From Military Veteran to Award-Winning Wedding Photographer: The Fascinating Journey of Neil Ridley

Have you ever wondered how a military veteran turned security manager could end up becoming a multiple Flash Masters award-winning wedding photographer? Join us as we sit down with the incredibly talented Lancashire-based Neil Ridley, who shares his fascinating journey, from starting out second shooting all the way through to owning his own photography studio!

Throughout our conversation, we explore how Neil strategically grew his wedding photography business, rebranded as Neil Ridley Photography, and capitalized on national wedding shows. We also discuss the benefits and joys of second shooting, with Neil sharing his experiences and even setting up a dedicated website for this side of his work.

But that's not all! Neil takes us into the world of studio photography, sharing his personal experiences of opening his own studio and the challenges of shooting dog portraits. This episode is brimming with invaluable advice, funny anecdotes, and a heartwarming appreciation for the joy and laughter that photography can bring to people's lives. You don't want to miss this delightful conversation with the one and only Neil Ridley!

Follow Neil on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neilridleyphoto/
Follow Neil Ridley Studio: https://www.instagram.com/neilridleystudio/

Join us in the Flash Masters community:

Website: https://flashmasters.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flashmasters/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@flash-masters

Flash Masters is hosted by:

Helen Williams: https://www.instagram.com/helenwilliamsphotography/
Neil Redfern: https://www.instagram.com/neilredfern/

Transcript

Intro: 0:00

Welcome to the Flashmasters podcast. Flashmasters recognizes and celebrates the best flash photography in the world through education, awards and community. To find out more and to join the Flashmasters community, visit flashmastersco. Here are your hosts, Helen Williams and Neil Redfern.

Neil Redfern: 0:21

Hello everyone, Welcome to the Flash Masters podcast with me, Neil Redfern, and me, Helen Williams, and today we are joined by one of the nicest people in the wedding photography industry Lancashire based wedding photographer, Neil Ridley. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a true honour.

Neil Ridley: 0:42

It's amazing to have you here. I've listened to several of your podcasts and you still wanted to do it. I never, ever thought I'd be on it. And I'll tell you it's an experience already. No, we're truly honoured, before we get into the, podcast.

Neil Redfern: 0:54

I want to say thank you to you, Neil, because you've been such a help to me over the years, Genuinely always there to lend support. Neil is one of the nicest people And recently we're going to get into this later in the podcast but you opened your own photography studio And I've been here what three, four times now making YouTube videos. We're recording today in Neil's studio. We're actually on location. Yes, We took this on the road. It's so exciting, isn't it? It is, But yeah, Neil will never accept anything from me. He's always just keeps on saying it's yours, What yours is mine Hashtag team, Neil and all that sort of stuff. So thank you, Neil, for all the support you've given me and Helen and Flash Masters. Neil is also a multiple Flash Masters award winner as well. Oh, shoot, So we'll get onto that, Yeah.

Intro: 1:35

But no it's really, we're really honoured to have you on.

Helen Williams: 1:37

So thank you very much.

Neil Redfern: 1:37

It really is.

Helen Williams: 1:38

What a treat for all our listeners, all these guests that we've got coming on are my two favourite Neil's Exactly.

Neil Redfern: 1:46

Yes, is there any other Neil in the running? I don't know.

Helen Williams: 1:50

I don't think I know any other. Do I know any other? Neil's?

Neil Redfern: 1:53

So no wonder You're your two favourite by default.

Helen Williams: 1:57

Well, we'll get to the end of the podcast and see he's actually number one. Oh, I like it.

Neil Ridley: 2:02

Oh don't put me in that position.

Neil Redfern: 2:05

Before we get into everything, as I say, neil is an amazing wedding photographer. He did so much to talk about with Neil. He's got such a colourful backstory. He's also a prolific that's the right word, i think, to second shooter as well, which we want to get into. But before we get into all the good stuff, shall we just ask some of our random question teller.

Helen Williams: 2:23

Yes, i do love a good random question OK let's do it, so we have been prepping. Neil at all with these. He doesn't know what's coming his way. So my first random question is if you could be any animal in the animal kingdom, what would you be and why? OK, right.

Neil Ridley: 2:37

When I used to run pubs and clubs, I actually used this question as a recruiting tool.

Neil Redfern: 2:41

Oh yeah. What's the thought behind it then? He's very psychology-behind.

Neil Ridley: 2:45

Just to put somebody on the spot and see if they can think on their feet and just come up with an answer. That's not a chicken or a lion or a monkey, because you know. So anyway, i was recruiting for a bar in Burnley And out of all the kids that turned up for a job interview there was one And I hate to sort of like pigeonhole people, but he looked like a chav. He had a shell suit on and big Nike hair shoes and his cap was on backwards And I just thought you really are not a good fit for this bar at all. So I went through all the questions and I sat him down. Sorry, i sat him down and I went through all the questions And I said I've got to ask you this If you could be any animal, what would you be and why? And he came back with a diplodocus.

Neil Redfern: 3:28

Wow OK.

Neil Ridley: 3:30

Why on earth would you be a diplodocus? And he looked me dead in the eye and said because I don't reckon you can spell it Nice. So that's right, You've got to write it down the form.

Neil Redfern: 3:37

Yeah, i did. I haven't spelled it wrong, i'm a dinosaur.

Helen Williams: 3:41

Yeah, interesting, so you Diplodocus. Yeah, thankfully it's a podcast.

Neil Redfern: 3:47

We don't have to write it down, but just for everybody listening, i can spell it perfectly. That's all you need to know Questionable. OK question from me. I've got to change it, i think, yeah, a bit of a deeper one here. Neil, are you an?

Neil Ridley: 4:01

introvert or an extrovert Introvert? absolutely, i think we're very similar. Actually, i don't deal well with large groups of, like the Christmas do for the photographers. I'm always in the corner having a beer with a couple of people I know I'm exactly the same. You'll never see me on the dance floor because I dance like your uncle, ken. People can lose eyes. if I'm poke-mo-way John Travolta style, it's awful. So yeah, definitely an introvert.

Helen Williams: 4:25

If you could? Yeah, they're all sort of like what would you do or who would you be? But if you could switch lives with any celebrity from any sort of time in the past or present, who would it be? and why? Only for a day, though, Robin Williams.

Neil Ridley: 4:38

Oh, I really admired Robin Williams and his way of. I like angels. That's a wee second of Rubbish show, Rubbish show. So Robin Williams I really looked up to as an inspiration. He could walk into a room and be the funniest guy there, and who wouldn't want to be that person? That's not me at all. So just to get myself out of the comfort zone completely, that's what I would love to do.

Neil Redfern: 5:05

Amazing. Swap it Robin Williams. Yeah, really really good answer, really good answer. This is similar. If you could be any fictional character, neil, who would it be? Oh my God, oh my God. We're putting you on the spotlight. You did that, chav.

Neil Ridley: 5:19

Sherlock Holmes.

Neil Redfern: 5:20

Oh, my God.

