SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Virtual Expat, where we investigate the interplay between living overseas and living online. What happens to our online presence and online personas when we change countries? Does anything happen? Does one support the other? Does one conflict with the other? I don't know, but I wanted to find out. So I'm going to introduce a lot of experts in order to get to the part of this question. Is there interplay between our online self and our geographically varied self? This is such a special podcast for me. I taught Ong in a private language school in Hanoi, Vietnam about 10 years ago. Just before I got married, just before I moved outside of Vietnam to start a completely new life and move to a different country and all those kinds of things. And if I remember correctly, she was just about to leave to go finish her undergraduate degree in the US. And I feel like we were both on the precipice of something really, really, really big. And fast forward 10 years and being able to talk to Aung and through the premise of her onlineness and her expatness and all of that and see her life through that viewpoint in English after all of these years from that language classroom to a full-on conversation where there was, I think, one moment where I said, eh, because the technology copped out, not because her language skills were so bad. So it's just, it's it makes me so happy to see how far she's come, how much she has done, and how many opportunities she has seized. I know this sounds cheesy. We're both adults, and I shouldn't have this crazy mama pride moment, but I I do. And I I'm sorry, Aang, but I gotta say it. I'm so proud of you, and I'm so excited on the person that you've you've become and the things that you're going to do in the future. Let's get started because Aang can definitely tell you herself what has happened throughout the years online and off. Thank you, Ang, for joining us today on Virtual Expat. Can you give us a brief overview of who you are?

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for having me today. My name is Aang. I am from Hangui, Vietnam. And um 10 years ago, I was a student at a language learning center in Vietnam, in Hangui, Vietnam, and um then I moved to the state to study abroad. Uh, undergraduate degree in fine art, and then a master's degree in fine art as well. And then I worked for a little bit of time here as well. And now I'm here in New York City. Uh working as about teacher. Oh, you're teaching right now. Yes, I am.

unknown

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02

That's how I was like I understand how you feel. Dear listeners, but just before the conversation, we were talking about how I burnt out on teaching, and it takes a long time to get to burn out, so don't worry. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, I'm actually doing okay with teaching. But I like I actually have taught in diverse settings to be a position, and so I I understand like the amount of work put in and the expectations and the pay, and just a lot of struggles surrounding what teachers should or shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_02

For sure, for sure. And are you teaching like a hands-on arts class or like a history of arts class, or what are you teaching?

SPEAKER_03

I'm teaching basically any kind of art, making for middle school and high school kids at an academy in Japan.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, the the model is one-on-one, so I only have one student per class. Oh, that's nice. I know it's very nice of the student, it's very nice of me too. It can be actually very challenging. But sometimes the model can be a little bit uncomfortable to if the student doesn't uh respond to listen or things like that. But so far it's still in the great. Yeah. Very cool, very cool. All right, yeah, especially I started studying art um like seriously when I after I moved here in the US, um, especially college level. And so that kind of foundation was never a thing in Vietnam as you kind of own the public education system there. It's just kind of restricted on public system education.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's dive into your online life, shall we? So when you before you moved to the US, what did you do online? Whether it be on a computer or on your mobile phone, what what kind of things did you do in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_03

Um, I remember my friend told me about Facebook. And actually, I remember she actually set up my Facebook account for me. We were just kids, and she we were just like, okay, this is kind of like a trendy fun thing to do. And so we just took it as if it was a like a with a fun game to to kind of get to know, and which really is super, you know, easy. It wasn't anything anything like that, just like a like a harp, like an activity to do outside of school. And I think I I used Facebook for the year before the off.

SPEAKER_02

And you moved to the US, was it 2009?

SPEAKER_03

Yes. How'd you know that?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I did I did research, girl.

SPEAKER_02

There is some organization to my madness. That and that's also the year that I left Vietnam, so I kind of put two and two together. So okay, so about 2008, you were on Facebook. Were there any that were that you were using in Vietnamese?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh well, Yahoo Messenger was like the thing. Whoa. Back in the day.

SPEAKER_04

Old school, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I was on that all the time to chat with my friends in Vietnam and also when I was in America within the first like two years, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh wow. Okay. And was that just for keeping up with friends, for meeting new people, for groups?

SPEAKER_03

What what kind of no, it was just to chat with old friends. Yeah. I mean old, I mean like my friend, back in the day. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, it was it was um a friendly platform that that back in the day like all high school students used. So basically using it as I moved in the US.

SPEAKER_02

But then things up for that. This is bringing back serious memories. My first the first place I no, seriously, I was on Yahoo. I was a Yahoo girl for a long time until um I don't even remember why I stopped. I think Gmail was faster in getting emails. Um, but I was on Messenger, I used Yahoo music all the time. When I was in internet cafes in Taiwan, I'd have like Yahoo music on in the background. It was like pre-Youtube. So I just had like their streaming music on in the background, and I'd hear all this new music from Yahoo. And no, I had so many. So what happened to Yahoo?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

There's they're still around, but they're not they're not at the forefront anymore. So interesting. Okay. And then when you moved to the US, did you keep going with Facebook and Yahoo Messenger?

SPEAKER_03

Or I did. Um a few of my close friends were on were using Yahoo a lot, the the Messenger the chat platform. So I use that a lot to chat with my friends. Um, but then I stopped using it uh for just some personal um reasons. Um and then yeah, I I have been using Facebook. So with the exception of a few times I sort of deleted it for yeah, reasons that we I'm sure we will continue.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh, you know I'm gonna ask, why did you delete Facebook?

