THE ONES WHO DARED
THE ONES WHO DARED PODCAST Elevating stories of courage. You can listen to some of the most interesting stories of courage, powerful life lessons, and aha moments. Featuring interviews with leaders, pioneers and people who have done hard things. I hope these stories help pave the path for you to live out your courageous life.
THE ONES WHO DARED
Stop Spinning: Emotional Rest for High Achievers | Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith
Saundra Dalton-Smith is a Board-Certified internal medicine physician and work-life integration researcher. She founded Restorasis, which promotes workplace wellbeing through the 7 Types of Rest Framework™ aimed at burnout prevention and work-life balance. As a busy physician, author, and mother, she helps high-achievers address work-rest imbalances and achieve a thriving lifestyle.
An international wellness expert, she has been featured in various media outlets Prevention, MSNBC, Women's Day, FOX, Fast Company, Psychology Today, INC, and TED.com. and authored the bestseller "Sacred Rest," which discusses the seven types of rest necessary for productivity and happiness. And today we will be diving into her latest book called Being Fully known which she Challenges Readers to Discover the Freedom of Authentic Emotional Rest, Being Fully Known invites readers on a transformative journey to silence self-doubt and the limiting beliefs that keep us stuck to embrace the fullness of our God-given identity.
If you consider yourself a high-achiever or a go-getter, this episode is for you.
Links to Dr.Saundra Dalton-Smith:
Restquiz.com
https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast, where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, vekka, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the On a Day Podcast.
Speaker 1:This episode features Dr Sondra Dalton-Smith, who's a board-certified internal medicine physician and a work-life integration researcher. She founded Restorasis, which promotes workplace well-being through the seven types of rest framework aimed at burnout prevention and work-life balance. As a busy physician, author and a mother, she helps high achievers address work, rest and balances and achieve a thriving lifestyle. She's also an international wellness expert featured in various media outlets, including Woman's Day Prevention, fast Company, psychology Today, inc. And TEDcom. Today we are going to be diving into her latest book called being Fully Known, which challenges the reader to discover the freedom of authentic emotional rest. You guys are going to love this episode, especially if you're someone on the high achieving side and someone who identifies as a doer. Enjoy, dr Sandra Dalton-Smith. Welcome to the One Third Air podcast. It's so great to have you back.
Speaker 2:It's great to be here with you.
Speaker 1:So the first time we had you on, we talked about seven different types of rest and you wrote a book on sacred rest. And so today we are going to be talking about your newest book, called being Fully Known, and I would love to know about what inspired you to write this book and how does this book build on your previous one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in Sacred Rest I talk about seven different types of rest physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, sensory and creative. Well, we have a quiz at restquizcom and we have a whole lot of research that showed quite a few people were struggling with three of those more than the others, and those three included spiritual, emotional and social. And so I started really seeing that in my own life as well, that those were three areas that kind of continuously kept popping up in multiple different ways, kind of continuously kept popping up in multiple different ways, and then, after kind of seeing that research coincide with that, it just opened me up to looking at why is that? You know, what's driving some of those continued issues that we're having with emotional and social and spiritual rest, and so that's what I wrote about in this new book, being Fully Known.
Speaker 1:And you're a perfect example of someone who has been on the path of a physician. So that's what you've been doing your whole life and you model your message really well In this book. You show us about becoming, but also that transition portion which can be pretty painful, and so I'm curious to know on what made you transition from being a physician, being really comfortable in your field, being an expert in your field, to taking that leap into the unknown and being a speaker and author and doing all the wonderful things that you're doing currently At the Once a Year podcast. Giving back is part of our mission, which is why we proudly sponsor Midwest Food Bank. Here's why Midwest Food Bank Pennsylvania distributes over $25 million worth of food. Now, that's amazing. Join us in supporting this cause To learn more or to give go to MidwestFoodBankorg slash Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't say it was one of an easy choice, or even one that I came alongside God with, you know, is one of those situations where I really just felt like I was being prompted over and over and over again that there's something outside of what I've been doing. However, it didn't seem logical. I couldn't. I couldn't put all the pieces logically together in such a way that I, that the plan, felt like it was safe enough for me to step out and do and I think that's the hardest part of that.
