THE ONES WHO DARED
THE ONES WHO DARED PODCAST Elevating stories of courage. You can listen to some of the most interesting stories of courage, powerful life lessons, and aha moments. Featuring interviews with leaders, pioneers and people who have done hard things. I hope these stories help pave the path for you to live out your courageous life.
THE ONES WHO DARED
How to Show Up for the Sober Life You Want and Rewrite Your Story | Chris Janssen
Chris Janssen, MA, BCC, is the author of "Grace Yourself" and a performance and mindset coach. With over 25 years of experience, she has guided athletes, entrepreneurs, and creatives in achieving their goals. Trained with Tony Robbins, Chris helps high-achieving perfectionists manage performance pressure and overcome self-sabotage through her Living All In methods.
She emphasizes the importance of reframing personal narratives, particularly in addiction recovery, and highlights the roles of self-compassion and community support. Key topics include:
- The impact of old narratives on self-identity
- The need for community support
- Differences between shame and guilt in recovery
- Strategies for reframing life narratives
- The journey to self-acceptance and worthiness
https://www.chrisjanssencoaching.com/
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
It's important to know, though and this is what, as a coach, I work with clients on is that just because now we have a light bulb moment like that, we also have years of the old narrative. We've made that old narrative a pattern in our brain ourself. I have clients write it down. What is the new story you are going to attach to the fact in your life Like the fact in my life is I was addicted to alcohol. The story was I'm a monster because of that. The story shifted to I'm deserving of recovery and community because of that.
Speaker 2:Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast, where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, becca, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here, chris Jansen, welcome to the Ones who Dare podcast. It's an honor to have you on today.
Speaker 1:It's an honor to be on Speca. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm really excited to dig into your book your latest book called Grace Yourself how to Show Up for the Sober Life you Want and you are a leading results coach and performance best-selling award-winning author, and I love that. You are not only a board-certified coach, but you also have a master's degree in counseling psychology over 25 years of experience and you help people achieve their goals, navigate through some of their pressure of performance, overcoming self-sabotage and really rewrite our narratives, because a lot of us are telling ourselves stories that are maybe not true and if we reframe that, then we'll be able to live our life in a much better way. So I'm really excited to have you on here and if you could just tell me a little bit about how did you get into being a life coach or high achieving performance coach?
Speaker 1:Well, I got my master's in counseling psychology right after college, so that was a while ago and at the time we didn't have coaching. You know, it's like a basketball coach, a baseball coach we didn't have life coaches. And so when that came on the scene later in my life, my kids were I already had kids by that time and was being a mom and I got really excited and went back to school and got my coaching certification and my board certified coach. And because really coaching is about what works, not what hasn't worked in the past, and I, just having come from the therapy and counseling world, I think we have a great need for it. I love it. I refer clients to therapists often.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to work with people from where they're at now and how to move forward from where we're at. So that's why coaching was exciting for me at that season of my life. And then I wrote a book for my clients called Living All In. That book came out in 2022. And I just wanted all my favorite coaching tools written down for clients. It's been a super great tool to help with working with clients. And then I got the writing bug and wanted to write another one. So I have another one that actually launches the date of this pod, like of this recording. February 18th is launch day, so I'm really excited about that and that's great.
Speaker 2:Congratulations on that that is an exciting day. We're launch day, thank you, and this book. You use yourself as an example in your journey of sobriety and what I love about your story is that, um, essentially you were the person that wasn't what we may think of an alcoholic right. I think some of us have this perception, and you also said that was your perception too is like someone who struggles with addiction to alcohol is someone who is, you know, walking around with a paper bag. They're under the bridge. It's like a whole extreme version.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile you were a mom of three kids, just really a perfectionism. Your life looked perfect from the outside and even when you would brought up your concern yourself with your addiction, you would have people who would minimize that and say, well, you don't really have a problem, it's not, you know, maybe you should just get coaching, or you should do this and that, and so it's interesting, because our society is so surrounded by alcohol. Our movies, everything. There's a celebration portion you toast to alcohol. There is, it's just part of our culture, so much so that a lot of us who struggle can go unnoticed, and even when we are expressing like, hey, I think maybe I have a problem, it's like no, you're not that bad, you're not out there doing this and that You're not getting a DUI You're not harming people. So could you just kind of go into your experience with that, and how did you come to struggle with it before you discovered it was a problem?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so. Thanks for bringing that up, because that's so important for listeners to know that. There's not a formula. I don't know if it's still out there, but we used to have this take these 20 questions and they tell if you're alcoholic or not. That's not, don't do that Like that's we don't. There's not a one size fits all, and so if people are feeling like and it doesn't have to be alcohol if there's something in their life that's a distraction, ahold, that's keeping them from getting where they want to go, that's worth questioning. If that's keeping them stuck and they're not free, that's worth taking a look at. And the book Grace Yourself is full of questions to help us decide what that is. Is it a stronghold, is it not? Is it just something that's kind of annoying? And is the cost of not giving it up going to be greater of the cost of gritting it out and giving it up to move forward? So for me it's interesting, like you said, because I was like on the outside, I, my life is very it still is looks very functioning and put together. And I should say too, I felt functioning and put together.