SPEAKER_03

Is that like a like a question right now or is it gonna be Yeah, sure, let's go. I think I was um actually dealing with social media is still uh um a puzzle for me to understand. Yeah, um because I I truly think that for now that our generation we need to have a clear reason, we need to be honest to ourselves why we use specific type of social media. Like, are we trying to love ourselves more by using social media? That's the question. That if if that's is is the reason. I for me that's I can't use Facebook or Instagram or whatever because that's not gonna work on me. Right. And so it's just growing up, uh being by myself in the state, dealing with living abroad, um, keeping friendship and connections um from abroad, um, and growing up too, just and from a teenager to a young adult and trying to figure out college major and directions and path. It was just a lot of confusion together. Yeah, and it just messed me up. You know, I it just felt like my self-esteem or uh my personal emotional well-being wasn't in my place, and it felt like Facebook or just social media in general was not helping, and actually was doing the exact opposite. And it was like a distraction for for me to focus on college. Yeah, and so I need to focus and just like have clear space for for myself, um or just personal well-being. So I deleted Facebook a few times, yeah, and I felt I felt really great. Yeah, but then I yeah, yeah, but then I missed uh my friends, you know, a lot of my friends actually reached out to me by email and write you were like write each other letters, you know, just to tell each other how things were going um in our lives, and then at some point I'm like, okay, I think um I'm good now, I'm ready to get back on social media.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So when you went off Facebook, did you go off Facebook or off of all social media at the same time?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, just Facebook. I guess by social media, I'm just saying like Facebook.

SPEAKER_02

Sure, sure, sure. Um, and how long did you stay off most times that you deleted it?

SPEAKER_03

Lost time, I think I were gone for maybe I can't remember, but I wanna guess three months okay, four months, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two college students, that's a long time, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02

It is it is a long time. I tell you, I I have such a struggle with Facebook. I've been off of Facebook for oh my god, years. I don't even remember. I think it's eight, seven or eight years. Because I was a lot older when Facebook came out, so it wasn't so much that it was interrupting me, my identity, my life, or anything, but it was there were weird friendships happening. Like people I hadn't talked to for 20 years found me on Facebook, and I hadn't, we hadn't reached out, we hadn't written letters or emails or anything for that long, and all of a sudden I knew everything they were doing every day. And it felt like we were skipping over getting to know each other again, and it was this weird, quick intimacy. And with people I just met, they'd become my Facebook friend, and again, suddenly I would know everything about them all at once, and it just it felt weird to me. And I didn't want to say, No, I won't be your Facebook friend, because I did want to keep in contact with them, but I also wanted maybe I'm too traditional, but I wanted to kind of get to know them in layers, and that was not happening. It was like everything all at once, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Just being, I mean, I'm skipping over a lot of things, and I thought it's just kind of strange, it's just a bit of information, but just being in the subway training near city, yes, to realize everybody's on their phone. Yeah, yeah. It's wow, like wow, we really are talking to each other via phone.

SPEAKER_02

Well, okay, to be fair, before mobile phones and and and smartphones and that kind of thing, people weren't really talking to each other on the subway either.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, they weren't?

SPEAKER_02

I was like, No, no, I mean it's like public transit, they're all strangers, you're tired. Like in the morning, if you're going to work, you're tired, you just want to get there. I mean, I don't know. I don't think it's it's that so much, but I think there's I think we're sort of in this new stage of technology that we're we're kind of just doing everything and then we're gonna maybe pull back a little bit and make more choices.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. It was just like other activities that can keep us away from checking on each other's new things or checking if you have any advice to get and a post.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it can definitely, definitely distract us. That balance of online and offline life is really tricky. Really important. Fast forward, what do you use now in social media?

SPEAKER_03

I use Facebook and LinkedIn, which I um I barely use LinkedIn. Um I could I like I'm actually for LinkedIn, um I'm f I'm trying to kind of figure out uh my career moves. Uh sort of prepare my LinkedIn profile toward that goal.

SPEAKER_04

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03

I haven't put much effort into um polishing my LinkedIn profile and actually fully utilizing it to the full extent they can give. Sure. I have used it for work application and stuff like that, but not like to the full extent. Uh I use Facebook. I have Instagram, but I have refused to post anything on it.

SPEAKER_04

Why?

SPEAKER_03

So you said you're kind of traditional. I think I am too. Um and uh as an artist, uh, I guess I'm just kind of hyper-sensitive about things. Um and I I I'm on Instagram because I want to know what my friends are up to. Um actually I said that because it was like a thing that people do. So okay, yeah, I'm gonna talk about an account. And I got all kind of follows and stuff like that. And I see my friend posting, but then as I reflect on my usage of Facebook and some of the bad habits that come from that, which is like sometimes I'm always on Facebook, or sometimes I not sometimes, oftentimes I realize that I check for likes or I check for positive comments, support comments, stuff like that. That um I don't want to to be more distracted by by that kind of mentality from another platform. I refuse to do that. But however, I know that social media is a great tool for artists to promote their work. Yes. So hopefully in the future, I um I will make use of my Instagram account for my my art.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Instagram has by default turned into the main thing that I use right now, mostly because I think there's something happening with my internet in China, because I I used to use Twitter mostly and I kept getting locked out. Like once a month, Twitter would send me an email saying, Hey, you're locked out, you have to do all of these steps to get back in. And I was like, So I've kind of switched over to Instagram, but I don't have Facebook, so it's mostly I check Instagram and I'm done. I have Instagram, I have email, and then I have people in real life. Like I definitely don't want a million different platforms to have to check and to look at things because I think it can be distracting. I think it can be very connecting to find people globally doing similar things, but again, that that balance between connecting with new people and maintaining the relationships you have.

SPEAKER_03

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's that's hard. That's really hard. Are you still connected to a lot of folks back in Vietnam via social media?