Speaker 2:I think, whenever you feel like you're being called or pulled to something else that is completely different than what you've always done, you don't have a pattern or a framework for it. There doesn't appear to be a map. Have a pattern or a framework for it. If there doesn't appear to be a map, you just feel like I know I'm supposed to be doing something else.
Speaker 2:It's you're out on the deep end and I feel like that's that's the hardest part of it is getting over this, this need to feel like overly secure and stable and have all the answers to a place of just surrendering to the process, doing it messy, getting outside of your logic and reasoning and just going with the flow, for how your life is kind of taking you along, and it's been. It's been an amazing, just beautiful journey with lots of ups and downs, lots of challenges, you know, lots of different learning lessons along the way, but it has been fun and I and I think that's the part that most of us are needing in our life. We're needing the joyful satisfaction of living. We're playing too safe and then we're wondering why we're not satisfied. We're like why am I not enjoying my life? You know, some of the funnest rides are the ones that give you a little bit of a surprise in between.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We have to be willing to let ourselves get to that place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, we're always evolving, right. As humans, we're multifaceted, multi-talented, which you also touched in this book, and sometimes, though, the people around us are so used to and so comfortable with us being the way that they've always known us to be, and when we evolve and become different from what they're used to seeing us, we are faced with certain resistance, and you talk about the different attacks that we face. Can you go into some of the attacks and some of the resistance that we face when we may choose to take on a different career path or maybe evolve into something different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I call it friendly fire because usually the people you love, the people you think are going to support you, and then they start saying this stuff and you're like you start questioning. You start questioning whether or not you should do things. You know, one of them is the loss attack and oftentimes this attack tends to come as you know it comes. It comes out sometimes a little bit harsher than they think it is. I did this with my friend is what I share about in the book. She, she felt like she was supposed to go across the world to do something and I'm like that's a horrible idea. You know who told you you should do that? That's crazy and you know it wasn't that it was a horrible idea. It's just I didn't want to lose my friend. We had lunch every week. You know I was going to lose something with her move.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of us have to take a real hard look at when someone comes out against something that we so desire to do. What? What could be an ulterior motive? Not that they're trying to be malicious or mean, but what could be at the heart behind why they don't want this to happen?
Speaker 2:Another can be a safety attack. Maybe they are so safe and so afraid of risk, but you're not. You have a level of boldness they haven't developed yet, and so it's their lack of risk taking that they're kind of putting on you and they're making it sound like this is so risky and this is something you should be scared of because of your safety. But it's really a fear. Is what they're having? A fear rather than a true safety issue? Sometimes it's a control. You know, sometimes people want to be able to hold on to things and control the circumstances, even if that means controlling you, because you are a part of their circumstances, and so it just requires us to not get angry and offended right off hand, because that's usually what happens. Relationships get divided, people get mad at each other you didn't support me when I tried all the stuff and we just have to realize that there's something at the heart of that that's really driving those decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard it said before too that they're almost agreed. They are in that season of transition, grieving the person that you once were, and so how do we respond to that? Or what is a healthy way to process that with the loved one who say you know you are, they're seeing you grow in ways they haven't seen you grow before, they're seeing you jump into new ventures and take risks and they're just not really comfortable and there's that fear that comes up. What is a healthy way to handle that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you have to shine light on it. I think we have to not tiptoe around it and call a thing a thing, just kind of go directly in and discuss it. So if I'm chatting with, that is kind of like. My friend in the book shared an example of that she just kind of like came right in and was like hey, you know, I know this is going to change everything and I think sometimes we have to be able to and willing to say that and give what reassurances we can.
