Achieving Joy and Mastery in Public Schools
This podcast is designed to celebrate all that is good in Public Education around Western New York. We will be featuring programs and innovative ideas that inspire and influence our students, faculty, staff and community in new and exciting ways.
Achieving Joy and Mastery in Public Schools
Leading Through the Lens of Innovation with Superintendent Kirk Koennecke
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In this episode I interviewed Kirk Koennecke, the Superintendent of the EANES Innovative School District. Kirk is a veteran educational leader with 20 years of experience in administration and 30 years of service to students. Kirk is a standing member of AASA, NASS Executive Board, NCERT, NSR, BASA Communications Committee, AUSA Trustee, 1N5 Trustee, HQ Leaders LLC Board. Kirk loves to podcast, create blogs and promote the excellent work of his teachers and students on social media.
He has presented at the local, state, and national levels, and has been published in several educational journals and books.
Find us on Twitter @NiagaraErie
Or visit our website E-NSSA.org
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Eerie Niagara School Superintendents Association's podcast, achieving joy and mastery in public schools. I am your host, Brian Graham, superintendent of the Grand Island Central School District. We are really excited that you're listening today. This podcast is designed to celebrate all that is good in public education around Western New York. We will be featuring programs and innovative ideas that inspire and influence our students, faculty, staff, and community in new and exciting ways. So, everybody, let's get started. Today in the podcast, we have Kirk Kenecki, the superintendent of the Eanes Innovative School District located in Austin, Texas, everybody. Austin, Texas. Kirk is a veteran educational leader with 20 years of experience in administration and 30 years of service with students. Prior to his appointment as superintendent of EANS, Kirk led the Indian Hills School District in Cincinnati, Ohio for seven years. He also served as superintendent, oh, I love this part, of the Graham Local Schools from 2016 to 2019. And Kirk, I am just so glad that my school district, named after me, was a great landing spot for you, the Graham Local Schools. Where, where, where was that? Where was that work?
SPEAKER_01Graham Local Schools is about 35 minutes west of Columbus, Ohio, in Champaign County, Ohio. It's the third largest district by geography in Ohio. Very large bus fleet, as you can imagine, and one of the most prolific wrestling programs in the history of the state of Ohio. I love it. 26 years in a row, Division II state champs.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Wow. Well, I'm gonna have to visit that place someday. It just sounds like a good place. So for our friends listening today, Kirk has also worked as a head principal in many districts. In addition to his vast experience as a leader in education, he's been a featured presenter nationally and has published numerous articles within various educational publications. He's been honored as the 2020 2024 national superintendent of the year through the National Association of School Superintendents. Kirk is, of course, a standing member of AASA. He's an ex on the executive board with NAS and so many other credentials, so many other committees, so many other associations. It's really amazing all of the work that you do to support education across the United States. I follow you on LinkedIn and you're very active and in the way that you uh share good news about the work that your faculty and staff are engaged with. And I think you've been recognized nationally for that as well. So you've presented at local, state, and national levels. You've actually published a chapter in the book that I helped put together. Uh so I appreciate you for that. And Kirk, I just want to welcome you to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. That's too kind, way too much about Kirk. And uh we've, you know, I'm just very fortunate to work with great families and great teachers that create a lot of great learning experiences. And it's important to make sure we celebrate that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think for our listeners today, we're gonna be talking a little bit about innovation, right? And how innovation is a central theme in the work that you've been doing, whether it is integrating new technologies or how you're using AI in the work of your leadership and uh the work of teaching and learning. But as you know, this is the Achieving Joy and Mastery in Public Schools podcast. And I'm just curious what's bringing you joy right now as a superintendent?
