Access For All: Supporting The Well-Being of Individuals Within The Deaf and Hard of Hearing Communities in Los Angeles County

In this episode, we’re joined by Héctor Ramirez and Arash Behtash  as we discuss supporting the well-being of individuals within the Deaf and hard of hearing communities in Los Angeles County. 

The Access For All Podcast Series aims to explore a variety of topics related to the intersection of Deaf, Hard of Hearing, Blind, Partially sighted, visually impaired and physically disabled individuals lives as it relates to mental health, well-being and the accessing of mental health services.

The Access For All podcast series is meant to create awareness, reduce stigma, educate and create opportunity for discussion around issues related to the intersection of physical disability and mental health. Through sharing personal stories, challenges, and strengths we will discover how a physical disability can affect our mental health and how the state of our mental health can affect our physical body. We will also explore societal stigma around disability that can affect our mental health and ways that we can overcome them or advocate to change legislation and collective perceptions.

This project has been developed by the private, non-profit organization, Cross Cultural Expressions, in partnership with the Access For All, Underserved Cultural Communities sub-committee of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health. For more information on this project or to learn about Cross Cultural Expressions, please visit our website at crossculturalexpressions.org. To receive referrals or resources to mental health services, please call the LACDMH Access Help-line at 1-800-854-7771.

Transcript

START OF TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Madison

Hi everyone. My name is Madison Buteyn and I would like to welcome you to the sixth of a series of six podcasts created by Cross Cultural Expressions in partnership with the Access for All Underserved Cultural Communities Subcommittee of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health. During this series, we will be exploring a variety of topics related to the intersection of the deaf hard of hearing, blind, partially sighted, visually impaired and physically disabled individuals lives as it relates to mental health, wellbeing and the accessing of mental health services. This is an opportunity for members of these communities to sit together and discuss concerns, share resources, and give insight as to the work that can be done to keep individuals and communities uplifted and living their best lives. Before I introduce our wonderful guest, I wanted to make sure to share with everyone the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health's Access Helpline number for Mental Health Services and Support. Please call the 24 over seven helpline at 1-800-854-7771. And this episode we are joined by Kelsey Ledesma, Alex Elliot, Manu McLean, as well as Mastaneh Moghadam, licensed clinical social worker and executive director of Cross Cultural Expressions. The opinions and views expressed by the hosts and guests of the Access for All podcast do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health as a whole. The content is shared for informational purposes only and should not be taken as medical advice, and listeners should consult a health care professional with any medical questions and issues they have. 24 over seven Mental health support is available through Lakme's Helpline at (800) 854-7771 or by calling or texting 988. Hi everyone. Welcome back to this podcast series. We are joined by Hector and Arash again for our second installment for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing Communities. For any new listeners, we would love to have you both introduce yourselves and speak about your connection just to this topic.

[00:02:03] Arash

Hi everyone. My name is Arash Behtash and I was born hard of hearing and I'm so happy to be part of this meeting to share my stories with you all. And it really helps to understand what you can provide mental health services to us and what our responsibilities are. So it's very good to be here.

[00:02:36] Hector

Thank you. Thank you. My name is Hector Ramirez. Hello, everybody. Yeah, I am a Chicago passion Mexican and I'm autistic and have a mental health disability. And I'm also hard of hearing. I have a complex hearing loss, so I wear both hearing aids and I'm a primary stakeholder of Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health. And I also serve on the I'm a commissioner for the California Commission on Disability and Access. I'm really, really thankful to be able to share space with all of you today.

[00:03:11] Madison

Thank you.

[00:03:12] Mastaneh

I'll just introduce myself. Hi everyone. I'm Mastaneh Moghadam. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and executive director at Cross- Cultural Expressions and so honored to be here today to get this opportunity to sit with Hector and Arash and have these conversations.

[00:03:30] Madison

Amazing. Thank you. Yes. Today we wanted to kind of dive into more of supporting the well-being of individuals within the deaf and hard of hearing communities. And we spoke about this a little bit in our last podcast. But I think we wanted to jump in and sort of talk about self support and what has been sort of your most effective tools with employing self support along your journey journey.

