Holding Onto Hope in Chronic Illness with Ashley Jameson (SEEN SERIES)

If you’ve ever been told, “There’s nothing wrong,” “It’s just anxiety,” or “It’s all in your head,” when you knew something wasn’t right—you’re not alone, and you’re not crazy! Ashley Jameson shares her journey of more than 20 years with a chronic illness that was dismissed by her doctors. She knows what it’s like to look fine on the outside while suffering inside, to stay silent after being labeled, and to feel unseen and unheard. But her story doesn’t end there. Ashley found answers, healing, supportive community, and hope in Jesus, who sees and knows our suffering. If you’re walking through chronic illness, betrayal, or any long painful season, this episode is for you.

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Transcript

Shattered Trust And Wrestling With God

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And I was so angry with God. I felt betrayed. But what that did was that forced me to say, nobody on this earth is worthy of putting all your trust in and finding your value in. I have to redirect that. And so me and God had this wrestling match of like, I'm so mad at you. And also you're the only one I can trust. Everybody's dangerous in this world. And it was a few-month process of me taking where I found my value and identity and placing it with who it belonged with, with God.

Teresa Whiting 0:34

Hi, friend. If you've ever wondered how God's word connects with the messy, broken parts of your story, you're in the right place. Welcome to Beauty in the Brokenness, where we have honest conversations about the Bible, our real life struggles, and the hope God brings for healing. I'm your host, Teresa Whiting, an author, Bible teacher, and trauma-informed life coach, but mostly a friend and fellow struggler. No matter who you are or where you've been, I'm inviting you to encounter the God who is still creating beauty right in the midst of your brokenness. Welcome, friends. I am excited to introduce you to my guest today. I'm speaking with Ashley Jamison. She is the director of programs and partnerships at Pure Desire Ministries. Ashley helps churches launch groups for men and women struggling with compulsive sexual behavior or betrayal. She advocates for the voiceless and creates safe spaces for honest, vulnerable conversations within the Christian community. And that's just right there, Ashley. Like you're my people identified. I read that and I was like, this is why you're on the podcast today. Her work empowers men and women to heal from betrayal and addiction and embrace the life God has for them. Ashley has also dealt with chronic illness and has found comfort in the story of the bleeding woman. And so Ashley, I am so excited to have you on. I know we've been planning this for months and months, and we're finally getting to have our conversation. So welcome to Beauty and the Brokenness and thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yes, thank you so much for having me on. I always get teary when, like you said, my people, and I'm like, oh, we have a community. We have we have people. Um and so I'm so happy and just honored to be here.

Teresa Whiting 2:22

Thank you. Um before we begin getting into the topic, um tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself and the work that you do.

Ashley’s Story Of Betrayal And Recovery

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah. Um, so we have a very, very long history of um betrayal uh through um like parental neglect and rape as a virgin and husband betrayal with prostitutes and pornography and affairs and all the things, divorce and my first marriage. Um I've been with my current husband now for 16 years, and we have four kids. Um and I, in about year four of our marriage, discovered that he had an ongoing pornography addiction and a past with prostitutes. And I was just so, so devastated and broken because he was my second marriage. I felt like I did it right. I found a Christian husband. Um, I realized I wasn't disqualified from the things that happened in my past as a teenager. And so I just felt betrayed then by God again, um, that I just couldn't get it right, that I was kind of just set up for failure and continued heartache. Um, we ended up through God's just miraculous everything, you know, betrayal from the church when I went to get help there and just really hard, shaming advice for me, stumbling across pure desire. God dropped it in our lap and my husband got involved. And once he got involved, a few months later I was like, why am I not getting better? I mean, he's he's doing the work and he's feeling better, but I was still hurting um so badly. I didn't know anything about betrayal trauma. I didn't know that sexual addiction could be a real addiction. So I dove into their resources and um started leading groups for women at my church, and it just exploded. I ended up stepping in as a speaker for Diane Roberts, who's one of the founders 10 years ago, and I've been on staff ever since, um, just helping churches with what I needed help with, which is give women a safe place to process their pain, whether it's on the betrayal side or the addiction side. Um we need vulnerability in the church. And it's, you know, it's interesting that you asked me to come on for chronic illness because I feel like there are so many parallels between the suffering of chronic illness and the suffering of being in like a hard marriage or having something in life that's really hard.

