Shannon:
Hi, my name is Shannon Martin and I'm from the US originally and I've lived in Shanghai, China for almost six years now. And this is from my blog, To who Travel. And it was written shortly after getting to China in 2012. So it's called the Ever-present Blank of China. 1. Little Red Stamp, or Official Chao. The Little Red Stamp marks all papers as legitimate and as highly prized. Show someone your official paperwork with the chop and you get happy, admiring responses. Paperwork and bureaucracy reign supreme and there are many careers built on protecting and managing the official company, agency, etc. stamp. The significance is such that the stamp forger was a lifesaver in one story I read about from the Cultural Revolution. It's one thing to forge papers to save a loved one, but without that chop skillfully crafted, it would be a failure. I most enjoy listening to the loud echo of the chop reverberating through the speaker from behind the glass as it's proudly slammed down on every paper at the bank. Two, bikes. Most vehicular traffic is of the two-wheeled variety. While cars have increased exponentially in the last several years in China, bikes and scooters still rule. Cities like Shanghai limit car traffic. I cannot begin to imagine the noise, congestion, and air quality they didn't. So you mainly see taxis, buses, and every form of two-wheeled or sometimes three-wheeled carts. Electric bikes are quite popular, whizzing by you without lights at night, beware. Bicycles, motorcycles, and scooters whiz by with babies and seats on the back. or more often simply sitting hugging the lap of a parent. A bike cart can carry furniture, an entire city blocks laundry, or 100 coolers. Bikes and even scooters are very reasonably priced, and I thought about getting one, but I don't think I'm daring enough, so sticking to walking for now. Sometimes I even put headphones on and have yet to get hit. 3. Commerce. The economic reform of the last many years here has taken hold with a pent up vengeance. Ads blanket the city from subway stops and constantly revolving elevator ads to LED built into the sides of skyscrapers. and a trip to our local eMart is an assault on the senses with products everywhere and numerous employees pitching the latest special from a headset mic. A trip to the fake market or any area with street stalls is an exercise in resistance. Don't look too closely or point at anything unless you really want to start the bargaining process. Just about everything that exists is for sale here depending on what you want to pay. I've read some articles recently commenting on the Chinese thriftiness that remains. Retailers are pinning hopes on the younger generation taking on more Western spending habits and being drawn into high prestige items. I find that a shame, but I guess it's good for all the high end stores around here, which are most often completely empty. I prefer the thriftiness and addictive thrill of bargaining. I thought I would hate it, but I must admit there's a certain feeling of winning that makes shopping much more exciting. Of course, I'm probably not the one who's winning. There's just a constant industriousness, busyness, here, the pulse of so many people in commerce. There are an overwhelming number of people working everywhere. On a trip to a local Watsons, like CVS or Walgreens in the US, but without the pharmacy, there are at least seven saleswomen working in a tiny store stationed at their particular areas. Uh-oh, lingered too long a little too long at the lotion display. Time for a sales pitch and demo. Number four, noise. Okay, this is one of those instances where my post should perhaps substitute Shanghai for China. I am sure there are peaceful rural villages with little noise, but that seems as foreign to me as China might if you're sitting on the other side of the world. There are brief moments of quiet. Generally, this is a pretty early city, by which I mean that at night things shut down fairly early, dinner is eaten before 8, etc. Of course, there are nightclubs and people that hang out late, but most of the peaceful times here are at night. There is even a brief period from about 12 to 4 where only intermittent horns are blowing. But I can still hear one or two if I don't have my earplugs firmly embedded. I read an article with mouth hanging open that said the police were cracking down on noise by doing things like finding elderly people who dance and sing at the subway stops and parks. What? There's a good idea, stop the healthy behavior and something that always makes me smile and let the horns keep blaring. But good luck doing anything about those horns. I have found a couple really odd quiet spots. One metro stop, which for some reason is often empty, and the high end malls and stores. This is not a good thing generally in Chinese thinking, where renao, essentially translating to hot and noisy, is sought out. The concept doesn't exactly translate literally, but the idea is that something bustling and often hot and noisy, chaotic to maybe my Western view, equates to exciting and desired. Number five, laundry. These pictures only begin to show the constant presence of laundry in our daily lives. This is the pictorial area of the blog, so you have to picture it in your mind. And last but not least, number six, cute. this is a dangerous one for me, as every day is an act of willpower not to buy the next adorable tchotchke. Everywhere you look, you find some adorable panda pig bunny hello Kitty something slippers, wallets, pajamas, hats, Etc. And I have in my blog a picture of a panda hat and gloves that I wear around. It was actually a gift, so not showing my lack of resistance. I also could not resist the cartoon pig coffee mug, which makes me smile every morning and the bunny pajamas Which in China double as shopping wear. Yes, adorable people of all ages, but mainly the older generation and sometimes young adult teenage girls wear their PJs out and about for all sorts of activities. And these are no yoga pants or sweat suits, but full on old school or fluffy pajamas. So far my favorites have been the fully quilted versions and the man in plaid pink silk. Even the dogs get in on the action with their little outfits and shoes to match.
Steph:
Thank you, Janet. I can relate so much to that post. It's ridiculous. Now, this was in 2012. How far into moving here did you write that particular post?
Shannon:
Just, I think, a couple months, because I remember there was a Christmas post after that. So, yeah, just very, very shortly, one of the first few posts. I mean, after being here long after I've noticed a lot of these things, but I'd say, yeah, two to three months, probably.
Steph:
Was that the first time you had.
Shannon:
Written about a lot of those? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, because I wrote another post about daily life, which covers some of this, which overlaps a little bit, and I think it came afterwards. So, yeah.
Steph:
It's almost identical in so many ways to so much of the things that hit me when I first moved to Taiwan in 2003. It was like, oh, there's this and this and this and this and this. And it all happens within the first six months. And then it's like, oh, that's normal now.
Shannon:
Right. Yeah, yeah, now I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Steph:
Because, yeah, that's daily life. after having read that, what is the thing that sticks out as the most different to your current day Shanghai existence?
Shannon:
Oh, gosh. A lot of it still exists, but little things about it have changed. You know what I did notice the other day is that laundry is not as pervasive anymore. I know they've done, like when there's been things going on, made people take it down. But I also live, I lived in the old city and I live more in the center of town now and not, it's not quite as residential. There are some lanes around where the laundry would be more internal, so I don't see it much, but the one thing that really strikes me most probably is about the chop. Still exists, the fapiao, it's still very important, but now so much more is being done electronically. So even the official fapiao, which those not in China is the official type of receipt you get, it's printed out on the old school printer, it has the red stamp. There are a lot of places now that are doing electronic ones. So I take DD, yeah, and DD sends it electronically for you type in your company name and stuff and I think Guagua, so some of the more fast casual kind of places that don't, I guess, have the time or the equipment to, yeah, they send to them. So such a big part of life, that paperwork and bureaucracy, but I think it's changing so rapidly, but yet they want to keep something of that officialness in. So it's like, what's the balance there and when will it change?