Speaker 2:So, for like in that situation, I know this is going to change things. We're not going to be able to have dinner, you know, together and, you know, laugh till we cry on each other's clothes, that kind of thing anymore, because I'm not going to be here and you're going to be there and all of that. But hey, we can still get together on zoom and have a meal together and you know you still can WhatsApp me whenever you want. You know what I mean. Just reaffirm that you're not losing me. Things are changing but I'm still here. It's still me underneath. Whatever changes are happening, it's still me and I'm still for you. I'm still here with you. I still love you, care for you, whatever the dynamics of the relationship may happen to be, because that's what we need. That's really what the person's trying to get at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's really interesting because, like you said, it's the people that are the closest to us, the ones that you think have the best interest in mind for you, right, and when they start to feel those things, it it almost has us losing confidence in me. Are we taking the right path? Am I crazy? Or is this the right way to go about it? And so it's just. It's an interesting transition of pivot, and I'm curious too how was that for you? Did you experience some of that with your friends and loved ones when you were transitioning from being a physician and just being an expert at what you do to going into something completely different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I absolutely did. I had a family member, I'll put it that way. I had a family member who who, when I shared really what I felt like was on my heart and what I envisioned that at that time just really, really kind of bluntly, was like oh, I don't think that's what you heard. I think you heard this because that, no, that that's you know, that's kind of pie in the sky, that's too much to dream about, that's kind of mindset and and it hurt because this is someone who I'd watched do some amazing things and it was as if to me I perceived it as, oh, they don't think I'm good enough, they don't think I'm able to do it, they don't think I have what it takes.
Speaker 2:I initially started kind of taking it in all wrong and it was years of kind of processing, which is how I can recognize some of the friendly fire now. Years of kind of processing to get to the point with that, they didn't want me to get hurt, they feared that I would be disappointed if I didn't get there and I've lived through so much disappointment in my life and when I was able to kind of get to a level of conversation with this person to see that was at the root of it. It's like you've lived through so much trauma and drama. I didn't want your hopes to get too high and get crashed, crushed again. There's a whole day. I went from being mad, angry and hurt by this person to seeing that they were trying to love me the best way they knew how that they were trying to love me the best way they knew how.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and sometimes we may take that the wrong way, like our perception of what we think they're saying and also what they're saying, what they actually mean in what they're saying, which also leads me to the spin cycle, because in that you mentioned how you had this belief that when something good happens to me, something negative follows, and I think that's a belief that a lot of us carry to some degree, right when we have that thrilling experience or when we're hit, that peak of something that we're trying to work towards or achieve, and then, right after that, there's, you know, you get sick, or something happens to your kid or whatever, whatever. And so can you speak into. How do we dismantle some of those toxic subconscious beliefs that we carry? Because this is what stops us from fully being known and fully becoming of who we're made to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we start self-sabotaging ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we all do it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you know how do we get past that. It really is kind of confronting it and confronting it head on. You have to recognize it first, because it's hard to break a cycle you don't even know you're in People just keep going around that mountain and you don't even know you're going around the same mountain.
Speaker 2:But when you recognize it, you have to then confront it. And where did the root of it come from? Because it had to start somewhere. You don't just end up in a cycle. Something starts the cycle, and so I had to go all the way back to when did I start believing this? What pattern or what was the initial thing where I thought this is the truth? And then, what is the? What is the real truth? You know, what is what is the truth that I can either frame through God's word or frame through through looking at it outside of my life, looking at someone else's life, not just taking my own personal experience, but looking at it in other ways, to be able to come to a determination of okay, this is just a mindset that I've wrapped myself up in, what's a different way of thinking? And then start living out of that different way of thinking. Because, for myself, I, as long as I can remember.
Speaker 2:Because, for myself, I, as long as I can remember, every time something good happened to me, I was just waiting. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it's like I was. It was like negative anticipation and expectation, and so I was not satisfied almost until I saw it, because then I thought, now it's over, I can move on to the next thing. And if you think about how warped that is, you will almost get into a situation where you make the negative happen just because you're like, well, it's got to happen, yeah, it's got to happen. For me to be able to go to that, whatever the next thing is, rather than being able to see that things are individualized, they don't have to be in a cycle, they can actually be linear and can go along a path, and or they can accelerate and actually get better and better. You don't have to, you don't have to always be spiraling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what are some tips that you have for someone who maybe feel stuck and they are in that spiral cycle?
