Dear Church, Therapy Isn’t Heresy with Kristin Smith (SEEN SERIES)

What if the path to healing isn’t either the Bible or therapy—but both together? In this episode, Teresa sits down with Kristin Smith of Pure Desire to talk about how faith and mental health can work hand in hand to heal trauma while staying rooted in Scripture. Kristin shares three lifelines that helped her move from merely surviving after divorce to living the abundant life. Her story is a beautiful testimony of God’s power to heal the whole person—heart, soul, mind, and body 💛!

Click here for show notes and to connect with Kristin Smith.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Holistic Healing
• 1:10 Meet Kristen Smith
• 3:19 Porn, Betrayal, And Church Responses
• 6:10 Story Of Coercive Control
• 12:53 Misused Scripture And Identity Erosion
• 17:36 Leaving To Save A Self
• 22:35 Three Lifelines For Healing
• 28:18 Processing Trauma And Core Beliefs
• 34:32 Discovering Pure Desire And Genesis Process
• 39:50 Biblically Based, Clinically Informed

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

It's almost like telling God, I will give you all my spirituality. Here's all my spirituality, but I'm gonna hold my mental and my emotional behind my back. And you can't have that. So here, one piece of me now heal the whole me. And God's like, no, like I need all of it to be able to. I need your brain, I need your body, I need your story, I need all of it, and then I'm gonna transform it from the inside out all together.

SPEAKER_01: 0:27

Hi, friend. If you've ever wondered how God's word connects with the messy, broken parts of your story, you're in the right place. Welcome to Beauty in the Brokenness, where we have honest conversations about the Bible, our real life struggles, and the hope God brings for healing. I'm your host, Teresa Whiting, an author, Bible teacher, and trauma-informed life coach, but mostly a friend and fellow struggler. No matter who you are or where you've been, I'm inviting you to encounter the God of rescue, redemption, and restoration. The God who is still creating beauty right in the midst of your brokenness. Well, welcome friends. I am excited to introduce you to Kristen Smith today. Kristen is the event and project lead for Pure Desire. She has 10 years of ministry experience coordinating events, leading women's Bible studies, and leading process groups. She is passionate about helping the church heal, bringing awareness to the importance of vulnerability, living transparently, integrating mental health and faith, and the dangers of spiritual bypass. So, Kristen, you are my kind of person, and I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome to Beauty and the Brokenness.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

Can you start by just telling the listeners a little bit more about like who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a single mom of five, and I live in northern Idaho. Um, I homeschool and I work. I am the event and project lead, like you said, for Pure Desire Ministries. Um, porn is destroying lives and marriages, even within the church. And we offer resources like small groups, recovery workbooks, counseling podcasts for those who struggle as well as betrayed spouses. So, um, like you said, my passion is integrating faith and emotional health specifically in the church, um, like Capital C church, and just seeing my transformation and how it's changed others and gives them space to change, uh, and that faith and emotional honesty can coexist beautifully is just really exciting. Um just pairing that with finding my voice. Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54

I love everything you're saying. Like I'm so excited already. And you forgot to mention you wear a cape because my goodness.

SPEAKER_00: 3:09

Okay, well, one's out of the house and one's a senior, so I don't want to give myself too too much credit. There's three younger ones that I'm more hands-on with, but thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 3:18

They still need our help, as we were discussing right before we pressed record.

unknown: 3:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 3:24

It's so true. So true. So I have read some of your articles and I so appreciate your transparency, your vulnerability, and just kind of you've you've had some trauma in your life. You've had some experiences that have caused a lot of damage, and yet you've experienced healing. Would you be willing to share um part of your story, whatever, whatever you're most comfortable with?