Speaker 1:It's not like I was just. I mean, I had self-loathing, I had negative self-talk. I had this struggle, the struggle being that I couldn't drink alcohol like people around me could, and this is back in 2007 and before I got sober in 2007. So before that, culturally it was really different than it is now. We didn't have mocktails and alcohol-free drinks. People weren't being sober as a health trend. It was just if you couldn't drink alcohol like the next person, I believed something was wrong with me, that it meant I had a problem and I took that to mean I'm a bad person.
Speaker 1:I have a moral problem and I took that to mean I'm a bad person. I have a moral problem and I just it sounds silly to think that now, but I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand that it was a physical addiction. Alcohol's a, you know, an addictive, toxic substance, and some people can drink it and it doesn't ignite this obsession for more and some people cannot, and so I really looked at myself as this weak-willed person when in reality, I wasn't the problem.
Speaker 1:Alcohol was like alcohol and me don't mesh like like some other people can moderate it. I could not, and there's a lot of other people like me, and so that was really confusing to me, because I did feel high, functioning, and I knew I was a good mom, I knew I had a good marriage, I knew I was doing things well, except for this one area, and that's why it was so confusing. In that one area I thought why can I do all these other things, but I can't do this one thing? And I kind of villainized myself for it and thought I just didn't have enough willpower, you know. And so I would love for people to know that, when it comes to addiction and something that is a real stronghold on your life, that is not your fault, that is the fault of the thing. Right? It's very common to fall into an addictive snare like that, and we can't get out of it if we call ourselves wrong or if we make ourselves the bad guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in your book you write here that you had a woman who came up to you during one of your meetings and she said it's not your fault, and she said that it's like an allergy and that to you. I'd love for you to just go back in that moment of what you were thinking at that time and her coming up to you and saying that and how was that experience for you? How did that like reshape and reframe that for you at the once for your podcast? Giving back is part of our mission, which is why we proudly sponsor a Midwest Food Bank. Here's why Midwest Food Bank Pennsylvania distributes over 25 million million worth of food annually, completely free of charge, to over 200 nonprofit partners across PA, new York and New Jersey, reaching more than 330,000 people in need. Through their volunteer-driven model and innovative food rescue programs, they turn every single dollar donated into $30 worth of food. Now that's amazing. Join us in supporting this cause. To learn more or to give, go to MidwestFoodBankorg slash Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:Well, that was the moment that changed everything for me, because I had been trying on my own to quit drinking alcohol and, like you had mentioned, I you know. I asked the doctor about it, I asked friends about it, I asked a therapist about it, I asked my pastor about it and these well-meaning, intelligent people just said I didn't have a problem. But I knew I did. So. I got myself to a meeting one day when I was just really desperate, I was really as just low and depressed and just didn't understand why I couldn't kick this thing, how I could have willpower in other areas and not in this one area. So I went to a 12-step meeting and a woman in the group who knew it was my first time came up to me and said it's not your fault, it's okay, you have a condition, it's like an allergy, and you never have to have another drink again and stick around, stay with us, we'll show you how there's there's a solution to this. And I, in that moment, just all that shame and guilt flew off me, because I went from I'm a monster, because I can't quit drinking alcohol, because I'm addicted to, I'm deserving of community and recovery and sobriety, because I'm addicted. So my belief changed in an instant, and you know it's important for listeners to know too. I did come in and I was exhausted from trying on my own. So I heard you never have to have another drink again, and that was a big exhale for me. That was a relief. I was so happy to be there and partner with these people in the solution.