Steph:
Right, it's not going away by just changing for.
Shannon:
Yeah, and you still need to save all your papers always, you know, so it's, which is funny because you don't even see paper in daily life at all. We don't use any form of, you know, paper or plastic payment anymore. But yet if you have to do things with official bodies, you better have every paper since you came to China.
Steph:
So do people, because when I moved to Taiwan in 2003, I had to get a chop and everybody had a chop and they wouldn't accept signatures for anything. You had to have your chop with you whenever you did anything official. Do people use chops in China?
Shannon:
I don't think people do only organizations. So like the company has one and the, all that kind of stuff. But then, which is also funny about signatures because I have a very messy signature. yeah. And a lot of times in the west or in the US, people would kind of eye me funny or I've even had it sort of rejected a couple times, even though it matches with my face. But here, because they're doing characters and we're doing, you know, our, you know, Western, our Roman alphabet, they don't, it doesn't, they don't hesitate. And actually, my husband does, has been known to sign receipts at restaurants and stuff with smiley faces and like, you know, Mickey Mouse and all that kind of stuff. And they, they look at it and just laugh. I mean, they actually do see it.
Steph:
And they don't, they don't reject it. That's hilarious. I did notice people doing that last time I was in the US. I noticed, you know, on those electronic payment pad, they were like an iPad kind of thing that people would pay with. I don't even know what they were called, but I did notice some people were putting in smiley faces and different facial features instead of their official signature.
Shannon:
Okay.
Steph:
So I wonder if that's turned into.
Shannon:
A thing in more than one place.
Steph:
I don't know. Like, I saw people doing it in a coffee shop in front of me and went, oh, that's not a signature. And then, well, does it matter?
Shannon:
It's coming out of their account. Yeah. If it's debit or something, and that's why I think here it doesn't matter. that's a whole other thing about us and it's weird payment. Well, yeah, because we're holding on to.
Steph:
The signature like they're holding on to the Fabio kind of, I guess.
Shannon:
Yeah. I mean, us is one of the few places that doesn't get, like, chip and pin and still a whole 100. So it's very insecure still. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, here, I mean, it's most. For the most part, when you get a debit card at the bank here, it doesn't even have a name on it. Yeah. It's just a long, long string of numbers. So that was true. Yeah. That was another interesting experience. My husband lost his when he first got here and went back, yeah, it went back to, and when they issued it to him, he got his name on it. And people are always like, Ooh, when we see his debit cards, they used to be really impressed. Like he must be a VIP. Yeah. To have his name on the card.
Steph:
Oh my gosh. Left my ATM card in an ATM machine in Hangzhou and came back to Shanghai and realized it. Called the bank and tried to have them send it up here and they're like, We can't touch it. Somebody will take it out of the machine and tear it up, but that's legally, that's what we're able to do. Went to the bank in Shanghai and they're like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll get you a new one. It'll take about 10 business days. And I'm like, okay, I just gotten paid like two days before.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
I was like, okay, so I need.
Shannon:
To get this amount of money out.
Steph:
Because I can't access my money after this.
Shannon:
And they're like, oh no, we've already.
Steph:
Closed for the day. You can get more deposits, but you.
Shannon:
Can'T take anything out.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
Yeah. Like what? Could you have told me that before.
Steph:
We just froze my account? Yeah, I'm surprised it took 10 days? Was it a holiday or anything? Well, when they told me that part, I basically imploded on them and was like, what do you expect me to do in Shanghai without money for 10 days over? Which is two weeks, basically. Two business weeks. And so they actually sped it up, and it was only one week.
Shannon:
Okay. Because when we had the same thing, when my husband lost his, it was, it took about that long, but it was National Holiday. Yeah. So, I mean, we had a double whammy of just arriving. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And then, you know, having that, I mean, so we We wanted to spend money that we had made, but we ended up having to just take money out from our U.S. It's crazy.
Steph:
Cause I'm sitting there with all of my documentation. Cause I actually went to the bank to transfer and then get my new card. And I had absolutely every paper that I have in China.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
And they're like, well, no, you can't get money out of your account. You need your card. Like, I was non-person to take out a card. Yeah, it was amazing. It was really crazy. So I'm never, never leaving that thing anymore. No, no, that's almost as important as my cell phone. Why did you initially start the blog?
Shannon:
I started it a couple of years before this entry, and when we first went traveling, I'll say. So we left home, which was Florida in the US, and went, and my husband took a sabbatical, and I started working location independently. And so I wanted to sort of document stuff for family and friends. So looking back now, I was disappointed in myself because I don't do it really at all anymore. And at that time, I really documented all the places we went and all my observations, and it was really fun looking back on it.
Steph:
When we were talking about setting this up, you had mentioned that you document it in different way kind of online.
Shannon:
Yeah, so I mean that's, I guess with the advent or more common commonality of social media, I always put pictures when we travel. And that's the first thing I do because it's just straight from my mobile phone. It's just easy. You're not going to like sit there with your laptop and blog. Well, some people do, but, and so once I've done that, I feel like, okay, people, they've seen it. They know, you know, and I don't make much in terms of like verbal observations, more just pictures, but I'm like, okay, it's already up. And especially when it was getting to be a lot more of places we traveled and it was very photo heavy blog posts. So it just took and especially here, it took a lot of time to upload thanks to our general slow internet. So it just became, yeah, easier. I mainly, I'm just putting photos on Facebook and stuff, but I still, yeah, I still miss it because I like the posts like this that are more about thoughts and reflection. I do, you know, I would like to go back and do more of that. Yeah.
Steph:
If it helps at all, Instagram and Twitter have expanded the amount of stuff you can write with.
Shannon:
Yes. Yeah. I noticed that recently.
Steph:
I was really addicted to Twitter and they locked me out twice this year already. I don't know what happened. It was probably some sort of privacy breach or what have you, but I ended up using Instagram and people write entire, like, poems and, like, paragraph essays and it gets long in there. And I was like, oh, freedom to write more. And I noticed my posts are getting longer. So I don't know if that's a intermediary form of expression you might.
Shannon:
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. It's not the same as a long form. No, and I mean, and my main excuse for it, and I don't know if it's an excuse or what, but is that, I mean, my main work is blogging and writing online. So I do a lot of it and I really believe in the medium on that. But, you know, it's the first thing that goes by the wayside. though.
Steph:
I understand that.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
How long did the blog live on for?
Shannon:
I mean, I technically posted some things. I don't know what the last one was, but I posted some things in the last probably year or so. So this is still up. So it's still going, let's say.
Steph:
Okay. So you could resurrect it.