Neil Ridley: 5:21

Yeah yeah, Swarve sophisticated everything. I am not. They're brilliant answers.

Helen Williams: 5:27

Yeah, they were really good.

Neil Ridley: 5:29

Oh.

Helen Williams: 5:29

Okay, so Oh No this is brilliant, Neil.

Neil Redfern: 5:34

You have a very colourful past. We won't go into everything we've done. I've been lucky enough to know Neil for now for quite a few years and I've heard some crazy stories, So just know everyone who's listening Everything we say now is probably just a taster of what Neil has done, But you have had a few different jobs, haven't you I have. I'd like to know a brief overview of your CV before you get into photography And then how you did get into wedding photography.

Neil Ridley: 5:57

Right, it all comes back to a young lad joining the military at the age of 18. I think I had my 19th birthday three days into basic training, So I was in the military. I joined as Royal Air Force Police. While I was in the Royal Air Force Police, I specialised as a counter-terrorist officer. Wow, Very cool. Yeah, we did something called Special Duties, where you go off and do other things.

Neil Redfern: 6:21

You were cool with this, sherlock.

Neil Ridley: 6:22

Holmes In real life. I just want one of the hats, one of the called the Deer Stalker.

Helen Williams: 6:27

This feels like I was like James Bond style. No, no, no, it was all.

Neil Ridley: 6:33

How much can you say Yeah, it was really good fun. It was interesting. I went all over the world and did stuff that very few are the people that get to do. A lot of it is stuff that we don't talk about. I don't want to sound like a Walter Mitty here, but God, it was fun.

Neil Redfern: 6:47

It was really good fun.

Neil Ridley: 6:48

So I've done Iraq, afghanistan, kuwait, all over the Middle East, mostly Europe, america, i think I worked out at one point. I've stood on every continent on the planet apart from Antarctica and Australia.

Neil Redfern: 7:01

Wow. Now some of those times I've just been there for 10 minutes with the aircraft land. Even so, At the time it's been a few months. I feel so boring in comparison Yeah.

Helen Williams: 7:11

What's that? You're a real life, james Bond.

Neil Redfern: 7:14

Literally. when you were doing all this, i was stacking shells in a co-op. It's a little supermarket There's a difference Levels to this.

Neil Ridley: 7:22

I've done that as well. I did that when I was at school. When I was doing that, Joe, I was surveillance trained. We learned how to use a camera.

Neil Redfern: 7:29

Oh, wow. So was that the first time you used a camera then?

Neil Ridley: 7:32

No, my dad had Canon cameras and I used them as a kid, but I didn't really know what I was doing, so I was just playing around with those. But the military showed you how to use a camera, how to use it in different situations, and that's basically how I learned all about using a camera.

Neil Redfern: 7:47

Wow, I think if we were to ask another 100 people how they got started with photography, we would not have that same answer.

Helen Williams: 7:53

No, definitely not.

Neil Ridley: 7:55

No, it was all very long lenses and looking out.

Intro: 7:59

From bushes. Yeah pretty much.

Neil Redfern: 8:00

We get weddings now, yeah, foreground bokeh Oh God.

Helen Williams: 8:05

We're all like what can we say? What can we not? No, that sounds absolutely incredible. Yeah, if only we could. I know we can't, but if only I could delve in and ask, like what's the best? we can't. Afterwards, afterwards, yeah, but I can't wait to know what your best photo that you took was when you were in the military, but he dabbled off the podcast. Anyway, sorry, i'm going off on one.

Neil Redfern: 8:26

I told you Neil had a colourful past. He did.

Helen Williams: 8:28

Anyway, sorry, Neil.

Neil Redfern: 8:31

We'll skirt past all the army stuff then, yeah, and then you're back in civilian life.

Intro: 8:37

Okay, so I was a private investigator with a What I don't know, if I mentioned this, Yeah but he's just the way you say it, okay, yeah.

Neil Ridley: 8:45

So I was a private investigator for a security company in the Northwest. I ran their investigations department. Wow.

Neil Redfern: 8:52

He was so cool. Forget about photography, let's just talk about this.

Neil Ridley: 8:56

No, i was good friends with a very, very well-known private detective and he did a lot of work for Manchester United and Vauxhall and you know big corporate clients.

Intro: 9:08

Wow.

Neil Ridley: 9:09

And he used to take me along like his little brother And yeah we used to do big jobs like that. That was fun. The rest of it was all sort of like this is my husband having an affair, or Even that, though, he's still Oh, he's such a cool.

Helen Williams: 9:20

Oh, I love that. We love the drama Oh, can we be PIs.

Neil Redfern: 9:23

Yeah, should we do that after photography? We'd be rubbish after that. You would be not the best. You're a bit too loud, i think.

Helen Williams: 9:29

Maybe a little loud Oh but it'd be so exciting, wouldn't it Like?

Neil Ridley: 9:32

stay out, It's really not as exciting as you think. Oh, a lot of waiting around Hours and hours of wasted time. I mean the technology has moved on now where I could actually follow somebody without leaving the home. I mean we all know that there's Apple Airtags Yeah, There's ways of making them secret and just sticking them on a car and away you go. But the bugs I used to have were like the size of a mobile phone with a big magnet underneath. We used to stick them under cars and follow them.

Neil Redfern: 9:57

Was it quite a thrill then, if you did catch this I did. I never thought we'd ask on the flashmash If you actually caught someone cheating. is that a good feeling, or do you think? oh, I feel sorry for that.

Neil Ridley: 10:08

I always felt really bad for them. Yeah, i was glad that I got the job done, because sometimes it would take a week of following somebody just for a five minute encounter And you go, yes, got the info And then oh wow.

Helen Williams: 10:22

Oh, i don't know how I feel. I'm up and down. I want to do this job. I want the gas, i want it. Yeah, it must be exciting at certain points, but I've got a short attention span, so I don't think it's easy. Yeah.

Neil Redfern: 10:32

Yeah, oh, you could be a new phone in the car.

Helen Williams: 10:35

I just miss what happens, though, like scrolling Instagram.

Neil Redfern: 10:38

Helen's watching Marilyn at first sight again.

Helen Williams: 10:41

Totally miss everything I've been said to do. Anyway, you see, you've been a military personal investigator.

Neil Ridley: 10:47

OK, so I went from being a private investigator to walk about bars. The Australian themed pump company. That's a difference. Yeah, it is kind of It tied in with the security company I was working for. They used to provide all the door staff to late night venues And, at the time, walk about. We're going through a license review. Basically, they'd annoyed the local police. They had too much violence and too much underage drinking and things like that. Is this a?

Neil Redfern: 11:13

walk-about in Blackpool.

Neil Ridley: 11:14

Yes.

Neil Redfern: 11:14

Right Again for those that listen to the podcast. We spoke about Blackpool with Yannina Brockelsby a couple of episodes ago And yeah, blackpool's an interesting place, isn't it? Yeah?

Neil Ridley: 11:23

it is.

Neil Redfern: 11:24

Call of all characters. Call of all.