Speaker 1:Some people come in to a recovery group and hear I never get to have another drink again. And that's okay too. We're all coming in where we're coming in, and if you're still in that place where you're hearing I never get to have another drink again, that doesn't mean you're in the wrong spot. Keep going, and we all share our stronghold is what we could get in a community of people who have the same goal of kicking, the same stronghold as us. We're able to recover in community and it's really. That's really important. Because it's important, it was important for me to know I wasn't alone and my problem wasn't unique. Like we need to have humility. We can't make it significant oh, I have this problem right, that's just another. Yeah, you're the only one.
Speaker 2:My problem wasn't unique.
Speaker 1:We need to have humility. We can't make it significant. Oh, I have this problem right, that's just another form of pride and you're the only one struggling with it.
Speaker 2:That makes you feel so alone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So alone or maybe special even, where you form this identity or significance in this thing you have and really it's not there's millions of people out there. It's a big world, you know. There's a lot of people struggling with the same thing you are, and we live in a world where finding support groups is easier than it's ever been because we have online groups, we have the internet, and so that was really it. That's when my belief changed and for me, I didn't know anyone in nobody in my family identified as alcoholic my parents and their parents, and their parents don't drink alcohol. They grew up in a community and kind of their social culture didn't drink. So I didn't know. I didn't have anyone to say, hey, this is. I had this problem and here's what I did about it. Until I went to that group, that was the first time I'd met people who identified as having that couldn't moderate alcohol or identified as alcoholic.
Speaker 2:And also what's interesting about your story is that you didn't grow up around alcoholics and you write you know your family that's not, that was not part of their lifestyle. They didn't drink alcohol. You weren't around, so it wasn't a habit that you picked up because your dad was doing it or your grandpa or your aunt or whatever. And also you grew up in a, you know, fairly healthy family, right Kind of the average American home, where that wasn't an issue. You weren't having these kind of traumatic things that happened to you thus led you to addiction. So it's interesting, I think, to point out that it can happen to anyone and it's not doesn't make you bad, and I love that. You really touched on worthiness in your book and also on shame and guilt. How would you differentiate between shame and guilt?
Speaker 1:in a nutshell, I think of guilt as thinking I did something wrong, and shame is thinking I'm a bad person. And so guilt can be helpful if we don't use it in unhelpful ways. It can be an indicator to huh, I want you know our conscience, huh. I wonder why I feel this way, like I have that, like I'll think, oh gosh, I shouldn't have said that to that person. Right, it's just like a little tinge of guilt or whatever of my conscience leading me to do better. But I don't think I'm trash because I made a human mistake. That's shame, and there's never a place for shame. Shame is a liar, it's just never helpful, and it's also something a lot of us as humans deal with, and I want people to be liberated from it and know that it holds no authority in your life Shame.
Speaker 2:None. I love this portion that you write in chapter one and you just said shame is a liar. Regardless of how high or low you set your standards, or whether not you reach them, you are worthy and loved and whole. You're a priceless treasure, whether you're addicted or sober, guilty or innocent, sick or healthy, stalled, seeking or knowing, there is nothing you can do or think to negate your worth. And shame holds no power, right or authority in your life. That is so beautifully put. Thank you, yes, and how did you? Um, how did you overcome that shame cycle then? How did that become something that you were no longer attaching your identity to? Like I am bad, I can't do this, you know I I can accomplish things in other areas of my life, but I can't seem to to let go of this addiction. How did you got rid of that shame cycle?
Speaker 1:What started at that meeting, when that woman said that. That was really an eye opener for me. It's important to know, though and this is what, as a coach, I work with clients on is that just because now we have a light bulb moment like that, we also have years of the old narrative? We've made that old narrative a pattern in our brain, and so we must be patient with ourself. I have clients write it down.
Speaker 1:What is the new story you are going to attach to the fact in your life, Like the fact in my life is I was addicted to alcohol. The story was I'm a monster because of that. The story shifted to I'm deserving of recovery and community because of that. So that doesn't mean that I'm never going to slip back into that old monster narrative, but in order to do that, we really need to be intentional. I have people write it down not on a computer, but pen and paper. Get it into your nervous system, your physiology. Write it down. Write down the new story, Even if you don't believe it yet. Write it down as you want it to be. Declare it as truth and then recite it every day. Make a mantra out of it, practice it, use body language right. The more emotion and motion we put into whatever we want to declare and the direction we want to go, the quicker it will get into our neuroplasticity Like, the quicker our brain will change to form that new pattern.