SPEAKER_00: 3:49

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I was raised just in your typical broken family, divorced parents, um, emotionally distant father. There's a lot of tension between my parents, a lot of fighting. Um, my dad left when I was 12 uh after having a conversation, like, no, honey, I would never move away because you are my family. And then he moved away, followed by about a decade of silence. So that was pretty a pretty big thing for me. I think ultimately what that did was cemented the belief that I wasn't worth staying for, that I wasn't worth staying. Um, especially 12 years. You know, I have a almost 10-year-old daughter, and I couldn't imagine getting to the 12 years and then being like, hey, bye, and just not having anything to do with her. But it, you know, and it plays out in the rest of your life, how you act as a teenager, where I'm trying to find my worth and attention. Um, God was my savior through it all. I've I've never not known its time of believing, um, but he wasn't my savior. Um, I was still trying to earn his approval and his affection through perfection and performance. So when our marriage fell apart, that was um an almost 20-year marriage, and like I said, five kids together, all the same dad. Um, I did everything I had been taught to fix it, which was pray harder, try harder, attend counseling, read more of your Bible, all the things. Um, and uh it still didn't work. It still didn't work. So the biggest thing my in my marriage was coercive control, which ultimately comes down to ownership. It can be a hyperheadship mentality, an entitlement, um, a way to erode a person's um like personhood, their being. And it's it's like trying to define reality for somebody else. And it really attacks where like mental and emotional abuse attacks your feelings. The coercive control attacks who you are and your right to exist as an autonomous person, and so it's incredibly damaging. And in my marriage, I didn't know this was happening, and even looking back now, um, my ex is not a bad person, he is not somebody that I would uh I had trouble calling it abuse. Um, his heart is for the Lord, even. Um, but he thought his perspective was the right way, and and that biblical headship that it all fell under biblical leadership, and that's where it can get really muddy. So the misuse of scripture to justify control, where me saying no becomes rebellion, or me asking for mutuality becomes defiance. I was told like I had a Jezebel spirit that trying to reframe like my want for autonomy is sin. Um, and then just punishing independence, that I'm rebellious and I don't respect his headship. And that was if I were to summarize the struggle of my marriage. Um, you know, there's a ton of other things in there, but that's what it was. And it came down to a point where we went to a focus on the family, marriage intensive, and one of the counselors said Jesus came to save souls, not marriages. And it was such a freeing thing to think he cares more about me and that I'm a shell of a person right now than maintaining this facade of a marriage. Um, and I went to an older woman that I respected, and I I assumed she was gonna say, no, stay in the marriage. I thought if anybody were gonna tell me to stay, it would be her. And she said, when someone keeps attacking your identity, you have to leave before there's nothing left of you. And it was just a couple pieces of confirmation. Um, so I asked for a separation and and he didn't he didn't want to, and and so I chose to leave. Um but that was, you know, my marriage wasn't restored, but I am being, and that's so exciting.

SPEAKER_01: 8:27

Thank you for sharing that. That that's um a really personal story, and I appreciate you sharing. And I there's so many things that like my brain is spinning right now. I had a conversation yesterday with Leslie Vernick. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her ministry.

SPEAKER_00: 8:44

Yes, yes, okay. Her book, The Emotionally Destructive. That somebody handed that to me, and that was the first time I was ever to be able to look at my marriage and go, this isn't just a hard marriage. This isn't a difficult one, this is destructive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:58

Yeah. So um she was talking exactly about what you were saying about the way it's so hard in the church, right? Because we're taught submission, we're taught male headship, but but then it can get twisted into, like you said, coercion or even abuse or all different things. And so it's such a tricky place. And I love that your heart is for the church to help people understand and discover the truth of that, you know, Jesus is more for keeping you a whole person than keeping you in a in a marriage that is destroying you. So I I appreciate that. Um, I read your article recently that's entitled, When the Marriage Fails, Now What? And when I read that, I was thinking about so many women who could relate to that. I actually um on the podcast have been talking about Leah. And even though she didn't have the opportunity to divorce Jacob, I would say she was one of those people who was just being completely eroded as a person in a marriage where she was not seen or loved or heard or respected or anything. You know, she was just a baby maker, basically, is all she was to Jacob. And so you talked about in that article three lifelines. Can you share what those are? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:24