[00:03:58] Hector

Community? I think it's weird. We never I've never thought of community as being medicine. And I think like I remember I've had instances in my life where I had had to be, you know, hospitalized and I've been in hospital settings. And I think the thing that helped me the most in those places were like the other people that were there getting treatment, you know, because it felt well, first of all, it felt good to be around folks that had similar experiences that I was having in life experience, lived experiences. And I think similarly within the deaf and hard of hearing community, finding community, because it is about finding community, we sometimes we have to look for each other, like when find somebody that has similar hearing aids to me, I get like super excited. I feel like I've I've met like a cousin or a or a twin. But then also similarly, you know, meaning other people in the community and learning from their experiences, their coping skills, you know, because we all have such different experiences that we all sometimes have a very different coping tools. And so hearing about them or just witnessing how people use them, it's like we learn to survive by our peers. But I think, you know, those are some of the life skills that often-time, you know, we develop in community and we share in community because they are person centered, community driven, and we know that they work for for most of us and in different settings.

[00:05:33] Mastaneh

Going out there and really finding community. Probably one of the most uplifting things anybody can do for themselves. So thank you for that.

[00:05:41] Madison

Before we get to you, Arash, and your thoughts on this, I wanted to ask you, Hector, like when you said it's important to find community, how do you find it?

[00:05:51] Hector

I mean, definitely, like the places where we're trying to get services, you know, because those are definitely with some of the few agencies. Um, you know, sometimes people will connect. So, I mean, like any type of deaf or hard of hearing type of event usually will mean that I will find somebody that I have something in common with this particular aspect of my identity. This this particular disability, you know, really drives a lot of my social identities, whether in the Native American community and the queer community and Latino community, because those barriers exist everywhere. So even finding like intersectional communities in those spaces is like the best medicine, you know, because and I hate the word normalize, but I want to it feels like, for example, in the Department of Mental Health, we have the access for all us. And that is one of the few places where I do not feel disabled, even though we're all disabled. But it just it feels like family. It feels pure. I don't feel like I'm a burden because of my disability. Any other space to be able to find that space like once a month, you know, and even though we have other places. But because this one like touches on so many other parts of my identity is just I don't know, it's like I look forward to even just like listening to the recordings if I miss, you know, and like seeing other people or like hearing about other people, it's so significant. And I think in a broader understanding of the significant health impacts that isolation is having on people. And so I'm I'm glad that that is also being brought up because it is one of the major issues that impacts the disability community, the isolation.

[00:07:40] Arash

It's very interesting. I was born and raised in a different environment. I mean, and I was not looking for a community or some my community was my friends, my sister, my brother, my family, my classmates. So they were all hearing. So I was the only one hard of hearing person in the family and difficult. So I was trying to. Educate myself, I mean, by facing problems I had. So I experienced everything all by myself. I mean, like and I didn't have any access to mental health or any community. And until a few years ago, I was, I went to a Def exhibition dev expo. So I met a lot of deaf and hard of hearing people and I was, oh my God, I'm not alone. So I started coming, communicating with them and having some services like, oh, biking 20 years ago. And I had access to TV curling, but now everything is in app in the phone. So for self support. And it's very interesting. You brought you brought up this topic and I did all this thing by myself. And also, I wanted to let you know, as an immigrant and person, my English is second language, my second language. So I had another problem with this language because, um, I could read but I couldn't speak well and I couldn't read lips or so. The communicating English language was a big issue for me for the first few years. When I'm off to us and now I'm okay.

[00:10:17] Arash

But sometime I do not understand what people say because they speak fast. So I have to ask them, Can you repeat? Or so all this thing I did all by myself. So usually, as I mentioned before, when I travel, I go to the front desk, Hey, I have this issue. I have I’m hearing impaired person. So if anything very important, please let me know. So they so they cooperate very. No problem. But. And. In terms of mental health. And I'm saying that it may take a lot of energy and time. And for instance, if I travel and when I go to the front desk and to let them know about my issue, I have to sit in the front row. So if they if anything comes up, they can raise hand. Hey, Arash, come over here. So I could go walk around inside the airport. But don't do that because I'm afraid if I miss something. So all this feeling may worry me over few years, but it doesn't happen every day. But I learn how to deal with it. So. Sometimes I think that it could be frustrating, but I don't have anyone to yell. And I mean, I don't have anyone else to share my story. So I say, okay, it is what it is. So I move on. But I told you earlier this morphinan may work, but eventually it has some mental health issue, I believe.