Speaker 2:For myself. It's the reason why each chapter we use, we put like some specific scriptures for each chapter. You know, I really believe what it says, that the word of God is a two edged sword and it cuts between spirit and soul. And I feel like sometimes that was what is what has to happen. We have to have a complete reframing of our thinking process so that we are thinking from an elevated place, we are thinking with the mind of Christ, we are able to be to kind of view it in a completely different way. So I love if there's a cycle that I'm spinning around in having something very specific that I am saying. That is the opposite of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some of us too. We have a lot of trauma that we have brought from our childhood which that's something, too, you address in the book that there's certain frameworks that we bring to the table that aren't sabotaging to our us being able to be fully known, fully seen and just becoming of who we are meant to be. And if we don't deal with some of those traumas, then we can't get to the place of being the people that we're created to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too for myself too. I've often thought that I had to get to the place where it's like I people say things like I'm beyond my trauma, I've gotten beyond my trauma, my trauma is a part of me. I don't get like it doesn't go five feet behind me or five steps in front of me. It is like a part of me. I lived it. It is a part of me, but it does not have to dominate me. And so I think we have to get to a place where we understand the trauma does have some levels of shaping of us.
Speaker 2:It becomes a part of us, and it's the reason why on the cover of the book we actually put the olives because, I share about how, when we are, when olive oil is made, if you take the pit out, the part that's hardened in the middle out, and you crush it, you get an oil that is just not as flavorful. It's not as it's not as colorful, it doesn't have the fullness of what we expect with olive oil. And our lives are no different with olive oil. And our lives are no different If we take the traumas completely out, the traumas, the dramas, all the stuff we live throughout, we get an expression that is not as flavorful and colorful and full as it could be.
Speaker 2:So, rather than trying to get to a, to try to get to an unrealistic place where the try never think about the trauma it doesn't, you know, it's as if it never happened where I never think about the trauma, it doesn't you know, it's as if it never happened. It doesn't really exist. It happened, it changed things in me, it shaped part of who I am, and now let it all get crushed and release something beautiful that somebody else can benefit from. Let it all get crushed and release something flavorful that doesn't fit in but belongs in the spaces where it's at, because it brings a unique expression of God's heart, of his nature, of his healing, of his presence, all of those things that we get to carry with us.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful. Yeah, and healing is about also reframing. Right, we reframe the experiences that happen to us, that take us from perhaps being a victim of how we once saw the situation to seeing it differently, and yet the memory is not erased.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, because I don't care who you are or how healed you've been. There are moments when you will feel something. You will have some type of trigger. I've seen it so many times people who are like, oh, I don't, I don't think about that anymore, and sometimes something will hit your heart and trigger the emotion that was related to that If you've really been through any type of trauma and will trigger that and you start feeling I'm not healed.
Speaker 2:You are healed, but it's still in you and sometimes something like lights, a fire to it and you have to put the fire back out again. Doesn't mean you started back at ground zero, but it. It's in you, and so we have to be able to allow ourselves to be in process all the time, not feeling like, oh, I arrived and now, if anything happens, I didn arrive. It's, you're in process. Work, all the work in process. It all has levels of healing, levels of levels of release, levels of exploration with God, and we got to be okay with that. That we don't. We can't just check the box trauma checked and move on that. There is an ongoing process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I love about your work is you studied human behavior, you studied so many different patterns and you've worked in corporate and ministry and you're not really someone who's boxed into anything and I think you also address that somewhere in my research. And I'm the same way where it's like you know, don't box me in, I don't belong here or there. We are such multifaceted, multi-talented human beings that we're not intended to be in just one specific area and I think sometimes when we are growing or on our journey, we feel like this is it, or other people put us in these boxes and to evolve out of that is hard work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those boxes, I tell you, that's, that's the issue. That's the issue. We like our boxes. That's the problem. You know, I liked my box of being a physician because I knew what I was doing there. It was highly predictable, it was extremely safe, it felt comfortable to me, it felt known. I felt known, I felt seen in that role, I felt appreciated in that role. So it had all the fixings of a trap, is what it was. It had all the fixings of a trap and I feel like that's what happens to a lot of us.
