Alison: 

So my name is Allison Maciejewski. However you want to go. I am an expat. Currently I live in Prague, Czech Republic, but I moved here from Thailand, and I was living in Thailand for about four and a half years. So I'm. Today I'm gonna go go through some of my old Instagrams about my first year living in Thailand to talk about what it's like to be an expat, you know, for the first time in a new country and. And some of the things that you go through. And I'm really excited to be. To be on the podcast today. So thanks.

Steph:

Thank you. All right. And if I remember correctly, the time frame of the pictures we're going to look at is like, end of 2013, early 2014.

Alison: 

Yeah, I left. I was living in the US in the Bay Area at the time, and. And I had a career job, and I quit my NGO career because I wanted to live abroad again. I did a study abroad in Spain back in 2004. I think I might be dating myself now. I was in college back then, and then I lived in Ireland for a year in 2010-2011, went back to the US for family reasons, and then went. When all of that cleared up, I wanted to go abroad again, and I decided on Thailand, and so I left end of, I think, October 2013. That started my first year living in Asia. Awesome.

Steph:

And for the listeners, just so you know, Allison is also going to make a guest appearance on the Virtual Expat podcast later on in this season, so stay tuned. She'll be over there in a few weeks. I'll probably add the date. They're all over the place. Thank you for that. All right, so let's dig in to the first photo, the pool photo. Why did you select this one?

Alison: 

When I first moved to Thailand, I. I guess I thought in my mind that I was going to be like. I guess when people think about Thailand, you think about backpacker style, you think about living cheaply, you think about, I don't know, sort of like this backpacking, no frills, minimalist vacation kind of thing. Yeah.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

And I'm not really that kind of person, so I don't know. When I got to Thailand, I was shocked because I realized that not everyone lives like that. Clearly it was a lesson for me that Thailand is a place where a lot of people live. Not just foreigners, but clearly a lot of Thai people live. And they live in a very modern city. Bangkok is like a huge Metropolis, has like 18 million people. It's just like an extremely modern place. It's not countryside, it's not like a. The whole city is not like some weird backpacking hostel place. So when I got there I, I was able to live in this lovely, lovely building. And it was and probably forever will be the nicest place I've ever lived. From my salary as a manager and ngo, I was able to go to Thailand and afford a beautiful modern condo high rise apartment. Sure had a rooftop pool on the sixth floor. And I was a little shocked when I arrived because I didn't know that my money would go that far. Yeah, when I started looking for apartments and my real estate agent was taking me to places like that, I didn't believe I could live there. Yeah.

Steph:

Do you remember how much it was?

Alison: 

Yeah, it was for. I moved with my girlfriend. So the two of us were paying together before. Utilities, less than $800 a month.

Steph:

One bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom, one bedroom apartment.

Alison: 

Just like, I mean like a regular one bedroom apartment. Pretty small. But we, we don't like a lot of space. And so we had that, we had a gym in the building, we had the pool, we had a beautiful lobby, security guards when we walked up, incredibly safe and right in the middle of downtown in Tong La, which is one of the coolest neighborhoods in Bangkok. So. So I was. Oh cool. I was happy. And I don't know if I'll ever live in a place like that again, but it was cool. It was cool while I was there.

Steph:

Let's quickly describe what's in the photo and for the listeners we're going to put the links in the show notes. So yeah, so we'll have that. But just in case you don't want to do that and you want to imagine it in your head. Allison, can you quickly describe what we're looking at here?

Alison: 

Yeah, so what? At the time I took this picture, I was sort of in awe. I was standing on one of those elliptical machines inside my gym's fitness room, which is like the tiny. Inside my condo's fitness room looking out onto a massive like 30 meter pool with like floating beds, like sunbeds in the water. Like on the right hand side of the pool there were like little cabanas to lay on. And then in the distance you can see part of downtown Bangkok. And then this is on the sixth floor rooftop. So you can just sort of see like all these trees and plants and it's kind of like a luscious fancy pants looking place that is, it is beautiful.

Steph:

Is abstinence. You do Want to go to the show notes? You don't have to because it's a bit. It's an audio thing. But you do want to take a look at this. Now, what is the. Okay, so can you read the caption real quick?

Alison: 

Yeah, I. It says first workout in my building's fitness. So that's the word they use for, like, an. An in condo gym. And I was learning that as I was looking around at condos, they were calling it the fitness zone.

Steph:

Oh, okay. Not the gym, not the rec center, not the sports center, but the fitness.

Alison: 

The fitness. Okay, yeah, gotcha. Cool, cool, cool.

Steph:

All right. And let's see the next protest one.

Alison: 

Yeah. The next picture is. It's an image of. So the main road in Bangkok is called Sukhumvit Road, and it is one of the largest roads in all of Southeast Asia. It goes across many countries. But it's also the main highway through Bangkok. Not highway. It's just the main drag. I would say within a couple of months, a couple of weeks after arriving in Bangkok, there started to be trouble. Basically, a lot of people were protesting in Bangkok. And in the picture, what you see is the road, just the main road just full of people. It's got, like, cars and flags, and there were people whistling and people with megaphones. And you mostly see Thai flags. And in the photo, you'll notice a lot of people are wearing yellow shirts. So it was a real introduction to Southeast Asian politics to understand what was going on in Thailand and to try and quickly educate myself about what these people were protesting about and what was going on in the country.

Steph:

Did you eventually feel unsafe as you were, like, taking pictures of this and seeing all of this go down, or did it just feel like.

Alison: 

So it didn't feel unsafe. In the picture. This is actually the BTS station. So above where I'm standing is from the sky train looking down, but on that right side is my building where I live.

Steph:

Oh, okay.

Alison: 

That's in front of my house, literally. Oh, wow. It didn't feel unsafe because the people were protesting peacefully. There were police around. But at the time, I don't think I was aware of, like, police corruption and things like that, but I felt it was generally safe until they started having random bombings throughout the city as that started to happen. And it was happening in public places like MBK Mall, like outside of CM Paragon, which is a very popular shopping mall where I used to go. Yeah. That's when I started looking into the history of what had gone on in Thailand in previous political Unrest situations. They had burned down an entire mall a couple years prior. Yeah. So when they started having these random bombings and they started talking about potentially another coup, I started to have to learn about the Thai history very quickly and. And consider what might happen to me. Should I stay? Would it be safe for me to be out and about my shopping? Things like that.

Steph:

Random question. Not random, but question about Thai politics. They have coups quite often, right?

Alison: 

Yes. I think they've had something like 11 or 12 successful coups in the history since they became a constitutional monarchy in the 30s, 1930s. Wow. Or before that. Yeah. So they. The military is incredibly involved in their politics. The government is usually considered to be sort of a populist government. The military is considered to be more loyal to the Thai royal family, as you may or may not know. They have a law called Le Majeste, which means within the country, you can't talk openly. Right. In public or to journalists about the royal family whatsoever, or you'll be thrown in jail. So there's. I learned a lot quickly about, you know, I wanted to learn a lot too, from Thai people, but there were things that they didn't want to talk about openly and certainly not with a foreigner. So I had to do a lot of online research, and I still have a lot of questions. It's very complicated. So. Yeah.

Steph:

Oh, sure. For sure.

Alison: 

For sure.

Steph:

Wow. And that was. That was a few months in after you moved there, right?

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. So these protesters are the yellow shirts. They would be loyal to the royal family, to the. They would be for the military junta that ended up king hold of the country and remains in power today. So this was back in December of 2013, and now we're in September 2018. The same military juntas in power in Thailand today.

Steph:

Just. Wow.

Alison: 

And nobody's voted since then. So that was interesting to see from an expat perspective because it was certainly happening right in front of me. But it's also concerning a lot of things that don't necessarily touch me and affect my life. Until the bombing started happening and I started wondering, should I leave? Right, right. Yeah. But I ended up staying. Things calmed down because of the military crackdown. That sounds horrible. But the violence sort of calmed down. And then I just sort of wanted to stay and understand what was going on more than. Yeah, more than anything. So.

Steph:

It'S bringing back a lot of memories. I wish it hadn't, but it is. It's amazing how similar and different experiences are. And so, so similar. Like when I was in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I was only there, I think, six months, and there were protests all the time, very peaceful. People just walking down the street with banners or just chanting something, very kind of quietly and peacefully and whatever. So. So I got used to those happening all around the city. This is when I traveled and lived overseas alone. When we moved to Malaysia a month after a few weeks. No, it was a week after we got married. There were. There was like a protest in this. Like we were staying at a hotel while we were looking for an apartment because we were moving there and. And we used to do it backwards where we'd move and then find jobs. We don't do that anymore, but anyways. Well, it depends on where you're going. But we've. We've done this now since 2003, and it's just. We needed to do something different after a while. But. And this is one of the reasons why, is because we moved there. We were in this hotel, we went across the street to the mall, and we were in the Starbucks and the, the crowds appeared. And I, coming from the context of.

Alison: 

Oh, it's probably just peaceful.

Steph:

They don't look like they're going to do anything. And my husband's like, hell, no. Because he came from Korea, where apparently things do get a little bit aggressive during their protests. And he's like, we're going back to the hotel. The second we got into the room, we saw the. The. The police had set off the.

Alison: 

What?

Steph:

You got the tear gas. And we saw the gas, like, going up from the mom. I was like, okay, so noted. Yeah.

Alison: 

Because on one hand, all of your life experience, like, especially as an. Is that this is a peaceful protest and the police are there to keep us safe.

Steph:

Great.

Alison: 

And all of that. And then you sort of have to not just reevaluate. I mean, that's obvious. But you have to get real comfortable with the idea that, like, the police in this country perhaps will shoot into a crowd of innocent people. Yeah. And the people will also fight back and have no regard for human life. And there's not this big protection for the freedom of speech.

Steph:

And you have to be really careful.

Alison: 

I mean, it's not a joke, for sure.

Steph:

For sure. And it's not like that doesn't happen in the US But I feel like because I'm a citizen, I would have more rights to fight back. Whereas in a foreign country, for me, I know I have absolutely no rights and my country is certainly not going to come and protect me if I get myself into a load of especially living there illegally. While I look for work that will be legal eventually. You know, it's just this whole, like, lily, what have I just done?

Alison: 

People think their embassy is there to help them, and the embassy is there to help you. But if you are doing something considered illegal in that country, such as participating in political protests. Exactly.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

You're to jail. Yes. There's something. The embassy. The embassy is not going to save you. They're not going to send you home. They're going to leave you in jail because you. Yeah, yeah. Deserve to live. Like that's what happened. You did something illegal. So it's. It's kind of scary.

Steph:

Yeah. To be fair, not to scare people, but to be fair, if you are dealt with in a way that doesn't make sense, if you're completely innocent or what have you and something happens, then your. Your embassy, chances are, will probably come to your rescue.

Alison: 

They'll step in. But I think you have to also learn the local laws and. And see what would really happen because your rights in your home country are not the same and.

Steph:

Exactly, Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. But, yeah, what a lesson to learn. All right, so then we're moving on to Cambodia. What's happening here?

Alison: 

Oh, yeah. So this is a picture of me in Cambodia when I first arrived in Thailand. I had. So I'm standing. I'm on the Cambodian border. I'm near a casino. So a spot that people often cross over and do something called a visa run. And a visa run is when you're. You're in my case, my visa exempt status, which gives me 30 days to be in Thailand, or I think at the time I had an extended tourist visa. So that might have been the end of 90 days. When that's up, you have to leave the country because you want to have a passport that's clean and doesn't have any overstaying or anything like that. So you leave the country, you walk across the border, you have lunch, soda, something like that, and then you get. You walk yourself back across the border, back into the country, get on a bus and go home. And it takes about entire day. It's not a pleasant trip, but some people do this for years and years on end, and I did it twice. And I realized that this is not for me and I'm going to figure out my legal status quickly and not have to worry about doing abuser runs anymore. But it was interesting to me to have my first trip to Cambodia be to step across the border and go back the same way.

Steph:

Right now you look like, you're smiling in the picture, though.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think I had fun. It was my first time going to Cambodia. I. I got on a bus with a bunch of strangers. A guy that was kind of like an older creepy guy.

Steph:

No.

Alison: 

Expat guy was on the bus and sort of befriended me. Yeah, I kind of chit. Chatted with him and maybe. I can't remember, we might have split a carton of cigarettes. We bought them in Cambodia, which. They're horrible quality. Anyway, we went across the border, bought some cigarettes, went to a casino, walked around, didn't. I didn't gamble because I wasn't interested, and then got back on the bus with all the same people and rode back to Bangkok. So there's it, like in front of a shrine. I think there's like a little elephant. And I think by that, by that time, I clearly had learned about how to why and do the nice bow in front of the temple with me and small. So I was trying to show off my good manners.

Steph:

I think having not known the context, I would have been like, oh, you were. You were in Cambodia that day. Like, it would be like, oh, you went. You went on vacation.

Alison: 

Looks like I'm on a fun trip. And people would be like, wow, that's so cool that you get to do that. And, you know, it's cool, but it's also an expense and it's also kind of a hassle and. Yeah. A good motivation to take care of your status.

Steph:

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All right, so then we're moving on to the group photo. Why can I not find it? Oh, this one looks like so much fun. So there's people in this photo, right?

Alison: 

Yeah. So this is actually a picture of my first Songkran. I guess this would have been in April.

Steph:

Okay, wait, your first what?

