The Lab Safety Gurus
Discover the secrets to enhancing laboratory safety without the hassle of navigating complex regulations and modifying established practices.
Tune in to the enlightening discussions led by the knowledgeable Dan the Lab Safety Man and infectious disease behaviorist Sean Kaufman. Together, they explore a wide range of lab safety subjects on a weekly basis.
Stay up-to-date with the latest trends and engaging debates surrounding lab safety by tuning in to every episode.
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The Lab Safety Gurus
Finding Your Footing: The Value of Professional Coaching for Lab Safety Professionals
The weight of responsibility in laboratory safety can be crushing. Between emergencies disrupting your carefully planned day, colleagues who seem determined to argue with every safety measure, and the peculiar invisibility of successful prevention efforts, it's no wonder safety professionals often feel isolated and undervalued.
Sean opens this heartfelt episode by sharing the loss of his friend Ellen, a laboratory safety professional who was experiencing significant job-related distress shortly before her passing. This profound moment serves as a gateway into exploring the emotional and psychological challenges that safety professionals face daily. Dan adds his perspective, describing how safety work can feel thankless and lonely, especially when you feel like you're the only one who truly cares about preventing accidents and injuries.
A critical misconception many safety professionals carry is believing they must personally enforce all safety measures – essentially functioning as the "safety police." Sean emphasizes that this mindset is fundamentally flawed: "Safety professionals' job is to say I see something here that concerns me, I'm raising a flag, I'm raising an alert." The responsibility for driving organizational change rests with leadership, not with individual safety personnel. By reframing this understanding, safety professionals can shed unnecessary burden and focus on their true role as advisors and advocates.
Professional coaching emerges as a valuable solution for those navigating these challenges. Unlike counseling, which examines past events, coaching focuses on forward movement and goal achievement. Sean describes his approach of daily 15-minute sessions spread across four days each week, creating bite-sized opportunities for growth and reflection. This methodology recognizes that our thought patterns become habitual, just like behaviors, and that sustainable change requires consistent attention over time.
Reach out to us through our websites if you're struggling with safety challenges or feeling overwhelmed. We're committed to supporting laboratory safety professionals not just through information, but through personal connection and encouragement.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast. I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2:And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing safety insights for those working in laboratory settings, doing safety together. Well, welcome back everyone and Dan, welcome back to you. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:Sean Kaufman, it is great to be here with you today. I'm doing great. How about?
Speaker 2:you we're doing. Well, I can't believe it, dan. We've been doing this over a year. I can't believe it, and we've just been sharing some stats lately. I mean I can't believe we've had 100 downloads of the podcast this month, which is, you know, people may say, well, that's really. I mean, when you look at Joe Rogan and you look at some of these big podcast names, I mean come on, we're. You know we're small, but a hundred, you know, dan, we set out on this podcast to make a small difference in the world. You know people working in laboratories all around the world and I think we're slowly doing it, dan, we're doing it. I mean this is good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I is good stuff director. He said wow, what a great niche you have in lab safety for a podcast. You need to try it out and we have. So I appreciate everybody who's been listening and I hope we've been helpful useful and just helping to make your lab a safer place. What are we going to talk about today, sean oh?
Speaker 2:wow. Well, so we are going to talk about a professional coach, and let me explain, let me put a little background into this. Dan, just recently I don't know if I mentioned it, I probably did if it was in our last podcast, but if it wasn't, I mention it now I lost a good, good friend of mine who happened to be in laboratory safety and her name is Ellen and she worked with me and I worked with her and supported her and she was just an exceptional individual. And it's sad, I have to be honest, dan, it was sad. The last conversation I had with her, about four days before she passed away I had with her about four days before she passed away, she was in distress and and it was job related, dan, it was uh and and and, as you know, being a safety professional, it gets tough in the trenches.
Speaker 2:I mean, it really does you, you come into work and and you think you know what you're going to do that day and all of a sudden, everything you had on your schedule gets blown up because you had an unexpected emergency or something that was unforeseen. Maybe an auditor shows up or somebody comes in. You're undervalued. You're undervalued. Yeah, you're undervalued, and what I mean by that is is the, the, the things you put into effect and the differences that you make in the job place are never seen, because if you're doing your job, you're preventing incidents and accidents, and so the only things that are ever seen are the bad things that happen. And so you feel undervalued.
Speaker 2:And and then there's the people, dan, that just argue with you. You feel undervalued, and then there's the people, dan, that just argue with you. And it's not your fault, it's not your fault. I mean, they're just dumping trash all over you. They're arguing with you constantly. They don't listen to what you have to say, or at least it appears they don't. And I can go on and on, dan. I mean anything come to mind on you, tell me about the trenches, because you're right there. You're working in the front line of when you're in the trenches.