Speaker 1:And just be patient, because it took a long time for the old narrative to be written and it will take time for the new one. It's just like a muscle at the gym. You don't go to the gym one time and have beautiful biceps. You have to go many times. You have to condition and repeat, and that's the way our brain works too. It it's like a muscle. So with narratives we've got to be intentional about the beliefs we want to have and eventually they will become second nature. I don't know the day it happened, but I do know that now I just live this narrative as second nature, that I'm worthy and whole and loved and valuable. And I know as a young woman I didn't think those things. It took work to get where I am now, but I don't really remember it was just conditioning and repeating, yeah, all the time it's like rewired that process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's beautiful and such a great reminder that it's not a one step and it's done. It's a. It's a repeating reconditioning, over and over, and I think, too, our brain is always searching for the evidence that we're looking for right, so even a renee. Bernie brown once said that if you are searching for a reason why you don't belong, you will find it. You will find it, yes, and same thing, too, like if we feel that we're unworthy or we feel like we are broken, and this is, it's like, it's like you. Oh, there it is. Oh, yep, you see that you did that. Yep, there it is, there's proof, and so I love that A. You help people to reframe some of that, and also that you've experienced that yourself in your own story of. Okay, this is how I'm reconditioning myself to believe a new story about myself that I am worthy. I'm worthy of recovery, I'm worthy of community, I'm worthy of being able to overcome this. And you've been sober now for how many years?
Speaker 1:Well, I've been sober. I got sober in 2007. So that's. But now here's the thing. So there's in this in the book. The reason the book was born is because in 2020, we I'd been sober just shy of 14 years, we were brand new empty nesters. We moved out of state for an adventure, just for fun, and I was in a new place. It was 2020.
Speaker 2:It was quarantine 2020 was a crazy year for all of us and there was.
Speaker 1:I did not process all of that the way I wished I had, and so I thought and I go into detail about this in the book but I thought you know, I've worked through a lot of stuff in my life. I'm a coach, I have these tools. I believe I did drink over some things that have now been resolved. I've evolved, some things that have now been resolved. I've evolved and I decided to invite. I'll call back into my life again. And what's hilarious about that? Now if I tell this story in my recovery meetings and we all have a good laugh together. But I want people to know I don't recommend this field trip, right? You don't?
Speaker 1:need to do what I did to learn what I learned. I wrote it in the book.
Speaker 2:So go over to the book. You're curious like, okay, can I go back into this?
Speaker 1:Let's see. Because the biggest lesson I knew this like. So two things are really important here. One I went out on a high note. I wasn't, I didn't even. I don't even call that a relapse I have trouble with that word because I mean sometimes I do, but I just think it's not like I was down in the dumps so I drank. So we need to be vigilant when we're on a mountaintop and when we're in a pit right.
Speaker 1:Addiction and alcohol or any addiction is a beast. It will come for us whether we're high or low. So I went out on a very intentional high note. And the second thing was that I knew immediately, like first sip, this was a mistake. And what I knew immediately was I have evolved. Alcohol has not, I've changed, that's true, but alcohol has not, and my reaction to it certainly has not. And it's there's a saying in recovery it's easier to stay sober than get sober, and that is so true.
Speaker 1:It was so difficult to get sober a second time. The first time it was a relief. I was looking for the solution and I found it and I just went running in arms wide open Show me the answer. You know, the second time was very hard, because what happened is all that shame that I'd worked through came back and now I had to work on. I had the opportunity to work on my pride and my ego again and my humility, because I had a lot of pride over staining that streak. You know I used to struggle with being a perfectionist, so here, I was staining my perfect sober streak.
Speaker 1:So here I was staining my perfect sober streak. So I was embarrassed to go back to recovery and say I'm on day one when I had almost 14 years, and so I really had to get over myself and get over my pride and only focus on recovery, because nobody cares it was only me that cared, like people will welcome you back with arms wide open and they don't care, we're all just, they're doing this thing together, one day at a time. We're not, we're not. Um sure, we we clap and go yay, so-and-so has 20 years of sobriety. Great, that is great. Right, I do want to celebrate that, but it was, but we can't. We're also celebrating that we're all just sober today and, whatever someone's thing is, if you can look at it that way, it really helps because we all just have today. We all just have this hour that we're in right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we're all on our journey together. Right, we're all walking towards on our inner journey to a better version of ourselves, so it's like we all have a different path, and when you have such a beautiful support around you, it does make it a lot easier.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you too.
