Beauty in the Brokenness- Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)
Welcome to Beauty in the Brokenness—where we have honest conversations about the Bible, our real-life struggles, and the hope God brings for healing. This podcast is hosted by Teresa Whiting, an author, Bible teacher, and trauma-informed life coach, but mostly, a friend and fellow struggler. No matter who you are, or where you’ve been, you're invited to encounter the God of rescue, redemption, and restoration—The God who is still creating beauty— right in the midst of your brokenness. To learn more visit: https://teresawhiting.com/listen
Beauty in the Brokenness- Christian Women (Bible Study, Faith, Sexuality, Freedom from Shame)
How Beauty Can Be the Start of Your Story with Curt Thompson, MD - Part 2 (SEEN SERIES)
What if your story doesn't begin with brokenness, but with beauty? Curt Thompson, MD returns to challenge our fundamental understanding of the gospel narrative, reminding us that Genesis 1 - not Genesis 3 - is where our story truly begins. This profound conversation reveals how recognizing our original design as beings created for beauty and relationship can transform our approach to healing from trauma. If you haven't heard Part 1 yet, you can listen to it here.
Click here for show notes and to connect with Curt Thompson, MD.
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Some of us think that the gospel begins in Genesis 3, that this is where the Bible starts. It starts with like we're broken people, right, that's how it starts, right. And it turns out the Bible actually begins in the beginning and not like three chapters in Right right. So, this is important for us to recognize that for our listeners, who are like feeling like we're being buried in our own story of trauma, like it is important for us to hear that your story began with beauty and goodness and that has not changed.
Speaker 2:Today I'm continuing my conversation with Dr Kurt Thompson. Last week he shared the importance of what it means to be seen how storytelling helps us heal, and he also shared a beautiful perspective on the story of the bleeding woman. If you haven't heard part one yet, you've got to go back and listen to that first. Welcome to Beauty and the Brokenness, where we have honest conversations about the Bible, our real-life struggles and the hope God brings for healing. I'm your host, teresa Whiting, an author, bible teacher and trauma-informed life coach, but mostly a friend and fellow struggler. No matter who you are or where you've been, I'm inviting you to encounter the God of rescue, redemption and restoration. You to encounter the God of rescue, redemption and restoration, the God who is still creating beauty right in the midst of your brokenness.
Speaker 1:This whole notion of telling our stories in this way is what it means to be human. It's not, oh, the thing that I have to do or the only option that I have in order for me to be healed. Right, the woman with the bleeding problem? The telling of her story was not just well, this is the only option Jesus is giving me in order for me to be fully healed. No, he's turning her into the person that she was to have been from before the foundation of the world the telling of her story. And so this is risky business when evil doesn't want us doing this. This was the mission for Adam and Eve in Genesis, chapters one and two. We get to chapter three. We're going to.
Speaker 1:Evil wants to corrupt the storytelling mechanism, not just as a story, the storytelling mechanism, how we tell it, and so it is hard to do this, and it is the most glorious thing that we will do, and so a simple way to be would be like okay, can we think of one person that you trust enough, not that you trust comprehensively. Nobody is comprehensively trustworthy. I'm not. Do I trust enough to say I would really love I have a Bible study from Teresa. I would love for you to do this with me, and could we do this and tell our stories to each other? One person, one person. Can I take that Bible study and let the Bible study be a guide, right, so I can have a go-between, we can have help along the way. We can do this. Can I tell you my story? And that would mean I'm going to take 20 minutes and I'm going to tell you everything that I can tell you about myself, beginning from when I was young up till now, and then I'm going to invite you to do the same thing, and we just want to sit with those stories and see what is it like? What do I hear, what do I sense, what do I feel, what do I think? What's my sense of those kinds of things? How can I be curious about your story without being condemning, right? So I'm going to think of one person that I can trust enough. I'm going to use Teresa's Bible study as a mediation, right, as something that helps us do this. We're going to take 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:We're not just going to, like, do the Bible study, we're not just going to talk about the Bible, we are going to talk with each other. We're great at talking about things Far more scary to talk with each other, but once you find one person who says, okay, we've done this, is there somebody that you know and that I know that we would like to invite into this dyad. There will now be four of us. We're going to do this, we're going to. Does this feel like, oh well, gosh, that hurt. Like where am I going to find these people? Look, these people are here. The people are here right. There are those in the world who want to do this work. We pray for it, we ask for it and we take risks, and someone's going to say, no, I think that's a ridiculous idea and that's not going to feel good. And Jesus will say I know exactly what this is like.