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you, as the new superintendent at EANS ISD, I'm being reminded all the time as I meet new students and new families to me and amazing staff members, just how the spark of curiosity looks different in different places. And so when we talk about innovation, what brings me joy is you know, sometimes innovation happens with uh paper and pencil, and sometimes it happens with technology, and sometimes it happens with teamwork. And I'm seeing innovation and right up front here at Ean's in such an impressive culture built over the decades where people collaborate on some really unique things, like an incubator program at Westlake High School, which I think is second to none across the nation in what they've been doing for years before people were even talking about it in other high schools. Such an impressive team that has put this together. And then we talk about scaling it for all, right? And and that's innovation and that brings me joy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that. And it just seems like a perfect fit for you to be in a school that seems to embrace and embody the culture of innovation. So maybe for our listeners, tell us about your school district. I understand it's at Austin, Texas, maybe 7,000-ish kids, but give us uh the brief overview.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Eanes is a unique environment. It's kind of a landlocked district southwest of Austin, a suburb, and uh, about 7,700 students and about uh 4,500 unique families, many of whom are multi-generational families now, which is a great opportunity for us when we talk about celebrating and recognizing partners who are alumni parents and grandparents, which is a real strength of this school community. It's also maintained a very high expectations because of that. And then you've had this mix that happened from the late 90s on as the ed tech boom started to happen, and many, many companies were bringing their home offices to the Austin area. Oh, really? So, as you can imagine, 15 of the top ed tech country companies in the world have their home offices here in Austin, and many of those families and leaders live in and around our district. And so there's been this amazing mix of families and students who come together with our staff here, and I think it's created a really high expectation, high-performance environment that usually is doing innovative work.
SPEAKER_00So, with that said, maybe share with our listeners your backstory, right? What inspired or influenced you to pursue a career in education?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think the spark of curiosity I had as a learner was fed by amazing mentors and teachers, you know, all the way back to kindergarten and and you know, my my elementary school back in Ohio, I had people who paid attention to me other than my parents. Right. My parents were immigrants, and I was a first-generation American who was going to school because my parents told me those people will help you, and those teachers helped me. And so, you know, they gave me opportunities, and opportunities that public education afforded me brought me here today. I mean, I can't believe it. But when I look back, I know that that happened because of amazing educators who spent time so that I felt seen and heard over time. And I think it's my mission to give that back to children over time for their futures. And so that's why I'm here. Yeah, that's a great story. And just a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00So, what high school did you attend?
SPEAKER_01I attended Theodore Roosevelt High School in Kent, Ohio. Really a proud Reef Rider graduate. And as you can imagine, we learned a lot about Teddy Roosevelt. That's right. And so we learned a lot about leadership and became a social studies teacher, oddly enough. Nice. I was gonna ask you that. You know, had a lot of people who really instilled a lot of those kinds of ideas, looking back at lessons we learned from history and the leaders in our country. And and Teddy Roosevelt, of course, was one of them, right? It's not the critic who counts. I could tell you that that quote, the man in the arena, over and over and over again, right? So that's great. So my son, I have four kids.
SPEAKER_00My youngest son is at Akron. I understand that Akron and Kent, even though they're neighbors, compete and are rivals, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Kent State and Akron are a rivalry act for sure. And growing up in Kent and Akron, right, we spent a lot of time in those areas. Yeah. Uh people who are from the area know a lot about Swensons and the drive-throughs in the area there. That's right.
SPEAKER_00All right. So you you left high school, studied social studies, and then where was your first teaching gig?
SPEAKER_01Well, I attended the Ohio State University, and then I actually came back. And after I finished a short stint playing and coaching some ice hockey, I came back to Kent, and my first teaching job was at my high school, my alma mater. Wow. And I taught social studies there for nine years and coached and learned a lot from people who were former teachers that then became colleagues and had some amazing mentors.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I love that you were coaching and teaching, and there's so much leadership embedded in both aspects, right? In the classroom with a team, and I'm sure that has helped to guide you. And it sounds like you really do pay attribution to the people who have guided you in the past and saw something in you and elevated your voice, elevated your agency. When when did this passion of being innovative, you know, begin? Was it in your classroom days? Maybe, you know, where is that passion come from? And I understand too, didn't you do something unique with so a social studies unit?
SPEAKER_01Or you did you create something, I think, that that others are using that maybe ties in instructional technology and kind of yeah, a long time ago, if you remember those big old TV units that used to move around and get a grant, and someone said to me one day, Would you like to have a distance learning uh program in your classroom? And I said, Well, yes. I said, and if we can talk through a television, that would be like the Starship Enterprise. Let's do it. And more important than that, I wanted my students to sit at tables in the round in my classroom instead of desks so that they could actually have dialogue with one another and partner with one another easier. And so I actually selfishly took the distance learning equipment so that I could get the round tables in my classroom. Yeah, clever. Get rid of desks and chairs. And so I don't know if that was innovative, except that the methods behind what I was doing were new. And I can remember an assistant superintendent constantly visiting my classroom after that to look for efficacy. And I learned a lot then because I also realized I had a responsibility that if we were going to do things different, they needed to bring value to students and be relevant. And so I don't know if that's innovative, but it worked. And then I tried to keep those things in mind whenever I had a chance to have an opportunity or or try something that I thought could impact kids.