Shannon:
Yes.
Steph:
Yeah. You said you guys moved from Florida to Shanghai indirectly.
Shannon:
We actually moved from Spain, really. But so we took that sabbatical. We first went a few months. then we went back for a longer trip to Spain and then decided to make the move here while we were living in Spain. So we took a brief sojourn back to the US. My mom was ill, so that was the big, big reason. And then we actually sold all of our stuff in the house. I mean, technically, we sold a house and moved from Florida, but we hadn't been living there. Right.
Steph:
For almost a year.
Shannon:
Right. Right. Do you know the podcast workationing? Yes. Okay.
Steph:
I'm not caught up on it, but I listened to the first. No, no, no, no, no. Many. I just discovered them a month ago, and I did like 20 within a short period of time. And they just, but they did something similar where they put stuff in storage and then they went back and just.
Shannon:
Ended up getting rid of it. Yeah, I've known a lot of people that have done that. And actually talking to a lot of people here, I tell my story and I've quote unquote inspired several people to go back and say, I had a friend who had lived, she had been in Hong Kong, in Singapore, she'd been gone for 15 years or something from the year, like basically her entire adult life in the past, but she had a storage unit and she was like, there were times when I was younger when it was like between that and like going out for, a dinner. And she's like, now, you know, she had advanced enough in her career that she wasn't living paycheck to paycheck. But it's sometimes like that was really that price of that thing was really holding her back. And so she went back and sold all of it. And she said there were some paintings that she had in mind as the reason she had to keep it. And she went back and she was like, I didn't even really want the things that were the whole reason I was keeping it. So why do you think we do that? It's so hard to get rid of everything. I think it's really tough. And I think for us, that was why, and the same as what the work station and gals did. I think we, we went one time and we, we rented our place both times that we went. So we had, we downsized a lot and basically moved things into just a couple closets. I mean, we had four bedrooms. We're just a couple. We don't have kids. So I had stuff in, like, six closets. I had way too much stuff. So we downsized a lot. And then I was really, like, on board with that and more and more as we did it, but. My husband in particular, I think there were some comfort things. He loved his big comfy chair and his big TV. First place we stayed in Spain, it had no couch at all. We basically had a dining room and beds. And it had this tiny old black and white 10-inch TV. And we had the greatest time of our lives. And he was like, I didn't miss having a big screen TV and sitting in my chair at all. So doing it all at once when you've never like downsized before it can be quite, you know, yeah.
Steph:
I actually moved across the US from, from Pennsylvania to California in my early 20s, and I had three gigantic boxes, like, we're talking like four feet tall kind of boxes worth of stuff that I put in there, had a friend hold, and then I had two suitcases that I brought with me. And by the time she sent the boxes to me within, like, I think six or seven months, I opened them up, and there were maybe two things that I wanted. And the rest of it, I'm like, why did I pack this? And so I, I slowly, over the years, like, got rid of that stuff. And by the time I started living overseas, I didn't have much anymore because I had already done that big transition. But yeah, it's hard to get rid of all of it at once.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Get attached to our stuff. Even just staying in a place for like two or three years, I noticed that we start to accumulate more.
Shannon:
I have accumulated way too much. We're thinking of moving on, you know, in the near future. And I started, I even went through just bags of Stuff I save from trips and flyers and things. Yeah. I basically took pictures of a couple things and I enjoyed the moments of just looking through them. And that's kind of why I save them because I never intend to keep them forever. Right. But I went through and I was like, I remember this trip, I remember that trip. But you can really do that all with photos. And then I tossed it all on. So, yeah, I've got to start that process soon.
Steph:
But so easy to accumulate. Do you have one thing that you'll never ever throw out? I, for some reason, keep ID cards. and I have a little bag of all of my library cards and all of his licenses and national ID cards and like all of those things from the US and from other countries. I know I could take pictures of them. They're just pictures. They're just plastic cards. But for some reason, that's always in my carry-on it's never even in the suitcase because I don't want it to get lost.
Shannon:
At least it's small.
Steph:
It is small, but it's getting bigger with each country.
Shannon:
I don't really think I have anything like that. Um, I have a couple things of jewelry and like an engagement ring and some things for my mom. So a couple of those things. And then, I mean, I always loved to have books, but I have them on a Kindle now. So, I mean, the other thing would be electronic stuff, you know, but that's like, so it's a hard drive, and that's the stuff I write, you know, all my records and all that. So really, that's like, I could. I could be fine. Yeah. Just that and my couple pieces of jewelry.
Steph:
So why did you pick this entry out of all the ones that you had?
Shannon:
There was this and another one about daily life of China that I thought encapsulated a lot of it and also encapsulated the, like the, as you mentioned, the observations you have, especially, you know, after a short time of being somewhere and you, you just notice these certain things that you see all the time or that, you know, are just more ubiquitous in daily life than maybe what you expected or what you've experienced in the past. And when I looked back on it, I was like, wow, it's all things have changed, but there's nothing in it. It's mm-. Totally gone in the years I've been here. So.
Steph:
Which is amazing considering how fast things do change here.
Shannon:
Yeah. And it's just the form has changed. So like we talked about the little red stamp and then bikes. I talked about buying a bike here. Well, of course I never bought a bike and within a couple of years they had Mobic and Ofo, which are bike sharing systems, which are everywhere. And so I'm glad I didn't have a bike to walk around because I just do that. And that has changed because the way it looks when you walk around Shanghai.
Steph:
Would be so different than what it was then.
Shannon:
So under the bridge. Different. now uniform looking bikes everywhere. Yeah.
Steph:
So back then, this isn't that long ago. This is 2012 that you're talking about. So there were, there were obviously none of the shared bikes, but there were other people's bikes.
Shannon:
Yeah. People just had their private, a lot of private bikes. A lot of the old ones that you see. Yeah. So bikes and those bike carts, which still are around a lot, the scooters, I think that, I mean, I thought the scooters were bad then or pervasive, but I mean, the delivery food scooters, it's, it's. exponentially. So I would love to put myself back there and go, wait a minute, these scooters aren't so bad because now you just can't walk on the sidewalk without almost getting mowed down, especially if it's lunchtime or new. So that's really ground.
Steph:
Yeah, we lived in Ninjng eight years ago, and the electric scooters were super popular, and you couldn't hear them. You just couldn't hear them. And they were on the sidewalk, and they didn't care what was in front of them. Yeah, so you really had to have like the Spidey sense. The Spider-Man sense of somebody's behind me, I better move before they literally just crash into me. Cause it was so quiet and I was like, okay, touché for making quiet transportation, but I think we need to put some noise back in it.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Cause if you're gonna ride on the.