Neil Ridley: 11:26

Yeah, call of all. Kept me in business for a long time.

Neil Redfern: 11:29

I think it's almost like the Hennan Stagdoo capital of the UK. Yeah, I think so.

Neil Ridley: 11:33

Yeah, it's what Blackpool is known for, of course, and of course Hennan Stagdoo's always get a little bit out of hand. So the pub that I was working at had 14 or 15 door staff on a Friday and Saturday night.

Helen Williams: 11:45

That's a lot, isn't it?

Neil Ridley: 11:47

Yeah, it was nicknamed Fight Club.

Helen Williams: 11:50

It wasn't good.

Neil Ridley: 11:52

So I was employed as the security manager for Walk About and blow my own trumpet here, but we crushed it. We absolutely.

Neil Redfern: 12:00

I've only been telling me this years ago We got the crime rate down to the lowest level it has ever been.

Neil Ridley: 12:04

It was used as a model for how pubs should be run. So, yeah, that was the Walk About thing. Then I had a nightclub in North Wales. Yeah, that was fair, yeah.

Helen Williams: 12:16

This is just bonkers.

Neil Redfern: 12:18

We're never going to find another guest like this, no.

Neil Ridley: 12:21

Yeah, so I was a nightclub manager for the Broadway Boulevard nightclub in Klandidno. Oh, we love Klandidno, Yeah you were there just the other day, weren't you?

Helen Williams: 12:29

Well pronounced as well Klandidno. Where is your Klandidno Klandidno?

Neil Ridley: 12:33

Oh yeah, you learned very quickly not to go.

Helen Williams: 12:35

Klandidno.

Neil Ridley: 12:37

No, the locals don't like that.

Helen Williams: 12:38

No, they don't at all. No.

Neil Ridley: 12:40

So yeah, i had that for I think a couple of years before the parent company went into liquidation And I ended up taking six months off. I said to the wife, sorry. I said to Sam my wife, yeah, i'd been working crazy hours, 80 odd hours a week.

Neil Ridley: 12:56

Yeah, really like social hours as well, Horrendous horrendous Finishing work at five o'clock in the morning, getting home for six and then having to have a family life. That was hard work. So I said to her I really want three months off. We've got enough money saved up. I don't want to do anything for three months And we went walking through the countryside, We went exploring the Great Britain. It was amazing. We had the best three months ever, so we extended it and we took six months.

Neil Redfern: 13:19

Oh, I love that. That's brilliant.

Neil Ridley: 13:21

Honestly, by the end of the six months we were penniless, but we were the happiest and fittest we'd ever been. We were doing the Tolkien Trail and walking all over the Lake District. We just loved it.

Neil Redfern: 13:33

Amazing. So what's the time we're talking here then?

Neil Ridley: 13:36

Oh, I'm terrible with dates. I couldn't give you a date.

Neil Redfern: 13:38

Some time, then at least obviously Yeah, yeah yeah, i couldn't tell you which.

Neil Ridley: 13:42

Yeah, i forget my own birthday, but I do remember. After the six months were up, sam walked into the living room and said right, we're broke, get a job. Oh, where did I go that? I went to another pub company and I ended up with a pub in Southport. And while I was doing that, i was also shooting weddings.

Neil Redfern: 13:59

So how did that help? Oh, I've skipped a spot there.

Neil Ridley: 14:01

Yeah, sorry, one of the DJs at Walkabout was also a wedding photographer And we'd been chatting. He knew I could use a camera. He needed a second shooter. Yeah fine, no problems, i'll turn it up and shoot. I had an absolute blast with him.

Neil Redfern: 14:15

So was that the first wedding you'd gone to after the photographer, right?

Neil Ridley: 14:17

OK Yeah yeah, it was great fun. I think it was at the Villa in Ray Green.

Neil Redfern: 14:21

Oh, yes, that was my first ever wedding. Yeah, I know that.

Neil Ridley: 14:24

And I didn't know how to address the groom. I couldn't remember his name, i don't know, about you, but I still have that problem now. You know when you've got a run of weddings You've got to use that You. I've got it written on my hand Honestly in Sharpie Penn. Before I go out I write the name on my hand, ok, ok, bill and Claire, that's fun.

Helen Williams: 14:42

Yeah, no, i'm terrible. I come home from weddings. I've been with the couple all day When it comes to back up the files and make a folder with their names on. Honestly, that happened on Saturday. I had to go into my studio, ninja, to get their names. I'd been with them all day And literally I'd left them half an hour earlier. I was like, no, i probably sat there for a good 30 seconds to a minute, wracking my brains go, what were their names?

Neil Ridley: 15:05

Have you ever had a wedding where you've called them the wrong name all day and nobody's corrected you?

Helen Williams: 15:09

Not that I know, but probably I had one.

Neil Redfern: 15:12

I don't know if I mentioned it on a podcast before, but I went to a wedding. It was only.

Intro: 15:17

Helen's laughing already. she knows it, You might know it as well.

Neil Redfern: 15:19

I don't know, but I went to it might have been last year or the year before. either way, i had like a Skype with the meeting beforehand. It was all going really well and everything. And arrived on the day and thought, oh, i thought that a particular bridesmaid was the bride, but they were calling one of the bridesmaids Bridey. All of them was calling her Bridey. So it's like I've already got this wrong. So I started just shooting Bridey a lot as you would, and thinking nothing of it, and for about half an hour I was just shooting this one particular person until the real bride came over and made it very obvious. But I said oh, neil, thank you so much for coming over. We're so pleased that you're doing this. We really appreciate you traveling so far. And I was like, oh no, it's a pleasure. I'm realizing during this conversation, live, that the mistake I've made looked at my form, which is my own fault because I had it on a form. One of the bride's actual, real names was Bridey Crazy.

Neil Ridley: 16:10

So yeah, so you look like a crazy stalker all the way through.

Neil Redfern: 16:13

Yes, For half an hour I'm focusing on just the bridesmaids. She's probably thinking who is this weirdo and why is he photographing me?

Helen Williams: 16:18

Yeah, bridey, thought I'm in there. Yeah, creep.

Neil Redfern: 16:23

Yeah, so that wasn't yeah, So these things can happen. So overall though, how did that wedding actually go? We obviously you enjoyed it.

Neil Ridley: 16:30

I loved it. I still look back at some of those pictures now and go, yep, nailed that one, Maybe one in a thousand pictures I actually nailed And I shot portrait. Everything was portrait. I had a. What was it? It was a Canon 7D with a battery grip.

Neil Redfern: 16:45

Oh brother friend.

Neil Ridley: 16:45

Yeah, so obviously I was going to use that and everything was portrait.

Intro: 16:49

Every single shot was portrait.

Neil Ridley: 16:51

I can't remember the last time I shot a portrait image.

Neil Redfern: 16:53

No, i don't either, i do that sometimes.

Neil Ridley: 16:56

Yeah, yeah.

Neil Redfern: 16:57

So would that give you the bug then? And then, from there was it just more second shooting, and then.