SPEAKER_03

I um most of my friends that I have, um, we still find on Facebook. And these days, you know, on Facebook, like actually because we haven't been also on Instagram, so we kind of know like just even liking somebody's post shows that you care and you support them. Yeah and so I try to do that to people who who I'm close with or friends and people. Yeah, yeah. I know we haven't talked to each other for like two years, but how are you doing? I know that people are very busy, so don't worry about responding to me over time, but please know that I've thought about you and I hope everything is good and whatever, so and so. Yeah. When I actually remember to do that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And of course, we have to talk about your art because you've got an amazing website with some pretty stunning artwork there. So can you kind of describe what you do?

SPEAKER_03

Um what I do now or what I what I what I actually do because I've been doing all kinds of different things.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay. Well, if we go by your your online life, let's see. Okay, so I've got kind of I'm looking at your website over here. We're here. Um so we've got current works 2012 to 2015. Okay, so is there kind of a chronology of your artwork? Like it does it, are there ways we can summarize what you've done and what we can see on the website?

SPEAKER_03

Um, so I have made art since 2009. Um full year and then college, but for like professional artists profile, um, online, like our present online. We want to put our best work online, make sure most of the time, like our early works are just terrible. So I don't think that's the right word to describe any artwork to begin with, but like just to be brief, I don't feel confident in my early works, so I did put my best in in and in every of the pieces that I that created. Um so yeah, so I just kind of curated the the ones that I think are relevant or that are somewhat an accurate representation of of my craft um and my level of maturity in in art making on my website. So even though the the website say, let's say the session of uh 2012 into 2015, I create a more than that, more than the amount of work posts there to create just a few out of the body of work and I post online.

SPEAKER_04

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03

Um so how would you describe the work that you're doing now? So now I I've grown interest on a personal level and also um more like a research kind of level is um the idea of working and the domesticity. And uh particularly from my own personal experience of growing up in my in my family household in in Hanoi. And that's a personal, and then also the on the research level, then I I also look back into the archives um of memories, um photographs, cinematic footages, um and the tradition of culinary, um, especially in my household, to create my work. Um also to um generally contemplate on on the role of woman within the city. Yeah, and so I I create uh 2D fine art prints, some paintings, a lot of sculptures. Actually, I I call them 3D structure instead of instead of sculpture. Uh because I don't think of them as like a functional object in space. Or I change how you use actually I do, but anyhow, sorry, I'm I'm mumbling. Um yeah, I call them also I I call them structures um instead of sculpture. Um yeah, and alongside of structure, there's also installation uh where I I mix a lot of volumes together from like projections, the use of projection, lightings, um cutout, paper, fabric, um sound materials and prints. Yeah, all together to sort of be basically on the idea of home. Making more yeah, the whole the domesticity.

SPEAKER_02

Hey pets and geopats, what do you do with the annoying paper mail that you get to your old addresses in your home country? For a few years I'd have all of my mail forwarded to one friend and then I'd feel guilty for bothering them so much. So then I'd have a family member um deal with my mail and so on and so forth. And I did this for about like what 12, 13 years. And it got annoying, and let's face it, I missed the mail because people have better things to do than look after my paper correspondence. So I finally broke down and got a service from traveling mailboxes. They literally receive your mail, you get a US address, you get to fix the city that it's in, and you receive mail, and they'll let you know when the mail comes in. They'll open it, scan it for you so you can read it. If you really need to, they'll forward it to you for fee. You can also get packages delivered as well. And so there's like a variety of different services that you can have where you don't have to keep bugging your friends and family to deal with your paper mail. So if you go to stepfuccio.weebly.com, it's S T E P H F U C C I O dot Weebly, W-E-E-V-L-Y.com. If you go to the bottom, you'll see the blue ad on the right, traveling mailbox, click on that. I am now an affiliate program with them, so if you join their services, we both end up very, very happy campers, and you never have to ask your friends or family to receive your mail again. It's truly a beautiful thing. Looking at your website right now, and there's one called Snowflower. Oh, yeah, that was an old look. Do you remember what was the inspiration for that? Because the transformation for the listeners, uh, I'll put the link in the show notes, but generally it it looks like it's a woman that was part tree and then she morphs into a quote unquote normal woman. Because there's two versions of I think the same woman.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, so that um so I must apologize that I don't remember all the concepts going to that piece. Of course, of course, yeah. But uh I know the I know the general inspiration for that work is uh my so that woman in in that in that work is actually my friend, her name is Mandy. Um and the piece is inspired by the story of and her grandpa and and the bird uh in the story, and so yeah, it it was inspired. Oh yeah, there is a bird, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And her connection with that um chickadee and um and the winter time in the Midwest, um, her grandpa. And actually, I guess I was trying to kind of gain some kind of connection with viewer on a personal, on a I guess genuine and real personal level with uh with a with a viewer and by actually conveying the story in my work. Um I didn't create the work to sell, I just wanted to create a piece of art based on my friend's um very touching story.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so that so why did you choose to put your work because these are these are physical paintings and installations and things, so why did you choose to put them on a website online?

SPEAKER_03

Um by having a website of your works. Um I can I can include it in my resume and my just any job application or proposal for for gallery, show, exhibition, any like artistic professional opportunities would ask for a link of the portfolio and have it on a professional, clean, um, nicely neat done website, it's so crucial. But not actually nowadays people use Instagram um instead because it reached a wider audience, a lot of like stuff like that. However, I I still think that having a website is like one of the most professional things that you could have for yourself as an artist.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah. No, that's a really that's an interesting point. So you're saying that some people use Instagram as their portfolio site now? Oh yeah, yeah. Whoa, that's kind of crazy. When did when did that happen?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, yeah, people could maybe some people may skill say, oh, I don't I I'm lazy to build a website or I don't have time, or it's too much money, it's too much hassle, and I can just upload photos on Instagram and I just like hashtag galleries or magazines or just like personal workplace that would uh recognize my work and maybe will get back to me, something like that. Yeah, social media has changed the game for artists, um, especially Instagram, I think. You can get you can you can connect a lot of people on Instagram if the work is good?