Teresa Whiting 4:37

Yes. I think there's even probably, I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but I think there's also like a connection between the emotional and the bodily response. And I've talked to so many women who have, you know, sexual trauma and chronic illness at the same time. And I'm like, I'm seeing a connection here. I'm sure you know way more about that than I do. Um but when I um I I was gonna ask you what led you to working with pure desire, but you kind of explained that already. Um, but how has working with them shaped you?

Clinical And Biblical Healing Combined

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Oh um, you know, it it was sexual addiction that brought me into this work in this ministry. But once I did the work, I just tell everybody I wish wish we all knew this before we left the house, before we started dating, before we brought our kids home from um from the hospital, because you know, now I've done work with creating books for parents, you know, resources and a book for parents to talk with their kids. Um just it's it's it's clinical and biblical, but the resources and the process that we take people through, what it does is it helps people get back to who living and who God originally created them to be before the scars of the world, before the enemy put a bunch of lies on them, before their parents flooded them with mistruths about themselves, before they felt disqualified from a healthy marriage because they were raped or sexually abused or um broken because of illness or, you know, all of that stuff that can cloud us. And I think it's the enemy's attack on us. And we use resources to go back and say, where did we first feel this? Where did we start believing this about ourselves? And so it is a sexual addiction and betrayal trauma ministry, but it's never about that. There's always something at the root that leads us there, or some kind of pain. And that's what we help people get to. So, in all aspects, my sons are 22 now, they're twins. They were 10 when I started this process, and it's radically changed my relationship with them. My daughter is 15. You know, the other day she came into my room at two in the morning, and we talked from two in the morning till four in the morning on a school night, on a work night, um, because she went through some heartache with situation at school. And I wouldn't have any of that. I wouldn't have my relationship with my mom the way I do now if I didn't get to understand trauma and that people act out of their woundedness and their trauma, and that that's not necessarily reflective of you or your relationship with them.

Teresa Whiting 7:12

I love the ministry. I love pure desire ministries so, so much. What I love about it is that it is clinical and biblical, and you guys marry that so beautifully. Um, I just feel like uh one without the other, it it is you can heal to a degree, uh, but I I feel like having them both together is just this complete picture of healing because God created us as holistic beings and he doesn't separate just our spirituality from everything else. Uh it's all part of who he created us to be. Um I had a conversation with your friend Kristen Smith on the podcast a few months ago. And I'm even having um Nick Stumbo, who's the founder of is he the founder? He's the executive director. Yeah, Dr. Ted is the founder. So the executive director, he's gonna be on in a few months. And I'm like, I just love your ministry. I'll talk to all of you.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yes, yeah, I mean, we all most, I think everybody on staff pretty pretty much has a story, or they get in like typical Christians who's like, I don't have trauma in my past. And then they're like, hey, I'm starting to recognize some behaviors, but it is, I I like like I said in the beginning intro, I went to my church for help and it was, have you forgiven your husband? Are you reading your Bible enough? Have you trusted God? Are you letting let go and let God um pray? Be a praying wife, never stop praying. I was doing all those things, Teresa. I I read my entire Bible that summer. I was literally reading 50 to 70 chapters of the Bible every day. I mean, I was so in so much pain. I stopped drinking wine, I canceled social media, all movies above like a G rating for years, not just like a month. And I was still getting told, are you praying enough? Are you forgiving enough? And so what that did to me, and I and this is where I can correlate it to even chronic illness, is that I started to think, well, why am I failing as a Christian? I'm doing all the things that my mentors and leaders and and pastors are telling me to do, and it's not working. So there must be something broken with me or in my relationship with God because I don't have enough faith to feel okay in this marriage. And then when I found pure desire resources and I realized the scientific aspect of it and what happens in your body and the physiological change and the actual addiction and even the betrayal trauma and what happens in your body, I my mind was blown. I'm like, this is the missing piece. This is when everything everything started clicking together, scripture and the mind, body, soul. And then I started having momentum in all aspects of healing.

Why The Bleeding Woman’s Story Resonates

Teresa Whiting 9:48

Yes. I feel like we could talk about this for hours, but I want to kind of pivot a little bit because when I reached out to you um several months ago, I kind of told you I was doing the scene series and I said, Do you have any of these women's stories resonate with you? And I was surprised. Like I thought you were gonna say Leah or one of the others, but you immediately responded that you felt like you resonated with the bleeding woman's story. So what is it about her that draws you to her story?