Neil Ridley: 17:01

Yeah, i tagged along with this photographer for about 10, maybe 12 weddings, and what I did learn massively from him was how to behave in front of a wedding crowd. They're not staring at you. You feel like they're staring at you, but they're not. They don't care, you're just another person at the wedding. So it gave me the confidence to actually stand up in front of a wedding party and direct them. Nobody likes to direct a crowd, do we? We all like to do reportage.

Helen Williams: 17:26

Well, i didn't know. I'm quite happy to boss people around.

Neil Ridley: 17:29

No, no, no, not for me, not for me, but some weddings you do have to stand there and go right. Then, guys, come on, we're going to go and do the big group portrait. Working with this chap gave me the confidence and knowing how weddings would flow on the day.

Helen Williams: 17:41

So, in terms of then going from a second shooter to starting your own business, did you, or what were those first sort of steps? Did you create a Facebook page or a website? or how did you go about creating Neil Ridley Photography?

Neil Ridley: 17:55

I had a company before Neil Ridley Photography. It was actually called The Photo Chap. What?

Neil Redfern: 17:59

I don't remember. Do you remember? I do know the name.

Neil Ridley: 18:01

yes, It was really aimed at budget weddings. It was a budget brand and it was really humiliating to look back on it. I had a Mercedes, an E-Class Mercedes, with the Photo Chap in massive letters down the side.

Neil Redfern: 18:13

I like it. No, it was cheese central. I do remember that now.

Neil Ridley: 18:17

But I shot a lot of weddings as The Photo Chap.

Helen Williams: 18:19

Right.

Neil Ridley: 18:20

And that was the basis for rebranding to Neil Ridley Photography Rebranding have you ever done it?

Helen Williams: 18:26

No, i changed the logo, that's it.

Neil Ridley: 18:29

I thought it would be a job that I could do in an afternoon and in the end I would think like an idiot. yeah, yeah yeah, i'm just changing my name. I just changed the letterhead.

Neil Redfern: 18:37

Yeah.

Neil Ridley: 18:38

No, it was a nightmare, absolute nightmare. It took me and the wife about a week.

Neil Redfern: 18:43

I suppose you put your SEO and stuff for the old ones, Yeah it all needed moving across it Everything.

Neil Ridley: 18:48

I don't understand websites, The back end.

Neil Redfern: 18:50

Oh, I don't. You say you don't. You're working on a website right now, aren't you, Helm? We've all got this on previous podcasts.

Helen Williams: 18:55

Me and my website.

Neil Redfern: 18:56

I'm making fantastic progress.

Helen Williams: 18:59

I did two hours on the first night. I decided I was redoing my website and I've Thought that it'd sense. No, but I have made an arrangement with somebody to come over and help me with it.

Neil Redfern: 19:10

Ooh, watch this space everyone. Oh, wait back back to you, neil.

Helen Williams: 19:14

Anyway, sorry.

Neil Redfern: 19:15

Where were we.

Helen Williams: 19:15

Websites, branding, learning stuff. Oh, rebranding yeah.

Neil Ridley: 19:19

So I rebranded as Neil Ridley Photography, put my prices up, bought a new backdrop for wedding fairs and we just went all out as Neil Ridley Photography and it's gone really really well.

Neil Redfern: 19:29

Yeah, that's brilliant. Actually, we spent two wedding fairs. I know you do quite a few wedding fairs, don't you?

Neil Ridley: 19:34

I've done the national wedding fairs about half a dozen times now.

Intro: 19:37

Yeah, yeah.

Neil Redfern: 19:39

Very mixed results from that This will be something that people will be really keen to hear. I don't know whether they'll like what.

Neil Ridley: 19:45

I'm gonna tell them.

Neil Redfern: 19:46

My only experience of wedding fairs personally is actually helping Helen at her wedding fairs. But your wedding fairs have been regional. I think it's fair to say I said quite big but regional. Well, you've gone for the big, big, nationwide one.

Neil Ridley: 19:58

Yeah, yeah, and I'm not entirely sure how I still feel about them.

Neil Ridley: 20:03

I've fallen out of love with the national wedding show. I always felt that it was very, very expensive. I think we're talking about three or 4,000 pounds to exhibit for a two or three day show. So that includes all your marketing equipment, your hotel costs, obviously, but the stand itself is still very, very expensive. Yeah, yeah, the footfall never really got to where I was hoping it would be. I've had better interactions with people at regional fairs and even the small local fairs, but I never lost money on the national wedding show. I always made a fair bit of cash.

Neil Redfern: 20:34

Oh, it's decent Yeah.

Neil Ridley: 20:36

But it was always sold to me as fill your diary.

Neil Redfern: 20:39

Oh, okay.

Neil Ridley: 20:40

Give us your hard earned money and we will fill your diary for the next two years. No, no, you break even and then pull in maybe three or four extras.

Intro: 20:50

Right, so okay, some people.

Neil Ridley: 20:51

They were filling their diaries, but they no. I don't know, what that says That's interesting.

Helen Williams: 20:56

I've never done any of the.

Neil Redfern: 20:57

I've never even been to one. I don't know.

Helen Williams: 20:59

No, I'd like to go. I think the thing that puts me off is that the stands are so much bigger. I'm just used to rocking up to a hotel with a six foot trestle table, just one screen, couple of albums done, but really to stand out in such a big exhibition arena you need to really put a lot of work and money into making those stands.

Neil Ridley: 21:18

The number one question I got asked at the national wedding show was do you do video? Everybody I spoke to was looking for a combined photo video package.

Neil Redfern: 21:26

Right? Is this relatively recent?

Neil Ridley: 21:28

you're talking here as well. This has been the last three shows that I've done. Okay, this will be the first year in four or five years that I haven't done a national wedding show.

Neil Redfern: 21:38

No, you're very good at wedding fairs. I always think that I just wouldn't. I don't think I'd be great because I'm not very good at making that instant connection with someone who's been walking past.

Helen Williams: 21:44

Oh, I felt it.

Neil Redfern: 21:48

Oh God, helen can do this though.

Helen Williams: 21:50

Yeah, I thoroughly enjoy wedding fairs. I like the banter and the talking and trying to get people's attention and, yeah, I do enjoy them. But I could see why you don't feel so comfortable doing something like that.

Neil Ridley: 22:02

The introvert side of me hates it. Yeah, i really do dislike it, but then again I'm sure you can perform. Oh yeah.

Neil Redfern: 22:09

Yeah, that's a. We all have to do that on a wedding day, really don't we.

Neil Ridley: 22:11

Absolutely it's just part of the business.

Neil Redfern: 22:13

Yeah, you started now as Neil Ridley. She's an organic word of mouth from there.

Neil Ridley: 22:17

Yeah, i've never had a book enough Facebook.

Neil Redfern: 22:19

I was talking to Tony Darcy about this and I've been going 10 years.

Neil Ridley: 22:23

What Tony's been going 12 years? is it Something like?

Intro: 22:25

that, something like that.

