16- Reconciling Your Religious Beliefs And The Swinger Lifestyle (*Listener Q&A!)

Did you know some of "God's people" in the Bible were swingers??? Lots of people who grew up religious struggle to enjoy their sexuality when they discover their interest in the swinger lifestyle. Did you grow up in church and now wonder if the lifestyle is ok to be a part of? Does God approve? Does he still love you? Were any of God's people "swingers" in their day? Is it ok to be who you really are and how God sexually made you to be, especially since you are drawn to the swinger lifestyle? In this listener Q&A episode of the New Swingers Podcast, John & June discuss questions and potential contradictions about sex, the Bible, and the Christian faith from their personal point of view and how they have begun to reconcile their religious roots with the swinger lifestyle. This is one swinger-licious episode you DON'T want to miss!

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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the New Swinger's podcast. I'm John,

Speaker 2 (00:03):
And I am June.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
And you just had a

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Shiver day. I did. It went all the way down

Speaker 1 (00:07):
<laugh>. I give you chills.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
They're multiplying <laugh>. It was in control. Yeah, I think I like it.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
All right. Today we have your new swinger's q and a. We got some emails with some very relevant questions that a lot of you, uh, probably deal with mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because you're either in a family, maybe you have kids or you grip religious. We're not, this isn't a total religious episode, but one of the questions does touch on, uh, a religious upbringing here in North America. Uh, and so, uh, that's often a point of tension or friction or not knowing what to think or do, uh, when it comes to that clashing with the lifestyle and what you were taught to believe. So we have some of those questions as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So be sure to listen to the end. And by the way, if you haven't done so already, scroll right down and click that little five star review. If you, if you like this podcast, take the next two seconds, scroll down, hit the five star review button if that's helpful.

(01:07):
Or however many stars you think we deserve. We're not telling you what to do and leave us a review. And the reason, you know, this takes like 10 seconds to do for like, click the stars, leave review. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's very easy, very fast. It helps us reach more people. Yeah. And it tells other people like you that there's others like them listening to this and getting value out of it so they can be helped as well. So go click those five stars right now. We sure would appreciate it. Yeah. And, uh, oh, we got <laugh>. We've had people asking us about the vodka helps t-shirt

Speaker 2 (01:35):
<laugh>.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
We actually now have a link in the show notes and we were able to set up a drop shipping deal where we can get you all kinds of vodka helps. Swag, <laugh>, including a T-shirt. Yes. So again, we started, we mentioned that on like a couple of the episodes, Uhhuh, and we started getting emails coming in, going, Hey, if you have those, we will buy 'em.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
So if you have any other swinger swag ideas you want us to create, let us know and, uh, we'll consider it and look at it.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I thought I just had, I thought I had one the other day and now I can't remember what it was. It was like vodka,

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Vodka makes me brave.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh, that's what it was. Vodka makes me brave. <laugh>. Well, that's like

Speaker 1 (02:15):
That. Yeah. When we go, we go to the club or a party and you're kind of nervous. You just have some vodka and suddenly you're just brave more and you're like, Let's do this.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Where I get on the stage of the club and I'm dancing and with other girls up there on the stage and I would've never wearing, basically ever

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Done that wearing basically nothing.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah. Brawn panties and that was it.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
<laugh>. Yep. And it was hot

Speaker 2 (02:36):
With heels, <laugh>, big black wedge heels. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh yeah. So today we have some questions. We're gonna get straight to it here. This first one says, Hey y'all, my wife and I are new to the lifestyle and we do have some questions that we think y'all might be able to address to some extent. Sounds like these people are

Speaker 2 (02:58):
From, from the south as well,

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Somewhere. I don't know where they're from, so we're not saying cuz we don't know. Yep. So do you wanna read this first question?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah. One of the questions I have is about your mental head space when it comes to the subject of religion. My family was not over religious to where I felt forced, but I would consider myself a Christian and struggle with my beliefs that I have known to be true for most of my life. And how that interacts with my lifestyle choice. Is this something that you struggled with in the past or currently struggle with? What is your opinion on the subject and how would you suggest that I get past it?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Hmm. What are your thoughts on that first, I have a few thoughts written down.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I would say, me personally, I still, I still struggle with it a little bit. It's still there. Um, like I'll play with a girl and then afterwards I'm like, I feel shame. You know, like, what are you doing that's not, you know, you're not supposed to do that.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, not all the time.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
No. But it still tries to trickle in though

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Because you've told me like, you know, while you're doing it and immediately after you're like, Yeah, there's just no shame and there wasn't mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I think sometimes I think what you're referring to is like, we all, we all get the voices in our heads. Yeah. You know, that like, when you least expect it, they creep up on you.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
For me, it's usually the next day.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now it's not a total deal breaker. It doesn't ever seem, it just seems to be like a minor thing that kind of echoes, at least as far as I can tell. Would that be true? Talk about that.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah. It's more of just like, well, kind of like I said, just like, uh, what are you doing? Like you're only supposed to be with John and nobody else, and why are you playing with a girl now? Like, what's, what's wrong with you? Which, nothing is wrong with me, but, but the way I grew up so overly religious, I think even more than John. Yeah. I've really had a lot more to deal with that mentally than he has.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah. Well and you know, that was one big point of tension, uh, a couple of big fights ago, uh, that, that we had, that you were trying to get past and we just, we couldn't figure out what the hell it was. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it, it had to do with religion. Yeah. And you know, only being with your spouse sexually, you know, growing up in, in a church environment, you're talk, you're only supposed to be with your spouse. Yeah. Well we were talking, I was like, well, we were together last night when we were playing with that other couple or at that lady, like we were together and we both enjoyed it. We were in agreement. Everybody was consenting like we were with each other. And so you gotta, you gotta kind of ask like, you know, like what does that mean with you? Like, cuz I, number one, I don't think our sex life is anybody's business but ours.

