Ovarian Cysts

Over their life-time many women will experience ovarian cysts. For some it's a barely noticeable transient discomfort. For others it presents as abdominal and/or back pain, changes to urination and bowel problems. Our patient had a very large cyst that required surgery which she was desperate to avoid. How did Naturopath Maria Harpas help the patient to reduce the cyst and avoid surgical intervention?

Transcript

Daniel Baden: 0:00

Today we'll be talking about ovarian cysts. Cysts affects about 20% of women at any time of their life. And it changes from study to study country to country, but that's an average globally says present with all sorts of symptoms from pelvic pain, low back pain, bloating, nausea, changes in urination or sore. And because it's so common, I think this will be a very popular topic

Maria Harpas: 1:22

Hi, Daniel. Thank you

Daniel Baden: 1:25

Maria your patient presented with fatigue and a fairly large cyst five centimeters. How was she when she came to see you?

Maria Harpas: 1:34

Yes. So when she presented Yes, she was fatigued. And she had had an iron infusion the month before, but she was still fatigued, she felt a bit better, but quite severe fatigue. Still, she was getting sick quite a lot. So she seemed to get everything. She had a 22 month old child. So she was getting sick a lot. She was dealing and had always dealt with a bit of depression. And that

Daniel Baden: 2:08

And how old was she Maria?

Maria Harpas: 2:10

He was 36. She was also finding that her sleep wasn't fantastic. She had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, as well.

Daniel Baden: 2:21

So there's some relationship between fibromyalgia and PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome. Do you think there's also or do you know, there's also a relationship between fibromyalgia and singular variances?

Maria Harpas: 2:36

Yeah, I'm not sure, actually, whether there is a correlation I haven't or whether that's a separate factor. But, you know, a fight. I find really, when people are presenting with things, it's sometimes initially difficult to know, how much is related to one thing, and how much is separate sort of issues.

Daniel Baden: 3:00

I guess, when you're presenting with underlying conditions, whether they be hormonal or inflammatory, you can get a whole lot of different symptoms popping up in the same patient.

Maria Harpas: 3:08

That's right. So it was, especially with this patient, it was good to sort of see that once we had data treating that actually her pain had improved, as well as systemic sort of pain. So that was fantastic. I didn't know whether that would happen or not, I guess, because of that reason of not knowing what the real cause of of the pain was. And unfortunately with Fibro, you just don't

Daniel Baden: 3:34

No, it's complicated. Yeah. So Maria, when someone comes in to see you, and they've got a reasonably good sized cyst five centimeters in her case, yeah, for a lot of women, you know, cysts come and go. And how do you think about the cyst in terms of how much you need to do? Or whether you think it will just go do you have some sort of defining guideline?

Maria Harpas: 3:58

Yes. So with this particular patient, she came in, specifically to avoid having an operation. So her main criteria was, she was a single mother. She had a 22 month old child, she was absolutely beside herself thinking about the time to go into hospital, the recovery from that when she was already fatigued, depressed, in pain. So she had a very specific, you know, reason for coming

Daniel Baden: 4:51

what does that mean to you?

Maria Harpas: 4:54

Well she was obese. That was good in terms of like, I thought, well, we've got Got something really easy to work with here, we can reduce her BMI, which will obviously improve any insulin resistance that we're dealing with, it will reduce any inflammation that we're dealing with. And so that was my, that was easy for me to go. Right. That's, that's what we're going to focus on.

Daniel Baden: 6:09

Do you find that inadequate protein is common amongst vegetarian patients?

Maria Harpas: 6:15

And of course, your urea levels are linearly related to protein consumption. what are your preferred sources of vegetarian protein?

Unknown: 6:15

Yeah, as a generalization mostly. So it's usually you know, we're checking not only you know, what they're eating, but also looking at different symptoms and things and looking at urea levels. So in a biochemistry looking to see what the urea levels and I often do find that they're sitting quite low. So obviously, vegetarian, then we get them doing eggs more often if they're not, because a lot of the times they're not even having those sources very often, either. I get them to, obviously, do beans and legumes and things more often. So to do less of just vegetables, where they often will do that or refined carbohydrates like just pasture or what rice so to start adding seeds and nuts

Daniel Baden: 7:31

Can I ask why you don't love it?

Unknown: 7:32

i dont think soy is great in the doses that they need to be eating it in as a source of protein. And because of the effects on hormones,

Daniel Baden: 7:43

okay. Sorry, I keep interrupting you but this is interesting. So go on.