The first was being real with God, and the second was finding safe people, and the third was processing my stuff. And so the being real with God, I got to a point at the just at the end of myself where I'd done everything I knew how to, and I'm a I'm a go-getter type. So reading the books and doing the things and praying the prayers, and I finally was in my car one day and I ended up having multiple episodes, and I was just screaming at God. Like, I'm literally doing everything you've ever asked me to. I I will I will do anything, and this is still not working. Why? Like the unfairness of it all, that you're dragging my kids through this, the you know, this husband you gave me, you know, I went there and all the things. But at the end of it to feel so seen and knowing that he knows my thoughts, he knows me, but to actually be able to say it and then feel heard and even feeling responses through worship songs or scripture that I read that spoke to specific things that I had just cried out about, uh, that intimacy was worth all of this. That that piece alone um was worth the difficulty. And I think in the church we're told don't be angry and don't be mad, and it's it's not okay to yell at God. And I just fullheartedly disagree that he made emotions, he made us like he's not afraid of them. I mean, look at David. Uh read the Psalms, right? Yeah, yeah. Lamentations. Let's like um, it's actually really biblical. So, and the second one was finding safe people. I'm historically fairly guarded. If you're into the Enneagram, I'm an Enneagram eight, so I kind of have a bit of a wall. Um, but moving to this community that I'm in, it's been about 15 years. I prayed for friends coming in, and boy, did God deliver. Um, I've not been seen or known by anybody as deeply as my inner circle friend group right now, and that's includes my family or my ex-husband. When in the recovery circle, you know, you say we heal in community. It is so true that we were made to live in community and that the way people can speak into your life does something that you can't do on your own. Um, you can't speak that kind of healing into your life. And so finding those friends and and just being real and sene was huge. Um, and there was one more the right processing my stuff. This is the super fun one. This is the one where people are like, Well, I don't want to talk about my history, I don't want to go to my past, I don't want to relive my trauma. And it's like, okay, but you're reliving it every single day by not going back and processing it. And so I would rather be empowered and take it head on and say, I don't want to live with this controlling me. So how can I be aware moving forward and heal from it? So there's so much room for growth there. I learned not only about trauma, but family of origin, attachment, styles, um, I mean, even just to personality things, things I had believed religiously that the church had taught, that there is a bit of a deconstruction, if you will, there. Um, and an ongoing process, still full and will be uh constantly processing my stuff because I I have a lot. But I think the the bottom line is that group, counseling, and community aren't just for really messed up people, that it's for everyone. It's literally for everyone. So my faith alone didn't heal my marriage, but combining biblical truth and real tools did, and that healing is holistic and that God cares about our hearts and our minds and our bodies, and that He came to give us life, just not survival. I don't want to just survive, I want the abundant life, and and that's different.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

Um, how did you find these these resources? Like, was it you reading books? Was it just one group? Were you in therapy? Like, give us a little more behind the scenes of how you processed your stuff, like in what um capacity, I guess, or what setting?

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

Yeah. Well, the funny thing is I actually had a friend who uh whose husband had they'd gone through a discovery process for for porn use and some other things. And we we attended the same church, both stay-at-home moms, and came to our little rural church and asked for help and was told all those really well-intentioned things that hurt people, like, well, are you having enough sex? Are you submitting to him? Are you reading your your Bible? Are you, you know, all these things that just made her feel even less seen? And so she went and and she moved away and ended up finding Pure Desire Ministries, got plugged in, found the help, um, started working for them, moving up. She's now one of our primary speakers and experts on um betrayal trauma. She's been with Pure Desire for years and years. I have so much respect for her, Ashley Jameson.

SPEAKER_01: 16:09

And Ashley's gonna I'm gonna interview Ashley soon.

SPEAKER_00: 16:12

Yay! Oh, like I'm so excited. She is a gem, she's an absolute gem. So I went to see her speak at a pure desire conference, not because I needed help, right? Uh, but because I wanted to support my friend. And so I went up and my mind was blown about the mental and emotional health that really is the same across the board. Whether you're talking celebrate recovery, AA, you know, porn addiction, childhood trauma, the way our brain works is the way our brain works. And so to hear it, it was just my eyes were open. And um we have a Genesis Process by Michael Dye. It's a phenomenal product. Um, they were talking about it, and so I brought it back to our church and we went through it, and it was really the springboard. I categorize my season of life like pre-Genesis and post-genesis. It was that transformative for me in figuring out why I think the way I do, why do I do what I do, why do I react? What's actually under there? That was that was my beginning.