Speaker 2:How would you define addiction?
Speaker 1:well, I'll first say I'm not a doctor and I'm not a addiction expert. I'm not even a sobriety coach. I'm a life coach and I'm an expert at serving the person I once was and I used to be addicted to alcohol. So for me, um, I define it as something we adapted naturally, like a ritualistic soother, and maybe we were just naturally looking to meet one of our basic human needs, because I don't think any of us really says, oh, I just want to have this gross addiction in my life. I don't think we seek that. We're seeking something innocently.
Speaker 1:And because addiction is a beast, it creeps up on us and ensnares us and we get caught in its trap, and so I think it's a soother that becomes a ritualistic soother and then, if it's something that's harmful for us, that can turn into a habit or addiction. And you know, because there are soothers or ritualistic soothers that are not harmful like I like to run right and so I am probably addicted to running. If I don't run I'm kind of fussy right or I'm there's certain things in our life that are not harmful for us now and they're part of the rhythm, it's part of your life and like, if you don't have that, it could be.
Speaker 2:You know you're not the same. You may not be as, like you said, you might be a little grumpy if you don't get your quiet time or whatever it is and I'm still moving in the direction I want to go.
Speaker 1:I know that some people, running or exercise can be a harmful addiction, right, anything can be Like what's good for one person could also be harmful for another person. So we're not all the same and we want to just be looking at that. Is this keeping me on the path of where I want to go? And what works for a while might start working. What works in one season might not work in another season, and that's part of being human. And then we need to shift our patterns, our habits, before they become harmful addictions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting too how you know alcohol is a soother. You know drugs soothe. There's a lot of different things. Gambling can be a soother, you know. Porn can be a soother than soothing us. It becomes the issue, rather than covering the issue or soothing the original issue. So that's kind of a very complex thing. About addiction, I think, is that we initially use certain habits and certain things to soothe away our pain, but then that method becomes the actual problem. That's right. Yep, that's exactly.
Speaker 2:And so can you tell us about your when your story? Did you have your rock bottom experience? Because a lot of people don't get help unless they hit rock bottom and for everybody that looks super different. For some, rock bottom is they're getting a car accident, they get DUI, they're in jail and now they have to sober up. For another person it's their spouse leaving them, you know their kids it's, you know it could be a fight at the bar and so many different things. A loss of a job and we have this perception of for someone to quit or to have the willpower you have to have this, you know, kind of train wreck moment. Tell us about your experience.
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Speaker 1:You don't have to have a train wreck moment, it just needs to be a train wreck for you, and I call it your pain threshold. All of us have a different pain threshold and I certainly have had moments that looked way worse than my rock bottom, and it was just a night. I was overwhelmed, doing kids back to school paperwork and I drank wine to soothe. I was feeling pressure like normal mom pressure, and I heaped on all this guilt on top of just the pressure of being tired and staying up late and getting through this paperwork, because I heaped on this story, this narrative on myself. That's like you're such a loser You're, you're a mom. Can't you do this? It's just paperwork, right? Can't you do just this basic mom thing? And I was just. I just remember that really clearly.
Speaker 1:I remember the narrative in my head back in 2007. And um, I so I had some wine. Then I had, you know, put the kids to bed like very high functioning. Other people didn't see this, except my husband, who was the only one, you know, up past the kids with me. But and I just was sipping wine, and then more wine, and then more wine and then more wine, and I'm I'm not physically, I'm just not a good drinker anyway, so it's like that was not a good vice for me and because I get sick, I would black out. It's not like I set out to do that, though. I just wanted a little crutch to do the freaking paperwork.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I mean in reality, that is hard stuff, like if you're a parent who's been there in a schoolwork and nowadays it's even more you get like 25 emails about this assignment and that, and for me it's a big overwhelm, you know, and it is. It feels like how is this a thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I've heard just really sad stories we all have about. You know lengths moms will go to when they're under pressure and harm themselves or their children. And I, you know, I mean, thank God, that was my pain threshold, that was my rock bottom. That was the morning I woke up at 3 am scared to death. I thought. I don't remember going to sleep. Did I pass out? What happened? Are my kids okay? It was just terrifying, even though it was just paperwork and that was the night.
