Engaging in Advocacy with Abigail Akande, PhD, CRC

We are in the process of a broad awareness campaign that highlights CRCs in their own words. We've seen videos and other testimonials as part of this campaign, driving CRCC's reach and engagement on social media and on our website to all-time highs. And we cannot do this without CRCs who take the time to tell us about their work and why it matters. 

Dr. Abigail Akande is a CRC and tenured associate professor of rehabilitation and human services at Penn State Abington. She submitted testimony on our behalf, which led to a conversation about several pressing matters in the disability and rehabilitation counseling fields. From better defining the role of rehabilitation services to examining how we advocate not only locally but also internationally, Dr. Akande approaches rehabilitation counseling in a way that is both educational and impactful.

Visit Dr. Akande's website here.

Help grow awareness for CRCs by clicking here to learn about CRCC's awareness efforts!

Advocacy Links mentioned by Dr. Akande:

https://evidence2impact.psu.edu/ 

www.Results.org   

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Transcript

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 0:04

Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing, Taylor Bauer. We're glad you're joining us for another conversation on the work and impact of certified rehabilitation counselors. We are in the process of a broad awareness campaign that highlights CRCs in their own words. We've seen videos and other testimonies as part of this campaign, push CRCC's reach and engagement on social media and our website to all-time highs. And we cannot do this without CRCs who take the time to tell us about their work and why it matters. Dr. Abigail Akande is a CRC and tenured associate professor of rehabilitation and human services at Penn State Abington. She submitted testimony for us, which led to a conversation about several pressing matters in the disability and rehabilitation counseling spaces. From better defining the role of rehabilitation services to examining how we advocate not only locally but also internationally, Dr. Akande approaches rehabilitation counseling in a way that is both educational and impactful, as you'll hear during our conversation on today's episode. Let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Dr. Abigail Akande. Dr. Akande, thank you so much for joining me here on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm really fortunate that you submitting a video to our, you know, CRC Awareness Project ended up turning into this podcast episode. So I'm excited to kind of dive a little deeper into your career and learn more from you. And I think a great place to start is to hear a little bit about the journey that led you to become a certified rehabilitation counselor. Where did that all start and what drew you to this line of work?

Dr. Abigail Akande 1:44

Well, Taylor, thank you so much for the invitation, first of all. And that's a question actually I've gotten a lot throughout the years. And I'm afraid my answer isn't that great or exciting or fabulous or whatever. But um I had always had an interest in working with people with disabilities in some capacity. Um and what that looked like or what that was going to be definitely evolved throughout the years, through high school, through college. And then I was sitting at my computer, my senior year of college, like, I want to go to grad school right after I graduate. I've got to find something, and literally stumbled on rehabilitation counseling while searching online, you know, typing in the right keywords to kind of come across something that you know met my interest. And I ended up finding the Master's of Rehabilitation Counseling program at Boston University. And because I was at Tufts University at the time, I, you know, got on the team, made my way down there and talked to some people and found out about the RSA grant and the rest is history. But yeah, it was, you know, rehab counseling was definitely not a field that I had heard of before, which is quite common. And so I was happy to find it.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 2:55

We're happy you found it too. And uh, you know, you said it, you said it's not an exciting story, but it is definitely a common one. And we'll hopefully dive in uh a little later in this conversation to, you know, your perspective on how we can make sure more more students know about this line of work. Maybe, you know, even when they start undergrad, they know that that master's program is the goal. And I think that speaks a little bit to, you know, the importance of undergraduate programs and um just getting out there and building awareness with students. And, you know, you're obviously on the front lines with students now as a tenured associate professor of rehabilitation and human services at Penn State Abington. Um, there's a really interesting history to the program uh within Penn State. And if listeners aren't aware, I was wondering if you could maybe kind of share a bit about how that bachelor's program at Penn State came to be and why it's so influential, uh, not only to the rehabilitation counseling field, but disability studies in general.