Neil Ridley: 22:26

I think he's had a couple of referrals through Facebook friends but never actually booked a wedding through Facebook.

Neil Redfern: 22:31

Neither have I. No, I don't think I have either.

Helen Williams: 22:34

I literally started my whole business through Facebook.

Neil Ridley: 22:36

Yeah, isn't it weird how something works really well for one person how it just gets nothing from somebody else.

Neil Redfern: 22:40

Yeah well saying that that's because you had a particular approach, that Kerry actually spoke about this on his podcast, didn't he? where you would post in local for sale groups.

Helen Williams: 22:49

Yeah, i would just stalk all the local for sale groups And that was at the point where I was a lot cheaper. So you know, i was probably 700, 800 pounds today. But yeah, starting out I completely 100% built my wedding photography business through Facebook groups and just posting in there. But yeah, it's interesting to see that obviously. Yeah, i've probably had in the hundreds or close to 100 from Facebook I'd imagine, and yeah, zero over there, zero.

Neil Redfern: 23:14

And zero for me as well. We spoke to Kerry Lovell about this as well. He said he did the exact same approach. He would be a member of I don't know 20 local for sale groups And every day he would post once a day, i believe I'm saying this I don't know if it's correct, kerry posted once a day and you'd post your advert in that one.

Neil Redfern: 23:30

On Tuesday, wednesday, you're posting that one and blah, blah, blah And you're hitting all the sales of people And I can see how it would work. But I do think it's more of a budget approach, definitely.

Helen Williams: 23:38

Yeah, it was.

Neil Redfern: 23:40

But to get yourself going brilliant.

Helen Williams: 23:41

Yeah, it was very, very good. Yeah, I used to have a list in my notepad of all the different groups And then I would tick it off each day so that I knew that I'd post in them. But yeah, it definitely worked.

Neil Redfern: 23:50

One thing I know about you, though, neil you're very well integrated, i'd say, into the community in the Northwest particularly. Do you know you? look at that, you don't agree? I think you are, And everybody knows you. You've got amazing reputation, yeah, and no one ever, ever has a bad word to say about Neil, do they?

Neil Ridley: 24:04

No, honestly, there you go. I'm sure I've upset a few people. I mean, you know me, i'm bound to have upset a few people in the past, i don't know. I tend to just speak. My mind, though, don't.

Neil Redfern: 24:11

I. But I was gonna say I imagine you've done quite well, maybe from referrals from other photographers over the years, oh yeah, absolutely Yeah and I'm always grateful for those referrals.

Neil Ridley: 24:20

Does that? There's quite a few photographers now that use me as their preferred second shooter. This is what I want to get on through.

Neil Redfern: 24:26

Yeah, second shooting, Shall we go on to that? Yeah, because you've taken an approach that I could see me doing in the future as well. You've now just recently set up a website, haven't you? solely to sell yourself as a second shooter?

Neil Ridley: 24:38

Yeah, i did do the website a dedicated second shooter website but in all honesty, getting the formatting to, i mean we've spoken about this.

Intro: 24:47

I am not a very technical person, but of course the website design.

Neil Ridley: 24:49

To get it to format correctly on a mobile phone, an iPad and a desktop. It was just slightly beyond my means, So I came up with a different system and I integrated it into my existing Neil Ridleycom website. So it's just a page that isn't indexed and it's aimed only Oh. Yeah, that's the thing.

Intro: 25:06

Clever.

Neil Ridley: 25:07

I don't want my clients my wedding photography clients reading it Got you Because I'm quite blunt. You know I'm quite blunt, but I'm quite blunt on my second shooter proposal.

Neil Redfern: 25:15

You are My pitch. Yeah, i'm blunt, aren't I? As you just look at your second shooter website. Hey Neil, it's really really cool. I do love some of the language you've used. So you've got. So why me? I'm a grafter. You won't find me playing on my phone or chatting up the bar staff. Is that true? Definitely.

Neil Ridley: 25:31

I look at myself in the mirror now and I see my big pot belly and I'm like no.

Neil Redfern: 25:35

I'm not going to be hanging off your hip. unless that's what you asked for. I'll be off shooting something else, giving you options for the client. That's really good, i should say as well, just jumping. I've had the pleasure of having Neil second shoot for me a couple of times. I have second shot for Neil as well, and Neil is one of the hardest working photographers I've ever had working with me.

Helen Williams: 25:52

I also have to do a shout out for the infamous drone gate moment.

Neil Redfern: 25:59

Oh, before we start, let's go on, because I think we can never get enough of this.

Helen Williams: 26:02

So has anyone else listened to the podcast?

Neil Redfern: 26:04

We've already heard your pitch, so we hear Neil's version of this story. You want the?

Helen Williams: 26:09

drone gate story from my point of view.

Neil Ridley: 26:11

Yes, Yes, so where were we? Marydale? Yes, i had my second shooting for Helen at Marydale, and it's time for evening couples portraits. This is how I remember it. It's probably not true, but this is how I remember it. Evening couples portraits. The bride and groom were out on the jetty into the lake. Helen's got her drone up in the sky, she's walking towards the couple and she's just about to give some final directions for the shots she's taking.

Neil Ridley: 26:38

And I just heard this landing Beep, beep, beep. I look over to the lake just in time to see your brand new drone Touch down on the water, hover there just for a second and it sank. And the look on your face, sweetheart, oh dear.

Neil Redfern: 26:55

Oh, but it was really nice, though You did try and retrieve it. I believe You did.

Helen Williams: 26:58

Yeah, we tried a few things.

Neil Ridley: 27:00

We had long poles. We used one of my. that's where it is Do the day. I was wandering around the studio and I was thinking I'm missing a sea stand. You know the big heavy duty tripod things. That's where I left it, Merrydale. Oh really, For once I had a sea stand with me at a wedding and I don't know why It must have been in the car or something, But that's what we used to try and fish your drone out.

Neil Redfern: 27:23

So could you see the drone? then, neil, like through the water, you could.

Neil Ridley: 27:27

It was my sunglasses, wasn't it? If you looked through my sunglasses because there were polarised lenses. It took the shine off the water and you could just make out this little Mavic drone bobbing away.

Neil Redfern: 27:39

Oh, and to my knowledge, it's still there now.

Helen Williams: 27:41

Yeah, we've used like yeah, i was like bungee sort of.

Neil Ridley: 27:45

Oh, we tried, everything We tried.

Helen Williams: 27:46

All things in the back of your car And, to be fair, you went fishing for my drone for probably at least an hour and a half in the evening. That was better than working When you could have gone home And yeah, so thank you so much. We were unsuccessful, but you certainly had way more patience than I did?

Neil Ridley: 28:01

We weren't allowed to go swimming, for it were we. No, we were forced, we were going to.

Helen Williams: 28:04

Yeah, there was chemicals in the lake so we couldn't go in. So we set them before.

Neil Redfern: 28:07

If anyone wants a free drone, go to Murad El Manor with scuba gear.

Intro: 28:11

It's yours.