Alison: 

Songkran is the Thai New Year. And the New Year, there's like a giant water festival. People in the tourist areas. People think it's a water fight, but it's not really a fight. It's like, supposed to be about renewal and refreshing and washing everything clean. And so it's maybe similar to other Asian traditions where you clean off the house during New Year's and pick everything up, you wash everything nice and clean, put it all back, that kind of stuff. So I was. When I first got to Thailand, that's. So that's me, the one soaking wet with the tights on. That's my girlfriend on my back. The other two girls are. There's Beau, a Thai girl, and then Lisa, a Mexican lady. That they co. Own a restaurant in Bangkok called Tacos and Salsa, near and dear to my heart because I made friends with them because I love Mexican food, and then ended up managing the restaurant for a year and a half, so.

Steph:

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alison: 

It was a good. A good way to make friends. But there it was way before I worked at the restaurant.

Steph:

That's.

Alison: 

We went to the restaurant to go eat, and they decided to introduce us to the s. Grand tradition.

Steph:

Oh, no.

Alison: 

That includes dumping water on all kinds of people. It was just like. And you pour water on anybody, it's. There's no. There's no choice in it. You. You just do. Yeah. So you. You accept it kindly, and you do it to other people kindly, and it's really fun. So that's just us soaking wet and playing all day long at the restaurant. And the restaurant was soaked, drenched, and of course, it's very nice and clean after that.

Steph:

I was gonna say, because Bangkok is like a lot of Southeast Asia, very hot and humid. So then when you throw water on someone, like, you're just basically sticky all day then.

Alison: 

Right? I mean, it's kind of like a car wash. Like, you get ice in the water to make it extra cold. It's really shocking. Oh, and then in between that, they're throwing baby powder at you and sort of wiping it on your face. And then the cold water and then the powder kind of like all day long.

Steph:

What's the deal with the powder? Is that supposed to represent something or is that just a cruel trick?

Alison: 

It's definitely part of it. I wish I knew more about it, but there's always powder, and they're usually trying to rub it on your cheeks, and it kind of looks a little like the Burmese Tanakan, but I don't know if that's related, the little makeup that they put on in Burma.

Steph:

Okay, Okay.

Alison: 

I don't think it's related. I think it's just. I don't know, just put some powder on and then throw water on top. Kind of like blessing and New Year and things like that. Wow. I'm sure there's more to it. I wish I was more educated about why, but I just mostly play it every year, so.

Steph:

Yeah, no, that's.

Alison: 

That's.

Steph:

It's a really, really fun photo. My gosh.

Alison: 

And it was nice because it's not in the tourist area. It's just down in front of the rest. That's the restaurant on 18. So we're just down at the end of our soy. All the neighbors were shooting each other with hoses and running out with buckets and it was just nice.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had actually heard about the festival, but I didn't realize it was the cleansing bit. I. I didn't actually. I've never looked into the backstory, but that's very cool. That makes a lot of sense now that you've mentioned that.

Alison: 

That. Yeah, because that is prevalent a lot. And they similar festivals in all of the Southeast Asian countries. But. Yeah.

Steph:

Was that the first festival that you experienced in Thailand?

Alison: 

Yes. Yeah. And it's the biggest festival of the year. And it was super cool. I think I played. They call it playing water when you're like, up for it and you go outside and let people get you.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

So I think I played water for about two or three years until I sort of got like a bad attitude and didn't want to do it anyway. I would hide away in my apartment after that. So.

Steph:

So what. What month does that happen in? Is that January, February, or is it in April?

Alison: 

Oh, I think it's. Huh. Sweet.

Steph:

All right. And then we've got a little girl on the street.

Alison: 

Yeah, that's. So this is in Jang. This, what you're looking at is a large picture of a highway on the left, a bunch of taxis coming at me, and then in front of me, sort of like a walkway that's barriered off. And this is outside of the Don Mulang airport in Jang Watana area of Bangkok. This is. This is actually the location where if you don't want to deal with the taxi drivers that are trying to scam tourists and all that, you can walk out of the airport to a different. To the main road and then hop over the fence and catch a taxi without dealing with the weird price hikes, me coming home from some trip and going to grab a taxi. But it's also a picture of a child, a little girl, maybe about seven, with the parent. And they were clearly working together, the two of them picking up trash on the side of the road.

Steph:

Okay. The parents on the road. Right. And then there's the barrier, and then the child's on the sidewalk. Is that a sidewalk? Okay.

Alison: 

Yeah, it's like a sidewalk. So. And they've both got like, coverings on their face. So this is something that somebody who works outside all day in the sun will use to protect their skin. So they're clearly working and planning to be outside all day. Right. And I think this. I took a picture and you can't see any of their faces. So it's not an Attempt to sort of be like, oh, look at this. It's just me pointing out that there are things that I started to see and things that I started to get used to in my first year living in Southeast Asia that I didn't want to get used to. And one of those would be children working. I noticed a lot of construction sites that had a lot of children working at them. I noticed, like, all over Southeast Asia, and often at the time, I think the caption says, this is a little Thai girl. But now I look back at it years later, and I think this is probably not a Thai girl. It's probably a little girl from one of the neighboring countries. There are people from birth, Burma and Cambodia and Lao. Who go to Thailand for work, who go to Thailand attempting to gain refugee status. Right. And for a number of other reasons. And there is no refugee status in Thailand. So a lot of them work illegally. Live illegally. Yeah. And do whatever it is they can to survive because it's better than where they're coming from. And I think children working to help the family business is something that's very accepted in the West. We tend to put a number on that, like an age cap. Like, maybe they can start helping when they're 12 or when they're 14 or when they're 16. I didn't see that age cap a lot in Southeast Asia. So for me, it was kind of a reminder that even though I see this a lot and I see children working and, you know, at food stalls and in construction sites and here cleaning the road, it's. It's not something that I should get used to. Feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

It's also really interesting with the context that it's so close to an airport, which is kind of like a. A posh, exotic place that takes you all over the world. Right. And then you've got that situation right there.

Alison: 

Yeah. Just trying to. The adult is wearing, like, a vest. I don't know if you can zoom in on that, but it's just got the. The adult has on. I think it might have been the mother has on, like, reflective vest. So that's clearly their job. And the child is there with the parent at their job all day long outside in the sun and it's not nice weather, Right. Oh, yeah. I think that's. That's rough.

Steph:

I think it's. Yeah.

Alison: 

Oh, we'll get to that later. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

Oh, man, there's so much to think about with that. Okay, let's finish the descriptions, and then we'll come back to that one going food now. Sausage time. What's going on there?

Alison: 

Okay, so this next picture is from a trip I took to Nakhon Phnom in Isan, which is the north east region of Thailand. I took a trip to this city on the border of the Mekong river between Laos and Thailand. And it was my first trip to Isan. And this was some of the best street food I had. The picture is a bunch of coils of little sausages they're called. And the sausages are about like the size of a golf ball, maybe smaller. And they're all linked up together and they put them on these outdoor grills and they smell amazing and you can just. And they're super inexpensive. I think they were one baht per ball and that's, I mean, what is.

Steph:

It per bowl or per the ring of them?

Alison: 

One bot per ball. Okay, let me calculate it real fast. One divided by. What is that? Like almost less than 3 cents per ball.

Steph:

Oh my gosh.

Alison: 

Yeah, so you could just get a little string of 10 meatballs or sausages and then, and you get a little bag of like vegetables and chilies to eat with it and then you just like pop them in your mouth and walk around eating all day. It is so great.

Steph:

That this actually reminds me of Prague because I, I was backpacker chic when I was in Prague years and years and years and years and years ago. And there, I don't even remember which big kind of touristy area, street, it wasn't near the clock, but it was another area kind of near there. And there was a sausage guy just like a food stand and he had these amazing big like equivalent of $1 sausages. And that was like my breakfast and lunch every day. And then I'd eat something else in the evening. But that one sausage was so, so filling.

Alison: 

Yeah, you just find the thing that you really like and you go back for it every single day because.

Steph:

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So what was the most surprising? Like, do you remember what you were thinking? Were you thinking, I'm going to like this, I'm not going to like this or what?

Alison: 

I knew I would like it. There's, listen, there's not much I don't like. First of all, I will eat anything. And I like almost anything in Thai food is incredible. So this just reminds me of my first year because it was the. Every single thing I found on the streets of Thailand was delicious. And everywhere I went, to all the new regions of the country, I started finding that there were different Regional cuisines and, you know, with slightly different flavor. And I started to learn a little bit more of the complexity behind regional Thai food. And so I'm a former chef. I'm obsessed with food. I write for fnb. I do food writing now, and I. I just love food. I love to eat, and I think the food there is incredible. And yeah, this is definitely one of my favorite. I don't even know how to category. One of my favorite meats. I don't know. One of my favorite foods in all of Thailand is this saik rock. And I like spicy. So, yeah, they come with little green chilies. You just pop hole in your mouth and they're so good. But these. These specific sausages are made with fermented rice and mixed with pork. So they've got a real sour flavor and it's really, really nice.

Steph:

Love fermented rice.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

Love fermented rice. It's a fairly new thing for me. But seriously, I really wish I was on the fermented wagon 10, 15 years ago.

Alison: 

Yeah, I've tried to make fermented things, and I'm not good at it. So I leave it up to the experts. I buy it from them.

Steph:

Going to be trying to make a fermented cucumber thing soon. I finally got the jar, the perfect jar, and I'm. I'm gonna try it. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be awful.

Alison: 

But I hope it works out for you because I think you. I think it would be really like. You would just feel like a champion if you could come away with like a giant vat with something pickled and fermented. I've always gotten a giant vat of mold and had to duck it in. Oh, no.

Steph:

Oh, no.

Alison: 

I'm not good at that.

Steph:

We are even going to Japan, like next week, and that's where I. I ate. I. I'm sure it exists in multiple cultures, but the place I got addicted to it was in Japan. And we're going. But because it's a fermented thingy, it's all liquidy and stuff, and there's no way I'm gonna buy it and bring.

Alison: 

It back with me.

Steph:

So I have to eat it while I'm there, and then I have to learn how to make it. Because, no, we have tons of Japanese stores in Shanghai and nobody sells it.

Alison: 

They set it.

Steph:

Everything. I don't even know what it's called in Japanese. Honestly, I would just.

Alison: 

But it's kind of like a cucumber pickle thing.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You Know the daikon, like the. Because they have. They have kimchi too, but it's a much sweeter version of the Korean kimchi.

Alison: 

It's a little pink daikon that they stick next to, like, katsu curry rice.

Steph:

The.

Alison: 

The purpley one with the. The little strips. Oh, no, no, no.

Steph:

Okay, okay. Like, have you gone for, like, Korean barbecue? Yeah, the white stuff in strips that they give you at a side dish that. That cools your mouth.

Alison: 

Oh, yeah.

Steph:

That's not the cucumber. That's the daikon. So that. Yeah, That I love too, but that we have here, so I don't have to try to make that. Thank God. But the cucumbers are similar to that, but it's cucumbers instead of daikon. It's cucumbers instead of cabbage with kimchi. So it's a little bit spicy, it's got a little bit of a kick, but it's really sour. And it's got the crunch of a cucumber. It's so good.

Alison: 

It sounds good.

Steph:

It's really good. If there are any Japanese stores in Prague, which there probably are, check it out, see if they have.

Alison: 

Absolutely. There are not. Nah.

Steph:

I would send you some, but again, he's doing.

Alison: 

I just found it, so I'm pretty happy to have found it. It's kind of far away.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But my gosh. Yeah. Fermented stuff has. Has grown on me. No pun intended, but okay.

Alison: 

So we should move on to the bike one. I love bike photos. Yay. All right, so this is a photo. Photo of me. I'm trying to look like a model, and I'm sitting on a motorbike. It's like a scooter. And I'm sitting, like, on the edge of a beach, and out in the distance, you can see sort of like a planty beach. And then you've got, like, the beautiful crystal blue waters of the Gulf of Thailand. Like, I don't know how else to say that. I think living in Thailand, the reason I chose this picture is two reasons. One, Thailand, as well as all of Southeast Asia, is gorgeous, just beautiful. And there are so many places that are natural and untouched, certainly by foreigners, but just don't have a lot of people, they're not overly developed that are so beautiful and look like postcards. And you wonder, do those places actually exist? Or when you show up, will it just be covered in resorts? And are they waiting till all the people leave the beach to take that photo? No, there are places like this that exist that are empty and you can go driving around all day long on your motorbike and looking at empty beaches, and it's gorgeous. Yeah, I discovered that while living in Thailand, and I also discovered that I love driving motorbikes.

Steph:

Oh, I miss it so much. I haven't ridden in years, and I'm seriously in withdrawals.

Alison: 

So fun. I think it's. I mean, I'm sure it's dangerous and.

Steph:

See, and you're good because you have a helmet. I can see your helmet in the picture.

Alison: 

I. I always try to get a helmet, but you never know if these are real helmets or if they're just kind of, like, decorative.

Steph:

I did long stretches of no helmets, though.

Alison: 

I. I was very bad person. It's. It's not safe. But neither is driving without a license. And, hey, I don't have one, so. I know.

Steph:

Well, actually, in Taiwan, I went through the process to get a license, but I didn't. In Vietnam, I didn't. When I visited Thailand, like. Yeah. And again, I. We were talking about this before we started the call. I wouldn't. I'm really glad I did all of that earlier because I think now I finally reached that point where I'm like, I think I pass up on it or go back to the U.S. get my license. Then go back to what? No, I don't think I would do that either.