Dr. Abigail Akande 3:50

Yeah, I think it's a cool story. And I actually just learned about it myself a few years ago doing my own research. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is about Penn State. And so it's Dr. uh James Hilbert in the 1960s, who, in collaboration with uh the PA Bureau of Rehab and the State Office for the Blind at the time, realized that there was this gap in the workforce, at least in Pennsylvania, um, for you know, people needing uh disability-related services, rehab services, and not necessarily having the professionals to work with them. And um, back then they leaned very heavily on people with education degrees, uh, sociology degrees, psych degrees, which as we know is not the same. Um, and there were some you know knowledge domains that were missing. And so they actually worked together uh to build the curriculum for this Bachelor of Rehabilitation at Penn State. And the article that I read um, you know, it was called an experiment because as it was written, they weren't really sure what was going to come of it or if it was gonna be successful or helpful. And obviously it has turned out to be so. Um, I always tell my students about you know the history of VRs, it's the only field of counseling developed by the federal government. You know, we have our own little cool origin story as a field. Um, but you know, the need for VOC rehab services is also very specific. You know, there's so many other allied health needs. Um, when we're working with people with disabilities, people on the clinical team vary so greatly. And these bachelor's level um trained clinicians can actually fill those gaps. And um they describe the degree as being a terminal degree, but also a precursor to a graduate level degree to specialize. So, and it's still that way. You know, with my students, some of them um have no plans to go to grad school, some of them might in a few years, and then some of them go straight. So the flexibility of the degree is also quite amazing. But yeah, you know, bachelor's rehab degrees exist um throughout the country, which is pretty fantastic.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 5:56

Yeah, and I mean, I personally I'd love to see more of them. And it's great to know, kind of like you said, that it gives you some flexibility in like what is your career going to look like? Do you want to take that degree you've earned and and and do the work and fill those roles that you know you've been trained to do? Do you want to go on to a graduate program and focus more on those kind of counseling skills and develop those kind of clinical expertise elements that are going to allow you to do a little bit um more specifically with like a traditional counseling or evoke you know, rehab experience? And I I think that's nice because not everyone's goal is to go on to graduate school. Like you said, you knew senior year that that was kind of what you wanted to follow. And I I like the idea that if there's a delineation between what someone with an undergraduate and rehabilitation can do and what someone with a graduate degree can do, that frees up the graduates and the CRCs to be able to do more of the counseling that they're trained to do. And those undergraduates can fill in those other roles with plenty of knowledge and training in disability and rehabilitation that a lot of under other undergraduate degrees just don't get. You know, there's something very specific about having those, you know, that coursework and being able to take those skills into a into a role where you're working with people with disabilities. And um, yeah, I'd love if every college and university offered something similar.

Dr. Abigail Akande 7:14

Yeah, 100%. You know, what's so sad about my Boston University degree is that it doesn't even exist anymore. Um, and even at the time, there were a few private universities that had RC degrees, but um now it's I I think GW is the only one left and they're all you know state universities. So um not only do we need more of them, but they've been shrinking, which is kind of scary for our field because you know it's the disability burden is growing globally. So the demand will always be there for sure.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 7:45

Yeah, yeah. And as that increases, you'd love to see programs increase. And that's definitely not what we've seen, particularly post-pandemic. Um, but you know, we're we're trying to do our best, at least on the certification side, to meet with those universities and see how we can facilitate, you know, continued success. And uh whether that's becoming a center of excellence through us or even us, you we've met with deans and and and and you know, folks, faculty, and just talked about why these programs are important and we can draw lines to you know the need within their state. And so many programs also, you know, are kind of a hybrid remote uh experience now. So you might not even be limited to students just in your state. And, you know, there's as you said, there's a need everywhere, and as it increases, we want to do everything we can to keep those those programs open and thriving. And, you know, that also ties into letting students know that this is even a field they can pursue. Um, they all know what social work is and they know what mental health counseling is. We'd love for them to know what rehab counseling is. So um to you know, the work continues, right? One of the really um interesting things about your background that kind of caught my eye was a lot of your research includes uh investigations into marginalized communities, including women, immigrants, and just in general, like intersectional approaches uh to disability, race, and gender, and where those all kind of uh collide. And we know these areas have been traditionally under-researched. And I do think it's it's positive that we've seen more of that research, you know, in in the last few decades. But I think, you know, we're still very much needing to see continued improvement. So I'm just curious, as someone who's researching these things, where do you see, you know, progress that we can kind of feel um supported by or like um encouraged by? And where do you think we still need to see improvement in the ways that we explore uh the intersectionality of all of these things?