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:They're going to have their own version of I got to go bury my dad, I got to go, like, check out the plot of land, or other people are Like you'll start down that path and you will think, oh, this is going to do well. And then they're like why did you do that? That just doesn't like. Or they're going to want to fix you automatically, All the things you're like okay, I guess you're not really ready to do this with me, Right? So we're going to try this and we're going to keep trying, yes, and we're going to keep praying, but also like this again, just to acknowledge to our listeners that one of the reasons why the work that you're doing like creating a Bible study, for instance it creates, it creates a handle, it creates like something I can stand on, that gives me a way to have language for it, have imagery for the kind of storytelling that we want to do, so that we can continue with the business of telling the story about God's intention to bring a world of beauty and goodness into being.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. One of the things I say about the Bible study is my desire is to open up a conversation Like when.
Speaker 2:I wrote, graced, you know it was about six women in scripture that were experienced sexual brokenness and and it was like let's do this study and open up a conversation with each other about our own stories of sexual brokenness and and even just having that, like you said, kind of a handhold of. We've got these women in scripture that have walked this path before us, got these women in scripture that have walked this path before us. We have their stories and then now we have each other and, like you said, there are going to be safe people in the group and maybe even starting with one. I think is really a good idea. But, as you were describing that I was thinking about, my husband has a group of men that he is working with in a discipleship setting and one of the things that he's doing this year is he's having them come in and share their life story and every time he does it, I think the men say that was my favorite part, that was the best part, was hearing each other's stories, being able to tell my story, and there was one person in particular who just shared their story and their wife was saying that was so healing, that was so like, it was so good for him and I think every wife would say that like that was so good for my husband, because I think especially men and I might be stereotyping, but I think typically men are not nearly as open to sharing their stories as women.
Speaker 2:I think women naturally gravitate toward you know, they want to tell their stories and I think having that space for men is so beautiful. I love what you were describing there and one of the things you say in the Soul of Desire is that you connect this longing to be known with a longing for beauty and and I love that um how the word good in scripture is is synonymous with with beauty, or interchangeable with beauty.
Speaker 2:But can you explain how our longing to be known is like coincides with the longing for beauty?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I, I think you know again. Um, you can just look at human development, uh, without the bible, and we can say, oh yeah, by the time kids get to a certain age you know, two and a half three, three and a half four without being told, without being instructed to, they just start to make things. And they don't want to. They make things with great joy and they bring it to us. As you know, they're proud of what they've made. There is this felt sense that you know, we don't even know what this thing is right that they're making, but they've handed it to us and they have this felt sense that there is something about this thing that they have made that is really lovely. There's something that's good about this thing that they've made. And the only way, at that time, perhaps, that we're able to communicate without them is the joy that we express to them in receiving this thing, of which we have no idea what it is right. We don't know what this thing is, but then you know what this, how, what this does, of course, like they, they can't address, and we joyfully receive it, and then they turn around, go off and they make, then they make more of it, right.
Speaker 1:So, just looking at development, we are people who want to make things, people who want to make things, and the things that we want to make, we want them to be beautiful. We want them to be things that other people look at and are struck by, right? We talk about beauty. As you know people who've written philosophically about this and theologically about this, you know they're far smarter than me about these things beautiful language, about these kinds of things. But some things that we would say about beauty in and of itself is that it is something of wonder, like. When we see something that is beauty, we wonder at it. The second thing is that it is welcoming, right, it's not stingy with itself. The second thing is that it is welcoming, right, it invites. It's not stingy with itself. A sunset does not say no, only you two people get to look at me. No, like like y'all, y'all come, y'all come, right, and then it is. It leads us like, it buckles us, right, it leads us to worship this sense of like. Oh my gosh, this is the felt sense that there is something here that is beyond me. I could, I'm like I'm looking out a window right now as we're talking. I'm looking out a window at an oak tree. That must be probably somewhere in the 100 to 150 year age. You know, it's utterly gorgeous, right, like I can't do that, like I can't make that thing, I couldn't even come up with the idea, let alone right, right. And so there is this.