Alison: 

I mean, there's. There's the safety issue. And I absolutely would never condone driving without a license or driving without a helmet. How did you feel when you rode drives? Yeah, that's certainly an issue, too, but, like, I just love it. Yeah. I think it's so much fun, and I stay out of situations that I'm not capable of doing. Like, people with a lot of motorbike experience, they can drive through mud. They can. I will just avoid all of that. I want to be on a nice road. Like, nothing crazy.

Steph:

Not motor, because. Okay. What kind of bike is this? Is this like 50? This is bigger than 50cc. Is this like, 1?

Alison: 

I think probably 75 or 1. They usually are right around there.

Steph:

Did you ever see the documentaries, like, Long Way around or Long Way Down?

Alison: 

No. What's that?

Steph:

Ewan McGregor, the. The movie star?

Alison: 

If.

Steph:

Yeah, him and his friend who I never remember. Charlie something. They. Not on scooters. On motorbike. On motorcycles.

Alison: 

Like, hardcore motorcycles.

Steph:

Road, like, Long Way around, you can imagine, is like, this Way around the world and Long Way down is like. And I forget the countries they went to, but it's. And they took a crew with them and so they're showing you like each country that they're going through, they're showing you the shops as they're motorcycling through them. And it's, and they're funny. Ewan McGregor seems like a genuinely nice, funny person and the banter between the two of them is really fun and oh my God, it's just vicariously traveling the world on these guys bikes and some of the situations they get into, like the stuff in Russia is just crazy. You're just like, this is not really happening. You guys have staged this, right? No, no, no. Long way down, long way around.

Alison: 

Yeah, I wanna, I wanna see that. That stuff looks interesting to me. And I do love driving motorbikes, but I don't know anything about fixing them. So I'd be worried about doing a distance ride because I don't think, like I'm just, I'm still learning how to fix bicycles and taking long rides on a bicycle. So I'm worried about a motorbike because like, I guess in the Thai countryside there's always a house, there's always somebody that knows somebody that knows how to do things. But I don't, I guess I don't like to depend on the hospitality of like others. Like if my bike breaks down, what happens to me? Where do I sleep that night? I don't know. It's kind of creepy to me.

Steph:

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. I've only gone in group trips where somebody in the group knew what to do or where to go or how to fix a tire and how to check for this and that. Or with my husband who he had Minsk, which was really bizarrely popular in Vietnam. It's this like, it basically was like. Did you ever see, did they have these in Thailand?

Alison: 

Yeah, I think so.

Steph:

Okay.

Alison: 

Yeah, it's like in Vietnam perhaps.

Steph:

But yeah, for the, for the listeners, it's basically this, I think Russian agricultural vehicle that is like, it looks like a big clunky motorcycle.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

But it's like super old fashioned. So everything's done manually. So. So if it breaks, you can get in there and fix everything. And so he learned how to do that because most of his trips were on that with his friends who also had the Min Minsks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he knew how to fix stuff. So I would go with him.

Alison: 

But I did a bit of a mechanic.

Steph:

Yeah. Oh yeah. And he had this time that he had gotten to be like, do like manual labor kind of stuff. So he really, he dove in deep. He was like, you know, Teacher doing, like, teaching during the day and then getting his hands dirty at night, and he was. He was loving it.

Alison: 

That's exactly who it's for, I think. Yeah.

Steph:

Yeah, for sure. I was like, no, thanks. I want my 50cc, I think it was. And I just want to ride around until it breaks and then go rent a different one and whatever. I'm. I'm very. I don't even. I didn't even want gears. I'm like. I want.

Alison: 

Like, this is go.

Steph:

This is stuff.

Alison: 

I want to go up and down the coastline. Exactly. Back to. To, like, the main city. Yeah. I'm. I'm not. I'm not going anywhere. Crazy.

Steph:

No, no. I want the wind, I want the sun, and I want the scenery. Like, in this picture. I want to see stuff that's just gorgeous. I don't want to see people away from the main drag. I want to see people away from the tourists. I want to see. Not the tourist areas are bad, but I just. I want to see people in their daily life.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about Thailand is that most Thai people really don't want their skin to get darker. They kind of think the beauty ideal is, like, really light skin.

Steph:

Yep.

Alison: 

So all day long in the daytime, no one's outside. So you can go to a beach and I'm laying out trying to get a tan, and everyone else is avoiding the sun. Like, it's. Yes.

Steph:

Oh, yes. I used to wear tank tops in Taiwan when I first got there. All over, actually. I wore them the whole year. But the first few months, I would listen to people as they'd be like, hey, hey, hey. And they warned me, oh, man, you're gonna get dark. And I was like, I know, I'm so excited. And we were both confused. And of course, I had to ask my boss, and he's like, don't you now? I'm like, no, I just moved here, so, yeah, so it's. It was funny.

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Steph:

Okay. Okay. So that's all the pictures. And again, listeners, you can see them in the show notes. You can click on the links and see these for yourself. So I've got, like, little notes next to each one. Just like, I tried to put, like, one word from what you were talking about while you're describing it. And I've got posh politics, legal, wet boundaries, senses freedom.

Alison: 

That's pretty good.

Steph:

I don't know if that. Yeah, you didn't even say a lot of those things. I was just trying to kind of summarize some of the stuff you were saying. But I think.

Alison: 

I think that captures a lot. I think it's. When I moved there, I didn't. I had no. I didn't know anything about Asia. So looking at these pictures, I think it really brings back sort of a, first of all, a feeling of, like, awe and wonder. And my first time seeing, like, an extremely, extremely different way of life, a totally different culture, Eastern versus West. All of that stuff that people say is real. And I think seeing a different culture, learning all about. I learned so much that year. Like, I look at these pictures and I think I know things about that shrine behind me in Cambodia. I know why there are elephants there. I know what's going on. And. And even the people in the protest, I can tell you all about what, you know, what the news said about what they were marching for. And who was actually protesting against them at the same time. And I think I just learned a lot about how the world works. I think I learned to appreciate that my point of view is not superior, is not able to even comprehend some of these things. Looking in from the outside, even as an expat, I can sit there and see people pass by my condo and I'm untouched by what's going on for them in their country. And for them it's something very serious. Right. And so I think I learned a lot about what it is to be an expat.

Steph:

Sure. Now, we didn't talk about the exact. For all of those, the seven pictures. We didn't talk exactly about where they were in relation to each other. But they're all from the first year in Thailand, right?

Alison: 

Yeah, they're all from my first year in Thailand. Most of them are from places in Bangkok, in the capital, the beach pictures in Khanom, which is in the south of Thailand on the Gulf side. It's part of the country. Oh, it's near the city of Nakoni Tamarat, and sort of out of the way. It's not where. It's not a place that a lot of tourists go. So it looks a little different than some of the developed areas. And then Isan is the northeast part of the country, which I thought was important to go. I wish I had time to go more, but I. That was my one trip to that part of the country.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at one point you said there were things that you didn't want to get used to, but you did. Was there anything that you never got used to?

Alison: 

Yeah, I mean, it's not really portrayed in these pictures, but I'll just mention it briefly because it's also something I don't fully understand. There is a sex industry in Thailand. It absolutely exists. It is illegal. And I've got a lot of conflicting views on what goes on there. There's an image of like the expat, the Western expat that goes to Thailand to partake in that very real. You see it a lot.

Steph:

Sex.

Alison: 

One of. Yeah, like an older white man going to have a girlfriend, have a wife, have some kind of tryst with a younger Thai woman and. Or guy and. Or possibly young. Young. There are things that you see. That's certainly one thing that you would see often in the street. And you wonder if, is it transactional? Is it purely a business relationship? Is it equal? Is it. You know, on one hand, I want to be very sex positive and say that sex workers are workers. And in fact, a job they choose, then that's fine. On the other hand, I want to say there are economical factors that play into it. So did they have another viable choice? Not sure. I certainly heard both sides. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, the woman is getting out of it what she wants, and the guy is getting out of it what he wants. And anyway, yeah, it's something that's really, really complicated. It's not, you know, going into it, I think I had a viewpoint of like, ew, that's icky coming out of it. I think I see that there are some women that are having the upper hand in some of those situations, and good for them. They should take everything they can get if that's what they're going to do. Yeah, sure, sure. And, yeah, but it's. It's one of those things that I never was 100% comfortable with seeing. Right. And yeah, you do get used to it after a while. And, you know, I had friends that were older white guys. Like, what. What do you think you do? Like, that's. Who's there. I had friends that were young Thai girls that had an older boyfriend. Like.

Steph:

Right.

Alison: 

Foreigner boyfriend. So sometimes the dynamic seems normal and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, yeah. And it's just more prevalent there than what I had seen in the circles that I ran in in the United States.

Steph:

So, yeah, it's complicated. I've known, having lived in Northeast, Southeast and Northeast Asia for a while, and especially in Southeast Asia, I've met so many men, and I was just, you know, friends or at work or whatnot. And as soon as they'd say, my vacation in Thailand or my, I'm going back to, you know, I've got a girlfriend in Thailand.

Alison: 

And I was like, oh.

Steph:

Because all kinds.

Alison: 

It's.

Steph:

It's hard not to. Once you hear enough about the industry not to make assumptions and not to judge. And I'm like, stop judging. It could be completely legitimately be a romantic relationship.

Alison: 

Sure. Could be. But. But, yeah, probably. But it could be.

Steph:

Right, right, right, right.

Alison: 

The weird place you end up in. I recently had a friend's father.

Steph:

Ask.

Alison: 

Me questions about Thailand because he had a friend his age who was going there to be an English teacher. Friend happens to be very religious. I knew him from when I used to attend church.

Steph:

Okay.

Alison: 

I was honest. And I said, look, I think this is why your friend is going to Thailand, because I don't know anybody. 65 years old, retired, divorced, man that wants to see the world alone. If it doesn't involve companionship. Yeah. You know, and. And on one hand you gotta say, like, he's entitled to look for companionship if he can't find it. Who's. What's wrong with Thailand? I don't know. On the other hand, I just. There's an honesty level. If you say that's why you're going, then I understand. If you pretend you're going to start a new career, I just. I don't buy it.

Steph:

No. Especially since the pay in Thailand is so incredibly low for English teachers.

Alison: 

So it's.

Steph:

It's not like. It's not that everybody needs to save money all the time and live a lavish lifestyle, but it's. It's barely subsistence.

Alison: 

It's really, really low. It clearly has ulterior motives and pretend that that's not there is dishonest and just silly, Especially after having lived there and seeing how prevalent some of that is. For sure. I don't know who you're fooling, but, yeah, yeah, it's tough.

Steph:

It's tough. There's certain things that I've. I've experienced and seen and heard of in different countries, and some of them I've had to just go, okay, I'll never understand that, or I'll never get that, or I'll never really know why that has come to exist. But then there's plenty of that in my home country as well. Especially right now that I'm like, how did this happen?

Alison: 

So, yeah, I don't know if I should feel like I've never been put in that situation where I've had to consider that as an option. So I. It's. I'm just so far away from having thoughts about it that involve myself that I don't know how to feel about it. So.

Steph:

Sure. No, I. I completely, completely understand.

Alison: 

I'm not sure. I'm not sure what's the right thing to do.

Steph:

I mean, either. Me neither. It's compl. It's complicated. And of all the options that you mentioned before as to, like, why the women might be doing it, it might be a combination of a lot of them mixed together.

Alison: 

I mean, it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

Man, oh, man. Okay, so in the first year in Thailand, did you. Do you think you took more pictures than in the years after that or the same amount or less?

Alison: 

I think I took more pictures in my first year in Thailand because. Because everything was so new and different to me. A lot of you can't tell from the pictures I've shared here, but most of my Pictures are of food. So if you're hungry or if you're not hungry, feel free to like scroll my Instagram.

Steph:

Oh my God. Seriously, Listener listeners eat something and then go to Allison's Instagram feed and then drools a little more. But, but don't go hungry. It's dangerous. I've done it.

Alison: 

It's bad. I'm, I'm that person that's like, don't touch the food. I need to take the photo. For me, I, I really do it because I have a respect for the people that put time and effort into making the food and I have a respect for the people that put time and effort into providing that food for them. To make sure a lot of it takes years and years of practice. Even street food, it's usually somebody who's been at it for decades. And yeah, I have a lot of respect for it and so I appreciate what's going on. I want to take pictures of the food. So I took a lot of pictures because a lot of it was very new to me in my first year. Yeah. And then sort of I stayed there for another three and a half years in Thailand and did a lot of traveling throughout Asia. So I think as I got used to seeing things, they become normal to you and then you sort of stop taking pictures of the beautiful golden, shimmering temple because you've seen hundreds of them. Yeah, I think it fell off, but I think for my first year I was amazed at everything. And yeah, that's something that every expat understands I think is when you first go somewhere you notice all the little differences, even in the shopping mall, in the system, all the little differences that are interesting to you, what's allowed on the Metro and what isn't. Weird little things that are different. And I think that's part of why we like to move to new places is that have that educational experience with our eyes and every single day going out into something new.

Steph:

And thank goodness for digital photography now because when I had to do this with, with old fashioned film, it was excruciating. I had to really think, can I afford this photo? Is it worth developing? I'm really glad that decision does not need to exist anymore. Cause it was frustrating.

Alison: 

Yeah, I mean these, I have this phone and it's not the greatest phone, but I always, I always opt for my phone to be a better camera than it is a phone because I mostly just like taking photos. And yeah, it's really nice to just carry it around in your pocket. It's really cool technology.

Steph:

It's phenomenal.

Alison: 

Phenomenal.

Steph:

What kind of photos do you take now? Is it the same kind as what we're looking at here? Has it changed a lot?

Alison: 

So there's been a big shift for me. So I've now been living in Prague for about four months. I just moved to Central Europe after five years in Asia. And my pictures are taking a big shift from food photos to texture photos for. For two reasons. One, the food is not pretty here. Yeah, you know, it's like stuff on a plate. It's not colorful. It's all sort of like a gray, beige spectrum of color. It's good, but it's not pretty. So I don't do as many food photos here. And then also the food is very similar, I find, from country to country. So we've got potato dumplings in Czech Republic, in Poland, in Ukraine, in Russia. So those are all going to look quite similar. Whereas in Asia, going from country to country, every meal was quite unique.

Steph:

Right.

Alison: 

You could learn about it and take a photo of it. And it was very different. So what I'm finding here is a lot more mixture of architecture. Whereas in Asia, the architecture within the region or within the country I was in would be pretty similar city to city. Temples were all looking more or less with the same, you know, the same style of decoration and the same sort of building structure and things like that. Yeah. Whereas here in Europe there's been a lot more. I guess Prague is more of like a. What's the right word? Like, it's kind of like a spot in Central Europe where a lot of people passed through and there's been a lot of wars and there's been a lot of people from far reaches of the earth coming here and making a living and depositing some of their culture and taking some local culture away with them. And so I think architecture is a little more interesting here. Parts of Prague look like Paris, parts of Prague look like Vienna. Parts of Prague look like the English countryside. I don't know, it's very.

Steph:

It's different.

Alison: 

It's a totally different look than what I've been looking at for the past five years. And so I'm taking pictures of all of those eras of design and architecture and noticing them more.

Steph:

For sure. For sure. What. My first, like, weekend in Prague, I was walking around with this guy from the hostel who was a photographer, and he's like, here's what you need to do. And he's like, look at the tops of the buildings. Because the tops have, like, different statues.

Alison: 

Whether they be like Faces or people.

Steph:

Like full like bodies, bodies, statues or what have you. He's like the tops of the buildings had the coolest part of the whole building. Like it'd be a gorgeous building, but it's better at the top. And so I ended up walking around Prague just like this the whole time. Like, I'm gonna get run over, but damn that.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think it's cool. And there's like random modern buildings in the middle of historical areas that look really cool. And, you know, juxtaposition happens a lot more here. Yeah, yeah, I think it's cool.

Steph:

Very cool.

Alison: 

Very cool.

Steph:

Is there anything like looking through these seven photos, is there anything that surprises you about them?

Alison: 

Um, I guess, you know, like I said, I think I look at some of these and now they look very normal to me. I saw so many empty beaches after that first year. I saw so many wonderful food parts. I saw so many more song grand festivals and shrines and temples and protests. Yeah, I think they look a lot more normal, whereas at the time I thought they were sort of shocking and different.

Steph:

Well, they are different compared to where you came from before that.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's what it's about. That was what was new to me. And it's nice to look at them now and see sort of something familiar and comforting.

Steph:

Sure.

Alison: 

Because it means that I spent enough time there to feel at home. And they see, they see the food and they see the people and they see my street and it feels very familiar. And I like that.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

Holy. Prague will feel like that to me someday too.

Steph:

Oh, absolutely. I talked to somebody recently and they said that their photos are a direct reflection of how they're feeling at that moment. And is there anything in these photos that could give a glimpse of the emotional side of being a first year expat?

Alison: 

I think I left a lot behind when I left for Thailand in the States. I had a serious career. I was working a lot. I was spending almost all of my time in the office. Between the office and home, my friends and my social circle revolved around work and I think. And I had some like, family stuff going on. And when all of that was taken care of was when I was free to go to Thailand. And I think I see these pictures and I see like I'm smiling. I see, like you said, I see freedom of me on the motorbike. I see laughing and playing in the street drenched with water. Yeah. I see this sort of carefree feeling that for me is about. That's what I was feeling for my whole first year, I was feeling carefree, stress free, sort of a lot of potential going forward and. And feeling very free from the things that I left behind.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

And I think I can see it.

Steph:

Yeah. And it definitely looks like someone who's just. Who's really, really paying attention to what's happening around them, but really enjoying it. Like, that comes through loud and clear in these pictures. Is. This is interesting. This is interesting. This is interesting. Like kid in a candy store kind of thing.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah, I felt. I felt what I felt like I felt like a kid in a candy store. And did you have any culture shock.

Steph:

In Thailand at any point? Well, okay, you mentioned the kids, the kid, the. The child working on the streets.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think that's. That kind of thing never goes away. I think you have good days and bad days and good months and good years, and potentially you always have, like, a bad day. Yeah, some days you just, you know. You know, I spent a really long time and a concerted amount of effort to speak Thai, to read and write Thai. And, you know, four years later, I'll still try and order something at a restaurant and the waiter won't understand what I'm saying. And it's because I'm saying it wrong, because the tone is not correct, because though I've worked at it for years, I'm doing something wrong that day. And. And I think that never goes away. The frustration, that feeling of, like, why isn't this working? How. How long does it take until I'm 100% comfortable here? And the answer is, I'm not. I'm a foreigner and I'm an expat, and that may never happen. And that's part of living here. But the rest of the time, the majority of the time is lovely. So, yeah, I think I always had a little, Little feeling of culture shock. Some days I didn't want to come down out of my condo because I didn't relish the idea of going to the 711 and asking them not to give me a plastic bag and then going home with three plastic bags, you know? Yep. Always have that. That feeling like it's not quite going your way and you. And you know it's your fault, but you're not sure how to fix it. And so, yeah, I think that stayed with me.

Steph:

I think it's amazing that you realized that it was not your fault, but that it was your. Whatever you were bringing in that was causing the friction. Because for the, for the first few months in Taiwan, my first Asian country, I seriously Was like, you guys are all batshit crazy. This is clearly not me. That's the problem. You're clearly the problem, and here's how you need to fix this. And, oh, wait, I don't want to spend time on that. Never mind. I'm going to go back online and deal with people that are more interesting. Like, I was completely convinced they had it wrong.

Alison: 

Yeah. Some people say, like, oh, they're. They're pretending they don't understand me on purpose. And I understand that feeling, and it comes from a place of frustration.

Steph:

But, sure, that's not very likely.

Alison: 

99% of the time, they're not understanding you because you're not saying it correctly. You're not doing it correctly. There's something about what you're doing as a foreigner that they don't understand, truly. And. And I think that's important for foreigners to remember.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

That's something you have to get comfortable with.

Steph:

I'm much less judgy now. A few bazillion countries later, and I was like, I've traveled so much in Western Europe, you know, I've just. Yeah, no, it's really tough.

Alison: 

It's tough to admit that you're wrong. It's tough to admit that you're wrong. Four years later, still can't order. Like, it's. I mean, it's just. Yeah, it is.

Steph:

Yeah. Yeah. Some things get easier and some things just don't.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

So it's. It's really interesting that we're having this conversation while you're smack. Well, not smack dab in the middle. Almost in the middle of your first year in Prague.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

Is there anything from your experiences in that first year in Thailand that you're pulling over and kind of informing your first year in Prague with?

Alison: 

Yeah. So I think I. I'm much more forgiving to myself and to everyone around me with all of these situations. I know from Thailand that things can be frustrating, that visa situations can be frustrating. I'm in the middle of a weird visa situation now, waiting for my student visa for my master's program here in Prague. Mm. But I'm really. I've learned this. I don't know if it's a Thai attitude, but they've got a couple of sayings like my bandai and sabai sabai. And everything is just relax. Everything could be going wrong, but you just have to wait it out. And I think that that is helping me a lot. Yeah. This move. And I think it's something that all expats have to learn. But, yeah. I'm just sitting back and trying to enjoy the things that are going well and hoping the other things fix themselves. Yeah.

Steph:

Taking the long view. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy when you're new to a place to just kind of erupt or melt down or just kind of go, rah. Why isn't this working?

Alison: 

But to.

Steph:

To think this is just the beginning. Gonna be here for a while. Things will get sorted out. Generally speaking.

Alison: 

Yeah. That I've done things wrong. It's okay. That other people are not the quickest. Just let it all happen.

Steph:

Exactly. Especially the quickest part. Oh, my gosh. Impatient is. Impatience is definitely not an expat's best friend at all.

Alison: 

And it's funny because in the US things don't happen fast either.

Steph:

No.

Alison: 

Like, I think about the DMV or any kind of government office, like, that stuff doesn't work well in the us why did I expect it to work well anywhere else? I don't know. Right, right, right.

Steph:

No, me too. And I was like, well, it's so much more efficient.

Alison: 

No, it's not.

Steph:

What am I thinking? Yeah, just.

Alison: 

It is. It's a cultural thing because in the US we feel. We get this, like, feeling of indignance and we actually lash out and are rude to a lot of customer service people, and we get. Yell at people and we feel the customer is always right. And that doesn't work in other countries. So I think you lose that ability to take it out on somebody. And unfortunately, I don't think we should be doing as much in the U.S. but we do.

Steph:

Yeah. I've experienced it as a customer service rep, but I don't generally do that.

Alison: 

To people because it's just.

Steph:

It's still a person, and they're certainly not the ones who genuinely made the mistake in the first place. I definitely get frustrated, but I try not to lash out. It's so wrong. But I know what you mean. It's very easy, especially if you're sending, like, email correspondence or contacting on social media. There's a difference between there's a problem and you freaking did it to do, what the hell's happening here?

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. This right away, because I'm. I'm having issues because of it. Now I can't access this and that, and you're allowed to sort of get upset. Yeah. And, yeah, I've. I've completely lost that. It doesn't help anybody. Yeah. And in other places, it makes them worse. So, yeah, now I'm just really, really extra nice to everybody. Yeah.

Steph:

And there's definitely. Even though I didn't really do that very much in the US There's. I am more patient, and there's kind of a separation between this messed up situation that I'm trying to get through right now and that person who's probably a lovely person sitting in front of me who didn't create it. And I do. Like, I learned from my husband, he. He'll just start banter, like, how are you doing today? Are you having an okay day? Like, he'll just start talking to them like a person. I'm like, oh, my God, why have I never. Not to try to manipulate the situation, but just like, look, I know this isn't you. We're gonna get through this, and you're a person, so I'm gonna talk to you as a person while we're waiting for that to get worked out. And it's so beautiful. It's such a. Like, I seriously think he was a genius. The first few times I saw him do that, I was like, you're so human. I'll just stay in business mode and just be, like, trying to push through to get the transactions to work. And I'm like, oh, oh, we can be personable in this moment. Yeah.

Alison: 

Such a weird experience. So in the US A lot of times when you call, you'll get somebody on the phone in the Philippines. And I think about it too much until I went to the Philippines for a couple of months to stay there. And then when I was calling my bank back in the US and someone was picking up in, like, the middle of the night answering me, I knew they were in the same city as me. Like, I knew they were in Manila. I could tell from their accent. And I knew the buildings and the areas where they were working. And for some reason, it made me friendlier to them because I was like, oh, I. You're my neighbor now. You're not like a customer service agent across the world that doesn't understand my situation. Like, you're actually my neighbor. Yeah, it was kind of odd.

Steph:

So it's a beautiful thing because, like, part of the goal of this podcast is to show folks look at their stuff that happened the first year. And it's. Sometimes it's shocking and sometimes it's amazing. It's kind of more extreme, emotional roller coaster sometimes.

Alison: 

But.

Steph:

But there's so much that you can learn that you can apply even if you just go home straight after that year, or if you go to another country, stay in the same country. There's just so much accelerated Growth that can happen when you're overseas that you just can't get staying in one place.

Alison: 

Yeah. And I think you, you get comfortable somewhere and then some people like you get the itch, like you want to go somewhere new. Why? Because you get to have that feeling again where everything's new and you look around and you notice every tiny thing. And it's all very interesting and educational again. Yeah, it is cool. It was very cool.

Steph:

I'm definitely slowing down, but I love that, that first few weeks during that honeymoon period.

Alison: 

It's beautiful.

Steph:

Nothing can go wrong until it does. It's. It's so beautiful. I think, I think for me it was even more intoxicating than falling in love. It was just like places, cities. If I could date cities, I would have in my 20s and 30s.

Alison: 

Think about it like dating. And then if you get in a long term thing, it can last until you're kind of ready to move on. It's a lot like dating.

Steph:

It is a lot like dating. Yeah. There's a funny story I found randomly online one day that was like she was com. The woman was comparing the city she used to live in, which funny enough was San Francisco, as her, she called it her ex boyfriend because we had moved overseas and she had seen how, why she wanted to leave. After she left, she was like, this is why, because this and this and this wasn't working and I'm much happier here. So it's kind of like my ex boyfriend. Like I'll be tempted to go back with him because there's so much connection, but I don't really want to go back with him, you know, so there's this like push and pull, we can.

Alison: 

Say, but it's not good for you.

Steph:

And I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad she coined that because I have that experience with places.

Alison: 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think places, you know, life, relationships, they fit into a certain part of your life and when they're over, you're kind of like, oh, I'm so glad that's over. You know, like it's, it all makes sense. You're like, that was good for me at the time and it's never happening again. I think. Yeah, it's very similar.