Dr. Abigail Akande 9:35

Great question. Um so I believe this year actually also marks 20 years since um the CRPD, the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. And um most countries in the world have ratified it, and we're not one of them, but that's a conversation for another day. Um in my research, so my research focuses mainly on um sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia. And I've talked to people in various countries in these parts of the world, and the common theme is a couple of common themes actually. So, one, there's an awareness of the need for supporting people with disabilities. So these are countries that have ratified the CRPD. They understand the need in growing services and protecting the human rights and you know, supporting independent living and all of those things. But the recurring issue is this lack of resources. It's like we know what we need to do. We don't have the things we need, the people that we need, the money that we need to do these things. In addition, there's the sociopolitical, cultural issue, the stigma, the cultural barriers, and and and the ways of thinking, honestly, that are that can pose a greater barrier than any of the physical or psychological implications of the diagnoses themselves. So there's a lot of work to be done there. But um what is promising, in 2023, the World Health Assembly passed a resolution um where a lot of countries agreed on the need to um incorporate rehabilitation into universal health care. Right? So instead of just your medical needs and even public health has gotten a lot of same, especially post-COVID, you know, we understand medicine, we understand preventative medicine. Rehabilitation is still um not getting the attention that it deserves, and and and people don't have access to rehab services for the reasons we've discussed, you know, the workforce and the lack of resources and things like that. But there's also even a lack of understanding. I've seen too, and people not fully understanding what rehabilitation means. Even here in the US, I always have to tell people what rehabilitation and rehabilitation counseling means. People would think it's you know, focusing on substance abuse, you know, and substance use disorder is a component of it, unfortunately, but it's not the end-all-be-all of rehab, as we know. Um, and so in other parts of the world, it's that same confusion of, well, what is rehabilitation? And you know, I've written a little bit about this recently, and I have a theory on this, and um medicine is uh curative. Well, that's the goal anyway. Fix the problem. Public health is preventative, let's prevent the problem from happening in the first place. The world of rehab means, you know, we're deal we're working with people with conditions that cannot be cured or they're going to live with for their whole life. And there's uh this subliminal thinking of failure in that way. This idea that, uh, and especially again in some of the parts of the world that I'm referring to, and that's where the stigma uh lies, it's you're broken, something is wrong with you, and it's always going to be wrong with you. Rehabilitation is uh partially seen as a failure, trying to help someone cope, quote unquote, with this condition. And that's one of the reasons why it doesn't get a lot of love. I interviewed a psychologist, one of very few that existed in Sri Lanka, or at least in the region where he lived, and he faced stigma as somebody who worked with people with mental health conditions by you know proximity. So I think that's one of the issues. It's um we have to change our thinking about disability and um obviously, you know, I mean, I'm speaking to the choir here, but you know, this this idea of um thriving, you know, not despite of a condition, but with this condition, because of this condition, you know, and even just that perspective, I think some people, you know, it would blow their minds to think being happy that I have this condition or being content with it or being able to thrive. You know, it's we have a long way to go in that realm. But anyway, I kind of went off on the tangent. I was talking about the World Health Umbly and the resolution. I think it's a really important step in the global um perspective of disability and you know, helping countries to really reflect on what they can do to integrate rehabilitation into their health systems. One of the things that they did mention was the importance of growing the rehab workforce and incentivizing education in rehab. Um and that is, I mean, I'm in the field because rehab was incentivized financially. So um I think that's uh, you know, we'll talk more about that, but that is definitely um something that we need to look into more.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 14:34