Maria Harpas: 7:50

Um, you know, thinking it through, because it's a little while ago this case, yeah. So as we started working on those things, and I also, for her, she, she did have some insufficiencies in nutrients and things. So looking back, I put her on B 12, a multi B supplement, as well as vitamin D. So all of these were a bit low for her. And so that all started to help her energy levels as

Daniel Baden: 8:57

five months made you know how much weight she had lost in terms of kilos.

Maria Harpas: 9:02

Yeah, so she started at eight kilos, and we got her to 77 kilos. Wow, that's yeah, so she did really well. Yeah, she was very motivated, because she really, really wanted to avoid the surgery. So the motivation was there. So that was great. And so then she went to have another well, she was booked it so the surgery date was still booked, and we asked because the pain had gone. I

Daniel Baden: 9:48

Was it still visible in any way?

Maria Harpas: 9:50

I think it was still visible, but it was to the level where the GP said you do not need to go in for surgery. So the surgery event sold out Right. That's a win. Oh, that was such a great win. So they were quite happy. I mean, it was shrunk so much. They didn't even ask for any follow ups unless she started to get pain again.

Daniel Baden: 10:12

Right? Just for clarity. How long did it take from the first visit to the ultrasound?

Unknown: 10:19

Yes. So it was five months.

Daniel Baden: 10:23

Okay. That's pretty good.

Maria Harpas: 10:24

Yeah, it was really good. It was such a great wind she was, she was so so happy. And we really, everything improved, in terms of her energy levels were better, her pain was better. She also had some sinus issues as well. So that had improved somewhat to her sleep was the only thing that wasn't still completely improved. And, you know, I think that was more around having a 22 month

Daniel Baden: 11:06

What about the depressive symptoms, had they changed at all.

Maria Harpas: 11:09

They had improved, yes, she's still feel felt like because she'd been dealing with depression all her life. So she still felt like she's got that tendency, but Yes, much better. And like most people, when we treat, when fatigue improves, pain improves, mood often improves. So yeah, improvement there with that, so that was really good. And she just felt that also, she really could

Daniel Baden: 11:59

Is that something you feel you can help with with a patient like setting them up with food ideas, and in strategies into having the right foods around

Unknown: 12:11

I mean, there's so much involved, I think, Daniel with that, of course, and the 15 years that I've sort of been working, you have to really understand what's going on in someone's life. Because what are the influences that that are there? You know, what are their commitments in terms of other things that they have to do? And I think the hardest is single parents, of course, they're

Daniel Baden: 13:26

I guess that's the thing about being a practitioner, every patient is different. So you, it's very difficult to have one standard approach everyone, isn't it? You've got to? Yeah, absolutely. Tell him tell him make it all?

Maria Harpas: 13:37

Well, yeah. And I look, I think some of my strategies for people as well as to try to get them to really try to open up their repertoire of food, and how they can quickly put things together. Because if they don't make that repertoire as big as possible, they keep reaching for what they know. Right? And just listening to ideas and things people don't think about doing things that

Daniel Baden: 14:16

habits,

Maria Harpas: 14:17

habits, yes, habits.

Daniel Baden: 14:19

What about this lady's fibromyalgia? Where was that at?

Maria Harpas: 14:23

Well, that was improved. So when we had that conversation about that the ultrasound had come back, everything was improved. She actually said she had no body pain.

Daniel Baden: 14:34

That's amazing, because for the listeners, the defining feature about Fibromyalgia is just generalized pain throughout the body.

Maria Harpas: 14:43

Yeah. So you know that and that presentation of where the pain as we know as practitioners, you can have pain that is easy to resolve, and then pain that is not easy to resolve. And so it's lovely that for her, it was just part of the whole picture of inflammation, insulin resistance, all of all of these things. Combined, it might have been food intolerances as well. That was

Daniel Baden: 15:24

So we've talked a bit about diet. What about supplements? Did you prescribe anything? Or do you normally for these sorts of cases,

Unknown: 15:32

don't reach immediately for the cucurmin, the Turmeric, and all of that sort of thing. I like to initially change the diet so I can see what that does, and how much they improve first with that, and people really like that when we when we sort of start first by making dietary changes. And then I go, Okay, this is what we were left with, because if it is diet tree, that changes quite

Daniel Baden: 16:37

Curcuma is tumeric. Do you get patients sometimes to just add Tumeric to their diet?

Maria Harpas: 16:44

Yes. Sometimes, especially if I think the inflammation is in the gut. I get them to do a teaspoon of Tumeric a couple of times a day, like as a as a drink, like as a hot drink. Or they add it to some other powder they might be taking. Yeah.

