THE ONES WHO DARED
THE ONES WHO DARED PODCAST Elevating stories of courage. You can listen to some of the most interesting stories of courage, powerful life lessons, and aha moments. Featuring interviews with leaders, pioneers and people who have done hard things. I hope these stories help pave the path for you to live out your courageous life.
THE ONES WHO DARED
When Peace Feels Impossible: Kara Stout on Grief, Infertility, and Honest Faith
What happens when life feels like too much for too long? In this powerful episode, Kara Stout joins us to share her remarkable journey through wave after wave of loss—from surviving a near-stroke just one month after marriage, to losing both parents to cancer, enduring a decade-long path to motherhood through infertility and adoption, and experiencing the heartbreak of a failed adoption before finally bringing home her daughter, Nora.
Through it all, Kara found not just survival, but supernatural peace. She opens up about the raw honesty she brought into her relationship with God—an honesty that turned anxiety into strength and suffering into sacred ground. As a trained counselor and author of An Untroubled Heart, Kara offers wisdom for anyone walking through grief, anxiety, or long seasons of waiting. Her story reminds us that peace isn't found in perfect circumstances, but in a faithful God who meets us in our pain.
If you're in a waiting season, searching for peace, or grieving deeply—this conversation will help you feel seen, strengthened, and reminded that you are not alone.
An Untroubled Heart is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, and other retailers.
Connect with Kara on Instagram @SincerelybyKara or at karastout.com
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
I remember saying a few times during the journey that the unknown was one of the most painful parts. Like the unknown, like what will happen? Will I ever be a mother? I mean I just, and because it was 10 years for us, I really there was times where I was like I don't really know. I mean, like you know, I really questioned, like well, so my husband is adopted and so we've had a heart to adopt from the beginning of our marriage. I would say really, and but we thought maybe we would like I would conceive first, you know, and that just didn't happen. So it was about seven years of infertility. We went to doctors and there really wasn't that clear of an answer.
Speaker 2:Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast, where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, becca, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here, cara Stout. Welcome to the Once we Dear podcast. I'm so honored to have you on here today. Thank you, svetka, I'm excited to talk to you. Yeah, so I love that there's so much to your story.
Speaker 2:You recently just released a book called An Untroubled Heart Finding Peace when Life Feels Like Too Much and I know in all humanity we've all been in seasons where it just felt really overwhelming. And there's so many points and I'm excited to get into your story. But before we do that, kara is a writer, a wife, and you adopt a mom who's living in LA. You also have a bachelor's degree in psychology and a master's degree in counseling, so that's actually an interesting background for all the suffering and different things you've been through, right? Yes, yes, yeah, and I'm curious to see what got you into going into psychology and counseling to begin with. Was it in the middle or before all the things happened?
Speaker 1:So it was definitely before. So, yes, I went to for my undergrad psychology and then from Arizona State University, then moved to Chicago for graduate school for counseling. I was a school counselor there for several years, also did therapy as well, and then I had a carotid artery dissection which I share a little bit about that in the book which made me have a medical. I took a medical leave of absence from work. My career path has definitely been winding and then right around, well actually before that, that's when my dad passed away. That was my first experience with loss. Then I went to the direction into nutrition for several years and then into writing, and so, yes, it's so incredible right to see what God, how he uses everything that we, you know, our education, our experiences to bring us to these points in life comes together in this book, as well as my own personal experiences that I share that are related to faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so many people might not know what that is. Would you walk us through what happened and how you found out about?
Speaker 1:it? Great question, absolutely, oh, I had no idea what it was before. Yeah, so I was in my late twenties. I was in the middle of spin class, working out, and I felt like I was going to faint. So I left and thank God I had my phone and we lived across the street at the gym at the time. Also, this was exactly one month after we had gotten married, which was crazy timing.
Speaker 1:So I had all the symptoms of a stroke I had numbness and tingling in my arm, loss of speech, lost sight in my left eye. So it was not a stroke, praise God. So it was not a stroke, praise God. It's called a TIA, for short, transient ischemic attack and so. But I had to be on blood thinners. I was in the hospital for five days and then it continued on three and a half months. I had to be on blood thinners at home and I was just very weak for about a year. I remember it took about a year, full year, to feel like better, you know, and then it got. I got stronger, but anyway, that's why I took a medical leave and, um, that was a great experience in the sense of feeling God's peace even in that um something so scary, uh sounding.