SPEAKER_02

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you think like galleries and stuff would look they do you think they see a difference between if somebody gives them an Instagram feed versus gives them a portfolio set like what you have? Do you think they prefer one or the other?

SPEAKER_03

Um I those are hard questions because I don't use Instagram to put my artwork yet. I know I should, I haven't yet, but I know I should. One thing that can give you though for sure is that it's always about the work. If the work is good, people will come find you. And that's that's how it is with the art world. Um you don't come to the Met or MoMA and tell them to give you opportunities, they'll come find you if you're if if you are good. And so I think if the work is good, whether or not it's on Insta on Instagram on on on a website, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03

You want to reach an audience for sure. If I mean I'm sure you can figure it out. You know, like attending social events, um, gallery exhibitions, yeah, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02

That's super interesting. Wow. Big fan of the things that have changed on Instagram. They have live streams and videos and all kinds of things now that I didn't realize it because I remember it when it was just a photo, not even two or three photos together, but a photo. And it was just a stream of people posting one photo, and I just I'm blown away that it's used for professional purposes now. I'm just blown away. Um, so have you received any feedback from random people that find your website and like your art and and that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I have not so much now, uh, but a few years back I have um quite a bit. And actually, the the reason why I uh reached out to me because they found me on some sort of exhibitions, um exhibitions, usually the gallery that would post information about you online, but artists about the artist's website online would click on it and then see my work and then they would contact me um via the contact page. Um so yeah, I don't think people would just like stumble upon my website accidents at all. It was always um via um platform of some sort.

SPEAKER_02

Sure, sure, sure. So it sounds like and it sounds like you're very careful about your online presence that you use your website and and LinkedIn maybe for your professional purposes, and then you've got like Facebook and maybe email for your personal uh connections and relationships. Does that sound right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I post my work on Facebook sometimes, and I receive a lot of supports from my friends for who I have like real connection with. Yes, I'm very careful with my online presence because I my my emotional personal well-being um is the most important thing. Um and then and then also how I come across professionally online so important to me at this point in my life, and then I just want to get rid of distractions as much as I can. Sure.

SPEAKER_04

That's where she's working in progress.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's that's super insightful. Like I remember, I'm really gonna date myself here, but back in uh junior high school, like what? So what was I 12, 13 years old? I remember taking full-on typing classes. Like we didn't have computers in the classroom, but we had typewriters and we would take typing classes. Oh, yeah, full for sure. I didn't have computers in my schools, classrooms, or even just in the school until university for me. Like that's that's how old I am. So I'm wondering now, with with social media and the internet being such a huge part of our lives, if we're going to start always a teacher in my brain, right? I'm thinking, are we gonna start having kind of like social media classes, like how to be a responsible digital citizen? Or are we gonna have like how to project yourself and what to post and not post and and all those kinds of things? Like, I wonder if we'll start to do that eventually.

SPEAKER_03

That is a great topic, right? Because yeah, because I have a younger sister, and she's 10 years younger than me. She's in Vietnam, she's uh in her last year, final year of high school. She I hope she's not listening to this. I don't think she knows what she's doing on her social media pages, and she's not helping herself in any way to grow, besides probably just hang out with friends in and on the platforms. Sure. And I actually I would love for her or or just younger kids like that to like her to actually know properly how to use social media to to keep herself safe. Yeah, that's a number of priority, and then also to actually learn something and to have fun too. I'm sure there's a lot of fun and joy. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, my I I am so grateful that all of this came uh to fruition after my 20s because I would have been one of those teenagers to go, oh, after like 10 years after, like all the stuff I would have put online as a teenager. I would have been irresponsible and just had fun and and posted stuff that really would have came to bite me in the ass. I would have been that person. So I'm kind of grateful I didn't have that opportunity. But now I'm wondering how how do we how do we do that for the next generation? Because there are uh even even people my age and a little bit younger are still sometimes posting things when they go on vacation and just things that aren't really good to put for because people, you know, employers Google you, they looked at your social media, and there's just things that you don't want people to see. And I just yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunity online. There's a lot of really cool things that can happen, but I think we need to be a little more cautious. And I think it's happening, but you know, forever the teacher, I want I'm wondering how we can kind of speed people up and and being aware of that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, a lot of I mean, people just can just um lie about their age when they set up their Facebook or social media account, and for some reason you have access to all these distributions of information that are not appropriate to your age. Yeah, but not all to begin with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

For sure, for sure, for sure. Well, that's I'm a huge fan of technology, so I don't want to spend too much time on the cautious part. So what kind of when you were back in Vietnam, did you frequent any websites either for reading stuff, entertainment, or anything like that?

SPEAKER_03

I use a I use Zing, which is like a like a music um slash news platform in Vietnam. Um that was I don't actually I can I don't remember what else. I'm sure I use other platforms. I know there is this um website called uh channel 14. I mean that's a translation. Channel 14. Um I I wasn't a fan of it because it was always about news that I like pop news that I didn't care for. Um, I yeah, when I was in Vietnam, I I will say I I never really focused on using much of any internet platform to to s strengthen my knowledge. Um mostly I think I I try to use internet as much as I could to study English and um prepare myself to go to America. Um yeah, I would say and watch a lot of movies.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, what sites do you remember what sites you use to watch movies? I don't know what's any any free website. Oh and also we had like cable in our in our house, so I was able to watch a lot of uh American movies. Yeah, I think that's a free way to learn like just to watch movies in that okay.

SPEAKER_02

And since you've been in the US, do you find yourself do you spend a lot of time online look looking at different websites or reading or watching videos or anything?