SPEAKER_00Moving into school leadership, whether as a principal or as a superintendent, how has instructional technology or innovation been part of your DNA and and part of your leadership, exposing children and teachers to new ideas?
SPEAKER_01To me, it's always about accessibility and belonging. And so as a teacher, right, and a young adult, I became more aware of the strengths of others around me, including my students, and then also the challenges that some of my students had. And some of it was resources. Some of it had nothing to do with ability at times. And so I'll give you an early example. Somebody was going to throw away a bunch of national geographics from our library. That's a crime. And I thought, well, I can use those in my classroom, right? And I can make something happen with them for students who have never been able to look at a national geographic before based on their socioeconomic background, what their parents and their interests were. So something as simple as that. And then I learned over time, right, that as different learners have different needs, I needed to figure out what differentiation meant. And to me, it was providing access through tools. Okay. I love that. And the technology piece became huge to me at that point. As you can imagine in the 90s and early 2000s, all of this world wide web and the internet and smartphones were exploding. And to me, that was a playground.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. And and then integrating that and getting kids hooked or excited about content, I'm sure, is a big part of that experience. So, what are you seeing now, right? You've been a superintendent, you're currently a superintendent. Let's maybe just look at it through the lens of a superintendent for a while. How are some of these tools supporting your work and leadership and maybe helping perhaps help us be a little bit more efficient, maximize our our own potential as leaders, maybe share some AI tools you're using now and some things that you're excited about?
SPEAKER_01Excuse me. First and foremost, there are so many apps and tools available now and so many AI-enabled tools all of a sudden that I think talking to colleagues like you and finding out what works for you in your environment is what matters most. And so I've spent a lot of time with my teams over the last two to three years studying things and deciding on what can help us. And maybe you call it low-hanging fruit, something as simple as organizing our email. You know, what do we use to do that? And so we put together an academy of people that were interested at my former district in Cincinnati, Ohio, Indian Hill, and the technology director there, I give them a lot of credit because we experimented with things. And so he would say, look, you can choose Grok or you can choose Claude or you could choose ChatGPT or whatever that is, you can choose it. But now we're going to practice and learn to actually use it with efficacy because just like the apps on your smartphone, sometimes we spend a few minutes learning something at the surface level, and then we never go deeper with it. And we don't actually get to see the true impact and power it could have for students or others beyond just our own daily lives. So I've been fascinated thinking about what should leaders do to make sure in an AI world that we develop and train and give people space to learn. Because the the biggest thing about all this is right, this isn't like putting a microwave in your kitchen. Like this is the house. We we need people to feel safe in their home. We need people to be able to learn in a safe space and take time to do that so that they don't feel overwhelmed, really, the rest of their lives. And for children, then that becomes really huge to curate that the right way with different tools.
SPEAKER_00I loved the the microwave quote. I think you wrote that. Did you read it? I think it was in the chapter. I love that. I love it. You so you you're a deep thinker on leadership and and and the connection of leadership to uh obviously pedagogy and working in classrooms. And I'm just wondering about culture, right? I think innovation may be less about devices and more about uh building a culture of innovation. I mean, what are your what are your thoughts about that? And how as the superintendent can you influence that type of culture in in a school district?
SPEAKER_01I mean, the way you just framed it is so important, right? I I don't want to talk with parents about screen time being good or bad. I want to talk about a culture of learning where we know that we make decisions to use devices for impact when it matters, because that's the pedagogy and delivery for some learning that's powerful. That's a different conversation than reading a book or an article that says this generation spends too much time with a phone in their hand. You know, that to me, there's a lot of generational bias. There's a lot of bias in general when we talk about learning culture. So to your point, just framing it as culture is, I think, a great place to start.
SPEAKER_00When you walk around and you get excited about what you see in classrooms, you know, tell me a little bit about that. I mean, you gave me a little sneak peek when you were teaching, how important it was for you. Yeah, I think I'd like to participate in distance learning, but it was really another opportunity to change up that classroom, change up the style, have kids be more engaged and show their agency with each other. What are you seeing now and as you walk around and what excites you about uh classroom instruction and what's happening in that innovative school district of yours?