[00:12:28] Mastaneh

So I really had a question. You know, you mentioned that you're an immigrant. And Hector, you mentioned that you're from Mexican culture. And I really want to kind of talk to you, both of you, about the cultural stigmas that might be there for deaf and hard of hearing people I know that, you know, working with. People from different cultures. A lot of collectivist cultures, right? A lot of more traditional cultures that there's a tendency that when somebody, especially their child or their family member has a disability, there's a tendency toward secrecy or there's a tendency to kind of almost minimize the disability and kind of push them into like just being normal, whatever normal type of thing. And I'm wondering, what was your experience obviously with that as a child growing up? Like what were the expectations of any And also for you, Hector, you know, you mentioned that your hearing loss came later, but that there were certainly other mental health aspects and the autism that was earlier in your life and how your specific culture, your family in particular, kind of dealt with all of that. So whoever whoever can speak to that first.

[00:13:57] Hector

English is not my first language. Other it's actually my my third language in in our home. Our home language is Spanish and it’s Apache. Um, and I'm also autistic, so I'm not very sociable, but I hear the, the sitting in the front row. I do that all the time. I always sit at the front or by the microphone. Even at meetings. I'm always at the front and I'm not a social person, but I do it out of survival. Um, and it is just so overwhelming and taxing. Like I usually leave a meeting and I'm just drained. I just like, want to like, take a nap for 20 days because I'm just like, it's just wow. It's just so intense. But the linguistic aspect of it and the stigma, it's interesting because in my Mexican side of the family, the disability aspect is very, very mixed as an immigrant is looked on as a somewhat as a deficit lack of awareness. It's not something that we talk about because we already have a bunch of other things to overcome. And I think kind of the reaction from some of my members that I was less capable already had already had that particular stigma because of autism and and my mental health disability. And then this added it just added more of I can do more in my native side of the family. That was totally different because we don't necessarily look at disabilities.

[00:15:21] Hector

They're looked at as as gifts. So rather than looking at it from a deficit point of view, it's more of a strength based. We have in some of my communities a lot of deaf and hard of people hearing people that are born or developed. And so we have that acknowledgement. We have less perhaps understanding of ways to make things accessible, but in a way it gets a little bit more acceptable because it’s part of the community. Um, but I think, you know, there's still that lack sometimes of um, of priority or importance, you know, like we are like sophistic family. So when we get together for, for, for lunch or dinner, I always have to sit in a specific spot where it won't be too noisy. But I can also look at everybody and try to understand because I like to be. My family is very important and I like to feel like part of it. And sometimes that's a big struggle because I feel left out or misunderstood or when we're watching movies or TV, they closed captions. It's like I have I need closed captions. So some people, oh, it gets in the way or like, oh it's very. It's like, I'm sorry, but imagine how hard it is for me to not even know. And so those kind of conversations come up a lot. Um, the restaurants going to restaurants. I love eating.

[00:16:37] Hector

I'm a foodie. I hate going to restaurants because it usually means that I will not be part of any type of conversation because it's so noisy and, you know, and so those sorts of things, you know, sometimes there's like a trade off. You kind of like if you really want a community, you go with the community and you kind of sacrifice really that level of participation and inclusion. Or if you really want the participation, inclusion, you just go with people that are going to make sure that you have what you need to participate and have family members that will will really advocate. And, you know, like I have my sister, I have a sister that she's always like, oh, no, speak louder. Like, oh, she has hearing aids, you know, or like, oh, she just and then I have other family members, you know, they're like, Oh, no, here, I'll do that for him. He can't hear pretty good. And like, I'm right here, you know, next to you, navigating those other identities that don't necessarily have but other people have. But the stigma, you know, it's definitely a it's a I'm 48 years old and sometimes it feels like they're treating me like a four year old. And, oh, it is so frustrating at times. And I'm still working. I'm being humble. I'm just going, oh, it is what it is. I can't do that. I did it for many, many times.