I love the way you kind of laid that out with like where are the gaps in understanding? Because I I think if you ask most people, like a yes or no survey, like do you think people with disabilities deserve the right to work and live? Most people are going to say yes, right? I don't know who's saying no, I guess. Yeah, you know, I don't even want to think about those people, honestly. So most people are gonna say yes. And when you get into the details of how to make that happen, that's where, like you said, there's a socioeconomic like takeover of like, well, we don't want to invest all this money if we don't know if it's even gonna work because how effective are people with disabilities in the workplace? And it's like right there, you already don't understand how people with disabilities who are trying to overcompensate for all those stigma that are thrust upon them are actually going to tend to make them even more effective workers. And then there's the whole what kind of pressure does that put on that individual to feel like they have to overcompensate to work and you get into the mental of all of it. And there's all of these influences co-occurring where you just realize that it's not that people don't necessarily care about people with disabilities. It's almost like they don't know how to care or that they have a role to play, even if they themselves are not disabled or know somebody with a disability. And for us to start framing disability as not a disability issue, but like a human rights issue, especially on a global um stage, I think is a huge way to start to recontextualize things. We've seen a recontextualization of the mental health conversation over the last couple of decades. And I always try to remind people when, you know, friends or family want to talk about mental health and all that stuff. Like mental health and mental conditions are types of disabilities. And those are things that if we applied that sort of welcoming and openness of conversation to all types of disability, maybe people wouldn't be so A, you know, unwilling to maybe hear out how we can solve for some of these issues, but B, they'd be more willing to say, like, I want to get involved in being part of the solution and uh advocating for things that'll lead to more equity for folks. And I hope that, you know, the the wins that we have seen over the years continue to pile up, uh, no matter how many different challenges may come up, you know. Resources, like you said, are always gonna be a concern because there's a bunch of different things people, you know, who are in legislative positions are worried about trying to fix or, you know, solve or prevent or whatever. But especially in the United States, when you have over one in four Americans dealing with some type of disability, and you have an aging population that's a huge chunk of Americans that are going to be thinking about exiting work, who maybe now need to stay in the workforce longer, um, who are going to be dealing with age-related conditions they've never had to deal with before. I think we're going to see in the next decade, we are going to need a lot of people who understand rehabilitation to be seeing us through what this next 10 years is going to bring. And hopefully that means there's going to be more people who want to do that work and answer that call. But I'm also hoping that means the public and, you know, folks in government and even, you know, private companies will want to put more investment into educating people to be able to work with those individuals.

Dr. Abigail Akande 17:38

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I I'm I'm hopeful that we'll get there. I know I think it's um partially a disability identity issue. Um, that one in four number, you know, I think it's an underestimation. If you really think about, and I and and you know, that's a very common statistic, but um, if you really think about the chronicity that a lot of people deal with in their daily lives that are disabling them, and they will never use that word to describe it, even though you know they have to call into work several days a month, or you know, they don't sleep well, or you know, there's just so many there's so many ways that you can be disabled by a long-term health condition that don't fit into the list of blind, deaf, blah, blah, blah, you know, that people typically correlate with being disabled. That um, and I think once we get to that area of not being afraid to say, you know what, like this is something that this is a part of me, this is something I've been dealing with, this is something that, you know, I need accommodations for, even if they don't use that word. I think once we we we move closer there as a society, um, then I think people will embrace rehabilitation and and a whole lot more and even move away from the stigma issues that I mentioned before. But um, yeah, I've realized it recently. People are just people are not making the connection, even personally sometimes.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 19:06

We've had we've had CRCs on the show who talk to clients who even qualify for state services who insist that they don't have a disability, but they're still willing to have that conversation because they know they need some sort of accommodation or they're trying to figure out why they are need to navigate the workforce in a different way than they have been. And yeah, I think hopefully what we'll see is like more representation and like presence of like intentionality in the conversation of disability so that folks realize that if they are experiencing some of these things, maybe they don't consider themselves disabled, but they they know that they experience those same things and they can come to terms maybe with figuring out what that identity means to them. Because it certainly isn't something where everyone's going to see themselves as the same, you know, label, right? But I but I do think it starts to harm everyone when we see it as like a, well, I don't want to be a part of that group. Um, that's not me. And when you start to qualify it like that, you're not only potentially doing yourself a disservice, but also harming the broader conversation around disability.