Two Decades To A Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 10:19

So you're making me cry. Um I knew I was gonna cry. So tears are welcome here. Yeah. Always um gosh, since my teenage years, all the way to 2019. So I'm 41 now. Um, so mid-30s is when I got a diagnosis of what was actually wrong with me. So for 20 years I didn't know. Um and I was um just chronically in pain. But it was all inside. It was all inside. Um, I saw every doctor, I had every test, I had doctors tell me I was anxiety. You know, it felt like the try harder approach that puts people in trouble with sexual addiction, chronic addiction, you know, where it's like, oh, well, just have more peace, have less stress. And they are looking at me. I literally had a doctor come in one time and say to me, She walked in, I'd never seen her, and somebody had told me, list out all the symptoms so they can connect what's wrong. And I did. And she came in and she, I was 35, I think, at the time, and she said, I'm looking at you and I can see that there's nothing wrong with you. And she didn't even say hi. She didn't introduce herself. She said, You have anxiety. And I showed her that I had huge patches of hair loss. I said, Is this normal? Like with anxiety. Um, I was dripping sweat every day. Like having to change my clothes four or five times a day. I I wouldn't want to leave the house because like I would leave puddles of water where I sat. Like I was dripping through snow coats and everything. Um, my legs would swell. They'd always ask me if I had heart problems. My skin would turn purple in the sun. My joints, I sometimes had the hardest time just getting out of bed. But on the outside, I looked totally normal. This, you know, I was told you're a young, beautiful woman. You need to stop chasing a diagnosis. That's what was told in my document. In my records, it says this woman has anxiety. She's chasing a diagnosis. Um, she has, I forget what it's called, but somatic, something where you're like, make, you know, your brain is making the symptoms. Um, which now in the work I do, I do understand that there is a mind-body connection. I've got some little quotes that are so good about that mind-body connection and what it does when our nervous system is stuck in fight, flight, or freeze all the time. Like I do understand that. Um, but finally, I, you know, I gave up and I started getting worse and worse. And I thought, I'm gonna become, I'm gonna be on disability. I can hardly get out of bed. Um, and it's so hard to explain to people when you look normal and when you look athletic and I'm not overweight, and you know, it's just just very hard. So uh when I started to feel like I was literally gonna die, I picked up the computer again and started researching again and found a neurologist in Seattle that seemed like he could help with my heart symptoms that I had. And so I went to him and he said, list out all the symptoms you've ever had. And I was like, Oh, you want that? Because the last person I did that for said I was crazy. Um, so I did and I brought pictures and he said, I think you have something called mast cell disease on top of HOTS. You have, you know, an orthostatic disease with your heart or a condition with your heart. And he had me do a biopsy, a colonoscopy, and a biopsy. And I finally got a diagnosis with what was wrong with me and was able to tailor my treatment, natural and medical. And I feel like a completely changed woman. Like I still have symptoms, but it took me 20-something years to get there. And now I can go in the sun again. I'm not, you know, breaking out and allergic to the sun or getting weary. Um, so it was a really, really long journey. And one of the pastors at our church actually um took a picture when he was in Israel and he had a friend frame it for me. And it was the woman reaching out, touching, it's just a picture of the bottom of the hem and the woman reaching. So when you said that, I'm like, I know exactly who I am. I am the woman. Like that is who I resonate. Like, just God, please heal me. Like, why? Why am I suffering like this? Why can I not get out of bed? Don't you have a purpose for me? Don't you want me to get out of bed and do good work for you? Or, you know, feel good doing it. And so um definitely can relate to that long, long suffering of a woman.

Teresa Whiting 14:41

Wow, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I think that there are a lot of women who are listening who are in a similar situation, maybe different symptoms, but that feeling of like, what is wrong with me and why can't anybody help me? I have friends and family members who have chronic illness like that and have had that same situation of just going to doctors and being told you're fine, you're fine, there's nothing wrong with you. How does that make a woman feel unseen? That that experience of chronic illness and maybe it doesn't look visible on the outside?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah. Um, I often would be afraid to share because I had been called a hypochondriac. Um, I, you know, been told nothing's connected. You know, I had um, you know, a hysterectomy, I had a heart condition, I had a bladder condition, I had all these things that I had to get treated that were seemingly unconnected. And so I started to just stop complaining, to stop saying anything, to stop trying to reach out to, I stopped trying to reach out to doctors because I was so ashamed or made to look a fool by some of the doctors and nurses that were like, there's nothing wrong with you. You came back, you came last month and we told you the same thing. Um, and so I just I ended up going inside of myself and just saying, I'm not gonna try anymore. And then you just are silently suffering by yourself because you are afraid to speak up. Um, and I I did feel myself just disappear and um and not be able to be fully present in situations that I was in because I was suffering, but I didn't want to bring it up and I didn't want to seem like a complainer, or here's Ashley again with all her problems all the time. And so I just kept it to myself until it got to the point where I was desperate enough to try to find help for myself again.