SPEAKER_03

There is this website that I love called brand picking. Oh, it's so good. I follow them on Twitter, yeah. So they're my favorite. Um I love on being, uh it's another uh platform of like pieces of um really good readings to dive into. Um and I also so like I would say brand picking is my primary um site to go to, and I follow a lot of other websites, um, but on my Facebook. Actually, I curated my Facebook news feed to show me uh just updates on these academics or fun the appropriate sort of yeah, laptops. Gotcha. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So it doesn't sound like you're that kind of person that goes online and loses two or three hours. You sound very focused on how you use the resources there. And I'm jealous if that's true. I'm very jealous.

SPEAKER_03

You can uh I also you know spend my online time shopping, looking at things. Yeah, that's very useful. Um but yeah, I overall I try to um to focus spending my time on on making art or cooking or hanging out with friends. Yeah, as much as I can. Overall, it's it's a balance to do everything.

SPEAKER_02

So it sounds like if we're if we're kind of gonna merge your online life and your your living overseas life, it sounds like your online life got bigger when you went overseas to kind of connect, like stay in in contact with that world.

SPEAKER_03

Is that yeah, I have a lot of friends on Facebook. And and I think that helps me in terms of of just knowing that I have connections um in places, in countries, but in terms of like the closeness of friendship, um, the only way for me to get that is actually to get to know people in real life. And I I've got um you know a few friends like that from Vietnam also from America that I'm close with and for that I'm very, very grateful for. Um it's always joyful and and good for me to to know what people from far away are up to. What are they doing? Um yeah, I Facebook is useful in terms of that.

SPEAKER_02

Do you do you find yourself when you meet someone, whether it be for professional purposes or social purposes, do you find meeting that person in real life, do you find that you kind of connect online too? Like you kind of combine the two worlds, or do you mostly just keep them offline and well for most of my time here in the US I was in school.

SPEAKER_03

And so it was a very easy situation to to be friends in real life and friends online at the same time. See the person all the time. Um but outside of school, um yes, in New York specifically, I have connected with people that I met for the first time on Facebook. I mean, not obviously I met for the first time in real life, and then I also connect with them via Facebook. Sure. Um I haven't seen much of anything coming out of that at all. Um, I don't think that's that's gonna break anything if you don't do it. Um I think it's it's always real live connection, it's the most important. Um yeah. Does that answer the question?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it did. Yeah, very much so. So, okay, so your online presence, the the your professional online presence is clearly focused on art connections and employ future employment and that kind of thing. What is your dream job at this point after you've you're still in in school right now, right?

SPEAKER_03

No, I just I graduated.

SPEAKER_02

You just graduate, okay. So what is your dream job? Like what what what kind of organization or person do you want to see your work and go, that's it? She's the one for us, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

I actually want my own thing. I want to create my own thing. Yeah. For myself, as like my dream. And I got this idea from being in graduate school, actually. Yeah. It's it's a big dream and something that I cannot like achieve immediately. That's what dreams mean. That's a dream. But if you take steps toward it, and so that you know, having my own business, it's it's my dream. Um I enjoy teaching. Um, I think that's a dynamical thing for artists. You know, we share how we how we do the things we love with others to spread the joy, but also just to like see magic happens and how to react to magic, aka the art making process, um our ideas and creativity transform into into an object. That's always fun to watch. So I I enjoy teaching all the time. Yeah. And I mean I I always I I I also love designing and and taking part of of um creative projects. So I have friends here and there with with their works and their projects when I can. I also keep my keep my window open to to opportunities. I think with every creative endeavors, opportunities, adventures comes, experience that will help feed into my my future goal. So I try also keep my window open so that I can I can keep growing and learning and discovering things that I actually will realize that I will need in the future. Instead of being strict and like this is the only thing. Sure.

SPEAKER_02

This is oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. All of my goals are kind of like written in pencil because uh you never know what's gonna come. No, I'm dead serious. I own I'm only writing in pen right now because I find if I write in pencil when I'm doing an interview that it comes up in the sound, and I don't know how to remove that. So this is the only time I use a pen. I literally write everything I do in pencil because everything's so fluid and so like you could think, oh, I want to work towards this, but then something else comes along that might even be better. And it's like, well, no, that's not my goal. I'm not gonna do it. It's ridiculous, you know? It's like, no, that's good. I'm gonna go do that. So yeah, no, I think it's very, very, very smart. When you say you want to have your own business, do you mean like creating art and selling it to people or something bigger than that?

SPEAKER_03

I guess basically, like business as a model to sell to people products that they buy into for uh for a self version of themselves that they want. Um what like what are that that that they want or seek in their life that you provide out to them? And so so for my dream, um, it's it has to do with fine art and culinary together. I love cooking. Um and of course, you know, with cooking, like you can always sell people's food. But then for my outfiting, I I create installation, I create an experience for people, and so for my for my dream, um, if I could merge the two together, that would be amazing. And uh again, like that requires a lot of investment on on you know, renting a place and materials and getting to know the right people, having money to pay, or whatever. It's just so many things. Um, so yeah. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But it's a dream. Do you cook a lot? I do. It's one of those things where if I if I don't I just do that. And also sketch and draw, but I love cooking.

SPEAKER_02

Are you enjoying this conversation about our virtualness and our geographicness colliding? Me too. Hey I would love to interview you. Do you live in a country that is not your home country? Let's talk about your experience. Let's do it. Contact me at Steph Cuccio S-T-E-P-H F-U-C-C-I-O at gmail.com or you can hit me up on any of my social media platforms. I am Steph Cuccio on Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr. So contact me. Let's line this up. I would love to get your opinion into these questions. Into the world. Let's do it. I I feel the need to talk about Vietnamese food for a second. So you lived in South Dakota and Ohio and you're now in New York. Did you find any Vietnamese good Vietnamese food in uh South Dakota or Ohio?