Shannon:
Sidewalk with pedestrians, we need to know you're coming. And that's, they're the ones that still are able to get away with honking. Cause I did reference in here, oh, I referenced in here about the noise and the honking. And it's funny because I said, they'll never be able to do anything about the horns. And I underestimated China because they did put a law into place and they started fining people like a serious fine. And that's always what it takes, like making the fine high enough. Same thing happened with smoking. They tried it once, but they weren't fining people enough. And then when they finally made the businesses have a fine too. So now the car horns are really gone and you don't realize it until you think back how you used to be constant. Where I live is extremely busy. It's a very busy road. still hear a lot of horns because it's a scooter passageway, but only the scooters get away with that. So it's, yeah, it's a lot less noisy.
Steph:
Trying to think back to 1990, I don't remember car horns, but we had been in Vietnam slightly before that, so I don't think it even would have registered for me. Because it's just like a constant people have their finger on the horn at all times kind of sound, so I don't know that it would have registered. Just in 2012, people were using their card horns that all the time.
Shannon:
And I remember I read, I think it was a Peter Hessler book that talks about it. And my husband and I were having the discussion and he was just like, ah, these horns. And I said, you know, how he describes it is that it's a culture of like walking and biking where you kind of, you know, might yell out to someone or use verbal cues, right? So they're using the horn in that way. It's like, Hey, I'm coming. And you do hear that when people use it, it's like, Hey, I'm coming. It's not road rage. Like sometimes she would have the us where it's like, get out of my way. it's just, here I come, like scooters do. Yeah. And it's amazing that they were able to take that away and just now it's just the scooters, but I think there's more the delivery guy scooters particularly, and they're the ones that like they're always in a rush so they're always beeping at everybody on the sidewalk. So it's still kind of so noisy.
Steph:
I have to say I'd rather have them beep than have the electronic ones that didn't make any sense. Yeah, I had to pick between the.
Shannon:
Two, which is a false choice, but there it is. It's true. Yeah. And I did, I think I said in here something like I walk and I sometimes dare to walk with headphones and, and I still do that. And, but I did get hit once by a squeaker.
Steph:
Yep, me too. So with one of the silent electronic messages.
Shannon:
Yeah, I had one, mine was coming out of a lane and I was on the sidewalk and I, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Steph:
I was going straight. He was turning. You mentioned something about winning with shopping. Can you dive into that somewhere?
Shannon:
Negotiating. Oh, yeah.
Steph:
So it wasn't just purchasing something or getting.
Shannon:
No, negotiating and, I think, and also it probably comes into play a little bit with things where you ask a price and there's always, I've heard this thing here called people will say laowai tax. And that means like as a foreigner you pay more. So another way that I would say the winning comes into place is like if I do get just a general good deal or just like go somewhere where the price is decent. Yeah. You know, I'm always so proud. Or like our apartment rental. And of course here it's not, there's nothing wrong with asking someone what they pay. So people, Chinese friends wanted to ask like, what do you pay? And whenever they're like, oh, that's pretty good. Or my gym contract.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
These are negotiations, I guess, because they're all negotiable. But I'll tell somebody, so what do you think is the, you know, I paid this much for this many months. And if you, if they're like, oh, that's actually better than what I paid, then you feel proud.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
And negotiating. Yeah. But especially not too long after I got here going to like the fake marketplaces or the little street vendors and stuff, I, I, I got a thrill out of it. And other people are like, I absolutely hate it. And I was like, I know, but, you know, there's something that I'm thriving on for some reason. Because I'm not a big fan of.
Steph:
Shopping in general, so it made it kind of a game. Me too. I'd rather do a million other things other than go shopping for anything.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
No, that's not true. Food and stationery are probably the two exceptions.
Shannon:
Yeah. For me, food and books. Yeah.
Steph:
So yeah, so I hate shopping. So yeah, but bartering does have its thing, especially when you know you're going to a place where it's all fluid.
Shannon:
Right. Right.
Steph:
Then it's sort of like this. Let's see what I can do. And the walk away.
Shannon:
Yes.
Steph:
You know, the walk away is just once you get that down, it's like, I am truly a global citizen now.
Shannon:
My favorite technique used to be having an actual amount of cash. Yeah. For something like, I only want to pay 100. Having it and being like, well, I can't go to up to 120 because I only have this. Now it's completely ruined because they all, every single place has a QR code for you to pay with Alipay and WeChat. Now, you could pretend that you're just from America and you're visiting and you don't have that, I guess. But I'm not smart enough to do that. I still try to. I still. I'm like, no, I'm just not to pay more. And they used to try to, here, you can, I can take you to the ATMs. And they always were trying to find a way, but I'd be like, no.
Steph:
This is the amount I have. And that's what's getting spent. And, and knowing me, if I would.
Shannon:
Sit there and say, oh, I don't have a phone. I don't have a phone. It would go off as I'm paying them with the money. And then you open it up and then see the app that you said you didn't have. Exactly. Usually don't, don't worry about that part. But yeah, that was one of my techniques that's kind of gone, by the way, side, because I don't know if.
Steph:
You'Ve seen this, but even the guys on the street that are asking for money, they have a QR code.
Shannon:
Mm-. So you don't even need change to give them anymore. You can scan them and give them a donation.
Steph:
Yeah, they should everybody. Everybody. I love the, and I've seen this in some YouTube videos too, people doing stuff from Shanghai is there's one coffee shop in the French concession that has no cash. Yeah, just outside. And everybody always puts that in their videos. And I'm like, yep, but it's not just that one place, but there's definitely places that are just like, don't even bother.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
You're just gonna go digital.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
I'm like, I'm okay with that. Track my usage, I don't care. Yeah, well, yeah, there's that. And this is why we carry battery packs.
Shannon:
Right.
Steph:
Which I resisted for the first year back, but it just, there's only so many plugs in the world.
Shannon:
Yeah, that's fine.
Steph:
Okay, going back to the laundry thing for a second. You mentioned that there used to be more laundry out. Where has it gone? Do more people have like inside laundry hanging places?
Shannon:
I think a lot of people put it inside a lot. also because of pollution sometimes. Oh, okay. But I think part of it was that I lived in the old city and there were, it was lanes, but it was also just even the things that weren't lanes, I don't know, it was just like, it was more the nature of the neighborhood. I think where I am now, I'm right by the city center and I think they've, I don't know if they've told people not to do it so much or maybe because it's more touristy, so people don't want it out where people could like mess with it or something, which is another funny cultural thing because when US friends came or either or saw like my blog post pictures. It's so funny, you know, their first reaction was what, how do people trust to put it out there that people won't steal it? And I was like, that's so American because no Chinese person would ever think like someone's going to steal my laundry. You just wouldn't do it. And it's actually most of it isn't worth stealing anyway. But I mean, you know, it's like people's old grandmas like old panties and stuff. But I mean, there's comforters out and there's things that I mean, you could want to, I mean, I, I don't know, but it's just like a more, an accepted thing that people wouldn't do it. So I just, but I always got that reaction when I posted those pictures and so it cracked me up. Oh, yes. It's funny because even in Chinatown in.