Speaker 1:These, these things that happen, and we sense this and we don't have to get to the bible yet. But when you then look at the bible we would say that god on the first page, like he makes humans in his image, male and female. He talked an awful lot about that, male and female. We could talk an awful lot about that, male and female. But what does that mean, to be in God's image? It means a number of things, but one of the first things is is that what is God doing on the first page of the Bible? He's making things. He is a God also of great longing, right Days, one through five, and God said let there be, and there was. Let the, and it was.
Speaker 1:You'd think the same thing would happen on day six, that he would say let there be human beings and there were human beings. But he doesn't. There is a pause in the conversation and he gathers the divine council and he says to all gathered around shall we do this? And you can imagine considering what's coming when they see Genesis 4 coming, where our brother murders his brother, and they say we're going to do this, anyway, we're doing this. He has longing for us. It's not just we're not just made automatically, we're not just made on impulse. There is longing for us and so that's not like we are made in his image. We are longing preachers, but we are longing to be artists. We are longing to make things, and so that's also like we are made in his image. We are longing preachers, but we are longing to be artists. We are longing to make things. And so this longing that we have to be seen, to be sued, to be safe, to be secure, to be launched into the world, we do so in order to go make things, in order for us to experience and become the beauty that God has originally thought.
Speaker 1:From the first two pages of the Bible, that mission has not changed.
Speaker 1:Some of us think that the gospel begins in Genesis 3, that this is where the Bible starts.
Speaker 1:It starts with like we're broken people, right, that's how it starts, right.
Speaker 1:And it turns out the Bible actually begins in the beginning and not like three chapters in Right right. So this is important for us to recognize that legal, for for our listeners who are, who are like feeling like we're being buried in our own story of trauma, like it is important for us to hear that your story began with beauty and goodness and that has not. Now, some of us have a hard time imagining how that could be possible, given the realities of our world, which is why we who are heralds of the gospel, we Jesus followers, are his body, are his bone, are his blood, are his voice, are his hands, are his ears, enabling people to tell their story so that, in the telling, they can have the experience of being known and therefore catching the glimpse of what it means for them to become icons of beauty and then go on to create beauty and goodness in the world. We like to say that what we are doing is we are imagining for people while their imaginations are trying to catch up.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love that. I love that you pointed out that the gospel starts in Genesis 1, like with God creating us for Him, for relationship being with him, and then Genesis 3 happens and for me I feel like the whole gospel is the rest of the story. Is God going?
Speaker 1:after his kids. He wants us, he wants his kids back, he wants relationship with us, and that's the whole story and I just love that and I don't want to.
Speaker 2:I don't want to skip right to starting with sin, but starting with no. You're made created hand-knit by God, who loves you and wants relationship with you.
Speaker 1:I love how you said that it is really hard to believe this. This is the thing. I don't want to skip over the fact that it is easy for us who have had some contact with the Spirit painting of the enunciation of mary sitting on the bed and this brilliant, bright shaft of light that's in the foreground. It is the angel that she's like.
Speaker 1:Not everyone has had that felt sense, and so we can name these things, even on this podcast, we can name these things and sometimes it's easy for us to think that just because we said it, therefore, it's just easy for people to take these words in and make it be true. And it's really like evil has no, like evil doesn't want this podcast happening. Evil doesn't want people to like hear this and begin to wonder is that possible? Possible because so much of our neural payload is so embedded with memory of the terror, of intimacy that even when we say no, this is possible, life begins in genesis one. I want to want to believe it, and so for those of us who find that really hard, we would say, yeah, of course. Of course it's hard. So for those of us who find that really hard, we would say, yeah, of course, of course it's hard, and it is still true, and it's hard, and it is still true, and we are unapologetic about this.