Speaker 1:You said exactly. It can be lonely, it can be. It can feel like you're the only one who cares about safety. You may go to your leadership and they're talking about you know finances or different projects that are that are more primary on their on their list than safety. Uh, you can be you. Can you? You catch somebody? Or you try to coach somebody in the middle of them doing something wrong and they respond with anger.
Speaker 1:It can be very stressful. There's a lot of things that can sort of not help your day go along smoothly when you're in safety, and it doesn't matter the size of the organization. You could be in a single small laboratory and again you might feel like you're the only person who's caring about safety, noticing issues, trying to fix them, but getting pushed back at every corner. Or even if you're in a system, are you fighting system goals? Are you fighting? You know the organizational goals? Are you aligned with them? And does it feel like you're valued with what you're doing because they're more concerned about you? Know a different kind of outcome it is. It's stressful, it has its lonely days and it has its days where you feel like you're in trouble when you're trying to do the right thing all the time. You feel like you're trying to do the right thing, but you kind of doubt it sometimes. I understand that stress definitely.
Speaker 2:Well, and this is where you and I we've been working together. I do want to put a shameless plug in, of course, dan, come join us January 31st the first week of February. We have a leadership institute on board a Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. It's amazing. We are trying to refreshen those individuals serving the front line. I mean seriously. Not only do we do it more efficiently on a cruise ship where we spend seven days out at sea, but we give you 24 hours of professional development and credit and lectures and training and networking opportunities. We're trying to refreshen the group. But I want to talk, dan, about a service that I'm providing, and it's a service that I've been providing for quite a long time, and it's coaching. It's intrinsic coaching. Actually, it's a an approach that I've been using for many professionals. I've served many professionals in safety, but I've even served people personally who are going through tough times. But, dan, let me just off the bat. I mean, what do you think? Do you think a safety professional could benefit from a professional coach?
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, especially if you're new to the field and you don't know what's going on. There are so many aspects of learning the job. First of all, you got to know the rules and regulations, you know. Can a coach help you there? Sure, but the people part, the relationship part, is so important in the role that having somebody guide you and lead you in that is extremely important. You know, when working with somebody I've had somebody as an employee, I've had a couple employees in my role as a safety officer where I work, and the biggest piece that I coach on, teach on, is the people part. It's so the relationship part. It's so important to develop the relationship, to put money into that relationship bank so that when the time comes that you have to work on a serious problem or a safety issue or you need to coach on something, you have the ability to do that, you have the relationship to do that, you have the skills to do that, but you can't learn any of that, you can't learn any of that without somebody helping you to do that.
Speaker 1:As a coach I often work with I belong to an organization called the National Speakers Association and I'm not advertising for them, uh just because sometimes I speak. They help. They help you know, they help teach about the craft. But there's a lot of people there who are trying to become coaches, uh, but they want to coach the C-suite, they want to coach, you know, life, uh, life coaches and things like that. But the pieces about coaching that I've learned that have been the most value valuable have been about the relationship coaching, uh, and the and the team coaching. What is your coaching? Focusing on sean?
Speaker 2:what you know, dan. A great question, I so I have to tell you the the first time that I ever coached somebody, meaning I was in counseling for quite some time and I didn't find any value in it. And the difference between counseling and coaching is counseling is looking at, in essence, what's happened to you in the past and coaching is looking at, well, what are you wanting? From this point, moving forward, and to be honest with you, the very first time I coached Dan using the strategy that I'm using today, I coached a safety professional who was dying. He received a terminal diagnosis and he wanted me to coach him through the dying process.
Speaker 2:And when I you know, dan, you asked a question like what are we focusing on here? You know, as a behaviorist, if you come and see me and you attend a training, you know that I tend to like to focus on behavior, and I believe that behavior drives who you are on the inside. But I also know the different aspect of psychology that says that we get into a habit sometimes, dan, of thinking very poorly, thinking poorly of ourselves, thinking poorly of the job that we do. We sometimes, for example I'll give you an example on safety, one of the biggest mistakes, I think, in safety is that safety professionals actually think they are leadership.