SPEAKER_01: 17:26

We've already kind of touched on this, but I want to read a quote um from one of your articles. You said, I'm not sure why the church as a whole seems to struggle with integrating mental health and faith. It doesn't have to be either or. We can live our lives biblically based and clinically informed. I mean, that's the definition of holistic, right? My faith didn't heal my marriage. No amount of prayer, fasting, and Bible reading on its own was going to fix both of us and give us a healthy marriage. Too many people have crashed and burned trying harder, praying longer, and reading more of the Bible. Please understand me, praying and reading the Bible are a necessary and wonderful part of our lives. But using the faster scale, I'm not sure what the faster scale is, or processing our family of origin and trauma is not unchristian and it's not a sign that our faith is weak. So I saw that and I was like, yes, yes, let's talk about this. I mean, I know we kind of keep harping on the same thing, but I think we need to hear it over and over. I feel like this is news to so many believers. I feel like this, I was um trained in biblical counseling. So I was pretty much trained in the Bible is all you need, and you do not need anything else, period. The end. And yet I think about the fact that God is the creator of our brains and our bodies and our emotions. And we are we are holistic beings, as you said. And so why are we so averse to oh, that's not that that's I can't point to a verse, therefore I'm not gonna pay attention to that. Anyway, that I I want to talk about what we've learned and how we can move forward and how I just also want to make the reader understand, first and foremost, scripture, God's word, yes, one thousand percent yes. I am not dissing the Bible. I'm saying the Bible is the foundation, it's the lens. When you when you hear or read something in psychology, you view it through the filter of scripture. And if it's if it's like, oh, this is completely coincides with God's word, then then yes. Or if you're reading something and you're like, huh, there's a check in my spirit, like this doesn't seem to be biblical, then you reject it. But you don't just reject everything without even giving any credence to clinically informed practices. So I'm kind of answering the question I just asked you to answer.

SPEAKER_00: 20:10

Yeah. Um, I love that you say that because that's my biggest hiccup that I don't understand is that if we're overweight, we don't just ask for the elders to lay hands on us and pray for us and pray for deliverance and go to the altar and confess our sins and then wake up the next morning and expect to be thin and healthy. We, you know, learn about nutrition and we start exercising and maybe we hire a trainer or find some accountability or something like that. But when it comes to mental health, there's still this taboo thing about learning how we work, what um, finding accountability, getting help, uh counselors, psychologists, anything like that. It's just there's such a mismatch. To me, it just feels like stealing life, giving resources to learn about how God actually made us. He designed our nervous system this way, He gave us hormones, He made neural pathways that will adapt and rewire. I mean, this is amazing that our brains can do this and talk about renewing the mind. We're talking physically renewing our mind with these neural pathways. To me, I I like I would I want to embrace that how our creator made us and that in working with him. And the same thing is as you said, that um Jesus is the healer, he is hands down, but he also works through the very science he designed. Uh, he made this. And so faith and mental health, I don't think we're ever meant to be separate. That God created it all and we're supposed to to do it together.

SPEAKER_01: 21:52

Um yeah, I think about so many things that that the world is quote unquote discovering, you know, like grounding, like it's good to put your feet on the earth. And I'm like, yeah, because God actually formed us out of the earth and we're made, our bodies are composed of things that began in the earth. And you know, like there's so many things that the world is like, you can rewire your brain. And I'm like, yes, it says that like you were just in the verse 12. Like you're just confirming what God already told us thousands of years ago, but now you can see it with a microscope. And so I think it's so exciting to me as I learn these things and discover these things to be like all it so much of it just confirmed scripture. It's like putting a stamp on it and being like, of course, this is how our bodies work because of God's design. So, anyway, yeah, I I think we are just tracking on the same page.