Speaker 2:Yes, Thank you for having that sensitivity to the listeners, because I'm sure there are people who are saying exactly that Like this is all nice and good for you to say, but it's not my experience, it's not my reality.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. One of the things that you do so beautifully is the merging of the neurobiology with scripture, with a biblical worldview, and one of the things that you've talked about and I've heard this well, whether in your books or on your podcast is like how we can rewire our brains to even be able to receive and accept this kind of information. There are practices like there's practical things we can do when we say, no, I can't go there, I don't get this. Like there's practical things we can do when we say, no, I can't go there. I don't get this. Like there are some things that we can do and I know we don't have time to get into a lot, but are there some simple things that you can suggest to listeners who are saying I want to believe that reality, but I don't even know where to start? Like that's not my reality. I don't even know where to start, like that's not my reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the first thing to know is that the most durably beautiful things in the world take the longest time to make. That's important. The snowflake is incredibly beautiful. It forms and goes away in less than half a second. The Grand Canyon different story. So we're not just talking about the most beautiful things. The most beautifully durable things, the most durably beautiful things take a long time to make. So, first of all, it's important to know that these new neural networks, in order for them to be durably formed, take practice. That's one thing to say ahead of time. This does not happen overnight, but it can happen. For example, we would say all habits, whether good or bad, are fairly fully formed within six weeks, but it takes at least six weeks of practice. Mm-hmm, If I wanna be good at playing the piano, it means that I'm going to practice for 15 minutes every day and that will get me farther down the road, more effectively, more durably, than practicing for two hours once a week.
Speaker 1:Okay so that's important to know. Number two the brain. You know we've learned in the last 30 years about the brain's capacity for making changes that when I was in medical school we didn't think really could happen was in medical school. We didn't think really could happen. When I was in medical school, if I was on the neurology unit and you had a stroke, you were in the hospital for six weeks and we sent you home and said good luck. Now, if you have a stroke, we send you from the neurology unit to a rehab facility where, 10 hours a day, every day of the week, you will be doing small little things in order to begin to recruit other neurons from your central nervous system that have never had to do the kinds of things that they're doing, because we now realize that the brain can actually recruit new neural networks to do new things. If you tell your story to someone and you get to the part where you're really vulnerable and frightened because you're about to say something that feels really shamed of, that you've only ever felt ashamed of, and you take the risk of naming this to Teresa, and what you see and sense and hear with Teresa is not condemnation but loving kindness, what you're doing in that very moment is that you are allowing your mind to bring together the experience of your shame and the experience of loving kindness, and that is a felt sense that you have in your body, and it is also an act that turns on those networks in your brain that represent your sense of well-being, networks that have never been turned on ever before because they've only ever been entangled with shame. That's the only meaning I've ever given to this thing about my life. That happened to me when I was 13. When that happens and then I'm going to come back and have another conversation with Teresa next week and the following week, and so forth and so on or with my good friends to whom I'm telling my story that we talked about earlier we find that I am practicing creating new, durable neural networks in a fresh way, right, so that's part of how we're doing this. So, neuroplasticity, right, we're going to take a long time. We're going to practice this little by little, and here are some things that we can begin.
Speaker 1:Number one pick one story. Like I said, I love like again, the resource of your Bible study just continues to like, just bear fruit here, any of these women's stories. Take the story of the scripture and I want, I would invite you to read the story and then imagine yourself being that character. Imagine yourself being that character without judgment, without analysis, without you know, and just like. What would it be like for me to? What do I feel If I were the woman in Mark, chapter five, with the bleeding problem? I'm the woman with the bleeding problem. What do I find myself feeling? What if I were a person in the crowd watching this happen? What would I feel when I watched Jesus coming for her? What do I start to sense? Allow myself to become a character in the text. Right, just do it Like. For those of us, I don't know how many of our listeners have heard of or listened to the TV online series the Chosen Right, there is the episode where Jesus encounters the woman in John 4, encounters the woman at the well. Like unbelievable. When you watch that episode, what is it like if you're the person who's having that conversation with the king at the well? What is it like for you? So that's one thing. We're going to allow ourselves to be part of stories that help our story take on a different kind of experience.