Teresa Whiting 16:36

How can we care for women who have chronic illness? Like what are things that we can do, questions we can ask, ways we can support them?

Living Unseen With Invisible Illness

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Um, I always start with first just say validating, you know, this validating that what they're experiencing must be very hard and very painful and frustrating. And um on my level, I'm able to say I can relate on a level of how it feels to have something that's not visible or that's long suffering. Um but I was even thinking about what that doctor who shamed me could have done differently. Talking about the mind, body, soul connection and saying, What do you need? You know, what what do you need? Is it is it connection? Is it support? Is it help around your house? Um, or just if you're a friend or family member that knows, going over and saying, I want to come visit you today. And if you were up and feeling good today, what would you be getting done around the house? Can I do that for you today? Um, as far as me being a helper and kind of, you know, working in the role I work in, I really emphasize the mind, body, soul connection in saying, keep pursuing your physical health, keep pursuing doctors, natural doctors, whatever you can, and take care of your mind because it was really easy for me to like just get right back into a depression every time I would have a flare. And so keeping that mind really sharp and healthy and having those positive affirmations and truths over you. And then also, you know, physically just doing everything we can. So there's like, you know, all the dimensions of wellness, of eating well and sleeping well and trying to kind of attack it from all angles. But I truly believe that finding support from people who go through something similar is the number one way that you can help yourself through any kind of long suffering, whether it's divorce, loss of a child, chronic illness, um, because then you have that support week to week from people who get it. It's not um calling the same friend every week, every time you're trying to, you know, get out of bed and you can't, and they're like, I don't really know what to say anymore to you because I don't experience this. And so to get support along the way as well.

Teresa Whiting 19:02

That's that is super practical advice. What where do you find a support network like that?

How To Support Chronically Ill Women

Stress, Trauma, And Body-Wide Impact

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, I mean, for me, I mean, it takes a lot of research. And so I guess it depends on what kind of um chronic illness it is or um suffering that it is, but I ended up searching specifically my symptoms, my disease. Once I had a diagnosis, it was a lot easier to find a support group. Way easier. When I didn't have a diagnosis, um, it was just chronic illness type support groups. And whether that's in the church or online, there's so many things available. And flooding myself with podcasts and trying to um just remind myself that I'm not crazy, I'm not a complainer, I'm not a hypochondriac. Um, but along with that, if you do have a chronic illness, it's important that you've processed all your like trauma and past. Because that's all connected. And so when we have our nervous system in constant hyper drive or high gear, that creates chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation destroys cells in your body and can cause breakdown and all kinds of physical issues. And so I didn't ever think they were connected because I'm a pretty joyful person. And it's like, oh, I'm an open book. I talk about everything. And like the past is the past. But it wasn't until I had to be faced with something outside of my health issue that made me sit down and process all of my pain and my trauma and how I view myself and what lies I have about myself and how I function in relationship, where I started stepping out of that chronic fight or flight mode. And then when something would happen, I'd step back in, I was able to notice, oh, I've been living like 25, 30 years in this heightened state of arousal and I didn't even know. And so when one of my rheumatologists said, Well, are you extra stressed? I was having a flare. I'm like, no, I'm not extra stressed. This is the smoothest my life has ever been. But when you compare it to my whole upbringing and the things that I've had in my past, it wasn't very stressful. Now, if you were to give me an objective questionnaire, the one is the Holmes Ray stress test, stress inventory. I don't know if you've ever done that one, but if you were to do that and it says, put a check mark by anything that's happened in the last 12 months, put two or three check marks if it's happened two or three times, my numbers were off the chart. It's like if you have under 150, you have a normal amount of life stress. You're you're probably okay. If it's under between 150 and 300, you have a 50% chance of having a major health crisis. If it's above, I think it was 80%. No, if it's above 300, you have an 80%. And mine was like 700, my score. I mean, it was just off the charts. And so for somebody to say, are you stressed? Are you doing the things to take care of your mind body? And so I'm like, I think so. I go to church, I'm happy, I have friends. And then somebody gives me this checklist and I'm like, ooh, I have a lot of stress that I'm carrying around, and I've just adapted to that level of stress. And that feels normal to me. And so then I was able to take this objective document and say, in the next 12 months, I am going to do everything I can with things in my control. Obviously, like death of a loved one, I can't control that. My brother died a few years ago. Um, but vacations, holidays, moving careers, switching to kids' schools, I highlighted everything on the paper that I could control. And I said, for the next year, my goal is to get my health in check and to reduce my stress. And I am going to tell my family that's what I'm doing for this next year. And things are going to look different. I'm going to keep things as smooth as I can in the areas that I actually have control and try to reduce this stress on my body.