SPEAKER_03

In uh not Ohio. Not in I lived in Athens, Ohio. Very small town. But in South in in South I live in like a like the biggest city in South Dakota.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah yeah yeah that that was very nice um to to uh be able to find a Vietnamese restaurant. Yeah in South Dakota yes in Ohio no New York yes way too many yeah I cook a lot and I I love feeding people with good food and so when guys have a restaurant like my kitchen is a restaurant and I miss food and I have friends over.

SPEAKER_02

That's amazing that's wonderful. Yeah Shanghai has so many different kinds of food. I mean it's a giant city but it's Vietnamese food is sadly underrepresented here. Vietnamese food and Indian food is really really underrepresented and every time I go to a new restaurant that a new Vietnamese restaurant that opens up I just kind of go no it's just not I don't think anything's ever going to be as good as being in Hanoi but it's just bad. Like there were some okay places in San Francisco there was some oh sure there's one in Kuala Lumpur in Hong Kong there was there was some good Vietnamese food but for some reason Shanghai just it's like the black hole of good Vietnamese food so sad. Oh so close interesting yeah so okay so we have kind of touched on the negative parts of a reckless online presence but what would you say like when you moved from Vietnam to US again I know this is years and years ago what what do you think was there a positive influence that having access to the internet had on that shift in geography and culture and all that kind of stuff um I got a lot of emotional support from my friends.

SPEAKER_03

When I first moved here I really missed home and I felt really lonely and I longed for that comfort of being in Hanua with people that I am close with. And so I posted pictures a lot of pictures and stuff doing online and my friends at home would comment on them show me support show me love and that was so helpful to to help me prepare to prepare myself to to stay long term in the US and I'm very forever grateful for how much they were they were there for me when I didn't yeah yeah how long do you think I mean I know you if you you make a conscious effort to stay in contact with people but it sounds like there was more contact with them during that challenging period.

SPEAKER_02

When do you think that dropped off and you didn't need that support so much that's a great question.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you I wish I knew about these things from other people's perspective like I wish I knew about other people's uh stories with with Facebook 2010 to 2009 2011 because I do think that the the the use of face the like like the trend of of Facebook's use has also shifted dramatically ever since 2009 to now 2018. So I don't know if my experience is universal but I think it uh the my interaction or even with friends and with Facebook in general dropped around my um I would say my my senior year of college which was 2014. And they kind of gradually led to that point. I think it's like when people start working um um having jobs or moving everybody just moved overseas then everybody's like so busy with their own things and they no longer like we're no longer just children. We actually we're studying yes with students that we have like just serious things to do which is like paying rent affording to live in a big city things like that somehow we cannot afford just being sort of funny and and you know like naive and playful on social media with each other as much anymore. And it becomes much of less of priorities in every way um in our lives so I would say that's that's one component um what else there is this niche of of for for my experience alone um for me living overseas and growing to become a person of who I am um with my life in America um sometimes I I I just feel like I need to distance myself from like the past sometimes just to help myself focus on the present and the the presence of social media interaction with my with like past connections in Hanoi who actually for example are now living somewhere else they don't even live in Hanoi anymore.

SPEAKER_02

My friends like live in so many other countries in the world yeah and somehow like presence of of social media now is kind of represent some sort of of the past of history we kind of become I know I I kind of talk a little autistic that's why I'm making faces I'm like oh my god you're bringing up so many different thoughts in my mind like I was okay one thought is I was talking to someone the other day and we were talking about it's so geeky but verb tenses in different languages or just time time in different languages how some uh languages have like you know English has the verb inflections I am I was that kind of thing and and I think I know I'm sitting Mandarin Chinese and there isn't so much of a verb inflection but there's other ways to talk about time and and I all of all of a sudden as I was talking about the linguistic part of it it dawned on me that I feel like the past has a certain heaviness to it not necessarily negative but there's a certain there's a certain weight that comes with the past for me. And I feel like that needs to be highlighted in language somehow and with just the word yesterday it doesn't seem heavy enough for all of the things that come with that heaviness. And why this connects to what you just said is because sometimes when I'm walking around like now I've lived in Shanghai a while we lived here eight years ago we came back it's almost two years I'm familiar with the city enough where it feels like my daily life is here. I I don't think we'll be here long term but it feels like I live here. I'm not just like visiting or oh this is a new street you know it's it I live here. But sometimes when I'm walking down the street I'll think of someplace back in the US and I'll kind of see that place for a second and I'll go wait I'm back in China or I'll see some place in in Hanoi because I was there for almost three years or I'll see some place in Japan that I lived in. Like I'll different places will kind of come into and bring kind of the heaviness of the past into my present just randomly does that ever happen to you happens is really what do you do when it happens honestly it happens in songs in cooking just like when I mix different factors together and that's it ten years ago just popped into my head in my kitchen as I mix this material.

SPEAKER_03

Or even yeah it's I I remember things to make work. Okay I'm sorry about that um yeah I I memory is is my my artistic art so you can say that I'm a psychopath to some degree but yeah I I I I really check I really treasure my uh my memories in my past um yeah um and I need I also know to myself well that I I know that I need to to balance that with keeping up to date with the the contemporary life technology whatnot yeah but um yeah memories and time is is definitely my my interest in my artistic practice um yeah I curate um things around me things in my room things in my life that can best um I guess cultivate my curiosity with with art making yeah if there was an art scene like you wanted in Hanoi and you had stayed there do you think these these themes these images would have come to you or do you think it's the act of leaving and kind of reflecting that brought it out of you? I would say some other things but probably in a similar direction because I always struggle with understanding the domestic dynamic um in my family like the gender role that entails our actions and behaviors in ration I think that's I think that's my biggest struggle in terms of of like where I'm from um I think that has a lot to do with the histories and and religion and um politics and everything and cultures everything in for my childhood that that create the dynamics in my household the way it has been it becomes my artistic um uh interest in terms of my decision um of making art being an artist or how my art change comparing from here to Vietnam I never able I was not able to see myself as an artist in Vietnam because of the educational system as you probably understand a little bit about like you didn't even have art programs in high school right like that art music was banned from high school to public high school was one of the major turnoff for me. The other one is again like just like super tradition not traditional like old and uh no longer working with them to educate children and channel their curiosity and their talents and the gifts and anything.