EAKER 1

So my name is Allison Macheski Maczewski. However you want to go. I am an expat. Currently I live in Prague, Czech Republic, but I moved here from Thailand, and I was living in Thailand for about four and a half years. So I'm. Today I'm gonna go go through some of my old Instagrams about my first year living in Thailand to talk about what it's like to be an expat, you know, for the first time in a new country and. And some of the things that you go through. And I'm really excited to be. To be on the podcast today. So thanks.

Steph:

Thank you. All right. And if I remember correctly, the time frame of the pictures we're going to look at is like, end of 2013, early 2014.

Alison: 

Yeah, I left. I was living in the US in the Bay Area at the time, and. And I had a career job, and I quit my NGO career because I wanted to live abroad again. I did a study abroad in Spain back in 2004. I think I might be dating myself now. I was in college back then, and then I lived in Ireland for a year in 2010-2011, went back to the US for family reasons, and then went. When all of that cleared up, I wanted to go abroad again, and I decided on Thailand, and so I left end of, I think, October 2013. That started my first year living in Asia. Awesome.

Steph:

And for the listeners, just so you know, Allison is also going to make a guest appearance on the Virtual Expat podcast later on in this season, so stay tuned. She'll be over there in a few weeks. I'll probably add the date. They're all over the place. Thank you for that. All right, so let's dig in to the first photo, the pool photo. Why did you select this one?

Alison: 

When I first moved to Thailand, I. I guess I thought in my mind that I was going to be like. I guess when people think about Thailand, you think about backpacker style, you think about living cheaply, you think about, I don't know, sort of like this backpacking, no frills, minimalist vacation kind of thing. Yeah.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

And I'm not really that kind of person, so I don't know. When I got to Thailand, I was shocked because I realized that not everyone lives like that. Clearly it was a lesson for me that Thailand is a place where a lot of people live. Not just foreigners, but clearly a lot of Thai people live. And they live in a very modern city. Bangkok is like a huge Metropolis, has like 18 million people. It's just like an extremely modern place. It's not countryside, it's not like a. The whole city is not like some weird backpacking hostel place. So when I got there I, I was able to live in this lovely, lovely building. And it was and probably forever will be the nicest place I've ever lived. From my salary as a manager and ngo, I was able to go to Thailand and afford a beautiful modern condo high rise apartment. Sure had a rooftop pool on the sixth floor. And I was a little shocked when I arrived because I didn't know that my money would go that far. Yeah, when I started looking for apartments and my real estate agent was taking me to places like that, I didn't believe I could live there. Yeah.

Steph:

Do you remember how much it was?

Alison: 

Yeah, it was for. I moved with my girlfriend. So the two of us were paying together before. Utilities, less than $800 a month.

Steph:

One bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom, one bedroom apartment.

Alison: 

Just like, I mean like a regular one bedroom apartment. Pretty small. But we, we don't like a lot of space. And so we had that, we had a gym in the building, we had the pool, we had a beautiful lobby, security guards when we walked up, incredibly safe and right in the middle of downtown in Tong La, which is one of the coolest neighborhoods in Bangkok. So. So I was. Oh cool. I was happy. And I don't know if I'll ever live in a place like that again, but it was cool. It was cool while I was there.

Steph:

Let's quickly describe what's in the photo and for the listeners we're going to put the links in the show notes. So yeah, so we'll have that. But just in case you don't want to do that and you want to imagine it in your head. Allison, can you quickly describe what we're looking at here?

Alison: 

Yeah, so what? At the time I took this picture, I was sort of in awe. I was standing on one of those elliptical machines inside my gym's fitness room, which is like the tiny. Inside my condo's fitness room looking out onto a massive like 30 meter pool with like floating beds, like sunbeds in the water. Like on the right hand side of the pool there were like little cabanas to lay on. And then in the distance you can see part of downtown Bangkok. And then this is on the sixth floor rooftop. So you can just sort of see like all these trees and plants and it's kind of like a luscious fancy pants looking place that is, it is beautiful.

Steph:

Is abstinence. You do Want to go to the show notes? You don't have to because it's a bit. It's an audio thing. But you do want to take a look at this. Now, what is the. Okay, so can you read the caption real quick?

Alison: 

Yeah, I. It says first workout in my building's fitness. So that's the word they use for, like, an. An in condo gym. And I was learning that as I was looking around at condos, they were calling it the fitness zone.

Steph:

Oh, okay. Not the gym, not the rec center, not the sports center, but the fitness.

Alison: 

The fitness. Okay, yeah, gotcha. Cool, cool, cool.

Steph:

All right. And let's see the next protest one.

Alison: 

Yeah. The next picture is. It's an image of. So the main road in Bangkok is called Sukhumvit Road, and it is one of the largest roads in all of Southeast Asia. It goes across many countries. But it's also the main highway through Bangkok. Not highway. It's just the main drag. I would say within a couple of months, a couple of weeks after arriving in Bangkok, there started to be trouble. Basically, a lot of people were protesting in Bangkok. And in the picture, what you see is the road, just the main road just full of people. It's got, like, cars and flags, and there were people whistling and people with megaphones. And you mostly see Thai flags. And in the photo, you'll notice a lot of people are wearing yellow shirts. So it was a real introduction to Southeast Asian politics to understand what was going on in Thailand and to try and quickly educate myself about what these people were protesting about and what was going on in the country.

Steph:

Did you eventually feel unsafe as you were, like, taking pictures of this and seeing all of this go down, or did it just feel like.

Alison: 

So it didn't feel unsafe. In the picture. This is actually the BTS station. So above where I'm standing is from the sky train looking down, but on that right side is my building where I live.

Steph:

Oh, okay.

Alison: 

That's in front of my house, literally. Oh, wow. It didn't feel unsafe because the people were protesting peacefully. There were police around. But at the time, I don't think I was aware of, like, police corruption and things like that, but I felt it was generally safe until they started having random bombings throughout the city as that started to happen. And it was happening in public places like MBK Mall, like outside of CM Paragon, which is a very popular shopping mall where I used to go. Yeah. That's when I started looking into the history of what had gone on in Thailand in previous political Unrest situations. They had burned down an entire mall a couple years prior. Yeah. So when they started having these random bombings and they started talking about potentially another coup, I started to have to learn about the Thai history very quickly and. And consider what might happen to me. Should I stay? Would it be safe for me to be out and about my shopping? Things like that.

Steph:

Random question. Not random, but question about Thai politics. They have coups quite often, right?

Alison: 

Yes. I think they've had something like 11 or 12 successful coups in the history since they became a constitutional monarchy in the 30s, 1930s. Wow. Or before that. Yeah. So they. The military is incredibly involved in their politics. The government is usually considered to be sort of a populist government. The military is considered to be more loyal to the Thai royal family, as you may or may not know. They have a law called Le Majeste, which means within the country, you can't talk openly. Right. In public or to journalists about the royal family whatsoever, or you'll be thrown in jail. So there's. I learned a lot quickly about, you know, I wanted to learn a lot too, from Thai people, but there were things that they didn't want to talk about openly and certainly not with a foreigner. So I had to do a lot of online research, and I still have a lot of questions. It's very complicated. So. Yeah.

Steph:

Oh, sure. For sure.

Alison: 

For sure.

Steph:

Wow. And that was. That was a few months in after you moved there, right?

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. So these protesters are the yellow shirts. They would be loyal to the royal family, to the. They would be for the military junta that ended up king hold of the country and remains in power today. So this was back in December of 2013, and now we're in September 2018. The same military juntas in power in Thailand today.

Steph:

Just. Wow.

Alison: 

And nobody's voted since then. So that was interesting to see from an expat perspective because it was certainly happening right in front of me. But it's also concerning a lot of things that don't necessarily touch me and affect my life. Until the bombing started happening and I started wondering, should I leave? Right, right. Yeah. But I ended up staying. Things calmed down because of the military crackdown. That sounds horrible. But the violence sort of calmed down. And then I just sort of wanted to stay and understand what was going on more than. Yeah, more than anything. So.

Steph:

It'S bringing back a lot of memories. I wish it hadn't, but it is. It's amazing how similar and different experiences are. And so, so similar. Like when I was in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I was only there, I think, six months, and there were protests all the time, very peaceful. People just walking down the street with banners or just chanting something, very kind of quietly and peacefully and whatever. So. So I got used to those happening all around the city. This is when I traveled and lived overseas alone. When we moved to Malaysia a month after a few weeks. No, it was a week after we got married. There were. There was like a protest in this. Like we were staying at a hotel while we were looking for an apartment because we were moving there and. And we used to do it backwards where we'd move and then find jobs. We don't do that anymore, but anyways. Well, it depends on where you're going. But we've. We've done this now since 2003, and it's just. We needed to do something different after a while. But. And this is one of the reasons why, is because we moved there. We were in this hotel, we went across the street to the mall, and we were in the Starbucks and the, the crowds appeared. And I, coming from the context of.

Alison: 

Oh, it's probably just peaceful.

Steph:

They don't look like they're going to do anything. And my husband's like, hell, no. Because he came from Korea, where apparently things do get a little bit aggressive during their protests. And he's like, we're going back to the hotel. The second we got into the room, we saw the. The. The police had set off the.

Alison: 

What?

Steph:

You got the tear gas. And we saw the gas, like, going up from the mom. I was like, okay, so noted. Yeah.

Alison: 

Because on one hand, all of your life experience, like, especially as an. Is that this is a peaceful protest and the police are there to keep us safe.

Steph:

Great.

Alison: 

And all of that. And then you sort of have to not just reevaluate. I mean, that's obvious. But you have to get real comfortable with the idea that, like, the police in this country perhaps will shoot into a crowd of innocent people. Yeah. And the people will also fight back and have no regard for human life. And there's not this big protection for the freedom of speech.

Steph:

And you have to be really careful.

Alison: 

I mean, it's not a joke, for sure.

Steph:

For sure. And it's not like that doesn't happen in the US But I feel like because I'm a citizen, I would have more rights to fight back. Whereas in a foreign country, for me, I know I have absolutely no rights and my country is certainly not going to come and protect me if I get myself into a load of especially living there illegally. While I look for work that will be legal eventually. You know, it's just this whole, like, lily, what have I just done?

Alison: 

People think their embassy is there to help them, and the embassy is there to help you. But if you are doing something considered illegal in that country, such as participating in political protests. Exactly.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

You're to jail. Yes. There's something. The embassy. The embassy is not going to save you. They're not going to send you home. They're going to leave you in jail because you. Yeah, yeah. Deserve to live. Like that's what happened. You did something illegal. So it's. It's kind of scary.

Steph:

Yeah. To be fair, not to scare people, but to be fair, if you are dealt with in a way that doesn't make sense, if you're completely innocent or what have you and something happens, then your. Your embassy, chances are, will probably come to your rescue.

Alison: 

They'll step in. But I think you have to also learn the local laws and. And see what would really happen because your rights in your home country are not the same and.

Steph:

Exactly, Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. But, yeah, what a lesson to learn. All right, so then we're moving on to Cambodia. What's happening here?

Alison: 

Oh, yeah. So this is a picture of me in Cambodia when I first arrived in Thailand. I had. So I'm standing. I'm on the Cambodian border. I'm near a casino. So a spot that people often cross over and do something called a visa run. And a visa run is when you're. You're in my case, my visa exempt status, which gives me 30 days to be in Thailand, or I think at the time I had an extended tourist visa. So that might have been the end of 90 days. When that's up, you have to leave the country because you want to have a passport that's clean and doesn't have any overstaying or anything like that. So you leave the country, you walk across the border, you have lunch, soda, something like that, and then you get. You walk yourself back across the border, back into the country, get on a bus and go home. And it takes about entire day. It's not a pleasant trip, but some people do this for years and years on end, and I did it twice. And I realized that this is not for me and I'm going to figure out my legal status quickly and not have to worry about doing abuser runs anymore. But it was interesting to me to have my first trip to Cambodia be to step across the border and go back the same way.

Steph:

Right now you look like, you're smiling in the picture, though.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think I had fun. It was my first time going to Cambodia. I. I got on a bus with a bunch of strangers. A guy that was kind of like an older creepy guy.

Steph:

No.

Alison: 

Expat guy was on the bus and sort of befriended me. Yeah, I kind of chit. Chatted with him and maybe. I can't remember, we might have split a carton of cigarettes. We bought them in Cambodia, which. They're horrible quality. Anyway, we went across the border, bought some cigarettes, went to a casino, walked around, didn't. I didn't gamble because I wasn't interested, and then got back on the bus with all the same people and rode back to Bangkok. So there's it, like in front of a shrine. I think there's like a little elephant. And I think by that, by that time, I clearly had learned about how to why and do the nice bow in front of the temple with me and small. So I was trying to show off my good manners.

Steph:

I think having not known the context, I would have been like, oh, you were. You were in Cambodia that day. Like, it would be like, oh, you went. You went on vacation.

Alison: 

Looks like I'm on a fun trip. And people would be like, wow, that's so cool that you get to do that. And, you know, it's cool, but it's also an expense and it's also kind of a hassle and. Yeah. A good motivation to take care of your status.

Steph:

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All right, so then we're moving on to the group photo. Why can I not find it? Oh, this one looks like so much fun. So there's people in this photo, right?

Alison: 

Yeah. So this is actually a picture of my first Songkran. I guess this would have been in April.

Steph:

Okay, wait, your first what?