SPEAKER_01I think some of our teachers are really learning this idea of facilitation and coaching for performance and not having to own the curriculum and content and deliver it 100% of it, but help students analyze and synthesize from multiple sources of learning and then also learning to build assistance through technology like AI-enabled bots and really take that and make it powerful as a learning experience, not just a way to get work done. And so the the great coach and facilitators that we have, like in this incubator program, they're teaching the students design thinking. They're not right, they're not teaching them just AI and how to use a tool like chat. They're teaching them design thinking principles, and then they're showing them when to use the technology to insert into a process to learn about change and problem solving. And that is amazing because then we can find solutions for impact on these problems that people want to bring. And and and I I have a colleague that calls it problem finding, becomes like problem finding for good. And then think about the process, you know, what you're gonna use to get the solutions. And then you can see the power that these students and teachers have together to use a tool like AI in a timely manner when they're ready. But they're they're going through an entire learning process, which is really powerful and what we want out of every employee or citizen in the future.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, boy, that is it is powerful. And I'm curious if you have any suggestions for our listeners. Many of our listeners are educators, superintendents, administrators, and so forth, parents too. When you talk about the incubator, when you talk about design thinking principles, what type of professional development is available for leaders, for classroom leaders to engage more with these principles? I'll just layer in here in New York State, the state is moving in a direction where children will have multiple pathways to graduation. One of them would be uh exhibiting the portrait of a graduate skills and dispositions through maybe authentic learning, project-based learning, capstone projects. But they'll but there'll also be a path where they can take those traditional summative state assessments as well. So as as we here in New York State begin to prepare for the portrait of a new graduate and and maybe more authentic learning experiences that are that are summative of learning in general, I'm curious as to this, this, the concept of design thinking principles and where we here in New York State can tap into that thinking and support our kids that way.
SPEAKER_01Great question. I think in states like Texas, New York, Ohio, and California, others, the era of badges, certifications, and credentials are here to stay. Whether you call it a learning burst or a module or a course, whatever that is, that credentialing of getting a learning experience that then you can show that you learned and can apply, that is kind of the way of the world in terms of learning. And so it's forcing school systems, both public and competitors, to look at how we deliver learning in chunks. And that can be really relevant when you're talking about innovation and using technology or employability skills across all industries. And it doesn't matter to me whether you're learning about problem solving through a Stanford Dschool, you know, certificate or you're doing Lean Six Sigma Greenbelt, whatever those industry and recognized standards are for learning. They could be language arts standards. The fact that you can learn them and maybe get away from what we call traditional seat time in in public schools and education and focus on outcome-based learning, that's the trend in education. And it's led, as you know, to lots of competition for public schools. And I think at EANS, we have to do that better than everybody else. And I think higher ed has gone through that same evolution over the over the years, and some people are adapting faster than others.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. In the book that you helped or that you contributed, you wrote, You can ride the waves of change, try to swim through them or be washed away by them. Change is inevitable, of course, but you know, maybe just add, you know, share with our listeners a little bit more about that thinking, right? You know, things are changing. They're changing here in New York State, I'm sure in Texas. You're leading a school that's focused on innovation, you're you're talking about design thinking principles and problem solving. Tell me about that quote in the book and and what are your thoughts about change in general and how to help the adults in a system and an organization be adaptable and flexible and embracing change like this?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think it's like structured play. The first time you attempt something, there can be some fear, some nervousness, some anxiety relationship. Right, because everybody likes to feel comfort. And when you jump into the ocean for the first time with a surfboard or you want to float on the water, right, you have to, you have to behaviorally take a risk. And then you learn that you can float and you can ride a little bit. And the people who stand on the shoreline and look at the wave and let that fear continue to keep them from making a decision. What happens is that that grows and it starts to feel overwhelming and debilitating. And then it's not just about comfort, it's about protection and survival. And learning's not supposed to be like that. Learning is supposed to have some structured play to it, some attempts, a practice. So that's what I think we need to do when it comes to attitude to learn anything. And I think most educators get that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do too. Talk to talk to us, you know, as we wind things down, maybe just some tools that you enjoy using to support your daily work or your work in leadership. You know, I would imagine you're using Chat GPT and maybe some other tools, but you know, just give us a little insight, a little window into Kirk's AI journey.