SPEAKER_02

I want to just go on and like talking about myself um but I yeah if I was to stay in Vietnam I would I would never become an artist right here in my the education system the way it is and the way it was yeah part of selfishly part of the goal with this this particular podcast is I'm trying to tease out what is the effect if any of our online lives with our living overseas lives do they affect each other do you feel like your online life and your life as someone not from the US living in the US do you feel like those are two different entities or do you feel like there's a place that they connect um the place where those two connect is how often I post the quality of information that I share and how I come across online.

SPEAKER_03

And also I think it's also my mentality my mental space of like who I care to give to read my my information and um sort of limit out the rest. Sounds kind of cold but um yeah it's a lot to deal with being in between two places. Yeah it is it's a lot um yeah sometimes I would post things in Vietnam if if if I if my intent was to show my friends that I care that okay this post is only for you well I have like 600 friends most of them are American and I only care to hear from you. I only care for you to read my post. Right and that and that's for me that's for me to to be clear to myself that um I want to express some sort of care and and attention toward this group of people even though they're probably not gonna help me any anymore in my future whether in job or money or whatever. But I care about them because they are my people and that that is for my wellbeing. I try to limit um the the search for attention and uh for like approval and stuff like that on my in my online presence as much as possible. And I usually I kind of I'm very careful with that because it's like again my my mental wellbeing is like the most important thing for me in terms of social media and um I I would actually it's kind of a funny trick is that my my audience on Facebook would be like only me so I wouldn't have a post and click like update like post and my audience is only me. Yeah and then I don't think like was that for me to to seek attention and approval or was that purely to share information or to sort of inspire us interest or creativity or dialogues if it's for the second purpose and I would change it to friends only like the audience friends only all the public if it's like an event that that I'm trying to advertise um if it's like for myself and for my insecurity then I will delete it. How did you get to this really really aware state of your onlineness like was there someone that you saw being very careful and you kind of went okay I want to start doing that or did it was it just trial by error where you just made some mistakes and then pulled back yeah I made a lot of mistakes I yeah I think I during my college years I I let um I guess the use of social media dictate so much of my my satisfaction and my like a better word um happiness I think when I was younger for like every information I put out there um I I became insecure about myself you know I was waiting to hear something back whether it's like via like private message or a public platform the Facebook the law news feed and so I realized the pattern of of my emotional breakdown from that activity and so then I yeah I've come to a conclusion over time that okay this is happening again I'm I'm waiting to hear from people if people don't respond to my message or don't uh comment on my post or whatever I feel like I I was wrong I wasn't or I wasn't good enough or I felt guilty for something that I don't even know what yet I feel like it's my fault. Yeah even though it wasn't anything much of anything of a big deal or it actually wasn't even in a picture of anybody's state of mind. It was just my own personal insecurity and just confusion and um more like so like you know I was just way too genuine with or too too caring about things that don't matter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so I just can relate so much I can relate so much to what you're saying like so like mirror image of yeah that experience yeah that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

So yes so I gradually realized that pattern and and how social media fed into that and so I think the tactic of only me or friends only or for the public to see came into the picture to to help me take care of myself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah yeah no I think that's a really really important thing I wonder if it's possible to be to have an online presence without going through that period of doing it I don't know like how do we find out what's comfortable for us without kind of going too far and then coming back and can we skip that step at all or do we have to go through that I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I'm curious too because a lot of people seem like they they have no time at all dealing with social media.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no no if if they say that out loud they're lying I've no I I've heard a lot of people not online so much but I've heard a lot of people talk about this offline usually years after they've made the mistakes that change their behavior but but yeah I've heard a lot of people talking about this uh this kind of you know figuring out where and what you want to do online by making mistakes it seems to be the only way to do it right now. So yeah I don't know or maybe they don't maybe they don't post enough to make mistakes or maybe they don't use social media at all. I don't know I don't know. We have a few different ways that you can feed back. So if you go to steffpuccio weebly dot com forward slash contact let me do that a little slower. S T E P H F U C C I O dot W E B L Y dot com forward slash contact. You'll see all kinds of ways you can contact me and let me know what you think of this podcast. I have email, weChat if you're in China, Twitter, LinkedIn, and my new favorite thing is Speakpipe over on the right hand side of that page you'll be able to leave a sound recording basically a voice message. You just hit the start recording button that's in bright orange. I can also respond in a voice message there as well. It's a really really cool feature I can't believe they have this available for free but until they get smarter about that I'm gonna take advantage of it because it is such a cool feature. Thank you so much. I appreciate all of your input for future interviews on this topic of the intersection between move living in a different place and our online existence and how they affect each other what question do you think I should ask people in the future well that's a very great question.

SPEAKER_03

Also the first questions that I want to know from people is that what do you use social media for? How many I mean you can't ask me these questions already or just you know try to challenge people to be honest to themselves first and also share that with you hopefully you know like honest reasons of why they use social media in in one way just hearing everybody's honest experience and struggles emotional um levels of social media also just get to know and just The different people's approach to solve that matrix would be nice and comforting for the audience to hear and also to reflect back on their own experience. I think the questions um when you brought up about educating younger audience, like younger kids on how to probably use social media as like a like like a requirement in like in the school setting or something. It's a very good topic, I think, to you know, just to urge for discussion between people. It's like a lifestyle kind of kind of thing, it seems like too. Um that platform. It's I think it's the skill to it really is. I've never I've never I've never taught how to do it right. Um so I'm still a bit nervous about it. Yeah. Actually, I don't have it to begin with.