[00:17:55] Hector

Where didn't really care about my knees and just went with it. And I've had consequences for that. So I've had to learn to really, like speak up and say, I don't need this, you know? But it's it's a struggle because culturally we're not supposed to really bring attention to ourselves that way. And so it feels weird to advocate within your family. It feels and I get this a lot. It feels very like a white person. And so sometimes I get that that kind of label, it's like you're acting like a white person because you keep like you're being selfish and like, I'm just trying to, like, you know, advocate for my needs and being cool like that. Especially there's a native term for that, and I won't repeat it, but it's like the most offensive term there is in native community. You call somebody a greedy white person, you know, because you're just talking about yourself and because you're asking about your needs. And we're not supposed to do that. And when I get that, it's like, Oh, I shouldn't have spoken up. And I just feel horrible because I feel like I've offended and embarrassed my whole family. And, you know, it's balancing that line. And I cross it. And sometimes I just go back. Sometimes I try to go forward, but it's constant. It's a constant thing. It's exhausting.

[00:19:02] Arash

I would like to mention about two thing that Madison mentioned about self support and also Martin mentioned about how about immigrant stuff. So the first one is when I was kid and okay, I was diagnosed with a hearing issue hearing problem. So and the good thing was my mom, my dad used to go to work, so my mom was a housewife and she was at home. The good thing about my mom was my mom was trying to treat me like a normal kid, like a hearing kid. I mean, because normally the bad work. So I'm saying he was trying she was trying to treat me like a hearing son. So she never and, you know, you have to go to the grocery store and, you know, street and neighborhood. And my mom never asked me not to go. She always let me go. She said, okay, go pee. And I now I understand her point that she was doing this and for me to face the real life. So she she wanted me to raise myself. I mean, she wanted to give me courage to go to courses, see, And even they used to make fun of me because of my accent or and my hearing issues, which is, you know, biking all the time. It was okay. We still have here now pooling. We still have it but less than people. So it is very important that and my mom did that for me and not asking me not to go. So she always let me be free and faith a real life. The second thing, as Hector mentioned, inside the family information is very important as an as a hard of hearing person or deaf person. We cannot listen to music because we cannot hear well, I mean, so I had less information about singers, about songs, about movies, about movies, because back in time, movies they didn't have any closed captions.

[00:22:06] Arash

So I had to sit with my family and living room and watch the TV together without understanding what the movie is about. I didn't know. So as Madison mentioned about self support, it reminded me of this. I started learning body language when I was trying to watch a movie without closed captions, and somehow I was able to understand what the movie was talking about with body language. So it was one of the skills I got. So like maybe self skills, something like that. So when I was trying to communicate with my cousins or family, they were when they were talking about singers or song or team, I was feeling that I was isolated because I didn't have information. Even now, even now in the field, I feel isolated because I don't have information. I was born and raised as a hearing person. I mean hearing impaired person, so I didn't have enough information about it. So I was not able to communicate with other hearing, I mean, other communicating community rather than deaf and hard of hearing people. So information is something that I feel I'm kind of isolated, but when it happens, I said, it's okay, I cannot do anything about it. It is what it is. So I don't know if it's right or wrong. I keep moving, so I keep ignoring. So this is sometime it's frustrating, but as I said before, if this door is close, I try to next door. If that door is closed again, I keep hearing doors, so I don't like to waste time. So I always try to ignore and move on.

[00:24:37] Mastaneh

Just out of curiosity was what your mom's position, you know, the way that she said, you know, just go join the, you know, hearing world and kind of set you free in that way. Is that something that you would condone that you think was a positive for you? Or I suppose I'm asking for you to speak to parents right now a little bit who have children who are deaf or hard of hearing. And just based on your experience, you know, what part of that was beneficial? Was there anything you wish your parents had done differently now?

[00:25:21] Arash

I realized that it was so positive. It's very interesting. One of my friends, he called me last year and he told me I have a I need to. Meet with you. I said, okay. So we had lunch together and he taught me out of my second year. My second kid and she's 3 or 4 years old and she was diagnosed with hearing problems. So what should I do? I said. Good. Good. Asked me and I told him that. And I told him and his wife not to be worried. I mean, every parent is worried and I totally get it. But not being worried too much, they should start tweeting that nothing happened. They need to they need to tweet them like hearing kids because more you care about your kid, they may feel more dependent on you. The parents they should know they cannot be with next to the kids for the rest of their life. They the kids, they know how to deal with these issues. I'm very thankful that my mom did to me. So I don't see any negativity in it. Even I told you before, even the grocery store, the guy, whoever, they used to work there, they used to make fun of me, but it didn't worry me. I mean, it bothered me a little, but it didn't cause me not to go there anymore. Next time I went there with more power. So every time I used to go to the grocery store, I used to be to have more self-confidence.