SPEAKER_01Well, the newest version of ChatGPT, as you know, does some things that earlier versions didn't. And what I'm playing with is transcribing and turning language into images and templates and having my own questions and summaries analyzed in new ways every day with this tool. And then I'm trying to get our team to use the tools in a way that challenges the team, not just because we uploaded and spit a bunch of things into a system to get some answers, but that we challenge the results and that we think about truly synthesizing results for new learning and maybe some new opportunities that come out of the things that were we find there to be challenges. It's been really fascinating. And then what you learn, right, is that if you take the time to do it on the front end, the change that happens is you may save time on the other end, not because you don't want to learn, but because now you can focus on new learning and other things. And so the efficiency that comes from going through that process with a tool. And when you can create bots to help you do the process work, doesn't mean we're going to stop thinking. It might mean we get to think about other things along the way in a different chain. And that is fascinating to me. So I know that that's a long-winded answer for one tool.
SPEAKER_00Not at all. So are you are you have you explored making your own GPT within the ChatGPT interface?
SPEAKER_01Yes. And and again, I'm sure you're much further along than I am with this. But to me, if I had another five hours a day, yeah, right, I feel like I could change the world. Right. So then the the key is how much time am I willing to give to learn? And I have to structure that into my schedule because it is so powerful. Yeah. And I want to continue to learn. So I have to make that time. But what do I realize is I make that time up in other ways when I do use it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a hundred percent. And I I love that concept. And for our listeners, in your Chat GPT interface, there's a place where you can create your own general purpose uh transformer or whatever it's called, and and teach it a skill. And then that skill will always remember the instructions you've given it and give you an output that's really pretty good. Most recently I put the New York State power superstandards for ELA and grades three, four, and five, and created a GPT skill that when I just click a button, it generates a story based on the New York State standard that children are, you know, you're trying to get children to show that they have learned. And not only will it create a story, it'll create an I can statement for the children, and then I, you know, give the teacher a multiple choice question with some answers and then uh indicate what is the correct answer. And just with one click of a button, I can click a story for a third grader, a fourth grader, or a fifth grader. And I just it's just amazing, honestly. It's just that one little skill in ChatGPT will always be there and ready to perform and give uh really good output for educators. So I've I've been dabbling a lot with teaching different AI interfaces certain skills that the output is truly remarkable. All right. So as we wind things down, Kirk, anything else you wanted to share about your journey and the AI leadership matrix, maybe, or anything that you're thinking about that is going to continue to support innovative work within public schools?
SPEAKER_01I think the AI leadership matrix that I wrote about and that's in your book and that we talk about with our teams is that, you know, more than ever, this type of new era of technology integration gives us a chance to double down on the teaching of ethics and morals and leadership skills. Governance is gonna be so important and how we behave and how we behave around others with these awesome tools at our disposal to reshape the world for good, means we've got to have leaders and we've got to have people thinking about the ethical and moral implications of technology. And so I think that's a huge opportunity where teachers and leaders in public schools can lead the way. They're more valuable than ever. And I hope that young educators, people coming into the pipeline and people who are starting their careers are understanding that their value just went up. And I don't know if that's a message they always hear from society, but but it's the truth. Their value just went up. And so it could be a great career and a lot of fun. And, you know, you can lead uh lead the way just by making sure we teach really good governance and and leadership skills.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, boy, that's great. And a lot of that I think is gonna need to come too from us as superintendents and educational leaders, but I think a lot about our librarians and where they are on their journey and and can they help us, right? Help kids, you know, begin to process what you just said, how important that governance is and ethical and responsible use of AI. And I could see, I could see that library media specialist being, you know, a key person in that journey. So well, listen, I really appreciate you spending the time with me. And it's really great to follow you. I know people can follow you on LinkedIn and glean a lot of great ideas from the work that you're doing. And are you are you gonna be presenting anywhere in the future or maybe next year?
SPEAKER_01Maybe this summer at the Jason National Conference in Lansdowne, Virginia, we'll be talking about AI integration and certifications, and that'll be uh something to look forward to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time. Appreciate your time. Thank you. All right. Well, I hope you enjoyed listening to Kirk and talking about artificial intelligence and leadership in public education. If you appreciate and love achieving joy and mastery in public schools, don't forget you can follow or subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Odyssey, and so many more of your favorite podcast platforms. Until next time, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for joining us today as we explore the concept of achieving joy and mastery in public schools. We will be interviewing school districts in Erie and Niagara counties on a regular basis as we look to shine a spotlight on all of the amazing programs and practices essential for achieving joy and mastery with our students, faculty, staff, and community. This podcast is sponsored by the Erie Niagara School Superintendents Association, and we hope you consider subscribing.
