is a place for us to continue to advocate to businesses and employers like, look, you want to hold on to top-tier talent. First of all, you're probably overlooking people with disabilities because of stigma and all those things. But also keep them on board by, you know, you don't have to, you know, set up this entirely new workspace in many cases for people who need an accommodation. You just have to meet them and say, what is it you're needing from us? Is it, as you laid out earlier, is it something like maybe noise canceling headphones for a busy workspace? Is it maybe, you know, uh an alternative lighting for a space that might be too bright for someone? Or is it something literally as simple as like, hey, every couple hours I need to get up and move for 10 minutes because I, you know, I'm battling some stiffness with an injury I experience or something like that. Those things are so small in the grand scheme of trying to find people to help you run your business. Um, and it's just a huge, hugely overlooked aspect of how these companies can continue to do more. In your journey so far, I kind of want to end our conversation with a question we ask everybody who comes on the show. Um, and it kind of ties back to our conversation about joy a little bit earlier, but specifically with the work you do as a CRC and kind of what's ahead for you, what brings you joy in the work you do professionally and when you're working with clients?

Meaghan Flaherty 55:43

Yeah, it's such a great question. And um yeah, before we close, thank you so much again. I'm so grateful to have had this opportunity and to get to connect to you. And that kind of ties into what brings me joy is making connections, right? And whether that's helping someone connect more with themselves or connect more with a partner or their family or their friends, um, being able to find meaning um and just helping to, I'm tired of saying destigmatize, but like to helping to um just celebrate the human experience, like whatever, whatever that looks like, right? And taking the the good or the bad out of it, um and just promoting being there for one another, including one another. And I think that is what brings me joy is is being able to work in a space where that's our main focus. Um, yeah, I feel I feel honored and very, very, very grateful.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 56:52

A huge thank you to Megan for her time today and her thoughtfulness. If you have a comment or question about today's conversation or maybe an idea for a future episode, reach out to us at contact us at crccertification.com. You can find us on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn, and our website is crccertification.com. Wherever you're listening to us today, we have a homework assignment for you. We would love a five star rating on the show. It helps wonderful people like yourself find the episodes like the one you just listened to. And as always, thank you for spending some of your day with me exploring the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. I'm Taylor Bauer with CRCC. Take care.