Teresa Whiting 23:00

Did you get pushback? Like, what was that like to say this year, you know, that would probably mean saying some no's to keep no end to things.

Boundaries, Pushback, And Family Values

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Like, how did you manage that? Um, I, you know, by that time I had been working in pure desire work for a while. And so I'd already been kind of like working on boundaries, but you do get pushback. We got told, well, the holiday is not going to look the same without you. And we had some family dynamics that were kind of hard with my husband's addiction. And um we just knew that that would add another layer of stress. And so we just had to accept that we were the black sheep of the family, that we were going against the grain, that we were swimming upstream, that we were not the same as the rest of the family, just playing along and doing all the things or giving gifts. And then you have to deal with your own internal disappointment of, hey, this year we can't do birthday gifts, or this year we can't make that family reunion, or this year we can't um whatever, put our kid in that activity. And that's hard, but you have to keep your values and your goal in front of you. And so that was, you know, several years ago, probably eight years ago. And then this last year with my mom, you know, needing more help and us moving to Tennessee, I lost another huge chunk of hair. And it's been five or six years since that's ever happened and it never grew back. And so I have like these three-inch bald spots in the back of my head from last year that haven't grown back, and I don't think they will, you know, and it's a devastating reminder that stress can get ahead of you again and it could have permanent consequences like cancer, hair loss, you know, system failure. And I let that go over the last five or six years in being hyper-vigilant about protecting my stress levels and what how much we can handle as a family. And so I have to get my family values back out and say, my faith, my health, my family. Those are my top three priorities. And every assignment I take, everything I do, does it contribute to growing my faith, keeping my family connected, or keeping my health protected? And if it doesn't, then I really need to assess that and probably say no and just deal with the guilt because the temporary guilt of saying no is better than the long-term resentment or stress or whatever happens on your body because you said yes.

Teresa Whiting 25:10

Oh, that's good. That is so good to frame it that way and to remind yourself of that. But I imagine that's really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

So I think that's well, Kristen, you know, Kristen. Yes. So she kind of manages all of her projects. And I was markuping her last night because I have such a soft heart and like I want to do all these things. She goes, from now on, when somebody asks you to do something, you say, hold on, then you side chat me. And she goes, I'm gonna protect you from yourself. So get your people in your corner that that know your weak spots that know you and love you and have wisdom and insight that can say, doing too much is my blind spot. Can you help me? And I love having people like that in my corner because that's what ends up wearing me out and my body out.

Teresa Whiting 25:55

Yeah, one one year my really good friend gave me a no button for for my birthday. She's like, This is yours to press all year long. Oh my gosh. It was it was cute. Um just going back to the bleeding woman for a minute, what do you love most about her story?

Reframing Trust, Idolatry, And Marriage

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I love the desperation. Like just sometimes I just imagine, like in all the brokenness, when the weight feels so heavy, um, the physical weight of your body or stress or disease or pain. Um I imagine myself just like army crawling my way through that crowd, like just to reach out and touch Jesus. And and that's what I want is that even in my brokenness, even when I'm feeling like, hey, you're leaving me back here, or why am I suffering? That all I have to do is keep reaching for Jesus and and trust him, that I know the Maker. I don't understand everything he's doing or why, but I do know that I love him and trust him and he loves me more than I can imagine. And so just to keep my eyes fixed on keep reaching for him, um, because we don't even need to say anything. He knows like our heart, he knows our brokenness, he knows our desires. And if I can just say, I'm reaching for you, God, I don't know what you're what you're doing, but I'm reaching for you and I trust you, just keeping that posture earlier when you were describing um what happened in in this marriage four years in, and how you said a phrase, you said, I felt betrayed by God.