Neil Redfern: 28:13

So it's coming back to your website here, neil, your second shooter one You've got here. I love this bit. I'm not a d***. I know when to talk and when to shut the f*** up. I won't be embarrassing you or your business. I'm not bad with the cameras. I've won a few half decent awards over the years. Yes, you have. So let's just say what is it that really floats your boat about second shooting, neil? You?

Neil Ridley: 28:32

get all the fun of the fair, but there's no pressure.

Neil Ridley: 28:34

I mean there is pressure, but it's not the same as being the primary No the primary's got a lot to worry about And if you're in the position where you need a second shooter, you don't want to be worrying about what the second shooter is up to. You need to know that he's got your back, he's done the detail shots, he's capturing the moments that you're not seeing because you're dealing with the bride and groom. Yes, i know from having second shooters myself. I'm going to give a shout out. Can I do that?

Neil Ridley: 28:55

Of course Carl Chester. If anybody wants a second shooter and I'm not available, message Carl Chester. He is my absolute go-to guy.

Neil Redfern: 29:04

Oh I love that.

Neil Ridley: 29:05

We do not even communicate during a wedding. He knows exactly where to be, and that's what I want to be for somebody else. That's brilliant. I don't want them wondering where's Neil? What's he up to? Has he got this? Has he got that? I just want to be able to walk past the guy. Yeah, nailed it, mate, Don't worry.

Neil Redfern: 29:20

Yeah, And that's what I've always felt when I've had you working with me that I know that if I don't see you, you're doing something, and it's always really nice to know that someone's covering you. Yeah, it's reassuring. And not getting the same stuff as well.

Neil Ridley: 29:32

There's nothing worse than seconds being on your hip. Yes, What's the point Exactly? You want them to get in an angle that you haven't got, or being in a different part of the building or on the ground somewhere. You don't need the same shot from a slightly different angle, Totally yeah, i'm sure that's going to be a massive success.

Neil Redfern: 29:49

You say it's already working because it's very new isn't it?

Neil Ridley: 29:53

I'm pushing it harder now. It's a yes, but I'm still doing 30 or 40 second shoots this year.

Neil Redfern: 29:59

Oh, wow.

Neil Ridley: 30:00

There's one of the guys that's very well known for the video side of things. I get on really well with him. He booked me for 15 sessions.

Neil Redfern: 30:08

Wow, that's brilliant Just in one go. Excellent.

Neil Ridley: 30:12

It's nice to know that it's there if you want it.

Neil Redfern: 30:16

Of course. No, i remember us talk about this and think, and I've said before I would be very tempted to be a professional second shooter, for the reasons you've already said. You've not got that pressure. You. Can you feel a bit creatively free? Yeah, you can try different things.

Neil Ridley: 30:30

You get the safe shot, but then you can try something completely different And I've moved on from like just waving a crystal in front of the lens. now it's reflections and refractions that naturally occur.

Intro: 30:39

Yeah, use a phanto frame. Use a table.

Neil Ridley: 30:41

Use a table leg, get under the table, get under the chair, try something completely different that the primary hasn't got the time to do.

Neil Redfern: 30:48

And I will say as well and I know I've said this on the, on the test, but I'm going to give you for that website. But one of the things about having you with me is it's annoying. You look at your picture. You think better than mine, like that, the one that you've got on your website of that guest lifting up.

Neil Ridley: 31:00

Oh, yes, i didn't get that. I didn't get that And you were there. That took about five minutes to do. You haven't got time. Yeah, you're busy doing a couple of shoots.

Intro: 31:07

Whereas.

Neil Ridley: 31:08

I could see that moment developing, and it was developing slowly because that guy was lifting another wedding guest above his head, literally.

Neil Redfern: 31:14

Yeah, and the guy was like Superman in the air. He was holding him.

Neil Ridley: 31:17

Yeah, but he dropped in maybe five times I see that bit. So, but none of those pictures really worked out, but the one that I do use as that cover, that's the one. Yeah, it's really cool.

Helen Williams: 31:28

Yeah, i will say yeah, I'm someone who used to do a lot of second shooting and it's, you know, it's certainly helped me grow my business and sort of understand more about weddings is a fantastic thing. I've certainly stopped since sort of like burnout time during sort of post COVID. But yeah, even I'm thinking or maybe maybe I should start picking it back up again. It's certainly, you know, it's good money, so you know it's a good fun day. It's not just that.

Neil Ridley: 31:54

It's not just a few hundred quid for a day's work. It's building those connections with other established photographers Totally From a purely mercenary point of view. If they can't cover a wedding, they're more likely to recommend the guy that they use as a second shooter, Without a doubt. Yeah, very true, it does pay off to do that as well. I've made you know. I've picked up quite a few weddings from guys that I've second shot for that haven't been able to complete a date. They've just got to give it to Neil. Refer Neil recommend Neil.

Neil Redfern: 32:20

Yeah, so you say you're doing 35, 40 this year, second shooting on.

Neil Ridley: 32:25

I can't give you exact number off the time.

Neil Redfern: 32:27

I think it's 42 maybe On top of how many of your own this year 39.

Neil Ridley: 32:34

Oh, you're a machine.

Helen Williams: 32:36

Yeah, this is me post, COVID, yeah.

Neil Ridley: 32:39

I'm going to be honest. A lot of my weddings this year are the tail end of my budget. Weddings from. Can we say that on a podcast? Yeah, the clients aren't going to listen, are they? No, i used to do a sub thousand pound digital only package, okay, and I pushed that quite heavily at the local wedding fairs And if I thought that the client wouldn't go for a full package. So the nine 50 package proved very, very popular. I'm just finishing off some of them. So a lot of that is just return up, shoot, go home.

Neil Ridley: 33:07

Yeah dead easy work. There's no pre wedding shoots involved. There's no included albums to design. They're all extras, they're cell ones.

Neil Redfern: 33:14

When we arrived at the studio. Today you have me. Well, i think I was molding more than you were, helen, but we both shot away on Saturday And, for those that are aware that the time of recording is, it's crazy hot in the UK, well, i know there'll be people listening from across the pond, as it were, that will laugh at this, but like it's been like mid 20s, which for us is is really hot, and I was like, oh, it's too hot, i'm really struggling. I was like a zombie. On Sunday arrived at the studio, neil just said he's shot six weddings in six.

Neil Ridley: 33:40

Weddings in eight days.

Neil Redfern: 33:42

And I had two studio shoots in the middle of that. Wow, you had your wieta bit.

Helen Williams: 33:48

Yeah, you, you're doing all this, you know you do. Any second shoot says you've got your own very busy sort of wedding business. And here we are, you know, sat in this incredible studio The money pit, the money pit.

Neil Ridley: 34:00

Yeah, the money pit, but what a?

Helen Williams: 34:02

fantastic space. I don't even know how. You even have time to go. Do you know what? I'm just going to get a studio as well.

Neil Redfern: 34:08

Well, i can remember going back a little bit. You had a little studio, didn't you, in Clitheroam.