Dr. Abigail Akande 20:07

Yeah, 100%.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 20:08

It's it's great with the research that you're doing that we have, you know, professionals like you who are willing to kind of investigate these on both kind of like a macro level and then also, you know, like you said, talking to individuals who are going through this in different regions of the world. And um, you know, you going through the research that's listed on your website. There's just so much work you've done. And I was really excited when kind of looking at the the body of your professional work um to notice that this is kind of a huge year for you in terms of a big milestone. Um, you have been a certified rehabilitation counselor now for 20 years, which first of all, congratulations. And we're so grateful, you know, for all of the work you do. And um we we need more of you. So if there's clones of you anywhere, let us know and we'll we'll definitely uh try to get them certified as well. But while you've been a CRC over the last 20 years, how has that certification played into your professional identity and the work that you do and the interests that you have professionally?

Dr. Abigail Akande 21:04

Thank you. I'm very proud of that credential. Um and uh I feel like it's a credential, especially for me as someone who you know conducts research a lot overseas and presents at conferences overseas. And also I write for international audiences and international journals. And so I feel like it provides a sense of legitimacy and helping people to understand why I can talk about what I talk about, um, even if they never heard of the CRC, just knowing that it exists, I'm assuming helps. Right. Um and in a weird way, it kind of tethers me because uh I'm not a counselor educator anymore. I I was at um before Penn State, I taught at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock as a rehab counselor educator. Um, so I'm not necessarily educating rehab counselors anymore. I'm not practicing as a rehab counselor, um, but I do I still do conduct rehab counseling and look. Rehab research. And I I get to talk to my students a little bit about it to help introduce them to the field because nine and a half times out of ten, they've never heard of it. And I'm also the only CRC on my campus at Abington specifically. So it's it's a unique part of my identity, and I'm proud of it. And I look for every opportunity to talk about it to help spread the knowledge of rehab, rehab counseling.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 22:29

Yeah, no, and we appreciate that you do that. Hopefully, it's one of those things where um every you know semester you get a new batch of students, you're like, hey, stay an extra 10 minutes, let's talk about what rehab counseling is. Um, and then we'll see a bunch of people go into the field, right? So um it's something I think even when you submitted the video for um kind of our awareness project of what being a CRC means to you and things like that, I think it's it's it's helpful for the profession and for other certificates to see folks that aren't maybe counselor educators currently, or maybe they're not even working in a vocational rehabilitation setting anymore, but that credential still holds value to them because we do hear from a lot of folks that consider not renewing that, you know, I don't really need the CRC for what I'm doing right now. And, you know, we always try to remind them that the the training and the the work that goes into earning that credential not only holds, you know, personal value for that journey that you've been on, but also those skills are so highly transferable to all the different ways you can apply it. So with the research that you're doing and things like that, you know, just because you're not in the classroom teaching rehabilitation counseling courses doesn't mean that that knowledge and that that expertise isn't kind of permeating everything you do, which I think is something that we try to remind folks of when they're thinking of, you know, do I keep the credential or do I not? With working in rehabilitation and in human services and the role that you're in now, you're getting to teach kind of the next generation of students who are going to be disability professionals and and go into uh working directly with clients and the people who are impacted by disability every day. So I'm curious because we've been trying at CRCC to do a lot more to um attract students to this work, whether it's at the bachelor's level or um in master's pro, you know, they're applying for master's programs and they're not sure kind of what path to take. Um and I'm curious, you know, just for disability studies in general, what can we be doing to attract more students to do this work? Or how do we need to be framing this work to students so that they know that this is a viable uh career path to follow?

Dr. Abigail Akande 24:36

Um incentivizing. Particularly post-COVID, universities around the country, I'm assuming the world, have seen their numbers go down in terms of enrollment, and we have as well. And one of the factors um financial component to paying for an education, and then on the other side of it, what is the return that I'm gonna get on my investment? And depending on the career that you pursue with a rehab-related degree, you know, you're not necessarily gonna be a millionaire on the other side of this. So um, you know, one of the oh, I did notice uh last year, I really like started after the fact I was so angry because I wish I knew earlier that the Rehabilitation Services Administration for the first time opened up their grants to undergraduate rehab programs. It used to just be for master's and doctoral, and um, both of my degrees were um paid for by RSA, but it's the first time. And I don't know what you know compelled them to do that. Um, but I think that's a great example of what needs to be happening. Um again, you know, the the federal government has a uh you know a stake in this, you know, just thinking about BA and rehab, state rehab programs in general. You know, with my students, just thinking about what draws them into the major, most of the time they're natural empaths. And so they already know they want to help people in some way. And also a lot of them have personal experience with per either themselves as an individual or somebody close to them, whether it's disability or substance use disorder of some type. And um, and then there's the students that kind of you know stumble on it, you know. And so I I'm my first semester at Penn State, I taught a 100-level class. And then ever since then, it was 300 to 400 levels, which meant you were in the major already. And then this past spring, I taught a 100-level class for the first time again, and I realized this is a great opportunity to steal some students away from other majors, potentially, you know, and really try and do my best to um just exactly what you said, help them to see how pervasive this topic is to our lives, no matter what you do professionally, even just personally, right? And how useful this information is. And so even if you don't major in RHS, if you minor in it, if you just take a few classes in it, if the work that you do in the future is shaped in some way by what you learned in our courses, you know, your empathy toward your family member or your colleague or your friend, your own experience with a chronic health condition, even a temporary health condition that can be disabling, you know. Um having that frame of reference and that um that knowledge, I think um is really important to us as a society, honestly. Um so um we're trying, we're doing our best to grow the program. And I know a lot of universities and and rehab programs are, but um I think unfortunately the primary issue is financial.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 27:50

Right. Yeah, and those RSA grants. I mean, I I can't tell you how many students that we get a chance to talk to as they're preparing for the CRC exam who say that until they found out their program was going to be paid for, this wasn't it wasn't on their radar, nor were they even considering maybe grad school, right? And to have that access to funding, it it's just I I don't like to think of education as always like a direct dollar return on investment. But especially when you talk about earning potential and things like that, that is how you have to think because you're living and and making a living to be able to survive. And I think when you look at, again, like you had kind of mentioned the federal government's incentive to having these professionals out there, even at that undergraduate level, being able to support that through through grants, you are going to have people equipped to handle, you know, something in society that we know that we just still do not have a great grasp on as a as a totality. So it seems so worth it to me for for folks to be incentivized to take these classes and to receive these degrees and earn these degrees um with with funding to go to school. And I just think that the benefits are so are so impactful for what it means to society. And um if if grad school ends up being that interest as well, um, we're working with a couple of students right now to talk about why they chose rehabilitation counseling. And uh we always tell them, like, don't shy away from the fact that part of the reason you're studying this, because I think people always want it to be like, you know, I care deeply about people with disabilities, and that's true. It can also be the financial part of it. Um and and I think sometimes money is something you're not supposed to talk about. But um, it's like when we work with our private practice CRCs who are very happy with the money they're making and they're like, well, I don't want that to be what people know about the work I do. It's like, but that's part of it, right? Like, and that's okay to have pride in in the in the living you're making. So it it's something that I think, you know, should be a constant reminder as we're um facilitating students to even consider this work. And like you said, a lot of the people who are already going to go into a helping profession or an allied health profession are going to be drawn to doing work that matters for for people. And if we can um bring them into this profession rather than some of the other kind of tangential fields, even better. And um, you know, to your point about taking students away, CRCC doesn't condone stealing unless it's stealing students from other programs. So you're doing good on your end. Um, we fully support that. Every time we I talked, whether it's on a podcast or what uh anytime I talk to faculty who's not in a rehabilitation, you know, they're not teaching rehab counseling classes. I'm like, are you telling them though to come over here? Because, you know, if you're a CRC, that's kind of that should be in the code of efforts, honestly.

Dr. Abigail Akande 30:35

One of the classes I teach is intro to RHS. And when I first started teaching the courses, I'm like, we don't talk about rehab counseling. So I added that module in, and it's just one whole lecture on, you know, this is what rehab counseling is, this is what we do as rehab counselors, this is what the CRC credential is. And I also take them to the website that shows them all the universities that have active RSA grants. And I'm like, if you want a free master's degree or at least partially funded, talk to me. But um, you know, here's some schools that offer it, you know. I'm not ashamed, ashamed of doing that as well.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 31:09

Yeah. And again, with nine times out of 10, people, their story of how they got into this field is almost like they they they tripped on it, right? They had no idea it was there. And then they're like, oh, hey, look, I could do this. If if if we can encourage folks to make that connection and learn about this field while also telling them, hey, like there's funding out there for you, that just seems like a win-win to get more people into these programs that are telling us when we talk to them, we need to keep bringing students in, or there's going to be a real conversation of whether we can offer these degrees anymore. So um hopefully CRCC can continue to hope, you know, help facilitate some of those connections and be like, hey, look, like here's how you can tell your students about these things and what you should be telling your undergrads, even who aren't in a rehabilitation or disability program. Maybe they're psyched students and they know they want to go get a master's degree somewhere. But that disability component of this work might resonate with them in a way they didn't even know because they didn't know this profession was out there. So disability touches everybody in a very unique way, depending on if you have an experience yourself or family or friends. And, you know, it's about to be um disability pride month in July, which we're really excited to do some uh fun content projects here at CRCC about. And um, disability pride month takes place in July uh to coincide with the uh passing of the ADA. So it's just a really I always learn a lot in July from folks who are in the disability advocacy space. So I'm really looking forward to what's ahead. And you've done a lot of advocate advocacy work at every level from regional to international, as you mentioned. And something we hear a lot when we've done town halls with CRCs about like what can we do to um support you here at CRCC is this idea that people want to participate in advocacy, whether it be in their state, their city, you know, the country, but they're not really sure how to get started. What would you recommend for people who are kind of wanting to go that extra step and really work on whether it's grassroots advocacy or you know, campaigns that are already undergoing, what would you recommend people do to kind of get started in that um component of this work?

Dr. Abigail Akande 33:20

This is so such an important thing to talk about. And I think I don't think enough of us are engaged in advocacy work, to be honest. And I'm actually working on the book and I'm partially talking about this in that book, but um, there's a couple organizations that really help me, and I want to um talk about those. Um, one is research to policy, it's within Penn State, but it works with everybody everywhere. Um, and it's basically a network of professionals and researchers. Um, and the goal is to connect the work that we're doing with policymakers and helping to answer their questions. So, not necessarily like, here, read my research, but um, they there's a platform actually where you know they post different topics and different questions that legislators have from all over the country. And um, they're basically like, is there anybody out there, you know, who can speak to this specific issue about you know child welfare in this state or with this issue or you know, people with disabilities or substance, whatever they can, it's a wide variety of topics. But it's such a great way to really um put our to help the um make the work that we're doing effective and improving practices and legislation moving forward. Um and you know, as a researcher, I have the benefit of research, but clinicians who are working with clients and patients every day and on the front lines, they have insight that I don't have. And so I think that's a really great way for them to really affect change. And one of the things I've done with them also is draft policy briefs. So, you know, and it's you know, just responding again to specific requests from legislative offices and um concerns that they have locally, and it doesn't have to be the state that you're in either. But if you just have that knowledge that you can help, you know, participate. And so that um if anybody is interested, that's evidence to impact that psu.edu. The two is the number two. Um, and another one is results.org. I I got involved with them in Arkansas when I was living in Arkansas. And that's when I really learned what I could do as an ordinary citizen. I really was not well versed in it at all. And um it was a great organization where you can connect with people in your state again to address issues going on in your state. And they taught me how to contact my local legislators, um, why it was effective, why different methods of contact were more effective than others, what I could say, when I should do it, how often, you know, and just actually feeling like I had a voice. And again, as professionals, as experts in our field, you know, we have unique insights into things that our local legislators should be hearing about. Um and so I, you know, advocacy can look a lot of different ways, right? We we advocate for individuals, we advocate for whole groups of people, we advocate for the country. Um, because of my my my research is inclined toward, you know, international and national policy. So, you know, these are the um the formats of advocacy that resonate with me, but I really do think everybody um has a role to play in that regard. Um, it is also an ethical imperative for CRCs to be knowledgeable and involved in the legal aspects of our work. And I always tell my students that human services is intricately, intricately intertwined with the law. Like the services that we provide and the money that funds those services are determined by policy. And you know, we have to have a say in that. We have to have input, we have to have a voice.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 37:07

Absolutely. Yeah, and we'll include links to those two websites you mentioned in the show notes so folks can can visit those sites. And I think for a lot of people, advocacy feels like a really big word, right? And there's kind of this feeling for folks who haven't been involved in it. Um, like, well, I don't really, I I don't really have anything to say or contribute. And like you mentioned, uh, when you were talking about presenting internationally, for legislators, be it local, state, you know, national, being a CRC in particular and having a national credential, that gives you legitimacy and credibility with with these uh legislators. And, you know, even if I I think you specifically with the practitioners I've talked to, they're like, well, I'm not a I'm not a professor, I don't have my PhD. It's like, but you're working with people with disabilities every day and you have a national certification. There's there's insights that you have to share. And every professional who's working in this space has a perspective that can really hopefully enlighten the people who write policy or, you know, get policy passed to to try to make improvements to the society we live in. And I think, you know, CRCC is in an interesting split space because we we don't have a department um for advocacy in particular. But what we do quite often is we'll have CRCs, like let's say in Massachusetts or New York, which are two states we're working in right now, who will reach out and say, we could really use your help with letters or showing up to hearings and things like that and just uh talking about what what this profession is and why it matters and you know how this bill should be passed to support people with disabilities in our state. And um I just encourage everyone listening today, if there are things happening in your state where you see CRCC having a role to play in in boosting or helping out with any of those efforts, please get in touch with us because it's it's tough being a national organization located here in Chicagoland uh to have an ear to the ground of everything. But we do want to be involved in those efforts. And if those things are taking place in your state, please please let us know so we can uh help in any way we can. But yeah, even at the individual level, just taking an opportunity to see what's out there. I think those websites sound like incredible resources. And even in your own state, just looking up what's on the docket for, you know, bill season can be really interesting because there might be stuff that directly affects the work you're doing that you're not even aware of. You know, as we wrap up this conversation, I think it's been really helpful to hear your perspective on the research you do and um kind of your journey from, you know, an interest and a connection to wanting to work with people with disabilities to turning it into 20 years as a CRC. Again, we're just so fortunate to to have you in this profession. And I always like to end these conversations uh kind of on a more personal note and asking folks, what about being a CRC and the work you do brings you joy? Um, you know, I uh we don't think all the time of joy as a professional emotion, but I do think that for a lot of people in this field, joy is something that it that comes from doing this work. So what brings you joy in the work that you get to do?

Dr. Abigail Akande 40:08

You made a great point. You know, a lot of people are not happy with what they're doing. And I can say that I'm very happy with what I'm doing because I feel like I'm fulfilling my purpose. Um, like I said, for some reason, I've always had this desire to work with this population. And um, the longer I've done it, the better I feel about it, the better I get at it, you know, and honestly do feel like I'm a change maker, which is honestly an honor. Like to be in a position where you can help, you know, shape the minds of the next generation of rehabilitation professionals or uh not even shape the minds, help them to just think critically for themselves, to be honest. And um, but I am very purposeful and helping to helping them to grow in their empathy. I think that's really important just as a human being. But um, yeah, I just feel like um the other the other thing about, you know, you talked about the degree and just kind of like its flexibility and the and the different ways that you can pursue a career. And um I think that's a blessing for us too, and for all the listening, I think if you're not currently happy, there's so many ways that you can use your skills and your expertise um to shape a career that really does meet your needs personally but also professionally. And and I've been able to do that throughout the years too, you know, you know, as a professor, as a researcher, as an author, but also as a as a consultant. Um and so there's a lot of options for us to really just uh have joy in the work that you're doing, if that's not the case already. So just wanted to add that.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 41:54

Thanks to Dr. Akande for a really enlightening episode. Those advocacy resources she mentioned in our conversation were a wonderful suggestion. You can find links to them in our show notes, along with a link to submit your own story about being a certified rehabilitation counselor or working with a CRC. Fun fact if you are certified, you can get continuing education credit for your participation. So please consider taking the time to assist us in this awareness campaign. Like and subscribe to the show on social media as well as your favorite podcast platform. Just go ahead and search Inside Rehabilitation Counseling on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find links to our Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and LinkedIn pages in the show notes. And as always, thanks for spending time with us and listening to this episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing, Taylor Bauer. Take care.