Speaker 1:I looked up what to do and ended up at a 12-step meeting the next day, which is where the woman said that and recovery started. But I was scared to death to go to that meeting. I knew nobody in, scared to death to go to that meeting. I knew nobody in addiction groups. You know, I thought, like you said, I wrote that in the book. I thought it was for drunks living under a bridge drinking from a paper bag. And what's funny is I don't say that negatively I'm friends with all kinds of people now, people that have been in jail, that are in jail, that are living under a bridge, right, I mean, there's all these beautiful souls in recovery, whether they have a home or their home is not in a house or they're incarcerated or what, but we're all in there with the same goal.
Speaker 1:We don't share the same stories. We don't share the same goal. We don't have the share the same stories. We don't share the same lifestyle. We don't share the same personalities. We share the same goal and so I believe for me, why I don't want to drink is far more important than why I did drink. So I focus on that. And we talked.
Speaker 1:You know you brought up focusing on what you want. You know I say this all the time to my clients Focus on what you want, not what you don't want, because you'll get what you focus on. So if you focus on what you don't want, you're going to get that. If I'm so focused on how hard it is to give up drinking, I'm going to drink because I'm focused on drinking. It is to give up drinking, I'm going to drink because I'm focused on drinking. If I focus on this beautiful life I call sobriety or a sober lifestyle, I'm going to keep moving toward that because that's where my focus is on. So we get what we focus on. So focus on what we want, not what we don't want.
Speaker 2:That's so beautiful to focus on what you want, not what you don't want. What would you say to somebody who just feels really stuck and they may not be alcohol. For them, it could just be a scenario where they just feel like they can't get past this barrier, this wall, and they just feel really, really stuck.
Speaker 1:I would say you are loved, you are valuable. It's not your fault. Many, many people have been where you're at right now and are at where you're at right now, and so reach out to at least one person. There's probably a community group of people that have this specific thing, but tell somebody You're not, you're not, you have no reason to feel shame. So the first steps to get it out of the dark and you don't have to be loud and proud and write a book like I did that's that's one extreme, but you can be. There's a lot of anonymous groups, right, you can talk to a person anonymously. So find a safe person. If you don't find them right away, keep looking, because they're out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so beautiful. Yeah, I think just the thought of knowing that you're not alone in your struggle is not, you're just you. There's so many people that are struggling with different things and, yeah, in this world there's now we have access to all these different groups and you know, you can search online to whatever that is. You know, whether it's even from hobbies and different things. People are just doing so many different things. There's a way to connect with them, so I love that so much. You also help people to get from where they are to where they want to be. You close that gap and I love that. What are some helpful tools, coaching tools that you offer in your coaching program?
Speaker 1:Well, my favorite tool that that's in both of the books is what we just talked about is how to change those beliefs. So when, when we have a fact or circumstance in our life, it's maybe something we can't control, something that happened, what, what story are we attaching to that fact? Because that story, the story and the fact mesh together to form a belief. And so that's my favorite tool is change the story you attach to the fact and in that way you'll be able to change the belief. I go into detail about how to do that. It's a framework in my books, so there's. It's super detailed. People can just go in there and I have. The books are interactive so you can use it as a workbook even or not. But I do ask a lot of questions, because coaches love to ask questions and tap into the client's curiosity and their own resourcefulness. I never tell or give advice. I'm tapping into your creativity. So there are a lot of questions in the book to get curious about. What are those stories I've attached to these circumstances in my life, and could I be telling myself a better story? Yes, is this story serving me? Is it exhausting me or energizing me? If it's exhausting you, we're going to change the story.
Speaker 1:And it's so important because over the years we do this subconsciously, just how we form these addictions. We don't set out to do it, but same thing with narratives. We form these narratives. We're all well-meaning people just doing our best, but we get busy and life is busy and we form these narratives and then reinforce them over time and live with these beliefs for a long time. And that's where a good coach is really valuable, because that's kind of my job. I can see the blind spots that someone might not see and point it out. And then it's like I mean, the clients are the smart ones, right? Like once you have the light bulb, you're going to change the story. But we just we need each other, we need community to help remind ourselves, remind each other, of the loveliness that may have been forgotten over time in each of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, chris, and yeah, chris's book is incredible because it has little questions and you can fill in the blanks there and really a guide to help you uncover your story and help you reframe some of those bad or mindsets, old beliefs that are not perhaps serving you in where you want to go, so I'd love that. It's amazing that you're providing this as a tool to people to not only get sober, if that is an area, but also in other areas that may be a wall or they may be stuck. Well, I want to honor your time, chris, and I usually wrap up by asking three questions, which is what is the bravest thing that Chris has ever done?