Teresa Whiting 27:36

And now you're you're talking about trusting God. What was the process of getting to getting from God, you're betraying me or you have betrayed me, to God, I trust you and I'm gonna keep reaching out for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I'm so glad you asked that because I just had this conversation with my 15-year-old daughter at two in the morning the other night. Um, and I told her this story. I said, everyone is gonna let you down in this world. Everyone is broken. The only person who will never hurt you is Jesus. And and the father loves you. And um, Jesus was the only one who walked this earth that was perfect and that you can put all your trust in. I had to learn that through a very painful experience with your dad. And so when your dad betrayed me with pornography, I realized that in my brokenness, in my upbringing, my trauma as a child, my neglect and abandonment from my parents, the rape, that skewed my perception of relationships. And I was idolizing relationships. I was chasing relationships to find my value. And so even when I married your dad, I kind of felt without knowing it, looking back, I felt like I had arrived. Okay, now I've got my husband. Now I'm gonna put all my energy, you know, instead of acting out in love, sex, addiction, I'm gonna put all my energy into being the perfect wife. I'm quoting. Um, and when God revealed to me what your dad was doing, my whole world fell apart. And I was so angry with God. I felt betrayed. But what that did was that forced me to say, nobody on this earth is worthy of putting all your trust in and finding your value in. I have to redirect that. And so me and God had this wrestling match of like, I'm so mad at you, and also you're the only one I can trust. Everybody's dangerous in this world. And it was a few-month process of me taking where I found my value and identity and placing it with who it belonged with, with God. And I told my daughter, I said, in that, that's that gave me such confidence that that became super sexy to everybody. Men and women around you, they see that confidence that you have in just being yourself unashamed of your story, knowing who's you, who you, who you belong to, that you don't have to chase people for uh validation or to find your identity or your worth. That you know who you walk into a room and you know who you belong to, and you have this confidence like, do you know who my dad is? Like, do you know who I am? Do you know what he's done for me? Do you know what he will do for me? Um, and that becomes your confidence that you get a walk in. And so it was a process, but I needed to de-idolize my husband and relationships and and put that back where it belonged to with God.

Teresa Whiting 30:23

I I love that so much. And I still relate to that. Greg and I were married nine years when I came to discover that he struggled with uh lust and masturbation and all of that. And I remember specifically being like, God, like I made a deal with you, like I married a pastor, I did all these things right. I'm in ministry. Like, how dare you let this happen to me? Like, this shouldn't be happening in my marriage. And it was that exact thing. It was that exact revelation of God saying, and you've idolized your husband and your marriage. And I am the only one that deserved that, you know, that that you've put all your trust in. It's me. I was in that same exact scenario of having to face my own idolatry in my heart, that my husband was where I got my identity, my marriage, my quote unquote doing things right was where I got my identity. I realized what honestly what a Pharisee I was. Yeah and how much I was putting trust in my own goodness and all the good things that I had done. And when God kind of just pulled the rug out from under me is what it felt like. And I was on my face, I was like, okay, Jesus, you are all I have, and you're enough. I found him to be enough, and and that I so resonate with that part of your story and uh coming to that place and then seeing him be faithful and seeing him uh carry you through and then rebuild relationships and rebuild but uh from a different foundation. The foundation is no longer you, I trust you. It's I trust God to be at work in you and in me and in us, but my trust is in him, and my job isn't to trust you, my job is to love you.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, yes, exactly. I mean, I've even used some of that same language. And I think it's such an amazing thing when we can come to that place because you know, God doesn't make our husbands betray us or, you know, do these things to us, but but when we can use those hard experiences to lean into him and learn from them and grow from them, I I don't know that I would ever risk wanting to change what happened because it's it's it's allowed me to just really cling to God in a way that I think you don't if you don't suffer in that in a way. Um, that suffering makes us cry out and makes us realize that we are helpless and that we need a savior and that we need protection and that we need hope and we need an anchor. And so um to just take that through life then is so um reassuring, you know, that you can navigate anything and you know the source.

Scriptures For Perseverance And Comfort

Teresa Whiting 33:21

Yes, yes. I love that. So, Ashley, is there a scripture passage that has been an anchor for you or an inspiration or something that you've gone back to over and over that has carried you in some of these times?