Neil Ridley: 34:12

Oh, I had a room. Yeah, I had a high street store. basically, It was literally a shop window, wasn't it?

Neil Redfern: 34:20

But it was a very good location.

Neil Ridley: 34:21

It was a great location. There was a lot of thought went into that because if you think about it, what is it? There's 19 good venues within five square miles of Clithero. Yeah, I mean there's just been a TV show about it.

Neil Redfern: 34:32

Wedding.

Neil Ridley: 34:33

Valley.

Helen Williams: 34:34

I was on it for about for about three seconds.

Neil Ridley: 34:40

Blinking, you miss it And I'm gone.

Neil Redfern: 34:42

TV star.

Neil Ridley: 34:44

I've seen on TV my new tag line Yeah, clithero is like a hotbed for weddings. It is, and there's some cracking photographers in Clithero. I mean, look at Dave Skolls, the guys are genius. I love his work. Once again, i'm a bit of a fanboy for Dave Skolls.

Helen Williams: 34:58

Yeah.

Neil Redfern: 34:58

Every now and again.

Neil Ridley: 34:59

I'll see something on social media and then I'll message Dave going. Mate, that's amazing. You know I love your work, yeah.

Intro: 35:05

Yeah, he's sick of the stalking now.

Neil Ridley: 35:07

But anyway, I mean, Dave doesn't have a high street presence. No, there are, no, no. I don't know Nobody else with a high street presence, so my studio and sort of storefront was 100 yards from Holmesville.

Intro: 35:21

Yeah, that's first on the main road going into.

Neil Ridley: 35:23

Clithero. If you were going into Clithero to view a venue, you had to drive past my storefront. So even though it was unoccupied a fair bit of the time, you still had to see it on your way through And I picked up quite a few weddings from there. I mean, there's what? four wedding dress shops, two, mother of the bride shops, all the things.

Neil Redfern: 35:42

Exactly, yeah, so you went from there to this amazing studio that we're in now, which is huge.

Neil Ridley: 35:47

Yeah, it's just over 2,000 square feet. I mean, what was that? the size of a five-side football pitch? I don't know.

Neil Redfern: 35:53

I mean if I always watched my YouTube channel, i've already made probably five or six videos here now. So thank you again for that. And it's brilliant because there's lots of different areas to it. It's a huge space. Some of it's quite dark, some of it's quite light. Neil's got lots of different backdrops, lots of props, and it's just brilliant to come and play around with And I love doing it. And, again, that's why we're here today Gonna be making a couple of videos with my friends, demi and James. So how did this come about?

Neil Ridley: 36:16

Like, it's a vanity project really. Let's be honest. I mean, i picked this up in May last year and I didn't even open the doors to a paying customer until November. I think I've shown you pictures of what this place looked like when I picked it up.

Neil Redfern: 36:30

I remember the before and afters. It was like what It looked derelict It did. I mean it's not much better now. No, it is It really is.

Neil Ridley: 36:37

It looked derelict when I got it And in between shooting weddings and all the home improvements that I've started and failed to finish, I was trying to get this place. I mean, if you look how high the ceilings are, I had to paint from the top all the way down to the bottom. It's um you painted the whole shebang right.

Neil Redfern: 36:53

Yeah, yeah, Wow.

Neil Ridley: 36:54

Yeah, i had to put scaffolding. You can't see it on the podcast, but the building has like three sections with girders going across, so I had to build the scaffolding in section one. Paint all this, take the scaffolding down, move it across, build it up again.

Helen Williams: 37:10

Wow, this is a real later, so I'm being adequate in this podcast.

Neil Redfern: 37:14

I've got to paint my head height, and that'd be it. I bought a paint sprayer. It was the best investment ever. Now that's genius, yeah, so do you stud here?

Neil Ridley: 37:23

No, i had to go all the way up there. I mean, it's, how high is this ceiling? Three meters, easy, easy. I would say. Yeah, i fell off the scaffolding.

Intro: 37:31

I was on my own.

Neil Ridley: 37:32

It was about oh God, it was about 11 o'clock at night and I slipped and fell and knocked myself out just where that stool was Waking up on the cold concrete floor. I was a bit nervous about that.

Neil Redfern: 37:40

Your labor of love has all paid off. It looks beautiful now, and what are the longer term plans for the studio Closure?

Neil Ridley: 37:48

I want the money back. No, i've just launched dog portrait shoots, of all things Brilliant. Well, as you know, we picked up Bailey in January and I am completely besotted with Labrador.

Neil Redfern: 38:00

She is beautiful.

Neil Ridley: 38:01

She's the most photographed dog in the history of the world And I thought, well, why not, let's see if we can make a few quid out of this Love that? So I put a few pictures of Bailey out there. I've invited some friends to bring their hounds in. We've taken pictures of that Literally only just launched it on Facebook 24 hours ago Amazing. Brilliant. There are a lot of fantastic dog photographers out there.

Neil Redfern: 38:23

How easy is it to shoot dogs then in a studio environment. You know that old adage about never work with children or animals.

Neil Ridley: 38:29

Yeah, It's hard. Dogs are confused. They don't know what the hell is going on For a 30 minute session. I just play with the dogs for 20 minutes Just a minute They'll play with me, and then they'll trust me enough to sit still and catch the treats that I toss to them.

Helen Williams: 38:43

So I'm wondering is someone who has conquered the wedding world And you've got all that down. You've got all your awards and businesses that are doing really well. You've now started the studio. Do you have any hints or tips for anyone who is thinking of making the change as well, or is looking at thinking to slow down a wedding business and maybe moving into studio photography? Is there any big difference? That is a really really good question.

Neil Ridley: 39:06

I wish somebody had asked me that years ago, because there's a very simple answer If you don't have bookings already for a studio, don't buy a studio, rent one Because I'm paying for this. It sounds very negative. I'm paying every month for this, whether I'm using it or not, and in the busy wedding months it's just sitting empty. It is available to rent, but I've still got to be around to open up and lock up afterwards.

Intro: 39:30

Yeah.

Neil Ridley: 39:31

If you don't have the bookings already for a studio based business? just rent a studio, just borrow somebody else's. Once you get to the point where you're using it more than the owner, that's when you should get your own.

Helen Williams: 39:41

That's a really very good point.

Neil Redfern: 39:43

It is as well. Yeah, it's very good. Just to say, if anyone does want to book this, then you can find Neil Studio at Neil Ridley Studio on Instagram, and I've said this before in my YouTube videos. I'll say it again now. It is amazing. I think it's brilliant for anyone, especially those that are interested in flash. Yeah, come along to a studio and just try things out. That's what I'll be doing today. That's what I've done before here. Just experiment and you can take what you learn in the studio into your wedding work, and it's a great place to learn. I would definitely encourage people to do it all the time and just spend the day. It doesn't matter what the weather's like. You can replicate the indoor environment of a wedding venue here and practice. It's so key that people practice and there's no better space than something like this, like a blank canvas.