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

Well, and it's almost like telling God, I will give you all my spirituality. Here's all my spirituality, but I'm gonna hold my mental and my emotional behind my back, and you can't have that. So, here, one one piece of me now, heal the whole me. And God's like, No, like I need all of it to be able to, I need your brain, I need your body, I need your story, I need all of it, and then I'm gonna transform it from the inside out all together. It's it's yeah, he's amazing. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:23

Has there been a particular passage of scripture that has really been an anchor for you or that has guided you?

SPEAKER_00: 23:32

Yeah, learning about grace, um, that it's the absence of judgment, was really big. And then in the light of that, Colossians 1.22. So yet now he's reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ as you stand before him without a single fault. And some of them say holy and blameless without fault, some of the trans uh translations. But then the next line says, But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. And so this was a point, it's hard to explain sometimes, where we all know as Christians, God loves us. It says it in the Bible, and we're his kids and you know, the lost sheep, and he leaves the 99 to find the one. And we can say all these things, but it was the first time it went from my head to my heart to where I felt like I believe it now. It's not just something that I say. Um, and so I think that was probably the most transformational. And then in that realizing that I was right in mid-divorce and that the divorce wasn't the end of me, that this verse really showed me this is the beginning of finding who God says I am. And then just being able to live out of that truth that I don't have to earn love anymore, that I can just simply stand in it. And I think, you know, I said this earlier that I think that's the essence of John 10, 10, that I came that they can have life and have it abundantly. That abundant life is for the here and now. Uh, and that's what I want.

SPEAKER_01: 25:14

I want that so badly for the listeners. I want the listeners to wake up in the morning and know I'm loved. I'm loved. I don't have to perform, I don't have to have the approval of this or that person. What got you? What is it that got you to actually believe that that's true?

SPEAKER_00: 25:39

Um, it was part of the processing my stuff part, um, that we have core beliefs that are foundations of everything, how we see God, ourselves, and others. And then those beliefs uh play out in in our relationships in our day-to-day life. So so many of those beliefs come from early childhood experiences, trauma, and I don't just mean big T trauma, you know, rape, PTSD, I mean lower case trauma, you know, that somebody hurt your feelings, that it's all in there, family of origin, um, religious influences, all of those shape our perspective, our lens that we were talking about earlier, our lens of how we see things. And being aware of that allowed me to see things that I was believing and I had picked up along the way that weren't true. And and it's hard sometimes because you talk about it, it's like, well, you believe these lies, and people are like, well, why would we believe lies? Well, it's completely unintentional. You don't recognize what your beliefs are unless you compare them to the truth, and and that's where God's truth comes in that to be able to see one in light of the other. And so most of my life, my core beliefs was I'm unseen and unworthy. Um and it and it wasn't until digging into things that I was able to see that. And now I can when that comes where I feel unseen or unworthy, you process it differently. It doesn't feel as heavy, it doesn't feel the same because you know this is something I'm working on, and it's um it's something that I don't have to accept. There's that thought that I'm unworthy. It's like, you know what? I actually know the truth about this one. I'm gonna put this this thought down and go forward with what God actually says, which is I'm holy and blameless and without fault, and walk out that way.

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

I love that you said um, you don't realize you that you believe lies until you compare them with the truth. And the way we compare the lies we believe with the truth is learning and understanding and knowing the truth, which is in God's word. And so, so that again is kind of where God's word is so powerful in our healing journey is it combats the lies. It allows us to replace the lies with truth. It allows us, like you said, to recognize when we're believing or feeling a certain way, to say, wait, wait a minute, that's not true. And I don't have to claim that. I don't have to let that define me. And it's work. I would say that's work because it's so much easier to just like let the beliefs flow and think with, you know, just kind of float along as you always have, but that doesn't create any kind of transformation. Kristen, do you have other ideas on how to change our core beliefs?