Speaker 2:They actually think that they are the police officers and they're not. They actually think that they are the police officers and they're not. They're not. Safety professionals' job is to say I see something here that concerns me, I'm raising a flag, I'm raising an alert, and sometimes safety professionals will put all that burden on their shoulders to try and make the organization change, when in reality that's not their job. Their job is to say to leadership I have concerns, I have worries, and it is the leadership's job to drive that ship. And that is the best that a safety professional can do. And if the safety professional takes everything on their shoulders, well, dan, they're almost setting themselves up to fail. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to agree with that. We are actually in our organization. This year we're doing something that's called a safety refresher for the staff, not for leadership, and one of the things we talk to the staff about. We get them out of the lab for an hour, have a good one-on-one conversation about safety and relationships, and one of the things we have to say, and that we do say, is we don't have any authority as your lab safety officer. I can't write you up. I can talk to you about a safety issue that I see, but I have zero authority in this and that's not what our relationship is about.
Speaker 1:And sometimes we'll have lab staff, you know, sometimes we'll take photographs of unsafe acts and things like that, and sometimes people get mad and like why are you taking pictures in my laboratory? I'm like you know, we don't we use these photos for education, educational purposes, safety eye slides, as we call them. We don't we. We blank out faces so that nobody can tell who it is, that, if, if there's somebody actually in the picture. And you know, we only use them for educational purposes.
Speaker 1:But we have to actually sit there and explain that, because a lot of people do see us as the police and boy, I don't like that at all. I don't for a couple of reasons, but one is I don't want you doing the right thing because I'm in the room. I want you doing the right thing because it's the best thing for you and your safety, so that you can go home at the end of your shift and be happy and healthy. So yeah, it's a lot to talk about with people, but you almost have to educate them in that way because sometimes the people you're serving don't know the difference. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:I think also, too, coaching is, you know, being a cheerleader, and what I mean by that is is when you're coaching, you are an advocate for the person you're coaching, and not everyone around them, not everything, and again the attention is on them. It's on a process of thinking, and that's the you know. Again, as habitual as behavior is, dan, our thinking processes are just as habitual, and if we can get people to start looking at, okay, are your expectations reasonable? What is your goal when you wake up and you come to work? What skills do you want to focus on? Let's create an action plan. Can I hold you accountable?
Speaker 2:These are all things that a coach can do for someone in bite-sized pieces, and that's the key. See, dan, I don't meet with folks as a coach once a week. It's every day for 15 minutes, for four days, monday through Thursday, four days, every day, 15 minutes. Because I believe that small, bite-sized pieces over a prolonged period of time is going to make a big difference when we are trying to re-establish the habit of thinking and delivering safety. What are your thoughts? What do you think about that? Yeah, that is a great approach.
Speaker 1:You know we have in our organization over 20 labs and over I don't know, over 50 some safety coaches and I wish we could meet with them on a daily basis like that. But there are some smaller groups, like in our reference lab. We have a smaller group of safety coaches and we get to meet with them at least monthly and do some of that coaching. And it's so much better because you get to hear about their day-to-day, you get to find out what their struggles really are, what the hard parts really are of their job. And you know, one of the safety phrases I don't know if you want to call it a buzzword around our organization is called peer coaching and we also have to teach people that.
Speaker 1:You know everybody's your peer. You got to get rid of the power distance in the lab because sometimes, sometimes you know on the clinical side of labs they've got the pathologist comes in. Well, oh, I can't coach a doctor. You know I can't say anything to a doctor. Yeah, you can. Oh, here comes a nurse who's bringing a specimen in from another department, you know, wearing gloves and touching my doorknobs and all that. I can't coach her. She works in another department. Yeah, you can. She's your peer too, so we teach a lot of that because we want to be able to have that communication that you're talking about every day. But you also have to do it with everybody. You have to broaden your net a little bit in order to coach everybody. When it comes to those coaching moments, boy, I think it would be great if I could have Sean Coffin, 15 minutes every day, telling you know, and I could tell you what my barriers are to coaching. My barriers are to safety in my lab and help me think about ways to overcome those. That sounds fantastic sounds great.
Speaker 2:All right, dan, I'm going to sign you up. Okay, you're, we're, we'll get the service for free, dan. You can call me anytime. You know that. That so all right. Ladies and gentlemen, listen, dan and I, you know we are very, very religious guys, or holy guys here, and we pray for all of you out there that you are strong and successful and happy and that you remain blessed, and we thank you for your service on the front lines, dan. Any closing?
Speaker 1:words. Yeah, I just want to say to all the listeners out there too you know we are here to help you. If you have a need and you really are struggling with something, please reach out to either one of us. Our numbers are public. They're on our websites. You can reach us and please feel free to do that. And if you just need somebody to pray with about something, we're happy to do that too Always.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Dan. Take care, we are the Lab Safety Gurus Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1:Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.