[00:27:38] Arash

So but I'm not trying to say anything about myself. It depends on people, too. Maybe some kids, they may be shy or maybe some kids. They take it personally or they get hurt. So it's a very sensitive topic. I cannot say all the kids can be like me. No. Even my friends and my friend said his kid, his daughter, she's so sensitive. And I said. It's okay. But do not be too much sensitive. So she can be. She can hurt more. Let her go play. And then. Oh, one more thing. Sorry, I'm not going to take your time. Hey, Mom taught me when she goes to play with other kids, they dedicate. They don't let her play because I'm not. I'm not saying that they didn't let her play. They couldn't communicate with the kids. So that's why she she was she she was isolated. So I told her, mom, you need to. To a maybe first attempt if it failed. Okay, no problem. Second. Third. You should not stop. You should not give up. You have to keep teaching your kid to go out to communicate. Communicate with hearing kids. But it looks like the kids is very shy. And she's. She’s hurting herself, so I don't know how I can help her. She's four. Five years old.

[00:29:44] Mastaneh

Yeah. Think so? It sounds like you really appreciate the way that your parents growing up weren't too overprotective, and that seemed to really empower you to, like, kind of go out there in the world and become more independent and really learn how to deal with whatever negative circumstances that come up. And I think that's really important.

[00:30:11] Hector

I definitely agree with the rush with the fact that it is a personal. Kind of fetish she has. The person that has to live with it is the individual with the disability. And I definitely understand the good intentions that family members have or even us we can have. And, you know, we develop coping skills to the inaccessibility. But think of a similar parallel example. The disability community and the LGBT community have a lot in common. The criminalization of who they are, first of all, you know, think, for example, right now of our trans children, you know, who get persecuted because of who they are. And we have parents that help them to be, you know, who they want to be at an early age, because we recognize sometimes that not embracing the the the centrality of who somebody is and really uplifting that, you know, unequivocally, unequivocally, you know, for many people can lead to death or just completely disassociation from society. Similarly, in the disability community, I have had my family members do both sides, you know, recognizing that I had to kind of it's tough out there. It's going to be tough. You know, But that doesn't necessarily mean that I should compromise. And my family goes back and forth because sometimes there's there's times where it has gone successful and there’s some times where it has gone horribly wrong and I pay the price and severely.

[00:31:49] Hector

And so sometimes my family like, no, pull back, pull back, pull back, you know, fit in, fit in, and, you know, because you're going to die or you're not going to function. But then sometimes, like, nope, you fight as hell for everything, no matter what, you know, and it comes and goes. Because we as people with disabilities are expected to have an overabundance of resilience. That nobody else does. Okay. Just for being who we are. And so think there is a similar type of parallel that that that we share within those two communities. My my hearing loss is going to be progressive. And so I'm rapidly as I get older. Um, I'm not necessarily losing my hearing, but I'm becoming more deaf. And so I've had to really, really embrace that particular idea. I'm not losing hearing. I'm gaining deafness as a disabled person. I'm fortunate enough that I have more access to my disabilities communities to build that support network because at the end of the day, it's really our community that for the most part looks out for us and we take care of each other. Um, you know, when our parents or our representatives have no longer there, or even us, even when they are, they help to build our independence. And that happens in every type of social structure, you know, Um, and I think sometimes we have been forced to just get used to it.

[00:33:20] Hector

Um, adopt, uh, go with the flow, be grateful. But that's not living for many folks. It's progressive and it's hard to ask people to, to take that position because it takes a lot of work. It takes. Then all of us have the same resources. So sometimes it's almost like even sharing good examples can set somebody to failure, and that should not be the case. If anything, just remind folks of what is possible out there, what you could have. And I think that's ultimately I go back to Raj had mentioned how we have a responsibility to share our stories and we share the adaptations that we have had to do and recognize that it's something that unfortunately, because society is not built or designed for people with disabilities, because they have this weird notion of normal that doesn't exist. Um, you know, and that it values this concept of ableness over diversity. Um, it's complicated. And that's why the disability space is just so important in conversations of equity and justice, because they're so intertwined. Um, you know, when we seek disability justice or equity for people with disabilities, it's not just for the deaf and hard of hearing community. It's for everybody because all of us have the potential to develop a disability at any time in our lives or loved ones. And they can be temporary, long lasting, chronic, you know. And so I think for some of us, it's almost like a survival strategy to push the envelope.