Speaker 1:It was incredible that I had so much peace in the middle of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that when you started writing? Was that when your journey in writing kind of began?
Speaker 1:Actually no, my writing really began after I lost my mom, so I've lost both parents. Both parents passed away from cancer.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, and so, yeah, I lost my dad. They were 12 years apart. Where I lost them, 12 years apart, and so it was really when I started walking with my mom through her cancer journey, that's when the words just started pouring out and I couldn't help but talk about what I was witnessing, like how good he was even in the middle of like heartbreak and suffering, and the joy that I felt, that my mom felt, and so I just started writing so that I would say I mean, I've always loved writing, but really writing on social media, um, that was about six years ago.
Speaker 2:And when your anxiety was at your worst, what did it look like and what did you do to find that peace?
Speaker 1:So I would say it was at different points in life. So, like going back to the carotid artery dissection, I was in the hospital and I did not feel anxious. God really protected me and covered me. But then, when I got home from the hospital, that's when I was starting to feel really anxious. God really protected me and covered me. But then, when I got home from the hospital, that's when I was starting to feel really anxious. I was worried it was going to happen again or a stroke. You know, I just remember that feeling anxious and what I did in that moment was I just continued to pray and the more I prayed the more peace I felt and I just kept going to him and he would relieve that and give me, give me his peace.
Speaker 1:Um, and I really think it's beautiful and something to note that, um, that we feel God's compassion in both instances.
Speaker 1:Right, like I didn't feel anxious in the middle of that incident, but I did later on and he was compassionate when I felt anxious, like it wasn't.
Speaker 1:He came to me as his father and I think that's just so good for us to remember that our anxiety, really it can lead us and should lead us to God and to be honest with him when we're anxious, like Lord, I'm anxious and I, but I'm still choosing to trust you, and so I'm coming to you and I'm asking for help and um, and I believe that's honoring to him because that's showing our faith in him and our belief in who he is.
Speaker 1:Um, and so that's really my experience through different trials I've had where anxiety has come, where I'm like, okay, I'm feeling anxious, god, I'm coming to you again, I'm bringing you my worries, I'm bringing you my fears, my cares, and it's just that continual, persistent relationship with Him and prayer that I've really found to significantly give me that peace that only comes from Him. No-transcript doctors, all of that and then after somebody passes away, the amount of stress to put like all of pieces together was that was very hard. And again there was that for me, I was like God, I really need you, like it was just again that continual please help me, I need you, and so yeah, yeah, and that is that is definitely tough to walk through a loved one in that last stages of their life, like cancer, where it's just eating away.
Speaker 2:I've experienced that with my mom with breast cancer.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, thank you, and yeah, it's. It's rough because you get to see them in their weakest state and you know, you kind of hold on to hope and I don't know if in your mom's case or not, um, if it felt like a roller coaster ride where there was some glimpses of hope and things were going to get better, and then you then it goes again where things get bad and then they get better and you're like, okay, she may live. No, I don't think so. Things are looking for him now, you know, and then, and I think, just seeing them in the weak spot too, like you see a parent, someone who was a strong, a loving, a kind person, just to tear it in front of your eyes is really. I don't know about you, but for me it's like you have grief before they die, because you're grieving the person they once were and then, upon the death, you're grieving that they're no longer here. And I knew your mom was an amazing pillar in your life too, so that was a really big loss.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I feel like, exactly I love how you worded all of that and there's really, when you have that close relationship with your mom, there's really I mean, I don't really know of another loss we're gonna experience to that level. I mean, you know, with the mother, the mother who just raised us and father, you know, but like that mother bond, there's just something with that. And can I ask how long ago did your mom pass away.
Speaker 2:So just April 30th was the six year anniversary.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're about the same. So my mom, it will be six years in November. Oh wow, which is time is crazy, with grief.