Speaker 1:Walking into that first recovery meeting.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, yeah. But especially with the perception that, hey, these are the people and I'm I don't belong here, right, I'm not that right well, I think it was more.
Speaker 1:I think I've gotten myself to a place where I do belong here and that was scary too. Yeah, you know, and and I was alone and no, nobody went with me. I just no, not a friend didn't refer it to me because I didn't know anyone to ask. It was like an online Google search.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think what's interesting is that you know you are kind of the reverse or the opposite, in the sense of you were telling people you had a problem. Usually alcoholics are told that they have a problem and they don't believe it. Right, and it's like, no, I'm fine, like leave me alone, right, it is, but you're like no problem. And your husband, your pastor, all these people are like no, you're fine, you're not that person, like chill, you know funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um what is the best advice that someone gave you? I just got a great piece of advice on a podcast. Actually, someone told me I was. You know it's, it's your. I'm hearing all these interviews and it's.
Speaker 1:It can start to feel, when you launch a book, like you're talking about yourself a lot, but really this is not comfortable for me. I'm. It's not comfortable to share this vulnerable story in a book. And so this person told me that when you a message has been put on your heart that you put into a book or however, people are having a message like you with your podcast, that it is your job to steward that message well, really for the rest of your life. And that was good advice for me, because I went from feeling like I was talking about myself, maybe, and my story to I shifted to this is this is a message that God gave me that I'm in charge of stewarding, and it's not about me at all. It's about serving other people with this message and again, getting over myself and my pride and what people think I mean, just going. It's about other people and I'm just a vessel, and that was really good advice for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's beautiful Because if you steward it well, you're able to present it and this is serving somebody else. So I am coming, you know, all in, fully confident that this is going to help somebody and I'm really excited to share it. Versus like, oh, is this? Am I over? Am I kind of like shining too bright over here? Am?
Speaker 1:I doing this too much.
Speaker 2:You know I love that. That is such good advice for anyone. What are two to three books that were really pivotal in your life?
Speaker 1:Well, I love this book Man's Search for Meaning it's been around a long time by Viktor Frankl.
Speaker 1:Yes, one of my favorites as well and it's I quote it often. It it's in my, quoted it in my book, but I mean that's really the, the father of this idea that we can attach the meaning everything I just talked about. We are in charge of the meaning we attach to the situation in our life and my goodness, he was in a concentration camp. So if he, in that situation, could attach the meaning that he did and use it for the service of others and steward that message that still is still just out there for all of us today in that book, that's really impactful for me. Another book book I love this book by Ryan Holiday.
Speaker 1:The obstacle is the way it's um he taught he is studies stoicism and and puts a lot of wisdom in there from the stoic philosophers, and I love that. It's kind of a go-to that you can just pick up and flip through and be reminded. When I was in my, even before sobriety, when I was 33, for some reason I remember that's how old I was I read the Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, which became wildly popular. But you know, when I read it it really changed the course of my life because it I I learned. You know, it's not about me, it's about, um, who I want to serve and how do I want to do that, and then there's a lot of practical tools and examples for doing that, and so that made a big difference, because I think your young 30s are very impressionable time when you really get to decide the course of a lot of things in your future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's when you're still trying to figure it out. You're like I think I know what I'm doing, but not sure exactly where yet, Right.
Speaker 1:Yes, so those are the three that first came to mind.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, so those are the three that first came to mind.
Speaker 1:Well, chris is there anything that I haven't asked you or anything else you'd love to add to this episode and share with the listener? No, thank you so much. You asked all the great questions and I just I mean, I just want to say thank you for all these things we just talked about. You're you're doing it, you're walking the walk by having this podcast. I know it's a lot of work and I also know it serves a lot of people.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Thank you, Chris. It's been an honor just to make space for your story and I know it's going to really encourage so many people. And you know what's interesting about storytelling is, in order to share a good story, you have to walk through it right, and it's not pretty on the when you're in the middle of walking it through and once you get past the point and you're on the recovery journey, it's like okay, now I can share it. But even recalling some of that can still be difficult and still is like going right back into that. So I really just honor you for being vulnerable with your story and it being a guide for other people who need to hear something like this. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to tell your friends, leave us a reviewer rating and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, speckhopoffcom. Thank you.