(06:00):
Yeah. Especially if growing up super religious, you know, and nobody ever talked to us about sex because we, nobody ever talked to either of us. No. About sex. All we were told is it's fucking wrong. Don't do it. It's evil. Which clearly that is not the case. So now my whole question is, you know, what would someone have the audacity to try to like come back into our life, a parent or guardian and say, Hey, we don't like what we found out you're doing sexually. It's like, Oh, well where the fuck were you when I was

Speaker 2 (06:34):
12? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
And I needed guidance and we didn't know anything about sex. No. How it was done. STDs, pregnancies, all this stuff that we should have been taught

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> well with me, and I'll, I'll just share just briefly, but with me, I was raped and molested when I was four, four years old, about six or seven. And so I was like, I don't wanna have sex. Like, that hurt me. So all growing up until maybe maybe high school, I didn't even wanna, you know, think about that. And so, you know, growing up I was kind of happy that nobody did talk to me about it. Cuz I would've been like, uh, no. That, that no, that doesn't sound good at all.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Or, or somebody could have explained to you what was done to you was wrong. That's not the way it's intended.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah. Which didn't happen either. So,

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Well, well because nobody talked about anything mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, I mean, I know, you know, we'll get to that other question relevant to that, but, you know, I'll say this, the biggest thing is you need to come to your own conclusions with this where you're comfortable. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, now in the past when I was younger, Yeah. I actually did go to Bible college and so I'm, I'm no, I'm no newbie when it comes, I'm no Bible scholar, but I'm no newbie to what comes, what what the Bible says about things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, I've studied, I've been taught all the, all the arguments and the rebuttals and, you know, the theology, the apologetics, which is basically all the, the pre-canned answers they give you to, to debate people who have logical arguments, uh, and intelligent ones against some of these types of issues mm-hmm. <affirmative> when you're raised in a Christian home. Yeah. Like I know all those, like I was trained in them to use them. Um, but also some of those arguments don't have a lot of, they don't have a lot of more depth beyond the initial surface level sometimes. Yeah. And my take on it is this, we're humans and we were made for sex.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
<laugh> and religion told us what they want us to believe about God based on their agenda. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean the, this stuff that we were raised on was written thousands of years ago by people we didn't know. And it'll hold completely different culture that isn't even in so many ways close to this one. Yeah. And then when you get to the, when you get to the translations of what a lot of these things say, a lot of things that are taught in the Bible nowadays, it doesn't actually, the original things that are, were actually written in the original language and what they meant, the connotations, the context. They don't mean anything like what we are taught those things mean in an American church in this day and age. But things are, things are so, like, so many things are misconstrued and taught different where like, I've heard preachers in big churches preach sermons on topics. And I, and I wonder to myself, did that fucking guy even go to Bible college? Like, has he ever have you, has he even studied? Like that's not even what that story means. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> yet they're, they're teaching it with a certain message, an agenda. And this is how you're supposed to live. And people are just like saying Amen and all this and you're agreeing, but they haven't read it for themselves. Yeah. Which is why they don't know any better that this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about

Speaker 2 (09:45):
<laugh>. Well, and I have a question for all those people. You ready for my question? There are so many people in the Bible you read about that's had like, like that they have had orgies, that they've had multiple husbands had multiple wives

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Prostitute. Oh, here you want me to quote it? Yeah, yeah. Cuz Okay. So, so if there was a problem with the swinger lifestyle from a religious, like by religious, I mean North American Christian perspective in the 21st century, that's what we mean by religion, because that's what the question is coming from. And that's also our background. Um, do you remember a guy named King David? He was called a man after God's own heart. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, He killed Goliath, became king of Israel. He was, he's literally hailed as a biblical hero, a king that is a man after God's own heart. He had multiple wives and many, many, many what are called concubines, which is just an old term for prostitutes. Yeah. Um, that he enjoyed then his son Solomon, who is known as one of the wisest kings and wisest men to ever live. And one of the richest, uh, he also had multiple wives and he also had many, many concubines prostitutes. You can go in the Bible and literally read this stuff. Yeah. And my question is, these people are, they're hailed as biblical heroes. And my, my little question is, well, if it was okay for them back in that day and age when it was written, why is it suddenly wrong for us? Yeah. Like those, like those two guys, and I'm not trying to justify or make things right, I'm just analyzing it going

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Same here.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
They were just two guys. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there were just two people like you and I, June mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and like all of you listening, there were just two people. They just lived, uh, you know, several centuries ago. Yeah. And so what does that make it? My question is what does it justify it now? Because, well, that was a different culture and it's like they were human and, and on top of that, let me ask you this. Um, if we have these desires as human beings to be with multiple people sexually, um, a lot of people say, Well, we don't all have that. Well, if you're not very exploratory, I think that's true. Um, I think we probably, if you're a man, you may, most men probably at some point have had a threesome fantasy, maybe two women. I know women have their fantasies of their own. Uh, you look at books and TV and how much of the categories that fucking sell out. You can't tell me people aren't into kinky shit.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
50 shades gray. Oh, the religious world slammed it. Other people slammed it. At the time it came out it was like one of the best selling books in the world and the movies did even better. It the same. Oh

Speaker 2 (12:29):
My gosh. Yeah. And it's like,

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Wow, nobody's into this. What a horrible thing. And then we all go by the fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
<laugh>. Well, not only that, but I remember, I remember telling John, I'm gonna watch these because I wanna have my own opinion about it. Yeah. And that was when we were still go, we were still going to church and

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Pre vanilla.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah. Like, and I remember telling him like, I wanna watch 'em so that I can have my own personal opinion without the church trying to trickle in and, and, and tell

Speaker 1 (12:58):
You what and tell you what you're supposed to think of

Speaker 2 (12:59):
It. Oh, yeah. Because they're all like, it's porn. You're watching porn in a movie theater,

Speaker 1 (13:05):
<laugh>. It's like, well maybe you'd still be married if you weren't so boring