Speaker 2:It is Because it's kind of like how I've heard it described is grief doesn't ever really go away. It just is kind of like waves. Yes, so in the beginning the intensity of the waves are really big, but you still get hit by different triggers and different things, and there's things that will remind you of her and you know like in the beginning I would just be like bawling in the airport or something and I don't even care who's looking Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's so true. Yeah, we'll miss them until we see them again, right? So it's like, and then the grief of not making new memories with them is really hard. Yeah, so it's like. And then the grief of not making new memories with them is really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's, and I bet too, with having your daughter Nora. It's not having her there, be as a grandma and seeing the process.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's a whole other layer of grief. It's very painful at times and so that's it's. So I always wonder if people don't have God in their grief, like what do they do? Like he really is the strength that we have, when we cannot even think, like I got to wake up the next day, you know, when it's early on in the grief, like I've got to wake up the next day and continue going in this grief or this peace. That really truly does not make sense, right, this peace that we, a peace and hope that we have in heaven.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, I think for me it was just knowing that she is in a better place and, you know, there's no more suffering, there's no more sorrow, yes, and that is comforting. A better place, and you know there's no more suffering, there's no more sorrow, yes, and that is comforting and so, yeah, that was something that helped me to kind of make peace with it. Yeah, you know, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Well, I'd love to get into your adoption story and your well, your infertility journey, really, because that was a really, really big process for you just to even get to adopt Nora. And I'd love for you to just to share of your process with the listener, cause I know there's a lot of women who are struggling with infertility and I haven't experienced it myself, so I can't, you know, understand it from an experience perspective that I have friends who have and it is a really, really rough road.
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Speaker 1:It definitely is. I remember saying a few times during the journey that the unknown was one of the most painful parts, like the unknown, like what will happen? Will I ever be a mother? I mean I just, and because it was 10 years for us, I really there was times where I was like I don't really know. I mean, like you know, I really questioned like well, and so, okay, so it was 10 years for us, we, so my husband, is adopted and so we've had a heart to adopt from the beginning of our marriage. I would say really, and but we thought maybe we would like I would conceive first, you know, and that just didn't happen.
Speaker 1:So it was about seven years of infertility. We went to doctors and there really wasn't that clear of an answer, which you kind of think, on one hand, oh well, maybe that's okay that there's no clear answer, but then it's like no answers can help, you know, in that. But we weren't really getting clear answers of what exactly was going on, and so, and then, after about year seven is when and this was, this was after my mom passed away too is when we started the adoption process. So like there was that piece of it too, of grief, but also, like I know, I'm feeling the stirring to to pursue like adoption, and that was an interesting season to be in, also walking through that without my mom, right, like talking to her about all of that, but anyway. So, yeah, so it was three years on the in the adoption journey and that's hard too. You know. There's a lot within the adoption that is complex but also very beautiful and it's worth it. But it can definitely be hard and there's challenges in that. We had an adoption fall through I talk a little bit about that in the book and that's hard because you're preparing and you're hoping, but you can't, like you don't want to do so too much, because you're sort of you're guarding your heart, yeah. And so so we experienced that.
Speaker 1:So we took we after the adoption didn't work out the first one, we took a break to heal. The first one, we took a break to heal and, to be honest, I was like I don't really know if I want to do like start again, like after that, you know, and so my husband and I are both like, okay, well, let's just keep praying about it. So we felt our hearts like ready again. And then soon after we like were open again to adoption and started again the process. We had our first conversation with Nora's birth mom and that was in June no, no, no, the first. So we got an email, we saw her the case in June. We had our first conversation in July with the birth mom and we really loved her we still love her and then now and then Nora was born in August. So it was just very sweet.
Speaker 1:And I look at Nora now and I'm like, yeah, like she was it all along, she was our daughter, our baby girl this whole time. God knew we just had to wait 10 years for her. And so in the waiting I definitely encourage people it's hard, it's painful, but lean into it, people. It's hard, it's painful, but lean into it. Lean into that season, because there's so much that God does in the waiting season that he transforms us a lot. He grows us, he matures us and really he prepares us for His will to be done. And that's definitely what I saw Him doing in the 10 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's so powerful because you shared too, how, a year from it was, almost a year after your failed adoption, that you were just, you know, in a really a place of a broken heart, of having that adoption failed. You guys, if you want to share a little bit about that experience where it was just kind of like really really difficult for both of you you and your husband, experiencing just it felt like there was no hope because you guys had everything planned, you flew out to adopt these beautiful babies and, yeah, tell us a little more about that moment exactly.
Speaker 1:yeah, they were twins, twin boys. Uh, for the, the adoption that fell through, um, and yeah, we flew out to the state our two dogs, cars, like well, the car seats. We got there because you have to have car seats, yeah, and it was right before her due date. And then we we got a call on Monday morning and the lawyer had said that the birth mom changed her mind and that she couldn't parent. But there was somebody in the family that was going to parent and I remember it was extremely hard for my brain to process that at the time because I was like wait what? Because we were literally physically there at the time. Cause I was like wait what? Cause we were literally physically there and I just I was crying so hard and I had just had. This is such a gift from God too.
Speaker 1:A good friend of mine lived in the state and so I had just seen her for coffee and was driving home. And I say that because we actually had to stay for several days just to confirm that this was like not going to happen. So we had to stay in this state, we couldn't fly home immediately and I had this friend and her family that, like in her group of women. I went to their prayer group one night. Like these women just come around me, like in this season, right, like in the middle of like this great suffering, like these women, just like they were crying with me, it was like whoa God, like, yeah, like our, like our sisters that we haven't even met, like just coming together. It was beautiful, like it's making me tear up. But um, but yeah, so, um, yeah, I hadn't thought about that in a bit, but it was such a gift.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think just to know that you're not alone in that season is everything right, that's everything. I feel like we can go through so much when we have a community of people around us who are there for us, who are rallying behind us, even in your most heartbroken state. When you have someone who says, hey, I'm going to walk this with you, even in your case if it looked like just that day people saying, hey, we're hurting with you, yes, we've got you, even if they were there for just that one day, that one stop while you were in that state, to know that you have that backing and support is, yeah, I think that's so powerful and so touching, you know. And then, and then, on top of that, not having your mom there in the middle of this heartbreak right, exactly so painful. But then to be surrounded by a community to say, hey, we're here for you and we're going to help walk you through that, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yes, you said that beautifully. Yes. What would you say to someone who is in the middle of their fertility journey or infertility journey and they just are grasping for air and they just feel like there is no hope? And because you were there, what would you say to that person? I?
Speaker 1:would say, even though it doesn't feel at times, there's hope. There is, there is hope, and what I really felt brought me a lot of peace was the truth that God is sovereign and at the same time, he's a personal God and so that there's both right. So he's sovereign, we can rest in His eternal plan. He sees the whole picture. Like I said, he saw 10 years before I did right. He saw Nora, he saw the blessing that she was going to be when I couldn't see clearly, when I was in the middle of heartbreak and feeling, like God, what do I do with this? And so a big lesson that I have learned is that we can hold both. We can hold both that God is good, god is sovereign, and also that he loves us and that we can be honest with Him and raw with our like, tell Him, like God, I'm in pain, this waiting is painful, so that's and that. So, in that I have grown deeper in my relationship with Him and there is such that sweet gift that we get when we are honest with Him and that intimacy grows.
Speaker 1:So I would just say encourage to just keep leaning on God and then, when it's hard to trust on God, and then, when it's hard to trust, ask Him to help you trust Him more. I feel like that's something. There's that hymn so Sweet to Trust in Jesus when it says oh for grace to trust you more. So that has been a prayer sometimes for me, like give me grace to trust you more when it's painful. And so I feel like that has been really significant for me is knowing both knowing God is sovereign, he holds the eternal plan, he has this grand perspective which we don't. Our perspective is very, very limited. And, at the same time, knowing that he promises to be with us and with the woman who is walking through this heartbreak and this longing. He's with her and he will always be. And so there is that comfort, there is that peace that comes. That again just doesn't make sense when we are relying on him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then with like processing grief, what would you say to someone who just feels ashamed, that they're still sad, that they're still grieving? What is you know, even from your counseling background, how would you advise someone just like processing in a healthy way and having that shame, Like I can't believe I'm still grieving this? Oh yes.
Speaker 1:Well, I definitely believe that shame is not from God and that there is no shame ever in the emotions that we experience. This life is hard. Yeah, let's be real. Let's be real. This life is hard. It's filled with suffering and trials and difficulties and anxiety, because this world, I mean, it's a broken world. We're not in heaven, it's not, you know, we're not there. But in the meantime, we have God to walk us through and there is no shame ever. I say this in the book, needing God and needing his help. And so I would just I pray right now that the shame would be lifted off in Jesus' name, because that keeps us in bondage, along with any fear or whatever. If we're going to God for healing, that shame is just it's bondage. Going to God for healing, that shame is just it's bondage.
Speaker 1:And if we look through the scriptures, how honest David was with his pain and Paul and his weaknesses in, I mean, there is this theme throughout of these people of faith who, hannah, I was just I'm reading, and I'm reading 1 Samuel right now. 1 Samuel and she. In the first chapter it talks about how she wept bitterly to the Lord. And there we see again, she's honest, she was bringing her anxieties, her grief of waiting and like prolonged waiting and wanting a child Again. There's that honesty, and it didn't say in scripture that she felt shame, like she was just. I am weeping before you, lord, I am longing for a child, and so in that verse, I have it written in here. I wonder if I can find it fast. Okay, I found it. This is one of the entries, and it's titled Meeting God in your Vulnerability. So it's a lot of what we're talking about and just the human experience, how it's layered with emotions that can draw us near to God.
Speaker 1:And so these two verses in Psalm 34, so it's Psalm 34, four through five, and this is the new living translation I prayed to the Lord and he answered me. He freed me from all my fears. Those who look to him for help will be radiant with joy. No shadow of shame will darken their faces, and I just love that because it's like we see those who look to him. So so David um was experiencing these fears, and we could say other emotions too, right, um?
Speaker 1:And but the key here is that he looked to him. He looked to God for help, and so, and then it. So he went from having fears to being radiant with joy after seeking God's help. That's powerful. I feel like I mean, you know, when I think of different experiences I've felt like fear, whatever, and then that he can bring joy. And I know I've experienced that with different times, with my mom just feeling this joy that did not make sense in the middle of what I was experiencing, but I know it was only God. And then there's that part no shadow of shame will darken their faces. So again, there's no shame ever when we experience these painful emotions and then, therefore, we go to God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, was there a moment where you realized that you had become stronger because of the pain or the suffering that you endured?
Speaker 1:That's a really great question, I think, yes, I think it was when my mom was diagnosed, because after my dad there were several years where I was so worried about my mom was diagnosed. Uh, because, because after my dad there were several years where I was so worried about my mom, I was so worried I was going to lose her too. And I remember my sister saying to me wow, like your faith is very like I forget how she phrased it, but she had made a comment Like I would have been so worried about you just falling apart a few years ago, uh, with now mom's diagnosis, and and and so it was a comment about that that she had recognized, um, and that strength really I would attribute to to God. Well, I mean, how, um he gave me strength, um, and also I would just I my faith, I was going to him and continually praying to him and leaning on him.
Speaker 1:Um but yeah, I feel like that was the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you also mentioned resting in gratitude. How do you particularly do that? When your heart feels really heavy?
Speaker 1:Yes, resting in gratitude, I think, because really, if we take the time to zoom out and look around, we really can see a lot of good that God is doing Even in the middle of the hardest. I mean, really, I saw so much good in the middle of the hardest seasons. I walked through Um, little things, big things, you know, like um, little things, like oh, I shouldn't even say little, but like, let's say, I was driving my mom one day and there was a lot of traffic to her cancer treatment, but we laughed about something, or like you know just, or we worshiped to our favorite, like we had this CD, well you know, in her car where we just would always listen to these hymns together, and there was so much peace and joy. And I have a video of her to this day, like, where you can hear her singing in the background.
Speaker 1:I'm driving one of like I took a video, and so I guess what I'm saying is there's all blessings, even within the hard times, if we really try to see. So we open our eyes to that and that is what I've really found. There is so much to be grateful for and, as I say in the book too, that he really and one of the things, too, with prayer is that God is really the gift. His nearness is such a gift and there's so much gratitude. I feel like if we remember the God of the universe hears our prayers, that's astounding and what a gift. So I feel like there's a lot to be grateful for in that that, in my suffering, I can pray that that in my suffering I can pray, yeah.