[00:35:08] Hector

Um, so that others can have that if we are in a position where we have more comfort or privilege to survive as who we are, we can do that. But it's still a significant burden. And that's not something that we should have to be doing. You know, and again, it goes back to the unfairness and that's the discrimination, the ablest that the that exists in society. Um, just like how men never really understood why it was so important to let women be women, you know what? Or people of color should have equal representation or equal rights, you know, like now it's like we don't it's like, how dare anybody think anything about that and think. I want the same thing for people with disabilities. I demand the same thing for people with disabilities. And I oftentimes tell parents also that thing, they're going to get hard, you know, and everything. But it's also very important to help build that disability identity because that's where we find community. That's sometimes where we find our authentic community and our systems of support that are unconditionally accepting the reality. It is a struggle. It is something that will fluctuate. And one day, you know you'll be fantastic, in the next day you won't. And so you have to be able to give people that spectrum, that reality.

[00:36:31] Mastaneh

I think it's it's so interesting what you're saying. It reminds me of a story that a client of mine who had a physical disability was saying that as a child she was sent to regular school. Right. Just like an all. And the parents thought this was the best for her because it kind of built her character, built strength, taught her how to manage the world, she said. But one month out of the year, she was sent to a camp with other disabled kids. And she said that that month felt like almost a deep breath for her because during that month she was able to just not have to explain herself, not have to advocate, not have to feel isolated and just really be a part of the group. But it was interesting because when it was time for her to go to university, she very specifically picked a. A university, you know, with just like that didn't necessarily have all the things in place for disabled people. And she did that on purpose because she wanted to go there and really advocate and make change, which she did.

[00:37:43] Mastaneh

And so she kind of talked about the importance of growing up with both of that, you know, having the opportunity to be in the mainstream while having the opportunity to be with supportive people that she could relate to that had similar experiences to her. And I think both of you really talk about both of that, which is very interesting to me and the importance of both. You know, just like you’re talking about the importance of, you know, building resiliency and letting things go and being okay with whatever comes and opening another door parallel to knowing when it's time to stand up and fight the fight and advocate and speak up and so I just found this so interesting. Hector, as you were speaking, you talked about how the Native American side of your family looks at your, you know, any disability, not as a deficit, but as a gift. And I would love it if you could spend a few minutes just like kind of explaining that philosophy, because I think that in itself could be so impactful and helpful for people.

[00:38:54] Hector

Well, yeah, definitely. Thank you. Um, you know, we're not a monolith, so there's, like, over 500, uh, federally recognized tribal nations in the United States and territories and, um, people with disabilities. We exist everywhere that Native people exist. We have the largest representation of people with disabilities than any other native ethnic population. Deaf blind sign language. Uh, we have various types of sign language that are incorporated not just for people with disabilities, but for communities. You know, they would be using sometimes in social gatherings so that we would talk to each other. Sometimes when interacting with different tribes that spoke different languages, the sign was the the sign languages were actually the commonalities that helped the tribal communities, you know, collaborate. Um, other types of disabilities as well. You know, some of us would play, you know, specific roles in our communities. Um, you know, some of us were, um. Information keepers or we will do certain ceremonies. Um, you know, and so it was for some communities a recognition that people with disabilities or special gifts and we don't even like share when somebody has a disability, we don't talk about them. We don't we don't want to disclose it because it's a gift. But we're also worried because a lot of a lot of people with disabilities in tribal communities get taken away because we have a long history of child separation.

[00:40:23] Hector

But so we think of it, we don't with anybody, sometimes disabled, sometimes also for protection. So we recognize that that's an important to have that strength based approach to it because we recognize that it's so possible for any of us to develop certain things. And many of us have kind of that type of relationship to the creator that everything has a purpose and we help people find a purpose and people with disabilities. One of the purposes that we have is we remind folks to keep going, to keep going, to keep going. And sometimes, especially during the pandemic, that was one of our key roles because he was historically one of the things that has helped our tribal communities survive after significant events. This wasn't our first pandemic. This was one of many pandemics that we're dealing with. And they don't end for us. And people with disabilities like myself, one of the main roles that we have in these times is to tell folks not to give up, no matter how. And it's been really hard and to keep going, to adopt, um, you know, and to kind of really embrace. The variances that we have with what life has.

[00:41:40] Hector

But, you know, along the lines, sometimes we've also lost culture and we have been colonized and our subjects have been kind of changed. So it's not a ubiquitous type of attitude, but it's one that has that is being there's a reemergence and a reclaiming as a we’re reclaiming our languages and our traditions because we weren't allowed for many years. It was against LA. We're reclaiming some of those practices. So there is some there's a really broader growth in the native community, what we call Indian country, to really incorporate the disability community into a lot of our practices. It's not always there. You know, my family, like one of my biggest microaggression is because I can't hear myself. Sometimes I get I speak very loud and I don't know that I'm speaking very loud. And in native community, speaking loud is very offensive. And so I'm constantly being told to bring it down, to be quiet. And it feels like for me it feels like a micro-aggression because it's like I can't tell the difference, like I just said it or even in meetings and people think that I'm being aggressive or too passionate. It's like I'm I can't hear myself sometimes and, you know, think. And so that's sometimes he even brings conversations within our community like, wait a minute, how are we also sometimes hurting our our folks by putting some of this Western ideas that are ableist.

[00:42:57] Hector

And so we're having conversations about what is like to be ableist in Indian country and understanding because we have certain conditions that we've never had before, or we have spaces now for people with communities, disabilities that many of us never lived this long. Like, I'm one of the oldest men in my family and I'm a person with a disability. And historically people like me because of the challenges in nature, we didn't survive that long. So that's another reason why we were considered to have gifts, you know, But it's a reclaiming thing. And it goes back to this whole thing. You go back and forth, it's a survival thing, and sometimes you advocate for your existence and you reclaim it, you know, because sometimes just being who you are is is a form of radical act in itself, you know? But that's not a very easy thing to do. It's very exhausting. It's very, very, very scary. And sometimes there's there's there's there’s punishments for that or consequences. So, you know, it's it's very difficult sometimes to ask somebody to be brave unless you’re there with them.

[00:44:02] Arash

It's very interesting. If someone doesn't have disability, they may not have some skills. For instance, a few months ago I went to a concert and a hard of hearing people and person I didn't know what they were announcing a microphone and speaker. So and my friend didn't pay attention and she didn't hear well because she didn't pay attention. I just saw a sign. And then because we were working fast and I just saw the sign and I said, Oh, we have to go that way. And she said, How do you know? I said, Oh, I read the sign. I didn't see the sign. So she was very impressed. That. Or how do you read every sign? I said, okay, since I'm hard of hearing, I have to pay more attention to the sign. Which hearing person may not because they use ears. But since I don't hear, I have to pay attention more to the sign. So I feel it as a gift for myself. I mean, and like this skill.

[00:45:30] Hector

And Arash mentioned one of the ones that have developed like I wasn't very outgoing or even sociable, but because sometimes I can't hear, I've had to really put attention to people and the body language and facial expressions, especially with Zoom, where I can see people like Closer is like I have had a significant like it's like I went to Zoom University this past three years to read facial expressions, to try to understand, read the room, but also the individual. And that has allowed me the opportunity to have a better understanding of people, to relate to people that didn't necessarily have that other people don't have. So I'm more sensitive and aware of. People where they are sometimes, or even how they're reacting or what they're experiencing when I'm there with them. And it's made me I feel more intuitive than I've ever really am. And people are like very surprised of how that has developed more than anything else. Um, you know, because I've had to really be more aware of other things. Um, because I didn't realize I took all those things for granted before I think or just wasn't really aware because I was depending so much on my hearing.

[00:46:47] Madison

Thank you both so much for sharing. I feel like that's a beautiful place to end. Just sharing your gifts with your journey.

[00:46:54] Mastaneh

I know I learned a lot, so I really hope that this podcast is as impactful for our communities as it has been for me.

[00:47:04] Madison

I would like to thank our wonderful speakers for giving their time and wisdom and being here today. I want to remind everyone that if you're in need of mental health resources and support, you can call the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health's Access Helpline at 1-800-854-7771. I also want to invite you to listen to our other podcast episodes, as well as our YouTube series that addresses the topics of mental health and wellness as it relates to the deaf hard of hearing blind and physically disabled communities. For links to the podcast and YouTube videos, feel free to reach out to cross-cultural expressions by emailing us at Connect with CC at gmail.com. You can also find links by going to our website at archive.org.

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