Speaker 2:We have certain roles that when we get into them they started off as a blessing but then we allowed them to become a trap where we stayed there because it just feels so right and we stop looking, we stop exploring with God, we stop asking questions of his spirit, we stop even trying to see is there anything else? You know, do I like doing anything else? Are there other parts of me that I want to explore? Are there other things I'd like to learn? We stop even asking those questions of ourselves and unfortunately, a lot of us don't start asking those questions again until we're like in our 50s and 60s, you know, when you get to the place where all the kids are gone and you're home alone and you you got a lot of time on your hand, or you're retired and you're like now what? And it's a shame because we could have been asking those very same questions when we were 20 and 30 and 40, and exploring all along so so that we get to really be the fullest version of ourselves and enjoy all the different facets of the way God put us together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's also, in a sense, we get to a point that we're so good at something and so comfortable that we're no longer growing, and that's when we become stagnant. In some ways, we become dissatisfied, but it's also the comfort zone, so it's like to move from there to there is really stretching.
Speaker 2:It is that the whole process of becoming has tension to it. It's an uncomfortable tension, uncertainty, and I feel like that's why a lot of us resist it. We don't like uncertainty. It's a level of continuous stress and we hear the word stress and we think stress bad. Stress actually is good in certain situations. Growth only comes through stress. Stress simply means change, and so we have to kind of almost like change our mindset around the unknown and uncertainty. The unknown and uncertainty Because I mean, if you look at the Bible and scripture, every person that we celebrate in the Bible had to go through a great unknown. Every one of them had to go through a great unknown, and so they had to deal with this tension of becoming. So it's kind of strange that we seem to think we don't have to because it's a part of the growth process with God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I love that so much. And when we are in the process of growth, a lot of times we will have negative self-talk. And so what are some advice you can give us to overcome some of that negative self-talk and just some of the thoughts that we all battle with from time to time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the negative self-talk. There's a lot of reframing that has to do as far as what we say to ourselves. I sometimes will think to myself when I say this to anybody else, like anybody not a friend, a foe, anybody Some of the things we say to ourselves we literally would not say to anybody, not even someone we don't like, because it's so rude. Yeah, but we would say it to ourselves. And so when I say something to myself that I then check myself and like I wouldn't say this to my worst enemy, why am I saying it to myself? And then I often then have to even take a step back further. What, what makes me think I deserve to hear that? Wow, because sometimes that's the issue.
Speaker 2:It's like I'm not, I'm not even honoring some part of myself, that I feel like I deserve to be belittled or I deserve to be put down or I deserve to be whatever. You know, whatever it is that you're saying to yourself. And so I think we have to constantly stay in in conversation and processing is that's the emotional rest part of the book. Conversation and processing is the that's the emotional rest part of the book. That's why every chapter ends with these like daily unveiling questions, because we have to. We have to start asking ourselves why we're doing stuff. What's behind this? What am I really saying to myself when I do this or I say this, or I think that?
Speaker 1:I love that. Do I deserve to be told this? And that's such an interesting way to reframe that. The other thing that I love that you touched on this book and I think we all struggle with this as well is the difference between being and doing. I know that you're an achiever, you know and you love to do things, and I fall in the same boat where if I'm not accomplishing things, if I'm not doing stuff, I just feel less than to some degree Right, and it's almost like I don't feel productive, I don't feel like I'm contributing and all of that. But you really touch on the difference, too, between doing and being, and so, yeah, tell us more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a Martha. All day, every day, that is my let's get it done.
Speaker 2:So, yes, that that is my mindset as well. So the thing with doing and being is that doing keeps your identity wrapped up in the performance being what your identity, your identity just is, being what your identity, your identity just is. It doesn't matter anything else. No, no productivity attached to it, no outcomes attached to it. And in a society and a culture for outcomes and productivity and metrics are like how we judge everything, to say I, I am going to change to kind of take myself out of that way of thinking to the point where my identity does not require metrics, outcomes or performance. It just simply is, is completely countercultural and completely freeing, and it gives you the ability to then take some courageous steps and do certain things that you, that doers, may not do because they are, they are wrapping the doing and even if they begin in the mindset of what is the outcome, the productivity, the end result going to be where someone who is being would just step into it because that, because they're not attached to that.