Steph:
San Francisco and in other places, I'm sure there's, there's people putting their laundry outside like that still. And it's not, it's not just a Chinese thing. There's other cultures that do that too. But it's just, it's such a part of the culture to have the fresh air and that, and I think the sun on it's supposed to do it.
Shannon:
It's a big thing. Yeah. and with the comforters and stuff, it's a big thing. Yeah. And actually living in Spain, that's the first place I've ever been. So also they just didn't use dryers a lot.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
And yeah, it's funny, there's a lot of commonalities between Spain and China, you'd be surprised.
Steph:
Oh, top three.
Shannon:
Top three, oh, I don't know.
Steph:
You started the list.
Shannon:
I think like the importance of family and, and like the, a certain collegiality that comes from like the group you belong to. So here I feel like if you're like, it comes from sort of the work unit here. But, like, when I work at a place, they do feel like we have some belonging together, even though we may not have any interests in common. But it's like we're kind of. And I know classmates are like that here, too. And family, I feel like that's something that's kind of true in Spain also. And families definitely in more, maybe not the extent of multi-generational living, but there's a little more of that kind of thing. What else? Even though here, again, in the urban environment and with the pollution stuff, it's not as much, but there's still a certain thing about like exercising outdoors, walking, doing the dancing in the parks. Yep. They always had the, I think it's made by Chinese companies, but they had it all over Spain, the little outdoor gyms. Yes. I always worked out at that in Spain.
Steph:
And I came here, I'm like, yes, they still have them here. We have one in our complex.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Not the entrance we went in, but.
Shannon:
The other entrance, they have those metal, like almost ellipticals. Yeah. Yeah. I use them all. I use them all the time in my neighborhood. We have one in our complex, but it's kind of deteriorating, but a couple others nearby and I go and it's usually me and older people. Yeah. Sometimes people just resting on the machines and they always look at me kind of the same. But it was the same way in Spain, pretty much that. And I, I mean, things like the laundry and also a little bit. Also noise. It's also a noisy. But I, I don't know if that's a China thing, really, because that's probably because we live in a, the urban Shanghai, I don't think. But there is a thing of people, like when people talk on phones. Oh. that's it. I would say that and personal space.
Steph:
Yes, personal space.
Shannon:
Because I remember there, there's a lot less people per square or whatever, kilometer in Spain so that you don't have to be as close. But there's not a sense of, like, I should sit far away from a person. So I remember the first time I noticed it was sitting on a Metro there, and the whole train was pretty much empty, which would not happen here. Yeah. And a guy came and sat down, like, right next to me. Yeah. And then I saw it happen again and again in bars or restaurants. Someone would stand right in front of you, and it was very much something that will cause a fight in the US. why are you in my space? And here there isn't a lot of space, but there's also not that sense, you know, people can touch you and rub up against you out gently, and it's not like, oh my gosh, it.
Steph:
Is one of the things I cannot shed. I want to shed. I grew up with Italian parents and Italian family where you did not have space. And yet I have my 15 feet of space that I need around me. I cannot shed it. I know it's ridiculous to need that much personal space. And I have to check myself when somebody gets close to me, I'm just like, it just comes out. And I'm like, I know better.
Shannon:
I've experienced different.
Steph:
This is fine. And it just, it's one thing I cannot get rid of.
Shannon:
I think that's hard because it's so, it's, I mean, because it is spatial. So it's hard to, I mean, you're not just, it's not just something intellectual.
Steph:
But it's not, I don't, I never feel in danger, you know? It's just sort of like, I need that extra centimeter. Why? Why do I need that? There's nothing, I'm not even moving my arms. I'm not do anything where I need that space.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
I just need that space.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
There are times that I'm just like, there's my international self and there's my American self, and it just kind of like, they just keep hitting each other.
Shannon:
Yeah. I like to think of like the things, some of the things that irritate me, but then I also like to think of, okay, what are the good sides of it? And how can I like, what's the advantage? And with the space thing, if I'm feeling like ill or something on the Metro or like I need like tired, I'm like, I just lean against this guy every year. Like no one's gonna think, you know, if I'm like leaning on the person or if I accidentally like brush and for me, I'm not really, I mean, I do like personal space, but I'm not always good about. I mean, I don't want to say I'm inconsiderate. I'm not always aware. So I'm not. I'm a person that will occasionally, like, miss holding the door open for someone or something just because I'm unaware. And I. In the U.S. I'm so. I'm so, like, in trouble all the time because I can't do anything right in my culture because I'm not. I'm not always conscious of it. I'm not Ultra, like, hyper aware. Yes. And probably even more so now. Well, here, like, no one's gonna. because it's not such a big deal whether you're doing this kind of thing. People, you know, they, so I, I, in some ways, I get along better here in those regards.
Steph:
I, I cannot relate anymore humanly possible to that. Before we were here this time, we were in Iowa, very unpopulated state, and people are very, very keenly aware of everybody that's around them all the time and how to be decent to them. And I as a city person, I felt like they kind of went a step too far. And people would hold doors for two or three minutes.
Shannon:
Yes. Yes.
Steph:
Like they would seriously, like even, like people were like rushing to class, like on campus, they'd be rushing to class and they'd turn to see if anybody was behind them. And I'd be like a mile away. And they'd be just sitting there holding the door open and I'd be like, I don't want to run. But because they're holding it, I now had to sped up and I was just like, oh, come on. The rule is if you hold it for two seconds or three seconds and you're good, right. And you've done your deed and you move on, but I extended that so far that I was constantly sprinting to get to the door so they could stop holding it. And it was one of the things that I was just like, I can't adjust to small town America.
Shannon:
I feel like I'm polite, but I've never been as conscious always of everything surrounding me. And so that's a detriment to me sometimes in the US. And I think it's fascinating because it also goes back to what's rude and what's not polite. And another big thing here that I learned and had a lot of discussions in my language class with is here it's considered sort of rude or distancing to say please and thank you a lot, especially to family members or friends. It makes it seem like you don't have a relationship with them. And I totally get that once someone explained it to me and all that, but I remember my fellow Americans in a one Chinese class I took, they were just like at the teacher, but I want to say please every time. She goes, well, in certain sentence constructions, when you're saying it actually doesn't really make sense. But also here's culturally why, and they were like, we're not going to stop doing it because we're trying to do it. But I liked hearing about the why because it helps me to understand we can just see that and say, Rude. Or this is how, well, I was taught when I was growing up to do this to be polite. And for them, it's the total flip side. That would be really, it would be rude and strange if you were saying, I mean, I say, say please and thank you to my husband all the time. Yeah. But it would be weird. And like my parents, they would hear me interact with my parents and think, but yet as an American kid, it was like, oh, you better always say.