Alison: 

Songkran is the Thai New Year. And the New Year, there's like a giant water festival. People in the tourist areas. People think it's a water fight, but it's not really a fight. It's like, supposed to be about renewal and refreshing and washing everything clean. And so it's maybe similar to other Asian traditions where you clean off the house during New Year's and pick everything up, you wash everything nice and clean, put it all back, that kind of stuff. So I was. When I first got to Thailand, that's. So that's me, the one soaking wet with the tights on. That's my girlfriend on my back. The other two girls are. There's Beau, a Thai girl, and then Lisa, a Mexican lady. That they co. Own a restaurant in Bangkok called Tacos and Salsa, near and dear to my heart because I made friends with them because I love Mexican food, and then ended up managing the restaurant for a year and a half, so.

Steph:

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alison: 

It was a good. A good way to make friends. But there it was way before I worked at the restaurant.

Steph:

That's.

Alison: 

We went to the restaurant to go eat, and they decided to introduce us to the s. Grand tradition.

Steph:

Oh, no.

Alison: 

That includes dumping water on all kinds of people. It was just like. And you pour water on anybody, it's. There's no. There's no choice in it. You. You just do. Yeah. So you. You accept it kindly, and you do it to other people kindly, and it's really fun. So that's just us soaking wet and playing all day long at the restaurant. And the restaurant was soaked, drenched, and of course, it's very nice and clean after that.

Steph:

I was gonna say, because Bangkok is like a lot of Southeast Asia, very hot and humid. So then when you throw water on someone, like, you're just basically sticky all day then.

Alison: 

Right? I mean, it's kind of like a car wash. Like, you get ice in the water to make it extra cold. It's really shocking. Oh, and then in between that, they're throwing baby powder at you and sort of wiping it on your face. And then the cold water and then the powder kind of like all day long.

Steph:

What's the deal with the powder? Is that supposed to represent something or is that just a cruel trick?

Alison: 

It's definitely part of it. I wish I knew more about it, but there's always powder, and they're usually trying to rub it on your cheeks, and it kind of looks a little like the Burmese Tanakan, but I don't know if that's related, the little makeup that they put on in Burma.

Steph:

Okay, Okay.

Alison: 

I don't think it's related. I think it's just. I don't know, just put some powder on and then throw water on top. Kind of like blessing and New Year and things like that. Wow. I'm sure there's more to it. I wish I was more educated about why, but I just mostly play it every year, so.

Steph:

Yeah, no, that's.

Alison: 

That's.

Steph:

It's a really, really fun photo. My gosh.

Alison: 

And it was nice because it's not in the tourist area. It's just down in front of the rest. That's the restaurant on 18. So we're just down at the end of our soy. All the neighbors were shooting each other with hoses and running out with buckets and it was just nice.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had actually heard about the festival, but I didn't realize it was the cleansing bit. I. I didn't actually. I've never looked into the backstory, but that's very cool. That makes a lot of sense now that you've mentioned that.

Alison: 

That. Yeah, because that is prevalent a lot. And they similar festivals in all of the Southeast Asian countries. But. Yeah.

Steph:

Was that the first festival that you experienced in Thailand?

Alison: 

Yes. Yeah. And it's the biggest festival of the year. And it was super cool. I think I played. They call it playing water when you're like, up for it and you go outside and let people get you.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

So I think I played water for about two or three years until I sort of got like a bad attitude and didn't want to do it anyway. I would hide away in my apartment after that. So.

Steph:

So what. What month does that happen in? Is that January, February, or is it in April?

Alison: 

Oh, I think it's. Huh. Sweet.

Steph:

All right. And then we've got a little girl on the street.

Alison: 

Yeah, that's. So this is in Jang. This, what you're looking at is a large picture of a highway on the left, a bunch of taxis coming at me, and then in front of me, sort of like a walkway that's barriered off. And this is outside of the Don Mulang airport in Jang Watana area of Bangkok. This is. This is actually the location where if you don't want to deal with the taxi drivers that are trying to scam tourists and all that, you can walk out of the airport to a different. To the main road and then hop over the fence and catch a taxi without dealing with the weird price hikes, me coming home from some trip and going to grab a taxi. But it's also a picture of a child, a little girl, maybe about seven, with the parent. And they were clearly working together, the two of them picking up trash on the side of the road.

Steph:

Okay. The parents on the road. Right. And then there's the barrier, and then the child's on the sidewalk. Is that a sidewalk? Okay.

Alison: 

Yeah, it's like a sidewalk. So. And they've both got like, coverings on their face. So this is something that somebody who works outside all day in the sun will use to protect their skin. So they're clearly working and planning to be outside all day. Right. And I think this. I took a picture and you can't see any of their faces. So it's not an Attempt to sort of be like, oh, look at this. It's just me pointing out that there are things that I started to see and things that I started to get used to in my first year living in Southeast Asia that I didn't want to get used to. And one of those would be children working. I noticed a lot of construction sites that had a lot of children working at them. I noticed, like, all over Southeast Asia, and often at the time, I think the caption says, this is a little Thai girl. But now I look back at it years later, and I think this is probably not a Thai girl. It's probably a little girl from one of the neighboring countries. There are people from birth, Burma and Cambodia and Lao. Who go to Thailand for work, who go to Thailand attempting to gain refugee status. Right. And for a number of other reasons. And there is no refugee status in Thailand. So a lot of them work illegally. Live illegally. Yeah. And do whatever it is they can to survive because it's better than where they're coming from. And I think children working to help the family business is something that's very accepted in the West. We tend to put a number on that, like an age cap. Like, maybe they can start helping when they're 12 or when they're 14 or when they're 16. I didn't see that age cap a lot in Southeast Asia. So for me, it was kind of a reminder that even though I see this a lot and I see children working and, you know, at food stalls and in construction sites and here cleaning the road, it's. It's not something that I should get used to. Feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

It's also really interesting with the context that it's so close to an airport, which is kind of like a. A posh, exotic place that takes you all over the world. Right. And then you've got that situation right there.

Alison: 

Yeah. Just trying to. The adult is wearing, like, a vest. I don't know if you can zoom in on that, but it's just got the. The adult has on. I think it might have been the mother has on, like, reflective vest. So that's clearly their job. And the child is there with the parent at their job all day long outside in the sun and it's not nice weather, Right. Oh, yeah. I think that's. That's rough.

Steph:

I think it's. Yeah.

Alison: 

Oh, we'll get to that later. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

Oh, man, there's so much to think about with that. Okay, let's finish the descriptions, and then we'll come back to that one going food now. Sausage time. What's going on there?

Alison: 

Okay, so this next picture is from a trip I took to Nakhon Phnom in Isan, which is the north east region of Thailand. I took a trip to this city on the border of the Mekong river between Laos and Thailand. And it was my first trip to Isan. And this was some of the best street food I had. The picture is a bunch of coils of little sausages they're called. And the sausages are about like the size of a golf ball, maybe smaller. And they're all linked up together and they put them on these outdoor grills and they smell amazing and you can just. And they're super inexpensive. I think they were one baht per ball and that's, I mean, what is.

Steph:

It per bowl or per the ring of them?

Alison: 

One bot per ball. Okay, let me calculate it real fast. One divided by. What is that? Like almost less than 3 cents per ball.

Steph:

Oh my gosh.

Alison: 

Yeah, so you could just get a little string of 10 meatballs or sausages and then, and you get a little bag of like vegetables and chilies to eat with it and then you just like pop them in your mouth and walk around eating all day. It is so great.

Steph:

That this actually reminds me of Prague because I, I was backpacker chic when I was in Prague years and years and years and years and years ago. And there, I don't even remember which big kind of touristy area, street, it wasn't near the clock, but it was another area kind of near there. And there was a sausage guy just like a food stand and he had these amazing big like equivalent of $1 sausages. And that was like my breakfast and lunch every day. And then I'd eat something else in the evening. But that one sausage was so, so filling.

Alison: 

Yeah, you just find the thing that you really like and you go back for it every single day because.

Steph:

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So what was the most surprising? Like, do you remember what you were thinking? Were you thinking, I'm going to like this, I'm not going to like this or what?

Alison: 

I knew I would like it. There's, listen, there's not much I don't like. First of all, I will eat anything. And I like almost anything in Thai food is incredible. So this just reminds me of my first year because it was the. Every single thing I found on the streets of Thailand was delicious. And everywhere I went, to all the new regions of the country, I started finding that there were different Regional cuisines and, you know, with slightly different flavor. And I started to learn a little bit more of the complexity behind regional Thai food. And so I'm a former chef. I'm obsessed with food. I write for fnb. I do food writing now, and I. I just love food. I love to eat, and I think the food there is incredible. And yeah, this is definitely one of my favorite. I don't even know how to category. One of my favorite meats. I don't know. One of my favorite foods in all of Thailand is this saik rock. And I like spicy. So, yeah, they come with little green chilies. You just pop hole in your mouth and they're so good. But these. These specific sausages are made with fermented rice and mixed with pork. So they've got a real sour flavor and it's really, really nice.

Steph:

Love fermented rice.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

Love fermented rice. It's a fairly new thing for me. But seriously, I really wish I was on the fermented wagon 10, 15 years ago.

Alison: 

Yeah, I've tried to make fermented things, and I'm not good at it. So I leave it up to the experts. I buy it from them.

Steph:

Going to be trying to make a fermented cucumber thing soon. I finally got the jar, the perfect jar, and I'm. I'm gonna try it. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be awful.

Alison: 

But I hope it works out for you because I think you. I think it would be really like. You would just feel like a champion if you could come away with like a giant vat with something pickled and fermented. I've always gotten a giant vat of mold and had to duck it in. Oh, no.

Steph:

Oh, no.

Alison: 

I'm not good at that.

Steph:

We are even going to Japan, like next week, and that's where I. I ate. I. I'm sure it exists in multiple cultures, but the place I got addicted to it was in Japan. And we're going. But because it's a fermented thingy, it's all liquidy and stuff, and there's no way I'm gonna buy it and bring.

Alison: 

It back with me.

Steph:

So I have to eat it while I'm there, and then I have to learn how to make it. Because, no, we have tons of Japanese stores in Shanghai and nobody sells it.

Alison: 

They set it.

Steph:

Everything. I don't even know what it's called in Japanese. Honestly, I would just.

Alison: 

But it's kind of like a cucumber pickle thing.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You Know the daikon, like the. Because they have. They have kimchi too, but it's a much sweeter version of the Korean kimchi.

Alison: 

It's a little pink daikon that they stick next to, like, katsu curry rice.

Steph:

The.

Alison: 

The purpley one with the. The little strips. Oh, no, no, no.

Steph:

Okay, okay. Like, have you gone for, like, Korean barbecue? Yeah, the white stuff in strips that they give you at a side dish that. That cools your mouth.

Alison: 

Oh, yeah.

Steph:

That's not the cucumber. That's the daikon. So that. Yeah, That I love too, but that we have here, so I don't have to try to make that. Thank God. But the cucumbers are similar to that, but it's cucumbers instead of daikon. It's cucumbers instead of cabbage with kimchi. So it's a little bit spicy, it's got a little bit of a kick, but it's really sour. And it's got the crunch of a cucumber. It's so good.

Alison: 

It sounds good.

Steph:

It's really good. If there are any Japanese stores in Prague, which there probably are, check it out, see if they have.

Alison: 

Absolutely. There are not. Nah.

Steph:

I would send you some, but again, he's doing.

Alison: 

I just found it, so I'm pretty happy to have found it. It's kind of far away.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But my gosh. Yeah. Fermented stuff has. Has grown on me. No pun intended, but okay.

Alison: 

So we should move on to the bike one. I love bike photos. Yay. All right, so this is a photo. Photo of me. I'm trying to look like a model, and I'm sitting on a motorbike. It's like a scooter. And I'm sitting, like, on the edge of a beach, and out in the distance, you can see sort of like a planty beach. And then you've got, like, the beautiful crystal blue waters of the Gulf of Thailand. Like, I don't know how else to say that. I think living in Thailand, the reason I chose this picture is two reasons. One, Thailand, as well as all of Southeast Asia, is gorgeous, just beautiful. And there are so many places that are natural and untouched, certainly by foreigners, but just don't have a lot of people, they're not overly developed that are so beautiful and look like postcards. And you wonder, do those places actually exist? Or when you show up, will it just be covered in resorts? And are they waiting till all the people leave the beach to take that photo? No, there are places like this that exist that are empty and you can go driving around all day long on your motorbike and looking at empty beaches, and it's gorgeous. Yeah, I discovered that while living in Thailand, and I also discovered that I love driving motorbikes.

Steph:

Oh, I miss it so much. I haven't ridden in years, and I'm seriously in withdrawals.

Alison: 

So fun. I think it's. I mean, I'm sure it's dangerous and.

Steph:

See, and you're good because you have a helmet. I can see your helmet in the picture.

Alison: 

I. I always try to get a helmet, but you never know if these are real helmets or if they're just kind of, like, decorative.

Steph:

I did long stretches of no helmets, though.

Alison: 

I. I was very bad person. It's. It's not safe. But neither is driving without a license. And, hey, I don't have one, so. I know.

Steph:

Well, actually, in Taiwan, I went through the process to get a license, but I didn't. In Vietnam, I didn't. When I visited Thailand, like. Yeah. And again, I. We were talking about this before we started the call. I wouldn't. I'm really glad I did all of that earlier because I think now I finally reached that point where I'm like, I think I pass up on it or go back to the U.S. get my license. Then go back to what? No, I don't think I would do that either.