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Sexually <laugh>.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
And um, Yeah. Maybe you should've watched some of that shit. Maybe it would've been more exciting and your wife wouldn't have left you. I don't know. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or your husband who knows

Speaker 2 (13:18):
<laugh>.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
But yeah, like people say they're against things, but then they, they close the door and they go do the thing. Like, that's, that's kind of human nature. It's like we've been, we've been, it's almost seems like we've been taught to divorce ourselves Yeah. By culture, religion. Um, and it's like, you know, religion has like centuries of practice of mind control and telling people what they should or shouldn't do and making, making them afraid to go against the agenda mm-hmm. <affirmative> of the religion. And I mean, I mean, I'm just, when I look at it, it's just like, look, I'm not obviously God or an authority, but as best as I can understand, I think you just have to come to your own conclusion about what's acceptable for the two of you. Yeah. If you're a couple mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that not everything's sexual is wrong as is so often and constantly hammered into us from the day we're born. Yeah. And it's kind of like, if, if everything is wrong, like I said, nothing is wrong. Like, I mean, if everything is wrong, eventually you get to a point where you just gotta throw your hands up and go, Oh, what the fuck are we even doing? Yeah. You know, like, how, like how is all this wrong? Oh, by the way, it feels good. So it's wrong. I mean, it doesn't mean everything that feels good isn't bad, but it doesn't mean it is. And

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Like, I, I mean, I remember I got so pissed because I was like, I'd had my first kiss with a girl and we're still new. We're like, this is like our, I think three months in. And I remember looking at John and I, I was so mad. I said, I had no conviction. Like I had no conviction or felt bad at all for that kiss. Like none.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah. And you were mad because you were always taught if you do that, there's gonna be this horrible, awful feeling come over you and you're this and you're that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you were just like, Wow, that was actually pretty nice period. There was nothing more to it.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah. Now there's other things I've tried and that's kind of where the word will trickle in, you know, with doing the double dildo with girls, things like that, that I've kind of had to work through of like, Hey, it's okay. You know, But with the, but that was just one example of, of like how that was so wrong of how I grew up. Oh. That you can't do that. But I, I did the kiss and I had no conviction. I didn't feel bad about it at all.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, ne we were there together. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> both in agreement and you were enjoying it and it was hot. Yeah. I mean, that's our, that's our sex life together. Like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's not anyone's business. Nope. And here's the thing too, like, we didn't make ourselves this way. We didn't give ourselves, like, people don't choose what their sexual desires are, their kinks, whatever. Like we're built in, I even remember hearing preached the whole, my whole life growing up about the difference between love and lust and the love is good, lust is bad. And I'm at the point in life where I'm like, you know, if we didn't have lust, we wouldn't exist. Yeah. Like lust is not always a bad thing. Like if nobody wanted to fuck each other, nobody would exist. Yeah. You can care about someone and not wanna fuck 'em. Yeah. Well, you might not wanna have that if you're trying to, you know, perpetuate, you know, an entire species.

(16:28):
You want them to be lutful for each other. And now obviously that can go good or bad sideways if, if people are not in agreement or you use it wrong or whatever. But like, here's another thing too, again, going back to we didn't make ourselves this way. You did not make yourself with the sexual desires you have. Yeah. Like you were built the way you are and people have a wide variety of very different things sexually. I mean, people are into all kinds of stuff. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's fine. It can all be different. But if anyone's on the hook for our sexual desires, I would say it's the God who made us this way. Yeah. With these specific sexual desires. Like, and I, I often use this example, you know, if, if there's a, let's say you got a Ford Mustang in the driveway sports car, and that thing starts malfunctioning.

(17:18):
It gets recalled, there's something wrong and it now you could say, parallel this to human beings and religion. They say, Oh, there's something wrong in you. You're sinful. Okay. So, you know, church religion has this idea that we're born guilty of sin. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like you're just, you're guilty because you exist. Like, period. Like you didn't have a prayer. Well, think about the car. If a car was built in such a way where eventually it broke down or had an issue and got recalled, is that the car's fault? The car? I mean, because the car didn't create itself.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
No.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
That would be the manufacturer's fault. Yeah. That would be a manufacturer's defect that would, that would be on the creator of the object that being a car, or in this case us as human beings. I mean, if we're wrong for having the sexual desires we do and wanting to enjoy them, that just kind of, to me sounds like a God who doesn't wanna take responsibility for his own fuckup. Yeah. If it even is a fuckup mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we've just been taught that it is, and that for some reason it's always on us. Yeah. But we didn't make us, the sports car didn't make itself mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So if there's a fuckup in the thing, you know, a recall, uh, now manufacturers, you know, defect in the car or something sinful in human beings, natural desires, like I don't, I've, I've never been able to reconcile how that could be our fault for being how we're created. Yeah. Now that doesn't mean you don't misuse it or abuse it, or we don't have free will and that's a free will is a whole different topic.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
<laugh>. Uh, but that's what I've never understood.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's a good point

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Though. If the car isn't on the hook and, you know, Ford Motor Company would be, Well, why would we be on the hook for a God who made us the way we are? And by the way, things in nature are like what they come from. They're like the place they originated if we came from God, whatever you see, that is however you understand that if we came from quote unquote God and we have evil in us, I don't understand how God himself, who we came from, could not also have evil in him from which our own evil came. Which came from him. Because if he's perfect, love how, you know, how could, how could he create something with evil if it's perfect love? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that, again, I'm getting kind of in the weeds there, but if we're wrong for having these desires, he put 'em here.

(19:45):
Yeah. If he didn't want us having sex with each other, I don't understand why he would create sexual beings who wanna have sex with each other. Yeah. And why they would be wrong for doing what they were created to do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not that doing it with everybody every way, anytime consensual, not consensual. Of course there's things that can, we can mess up as humans and do wrong. Yeah. There's consequences in many ways for them, of course. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I'm just saying if we are this way and we didn't make ourselves, I just don't understand why we would be guilty for being what we

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Are. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Just,

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Good point. I just, I don't, I mean, I, I, I want to understand, but that's just something I've never been able to understand when it comes to religion in church.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
So next question. Boy, that was a long one.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
<laugh>

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Number two, wanna read that?