SPEAKER_00: 28:47

Um, I think that the biggest thing for me was being able to name it. You have to name it to be able to heal it. And so to start out with, well, what do I believe? Like we were talking about. And then awareness takes that community component and that core the courage to face our stories and to go back and and figure that out. And so I do think that you you can change them and you can switch it over, but it's not like you said, it takes work. It's not an instant switch, it's a process, but it's a process that gets easier. Whereas a huge struggle up front to filter all my thoughts and all the lies through God's truth, that as you're doing that, those pathways get cleared out and they get trampled more and more to where that's just the easy way for your brain to go. But it also takes active participation in letting God's truth redefine who we are, and so it it does take work. I think where I started, you asked what resources I used before, and I'm very application, and so I have. a handful of things that I that were just really helpful in my transformation that help aid in this work because that's a big that's a really big step that okay I'm believing lies and now what do I do with them? Um emotionally healthy spirituality by Pete Schicero I think is how you pronounce it uh is fantastic integrating mental and emotional health if the coercive control um rung a bell the book by Tabitha Westbrook You're not crazy overcoming coercive control in the church or her page tabithawesbrook.com she's phenomenal at explaining that we pure desire has a podcast with Dr. Craig Cashwell that's episode 243 on um on spiritual bypass and what that looks like and I think that's um one of the ones in the church that's just I need to be content and I need to you know the fruit of the spirit are and so I need to act like this and all of these scriptures that have been twisted to make us feel like we have to be a certain way and that's not what they intended. The other two are called to peace ministries for they have phenomenal domestic abuse resources and free advocates um men of peace for course of control if if you're a male thinking oh I I might do this I might actually think that my headship and my leadership could be hurting my family that would be a site for them and then Genesis process. I will forever forever be grateful for the Genesis process and uh Pure Desire Ministries is hopefully launching groups online groups with Genesis process starting in January and so if anybody that's a phenomenal first step.

SPEAKER_01: 31:56

Okay so for the listener before you go back and rewind and try to write all this stuff down um I'm just gonna tell you we're gonna put all of this together in a PDF and I'll link I'll link that in the show notes so you can just grab all of these resources in one place and we'll put links to them.

SPEAKER_00: 32:13

We'll put links to the books to the podcast episodes to the websites that Kristen has mentioned so that you know don't worry about like wait I need to write these down we got you we got you so Kristen um is there anything that I haven't asked you yet that you would want to share with the listener the message that God is for you there was a point in time where there is a gal who was um probably 10 10 15 years older than me and she was a few years ahead of me in getting out of a a bad marriage and I would sit in church and watch her sing these songs about you know being an overcomer and the battle is won and you know Jesus is the healer and I was so pissed and bitter like I know what you're going through. How are you sitting here in church singing these songs about victory when we're not seeing victory like I'm not seeing victory in my marriage and and being at that point and then fast forwarding and seeing all the times that God has given me confirmation all the time where he has shown whether it's through a a person a kind word a scripture a song even in how my circumstances played out that in the midst of it looking like it was failing it wasn't that there were steps towards healing the Genesis process bringing that being friends with Ashley Jameson and having somebody to speak life while I had no idea what was going on and I was just a mess all the way to the point of so before I got divorced I I've been a stay at home mom for over 15 15 years. And so it was a big reality that I'm now gonna have to start working and I don't want to lose my kids and like the closeness we've had we love what we do and and I just gave it to God and said I can't I'm I can't stay just because of this and so you know whatever I end up having to do then this is what I'm gonna do to make this work because I feel confident in in protecting my identity and and what you're asking me to do. And I felt like he told me I want you to just take two months and be in your home and heal because my ex was in the home through the whole divorce process during mediation and everything we were trying to be just really aware of each other in in bills and finances but it was brutal being in the same house trying to process this so God said give yourself two months let your nervous system calm down let your home become an oasis and like not a battleground and my mind is reeling going oh my I need I need to do this and I need to do this and I need a job and how am I gonna and I gotta but I obeyed and I didn't do anything. I had told Ashley my story previously but I I didn't make calls I didn't put um resumes out or anything and about a month in Ashley called me and said the event coordinator position for pure desire just went live get your resume in and I had asked her back in December like is there any chance like maybe pure desire is hiring she's like no we don't like we don't really have turnover and and just not a lot of positions I'm like I just thought I'd I just thought I'd ask I yeah I'll probably you know do something else so when she called and and said that and I obviously I got the job and it was just this way of God saying I've got you like I've got you even if it looks bad. And so now it's funny when I'm in church and I hear those songs again and and the gal I'm talking about still stands in front of me and I've told her the story so that we can laugh together now. But now I sing those songs and I'm like oh no we got the victory like we this yes we we have overcome and still are it's still a process but it's just that full circle of being able to worship and mean the words that I'm singing again and seeing the victory wasn't what I thought it would look like but it's still a victory nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01: 36:50