Speaker 2:I'll give an example I do a whole lot of work with writers and speakers. That's where I do mentoring and coaching, and so I'll have someone say I feel like, I feel like I'm supposed to write a book or start a ministry or do whatever it is that they're that they feel led to. A doer would then rationalize how many copies are going to get sold? How many speaking engagements am I going to get? They're going straight to the metrics. How many followers do I have on social media? Is my platform big enough? All the stuff Someone who's being that identity, being what they feel like they've been spoken into says.
Speaker 2:You know what the success is? Just that I'm being who I feel like I'm called to be. I'm supposed to be someone who's writing and communicating and sharing truth. So whether one person or a hundred people read it or buy it or engage with it doesn't make a difference, because I'm going to just be who I am. And who I am is a writer. Who I am is a speaker. Who I am is someone who is free to share truth with other people. Who I am is someone who enjoys laughter. So I'm going to share laughter and they're just being who they are and letting the expression of that have its joy without worrying about what metrics follow or come with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good, but the pressures are real in our culture, right? I mean we're all right. I mean we're all pressured to. I mean I'm working on a book right now and it's like the platform the platform, the platform, and that is very opposite of being right, because being is resting in your message.
Speaker 1:It's, it's doing the deep work versus to. I have to build this because X, y and Z and if I don't build this, then this is going to look different and all this stuff. So and that's just one example right Of an author, just with the platform thing but we all have different pressures and so our culture is so focused about results and the hustle culture where it's like get things done and I love being productive. I'm not saying that just sit there and do nothing. But how do we learn in our culture to be more than produce and, you know, essentially be just producers?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a continuous act of surrender is what I'm finding, because, you know, if you sit down with I've now had the opportunity to sit with so many different people, with so many from so many different levels within their, their ministry or their work, as far as success, so to speak, as the world calls it. And when you sit down with people, one of the things that I find consistently with people who had had something happen and it's like, wow, how did this happen? How did all of a sudden, everybody wanted to purchase your book or your album or whatever it is that they had Most of those people will tell you I don't know, it's like all of a sudden, bam, it's like out of nowhere, this thing just happened. And I'm just here on the ride and I'm just trying to keep up with the ride. They may have had some, some plans and specifics, but they didn't necessarily, they couldn't orchestrate it exactly.
Speaker 2:The way it all came together and I think the beauty of that process is is that our culture tries to control the process to get certain outcomes and it can produce certain outcomes, but when it produces it, then it has to maintain it and a lot of work and energy and stress and negative stress and pressure that goes into the maintaining of it, because all of it came from human effort and human strength, whereas when we see someone who kind of went along with how you know, you thought this was going to be it, but it was actually.
Speaker 2:This is the thing God raised up and decided to use more than the other thing. They don't have to uphold it. God himself upholds it and it's and there's a and, even though there's a pressure could attach to the success, it's not the same pressure. It's a pressure to stay yielded to his process and to not put their hands on it and try to grab control back. And so I think we we have to kind of choose. Do we want to have to uphold all of it ourselves in the productivity, or do we want to let grace uphold it and our, our work be the work of surrender?
Speaker 1:That's good, yeah, I mean. And then you get emotional burnout right from trying to uphold the standards that you created, that weren't authentic to yourself to begin with. You were just going along with what was required or expected, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially. You know you mentioned like with platform. I can't tell you how many authors I've spoken to who are like well, they tell me I have to post on social media 10 times a day, or whatever it is. The new statistic is, and I got to do so many reels and so many this and I hate it. And it's like then why are you doing it? Like, what kind of life is that? Who signs up for that life? Is that success worth it? Because it's the selling of the soul, so to speak. Everything in you is telling you you don't want to do that, which means you're shutting down what you really want to do, and so you have to make a choice in what is actually of value most to me, and then be willing to release what needs to be released and grab hold of what needs to be grabbed hold to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's beautiful. What is the connection between rest and being able to live authentically? When we are in the state of rest that sometimes the most creative and incredible ideas come to life right when we're on vacation or when we are in a place that allows for us to just get rid of all the noise, all the distractions, and we come into that state of rest that now there's something that's coming out that we wouldn't have had had we tried to be so productive in the process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think rest definitely opens us up to creativity, and I feel like a big part of that is because most of the types of rest that that I call creative rest, the types of rest that that inspire us or motivate us to and bring forth innovation and creativity A lot of those have to do with nature and things that have to do with stuff that's already been created.
Speaker 2:So when we're looking at those things, when we're experiencing creative rest, we're beholding God in many ways. We're seeing aspects of his character, aspect of his greatness, of his goodness, and anytime you are beholding him, it is going to unlock something inside of you because beholding him acts like a mirror. It reflects back to us things that we then can see of ourselves, which then calls us out into the becoming, not to become more of something, but we're becoming more aware of what's inside of us because we're beholding who we're made in the image of, and so it's kind of this reciprocal process you behold, you become, you behold, you become, and then, wherever you happen to be, you can step into those spaces, recognizing you are bringing something into that situation that belongs there. It may not fit in, because fitting in is its own level of stress, but it has a place of belonging there.
Speaker 1:It is bringing some element of what you beheld into that space, because that's needed in the place where you happen to be, and so we kind of this, this ongoing process, where you see the flow of these three working together and you can see how resting particularly rest as it relates to creativity, your work and you continue to show us what it's really like to walk the walk into. Essentially, you're doing what you preach right, and so that's so beautiful, and what are some things that is currently lighting your fire?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's currently lighting my fire. The number one thing right now that's lighting my fire is just seeing people take steps of bold steps of courage into the unknown, with God just stepping out, trying it. I say risking, risking whatever is required to risk and oftentimes the risk is the risk of failure, as we put it but allowing themselves to just find joy in the doing and in this. Taking the action step I should say the doing of whatever he told you and I think that right now is giving me the most joy is just seeing people kind of be courageous and be who God says they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so beautiful to be who you're meant to be, essentially not the pressures of the world, because there's so much. There's so much pressure in our culture to hold a certain standard or be a certain way. And you know, when you look at all the different artists and people who have created some of the most pioneering things or pivoting work, it was them being fully authentic to who they are. It wasn't them trying to, you know, create something based on other people's expectations. I mean even the book the Shack, which you've probably heard of, right.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:That story is incredible. I mean, the guy just wrote a letter to his family, you know, and that was the work he did and he completed in six months. He never had any intentions of selling it. It became, and it was rejected to by publishers, and then it became a bestseller just through word of mouth and became a movie, and many lives have been changed because of it. But the author never intended it to be this productive thing that sells X, y amount of copies or whatever, and so I think that's something that we can learn too, from just being fully in tune with our creator and in tune with who we're supposed to be, and I love that your book really sheds light to that.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's fun. I always say I am a bit of a reluctant writer because I prefer to speak overwrite, because English is not my thing. I'm more of a science background text with God, because in the writing of it you learn so much about him and you and just his word and how he put things together and how, how putting words together work, words that can be very common, that you hear every day. Putting them together in a very specific way can have a completely different effect, and to me that it's. It's just. It just shows kind of just what our lives look like. You know, there's all these lives, there's all these people, there's all these words, but God brings. There's all these experiences, but God brings them all together into these unique sentences. And when I look at someone I oftentimes think God, what is? That person is a unique sentence in your story.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's so beautiful. What do that person is a unique sentence in your story. Yeah, it's so beautiful. What do you hope that people will get?
Speaker 2:out of your book being fully known. What will they get out of it? Jesus. That's what I hope they get out of it. If I simplified it, I hope they get Jesus out of it. I hope they read. I hope they read through the text, the stories, they read through the scriptures and they go through the questions and, on the other side of it, that they start seeing, they start beholding Jesus in everything they see and from there they start becoming more like him.
Speaker 1:And as a writer, as you were taking time to write this book, how would you say that this book has shaped you from some of the other work that you've done?
Speaker 2:I would say this, this I've never thought of writing a memoir, necessarily, or a book. That's kind of a retelling of my own story. I would probably say this book is the closest thing to that of me telling my own story and journey. So, and it's a journey in process, don't get me wrong, I have not arrived at any of the word, but but it's a journey I'm in process with God, with, and so I would say that's probably how it's shaped me. It's helped me to sit down with the process, celebrate things I didn't celebrate when I should have. Now that I look back on it, I'm like you know what I should have celebrated, that I called it a failure but it actually was a success. Or I beat myself up over that when I actually should have gave myself grace, and so I think that's what I've been experiencing as I wrote this particular book.
Speaker 1:What are some books that you're excited about currently or in your reading stack?
Speaker 2:You know what? I've been so busy? I don't have a reading stack right now other than the Bible. My reading stack is very slim. Right this very moment there's a couple of books that I have been talking with my husband about because he right now is the avid reader in our family and he has a to be read list the size of Texas, but I could not tell you what's on it. I told him to give me until April and we will take a look at it and we will take a look at it.
Speaker 1:Such is life, right I mean. Sometimes it's just you have to do what you can in your capacity and, as you know, someone who studied rest and you tend to operate in what you preach about right and so yeah, I took them all off my tube.
Speaker 2:I was like I need I. Right now I have to keep one single focus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, is there, Dr Sondra? Is there anything that I haven't asked you or anything else you'd love to share with the listener?
Speaker 2:You know. Nothing specifically comes to mind. I just, would you know, encourage people.
Speaker 2:If the book is set up in such a way that if you're someone who enjoys doing I shouldn't say enjoy, but who does fasting it's set up in a way to be able to use it as a 21 day fast it has 21 chapters to be able to walk through it at a pace. However, some people like to do it with it within groups and so we actually do have some videos that go with the book, that go five videos that go over some of the key chapters and key parts and sections of the book, so that you can work through it as a group and do it for six weeks or seven weeks or however many weeks you decide, so that you can actually have others to converse with it. Because I think it's helpful sometimes to be able to discuss some of these life experiences, because they are so common between so many of us and having opportunities to be able to share with a small group or with a friend and be able to talk about some of those unveiling questions as you process through them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do love how you included that at the end of each chapter you have a guide, you have some scripture, you also have questions, so it's really allowing you to work through each chapter. And having a book club that's how you grow, especially with a book like this. That really has you reflect deeper upon who you are and who you're becoming and things that you could be working on. And if you're in a book club on a book like this, it's like a mastermind guide. So I highly encourage you to get Dr Sandra's book called being fully known and it's a gem. There's so much in there that will benefit you as you grow and evolve. And, yeah, I just really have been enjoying reading through your manuscript.
Speaker 1:Oh thank you so much, and also I love to end the podcast with asking what is an advice that you'd love to pass on to the listener. It could be anything. It could be related or unrelated to the book.
Speaker 2:The thing that initially came to mind I had experienced this weekend. We had a women's event and it was an unusual women's event. The theme was joy and we were having dancing and praise and all the things. And I saw a young woman who looked literally like I did when I was her age and she was so afraid and she would not come forward like everybody else is like praising and dancing and doing all of the things, having fun, doing all the games and she was just kind of in the corner just looking and smiling and I and I that I would leave you with this thought, this thought when is it? When are you going to come outside of the box? What has to happen for you to get to the place where your joy is more important than their words? Because that's what I wish someone had told me many years ago.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's deep, yeah, I mean, for some of us that takes like a midlife crisis, right, Something to happen like a heart attack, just things that really are really, really difficult for us to really say. Hey, you know what I'm going to start becoming who I'm made to be and you start to find the discontentment within yourself where before it's just the. You're on this wheel and you're just going with emotions and it's like you're living but you're not. You're half dead. In a sense, your body's alive but your mind is not.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, Dr Sandra, for coming on the podcast. It's been an honor talking to you and I'm sure that the listener is going to be really inspired by our conversation and all the gems and tips that you have to offer. And again, go get this book where books are sold, called being Fully Known by Dr Sandra Dalton-Smith. Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to tell your friends, leave us a reviewer rating and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, speckhopawcom.