Alison: 

I mean, there's. There's the safety issue. And I absolutely would never condone driving without a license or driving without a helmet. How did you feel when you rode drives? Yeah, that's certainly an issue, too, but, like, I just love it. Yeah. I think it's so much fun, and I stay out of situations that I'm not capable of doing. Like, people with a lot of motorbike experience, they can drive through mud. They can. I will just avoid all of that. I want to be on a nice road. Like, nothing crazy.

Steph:

Not motor, because. Okay. What kind of bike is this? Is this like 50? This is bigger than 50cc. Is this like, 1?

Alison: 

I think probably 75 or 1. They usually are right around there.

Steph:

Did you ever see the documentaries, like, Long Way around or Long Way Down?

Alison: 

No. What's that?

Steph:

Ewan McGregor, the. The movie star?

Alison: 

If.

Steph:

Yeah, him and his friend who I never remember. Charlie something. They. Not on scooters. On motorbike. On motorcycles.

Alison: 

Like, hardcore motorcycles.

Steph:

Road, like, Long Way around, you can imagine, is like, this Way around the world and Long Way down is like. And I forget the countries they went to, but it's. And they took a crew with them and so they're showing you like each country that they're going through, they're showing you the shops as they're motorcycling through them. And it's, and they're funny. Ewan McGregor seems like a genuinely nice, funny person and the banter between the two of them is really fun and oh my God, it's just vicariously traveling the world on these guys bikes and some of the situations they get into, like the stuff in Russia is just crazy. You're just like, this is not really happening. You guys have staged this, right? No, no, no. Long way down, long way around.

Alison: 

Yeah, I wanna, I wanna see that. That stuff looks interesting to me. And I do love driving motorbikes, but I don't know anything about fixing them. So I'd be worried about doing a distance ride because I don't think, like I'm just, I'm still learning how to fix bicycles and taking long rides on a bicycle. So I'm worried about a motorbike because like, I guess in the Thai countryside there's always a house, there's always somebody that knows somebody that knows how to do things. But I don't, I guess I don't like to depend on the hospitality of like others. Like if my bike breaks down, what happens to me? Where do I sleep that night? I don't know. It's kind of creepy to me.

Steph:

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. I've only gone in group trips where somebody in the group knew what to do or where to go or how to fix a tire and how to check for this and that. Or with my husband who he had Minsk, which was really bizarrely popular in Vietnam. It's this like, it basically was like. Did you ever see, did they have these in Thailand?

Alison: 

Yeah, I think so.

Steph:

Okay.

Alison: 

Yeah, it's like in Vietnam perhaps.

Steph:

But yeah, for the, for the listeners, it's basically this, I think Russian agricultural vehicle that is like, it looks like a big clunky motorcycle.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

But it's like super old fashioned. So everything's done manually. So. So if it breaks, you can get in there and fix everything. And so he learned how to do that because most of his trips were on that with his friends who also had the Min Minsks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he knew how to fix stuff. So I would go with him.

Alison: 

But I did a bit of a mechanic.

Steph:

Yeah. Oh yeah. And he had this time that he had gotten to be like, do like manual labor kind of stuff. So he really, he dove in deep. He was like, you know, Teacher doing, like, teaching during the day and then getting his hands dirty at night, and he was. He was loving it.

Alison: 

That's exactly who it's for, I think. Yeah.

Steph:

Yeah, for sure. I was like, no, thanks. I want my 50cc, I think it was. And I just want to ride around until it breaks and then go rent a different one and whatever. I'm. I'm very. I don't even. I didn't even want gears. I'm like. I want.

Alison: 

Like, this is go.

Steph:

This is stuff.

Alison: 

I want to go up and down the coastline. Exactly. Back to. To, like, the main city. Yeah. I'm. I'm not. I'm not going anywhere. Crazy.

Steph:

No, no. I want the wind, I want the sun, and I want the scenery. Like, in this picture. I want to see stuff that's just gorgeous. I don't want to see people away from the main drag. I want to see people away from the tourists. I want to see. Not the tourist areas are bad, but I just. I want to see people in their daily life.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about Thailand is that most Thai people really don't want their skin to get darker. They kind of think the beauty ideal is, like, really light skin.

Steph:

Yep.

Alison: 

So all day long in the daytime, no one's outside. So you can go to a beach and I'm laying out trying to get a tan, and everyone else is avoiding the sun. Like, it's. Yes.

Steph:

Oh, yes. I used to wear tank tops in Taiwan when I first got there. All over, actually. I wore them the whole year. But the first few months, I would listen to people as they'd be like, hey, hey, hey. And they warned me, oh, man, you're gonna get dark. And I was like, I know, I'm so excited. And we were both confused. And of course, I had to ask my boss, and he's like, don't you now? I'm like, no, I just moved here, so, yeah, so it's. It was funny.

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Steph:

Okay. Okay. So that's all the pictures. And again, listeners, you can see them in the show notes. You can click on the links and see these for yourself. So I've got, like, little notes next to each one. Just like, I tried to put, like, one word from what you were talking about while you're describing it. And I've got posh politics, legal, wet boundaries, senses freedom.

Alison: 

That's pretty good.

Steph:

I don't know if that. Yeah, you didn't even say a lot of those things. I was just trying to kind of summarize some of the stuff you were saying. But I think.

Alison: 

I think that captures a lot. I think it's. When I moved there, I didn't. I had no. I didn't know anything about Asia. So looking at these pictures, I think it really brings back sort of a, first of all, a feeling of, like, awe and wonder. And my first time seeing, like, an extremely, extremely different way of life, a totally different culture, Eastern versus West. All of that stuff that people say is real. And I think seeing a different culture, learning all about. I learned so much that year. Like, I look at these pictures and I think I know things about that shrine behind me in Cambodia. I know why there are elephants there. I know what's going on. And. And even the people in the protest, I can tell you all about what, you know, what the news said about what they were marching for. And who was actually protesting against them at the same time. And I think I just learned a lot about how the world works. I think I learned to appreciate that my point of view is not superior, is not able to even comprehend some of these things. Looking in from the outside, even as an expat, I can sit there and see people pass by my condo and I'm untouched by what's going on for them in their country. And for them it's something very serious. Right. And so I think I learned a lot about what it is to be an expat.

Steph:

Sure. Now, we didn't talk about the exact. For all of those, the seven pictures. We didn't talk exactly about where they were in relation to each other. But they're all from the first year in Thailand, right?

Alison: 

Yeah, they're all from my first year in Thailand. Most of them are from places in Bangkok, in the capital, the beach pictures in Khanom, which is in the south of Thailand on the Gulf side. It's part of the country. Oh, it's near the city of Nakoni Tamarat, and sort of out of the way. It's not where. It's not a place that a lot of tourists go. So it looks a little different than some of the developed areas. And then Isan is the northeast part of the country, which I thought was important to go. I wish I had time to go more, but I. That was my one trip to that part of the country.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at one point you said there were things that you didn't want to get used to, but you did. Was there anything that you never got used to?

Alison: 

Yeah, I mean, it's not really portrayed in these pictures, but I'll just mention it briefly because it's also something I don't fully understand. There is a sex industry in Thailand. It absolutely exists. It is illegal. And I've got a lot of conflicting views on what goes on there. There's an image of like the expat, the Western expat that goes to Thailand to partake in that very real. You see it a lot.

Steph:

Sex.

Alison: 

One of. Yeah, like an older white man going to have a girlfriend, have a wife, have some kind of tryst with a younger Thai woman and. Or guy and. Or possibly young. Young. There are things that you see. That's certainly one thing that you would see often in the street. And you wonder if, is it transactional? Is it purely a business relationship? Is it equal? Is it. You know, on one hand, I want to be very sex positive and say that sex workers are workers. And in fact, a job they choose, then that's fine. On the other hand, I want to say there are economical factors that play into it. So did they have another viable choice? Not sure. I certainly heard both sides. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, the woman is getting out of it what she wants, and the guy is getting out of it what he wants. And anyway, yeah, it's something that's really, really complicated. It's not, you know, going into it, I think I had a viewpoint of like, ew, that's icky coming out of it. I think I see that there are some women that are having the upper hand in some of those situations, and good for them. They should take everything they can get if that's what they're going to do. Yeah, sure, sure. And, yeah, but it's. It's one of those things that I never was 100% comfortable with seeing. Right. And yeah, you do get used to it after a while. And, you know, I had friends that were older white guys. Like, what. What do you think you do? Like, that's. Who's there. I had friends that were young Thai girls that had an older boyfriend. Like.

Steph:

Right.

Alison: 

Foreigner boyfriend. So sometimes the dynamic seems normal and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, yeah. And it's just more prevalent there than what I had seen in the circles that I ran in in the United States.

Steph:

So, yeah, it's complicated. I've known, having lived in Northeast, Southeast and Northeast Asia for a while, and especially in Southeast Asia, I've met so many men, and I was just, you know, friends or at work or whatnot. And as soon as they'd say, my vacation in Thailand or my, I'm going back to, you know, I've got a girlfriend in Thailand.

Alison: 

And I was like, oh.

Steph:

Because all kinds.

Alison: 

It's.

Steph:

It's hard not to. Once you hear enough about the industry not to make assumptions and not to judge. And I'm like, stop judging. It could be completely legitimately be a romantic relationship.

Alison: 

Sure. Could be. But. But, yeah, probably. But it could be.

Steph:

Right, right, right, right.

Alison: 

The weird place you end up in. I recently had a friend's father.

Steph:

Ask.

Alison: 

Me questions about Thailand because he had a friend his age who was going there to be an English teacher. Friend happens to be very religious. I knew him from when I used to attend church.

Steph:

Okay.

Alison: 

I was honest. And I said, look, I think this is why your friend is going to Thailand, because I don't know anybody. 65 years old, retired, divorced, man that wants to see the world alone. If it doesn't involve companionship. Yeah. You know, and. And on one hand you gotta say, like, he's entitled to look for companionship if he can't find it. Who's. What's wrong with Thailand? I don't know. On the other hand, I just. There's an honesty level. If you say that's why you're going, then I understand. If you pretend you're going to start a new career, I just. I don't buy it.

Steph:

No. Especially since the pay in Thailand is so incredibly low for English teachers.

Alison: 

So it's.

Steph:

It's not like. It's not that everybody needs to save money all the time and live a lavish lifestyle, but it's. It's barely subsistence.

Alison: 

It's really, really low. It clearly has ulterior motives and pretend that that's not there is dishonest and just silly, Especially after having lived there and seeing how prevalent some of that is. For sure. I don't know who you're fooling, but, yeah, yeah, it's tough.

Steph:

It's tough. There's certain things that I've. I've experienced and seen and heard of in different countries, and some of them I've had to just go, okay, I'll never understand that, or I'll never get that, or I'll never really know why that has come to exist. But then there's plenty of that in my home country as well. Especially right now that I'm like, how did this happen?

Alison: 

So, yeah, I don't know if I should feel like I've never been put in that situation where I've had to consider that as an option. So I. It's. I'm just so far away from having thoughts about it that involve myself that I don't know how to feel about it. So.

Steph:

Sure. No, I. I completely, completely understand.

Alison: 

I'm not sure. I'm not sure what's the right thing to do.

Steph:

I mean, either. Me neither. It's compl. It's complicated. And of all the options that you mentioned before as to, like, why the women might be doing it, it might be a combination of a lot of them mixed together.

Alison: 

I mean, it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steph:

Man, oh, man. Okay, so in the first year in Thailand, did you. Do you think you took more pictures than in the years after that or the same amount or less?

Alison: 

I think I took more pictures in my first year in Thailand because. Because everything was so new and different to me. A lot of you can't tell from the pictures I've shared here, but most of my Pictures are of food. So if you're hungry or if you're not hungry, feel free to like scroll my Instagram.

Steph:

Oh my God. Seriously, Listener listeners eat something and then go to Allison's Instagram feed and then drools a little more. But, but don't go hungry. It's dangerous. I've done it.

Alison: 

It's bad. I'm, I'm that person that's like, don't touch the food. I need to take the photo. For me, I, I really do it because I have a respect for the people that put time and effort into making the food and I have a respect for the people that put time and effort into providing that food for them. To make sure a lot of it takes years and years of practice. Even street food, it's usually somebody who's been at it for decades. And yeah, I have a lot of respect for it and so I appreciate what's going on. I want to take pictures of the food. So I took a lot of pictures because a lot of it was very new to me in my first year. Yeah. And then sort of I stayed there for another three and a half years in Thailand and did a lot of traveling throughout Asia. So I think as I got used to seeing things, they become normal to you and then you sort of stop taking pictures of the beautiful golden, shimmering temple because you've seen hundreds of them. Yeah, I think it fell off, but I think for my first year I was amazed at everything. And yeah, that's something that every expat understands I think is when you first go somewhere you notice all the little differences, even in the shopping mall, in the system, all the little differences that are interesting to you, what's allowed on the Metro and what isn't. Weird little things that are different. And I think that's part of why we like to move to new places is that have that educational experience with our eyes and every single day going out into something new.

Steph:

And thank goodness for digital photography now because when I had to do this with, with old fashioned film, it was excruciating. I had to really think, can I afford this photo? Is it worth developing? I'm really glad that decision does not need to exist anymore. Cause it was frustrating.

Alison: 

Yeah, I mean these, I have this phone and it's not the greatest phone, but I always, I always opt for my phone to be a better camera than it is a phone because I mostly just like taking photos. And yeah, it's really nice to just carry it around in your pocket. It's really cool technology.