The victory isn't what I thought it would look like but it's still a victory. I think that is really a powerful statement because I think sometimes we think victory only looks one way. Or and then God says actually I'm doing something different and sometimes it's hard for us to accept the something different but I love hearing your story. I love the the way you expressed all of it like the mess the heartache the anger the healing the beauty the restoration like it's it's just this full orbed real story. I was thinking about your home as a space like how that space itself of your home had been a place of you know probably some really difficult things and God said no stay there. I think of um when he asked Hagar to go back to Sarah like wait what you want her to go back you know and and almost like but she but it would be better for her to not go back really actually um and I I feel like maybe you could have thought well actually it would be better for me to get out of here or to to go somewhere else where I feel a little bit different but how God has redeemed that space for you of your home and maybe I don't know I'm kind of assuming he's made it more of a refuge now maybe you can talk about that for a second it's absolutely my favorite place now.

SPEAKER_00: 38:20

And it is where it used to be a place where you know my room I would go hide and now walking in feeling like I did battle here with God and I came out the other side and I'm alive and I'm breathing and and I often use the way to describe it is that I felt like I was living in black and white and now I feel like I'm living in color. And it's almost a reminder every time I walk into this place where I cried myself to sleep and I prayed and there were fights and doors kicked in and I'm sitting right here like this is it and being like now this is happening. Now I'm sharing my story and I get to hear about other people that get healed and get to see that he walks us through the mess. He doesn't take us around it he walks us through but he he will and just that sweet reminder of the intimacy and the just desperately clinging to him and and where we are now and I don't mean to sugarcoat that because I know what you're saying like wrapping everything in a boat. I still have so many messes going on that I'm working through I am I am not arrived but in this one area I do feel a confidence in my faith and in my being God's daughter that I've never had before and my house is a reminder of it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:49

This conversation has been I don't know if I'm allowed to pick favorites but I'm I just have really I just have loved every second of it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:59

Kristen how can people connect with you and with pure desire ministry you can email me at Kristen s at puredesireg and that's Kristen with eyes smith at puredesire.org or um just the the ministry website is puredesireg.

SPEAKER_01: 40:19

Okay and in closing um there are listeners who are not where you're at they are still in the trenches they are still hurting they're still looking at others going how can you sing that song I I can't sing anything like that. What would you say to that listener?

SPEAKER_00: 40:40

That you are not alone and that you are not too broken for God to use that this is not the end of you more often than not when we hit that bottom that's actually the beginning of the next thing like the look I'm beginning a new thing. But it is so hard it is so hard when you're in that that seeing up feels impossible. But the reminder that sometimes the places that the enemy means to destroy us are the very ones that God redeems for his glory. And so I would encourage them in that that if you feel like you're being destroyed in an area that God will redeem that for his glory and that healing is possible.

SPEAKER_01: 41:33

Thank you so much for being my guest today and just taking some time to have this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for hanging out with me today on Beauty and the brokenness to find anything we mentioned on the episode go to TeresaWiting.com slash listen which is where you can find all the show notes. I'll have ways that you can connect with Kristen and that list of downloads that she talked about books and resources that she used in her healing process. In this episode we talked about the need for community which is why I'm so excited to tell you about the Hope Restore Trauma Intensive coming up February 5th through the 8th. I'm hosting that intensive along with two therapists and what goes on there is exactly what we talked about on the podcast today. We combine the truth of God's word with clinically informed practices to bring a holistic healing experience. Is this something you could use? Do you know someone who could click the link for Hope Restored and learn more today. Now listen the holidays are coming you're gonna get very distracted as soon as you click away from this podcast so go ahead and do it now. In closing I want to leave you with this prayer from numbers six twenty four to twenty six the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you. The Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace