CRCs in the Legal Space with Sabrina Taylor, PhD, CRC, LPC (DC), CWIP

Dr. Sabrina Taylor, LPC (DC), CRC, CWIP is the founder of Benefits Understood Counseling Services and has spent time in many of the work settings CRCs are most commonly employed.

Dr. Taylor joins the show this episode to discuss a recent publication on the CRCC website about CRCs working in the legal space. She also details her journey to begin her own practice and gives insight into what makes a CRC a good fit for working with attorneys and providing expert testimony.

Links to Follow Dr. Taylor's Work

Benefits Understood Website

LinkedIn Profile

SEAK Expert Witness Profile

Read Dr. Taylor's article on the CRCC blog here.

CRCC Links

CRCC Website

Facebook

Instagram

LinkedIn

TikTok

Transcript

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 0:04

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing Taylor Bauer, and I'm glad you're back for another conversation exploring the art and science of rehabilitation counseling. A recent article posted on the CRCC website detailed why certified rehabilitation counselors should be on every attorney's radar. Got great feedback on that article, and I'm pleased to share that today's guest is the author of that article, Dr. Sabrina Taylor, founder of Benefits Understood Counseling Services. Dr. Taylor shared a really great insight into why CRCs might want to work in the disability hearing work setting, as well as why lawyers seek out CRCs for this important role. As this work setting grows, we see more and more demand for CRCs in these spaces. And this episode might be great for you if you're interested in a new path along your certification journey. Let's hear from Dr. Taylor now. Please enjoy this conversation. Dr. Taylor, thanks so much for joining me on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. Folks who are listening today might have your name on the brain because we were just actually able to post an article of yours last week on our CRCC blog, which you can find on our website. So I'm really glad that there's kind of some synergy here of having your article go up and then getting to have a conversation with you. I appreciate your time. Really um excited to learn from you and hear from you today. And I think a great place to start is sort of at the beginning of your professional journey. Um, so tell me about how you found your way uh to rehabilitation counseling and what drew you to this line of work.

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 1:37

First, thank you, Taylor, for having me here today. And uh to answer your question, my path to rehabilitation counseling stemmed from my experience of owning an adult care home business for adults with schizophrenia when I was 22. Uh, I had the opportunity to see adults with severe impairments drive, volunteer, and still live independently in a residential care setting. So as I learned more about rehabilitation counseling, I realized it brought together so many areas that matter to me, such as counseling, disability, employment, uh, advocacy, and education, but also systems change. And so I decided to pursue my master's degree in rehabilitation counseling at North Carolina AT State University in North Carolina. And then I later completed my PhD at North Carolina AT State University as well. And over time I worked in counseling, federal government, higher ed, disability services, and vocational rehabilitation, and currently forensic vocational consulting. Each of those experiences has reinforced to me that rehabilitation counseling is one of the most versatile counseling professions.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 3:12

Definitely agree with that. And I, you know, we'll we'll dive into some of that forensic work that you're doing because I think it's a a really powerful area when we talked about like the growth of this profession. And even in the four years I've been here at CRCC, um, it's it's a space we've seen kind of skyrocket in terms of interest from counselors, interest from from legal professionals, and I think um a need in our country for for experts like CRCs to be in these roles. I I do want to um, I was picturing when you were kind of walking through your your professional journey, um, like day one of orientation in your in your master's program. And, you know, some people come to this line of work through, you know, like, oh, I worked in state VR kind of by coincidence and got started. And I'm picturing you as they go around the circle saying, like, well, I owned a an adult home care center at 22 years old, and people probably kind of taking a step back and being like, How did that happen? What an incredible like way to kind of get exposed to not only like the need for um professionals who can support folks to live independently and and be able to be the the fullest version of themselves as possible, but then also to know like what those challenges are and shortcomings to them be able to apply to your future work. Um, was that like a was that an opportunity that just sort of kind of popped up organically, or was that something you kind of knew even from a younger age that like you wanted to be helping people?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 4:34

Well, you know, that's a good question. Um so many years ago, I'm not going to age myself, but uh I was 22. I had just really graduated from um my undergraduate program, and I'd really didn't know what direction I wanted to go into. I just knew I wanted to help people. And so uh an opportunity came about through word of mouth for someone who was stepping back from their duties in this particular business, and they were looking for someone to take it over. I was 22, it seemed very interesting to me. My mother is in health care. I talked to her and she was supported me and she said, if you want to do this, do it. And so I uh took the chance. I knew absolutely nothing about caring for adults with schizophrenia, much less, you know, taking care, managing a household, building a business, um, managing staff. I learned on the fly. Uh there were a lot of things that I learned to do, a lot of things I learned not to do. But I will say that owning that business gave me a crash course in business ownership. And it also gave me a crash course and understanding the many dynamics that persons with uh physical impairments, with mental health impairments deal with on a daily basis and the supports that are needed, not only from the staff serving them, but the community itself.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 6:15

Yeah, absolutely. It takes a village, right? Um, for all of those folks involved, even the people who maybe they don't have a loved one living in a facility like that, but live in the area, like there are ways to get involved and advocate for services, even if they don't directly impact you. So we all kind of have a role to play, which is wonderful. You know, I can definitely see a through line, obviously, with the work you're doing now. Um, you're the founder of Benefits Understood Counseling Services. And um, I would imagine that some of this crash course, as you said, in in this uh first experience at after undergrad has kind of directly connected to the work you're doing now. So through that experience and then some of the other um work settings you got to experience throughout your career, did you always see yourself as someone who wanted to run their own practice and kind of what was that process like of starting uh the practice you run now?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 7:05

Well, you know, I've always have been someone who notices the gaps and I start thinking about how those gaps could be addressed. And so, yes, I have always seen myself as a visionary and benefits understood counseling services grew from recognizing that people with disabilities and their families often receive fragmented information. They may have one person helping them with employment, another person discussing benefits, and then someone else addressing mental health concerns, but no one is helping them understand how all of those areas connect. So I wanted to build a company that could help people understand those systems and make informed decisions. So the name Benefits Understood, it reflects that purpose. Public benefits can be very confusing. The fear of losing benefits can prevent people from pursuing employment. And our role is to make the information understandable and help people see their options. And you know, Taylor, starting the business required much more than having clinical and vocational expertise. I had to learn contracting, billing, compliance, documentation, marketing, staffing, and business development. Some of that I had from my experience when I was 22. And then a lot of that was gathered over time, but then there was still a lot more to learn. So I had to become comfortable presenting the value of my expertise and also becoming comfortable charging appropriately for my professional services. And over time, my business has evolved. You know, we started off just doing benefits counseling and then it turned into supported employment and vocational rehabilitation. But now the primary service area of my business is forensic vocational work, and it has become a huge part of our company's growth. And entrepreneurship has taught me to remain flexible. I began with one vision, but then I had to pay attention to where my expertise was needed the most. So now I see my business as both a service organization and a platform for expanding how rehabilitation counseling expertise is used.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 9:45

I love that. And I think it probably is true of any profession, but I think particularly with certified rehabilitation counselors, the ability to stay open-minded and kind of go where the opportunities are in terms of the extent to which you can make an impact on the people you're seeking to serve is such a unique opportunity. Sometimes I think you get a degree and it's like, okay, I'm gonna go off and do this one thing. And even just in your practice, let alone the experience that came before it, you've kind of you know detailed that this is something where you have gotten to kind of have your hands on all the different opportunities that exist within rehabilitation counseling and uh disability support services. And it's it's a great way to view like what does your future look like if you're in a master's program right now? Um, it doesn't have to be linear, it doesn't have to necessarily be you take this one path and you're on that path until retirement. And even just in your practices, as you were, as you were mentioning, getting to kind of start with one goal or one, you know, kind of key service and then expand that and be able to see that help not only boost like growth, um, but also it was sounding a little bit like an in improvement into even like self-confidence, as you said, like charging for your services and things like that. Money is a weird part of working in a human-centric profession, right? You don't want to say like I'm here to, I'm here to get paid, but like we all are trying to make a living. And I think that there is such value in knowing your worth through not only the education you have, but the skills you develop. And it's wonderful to hear that throughout, you know, running this practice, it's been something that has continued to kind of serve as like a cornerstone for almost sounds like um confirmation that like you're in the right field, you're making an impact, and you're doing work that is helping people every day. And we're we're grateful for that. Thank you. For anyone listening today who isn't familiar with kind of the legal work setting for CRCs as much as others, can you talk about what role CRCs would play in the legal space?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 11:48

Yes, definitely. Um certified rehab counselors can play several important roles uh in legal settings. The exact role depends on the type of case and the question a court is trying to answer. So for instance, a CRC can evaluate a person's education, their employment history, transferable skills, their functional limitations, or their potential earning capacity. We may be asked whether someone can return to their previous occupation, whether other work is realistically available, or how an injury or disability has impacted that person's ability to compete in the labor market. So CRCs, they can work in personal injury, workers' comp, employment discrimination, wrongful termination, divorce, medical malpractice, or disability-related matters. And I've had the opportunity to actually touch each of these areas in legal settings. And I believe the one that surprised me most was working in the divorce area because most people don't think divorce as being an area that vocational rehabilitation counselors touch, but it's actually a very strong area. Uh CRCs, they uh consult with employers and internees regarding job qualification standards, essential functions, uh, reasonable accommodations, employability, and vocational implications. So, in some matters, our work is less about testifying and more about helping the legal team understand the vocational evidence. And it is our job to make sure that we are adhering to the CRC Code of Ethics. I'm not there to offer a legal opinion or determine liability. Um, but my role is essentially to provide an objective vocational opinion that connects the person's abilities, their limitations, um, and their work history and the labor market evidence of what is available.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 14:11

Sure. Yeah. And even in that one word setting, there are so many different things you can use your certification and expertise for. And I I guess, in your opinion and experience, why is it that CRCs are sought after in this setting? You know, there are um plenty of people who work with people with disabilities. I I picture like even like HR professionals, things like that. What do you think it is that makes CRCs kind of seen as the go-to expert in these settings? And if lawyers aren't necessarily, you know, maybe working with a CRC now, why would they want to maybe seek one out in their community?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 14:45

Taylor, that is a very good question. Um, certified rehab counselors, we bring a combination of knowledge, um, disability expertise, um, vocational analysis, skills, and capability. But we also have this understanding of employment systems. So that combination is very difficult to find in one professional. It's hard to find an HR professional. It's hard to find in an employment attorney. You need someone who really understands all of these pieces, but actually perform these pieces presently or in their past work history. At CRCs, we understand that a diagnosis alone does not determine whether someone can work. Two people can have the same diagnosis and experience very different functional and vocational outcomes. So a CRC examines how the condition impacts the individual, what the person can still do, the barriers that exist, and then whether appropriate employment options are realistically available. We're also trained to consider the interaction between the person and their environment. So a person may be unable to perform one job, but fully they are capable of performing another. So I say that because attorneys should connect with CRCs early because vocational issues can shape the entire direction of the case that they have been retained for. A CRC can find missing records, I'm sorry, identify missing records, clarify the relevant vocational questions, and then evaluate the strengths and limitations of a claim, and then prevent the assumptions about disability or uh employability from going unchallenged. So even when testimony may not be needed in court, consultation with a CRC can help an attorney understand what the vocational evidence does and does not support.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 16:52

And I didn't even really think of that before. I always think of it as like, you know, there's always going to be a testimony perspective or a testimony stage in that uh case. But even just having a CRC that you know you can reach out to for consultation could be so helpful. And I think you made a good point with like the earlier the better, because if you start kind of, you know, building that case and then suddenly realize a blind spot you overlooked because, you know, as a lawyer, you're the legal expert. You're not the disability employment and vocational expert that a CRC is. Overlooking something could make that process of having a successful outcome for that case um much more difficult and potentially um not allow it to be a successful outcome without that kind of expert eye um assisting you. And I think that there's so many people who they know about state VR, they know about working for the VA. I I think a lot of CRCs, even the ones that I have a chance to talk to when I present to university programs, um don't necessarily know that this is a space they can work in. Because I think there's not a whole lot of like visibility, I guess, for like the legal world unless you're like in it. Um either as someone who's like part of a case or uh you wanted to be a lawyer maybe and you're you know going through the motions of getting that education? It's it's to me very much catered to the way that maybe somebody might want to be working in this field, um, even if they don't know it. So I guess I'm curious, like in your experience, what makes a CRC or like a soon-to-be CRC fit for forensic work? Like, are there skills or interests that the CRC might have that would make them a strong candidate to pursue this pathway?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 18:36

Absolutely. A strong certified rehab counselor needs to be analytical, they need to be curious, organized, and they need to be comfortable defending their reasoning. They must be willing to examine information objectively, including information that's that does not support the opinion the retaining party may have expected. Um, they have to be a strong writer, and they must be able to connect their vocational opinion to records, interviews, their vocational methodology, the labor market evidence that's available, and the facts of the case. Also, having experience as a CRC in terms of vocational rehabilitation is often even stronger when it is paired with additional certifications that fall within vocational rehab, but also in other services. For instance, I am a certified rehabilitation counselor, I am a licensed professional counselor in DC. I am also a certified work incentives practitioner, which means that I'm able to sit with individuals with disabilities and explain to them the advantages of working if they're receiving SSI and SSDI benefits through the ticket to work program. So having this knowledge base but additional experience within vocational rehabilitation counseling, but also mental health, it creates this uh opportunity to be able to truly examine a case from many different lens. And being able to pay attention to detail is very pertinent to this profession. Um, a small difference in a job duty, a credential, or a medical restriction can significantly affect the vocational analysis. You have to have professional confidence and emotional composure. The work will be challenged during a deposition or cross-examination. You have to be able to explain your opinion without becoming defensive and understanding that the goal is not to win an argument, but it is to remain objective, communicate clearly, and assist the decision maker and understanding the vocational evidence.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 21:13

Absolutely. I've heard from a couple other CRCs who work in this space that those first couple um hearings that they participate in are like a not a roller coaster, like, oh, it's just why it's not like a movie, right? Where people are shouting objection all the time and stuff. But um what was, I mean, was your experience like doing the a hearing for the first time kind of like whoa, like whiplash a little bit? And is it something because I've been told by others that after you do a few, you're like, okay, I kind of get how like what the beats are, how this goes. Now I'm kind of all in on it. Was that kind of your experience for the first hearing you were a part of?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 21:49

Absolutely. I equate it to my PhD dissertation defense.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 21:54

Wow.

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 21:54

And yeah, so after I went through that and I prepared for For it, just like I did my PhD um dissertation defense. Um my I had an understanding of the process and I became much more comfortable and it became much more easier. But my nerves were definitely heightened during those first few.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 22:20

I would imagine, yeah. And and and good for you for doing it. Cause I always picture, like, if I was in that, I'm not a CRC, but I always picture, I'm like, I feel like if I was put in that position, all of a sudden I would blink and I'd be done. And I'd be like, what did I just say? Or do like almost like I like blacked out for a second, like, what just happened? So it it's definitely daunting. But I think for for a lot of folks that we've spoken to, either on the podcast or um just conversations I've had with CRCs, you kind of know after that first one, like, oh, is this for me? And for a lot of people, it like all of a sudden clicks, and you're like, this is where I can be using my expertise and my skills um effectively. And I think you also mentioned obviously additional certifications. Those are hugely helpful in being able to not only even like present you with additional skill sets to be able to utilize, but also you mentioned that confidence aspect. Having letters behind your name isn't just like a collection of the alphabet, right? It's it's additional time and effort you've put into adding to your toolkit and being able to say, like, these are things I have a deeper knowledge of. And um, you know, CRCC announced earlier this year that we're um rolling out a life care planning certification at the end of this year. And that's another space I know a lot of life care planners who work in uh uh disability hearings and kind of the expert Vogue space. Um, that's a that's an additional credential that they like to pursue. So I'm happy that we'll be providing an additional, you know, onboarding for that. And it's something also that it's easy to overlook just how complicated all of this is when you're not doing the work. And even just getting to hear you talk about it today. I'm like, yeah, I understand all of this, but I can't even fathom what it's like to go through the process of preparing for something like this. And for people with disabilities, you know, these are not systems that they necessarily have fluency in or, you know, things that they are going to feel confident pursuing. I know even on your website, you have some really great worksheets. Uh, you mentioned, like, with what does it mean to be working while still receiving benefits? There are some great resources on your website that kind of I think are a great introduction to how you'd even go about figuring those things out. And then hopefully um, after they kind of look around that worksheet, they reach out to you and they're like, all right, I need this, uh, let's get started. And I think it all kind of coalesces into this idea that CRCs, whether it's the individual with a disability, whether it's an employer, whether it's the broader legal system or an insurance company, whoever you're you know speaking to in these kind of legal settings and and hearings, you're kind of like this connector between all these different people. And you're not there, as you said, to to win for one person or the other. You're there to say, this is what the facts are. And objectively, this is how the disability is intersecting with employability or capability or um what whatever is at hand. And I think that you know, there might be professionals who can do an a fraction of that, and then you'd need to bring on like four other people to fill in the gaps with a CRC. You you are getting someone who can navigate all of those different spaces and how they intersect. And um, I think for a lot of people who don't know about this line of work, that could be a very fun puzzle to get to solve. Um, if that's kind of how your brain, you know, we all have brains that work different ways. And I think some people who are very analytical and detail-oriented and like knowing that the time and energy they've put into their education and their training um matters and that they like feeling like they are the expert on what they talk about. This to me seems like a perfect area to pursue professionally.

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 25:57

Yes, most definitely I agree.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 25:59

And part of bringing you on for this episode, and um again, thank you for being here, and then also contributing the article um that went up on our website last week um is because I kind of view that forensic work could be a huge selling point for why people would want to become CRCs. Um, and you know, the conversation that we're trying to begin uh with some of the marketing stuff that I get to do is, you know, we want people to know about the credential and even just rehabilitation counseling in general before they're already in a master's program, right? And I could see that this would be something that would really um be encouraging or potentially, you know, pique someone's interest to say, like, oh, this is maybe work I want to do if they knew that this was a part of the profession that they could pursue. So what should we be telling students or people in their master's programs who aren't quite sure if they want to go into rehabilitation counseling about forensic work to kind of help us sell why the CRC is so versatile?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 27:02

The CRC got me into many doors and spaces as a standalone credential, um, especially paired with my PhD, more so than any of the other licenses and certifications that I have. And what my advice to those who are interested in this credential and rehabilitation counseling as a whole, is that don't fall into the belief that uh having a CRC will only lead to one type of position, because I am proof that it's not true. In reality, the degree of credential can lead to careers in state vote rehab, private practice, behavioral health, disability services, higher ed, employee accommodations, workers' comp, uh, federal employment, expert witness work, and many other settings. Forensic work is a strong selling point because it shows that the CRCs possess specialized knowledge that has value beyond traditional counseling environments. I would not be in forensic vocational counseling if not for that CRC credential or even the CVE that is offered by CRCC. I'm not a C VE yet, I'm working on that. But the CRC and the CVE can open many doors for you in this particular line of work. And again, uh attorneys and HR professionals who consult with vocational experts understand that you know we know that disability function, employment, and vocational systems all interact together and they're very relevant where decisions are being made about work capacity, accommodations, or even earning potential. So I would tell students do not have your entire career mapped out or before you pursue the degree. You should think about building a focus as having a strong professional foundation and learning how broadly your skills can be applied. A master's in rehabilitation counseling does not define you to one career. A CRC does not confine you to just one trajectory. It gives you a professional lens that can travel with you throughout your professional's journey. So we should represent rehabilitation counseling as a profession that allows people to create a career around their strengths and their interests. And the credential can be a foundation for not only service, but entrepreneurship.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 30:03

Well said. And I I you mentioned before when you were talking about additional certifications, but thank you for shouting out the CVE. That's definitely something that a lot of folks who end up in this space like to go after. And um, I look forward to sending you your digital badge when you complete the CVE. Um I think like one of the funny things is like obviously we administer the CRC credential, the CVE, uh, the CRL, things like that. We at CRCC know that other credentials exist. We do not feel like you're cheating on us when you go and get additional ones. And I think in particular, you know, you mentioned being an LPC. Um, there is a lot of people who want to go into a master's level counseling program because they want their LPC. And some states allow you to, you know, seek out licensure by taking the CRC exam, some others don't, which is an ongoing uh advocacy effort for us here at CRCC. Um, but I do think that there's a perspective on the credential if you're not in some of these spaces that um are going to more or less require you to have the CRC, that like, well, I can go get my LPC and that's gonna open more doors. If you hear from any of the counselors that we have on the show or anybody who's, you know, relatively active on LinkedIn or things like that, having that certification is going to amplify any of the other credentials that you're seeking. So if you are able to get um your CRC and the LPC is still your maybe even your main goal, it is okay. We accept that that's going to be your goal and in your purpose for kind of maybe going through a master's program. But I think when you look at uh some of the expert testimony work that we've talked about today, or any number of work settings where the CRC and having that expertise in disability and employment and all these different uh even just business skills that go into a counseling uh credential, that's going to be a differentiator not only when you're up against other candidates for a role, but also, as you mentioned, Dr. Taylor, the ability to build out a skill set that gives you the professional versatility to um to move into different spaces without having to necessarily take steps backward to say, well, now let me go get this because I need I'm missing something in in what I have to offer. And I think having that mindset of the CRC as either the cornerstone of a professional kind of um credential toolkit or seeing it as a way to pair other uh certifications in the space that you have as maybe a primary goal. Um, pair those together to be able to really make a case for for your expertise and and the things that you can provide, all of these different work settings. We just hear all the time that that's something that a lot of folks value deeply. And it's not always, I think, something that you might have a great perspective on as you're getting started in a master's program. Because, like you said, you shouldn't plan out an entire career. And I love what you said about just focus on getting the most full-fledged educational, you know, foundation that you can, and then find out maybe it is trying out a couple different work settings the first, you know, five to ten years of your career and seeing what works for you. You might even be listening to this episode and be like, everything I've heard, I know that this forensic work wouldn't necessarily be for me, but it's wonderful to know that there are opportunities out there for you to try these things because of the doors the credential opens. And um hearing from you is just a really great testament to that.

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 33:32

Thank you. And I was just going to add to what you've stated. Um, you know, for me, and I did it backwards compared to most of my peers. I graduated with a master's in rehabilitation counseling, and where many of my peers went ahead and immediately pursued an OPC. I didn't for many years until recently, within the past five years. And I had that CRC as a standalone for many years, and it has served me well in my profession without being a licensed uh counselor. So again, I did not get my licensure until recent years. And the CRC has got me in the room in higher ed. It's gotten me into forensic vocational work, um, vocational rehabilitation. So I do want to urge people or it continue to express you can have a career with just your CRC credential and still touch many different avenues without even ever becoming licensed. So it is possible because I am a testament to that.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 34:39

Absolutely. And and you coming on a show like this and getting to kind of say that and share your journey, I think is so powerful because, you know, it it's helpful to see people who have kind of like walked that walk, right? And I think if people take time to visit your website and learn more about the work you've done from this episode and, you know, going going and learning more about you, they'll see just how much you've been able to accomplish. And I could see that as being a wonderful um reassurance if I was in a master's program, like, oh, is that is this rehab counseling thing gonna work out? Am I maybe making the wrong decision? Should I go into another field? I think hearing from folks like you who have made such a profound impact, not only on the people that you work with, but also just the profession at large is a great way to kind of instill confidence in the next generation and say, like, this is a field not only that you should pursue, but we need you to to be serving these populations and doing this work because it's only going to get more and more important that we have experts in these um positions to be able to be objective, know the ins and outs of how disability impacts all these different aspects of life, and and be able to continue to serve um a portion of the population who um in many cases ends up getting overlooked or uh underestimated. And it's it's because of folks like you that um hopefully we're slowly but surely chipping away at some of those misunderstandings about what disability means in terms of uh employability, um, productivity, and just the ability to um live a full-fledged life in society. So um we're we're super grateful for all of the work that you do. And I think a lot of times we don't necessarily picture um the courtroom or legal hearings or things like that as a place where many people experience joy. Um it's seen as a pretty um serious work setting, but I do know just in the conversations we've had, that um you have found a lot of purpose and and impact in the in this work. So I want to close the conversation today by just asking you, with all of the different things you've done and the incredible work you're doing, um, what brings you joy in in your professional role?

Dr. Sabrina Taylor 36:47

What brings me the most joy is helping people see possibilities that they could not see before. And in my line of work, that can happen when a person finally understands how working may affect their benefits and realizes that they have more options than they thought. Sometimes it happens when someone with a disability begins to see their abilities and professional value differently. In my forensic work, it can happen when I bring clarity to a case that's very complicated and help ensure that that person's vocational circumstances are accurately understood. I find joy in teaching and mentoring and helping students and other rehabilitation professionals recognize how valuable their training is. And I want CRCs to understand that they have expertise that belongs in an important conversation about disability employment, accommodations, and access. And ultimately, I enjoy work that creates clarity. I enjoy working with the client, student, attorney, and employer, and seeing them have that aha moment where it all connects. I want them to leave a conversation with a cleaner understanding of what is possible and what should happen next to the Dr.

Taylor Bauer, CRCC 38:22

Sabrina Taylor for her time and insight. Dr. Taylor's blog on why attorneys should have CRCs in their roster of trusted professionals is linked in the show notes. If you have a topic you'd like to contribute an article for on the CRCC website, go ahead and reach out to us at contactus at CRCcertification.com. Like and subscribe to the show, Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, on social media, as well as your favorite podcast platform. Go ahead and search Inside Rehabilitation Counseling on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to us today. You can find links to our Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and LinkedIn pages in the show notes of this episode. And as always, thanks for spending time with us and listening to this episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling. I'm CRCC, Director of Communications and Marketing Taylor Bauer. Take care.