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah, I actually have um a few of them. One of them, and I kind of alluded to this and just like continuing to reach for Jesus, um, is Revelation 12, 11, in that they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. And that I just feel like kind of is my mantra in continue to move forward, continue to share your story with others and offer hope and or even just support. Maybe you're not through it, maybe you're not healed, but you can offer empathy or support, or in you know, the work of betrayal and marriages, it's that continue authenticity and saying, I know him and I don't know what he's doing with me or with you, but I trust him and we can do this together, and I'm gonna be vulnerable in saying I get it. I'm not gonna be that Christian that says all these, you know, generic answers like, oh, God wouldn't give you more than you can handle, and trust, you know, all I mean, it's not that those things are bad or that they come from a bad place, but they're not really helpful when you feel like, no, this is more than I can handle. I feel like I'm gonna die. And for some people, unfortunately, those who commit suicide, it is more than they can handle. And so, you know, just saying these things that are not helpful. Um, I just think walking in your true story and saying, I don't have it all together. Actually, my husband and I, or my illness, we had a fallback, you know, a couple months ago. And this is what it looks like to be a Christian doing real life with each other. Um, the other verse I love so much is 2 Corinthians 1, 3 through 4, where it talks about the God of comfort, you know, bringing us um comfort so that we can comfort others. And yes, he brings us comfort. And there's a second part to that, that we get so much joy and I think goodness and even healing in our body when we are able to comfort others. And so I'm thankful for this work where it's really hard work to do trauma work, to work with people in their hardest seasons, affair, addiction, legal issues. Um, but there's been days where I've shown up just like, I can't do this. Like, why I'm a fraud, my life is hard, my marriage is hard, my kids are hard, my chronic illness is hard, I suck, you know, and I and I show up to work and then I get on a call, and even in my vulnerability and saying, I get it, it's hard. And then this woman's crying and saying, just that gives me hope that I'm not alone. And and you feel like this rush of like healing in your own body because you were able to pass that along. And so that scripture that says we are comforted, and then God wants us to take that and help others, um, I think is healing and that we can keep leaning on that.

Teresa Whiting 36:18

It reminds me also of that verse that he who refreshes others will also be refreshed. Yes, you know, like you're speaking life over someone, and then God is pouring life into your soul because of what you're doing and how you're doing it. So I love that. Um what else? What else do you want to mention that I didn't cover?

The Brain–Gut Connection Explained

Track Triggers And Rewire Responses

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Okay, I'm so excited. I have a quote pulled up. Can I read it? Yes. Okay, so we were talking about how um I don't it might have been before we started recording, just like I nerd out so hard on mind, body, soul. And so um, for me, like I said, with the stress levels and not recognizing when I was stressed, because I'm like, oh, this is what my life has always looked like, or in betrayal, let's say, or if you're the addict, or whatever it may be, um, that our body keeps so much score. You know, if you've read the book, body keeps the score, read it. I'm funny. Um, and so this is from the Cleveland Clinic that says your brain talks to your gut and your gut tucks back. If you've ever had a gut feeling, you've experienced this communication. It's the thought of an exciting event that can make you feel butterflies in your stomach, while the thought of something dreadful might be gut-wrenching, and it's how the feeling in your gut can influence your decision making, as in going with your gut. And so your brain and your gut communicate all day long with nerves. Um, they talk about all kinds of things from practical physical matters to emotional ones. And there's more information that passes between your brain and your gut than any other body system. In fact, there are more nerve cells in your gut than anywhere else in your body outside of your brain. And your body often knows something is wrong before your mind has words for it. This is by design and not weakness. And so I just kind of added on there, like when we silence those alarms. And so for me, growing up in a home where I wasn't, where feelings were not talked about, um, love and affection wasn't shown, emotions weren't validated, you live in this chronic state of like hyper arousal. And so as an adult, it was easier for me to start with identifying feelings in my body than it was to start with how I was thinking or feeling because I wasn't trained in that way. And I actually people would say, Well, how does that make you feel? Like, ew, yuck, don't, don't talk to me about that. Um, and so I would say for the woman that's like, I don't even know, I'm just like, ah, everything feels like it's on fire all the time. I would say, start with your body. You know, you wake up, and um, here's a really practical example. When I've divorced the twin's dad, it was a very toxic relationship. And they were one year old when I left and I was in school working three jobs. They were five when I married John. They would wake up in the morning, my precious twin boys, and I would instantly start feeling like my blood boiling, some kind of like stress in my body. And I think some moms can relate to that. And I hated that. I hated that I was recognizing even before pure desire that my twins were like a trigger somehow. Just, and I, and I at first I thought, oh, it's just because they're up and it's gonna be busy and they're two bouncing, dirty, loud five-year-old boys. Um, but what I started doing was what is the thought that comes with that when they come upstairs? Um, and then I started setting alarms to just randomly go give them words of affection and a kiss random times just to break this cycle, this pattern. And I remember one day they came up and I just felt joy seeing them. And I was so thankful that I had broken this pattern that I actually saw in my mom that we always stressed her out. Um, and so pay attention to what happens in your body that you may be going through the day. I mean, you may always have like a high level of chronic stress. In your body, if you haven't dealt with it, but then there's things that make it peak. Your heart starts racing, your gut gets twisted, um, you feel hot. So when that happens, pause and say, What just changed in my environment? What just happened? What thought is attached to what I'm feeling right now? When is the first time I felt like that? When do I first remember feeling like that? And just start journaling these things and getting them out. Um, because we have things happen that trigger our body. Let's say a woman finds out about an affair in um a basketball game with her kids, picks up her husband's phone, finds out about an affair. Five years down the road, she's in a gym and her body feels out of control and has no idea. And so say, when's the last time I felt like this? What's my environment? What am I seeing? What am I smelling? When have I ever experienced this before? And just try to trace it back and then and then flood that that memory with truth and um reminding yourself that you have choices because when we feel like we don't have choices, we feel out of control and then we can spiral in our mind, body, and soul.