Helen Williams: 40:25

And Neil's really kitted it out so well. You've got all the different backdrops. You've got so many different lights and stands as well. I don't even know where you've accumulated these Facebook marketplace, would you believe.

Neil Ridley: 40:35

Also, there's a chap in your Patreon group called Steve Hargreaves who donated an awful lot of really, really expensive equipment that we use for the camera club.

Neil Redfern: 40:44

We've got. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, it was lovely.

Neil Ridley: 40:46

Him and his wife are absolutely brilliant And we've still got a lot of that equipment here that needs to be put into play, but the camera club really, really appreciate that.

Neil Redfern: 40:54

So you think the camera. Who were the camera club then?

Neil Ridley: 40:56

So on a Thursday night we have a bunch of enthusiastic amateur locals that come along. It's not a teaching session, because there's no way I'm ever going to be a teacher, But they can come in. They can play around with all the camera gear, all the flash gear. I put on a model. They pay a small fee just to cover the model And that's it.

Neil Redfern: 41:14

That's so good. Just go back to you how given and supportive you are. That's a really nice thing And that's every week, every week, every Thursday night.

Neil Ridley: 41:22

We've had a little break during the peak wedding season, but we're going back into it next Thursday. It was a little bit awkward in winter because, as you know, this studio gets a little bit cold.

Neil Redfern: 41:32

You have the world. I'm looking at now the world's biggest heater that looks like a cannon The beast Yeah.

Neil Ridley: 41:38

Yeah, the beast comes in handy, but the beast is very noisy. So for next winter we are building a couple of extra walls and we've got a wood burning stove being fitted. So that'll be nice and quiet, and that'll pump out a lot of heat.

Helen Williams: 41:51

Love it So we can use the studio all year round.

Neil Ridley: 41:53

Yeah, Fantastic.

Helen Williams: 41:55

So if anyone wanted to hire the studio as well, are they able to use some of the equipment? if it was someone who hadn't done studio before?

Neil Ridley: 42:01

Absolutely. It's all included in the price There's, we think. We've got strobes, we've got backdrops, we've got constant lights, we've got video lights, we've got LED lights, we've got reflectors, furniture, props Everything is in here and it's all included.

Helen Williams: 42:18

That's amazing because I think for those people who are looking to maybe go to or towards studio, or have only really shot mainly outdoors in natural light, you know you wouldn't really know where to even start with studio, let alone wanting to invest lots of money in purchasing all of that.

Neil Ridley: 42:34

It's really not cheap setting up a studio, but I love it. I absolutely love playing in. This is my man cave.

Neil Redfern: 42:39

Yeah, i've got to say you can tell how envious that you are for it.

Neil Ridley: 42:42

Yeah, it's the biggest man cave I've ever seen 2000 square foot of just me space. Yeah, I love me and the dog.

Neil Redfern: 42:48

Yeah, no, i love it. And so finish off, Neil. this has been brilliant, so thank you. Are there any? what be your one or two tips you would give? if I want to start now? wedding photography. Obviously, you've done so much. You know a lot about the industry. What if you were starting out tomorrow? What do you think you would? what would you do?

Neil Ridley: 43:05

I would find a photographer whose work I really liked and I would pester them, and pester them, and pester them until they let me go along and shoot a wedding with them, or just carry their bags and watch how they worked. Yeah, that's great advice. That would be my absolute number one. Number two is don't buy that bit of kit. You don't need it.

Neil Redfern: 43:23

Yes, master, what you've got. I don't like this one. I like doing that.

Neil Ridley: 43:28

Shiny things. Everybody loves a new shiny. But if you think about it, there's two shelf racks over there filled with shiny stuff that?

Neil Redfern: 43:36

Oh no, I agree, Yeah, yeah.

Neil Ridley: 43:39

We've all got that box of shame of stuff that we've bought that we've never actually used, but you don't want to throw it away because it might come in handy one day. Exactly, just master what you've got.

Neil Redfern: 43:47

You don't need that next bit of kit And you're saying about how you would try and pester people to second shoot, for I imagine you've learned a lot from other people.

Neil Ridley: 43:54

you've worked with, i've learned a lot. second shooting Yeah, i've been the same, yeah.

Neil Redfern: 43:58

I always, whoever you work for you, always pick something up, don't you think? oh, that's clever. Yeah, definitely, and they'll shoot in different ways, yeah everybody shoots in a slightly different manner.

Neil Ridley: 44:07

Some photographers that shoot for they don't really care what I deliver. The client wants a second shooter for green prep. So once I've nailed green prep, you're free. It's a free day, you shoot what you like. Others want me to shoot two or three thousand pictures during the day. Some want ten, fifteen thousand, and that was. That was a bit of a shock when I was shooting for some day I actually asked him told you how many shots?

Neil Ridley: 44:27

they want. Shoot more, shoot more. That's what you need to do. Shoot more, just shoot through the moment, stick it on high speed and burst through. Wow, that was a bit of a shock, because I don't normally shoot that way. No, I will shoot maybe three or four in a burst of a moment. I go yeah, got that.

Helen Williams: 44:41

Who's doing that Culling? Not me.

Neil Ridley: 44:45

And that's another beautiful thing about second shooting.

Intro: 44:47

Yeah, you ain't culling.

Neil Ridley: 44:48

Yeah, no editing, no culling, just hand over the cards and walk away.

Helen Williams: 44:52

Wow.

Neil Redfern: 44:52

Oh, that's great advice, neil. Again, before we finish, thank you again for allowing us to come to your studio, for all the help you've given me personally, for allowing me to use your studio, being so kind, so supportive, all the time, absolutely more than well. I always appreciate it Again. Hashtag team Neil Team Neil.

Helen Williams: 45:07

Team Neil, i don't. I'll finish saying I like you both.

Neil Redfern: 45:12

Oh, that was a clickbait copper. I know It was a copper. People have waited an hour for that.

Helen Williams: 45:18

Yeah, they were all at the end going who's going to be Helen's favourite, neil at the end. But I've still got quite a few hours to spend with both of you because we're doing a YouTube video, so at the moment I'm going to be nice to you both. But, yeah, thank you. So so much also for joining the Flashmasters community.

Neil Redfern: 45:33

Yes, and congratulations on all your awards. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure seeing your work all the time. It's amazing.

Helen Williams: 45:39

Gold and silver and all these. Yeah, we've had some stunning Boudoir shots.

Neil Redfern: 45:44

Yeah, but you can't use them anywhere, can you? No, you'll never see them, unless you're a Flashmasters member.

Helen Williams: 45:49

Yeah, there's quite a few awards. I think that you've picked up that aren't going on to the Instagram page, but they are worthy and fantastic. I always put a smile on my face.

Neil Redfern: 45:59

Yeah, so thank you so much for joining us, Neil. If you would like to join us and Neil in the Flashmasters community, you can do so at flashmastersco. We would love to have you. But thanks again, Neil. We really enjoy this one We have. Thank you for listening and we will see you in the next one. Keep flashing Keep me up.