Daniel Baden: 17:02

Okay. And what about her general immune immunity? You mentioned that she had a lot of ongoing colds and flus and immune issues. Do you think things improved there as well?

Maria Harpas: 17:12

Yeah, they did. By the time we're halfway through, she felt she wasn't getting as sick. And I wonder whether that's related to making sure that she was taking in more protein than she was initially, we had increased vitamin D, as well. So we've done a couple of things there to help very good. And even her sinuses as well. They were absolutely terrible, initially, and they improved.

Daniel Baden: 17:47

So when was the last time you saw the patient? How long after the fantastic ultrasound result?

Maria Harpas: 17:52

Yeah, I think we did a follow up a couple of months after and she was still maintaining quite well, at that point. No pain, still no systemic pain, so Fibro pain and no cyst pain, none of that. Her sinuses were still good. She was down 12 kilos. That's great. Yeah, so she'd been maintaining things. She sort of mentioned that she didn't really have a choice. She had to keep eating

Daniel Baden: 18:32

Yeah. What? Do you think the patient understood the relationship between food and disease before seeing you? And do you think that perception changed after seeing you? And do you think she felt empowered, knowing that she could actually control what she was doing?

Maria Harpas: 18:51

So she certainly did not understand the correlation between food and what was going on at all beforehand. But by the end of it, yes, she did feel empowered. She felt really good that she could do maintain these things. She did feel a bit nervous about being able to keep doing things that she felt good that she knew what to do. There were two follow ups after and that was that thing of

Daniel Baden: 19:31

Have you seen many ladies with ovarian cysts? I have seen women with ovarian cysts but not where most of it is. They're being told just that they'll be checked later on to see if if they're still there or if there's any problem with them. So not with this urgency With dietary change and supplementation and other lifestyle factors. Do you find that you get fairly consistent similar results? It's with ovarian cysts.

Maria Harpas: 20:01

Yeah, well, I guess, Daniel, we don't I don't get they don't do follow up ultrasounds enough for me to, to know. But we do see the same thing that improvement in their overall health. So when we start to improve things like inflammation, insulin resistance, and the most consistent thing is to do it through diet. 100%, that's the biggest factor, we see all of these symptoms start to

Daniel Baden: 20:46

And is cutting back on sugar enough to improve insulin resistance? Or do you find that you have to supplement it the same at the same time?

Maria Harpas: 20:56

To tell you the truth, I find that if they cut back on the sugar, you know, the refined carbohydrates, the alcohol, and their BMI starts to come down, and then can start adding a bit of exercise and getting them you know, once we get them doing that, they don't necessarily have to supplement with anything, specifically for the insulin resistance. Obviously, it depends on the stage,

Daniel Baden: 21:45

depends how well they work the rest of their diet around that as well. And 100%.

Maria Harpas: 21:50

But I always say that the diet, and then the exercise, of course, and the sleep, we don't want them having poor sleep quality, because that makes everything affects everything because well. They're the key. They're the the foundational things, just throwing supplements at them without them doing those changes and just not going to work.

Daniel Baden: 22:13

Yep, completely agree. So Maria, thank you. If someone's presenting with lower abdominal pain, lower back pain, do you think they should come and see the naturopath?

Maria Harpas: 22:25

Absolutely, because of lower back pain, abdominal pain, how often is that a result of diet, it can be really a result of diet, and no one thinks of that. Everyone goes straight to the physio straight to the Cairo and the amount of times that we resolve that pain, they can't believe that it's correlated. And the same disbelief happens with migraines and headaches, where we change

Daniel Baden: 23:35

Absolutely. Maria help people get in touch with you.

Maria Harpas: 23:38

They can book through my reception on eight, double three, triple to seven one. Or if they've got any questions, I'm happy for them to email me at Maria at natural health medicine.com.au.

Daniel Baden: 23:52

And that's a 084 Australian, and it's a plus 618 If you're international, and you have a website.

Maria Harpas: 24:01

Yes. So that's natural health. medicine.com.au.

Daniel Baden: 24:05

Okay, lovely. Thank you so much for your time.

Maria Harpas: 24:08

No problem. Thank you. I hope that's been helpful.

Daniel Baden: 24:11

Look, it's very helpful because someone will be listening that has experience with their variances themselves, or they have a daughter or a sister or somebody out there a friend. And these sorts of things really help people understand their options. And that's what it's all about. And I think also any growth in the body can really be helped by the same strategy, Lovely, thank you so much, and speak to you next time.

Unknown: 24:37

Thank you. Thanks, Daniel.