SPEAKER_02

But I think it's part of the messiness of the internet right now. Like we have so much, just in general, we have so much online, but it's not really organized in a way that's good. And I think our social media presence is part of that messiness as we're just kind of doing lots of things, but we're not really fully kind of organizing or strategizing what we're doing. And it's part of the beauty of the opportunities of the internet, but I think at some point we have to pause and reevaluate things. Oh, it sounds so serious. I really am a big fan of technology and the internet and everything it can do for us, but there is a downside too. Right, right. Totally. So if we can if we can very cheesily end on a positive note of uh something, I don't know. Do you have any surprising stories or any good things that happened because of the opportunities on the internet or your social media connections, or I don't know, a positive story of your onlineness?

SPEAKER_03

My all-time favorite is receiving emails from old friends and old professors. Share the meeting, you know, they week or they day, ask me how I'm doing, as if we literally are talking to each other in person, but the other people is like okay. That's my all-time favorite. Yeah. Because that shows okay, we're real friends. And just receiving emails of like a paragraph or two, that's like it's just a nice night. I love it. Um, I actually I I found my current apartment. I was able to connect with people to find this place and rent this place, which I love. So that's a very positive um thing on social media. I will know, just like in your city, um, a lot of people you know do the same thing where they where they put you know their stuff's out there on social media to smell or you know, stuff like that, and and kind of just go into two strangers' houses to buy furniture or to get um the other day. I went and got a free shelf from from this twin sister in Astoria, and I wanted to like just have conversations with them, like so why why are you guys moving? It's like, oh, we're moving to California. We got this cool video production uh opportunity for buzzfeed, um, both of us, and we are twins. That's amazing, yeah. You know, so let's just connect for a little bit, and I think that that when social media can like interaction, it's into like a real life interaction, that's my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Like you just said that social media helped you find an apartment in New York City. That's amazing. I I was born in New York City, but I haven't lived there for a very, very long time. But there's a joke in a lot of American media, I'm sure you've heard it, where there's there's there's constant jokes about how hard it is to find an apartment, an affordable apart apartment in New York City. In fact, in an old, old movie now, oh, what's it called? When Harry Met Sally, one of the main characters said that he feels like the obituary section and the apartment rental section should be combined to say, you know, this person unfortunately died today, but they left behind a beautiful two-bedroom in the upper west side, that kind of thing. So the fact that social media has made that easier is wow, that's huge change.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and and and these pages kind of facilitate what people in the arts. So not so artists. But how I have the page also taken um by um like renter uh um realtors uh a lot of the times, but it's a different story. But yeah, actually, because I'm living right now, actually, my roommate it's an alumni from my graduate school who I didn't even know. I just came in five years, and he was like, So you live in Athens? That's right, I went to school. I'm like, there's only one school in Athens, yeah. So we were like that's amazing. We went to school and was in Ohio, it was even in New York City, and so yeah, there's there's a lot of support groups out there for sure, for sure. If you have in like intention clear of why you're doing what you do on social media, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's a that's a lot of positive. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm oh my god, I'm I'm I've so much to think about after after this chat. You not only curate your art, my dear, you curate your your online life in a way that's really positive and really careful to the point where it is a tool and it doesn't you work the internet, it doesn't work you. And that's a really positive thing. And I think it's it's really, really cool that you've that you've gotten to that place.

SPEAKER_03

Really cool. Thank you. It's it's still very much a learning emotional progress. It's a work in progress. And I feel all I need to be more out there, I need to be more connecting with people, and so you know, I'm also introvert uh in that I've learned a lot about my uh curatorial progress. Yeah, but um yeah, it's it's a it's a constant work in progress, but uh in terms of my emotional well-being, um I'm I think I'm in a much more stable place than I used to be when I was much younger, which is okay, yeah, right now. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome. Thank you so much for doing this today. Oh my gosh, I think my listeners are gonna go crazy listening to this, like in a good way. I think they're really gonna enjoy your perspective on all of this.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you for watching out. That's amazing. Um I was really glad to hear from you.

SPEAKER_02

It was it was kismet. You were like, hey, I've just moved to New York City, and I was like, Oh, oh, um, we've gotta talk. Like, we've so gotta talk. So you're from New York City? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was born in Brooklyn, and then my family moved to Long Island when I was three, and then we moved to Pennsylvania when I was eight. So my formative years were in New York, but I have not visited since I was no, I'm not gonna say that. I'm gonna say I haven't been to New York sin in in in 25 years. It's been a long time. Yeah. And but I have to I have to visit at some point because my husband has never been to New York City, and he's an American who's never been to New York City, and it's my first city. Every city I go to, even now, I compare to New York City. Even though I'm sure that New York City in my head is not the New York City that exists, I still, it's my it's my first city, so I compare everything to it. So thank you so much. Seriously, I'm so happy to be connected to you today. I hope to see you at some point somewhere IRL.

SPEAKER_03

Have a great day.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Virtual X Pat. And special thank you again to Damon Castillo for the music and to our special guest this time. If you'd like to be interviewed for this podcast, just send me an email or contact me on social media in the show notes. You can find all my information, or you can just jot it down right now. Are you ready? You ready? Here we go. Death Puccio, S-T-E-P-H-F-U-C-C-I-O, Gmail, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr. There you go. Contact me. Oh, also LinkedIn too. You know what? I keep forgetting about that one. Hey! Thank you so much for listening, and I look forward to your questions, comments, feedback, any information, and volunteering to be on the podcast as well. Thank you so much and have a wonderful, wonderful day. On or a fine.

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