Steph:
Please and thank you. For everything all the time.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Sometimes when we read a lot, we get inspired to write? Was there any blog writing or travel writing that inspired you to start the blog?
Shannon:
I used to read a fair amount of travel blogs. I'm trying to think, now I can think of our podcast, but I read Adventurous Kate. She's one I still follow, so I remember her. And oh gosh, a few others. Besides travel blogs, I read a lot of books about China. And a lot of them were sort of travel or memoirs. Peter Hessler is a great one. And at this time, particularly, it's funny because I, Looking back at the blog, I also a lot of books on Kindle. I love how you can see like your digital orders so you can see what you were getting when. And now unfortunately, I don't buy as many books that way, so I'm gonna have a hard time tracking back. I also forget what I've read, so it's great. But I was looking back, I was like, wow, I've read so much about China. Like, I thought it's pretty impressive. And I need to go back and reread some. And then I also try to do that when I travel places. If we're doing a trip to Japan or Indonesia, I'll try to look for authors from there and podcasts. especially more recently. Yeah, so that's a lot of what I do now. And whether it's like the history of the place or just like a memoir written from the place.
Steph:
I like doing it before and I like doing it when I'm in the place too. Because I feel like it's like I can look up from the book and be like, I'm here.
Shannon:
Yes, this is happening.
Steph:
This happened here. Or it might have happened here. Could happen here. Is there any one book that you always recommend to people about China or Shanghai?
Shannon:
Following what I said, I would recommend something by Peter Essler. Rivertown, there's country, something country driving or whatever. So those are good.
Steph:
And, oh, there's so many.
Shannon:
And about Shanghai, one interesting one about Shanghai, it's not the one or only one I would recommend. And I hate that I'm saying both, like, I'm not saying either by Chinese authors, but it's called stateless in Shanghai. And I actually met the author and she lived here. And what I like about it is you get a lot in Shanghai. You get a lot of, like, World War II era 1930s, like the height of Shanghai jazz. age books. So I've read tons of those. I always kind of fantasize about seeing, putting myself back there. But this one, it starts in that time or a little before even, and then she's actually here post 1949 for quite a few years because she's stateless because her parents immigrated here. She was actually born in China. So I think it's a really unique take and covers like a lot of the city and a lot of things going on, but just a story that you There weren't many of her like her. So she actually ended up immigrating to America as a Chinese born white or a white Chinese born or whatever they called her. So she had to go under the quota system as a Chinese immigrant because she was born in China. But she was not of Chinese heritage at all. So that's good. And I do like a lot by Chinese authors, Yu Hua, yeah, to live. Did we talk about, did you recommend that book to me recently? No, maybe a colleague of mine was saying that, but I read it a while ago. those are good ones, I think, for understanding. Like Peter Hessler, I really think, like, broad-based China. It came here way long ago. Yeah.
Steph:
You mentioned about quiet places and how hard they were to find back then. Do you have a favorite kind of quiet place that you find pretty easy to go to in Shanghai?
Shannon:
I do find more and more now that with walking around, there are still moments of quiet. Like in parks, parks can be loud and crazy, but you can also find quiet. I like to walk along Suzhou Creek. It's not like a beautiful river walk. quite different than my walk in Spain, which was along the Mediterranean, which was totally quiet, but also sensibly beautiful. Suiza Creek's a different kind of beautiful. But I thought that can be peaceful at times. And there's also like a lot of cafes that can be, cafes can vary because sometimes people will go in a big group, we'll have a lot of loud conversation, but there's a lot more people, you know, working in cafes quietly on their laptop and that kind of stuff. So there's, and there's so many in Shanghai that I think you're bound to find one that's quiet.
Steph:
That's one of the things I really like about China.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
They've embraced coffee culture to a big degree.
Shannon:
Very much so. Yeah.
Steph:
Yeah. But there was something about bunny pajamas.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Did you own these bunny pajamas?
Shannon:
I did. And I still do, but they're very short. They were like the biggest ones they had. That's another funny thing about China being, I mean, I'm tall, but I never thought I would be like an XXL. XXL, you know, size. And those were the biggest ones they had, but they're still only they're more like Capri pants. But yeah, fuzzy bunny pajamas. And then when I got those, that time we lived in a nicer apartment complex. There was only two apartments on every floor. And we had German, well, German slash Portuguese neighbors. And I remember my neighbor sent me a message. We got our big padded pajamas. So we had a picture of her husband from the giant, like old, like plaid huge, like fluffy, giant... You can't wear them to bed. I mean, it's wearing like, two down blanket. So they were just their lounge clothes to wear around. So, yeah, I have little like panda pillow hand warmers. I'm not wearing that stuff as much as I used to. I guess I thought it was very new and exciting when I was here at first. Yeah, yeah.
Steph:
I was super grumpy when I first moved to Taiwan because I even in care for, I couldn't find plain sheets with one color. Everything was not just flower patterned, but cartoon pattern. And I was like, I'm an adult.
Shannon:
Why this? Why that?
Steph:
And now I'll consciously go and look for the cutest, cartooniest thing. And carry that around consciously. As a 46-year-old woman, I'm like, Hey, look at me.
Shannon:
I'm cute. I did have one grumpy, I have a, like the neck pillow. I have a different one now, but I had this pink pig one. And actually it's from a place in the US, it's those spa stores that are in the airport. That's where I got it. And I had a grumpy old Dude in the US be like, Aren't you a little old for that? All of us flight attendants are very much like, oh, that's so cute, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. This guy, I was like, Fuck you. Aren't you a little old to be talking to me? Yeah.
Steph:
Brings happiness.
Shannon:
Yeah. Look, on a long flight, anything that's gonna make someone smile is good.
Steph:
Seriously, you mentioned that people were surprised by nobody stealing, like, clothes on the plane. on the racks and stuff. For the people you know who haven't come to China, what do you think is one of the biggest things that they don't understand about modern day China?
Shannon:
Everything.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
I mean, big, isn't it? I'll encapsulated in a few things. One, that level of safety, which maybe doesn't have to do with the laundry ceiling, but the level of day-to-day safety, which I know there's a trade-off security versus things like privacy. Right. And I don't discount that, but I also see where It does work here in a lot of ways. One of the few places I've lived where I'd be, I don't, I'm not usually out till three in the morning, but I walk around by myself at three in the morning. So I think people don't really know that until they hear more about day-to-day life. They hear a lot of things in snippets. So they do hear like, oh, economic growth and blah, blah, blah, but they don't, they just don't know what day-to-day life is like, I don't think. And then they have a lot of thoughts on like the government and the, sort of the bad, the negative things that the press likes to play up. And I still get a lot of, and it surprises me because I feel like nowadays this wouldn't come as much. I feel like people would be more informed, but they'll always, oh, like, do they like knock on your door? Are they, you know, listening to your, you know, all of a sudden they have this real strong feeling and I always, I'm always like, here's kind of how it works. It doesn't work that way. And, you know, and also it's, there's like, it seems to be a lack of awareness about how things worked in a lot of other places. Right. My privacy is just as not available as it is in the US as it is. I think the day to day stuff like that, that they think they have kind of an old school picture. and I say all that, not like I'm the expert and know everything, because I've lived here a long time. It's a lot to unpack. It is.