Speaker 1:Second, the practice of Christian meditation. There are any number of scriptural texts when we imagine the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want it's the first verse of the 23rd Psalm the Lord is my shepherd. If I were to meditate, if I were to picture, I shall not want it's the first verse of the 23rd Psalm the Lord is my shepherd. If I were to meditate, if I were to picture I'm a sheep and the Lord is my shepherd, what does it mean for him to be my shepherd? I'm just going to imagine I'm like I'm walking in a field with him. He's got his arm around me. Ooh, that feels like really the king, king. And then he walks you to a place and you walk if you were to walk through that text, imagining me being the person who's being walked by Jesus through the valley of the shadow of death. And then you come to this place where there is a picnic table spread with your favorite picnic lunch, all the things, so scriptural texts on which to meditate Not to analyze, but to meditate.
Speaker 1:And then I would say then, this idea of stories that we've been talking about already by whom am I going to be heard on a regular basis?
Speaker 1:There's going to be a cadence of someone hearing my story, and you know, one thing that we sometimes will do or say is like well, you know, I've already told that person that story, and we like to say that, as far as the brain is concerned, you never tell the same story twice Ever, because if I've told you my story a week ago, I've given you the facts on the ground. If I come back and tell you the same story now, the reality is I'm actually talking to a person who I know knows this at some level, and so I'm already telling a story about like well, teresa's probably going to get bored because, like she's already heard this, which, of course, shame is coming back around to try to reinforce itself. And so now, the telling of my story is now yet the next verse in the song that I have to tell. Even though I think it's the same thing, it's never the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, oh, kurt, I feel like we could talk for two more hours, but I know we have to wrap things up and so I want to respect your time and thank you for this conversation, and I will have links to all the ways that people can find you your podcast, your books, your website, all of those things. But in closing, if you would just speak finally, maybe one last word of encouragement to the listener who feels unseen, who wonders if they'll ever be seen and known and loved for who they are. Do you have one last word of encouragement for that listener?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the first thing I would want to do would be if the listener were in the room with you and me. I think the first thing I would want to do would be to join them and say, uh, that this feels uh frightening to believe that I'm seen makes complete sense. But, theresa, and I would say it makes complete sense to us, you're not alone in being afraid, not alone. That. And we would want you, I would want you to hear that as the first sense that you're not by yourself. And this whole notion of our healing begins with our not being alone. That is the first step of healing our felt sense that even when someone says we get it, it feels right, is a move towards being with.
Speaker 1:And then I would say, I want you to know that your story, every single day, when Paul writes and says even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day. It begins it's new today and, what do you know, tomorrow it's actually newer than it was yesterday, which is kind of weird for us. Right, and to what we would want to say, like your story is waiting for newness and God wants to meet you there and God also wants you to partner with him in that enterprise. He is not going to twist your arm, nor is he going to spoon you there. And God also wants you to partner with him in that enterprise. He is not going to twist your arm, nor is he going to spoon feed you, because he is far more serious about your becoming who he wants you to be, perhaps even than you are, this icon of beauty and goodness in the world.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to thank you so much for just taking the time to be here to have this conversation and just for being my guest today.
Speaker 1:It's been a joy. Thanks so much for having me Again. I've said it's very humbling. I don't deserve my life, and this would be one more reason as to why that's true. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for hanging out with me today on Beauty and the Brokenness, and this would be one more reason as to why that's true. So thank you that I'm currently writing, but I'm not sure if you know this. I've already published one study called Graced how God Redeems and Restores the Broken. It's a study about six sexually broken women in scripture and the God who rescued and redeemed and restored them. If you enjoyed this episode, you would love going through that study, Maybe even grab a few friends and go through it together. You'll find a link to it in the show notes. I pray that you have eyes to see the beautiful redemptive work of Jesus in the midst of your broken life. I want to leave you with this verse from Numbers 6, 24 to 26. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you. The Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace.