(Part 2) How Harris Media Built Consistent, Human-Centered Storytelling at Scale

(Part 2) We explore how Harris Media balances creative integrity with business strategy, why trust and team structure matter more than gear, and how process and relationships sustain growth through industry shifts. Practical advice anchors the talk: diagnose client problems, price with clarity, manage seasons, and invest in fundamentals.

• balancing leadership across business and creative
• daily rituals, family priorities, and tradeoffs
• trusting specialists while guarding standards
• strategy as the leader’s primary job
• word of mouth vs social media’s evolving role
• treating your own brand as a client with case studies
• market noise vs self-audit and adaptation
• production process from problem to platform
• good–better–best pitching and scoping
• client-friendly policies on RAWs and revisions
• ops stack, meetings, and workflow hygiene
• advice for newcomers on lighting, reels, and money

As always, if you have questions or thoughts from me or Rudy, I'm sure they'll be in a description somewhere

Check out Harris media: https://www.harrismediaco.com/

FilmStory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/filmstory/id1641955836

What do we do: https://myfilmstory.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@myfilmstory

Transcript

Balancing Business and Creativity

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So now I wanna I wanna dive a little bit deeper into the nitty gritty of uh of Airs Media. And as I'm thinking about like what you guys are doing now, what I've called you guys since I've come to recognize what you guys do is as one of the the premier uh like production houses that's in this uh North Kentucky, Cincinnati, Andy area. Um what tends to be like the day in and day out, I'm curious what tends to be on your mind when it comes to you mentioned ADP apparel. So let's let's over there. But when it comes to balancing uh this is a very creative uh work, but like you said, there's also business. So I'm curious what is it like kind of balancing that duality as you're going through growing and scaling this? Is there like times where you you do you feel like maybe your default tends to be on one side more than the other? Um how are you handling situations where uh maybe the creativity isn't meeting the business or the business side isn't quite meeting what you need to do creatively? Um how do you go about walking that line a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah, wow, so interesting. So I mean, the the truth is now the business as it sits now is I am 70% focused on business. Um uh maybe less than that, uh maybe 50-50, but I am mostly focused on business. But because our business is the business of creativity, I still have to be focused a little bit, right? Make sure that it's to my standards of what I want things to be. Um but yes, I mean the day to day is I mean, almost I mean, my day, I didn't do it this morning because I had an early meeting. Um, I physically go onto pages on my laptop and I type a prayer. That's how I've been doing it for like the past couple months. I just type out a prayer, give me the wisdom, let me be better than it was, whatever it is, right? And I type and I close my eyes, and so then I what's funny is I look and I'm like, man, I'm a terrible typer. None of these words are right. Um but so I typically do that, and that's been a new uh practice for me in in a little bit. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Um, bad typing on it.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Uh oh yeah, yeah. Um I'm telling you, type your prayer, there's something about it. And what's funny is sometimes I'll be typing, I'll be like, oh, that's probably right. Facts, backs, backs, why why do I care about that? Uh that doesn't make any sense. Uh but um is I I'm typically gonna start with business, right? I'm gonna look and see what's coming up, what's on the calendar. Um, I do this at home too, and so what's my day look like? Because my wife also, like, hey, what time are you gonna be home? And I've I want to be home on it's that duality too, of like, I want to be home with my two small kids and my wife.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

But this supports that. So it's like that balance is the hardest beyond the creative and business. It's like I want to be there, but if I don't do this well, then that becomes a show

Daily Rituals, Family, and Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_01 3:00

in itself and not good. So that's a bigger duality for me. But um, between the creative and business, it's um I have a lot of faith in the let's see, six uh six, seven, the eight, what the eight people that are outside of this office that are in our in our studio, in our in our annex, in our office side of the buildings, that I know that they're gonna do a good job. Um, I do have to check in and sometimes be like, hey, you're not doing this right, or we gotta focus on this, but I have a lot of faith. There are projects though that I put my feet in and go, this one is near and dear to me, this client is near and dear to me, or um I have the vision, here's what I want. Um, but I have a lot of faith in those people that they're gonna do what's what I expect of them in the sense of excellence and doing it in that fun nature. I want that always. Um I'm a big goof, I'm a big dork, so I want it to be fun and interesting. Um so my day is typically filled with a lot of businessy thoughts and decisions. Um, right, wrong or indifferent, not to bring this this dude into uh the podcast, but um he has kind of a great, I don't want to say a quote, but thought, but Elon Musk was asked at his big conference about running a big business and this and this and this. And he's like, well, I mean, the truth is when you're the owner or leader of a big business or any business other than a super small business, you don't get to see the small little wins, the day-to-day wins. You see the biggest wins, but you mostly see all the problems. The problems, the things that reach your desk, 10 levels that people couldn't figure out, right? So you have to go, all right, well, let me think of that. So my day is filled with strategy. Um, and I even made a Venn diagram when we promoted our producer to the executive producer, like, all right, you got keys of the castle, you can kind of do a lot what you want and run it. Um, I made a diagram of like, here is my thought process, and it was wild and stupid. I was like, I'm not really looking for you to memorize this, but um, my day is filled with that, that strategy of what does this creative mean for the client? How do we pull that off? If we don't pull it off, what happens? It is it is all strategy. It's that chess game like I brought up. I am always thinking about chess now because I have much more creative people in the room that can do better than I can. Um, and mind you, I still will throw my two cents and go, that's the idea, or no, this is the one we're going with. Um, it's mine, but it's rare that I'm like that this is my idea and we're doing it. Um sometimes I do have to go, nope, I don't like that. I want it this way on certain projects. Like we're even doing case study videos of ourselves right now. So one of our editor producers, Mo, is him mostly editing them, and me and her are working in tandem. She's doing 98% of the work, and then I come in and go, nope, don't like that, change this, change that. And I will put my foot down sometimes, but it's mostly I'm a pretty open, easy-going guy in that sense. Um, so yeah, my day-to-day is mostly business and a little bit of the creative and balancing that. Um, I find just in our particular position, I know that this is a position of blessitude. I don't have to be like in the creative as much and like demand things or anything because I trust that I have a good group of people out there doing a track. And I mean with

Leading Teams and Quality Standards

SPEAKER_01 6:30

that, we're we're doing well over a hundred productions a year. I'm not on most of the productions anymore either. I know that they're gonna do what I want them to do. I know that I have set up this is the way that I want things to be. Um, this is the excellence, this is the attitudes, this is the this, go make it happen. Um, and sometimes it's hard for our staff more than even me. Um, but it is, you know, it's a it is a balancing act. But to go back to the home, home and work are far more hard and difficult. In the beginning days, it was like we're just working. And mind you, we just got married. We're trying to figure out how to be married too, right? That that's a whole different topic. We won't go into it. That was that was crazy, crazy time in life for sure. Hard, arduous time in life for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

You're saying you guys just got married?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Me and my wife just got we got married five weeks before the business. Well, the business started five weeks before we got married. So while we were getting, you know what I mean? We're building a business at the same time of learning how to be married and how to respect one another. So me and my wife's fights are quick, are disagreements. We rarely, we do, we do, but they are quick and they end with us being like, yeah, okay, I was a jerk. Yeah, so was I. Like we just get through it because we went through so much in those beginning days of just hard, hard, hard building both things um that it feels just like rock. Like we're there's a there was somebody a long time ago. If you're married to the if you're running a business and you're married, like co-owners and you're married, you get to measure your uh anniversary and dog years. So like 14 times 7, man. Like we've been married a long time because we we've been through it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Wow, absolutely. Let's that's again interesting perspective. I rec hearing from you, I recognize just where I am in comparing to where you are, and I think it's great because you've you've given me some insight of uh a part of what a potential future could look like for this kind of a craft. Um I value your input and your insight. So thank you for that. I think it's interesting that uh being able to uh you know, you you have at this point, uh thankfully you have different people on your team that handle different roles and responsibilities. Um and I always like as you were sharing, you know, like this person is the editing editing her, she's the head of the editing, and then you have the creative director, and then you have that. I was I was in my head, I was like, dang, I do that too. Dang, I do that too. 100%. I do that too. Yeah, how am I yeah, we just had a kid. Oh, yeah, that's right. Oh man, married it's it's it's like it is so hard.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

And it's hard. My life was harder than truly. It was there is more stress. I got more gray. It's going everywhere now, man. That's crazy. I got more gray and stress now, but the labor side of it was way harder than when it was just me and Tammy. It was, it was so brutally hard. Like brutal, brutal, brutal. Um, we have we still joke. There's a thing. Our old brand was the Married Faux Togs, right? Um, if you go on that website now, it's a different organization and that's just a different topic we won't go into. Um, but the Married Faux Togs, we still every once in a while we call it the Married Photogs Dinner, where

Strategy Over Tactics

SPEAKER_01 10:00

just the day gets away from us uh now. But back in the day, we were eating dinner at around 9 or 10 p.m. every night. Because that's the only time we could find.

unknown 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Like at least four nights a week. It was so we call it now, it's like it's the Married Photogs Dinner. TMP dinner. Because it's just it happens every once in a while. But it is so I truly, what you're saying, like I just is a that's what it was in the beginning. And now, because of the people out there that I trust, I have a lot less day-to-day things, right? Those this edit, this that, you know, whatever. I have more stress, but I have a lot less of that because they are talented and are able to do it. So totally yeah, I totally don't envy that position. It it's hard, but also there's a pureness to it, right? They're just like, it is me this moment, and I'm doing it. Um, whereas now I have to rely on other people. But I trust them.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So yeah, absolutely. Amazing. Well, let's let's talk social media and production. Um the fun, the fun social media. So um, like what is you guys' history of like building your social media like your presence online? I think when I think about like uh like the level of importance it is to you guys in building social media and and and goals of getting leads from that. Is that something you guys think about a lot every day, or is it something where it's like you do it when you can, or like what what's that whole world like for you guys on its just think like level of importance and how you guys go about it? Just curious.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, for sure. For us, it changed um in two ways. So, like way back in the day when we were still doing weddings, it was it. It's all and and the truth is our field and any field, any restaurant, any anything, right? A lot of it is word of mouth. That's that is I I still I work in marketing. We sell marketing, right? Word of mouth is it. Everything else supports it, but the word of mouth and then that experience, right? Go to a restaurant, someone told you it's really good, you go and it sucked, you say that restaurant sucked, right? Um it's got good reviews, but it sucked, it sucked, right? Or whatever. Um, so social media back then, Married Photo Talks, it was huge, right? So we would every Tuesday, we we would do it was called preview Tuesday. If we had one wedding or two weddings, sometimes only a couple times we did three weddings, crazy. Um, in a weekend, we would write a blog, post previews. We'd edit like 10 photos, post previews on our website, share the link on our Facebook page, our Instagram, and also share the photos, tag the bride and groom, um, all that sort of stuff. That was huge for us. Um, that not only that word of mouth, but it's solidified so people could point back to it and go like, oh yeah, no, they're awesome. Look at this. Oh my god, it's a cute married couple. Oh my god, this is amazing. I love it. Um, so that that whole branding thing, really social media, all that is all back to that brand, right? That was huge then. I won't say that it's not important for us now, um, but it's not as huge. So the idea we have gotten stuff from Instagrams and the LinkedIns, we have the majority of our stuff comes from word of mouth and that relationship, right? Of getting into a business and establishing roots, and then someone leaves and goes to another business, and now they bring us, and then keeps that spider web grows, right? Um social media, we still do it as much as we should, probably not. Um, we we try as best we can. It's sort of it's like the do as I say, not as I do, right? Like you need to be doing this company. You guys don't do it. Yeah, but you need to do it. Like, you know what I mean? It's it becomes hard to to do what you do for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

You guys, it's where you guys are now, like well established in the area, well known. Um I would assume you probably would uh you tell me, but I would assume that you guys would probably get more people trying to connect with you than I mean, of course, you know, like I said, networking events, but I would think you get more people trying to connect with you than you trying to connect with those in this area.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's uh most of the stuff that comes through for social media is people wanting to connect with us. Um and that's I mean, I love connecting with people. You never know. Um there's a phrase of one of my good friends, TJ, coined, I think, anyways, years ago, you never know who your next boss is.

unknown 14:28

Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

So that's treat everybody right. But also you never know. Like somebody that we meet, they might go and get a job as a marketing communications or whatever, and they bring us in. So um I love I I almost never, well not almost, I never say no to a meeting, rather than we can find the time and it works out, but I never say like no, I'm not gonna be with you through that. No, I always meet anybody that wants to meet. I'm happy to share knowledge and just chat and learn about them like we did when you came to our shop a few uh a few weeks ago or whatever, a few months back. Um, but yeah, social media is is huge, obviously, in this world for us currently. It is not as big as it used to be, but there is an element um our creative director is treat yourself as a client, right? So our case study videos that we're doing, we used to go like, hey, we need to do a demo reel, and then three years later, like, are we gonna do this?

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

And it's because we would just say do it. So the case studies video is a project. It is on our, we use a uh Monday.com, it's our

Marriage, Startup Grit, and resilience

SPEAKER_01 15:30

project management tool. It is there. HM Co case studies, it is a part of it. It is, and I I had to myself tell the team like it is a project. It is not like it would be so cool if it's like, no, this is a project, it is happening. We have I want to do it because for all of our RFPs or any estimates, we send out a deck and it has case studies. So rather than just like here's a static video or a static image, they click on it, it takes you to a case study. You see the actual video that we made, you see how it just creates this again, it's that consistency, it's that brand, it's that like, oh, I know I'm gonna get this level from Harris Media. And that does go back to social, but are we as good as we should be? No, man, we're not. I try to be, because it's me. Right now, we're not to the point of like we want to hire somebody to do social. Um, that would be sick. Um, but it's just it just becomes so hard. But if I'm also honest, I could do it. I could. I got plenty of other people doing so much stuff uh they're doing all a lot of it. I could, it's just having them mental capacity, and then that side of it gets a little hard. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah, man. That's okay. So one of the things that I have recognized that is every single video production company, entity, content creator, real creator, whatever in the video world has that issue where they being able to treat themselves like their client for themselves, where you know, wanting to create that that promotional piece, or really promotional always has like a stigma to it. I'd say creating content that actually uh shares the the values of the company and building a kind of a library that shows that uh online. And so I think that's that's one thing, you know, if I'm turning the tables to myself, that's one thing that I recognize um I want to help people with is that kind of content creation is something that goes a little bit beyond you know, sitting down, setting up the perfect interview setting and saying, well, you know, we provide this service and that service and we do this and that. But it you really take an opportunity to kind of dive into uh the why a little bit along with the end product. Um I I think that what you're saying, even with uh Harris Media, um it's not a big uh from my perspective, it's not a huge thing if like we only post one time a week versus three times a week, whatever it is. But I think being able to to bring on that uh one step closer into the the the eyes and the heart of Harris Media to build an even more of a solid connection to potential clients and things like that. I mean, that's that's universal, and it's just something I continue to see because we're so busy working in the business and like everything else, it's hard to kind of turn that camera towards ourselves and say, 100%, how do we do this?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

You know, um yeah, it's it's the idea of like cooks, chefs don't want to cook at home. Like, I don't want to do that, man. Like I just cooked all day, right? But it is now that I'm not doing that nitty-gritty um as much, I can then go, hey guys, we're gonna do this, and I want to do this, so we're gonna do this, right? Um, those are the times where I do will go like putting my foot down, we're going to do that. Because not like I've said so, but it is kind of like because I've said so. And we need it because you also want your clients, your potential clients, your current clients to connect. Um, like I I we have so many friends in relationships now because of doing this for 14 years, and a lot of them were were or our clients, but we also tier to that friend level, and we want them to know about us, we want, you know, vice versa, we want to know about them. Um and it's not necessarily from a sales, but it's like, dude, like if this isn't about relationship, then it's all vanity and it's all just like a money-making scheme. It's like, data, you know, I posted on LinkedIn a while ago. I actually said it in a client meeting, like, I'm not looking to build a bank account, I'm looking to build a legacy. Um, and that's it wasn't a phrase that I was like, man, this is gonna be good, they're gonna love this.

Social Media Then vs Now

SPEAKER_01 20:00

It was like truthfully, like, yeah, we need a bank account, we need it to be able to support the people and support ourselves. But I I'd much prefer to create a legacy of like good content, good people doing good things, doing positive things in the in the neighborhood, and for for clients. I don't know, yeah, but you want that brand, you need that social media presence to point to that and show who you are because clients we you gravitate towards that. We as consumers of social media, both as creators and consumers of it, we are going to these businesses because of their brand, right? We're going, and part of that is social media, so you have to do it too, but it is just so to your point, it's like, I don't want to do that. I just did it all day, you know what I mean? But you do have to turn the camera sometimes and point it on yourselves for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, yeah, man. Um, yeah, and I think being able to then then when you talk about building consistency and SOPs for that, you know, that's that's like, okay, well that's look that's a whole okay, all right. How do we how do we figure that out? You know, that's a whole thing. But um that's great. So I think, you know, one of the uh this is a question that I've uh that's been in the the video universe, and it's kind of not um one of the main things that I wanted to ask you, but since you're bringing this up, you know, there's this talk now of the the middle ground realm of video production kind of becoming a little I don't know, maybe obsolete's kind of a hard word, but just kind of vanishing, where it's either the the quick reels phone edits or it's the really higher end production, like right under Hollywood, but above like you know, single video boutique companies can do. Uh, do you feel like there's some truth to that, or it just kind of depends on what's happening? And this is more of a broad market perspective, you know. Yeah, not you know, Rudy Harris's life, but just from your input looking into the market and video and what it's becoming, do you do you find that being kind of true, or do you feel like it's not really every man for themselves do what you gotta do? Kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, the majority of our work is that middle ground stuff. So you're saying your work of what we're doing is that middle stuff that, like, hey, it's not this gigantic production, it's smaller, it's a few hours, it's a half day, it's a day, it's two days, not these giant five, ten day, 30-person cruise shoots. Um, majority is so um I think um, and there's probably some data and analytics that someone could point to, like, it is that, that's what's happening. I um I'm kind of an old fart, and I don't believe anything anyone says almost ever anymore. So when I hear people say that, I just go, okay, sounds good. You know, I because I've heard that, like, hey, you know, and like AI is good, mind you, you know, AI is like a little like, ooh, that's interesting, you know, whatever. That'll hurt some things and be better for some that whatever. I just um while I'm proactive and constantly trying to make the network grow and the business run, um, I also guess the answer would be, I don't know. Maybe it is, but at the end of the day, uh I I have to work on worry on us, I have to worry on how to build our business, what new ways to change and to adapt, and prove why you do need that, um, and why it is a good thing, and what why our services are better than that, and this and X and Y and Z. Um yeah, man, I I think um the times that I've heard, and I'm not saying it's necessarily this topic, but the times that I've heard so much negative stuff, I typically hear from people that aren't doing super well. Well, so because the industry's changing, you're like, is it or is your business changing? And I'm not saying that's true or not, but I just I just question everything. And because I I said this at a meeting earlier, like I said, I said, listen, nobody tells the truth fully. Everybody paints a brush that makes them look like in a better light. So it's a lot easier, and again, I'm not saying it's not true, it might be true, it's a lot easier to say that the industry is shifting versus what I'm doing isn't working. You know what I mean? It's a lot easier to say that than to admit maybe I'm not doing something right. Um, and I think that all the time. Like, maybe we're not doing something right. If we're hurting, I literally brought it up to my team that certain things got taken away from us earlier this year. Still working with a certain client, but it started, and I was like, guys, there's something we're not doing. That's the truth. And we can very easily say, well, no, it's them, it's them, it's this. And maybe it is that, but if you don't for a

Treating Yourself as a Client

SPEAKER_01 25:00

second self-audit, look introspective and go, is it me? Yeah, it's like being in a relationship. Oh, it's her fault, it's his fault. Maybe it is, but did you do anything? You know, I'm not not like with like a infidelity or anything like that, but when it's like you're just if you're just pointing somewhere else and you're not at least for a second, going, maybe it is me, dude. I just think you become a bitter and angry person. So that's a really larger thing than we're talking about. But it is, I just I often when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, maybe it is true, or is it just easier for you to say that than to admit something you're not doing, you're not adapting to the network, to the market, right? So we've had um I've heard other photographers say stuff similar to that and all that. Um I went to a big conference, the PPA, Professional Photographers of America, and this whole um, this whole um, I went to this class, it was more business, right? And they were talking about how providing digitals is gonna ruin the world. The globe is gonna stop spinning. You have to do prints, print sales, print sales, and mind you, to be very as and you know, I'm I'm middle-aged now, which is hard to admit. Um, the group was all middle-aged or above, like 50s and 60s, right? And I'm like, well, yeah, that's what it was then when there wasn't digital, and you're holding on to this model that's not in existence anymore. So what I it's sort of that adapt or die thing, right? It is that like adapter die. So maybe it is true that middle ground is being washed away. Well, then how do you scale back your stuff? How do you upscale your stuff? What new offerings? How can you prove yourself, right? So it's easier. I I just always go, it's easier to point the other direction than to stop and go, maybe I'm not doing something right. Maybe something we're doing as a company isn't right. And often it is like, no, we're doing everything right, it's just the way it shook out. But if we're not at least for a second going, what did we do? What is going on? What is happening in this world, in the industry, in politics, in government, in this and that? Let's think about it for a second. What's happening and not just go, it's someone else's fault, not ours. Um, that's a really larger answer, probably than you're thinking. But I just I just always hear that stuff, and I'm like, I mean, maybe, you know, and maybe it is, but also can we both do you are you looking first at yourself versus elsewhere?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So yeah, man. I think the uh the the I've thought about that a lot and like seeing where the market is looks like it's might be trying to go, and then where I line up with it. And the truth is from the moment I started doing this back in 2011, officially, my heart and my goal was always to try to build something where I can literally help the community that's around me and build those around me that are wanting to learn how to do this. And I had zero vision for video. Like I I my undergrad was mass media, so I had that a little bit, but I didn't have the knowledge that I had now, I didn't have the insight that I had now, but I know I wanted to work with a team and I wanted to work on things that were actually worth doing. That was like all I had. Um, and I started doing everything photography, video, menu photography, sports photography, did music videos first. Small, very small. Anyway, that's besides the point. But yeah, I think even now when I hear that stuff like with AI and where we're heading and stuff like that, my my heart and my desire is still people, it's still story first, like it's still being able to like get to the heart of those things and telling those stories so that way it can encourage or inspire or help or bring awareness or you know bring people on. And I think AI could serve as a really cool way to help with some of that, but it doesn't like sway or dictate, like, all right, well, forget all that. Now we're gonna just do AI reels and like get paid on monthly subscriptions and just create like random videos for everybody. You know, it's it doesn't it doesn't there might be a different way to get to my goal a little bit, but the goal hasn't changed. I think that's that's where in some ways I kind of have a similar thought to like okay, well maybe I don't, I guess. I mean it seems cool. I I like that it automates my clips. Like that's that's cool, you know. I don't you know, besides that, um we're moving forward. So that's that's that's my insight. Um but I was just curious from from a person of your perspective. Um sweet. So um production wise, uh

Is Mid-Tier Video Disappearing?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I love being able to get a little bit behind the curtains as we get into like this last final section. Um I I'm curious what it's like for you guys. Like if you had um uh you know you guys know carabello coffee is right near you guys. So if they reached out to you and said, hey guys, we'd love to bring you guys on. We want you guys to help us film up like a promotional video that we're gonna use for social media and it's gonna stay on our website. Um and we'd love to excuse me, we'd love to bring you guys on to help with it. Could you walk me through somehow what that uh uh the the the internal process like for Harris Media, how you guys would go through like okay, the story figuring that out, uh uh because there could be different stories, different thoughts, different ideas to like production, to like say editing, but post-production and like revisions, like what is that process like for you guys? Um and I don't know how else to say this, but I think you'll understand when I say this. Um I'm talking a little bit beyond just uh like I think this should we use the Sony FX3, right? I'm thinking more like what is the the process in the communication and the critical thinking to be able to determine this might work, this probably not so much. Like, how do you go through that kind of process? However, you can share that.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah, for sure. I mean, so I mean in the beginning phase, it is we're we're identifying the problem with the client because it's always everything we're doing is trying to fix a problem, right? Yep. We we have a new product or a service or whatever, we want to sell it and we want to inform the public. So we identify the problem and then we start figuring um out where it's going, right? Because different messages are going to play different on different platforms. Um after that, it becomes uh typically kind of a group exercise, not always. Um, a lot of our clients too are like, hey, here's exactly what I want. And then we go, well, what if we add some season? Let's spice it up a little bit. A lot of my knowledges are food, by the way, if you can't tell that. Um because everybody eats, everybody, everybody knows, you know, you understand it. Um it's you know, it's we we can put our two cents in. Other ones are, hey, we just want this thing, and you gotta help us figure out how to make it work. Um, it we we do like to practice group brainstorms when we're able, and it may not be a full group, but it's a few people. Um so yeah, I mean, it is really discovering with the client and partnering with them and saying, all right, here's some ideas. Um, we often will deliver a good better best, right? Both from a production side scale, but also project, like the idea, the creative. Like, here's a good version, here's a better one, and here's the best one.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

So, like, to pause there, you're saying good better best as in video examples of good better best, or like script outlines of good better best, like the whole comp whole concept and production scale, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

So the scale, the scope, you know, here's this project at X dollars, this would accomplish X, here's what it'll do. Here's this next one, here's this next one. So it's good better best. We often don't do that, not that all of them are like that. Um, and I mean that is also a sales perspective, right? So we will often go, man, what if it's like this? And it's like super cool, and that's our best, right? Or whatever. Um, and then we still want to go, but let's scale it back a little bit. Like even we just um while we've been talking, we got an email from a client that we did pitch to them, hey, you're saying you're saying these things in this email. Have you thought about also doing this? This will accomplish your goal. We know that you originally thought just X, right? But to accomplish your actual goal, you might want to actually have Z as well as X. But budget wise, we're gonna go, nah, we only got X, right? And that's fine. We're not like, well then we're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Um so we we we will Is that conversation happening with certain team members, or is it like every Monday we have a board meeting?

SPEAKER_01 34:05

How does that work? We do, I mean, every Monday we do have a meeting, Monday or Tuesday, to to to go over all the projects, what are the status, and then what's the shoots, what's this week, what's next week look like. Um so we're all on the same page as much as humanly possible, but things change every day for us, um, minute by minute. But as far as the brainstorm and like figuring out, it's simply not the whole group. We will often want to have smaller groups, or it'll be open air. You've been to our our shop, it's um all the editors and the creative director, they're all in one spot. So everybody just talks um and jokes, jokes around and goofs around a little bit, but then what if we do this? What if this? What if that? And we'll everybody will hear it like, oh, what if we do this? So that happens. Um, but often it is much more smaller groups that are doing it just so we can continue to work. Because if we had to brainstorm as a group for all of our projects, dude, gosh, it's not a 40-hour week, it's gonna be a 70-hour week for everybody, and I don't want that. Uh that's a terrible work-life balance. So um, so yeah, I mean, the the I mean the overall, I mean, the the the theory is the client comes with a with a problem, and we are creatively solving it, right? And how do we sell this or tell people about this or tell this story? Here's our approach, right? So um to a super nuts and bolts, we do send a deck. And our deck, it has our capabilities, who we are, our quick brand story, and then some case studies that uh coalesce with what they're talking about, right? So we don't send um somebody that wants an um emotionally driven interview story, based story, product photography. Well, we don't care about that. Um so we we um we do that and and then we we mold it together. We want to be in partnership with the client um as much as humanly possible. Um, we also do a lot

Adapt, Audit, and Avoid Excuses

SPEAKER_01 36:00

of really crazy things that people go, I can't believe you do that, but we do it. And I mean it's as a one, there's two things that people go, like, well, wait. Um the client owns all the raw, it's theirs. There are many court cases that say that's true. And when I hear people like, well, I own the copyright, like, unless you have it in writing, you do not. They own it, they paid for it, it's theirs. It's the same reason that the person who made White Out doesn't own White Out because they worked. Scientists at PG don't own this shampoo. You might have made it, but PG paid you to make it. So, and it's also not worth a battle. Like, that's my brain. Like, do I really want to say, like, I've sought legal counsel? Like, no, you just lost that client forever. Um, it's not worth it. And it's like, what benefit does that raw footage actually have to me? Can I sell it? No, because who wants someone else's brand on their video, right? Like, what am I gonna do with it? Um, but then we also don't really do limits on rounds of changes.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

We don't do like two rounds and you pay more. Like, no, we estimate appropriately that we, you know, over so many productions, we know that you know, we typically say for every minute of video, it's 10 hours of post-production, roughly. But because the way that we budget it out and and manage our resources, we're able to then go, cool, we're on V7. Yeah, we want it to be V3, but it's okay. We're fine. It'll be okay. Um, so yeah, so we we to answer your question, we want to work in partnership, and part of that is those policies, right? Work in partnership that they have a good experience. It all goes back to the experience, making sure it's a good content and it's delivering their their and solving their problem, but that it was a good experience to get there. We don't want it to be like they had to jump hurdles and just work so hard to make this thing work. We hate when that happens. Uh I hate when that isn't a feeling or a sentiment. Um, we should feel that way a little bit. We should be like, this was a hard project. They shouldn't feel like it was a hard project. So um, so yeah, within the beginning, we're we're identifying everything with them and working with them to make sure it's gonna do what they want, right? And that sounds, I don't know, like probably what everybody does, but we just take a really in-depth approach to that.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

I don't think I've heard of people giving away raw footage or giving away paying for the raw footage in whatever deal you wake up or um pretty much unlimited revisions. So normally I hear there's some kind of a limit, and then after that's a certain amount.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Um almost everybody does that.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, okay. So I was gonna say I don't think I don't I think you guys have been the first maybe that I think of that can do that. But as far as the um what was the first thing I said? The the Raws. The RAWs, um the only thing that I could think of why you'd want to keep it is which I would assume you'd be able to is for your own marketing.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, I mean there Yeah, I could easily see that. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's so there is literally there has been there's been copyright law, like rulings on both sides of that equation. I said that at this independent film festival is coming up this weekend, by the way. Um I don't know when this is coming up, but this weekend, as we're talking today, it's this weekend. I I spoke, we were a sponsor, we're a sponsor this year. Last year we were a sponsor, and I spoke, and a guy from New York who was there was bringing up like the client wants the role, and I said, Cool, how much are you possibly gonna make from it?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

And he's like, I don't know. And I was like, Do you think 500 bucks? He's like, Maybe, and I was like, thousand bucks. He said, Maybe. I said fifty thousand dollars, and he's like, probably not, and I was like, right, so what I'm gonna tell you is there are court cases that side both ways, but as soon as you bring up court cases, unless you have something in writing, you have lost that client. You're talking about my lawyer, dude, you're out forever, you're out forever. I would kick you out. I'd be like, no, get out. All right, fine, I don't get the raw footage. Well, you're dead to me. We literally have a client right now that we have because the last agent they worked with wanted to charge them, and maybe they're right and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm working for them and they're not. And there's almost no benefit short of my demo reels and all that, there's no benefit for me. I can't repackage and sell this branded content to another company, right? And it's just weird. And I don't know, I just I don't know. I get kind of passionate about the topic because it comes up all the time, and I'm like, unless you have something signed, they commissioned you. You are a commissioned artist and they own it. The project files, like your working files, no, because there are stuff within that that is your IP, but the thing that they paid you for is to shoot it, right? So it just gets weird. But also, I could be totally

Process: From Problem to Production

SPEAKER_01 41:00

wrong. Uh I probably am. I'm probably mostly wrong about everything. Um, but it's just like, dude, when you bring up, well, according to copyright law, kiss them goodbye, man. There's no way that they're gonna be like, you know what, you've convinced me and I like you. They're gonna be like, get the literal out of here. Like, it's just not it's not a good business practice, right? And maybe it's right, maybe it's legally right, and but I just what we do, unless you're shooting for stock library, right? Or just general, okay, cool, but if a client has paid you, there is precedent that says they own that, and not just your finish work, but the the raw material, it'd be like the contractor that built on this, like, well, I own the wood. Like, no, no, I own the wood. Right? Like, I own it. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Agreed. Yeah, I think uh uh our you know, full transparency. We do what you do as far as the the footage. Like it's yeah, we literally say that you know, with this product, you will own the final product and the footage. You know, if you choose to want it and we can give it to you. Um they're wanting to you know create some kind of a secondary edit, then we can talk about that. But correct, yeah, 100% editing. Yeah, I don't and most like you're saying, most times I don't have like building a demo reel or some kind of marketing piece is about the full extent to me getting paid for that, really, because it's maybe somebody sees it and likes it kind of a thing. But yeah, that's that's true. And I haven't I even thought about that. Like if if you talk about that to the client, then you're pretty much dead to them. That's very true. Like, I I I have thankfully have never had to have that experience, but again, I'm learning from your testimony there.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Oh no, literally that guy from New York, I said, Have you already talked about it? He said, Yeah, I've talked about copyright laws, like they're not your client anymore.

unknown 42:58

Dang.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

They're not, man. And he's like, Oh, and I was like, You better go kiss some butt and say, I'm really sorry, if you want to retain that client. I was like, because what is the possible it's like, what if that thousand dollars that you get for the raw footage costs you ten million dollars over the lifetime of working for these people? Wouldn't you just hate it if you could fast forward and then look backwards? It's just not worth it, man. And he kind of got mad at me, and I'm like, you do you. Hope it works out, hope they pay you a million dollars. That'd be sick. I mean that's gonna happen. They're gonna say forget you, and you're out. And then you have their footage on your hard drive for no reason. Like, come on, man, just give it to them. But anyways, yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Great insight. So, okay, I get the general idea with the the the flow of the production. Um, I can see how it works out. Um and some of those I did take notes on, so thank you for sure. Um but uh what kind of along with that uh do you guys have any? Um I'm sure you do. You mentioned Monday for the other stuff you've done, but what other softwares do you guys tend to use for that process at all? Besides like jump editing, like we got that.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. Um yeah, I mean it's mostly just Monday, that's what we're using. And then we're I mean, we're in the the Google Suite, so any documents are pretty much being made in that um that need to be any spreadsheets for budgeting and all that stuff. Um we we tend to be lower phi than maybe we should uh in that regard. Um and we just met with a a client and looked at their operation, um, a potential client that we're trying to work towards. Um, and I was so impressed by how detailed they were that I was like, dude, we gotta change. So we j, I mean, I'm literally as we're speaking, going, we need to change a little bit and be a little bit more formal. Um, not that we were like, eh, we'll just figure it out. It wasn't ever really that. Well, that's not true. Way back in the day it was that. Um but it is that that weekly meeting, make sure everybody's on the same page. Um, there's constantly meetings all day, every day, because with the volume of work we do and the amount of changes that come through, just happens, right? Um so yeah, it's um Monday is pretty much our predominant, that's what we use the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Okay, man, that's very great, good insight, man. Again, that's the thing. Great insight. Um, I'm I'm curious, you know, as we kind of wrap up and conclude here, I think about uh the all of the like my I think my heart and my mind is always on the up-and-coming people, like the up-and-coming videographers or storytellers that are wanting to do this. Um like what what do you in your experience so far? Maybe what do you wish like more up and coming uh videographers or content creators uh what do you wish they maybe understood earlier in their journey as they're trying to push forward in what they have maybe an initial understanding of? Like what do you think they would understand uh more earlier in their career?

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Wow, during that time.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah, um I there's kind of two I would go. One is more on the the tech and art side of it, and the other is like the business side of it, right? So the the tech art side is um it's kind of multi-part in reality, but don't fall into the gear trap. Um going back to another cooking analogy, a good oven is not gonna make me a better chef, right? It's the fundamentals of cooking, it's the fundamentals of it that'll make you a better chef. So when I see young and up and coming, and they've like, I bought all this aperture stuff and I bought this, and I bought it, I'm like, wow, that's I is this all in debt or is it a credit card? Did someone give you money? Did you just happen to have money? So the gear trap of like, I have to have, I have to have, I have to have.

Good–Better–Best Pitching

SPEAKER_01 47:00

No tool is gonna make you better if you don't have the fundamentals behind it, right? Um, and then the the buzz phrase that just just makes me so mad is I'm a natural light, natural light photographer, natural light, and it's like what you're telling me as an owner and a guy that's been doing this for a long time, is you don't know how to use light. That you're gonna give me good stuff if the light is nice outside, but you don't even know how to use and typically they don't even know how to do that and how to turn a body and move them around to make that light better. Right. That's the one thing I am pretty good at, not to toot my own horn because I'm not good at a lot of things. Lighting, like I love lighting, I like studying lighting. I'm just sitting and watching and looking at your lighting, and being like, yeah, I probably should have put a light up instead of just my house size, but whatever. Um, I love lighting, like that's super fun for me. Um but to that side, right, is not fall into the gear trap and really study and understand how to the fundamentals of light and shooting and all that, that's huge. And we get too many people that come in, like, oh yeah, I could totally do it, and then they're not super great at it. Um, or you see their demo reel. Also, the whole demo reel thing. I joke like demo reels are just a lie because anybody can make a really good demo reel really quick, especially now with AI. So it's like, here's the 10 best shots I've ever done. It's like, good, good job, buddy. Cool. Show me a whole project. Give me a case study, tell me what you did.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Where's the 95%? Let me see that.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah. I actually had a guy reach out and I was like, Can you show me your worst project? Because he sent me like a sick demo reel. I was like, hey, this is cool. Can you show me your worst project? And he's like, Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, here's one. And it, if it was his worst project, he is gifted. But it was clearly still a really good one. He's like, I'm not showing you my worst project. Um if you're gonna be honest with me, I might hire you. Uh, but anyways, um the other side, the the the business side is to not get disheartened by slow months, slow weeks. Um, manage your money. Don't if you're having a big month, it doesn't mean that you get to spend it all. It's planned for those slow months. Summer and art for us, every year for 14 years has always been a little slower. Um, especially in corporate and communications, the decision makers are all going on vacations with their kids. So they're not gonna do anything right now. Or if they're on a fiscal year and not a calendar year, their fiscal year just started, they're not gonna blow through. They either have no money left over, or they're not gonna be like, all right, it's time to just rip through everything. Fall and spring is where a lot of heavy months. I can look back at our I have every year, you know, we track every dollar that comes through. It's always those spring and fall months that are historically most. We do have sometimes where it's a huge project in the summer, but it would be one project, not a ton of shoots. You can even look at the amount of checks coming in, there's less in the summer. Whether they don't want to be big or not, they're physically less income checks, less invoices going out during those periods. Um, so it is not to just live like, oh man, I'm making so much money, let me buy all this gear, and then June rolls around and you're like, oh no, what did I do? It's to live a balanced life as much as possible. Freelance, business, anything is like live a balanced life as best as you possibly can. Everybody gets wooed when you're like, look at all this money coming, even I to this day. All right, what should we buy? And really, it's like nah, pause. Think about the winter and the summer that will happen. So agreed.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Amazing, man. Well, Ruby, thank you for taking the time, man. I appreciate it. I'm sure we went longer than anticipated, but I had a feeling there would be a lot of awesome points here, and and thank you for taking the time. I think uh there's any last comments or thoughts or something that you need to get off your chest because it's just been burning with desire since we've got to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Uh no, man. I have no other thoughts. I just I'm appreciative to you for doing this. I think this is really cool and impactful for uh up and comings and veterans. I think it's a cool idea, and uh, that's why I said yes, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Awesome, amazing. Well, thank you so much, man. Uh, thank you guys for tuning in and listening. Um, as always, if you have questions or thoughts from me or Rudy, I'm sure they'll be in a description somewhere. Um as always, thank you guys for listening, and we'll catch you on the next one. Thanks.