Steph:
It is. But the difference between what I think the average, I wouldn't even say just average American, average person who's never been to China knows about modern-day China versus what it's like is extremely different. And I still can't in some way wrap my head around is that because of what China is projecting into the world, what people are willing to absorb from what's coming out of China or just, is it partially a language barrier because people see things in Chinese language and they go, oh, I can't handle that. And they don't even look at pictures.
Shannon:
Right.
Steph:
That come with it kind of thing. I don't, I don't know why there's such a big difference between what they think they know and what is real. Yeah. And people are really surprised.
Shannon:
Like when I, we have visitors to Shanghai, they're always like, and they usually fall in love with it. There's, and especially Shanghai. It's a very unique part of China. I'm not trying to equate it to all of China and the day-to-day stuff that we try to explain, like paying with everything with our phone using WeChat and AliPay. When we explain that to people, I always get this, and we're literally explaining how it works, but there's still, until you see, like you were talking about videos, there's some videos online that show it better because you kind of really need to see how it operates. Like having a whole day doing it. Because when you tell people, they'll say like, oh, we have, yeah, we have some stuff like that. Like AliPay and some apps. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Like, you know, and delivery, I'll say like, we can get everything delivered anytime 24/7. And I'll give examples, but it's like, you have to come and just live in my apartment for a couple days and then see how you actually could just literally stay in your bed and never leave and like get anything you wanted. So I think that day to day life, but that's, that's hard anywhere to know, to understand what places are like until you're spent. I mean, even an extended vacation.
Steph:
I hate that I don't want to soapbox too much, but I think the reason why it gets to me so much sometimes or annoys me so much sometimes is because there's the fear mongering that goes on with it. So people are very easy to attach to the scare, what they think is a scary part of modern day China, but they don't want to find out any of the quote unquote normal or everyday life stuff. It's like they like the fear, oh, they're worse than us, or they're different in that way that I don't know.
Shannon:
Yeah. And because of the way that sound bites and, you know, articles go out, it's true about, I guess, a lot of different cultures that are saying, but because the US and maybe Europe as a whole and China are like these big sort of powers in the world, those are who you tend to hear. It's happened. outside. It happens. I mean, Chinese brands definitely have the same problems with America.
Steph:
Oh, yeah.
Shannon:
Because they see the sound bites and if something is going on there. And, you know, again, not all of it's wrong. It's just like, not everyone's wrong about the things they're talking about China, but it's very, it's generalizations and it's overblown sometimes. Yeah. That kind of thing.
Steph:
Yeah.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Do you think it's equally as off Chinese people's view of other countries? Is it as misconceived as our view of China?
Shannon:
Maybe not as much because I think those places have been open for so long. So there's also, there is still a closedness here. I mean, if people still have to get visas to a certain, you know, there's some transit visas now. But so it just tends to be a place people from any country outside of China have gone less. You know, you talk to people that do travel a lot and they'll have hit like almost all of Asia, but they're like, ah, China, I have to get the visas. And I hear it's more of a language barrier and stuff. So I think they have people Now, anyway, nowadays, anyway, I think people, younger people are traveling and studying abroad so much here that they're, they're gaining a lot more, understand. I mean, they're rapidly outpacing the others, you know, the other way.
Steph:
I'm very curious what that generation of Chinese folks are going to do once they get to that age of power. I wouldn't say put up with, but I feel like with all governments, the population has to put up with a certain amount of stuff. So I'm just very, very curious how much traditional China in its infrastructure is going to keep going and how much.
Shannon:
Of it will be massaged when they get into power. Yeah, it's definitely, I mean, the younger generation and its generations are so much shorter because how rapidly things change. But I feel like they're, they're a different breed. I mean, I interact with young Chinese people a lot and the women especially, they're just like they're dynamos and they're doing things that, you know, even, I mean, my age, I'm a totally different generation than them, but even someone 10 years younger than me, isn't totally. And they're just doing things that just weren't popular a little while ago. They are traveling more. They're doing independent travel. Things that still maybe aren't, like, widely, widely happening, but slowly starting. And, like, when you talk about coffee culture, I mean, you're talking about a place that, like, couldn't find a coffee. And even 2012, there wasn't that much coffee here. And then it's like, boom, you know, and the adopting of those. different things is interesting. And there will be a lot of, like, traditional culture that gets left behind. That'll be, like, the sad part of it.
Steph:
It's never an innocent act. There's always the good and the bad that go out together. Yeah. All right, final question. Is there any advice you would give to your 2012 self?
Shannon:
Yes, I definitely do. Study Chinese. You're gonna be there a long time. We originally were going to be here two years. Yeah. And then. And it was like, maybe we'll extend the three. That was the most. Then we did the basic study. to get by and we could get by and then we were like, okay, we're doing okay for now and got lazy. And then at that point it was like, but now it won't be very long. And I probably will go eventually, my next move will be probably to a Spanish speaking country. So I'll want to get my Spanish back. So I just kept saying to myself, and we both work in English solely. It's very easy to have excuses, but I'm embarrassed after being here this long that my language is so horrible, even though I just dealt with a locksmith situation today with a guy. I mean, I, well, actually, I shouldn't say I did call the landlord for a little, little helpful translation, but, I mean, it all works fine. So it, it, it's unfortunate that in Shanghai, it's easy to be lazy like that, but I would still tell myself because I pride myself on, like, finding out about culture and reading and stuff. So I, this is like a huge hole that's missing that I, you know.
Steph:
Don'T have the language. So I know what you mean, and I'm slowly chipping away at it, but. The level you need to get to to read those kind of cultural books is so high. And it takes so there's a huge learning curve with Chinese. You just don't get with romance languages coming from English.
Shannon:
Yeah, that's true. I just wish I could have a little more conversation. I know.
Steph:
I know. And that was my biggest problem the first few times I tried to learn it. It was like I had to push through the functional stuff to get to the interesting conversations. And I'm like, I don't care about ordering in a restaurant. My pointing is working.
Shannon:
I don't care.
Steph:
Of course I care. Are you married? Do you have children? Blah, blah, blah. Of course that's important. But that's where the conversation would end. I'd be like, well, that's just the beginning. I want to talk more and more deeply and about different things and it would take so long. So, yeah, not as an excuse.
Shannon:
Yes.
Steph:
As long as we're here, I will be... Actually, I'll probably study even after we leave whenever that is, because it's taking so long to get to any real level. Yeah, that's the language that I'm like. And that was part of the advantages of this is that even though Cantonese sounds different and there's some grammatical differences, apparently a lot of the meanings and.
Shannon:
The words are the same.
Steph:
So I can read pretty much Cantonese and Pudonghua and whatever once I leave. So if I can get to a functional reading level, I can be digitally competent no matter where I am. It's just leaving before then is tricky.
Shannon:
Right. Yeah.
Steph:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything other than language that you would tell yourself? Because that sounded more like a guilty moment.
Shannon:
Yeah, I mean, I would, I want to say things like enjoy it and take advantage of it, but I feel like I fully have done that. Yeah, I've never gotten to that point. I mean, it comes in ups and downs, but because friends come and go here a lot and all that kind of stuff, what I really like about living abroad and here in Shanghai, there's so much to do, is that I I always want to go out and, like, go to new groups and do different things. I mean, I've done more than I can count City tours of different aspects of Shanghai. I've gone to small towns. I, I'd like to go to more places in China, but I also don't regret at all that I've gone to almost every country in Asia. I've spent a month in New Zealand. I've, you know, I've been to all the major tourist cities in, in Shanghai or in China and done a lot of the cultural stuff in Shanghai. I mean, I feel like I've taken a lot of advantage. of the time. There's probably other things that I said to myself, like goofy little things, like we have the, these air filters now that you, you do this rental thing. And I remember a lot of things like that. I was like, well, I don't want to buy this because I'm only going to be here a short time or, I don't know, just different things about settling in. Yeah. I kind of wish that I had lived one other place, but we've been able, this apartment that we're in, we've been able to renew it pretty well without, like, huge increases. That's wonderful. it just becomes in Shanghai, I think it's like, okay, it's really convenient. Yeah. I have stuff I don't want to move and all that. But I think I one, if there is going to be any small regret besides language, it would be that I didn't live in, like, a very, another very different neighborhood. I loved, I lived in Lao Shiman when I was first here, the old city. Loved it. And it's gotten, a lot of it's gotten torn down, but it's about ready to be completely gone. There's some really pretty old, like summaries of the neighborhood. So I really, really love that I had the time there. And then where we are now, it's just been convenient, but it's not that much of a neighborhood, but I'm glad to be in a different part of the city. But I kind of wish I had had maybe like a Langhorne experience or something a bit different in terms of... But I know they have... Yeah, I say that now, but then if I had done it, then I would probably.
Steph:
Be saying the advice to myself would.
Shannon:
Be, don't live in Langhorne. So, and it's hard to I feel.
Steph:
Like I've lived in the equivalent of lane houses in other countries. So when we were viewing them and when we first got back, I was like, I think I've done this. I'm okay. I'm okay. I can go to an apartment. Yeah.
Shannon:
And I haven't, I felt like I haven't missed out on neighborhoods and stuff by being in it. It's not like I've been in like a giant, like fancy complex where I do everything within it and I haven't left. Yeah. And I haven't been in an isolated, you know, bubble. So that hasn't really been a problem. And it is nice because generally, like, I've never, I don't think I've ever had electricity out. I mean, our internet goes out, but you just do the router and put it back in. Yeah. Very few major issues. And I know that's not always the case in older housing.
Steph:
No, it's not. And we've been lucky too. Lots of minor things breaking all the time, but nothing major. There's not a lot of wood in it.
Shannon:
I mean, today we did get locked into and out of our apartment because the door lock is so bad. So that was one that I can just be thankful that one of us was in and one of us was out. Right. And I wasn't traveling because in about a week I'll be in Europe and that would be fun for my husband if he was stuck in the apartment with calling someone help. Yeah. But, yeah, it's, it's things that. And, and amazing how here, too, that there's always a guy for it. There's always a guy who can fix it. And it's like, it's always done quickly. It was messaging my boss saying, I might be late to work. 'cause there's no lock on the door at all and stuff. And then I message him, I'm like, no, I'm gonna be on time. It's fine. It's done. Whole door, done. Just went down, got the guy on the street, brought him up. He pounded around for a while and got it done. Yeah.
Steph:
Oh, that's really good. So, okay, the premise of this podcast is kind of a multitude of things. One is to demystify the first year of living in a country that's not your passport country. and another one is to kind of show that it can be in a more intensive experience in the second, third, fourth, whatever year after that, but it can be worth it. And there's a lot of modals in there because sometimes it isn't, but a lot of times it can be. Did you notice a difference between your first year here and the other years after it?
Shannon:
A little bit, I think, because everything's so new. I feel more like I've mastered a lot of things now, but it's never dull here, so I don't have other places. that, I mean, I had not been overseas somewhere as long, but other places I could see where it got like super comfortable, super fast. Although, like if I go back to Spain, Spain has a lot of like interesting bureaucratic things that are actually more difficult to deal with than China. But here, like today, this incident that happened, I was like, I know exactly how to deal with this. I know, even though my language is horrible, I know how I'm gonna get around the language problem and all the resources I can use. So definitely as opposed to the beginning where everything with every little task you had to do with an adventure. There's more mastery of it, but still there's enough quirks and there's enough things going on there. Not boring at all. Never boring. And like some of the, I have to take moments to appreciate some of these little things, like these ever present blank of China. Now I have to kind of look around and remember. And I did have a moment recently, I guess this is a good follow up. It was a rainy night. He said hi. And I was walking on, so everything looks prettier at night and in the rain. It's like you can't see the dust and stuff. It was like really pretty. And I looked around, and then I looked at all the Chinese characters on all the street signs and stuff. And I said, My myself, before I came here or when I first came here, would have been like, wow, this is so foreign. Like everything is in Chinese. Like it looks, it's cool. And I was like, that's so cool, even though I can't read any of it. But, you know, it's like, it really is quite a foreign land. A lot of places you go, you see Roman writing, even if you don't know the language, there's a common word. cards. Yeah. This is cool. Looking around and seeing the visual of that. So I, I had that moment, but I don't have those moments every day. And that's a big difference, I think, between your first year and then as time goes by. Yeah.
Steph:
They are more frequent.
Shannon:
Yeah.
Steph:
Even coming back eight years. Because we're gone for eight years. Even coming back, I had some of that. It wasn't the full year at this time, but it definitely was the first few months. There was a of those moments daily where I was kind of like, I need some time alone now. You need to go think about that.
Shannon:
Wow.
Steph:
Well, thank you, Shannon. This has been really, really, really fun to do and very interesting. I can't believe how much in common I get from a lot of the stuff that you brought up. So thank you very much for coming on.
Shannon:
Yeah, you're welcome. Glad to do it.