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yep. Says, do either of you see a point in your future where you might stop swinging? Why do you think that might or might not happen?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay. So do you see us stopping?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I don't see us stopping, but there has been times when we've had really bad fights that I'm like, Should we have even done this?

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah. Just working through issues or whatever

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think, yeah, I think that's, I think that's normal to probably question that if you're like having a fight about something. Like we've had a few here and there, just <laugh> and mainly it's me getting mentally, getting unfucking, all the mentally trashed religion that's been in my head. Um, so I don't know. I guess, I don't know. Like I, I love the swinging lifestyle, but I think, I think if it started to, I don't know if it continued to, like, if it, if it affected us so badly, then yeah. Then yeah,

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Probably like if it started destroying our family or relationships in some way, then, you know, we would obviously go, well, way before that we'd hit the breaks. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm with June, like I enjoy it. Like we, we enjoy, uh, experiencing it together. And so, um, I don't see us stopping mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, depending on where we live now, we're in the future. You know, how many people are around. It depends. Um, but yeah, we enjoy it. Number three,

Speaker 2 (22:14):
My next question is purely a personal question that I have for you. How old are your kids? And are you worried that they might one day find this podcast?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
That's a very good, uh, question.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
<laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Uh, are kids are more or less teenagers mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And here's the difference. Um, but I'm, I'm not really worried about it. And I'll tell you why not

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Neither. Like

Speaker 1 (22:38):
We talked to our kids about sex. Yeah. Which our parents did not. And mo most people in our religious upbringing, from our understanding, their parents didn't either. Yeah. So neither of our families ever talked to us about sex growing up. And it was, again, it was just that everything is wrong. Yeah. So they'd never, they'd never have the right or to have the audacity to try to judge us for exploring sex and figuring out, figuring it out all on our own. Um, if they did find out about us, whether that be our, our family or someone else, because again, our family didn't even talk to us. So who the fuck are they? Yeah. <laugh>, you know, to say, Oh, well I can't believe you're into that kind of thing. Like, Yeah, well, where were you again? Where were you when I was 12 or 13? And like, you, you just never talked to me about it and just, you know, and now you're mad because we, we explored it and we found we liked this a certain way. Like you never guided us to begin with. But now this isn't about parents though. Again, getting, I was on a tangent. This is about kids.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I, I would say I'm not worried about it because I don't wear what I'm gonna wear to the club. I don't wear that out. Um, I, you know, we just tell our kids that we're going out on a date and they don't really ask any questions. Um, and because they're teenagers, they're on their, their fucking phone the whole time that we're gone. So, And then, so it's, it's not all the time. No. But on, you know, on the weekends we let them, it's the only time we let 'em

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Have the phone. Well, here here's the question though. Like, what, what if your kids found out? Like, and for, for me it's kind of like, it would be like it is what it is. Yeah. Because we talk to them about sex, We teach them like, Hey, not everyone likes the same things you do and not everyone, not everyone's the same way you are, but even if you disagree with how someone is sexually, it's still our job to be loving and kind to those people and to, and to befriend them if we can. Even if we're different. And even if we don't agree with what they're doing, uh, or you know, sexually how they

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Are. I mean, we even brought that up last night in the movie we were watching, we were watching the Wedding Singer and Oh yeah. There's the guy who,

Speaker 1 (24:40):
The guy on stage, he, Yeah, he looks like a lady. He's got the long hair and Yeah. He gets booed off

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Stage and our kids are like, he

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Only knows, he only knew one song. And so he, Adam Sandler like, was

(24:51):
<laugh>, Adam Sandler went outside cuz he was helping this, you know, 12 year old kid, you know, puke in the dumpster cuz he, someone gave him alcohol. And so the guy, Yeah. He didn't have any other song he knew so he started singing it again. But he looks kind of like a boy George kind of like, you can tell it's a do, but he is dressed up like a chick. Yeah. So, you know, our kids were both like, Is that a guy? And it's like, yeah. I said, But you know, if you ever see someone like that, you can still be nice and be their friend. You know, you don't have to like, be like them if that's not your thing.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah. So we're, we're always trying to find ways to encourage them with things like that. Um, and so, yeah. So I think I, I I think Would there be an initial shock? Well, hell yeah. There would be an initial shock to it, but I don't, I don't, I'm not worried about it because, because we do talk to them consistently about things that it, I don't think it would be, it would, they'd be shocked probably, but it would be no big deal.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Every two or three years since they were probably six or seven years old, we've had, we've had conversations with them about sex mm-hmm. <affirmative> that are appropriate for the age range they were at. And so sex is no new concept to them. Yeah. Uh, we want it to be as normal of a topic in our house where it's no big deal because a lot of times, you know, it's kinda like guns or any other taboo thing for some people. No one talks about it. No one trains, you know, like with guns, you don't train your kid on gun safety. You know, that's where you're likely to have an accident Uhhuh <affirmative> with, with a gun. Cuz a kid was so curious and you never taught the kid how to handle it. Yeah. Well, with sex, you know, kids, you know, kids are eventually gonna grow into teenagers and adults and you know, they're gonna, they're gonna develop and have their own things.

(26:35):
They like, Well we might as well let them know that hey, it's okay to be what you are. And some people are into different things and so if they ever did find this podcast, I'd just kind of be like, Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah. Everyone's into different things and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean we're helping them understand sex and its entirety and shape their worldview on it. And for the most part, I agree that in a lot of ways the worldview we were raised with is a good one in general. Very. There's a lot of benefits to that. There are, But the thing is, it, it's so exclusive that it, it cuts out and ignores other sides to us that we have sexually as human beings. Yeah. And it won't go there and address it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It'll just vilify it. But that doesn't take away the desires we have. It doesn't do it doesn't help. It just goes, You're not welcome here. You better not fucking say any of that. Oh yeah. Because you can't talk to us. Yeah. So you go somewhere else instead of a church. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or church friends and you know, that's where you have I think places like the swinger lifestyle that originated somehow. Uh, because people are finding that they didn't feel like they fit where they were and there were other people just like them. And now it kind of is what it is, you know? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
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Speaker 2 (29:05):
Hello first, thank you for all the information. It's so helpful. Love, love, love love, love the podcast. You're both awesome. Well thank you. I have a question. My husband and I have just started dipping our toes into the lifestyle. This was at my request. I'm the one with the higher sex drive and am the jump in head first type where he's more reserved.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Oh man. I love a woman with a good, strong sex drive. Cause I'm the strong drive in our relationship

Speaker 2 (29:34):
<laugh>. Um, so far we've been to one swinger's club and we both had so much fun. We can only go when we travel because our state doesn't have any clubs and is controlled. Um,

Speaker 1 (29:50):
By the church,

Speaker 2 (29:51):
By the church through

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Utah.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Um, anyway, when we went to the Swinger's club in Vegas, we didn't play with anyone else. We just played with each other and let some people watch, which we both seem to like. My question is, is it possible to play with women only at least at first until my husband is more comfortable?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Okay, number one. Yes. That's totally yes possible. You just need to find like, um, just a lady who wants to play with a couple and they're out there.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
You have to look, but they're out there.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, in here, here's the next sentence. <laugh>, everything I read says the quote unquote unicorn is a very rare occurrence that everyone in the lifestyle is looking for.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yes, indeed. A very rare and beautiful creature of great desire. And uh, yeah. That's that's pretty much true. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
We are okay playing with other married people, but my husband is as straight as they come and really doesn't want other men joining at all. He's fine with them watching, but he doesn't want them touching anything or anyone he's playing with. So is it responsible for us to expect that we can find women that are willing to play without their husband being involved at all and being okay with us not playing with him at all?

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Okay, well here's what you need. You need either a unicorn or a hot wife scenario. Yeah. Because the unicorn thing, there is no other guy. It's just a lady, another lady, the hot wife thing is generally a guy who likes to watch his wife, uh, have sex with other people. He doesn't wanna participate, he just likes to watch cuz that's his thing. So the hot wife scenario or the unicorn thing would be your answer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, you know, we've been, I don't really understand, uh, a little bit about what you just said as far as he's concerned. And again, we're all different people, we're all at different, you know, places of comfort level. But you said that he wouldn't, basically, from my understanding from the email is that her, her husband wouldn't even want another guy playing with the same woman he is, whether it's his wife or not.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's, Yeah, that's the next sentence. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Oh, is that Uhhuh?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Did you read

Speaker 1 (32:03):
That yet? No. Okay. It must have been. Okay. Well go ahead and read that first cuz I've read the email already.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah. Um, it just says, at this point I don't think my husband even, uh, would be willing to let me play with another woman if her husband was involved at all, even if he was only touching his own wife. Hopefully that made sense. I'm just trying to figure out if we are looking in the right place to fulfill our fantasies and desires. Thank you very much for any, um, help for advice.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Okay. Yeah. First of all, whatever you're into, whatever your boundaries are, it's, it's okay to have that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So for the husband and for the wife here, it's okay to be where you're at. Yeah. Um, what I was about to say was just me personally, like, I guess I don't understand his position entirely from my position in Headspace. Uh, because, um, we actually recently were in that exact scenario where we had, uh, we were playing with another couple, it was just the four of us and the lady was going down on you Uhhuh, and the guy even looked at me, you know, so, so you were laying on the bed, the side of the bed, she was kneeling down on the side of the bed, going down on you. And um, actually she was standing up. She was like bent over going down on you.

(33:19):
And I remember her, her guy looked at me and said, Hey, do you mind if I, if I play with, with my own wife? You know, in other words, you know, he was doing your doggy style. Yeah. Um, and I, I kind of laughed. I go, Dude, she's your lady. Like, I'm like, You can do what you want with, you'd have to ask me. Yeah. You know, but he was being very respectful, which I like. Yeah. Um, cuz I'm the same way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but to me it was almost funny, like, you're asking me if you can do stuff with your wife, but I understand because I mean like, this is a perfect example. Yeah. It didn't bother me. Yeah. However, if, if this husband would've been there, clearly it would've bothered him. Uhhuh <affirmative>. Now, now I'll tell you from my experience, I was laying there next to Jim just kind of playing with her boobs and whatever kissing her while the other lady's going down on her.

(34:06):
And you know, the other guy was just doing his lady doggy style while she was, you know, going down on June. That didn't bother me. Um, I mean, I think the big fear for a lot of us guys is like, we don't wanna know the guy touching our lady. Yeah. Like some of us are just like other guys, they're like, you know, they love to see it. I'm not that guy. Yeah. Like, I really don't get anything out of the idea of any other guy doing anything with you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, um, in that case, in this particular case, he wasn't touching you at all. He was, he only had his hands on and everything else on his own lady. Uh, she just happened to be going down on you. Yeah. So that didn't bother me because, you know, he wasn't touching you and you generally don't like other guys touching you.

(34:54):
And so my only thing is like that some guy isn't doing something that we're not okay with. Yeah. But, but if, I mean, again, it's just a personal preference. Um, I, I didn't have any issue with the guy, you know, doing his wife dog used to just because her mouth was going down on June. Um, I didn't see that as him going in on my wife or doing anything because he wasn't. Uh, that's just my perspective. But you know, the thing is too, in the lifestyle, you try things out, you get around it and, and we find that a lot of this evolves. Yes. You know, and like right now you might not be okay with that and you by the way, you never have to be okay with that. There's no, there's no end goal. You don't have to get somewhere. But you might, you might might realize that things that bother you right now in two or three months or however long, uh, they just maybe won't bother. You'd be that big of a deal anymore. And so be open to that as well.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
So was that the last one? I think we had another one lifestyle question. I'll let you read since I'm doing a lot of talking too. <laugh>. Right there. Go for

Speaker 2 (35:58):
It. Okay. Um, I appreciate you taking the time to Oh my gosh. I just, I just heard myself <laugh> my accent time <laugh>. I appreciate you taking the time to teach and inform us of the lifestyle. I have recently came across your podcast and have been very in interested in the lifestyle. I have approached my wife about my interest in investigating this further. To my surprise, she was not against it and was willing to check it out.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
G

Speaker 2 (36:29):
<laugh> some background before my question. We are in our early forties and have been married for almost 20 years and have children.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
So pretty much the same life scenario as as us

Speaker 2 (36:42):
As we're in or

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Less, more or less. We're a little younger

Speaker 2 (36:45):
I would say. We don't have any big issues in our life. Just normal things that come up. We have a very healthy sex life with our careers. I am able to listen and try to learn more. And then talking about it, she has said that she would like to go watch people having sex and see what that would be like first. Um, then maybe sometime, uh, be up for trying to have sex with another female eventually, then possibly a threesome. I honestly think she is just as curious as I am, but don't, I don't really know what steps to take. We have been able to, we have been to strip club clubs before and watch porn together, so trying something else. So they're trying something else. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, what would you recommend? I'm not sure it if the clubs will let you watch or if you would have to go to the hotel takeovers. We are not real young anymore, so kind of outta the loop you could say again. Thanks for your advice.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah. First thing, um, at least the clubs we go to, uh, they let you watch how one of the best rooms in there. Oh yeah. It has these big picture windows and this giant round bed mm-hmm. <affirmative> you can fit 40 or 50 people in the hallway around those big picture windows to watch.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Oh yeah. And

Speaker 1 (38:06):
There's windows and there's, there's windows in most of the rooms. Um, you can close curtains if you want the privacy or doors, but, uh, clubs, we haven't been to a ton of them, but the one we go to, uh, yeah, it's definitely you can watch. Yeah. And so if you're into that, like, I mean a a club is probably definitely the place and the, the great thing is a lot of people, including June, are exhibitionist. Yes. They get off knowing that people are watching them fuck and do all kinds of stuff. Like that's their kink mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so my advice to you would be with everything, keep doing what you're doing. Uh, and what I mean by that is keep taking small little baby steps together at your own pace. Don't do anything you're not both comfortable with. There is no finish line. You have to like ultimately try all these things and get to this finish line and have done it all.

(38:54):
This whole thing for us at least is just whatever it is we feel like doing. If we have an interest, then maybe let's explore that. And if we don't, let's not. Yeah. Um, there's no pressure to do anything we, we don't want to do. Yeah. But from the beginning we said let's just take baby steps. Absolutely. And at our own pace where we're both comfortable and we haven't really had a problem as far as that's concerned. Yeah. And if you get to the point where you wanna do a female, male, female threesome, you're both comfortable with that. You found someone that's you, you click and connect with Well and you're attracted to and it's mutual. Um, why not? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
I mean why not

Speaker 1 (39:32):
<laugh>? You know, maybe you're not there yet, maybe you are, but Yeah, I would just say

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Just maybe even starting out kind of like we did mm-hmm. <affirmative> where, you know, I kissed the girl and then John kissed that same girl and then the next week we, you know, parallel played. So you kind of gradually work in your way towards that. So we parallel play and parallel play is basically you're fucking your own person, but you're right beside another couple who's also fucking their own person. So I would say that could even be just gradually doing things like that. Maybe that would help you towards working towards the threesome or the female male female.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, we didn't jump right into certain things. I mean, once we did one or two things, uh, and a few of those first, you know, first three or four nights at the club, we sort of, uh, slid into some things we didn't expect but we rolled with it and we were both okay. Yeah. With it. Um, but yeah, just, just do what you're comfortable with and you can baby step into things, dip your toeing at your own pace. Absolutely. We got another one here. Uh, another Go ahead and read that one real quick. I think this is the one of the last ones. Go ahead and read

Speaker 2 (40:46):
That one. Yeah, it says, Thanks so much, I'm glad I found your podcast. I listened to the Don't Be a Weird Guy episode just before we went to Temptations for the first time and it shed tons of light on how we saw people and couples interact with my wife and I. Mm. You mentioned the porn star tips for eating pussy. I'd love to get that info. Is there anywhere anyway to get connected with him or share what you've learned? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
So first of all, um, that episode he's referring to about guys how not to be a fucking weirdo. Yeah. I think that was like episode two or three just goes, just scroll down. Everything's a numerical order in the podcast. It's literally the one that says, Guys, don't be a fucking weirdo. Yeah. Um, it was about guys just, you know, not being able to handle being told no by ladies and acting like assholes or trying to touch people. Like it's all about that. Uh, basically things women hate and no guy wants to see another guy trying to do cuz he's just a little bitch. You can't handle rejection <laugh>, uh, or, or just can't be nice to a lady who's just not interested for one of maybe a thousand reasons. It might not even be him. Uh, it might be something she's going through, who knows.

(41:56):
Yeah. But that's what that's about. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So go check that out. Um, they said they went to Temptations, which is a, a swinger lifestyle resort down somewhere in Mexico. We haven't been to one of these yet, but we'd like to go to one. Yeah. And all these things I was apparently saying that we were saying in the whole thing to guys and how not to be a fucking weirdo, he said it shed tons of light on how they saw people and couples interacting with him and his wife. Wow. Interesting. So people do need to hear that. Wow. I mean, I, I know it through our experience, but apparently there's a lot of people who just think, Hey, it's a swinging resort. We can just like touch and finger and grope anybody. It's like, man, no, you can't, you don't just walk through fucking the grocery store.

(42:41):
And while we sold those people making out at the end of aisle three, why couldn't I grab your tits? You know, it's like Yeah. In what world is it okay to just do something without someone's permission? Never. Yeah. Anyway, he said, you mentioned the porn star tips for eating pussy. Yeah. The guy's name who's a porn star, uh, that I learned that from, uh, his name is Eric Everhard. Eric Everhard, uh, he's got a YouTube channel and he's got online chorus. He's got coaching. I've done some of that. Um, and the, the eating pussy thing, like he explains it better than I can. Um, but it's his thing. It's called the cross T technique. The Cross T technique. So if you google Eric Everhard cross T technique, I think it's also like in his free chapter download of his book, um, on one of those eight or nine pages, there's a section that says the Cross T technique and there's like a paragraph Okay.

(43:39):
That says how to do it mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's not, it's not that hard, but he talks about how to do it and he also talks about different cues of body language to look for things like that, to know if you're on the right path, you know, if you're doing it right. So I would just go, um, find either just Google it or, um, just find that that PDF download copy, uh, which is, I think it's like a free giveaway on his website, but it's called the Cross T Technique. His name is Eric Everhard. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, he was in the, you know, Thank you Eric <laugh>. Yeah. Shit, we, we were married over 16 years before I ever got that. Right. I know I've talked about it before, but for so long I, I just didn't know how to get you there that way. And like, we actually believed you couldn't get there. Yeah. That way. Yeah. And then he's, you know, we bought online courses and paid $150 for some of 'em. And you know what? He was just like, Nah man, just do this thing, this thing and this thing 1, 2, 3 and then don't stop, you know, until she gets there on the third thing. I'm like, Okay, that's easy. And the first time we did it, like I got you there in like seven minutes. Yes. Which was fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Um, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
<laugh>. Yeah. So what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I saw your dick on meat grazing.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh. So you got this crazy sadistic sexual look in your eyes meat grazing. Oh, what, what

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Are you doing? Oh wow. That feels amazing. Damn girl. Well, Sunday School didn't work for you, <laugh>.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I mean, they didn't Yeah. Yeah. All that sex, those biblical heroes were having <laugh>. Yeah. They didn't teach us any of that. We had to go find it on our own. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, here's, uh, one more email that looks here. I'm not sure what the question is, but,

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Uh, let's see. Um, I've been listening to your podcast and you got, and you guys are amazing with all the information you provide to newbies. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My wife and I are in the talking phases of the lifestyle and as of now, he only wants to play,

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Uh, I think it's supposed to be, she only wants to play

Speaker 2 (45:44):
With women. She only wants to play with women together. The only thing that is burning inside of me is the thought of her being with another man. She sounds a lot like June in the sense that she's not interested in men right now, which is great. But again, the burning question is how do you, how do I work around this issue? I have.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Okay, well first of all, that's normal. Um, a lot of guys, including me, don't get anything out of the thought. Oh, their lady being with no other guy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, some guys love it. Some guys it's their turn on. It's not mine. Um, I'm, I'm more against it. But if she really, really, really wanted it, I recognize her as an individual with desires and I respect her enough to let her try what she wants. But, um, I don't get anything out of the thought of that. Yeah. Uh, and so I think I'm kind of in the same boat you are except I'm, I'm maybe a little more open just in the sense that, you know, I've had to work and kind of grow the point where, hey, I'm my own person. If I, if I desire something, I would want her to support me. And so it's kind of the vice versa. Yeah. Kinda the mutual thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, but that's totally normal. Like, you're not wrong for feeling that way. Yeah. Um, so, um, I don't know if you need to work around it and at the same time you, it looks like you just said that your wife is a lot like June in the sense that she's not interested in other men right now. So really this is, if that's true, this is not a problem for

Speaker 2 (47:07):
You. Right. No. Doesn't sound like good. Um,

Speaker 1 (47:09):
It sounds like she's interested in exploring ladies just like June. Um, so right now that's not a problem. Now if she gets to the point where she does want to explore with other guys in any way, uh, well obviously she probably knows this is an issue for you and that that's something that you two would have to work through. Yeah. And understand. Um, and, and figure out. I don't know if there's any one size fits all solution to that or if he would ever even work for some people that might never work. But one thing I can tell you is there are a lot of people in lifestyle who have faced the same obstacles and challenges that we have and that you are Yeah. What I would do, one of the things we always tell people is go try to find people who have been in the lifestyle a long time.

(47:53):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> who do like everything, they full swap. They do everything and, and try and just talk to 'em. People love giving their advice and their opinions and just ask 'em, Hey, did you, you know, ask the guy, Was there ever a point when like it bothered you at the thought of seeing her with another guy? And if he, if that person was that way, let's say, you know, Oh yeah, I definitely remember that. And you can ask him, Well, how did you work past that? How did you like mm-hmm. <affirmative>? What worked, how, what got you through that? Or how did you, you know, and everyone's probably gonna have a little bit of a different story.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah. And I would also encourage this person to, You sound a lot alike. Um, a lot like me in the way that I can get in my own head sometimes.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Are you talking to the wife or the husband here?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
The guy. Um, to the guy. I'm talking to the guy right now.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Okay. So you're saying like, it sounds like he gets in his head,

Speaker 2 (48:44):
He gets in, it sounds to, sounds to me like he gets in his head like I do sometimes where I overthink everything and, and I'm expecting the worse out of things or things that I I that haven't even come about at all. Kind of like she's wanting to just play with the girls, but you're already in your mind thinking about, I don't want to see that with a guy, with her, with a guy. So it sounds to me like that might be something you need maybe to work through too, cuz you're not alone with that. I still have to work on that myself of just trying to not get in my own head with things and so

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Oh, like with me, with

Speaker 2 (49:19):
The lady. Yeah. Yeah. And so it just, it sounds to me like that might be something that he just kind of has to work through mentally.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah. And here's the thing too. This is, we discovered this. There might be things you don't think you like, and I'm not saying you will like certain things if you try them, but there might be things you like if you try them. You might not think you would be into it or like it, but once you see it or experience it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's not uncommon for you to walk away going, All right, I was kind of against that. I don't know why the fuck I got hard when I saw it. I don't know why the fuck I was just turned on by that. And then you're trying to like figure yourself out because sometimes we're closed off to things. Yeah. But after we try them or see them or experience it, sometimes it's very surprising. Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe, I can't believe that turned me on.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Well, and that's happened to me multiple times. Like yes. One example is like, we call her her Barbie and it was the first time, first night we met them, her in GI Joe. And she spanked me and I was like, I looked at John and I'm like, Holy shit, that was hot.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
She spanked you with a leather paddle as you were grabbing and bending, grabbing the stripper bowl and bending over. Yeah. Yes. And you let her do it for fun. Yes. And then afterwards you were like, Holy shit, that really turned me on. And she was like 10 feet away on the other side of the pole. I'm like, Well, go ask her to do it again.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah. So I did <laugh>, but she, she becomes more dominant when she's playing with a girl. So she was like, Ask me and kiss the paddle. And I was like, Okay.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
And now we have paddles and other shit because like, you like that,

Speaker 2 (50:52):
But I like it. And I didn't know I did until I tried.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah. And you were just goofing around. Oh, I let 'em know that girl, you know, paddle me. And then you're like, Whoa. Yeah. Skirt town. Like, hey, it's getting wet down there. And so, but that's the way, that's that way with, with anybody. So yeah, I would encourage you to be open-minded. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, but don't do any, don't do anything that you're both not in agreement and comfortable with.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
You know, doing something for five or 10 minutes or however long to try it out is not worth ruining your fucking relationship or, or damaging it. No, I mean, if you're not both into it now here, here's where you gotta draw a line. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you have to come to some conclusion. If your wife is having all the fun and you're okay with that, but she is not okay with you having your kinds of fun, that that will be a big fucking problem. Yeah. Cause that's one of the biggest problems me and June have faced. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and it wasn't that she was trying to be malicious or hypocritical. She just, I think has had more issues to work through than me when it comes to sex

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Mentally. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
You know, And so, but if, if, if the, if your lady's getting to have a bunch of fun, but it becomes an issue when you try to have your fun. Well that's, that's really not fair to anybody. And then, and it might not be that she's malicious, maybe she is, but maybe she isn't. And sometimes it's just working through those things and recognizing, because there were times when June didn't even realize like she was doing those certain things or being that way and didn't understand why until we talked it out. Yeah. And you know, sometimes it still creeps up and pops up mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we have to address it. Yeah. And sometimes we still argue like we had an argument last night. Yeah. And, you know, but we're better this morning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we've had time to sleep on it. Um,

Speaker 2 (52:35):
And we talk it out. Like I don't, for me it's like I don't wanna talk to John when we're in the heat of the argument. So a lot of times I don't say a lot when we're in the heat of the argument because I, I wanna be able to sleep on it and think on it and or the lack of sleep, which is usually the case for me. <laugh>. But that's okay. Cuz it gives me the time that I need to think about things. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
You get a better perspective when you get time to think on things and sleep on them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that Yeah. That's actually another good religious point. You know, there, there is this really common, I wouldn't quote it here, but, but it is kind of relevant to this exact discussion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's, you know, there's a, a, in the, in the Christian religion, there's a bible verse that says, Don't let the sun go down on your anger. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And basically what that is commonly preached as is if you have an argument with your spouse, don't go to bed angry. Well, here's the thing. You, it might be 9 30, 10 30, 11 at night and there's no time to get closure with this. People need time to think and talk. They need to sleep on things because we obviously have a more clear head the next day. Uh, once we're not in the heat of the moment, we've been able to sleep on it. We all know that works. And so, like that's another thing that, like we've looked at with religion and said, Hey, you know what? That's not bad advice, but it's not the whole story. Yeah. Because not doing that, you know, going, you know, don't let the sun go down in your anger. Don't go go to bed angry. That's not the best advice for a lot of people. Not for me. Because of how they're psychologically wired. That's not a one size fits all kind of thing. No, but nobody ever teaches you

Speaker 2 (54:08):
That. No.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
And so some people just go to bed with resentment saying, Okay, fine, we're good. And then they just hate each other. Yeah. And they're laying there and they hate each other. It's like nothing is, nothing has closure. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if anything, you're further from it because you're trying to pressure yourselves and is squishing this down and being done with it because you've been taught that you're not supposed to go to sleep if you're mad at your spouse. Yeah. But you know what? Yeah. We did sleep in separate beds last night. Yeah. And you know, now we're sitting here naked playing with each other, doing the podcast again. And we went for our morning walk and had coffee mm-hmm. <affirmative> and like, we're fine now, but like, we did need time to sleep on that.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
And that's me. Like, I'm the, I'm the one that's like, I'm not, I don't wanna say anything until I've had time to sleep on it. So a lot of times he'll do a lot of the talking and I'm just like not saying anything. Not that I don't wanna say anything. It's the fact that for me mentally, like I have to think things through and then I can talk to you the next day.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah. It has more to do with how you're mentally wired. You know, certain people, we're all wired a little bit differently. Yeah. Rather than what's right or wrong and the best thing e everyone needs to do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So look, these have been, uh, some of the questions that you all sent in and, uh, we always love getting your questions and being able to answer them to the best of our ability. Yeah. We hope, um, they were helpful and mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that you felt respected and understood. We believe it's okay to be who you are. Yeah. And, um, yeah, go make sure you click on the show notes and check out those vodka help shirts, <laugh> and, uh, the swag. It's, it's pretty cool. And again, be sure, scroll down, leave us five stars. If you think this is a five star podcast, it takes two seconds to scroll down and click it, Leave review, and just telling the world what was helpful. Take 10 seconds and tell the world what was helpful. Yeah. If something here was helpful for

Speaker 2 (55:52):
You. Definitely. Thank you.