Speaker 2:And don't you find it that in your suffering is when you kind of become more tenderhearted that things stand out to you and because in a sense you are stripped away of other things that may be a blockage. In a time of a high, you know, when you're on top of the mountain everything is going great and you feel really good and maybe you feel powerful in your own strength and your own abilities and all the things. But in the middle of that valley, where everything is stripped away and there is so much unknown, like, is my mom going to make it or will I ever be a mother? Will this situation ever have a resolution? You, you're in a place of vulnerability, but also in this tenderness. That is hard, but it's also so beautiful absolutely yes, yes.
Speaker 2:What do you hope um your book? The untroubled heart will like. What's the impact?
Speaker 1:I um I feel like there's a couple of hopes that I have for the book Um. One is a lot that we're talking about um that women would really um see God's goodness and faithfulness and trustworthiness um through some of the things that I share personally, but also that it would really that they'll see for their own lives that it will really help them see his goodness whatever they're walking through, and his comfort and peace and healing um as they're walking with him through the through the book. So I wrote these words, but really it's it's to through the book. So I wrote these words, but really it's it's for them to be um to draw near to God, um, and I also felt a need for the evening, so it's a morning and evening.
Speaker 2:Which is unique.
Speaker 1:A lot of devotionals don't do that, so yeah, I really had a heart for the evening portion, um, and so that is really the hope is for women to bookend their days. So they start their days with God, prayer, scripture, bringing their worries or whatever that's on their mind. They bring it to God in the morning and then hopefully, you know that will carry them through and they'll think about what was that day's topic throughout the day and then at night they come to him again and if there's other worries or just different things on their mind at night because a lot of times at night there's things that we're working through, or that's for me personally, when I was going through something hard, or even now if I'm just exhausted, or you know, like we've been talking about just the different layers of grief. Mother's Day is coming up and so it's also my birthday, so it's like so this joyful your birthday is on Sunday.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh yeah the 11th, oh wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Well happy early birthday.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you. So with that there's, like this celebration, but also I carry the grief of, like my mom, you know, and so there's this holding this both um together, but I forget why I went all that, uh, tangent, but so anyway. So, oh, I know what I was going to say. So at night, um, as often when I personally will like, tears will come for me, and so you know. So you know, I felt that again that that evening portion was so necessary and needed, and so really, that is building a rhythm for each reader to go to God morning and evening. And then I'm prayerful that that will continue beyond the devotional, beyond the 30 days, that they'll continually go to God morning and evening and throughout the day, um, and that will build peace. That will be built peace in their, in their lives, and that's my prayer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, from a practical standpoint, what are some surprises that you had along the way of your infertility and adoption journey? Maybe someone who's not very much aware of the subject? What are some things that you were surprised by as going through it? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I was surprised, I guess, by, I think I was surprised by how much harder I thought it was. I mean, I know that might sound, I don't know, maybe I was naive, but it's harder than I thought it would be. I think, because, again, that, um, you have, you have hope, but you also, like, are continually trying to surrender to God. You know, like, lord, your, your plans, your will. But I'm also like, how do I not get too excited, how do I not get too hopeful? And so so that one thing too, I, for me, personally, is I had mentioned that adoption is complex, and so when we so we brought Nora home from the hospital, so she was born in a different state as well, so we flew overnight, an overnight flight, and spent the time, spent like a day, with her birth mom, and her birth mom is truly a joy. I'm so thankful for her, her birth mom is truly a joy, I'm so thankful for her.
Speaker 1:And then, but when we were leaving the hospital, it was really hard because I could feel her birth mom. I just felt like I could feel what she was feeling, and it was hard, and so I felt a lot of grief, and so that first night, I was really, really feeling the grief that the birth mom may have been feeling or most likely was feeling, and so I was. You know, it makes sense now on the other side of it, but I wasn't anticipating that intense emotion for her, for the birth mom, and so I was just praying and praying, and Michael and I continued her for the birth mom, and so I was just praying and praying and we, michael and I, continue to pray for her birth mom and um, and it's an open adoption which we are so grateful for. So Nora and her birth mom, I would love whatever relationship unfolds Like I'm completely so happy about.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's so important If that's a possibility. That's not always the case, you know, that's not always how it goes. So I feel like, so that was a surprise in the sense for the grief for me about that. But again, everyone's journey can be different. Some people don't get to meet the birth moms, so I think it's really really being submitted and surrendered that God's will will be done and just praying for that. We prayed all throughout like Lord, your will be done for the birth moms, the babies, the birth families, if there's more involved, and for us, and so that's where we had the greatest peace. It's like involved and for us, and so we. That's where we had the greatest peace is like God. You see, this whole thing, we just can't see it. And so there's a lot of peace in that, because there's a lot of unknowns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think sometimes if we see the whole staircase it would kind of scare us, Like if someone told you hey, by the way, your infertility process is going to take you 10 years.
Speaker 1:You'd be like what? No, thank you, let me figure something else out, or I don't know. Is there an alternative option to this? Yes, that's so true, it's God's protection. I believe he's protecting us and right, and in that he's building the dependency on him and our faith. I mean, that's really where our faith is built. A lot, a lot of it is yeah, how would um?
Speaker 2:how can we practically support someone who's dealing with anxiety or is going through grief?
Speaker 1:I think this is a good conversation. I think more christians uh, I think it'd be good to talk more about this in the christian conversation, because I think there is this negative aspect, like this negative spin on anxiety, where there isn't as much compassion as I think there needs to be if someone's experiencing anxiety, and so I think, instead of trying to put a Band-Aid on it and just saying have more faith. I don't agree with that, because I believe that we do have our faith is seen when we are going to God. Like God, I am experiencing anxiety and I need you. I need your help. So I am trusting you to be my remedy, to be the solution to this, and I'm bringing you my worries and I feel like sometimes that's a piece missing in our conversations of when we will experience this painful emotion and then we bring it to gone. It's like, well, there's this huge step in here, like we see in David, where it's like, when my heart is overwhelmed, lead me to the rock that is higher than I. So he's acknowledging, hey, my heart is overwhelmed, but I know I'm going to God with that, and so I think that's an important piece of this that we need to really talk about that.
Speaker 1:We will experience different things anxiety or grief or whatever but we don't want to bypass our emotions and we certainly don't want to do that to other people, because that's really painful if somebody minimizes what our personal experiences are. And so I think practically is listen to somebody, like be there and hear, hear what they're going through, hear their experience and it may be different than ours, right but have that curiosity and have that compassion, because look at God, he's so compassionate. And so if we can lean into God's compassion for one another and we can hear them, and then we can pray, like God, you know, pray with them and offer that support and that encouragement to help somebody with that to get to a place of peace and healing. So we're with them in that instead of just brushing it aside, and I think sometimes that can happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instead of dismissing it or making it seem like that is a weakness and you shouldn't be dealing with this if you're a person of faith, yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I think that. Yeah, I think sometimes, unfortunately, some people just think that that is a weakness and you shouldn't be experiencing certain feelings or certain and you should dismiss it. But the truth is that what we don't feel we can't heal, so we need to allow our bodies to process it and release the anxiety, release what we're experiencing, so that we can heal and walk through that rather than just stuff it, because the stuffing will come out in ways that is most likely unhealthy.
Speaker 1:You said that, so I love how you said that. That's exactly it, right, exactly. We have to heal, and so, in order to do so, we have to be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think it's doing a disservice when people going back to that shame, when people may feel, oh, ashamed, well, that's not going to help with healing and it's certainly not it's going to block them going to God and that is not good, because he's our Father and so we go to Him. And there it is again. We're building that faith and we're building our relationship with Him as we continually go to Him, and that's the testament, that's our faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Well, Kara, what is the bravest thing that you have ever done? I love this question so much.
Speaker 1:I know it's good, um okay, so.
Speaker 2:I think you just broke off. Go ahead, Start over. I don't know what happened. It just like bubbled in.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, okay, can I say two things? Yes, you can say two things, is that okay, okay? Yeah, well, because two things came to mind I would say one is being one of the caregivers for my mom. I feel that was really hard, but God helped. Give me that bravery and courage. Um, as you said, to see her in that state and and to walk with her. Um, yeah, so I feel like that, that, that is um, I would say that is one.
Speaker 1:And then writing the book, this book because, well, writing a book in general is a brave thing. There's vulnerability in there. It stretches you, it stretched me. I was totally dependent on the Lord to write through me and we adopted Nora. I was literally signing the book contract when we were adopting her. So I, yeah, so I was writing the whole first year of her life. So I was learning to be a mom while writing my first book and I was completely exhausted, but like, but like at the same time there's two babies happening at once.
Speaker 2:You know, there's the book baby, and then there's the baby, baby Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:But like I it's. It was evident to me that I was like, wow, lord, I really need you, you know, um, and so I was. So I I guess I would say there was bravery and I was like continuing to do it. But yeah, just total reliance on God, total, and so I'm grateful for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:What is the best advice that someone gave you? So I would say the best advice is not necessarily in words, but example, and the example of my mom, because she was such a beautiful example of faith in her suffering. So, and then that taught me okay, wow, Nora, my daughter is witnessing me and seeing you know advice in the sense of an example to her in multiple ways, you know, and my mom walked through a lot of grief in her life and I witnessed that. I witnessed how she handled her grief and how she had this peace and joy that really I was like whoa, I mean my, before I was born, um, two of my brothers passed away in a car accident and so so, yeah, Um, and so I grew up just seeing this example, my whole life of this woman of like, so much joy, so much peace after the loss of children, and then watching her, you know.
Speaker 1:Then my dad passed away and then walking through her own cancer treatment and in the middle of her chemotherapy, I remember her just praising God, like God, you're so good, Thank you, God. Like, in the middle of her chemotherapy, I remember her just praising God, like God, you're so good, Thank you, God. Like in the middle of that, you know, and I was like that is such a powerful example for me and I think about it all the time, so I feel like that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a beautiful thing to witness. My mom was just the same in that sense, where you're like, are you actually this content, or you're keeping it together for me to see, because it's kind of unbelievable that you could be so at peace and so joyful, never complaining, and just you know, like completely carrying that burden, like a champ, where it's like, how are you doing this, right, right, yeah, that's beautiful. What were some books that were transformative for you?
Speaker 1:So the Bible I'm going to say the Bible and I really am going to say also, I mean the whole Bible, but Acts especially has been encouraging to me through the years. I love the book of Acts, but Acts especially has been encouraging to me through the years. I love the book of Acts, I love their boldness, their faith and their boldness to keep sharing their faith and suffering. There's a lot of suffering that they endure in Acts and so that really impacted me every time I read it. And then I would also say I want to make sure I have so AW Towser, the Pursuit of God, um, that book.
Speaker 1:And especially I want to read just this little part where I remember reading this is in the foreword that Towser literally wrote the Pursuit of God while on his knees. I mean, he wrote the book on his knees literally. Wow, perhaps that explains its power and the blessing that has rested on. It is what it says. But, um, but I remember being impacted by that of like what we do in this life, I mean, if, if we're not literally on knees, is our heart posture on our knee, you know, on its knees. So, um, that that was really impactful for me, that book, and then, especially that part where, knowing that he wrote it on his knees Wow that is very unique, for sure.
Speaker 2:Um well Kara, where can people find you and your resource, your new book, where are they able to get all?
Speaker 1:that, yeah, so I am. Um. I'm on social media Sincerely by Kara. I write prayers on there, bible plans I share, um, and then the book is on Amazon and then, um, it's also available at Barnes and Noble and Target other book retailers as well. Um, have a whole like the list of the book retailers on my website, which is karastoutcom, and that's Kara with a K, exactly, yeah, karastoutcom, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you'd love to share with the listener?
Speaker 1:I feel like you no, I feel like you covered so many great questions. I feel like we covered a good amount yeah.
Speaker 2:Good, all right. Well, thank you so much, kara. It's been an honor having you on and I really hope this episode encourages so many people.
Speaker 1:Yes, me too.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to tell your friends. Leave us a reviewer rating and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, speckhopawcom. Thank you.