Steph:

It's phenomenal.

Alison: 

Phenomenal.

Steph:

What kind of photos do you take now? Is it the same kind as what we're looking at here? Has it changed a lot?

Alison: 

So there's been a big shift for me. So I've now been living in Prague for about four months. I just moved to Central Europe after five years in Asia. And my pictures are taking a big shift from food photos to texture photos for. For two reasons. One, the food is not pretty here. Yeah, you know, it's like stuff on a plate. It's not colorful. It's all sort of like a gray, beige spectrum of color. It's good, but it's not pretty. So I don't do as many food photos here. And then also the food is very similar, I find, from country to country. So we've got potato dumplings in Czech Republic, in Poland, in Ukraine, in Russia. So those are all going to look quite similar. Whereas in Asia, going from country to country, every meal was quite unique.

Steph:

Right.

Alison: 

You could learn about it and take a photo of it. And it was very different. So what I'm finding here is a lot more mixture of architecture. Whereas in Asia, the architecture within the region or within the country I was in would be pretty similar city to city. Temples were all looking more or less with the same, you know, the same style of decoration and the same sort of building structure and things like that. Yeah. Whereas here in Europe there's been a lot more. I guess Prague is more of like a. What's the right word? Like, it's kind of like a spot in Central Europe where a lot of people passed through and there's been a lot of wars and there's been a lot of people from far reaches of the earth coming here and making a living and depositing some of their culture and taking some local culture away with them. And so I think architecture is a little more interesting here. Parts of Prague look like Paris, parts of Prague look like Vienna. Parts of Prague look like the English countryside. I don't know, it's very.

Steph:

It's different.

Alison: 

It's a totally different look than what I've been looking at for the past five years. And so I'm taking pictures of all of those eras of design and architecture and noticing them more.

Steph:

For sure. For sure. What. My first, like, weekend in Prague, I was walking around with this guy from the hostel who was a photographer, and he's like, here's what you need to do. And he's like, look at the tops of the buildings. Because the tops have, like, different statues.

Alison: 

Whether they be like Faces or people.

Steph:

Like full like bodies, bodies, statues or what have you. He's like the tops of the buildings had the coolest part of the whole building. Like it'd be a gorgeous building, but it's better at the top. And so I ended up walking around Prague just like this the whole time. Like, I'm gonna get run over, but damn that.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think it's cool. And there's like random modern buildings in the middle of historical areas that look really cool. And, you know, juxtaposition happens a lot more here. Yeah, yeah, I think it's cool.

Steph:

Very cool.

Alison: 

Very cool.

Steph:

Is there anything like looking through these seven photos, is there anything that surprises you about them?

Alison: 

Um, I guess, you know, like I said, I think I look at some of these and now they look very normal to me. I saw so many empty beaches after that first year. I saw so many wonderful food parts. I saw so many more song grand festivals and shrines and temples and protests. Yeah, I think they look a lot more normal, whereas at the time I thought they were sort of shocking and different.

Steph:

Well, they are different compared to where you came from before that.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's what it's about. That was what was new to me. And it's nice to look at them now and see sort of something familiar and comforting.

Steph:

Sure.

Alison: 

Because it means that I spent enough time there to feel at home. And they see, they see the food and they see the people and they see my street and it feels very familiar. And I like that.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

Holy. Prague will feel like that to me someday too.

Steph:

Oh, absolutely. I talked to somebody recently and they said that their photos are a direct reflection of how they're feeling at that moment. And is there anything in these photos that could give a glimpse of the emotional side of being a first year expat?

Alison: 

I think I left a lot behind when I left for Thailand in the States. I had a serious career. I was working a lot. I was spending almost all of my time in the office. Between the office and home, my friends and my social circle revolved around work and I think. And I had some like, family stuff going on. And when all of that was taken care of was when I was free to go to Thailand. And I think I see these pictures and I see like I'm smiling. I see, like you said, I see freedom of me on the motorbike. I see laughing and playing in the street drenched with water. Yeah. I see this sort of carefree feeling that for me is about. That's what I was feeling for my whole first year, I was feeling carefree, stress free, sort of a lot of potential going forward and. And feeling very free from the things that I left behind.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

And I think I can see it.

Steph:

Yeah. And it definitely looks like someone who's just. Who's really, really paying attention to what's happening around them, but really enjoying it. Like, that comes through loud and clear in these pictures. Is. This is interesting. This is interesting. This is interesting. Like kid in a candy store kind of thing.

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah, I felt. I felt what I felt like I felt like a kid in a candy store. And did you have any culture shock.

Steph:

In Thailand at any point? Well, okay, you mentioned the kids, the kid, the. The child working on the streets.

Alison: 

Yeah, I think that's. That kind of thing never goes away. I think you have good days and bad days and good months and good years, and potentially you always have, like, a bad day. Yeah, some days you just, you know. You know, I spent a really long time and a concerted amount of effort to speak Thai, to read and write Thai. And, you know, four years later, I'll still try and order something at a restaurant and the waiter won't understand what I'm saying. And it's because I'm saying it wrong, because the tone is not correct, because though I've worked at it for years, I'm doing something wrong that day. And. And I think that never goes away. The frustration, that feeling of, like, why isn't this working? How. How long does it take until I'm 100% comfortable here? And the answer is, I'm not. I'm a foreigner and I'm an expat, and that may never happen. And that's part of living here. But the rest of the time, the majority of the time is lovely. So, yeah, I think I always had a little, Little feeling of culture shock. Some days I didn't want to come down out of my condo because I didn't relish the idea of going to the 711 and asking them not to give me a plastic bag and then going home with three plastic bags, you know? Yep. Always have that. That feeling like it's not quite going your way and you. And you know it's your fault, but you're not sure how to fix it. And so, yeah, I think that stayed with me.

Steph:

I think it's amazing that you realized that it was not your fault, but that it was your. Whatever you were bringing in that was causing the friction. Because for the, for the first few months in Taiwan, my first Asian country, I seriously Was like, you guys are all batshit crazy. This is clearly not me. That's the problem. You're clearly the problem, and here's how you need to fix this. And, oh, wait, I don't want to spend time on that. Never mind. I'm going to go back online and deal with people that are more interesting. Like, I was completely convinced they had it wrong.

Alison: 

Yeah. Some people say, like, oh, they're. They're pretending they don't understand me on purpose. And I understand that feeling, and it comes from a place of frustration.

Steph:

But, sure, that's not very likely.

Alison: 

99% of the time, they're not understanding you because you're not saying it correctly. You're not doing it correctly. There's something about what you're doing as a foreigner that they don't understand, truly. And. And I think that's important for foreigners to remember.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison: 

That's something you have to get comfortable with.

Steph:

I'm much less judgy now. A few bazillion countries later, and I was like, I've traveled so much in Western Europe, you know, I've just. Yeah, no, it's really tough.

Alison: 

It's tough to admit that you're wrong. It's tough to admit that you're wrong. Four years later, still can't order. Like, it's. I mean, it's just. Yeah, it is.

Steph:

Yeah. Yeah. Some things get easier and some things just don't.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

So it's. It's really interesting that we're having this conversation while you're smack. Well, not smack dab in the middle. Almost in the middle of your first year in Prague.

Alison: 

Yeah.

Steph:

Is there anything from your experiences in that first year in Thailand that you're pulling over and kind of informing your first year in Prague with?

Alison: 

Yeah. So I think I. I'm much more forgiving to myself and to everyone around me with all of these situations. I know from Thailand that things can be frustrating, that visa situations can be frustrating. I'm in the middle of a weird visa situation now, waiting for my student visa for my master's program here in Prague. Mm. But I'm really. I've learned this. I don't know if it's a Thai attitude, but they've got a couple of sayings like my bandai and sabai sabai. And everything is just relax. Everything could be going wrong, but you just have to wait it out. And I think that that is helping me a lot. Yeah. This move. And I think it's something that all expats have to learn. But, yeah. I'm just sitting back and trying to enjoy the things that are going well and hoping the other things fix themselves. Yeah.

Steph:

Taking the long view. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy when you're new to a place to just kind of erupt or melt down or just kind of go, rah. Why isn't this working?

Alison: 

But to.

Steph:

To think this is just the beginning. Gonna be here for a while. Things will get sorted out. Generally speaking.

Alison: 

Yeah. That I've done things wrong. It's okay. That other people are not the quickest. Just let it all happen.

Steph:

Exactly. Especially the quickest part. Oh, my gosh. Impatient is. Impatience is definitely not an expat's best friend at all.

Alison: 

And it's funny because in the US things don't happen fast either.

Steph:

No.

Alison: 

Like, I think about the DMV or any kind of government office, like, that stuff doesn't work well in the us why did I expect it to work well anywhere else? I don't know. Right, right, right.

Steph:

No, me too. And I was like, well, it's so much more efficient.

Alison: 

No, it's not.

Steph:

What am I thinking? Yeah, just.

Alison: 

It is. It's a cultural thing because in the US we feel. We get this, like, feeling of indignance and we actually lash out and are rude to a lot of customer service people, and we get. Yell at people and we feel the customer is always right. And that doesn't work in other countries. So I think you lose that ability to take it out on somebody. And unfortunately, I don't think we should be doing as much in the U.S. but we do.

Steph:

Yeah. I've experienced it as a customer service rep, but I don't generally do that.

Alison: 

To people because it's just.

Steph:

It's still a person, and they're certainly not the ones who genuinely made the mistake in the first place. I definitely get frustrated, but I try not to lash out. It's so wrong. But I know what you mean. It's very easy, especially if you're sending, like, email correspondence or contacting on social media. There's a difference between there's a problem and you freaking did it to do, what the hell's happening here?

Alison: 

Yeah, yeah. This right away, because I'm. I'm having issues because of it. Now I can't access this and that, and you're allowed to sort of get upset. Yeah. And, yeah, I've. I've completely lost that. It doesn't help anybody. Yeah. And in other places, it makes them worse. So, yeah, now I'm just really, really extra nice to everybody. Yeah.

Steph:

And there's definitely. Even though I didn't really do that very much in the US There's. I am more patient, and there's kind of a separation between this messed up situation that I'm trying to get through right now and that person who's probably a lovely person sitting in front of me who didn't create it. And I do. Like, I learned from my husband, he. He'll just start banter, like, how are you doing today? Are you having an okay day? Like, he'll just start talking to them like a person. I'm like, oh, my God, why have I never. Not to try to manipulate the situation, but just like, look, I know this isn't you. We're gonna get through this, and you're a person, so I'm gonna talk to you as a person while we're waiting for that to get worked out. And it's so beautiful. It's such a. Like, I seriously think he was a genius. The first few times I saw him do that, I was like, you're so human. I'll just stay in business mode and just be, like, trying to push through to get the transactions to work. And I'm like, oh, oh, we can be personable in this moment. Yeah.

Alison: 

Such a weird experience. So in the US A lot of times when you call, you'll get somebody on the phone in the Philippines. And I think about it too much until I went to the Philippines for a couple of months to stay there. And then when I was calling my bank back in the US and someone was picking up in, like, the middle of the night answering me, I knew they were in the same city as me. Like, I knew they were in Manila. I could tell from their accent. And I knew the buildings and the areas where they were working. And for some reason, it made me friendlier to them because I was like, oh, I. You're my neighbor now. You're not like a customer service agent across the world that doesn't understand my situation. Like, you're actually my neighbor. Yeah, it was kind of odd.

Steph:

So it's a beautiful thing because, like, part of the goal of this podcast is to show folks look at their stuff that happened the first year. And it's. Sometimes it's shocking and sometimes it's amazing. It's kind of more extreme, emotional roller coaster sometimes.

Alison: 

But.

Steph:

But there's so much that you can learn that you can apply even if you just go home straight after that year, or if you go to another country, stay in the same country. There's just so much accelerated Growth that can happen when you're overseas that you just can't get staying in one place.

Alison: 

Yeah. And I think you, you get comfortable somewhere and then some people like you get the itch, like you want to go somewhere new. Why? Because you get to have that feeling again where everything's new and you look around and you notice every tiny thing. And it's all very interesting and educational again. Yeah, it is cool. It was very cool.

Steph:

I'm definitely slowing down, but I love that, that first few weeks during that honeymoon period.

Alison: 

It's beautiful.

Steph:

Nothing can go wrong until it does. It's. It's so beautiful. I think, I think for me it was even more intoxicating than falling in love. It was just like places, cities. If I could date cities, I would have in my 20s and 30s.

Alison: 

Think about it like dating. And then if you get in a long term thing, it can last until you're kind of ready to move on. It's a lot like dating.

Steph:

It is a lot like dating. Yeah. There's a funny story I found randomly online one day that was like she was com. The woman was comparing the city she used to live in, which funny enough was San Francisco, as her, she called it her ex boyfriend because we had moved overseas and she had seen how, why she wanted to leave. After she left, she was like, this is why, because this and this and this wasn't working and I'm much happier here. So it's kind of like my ex boyfriend. Like I'll be tempted to go back with him because there's so much connection, but I don't really want to go back with him, you know, so there's this like push and pull, we can.

Alison: 

Say, but it's not good for you.

Steph:

And I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad she coined that because I have that experience with places.

Alison: 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think places, you know, life, relationships, they fit into a certain part of your life and when they're over, you're kind of like, oh, I'm so glad that's over. You know, like it's, it all makes sense. You're like, that was good for me at the time and it's never happening again. I think. Yeah, it's very similar.