Teresa Whiting 41:05

So much good stuff. Like I was I'm taking notes, I'm like, I don't even know what to respond to because there's so much there. I love the quote. Um, if you can send me, you know, the the link to that, and I'll I'll put that in the show notes. Also, I wanted you to send me that Holmes Ray stress test. Okay, so listeners can take that test. But then I just love when you said pay attention to what happens in your body. That is a new concept for so many people. Like, I don't think we've been taught to pay attention. And so many times our gut says something and we're just like, oh, that's just I'm just overreacting or I'm just stressed out, or and we don't pay attention. And then months down the road, something happens and we're like, I knew there was something wrong there, and I just pushed it aside and I ignored it, and now it's come back. And I see why my gut was saying, hey, pay attention to this, but we haven't been taught that. So I just, oh my goodness, I I could talk to you for hours. I so appreciate it. Um, but I know we have to wrap up this conversation. Um, how can people connect with you and your ministry?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

The ministry is Pure Desire Ministries and the website is puredesire.org. Um, if they're listening to this podcast and they specifically want to connect with me or have a question for me, they are free to email me at Ashley J at pureddesire.org. Um, I that's probably my favorite thing is just to help people get their next step if they feel stuck.

Teresa Whiting 42:39

And I'll have all this in the show notes as always. But as we wrap up, Ashley, would you be willing to speak directly to the woman who maybe is where you were um 15, 20 years ago, just feeling absolutely desperate and alone and maybe silenced and feeling like I have these issues and I have nowhere to go and people think I'm crazy and and she's just feeling maybe alone and unseen.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yeah. I would um to that woman listening, I would say do not give up. It's so easy to stop trying, to stop fighting, to just realize it's easier to silently suffer than to keep asking for help. Um, and so I would say find support. That is gonna be the biggest thing. Find support in people who get it and who have been there. And now we're so lucky because we have groups for everything online. And so if you know your chronic illness, Google support groups for this chronic illness. If you don't know your chronic illness, maybe just Google a support for, you know, a general chronic illness group or um or even a holistic natural approach kind of group where they like to get to the root of diseases and condition. You need that support to keep you motivated to keep trying new things and to have ideas bounced off of you. And so that because it's just easy to go silent and medicate with alcohol, with TV, with shopping, with whatever food, and um kind of just start feeling sorry for ourselves and slowly going down. And so stay connected so that you have those accountability people. Um that's your emotional connection to keep your mind and your spirit healthy in making sure that you're staying in some kind of study. And when you're going in that study, like during that time I was really sick, I was in Bible study fellowship and I loved it. I love being in the Word that deeply with other women and just asking God to show me things specifically about what I was going through at that time. And then, and then physical, making sure you're taking care of your body, you're eating good, you're getting enough sleep. At least seven hours, that's always a battle for me, but um, that you you're really taking care of your body and giving it the best chance that it can. And so just keep moving forward in any kind of step, even if it's just a little bitty baby step, just don't stay stuck and don't stop trying to reach out for help.

Next Steps, Resources, And Hope

Teresa Whiting 45:19

I love that. That is so great. Thank you so much just for being on the podcast today. I loved, loved, loved our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Thank you for having me. I really hope that this just helps that person who was maybe starting to feel done again and you know, light a fire under them to keep going.

Teresa Whiting 45:37

Wow, that conversation with Ashley was so powerful and insightful. I hope you'll find a way to connect with her. Um, in the show notes, I have included links to the quotes, the stress test, ways to connect with Ashley, links to her book. I hope you will check out all her resources. Thanks for hanging out with me today on Beauty and the Brokenness. To find anything we mentioned on the episode, go to TeresaWiting.com slash episode dash one four four. Do you know a woman who suffers from chronic illness? Is there someone who you think would be encouraged by this episode? Would you take just a minute and share it with them? In closing, I want to leave you with this prayer from number six, twenty four to twenty six. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you. The Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace.