THE ONES WHO DARED
THE ONES WHO DARED PODCAST Elevating stories of courage. You can listen to some of the most interesting stories of courage, powerful life lessons, and aha moments. Featuring interviews with leaders, pioneers and people who have done hard things. I hope these stories help pave the path for you to live out your courageous life.
THE ONES WHO DARED
From 1% Chance to Soul on Fire: John O’Leary on Choosing Courage Over Catastrophe
What if your worst day became the beginning of your best life? At just 9 years old, John O’Leary was burned on 100% of his body in a gasoline explosion—and given a 1% chance to live. But instead of giving up, he chose to fight. And then he chose to lead.
In this raw and powerful conversation, John opens up about the explosion that changed everything, the quiet heroes who helped him through the darkness. We dive into how John wrestled with pain, purpose, and the daily decision to live as a victor, not a victim. As his dad once asked him: “Why not you?” That question became the cornerstone of John’s mission to inspire others to live boldly, love deeply, and find meaning in their own scars.
- A surprise 8-second hospital visit from Hall of Fame broadcaster Jack Buck that changed everything
- The brutal but life-giving encouragement from "Nurse Roy" during agonizing treatments
- The powerful question from his father that shattered his victim mindset: “Why not you?”
- How John transformed trauma into a mission—and why he wouldn’t change a thing
- The story behind his upcoming feature film, Soul on Fire (in theaters Oct. 10)
John’s message isn’t just about survival, it’s about choosing significance over success, turning pain into purpose, and becoming a light in someone else’s darkness.
If you're navigating struggle, burnout, or just craving real inspiration this conversation will change how you see your own story.
🎬 Don’t miss the upcoming film “Soul on Fire,” based on John’s life, premiering nationwide October 10th.
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Welcome to the Wants of your Podcast, which elevates stories of courage. I'm Yosveca, and today's episode is really, really special. And if this is not your first episode listening to the podcast, then you know that I say that a lot, and that is because I truly aim to bring some of the most incredible, inspiring human beings on this podcast that can encourage us to live courageously within our own stories. And so today we're sitting down with the incredible John O'Leary, who's an author, speaker and one of the most inspiring humans you'll ever meet. Trust me, if you don't know John's story yet, buckle up. At just nine years old, he survived a fire that burned 100% of his body and somehow turned that unimaginable pain into purpose. Now that story is hitting the big screen this fall and the new movie called Soul on Fire, and today John's giving us the behind the scenes. Look at what it's been like to see his journey turned into a feature film. We talk about resilience, faith and silent superheroes, and if you listen to this podcast, you know exactly what I'm talking about or some people call them guides, and how sometimes the darkest moments are the ones that end up lighting the way forward. So I promise you guys it's going to move you.
Speaker 1:So let's get into this episode. Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast, where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, becca, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here. John O'Leary, welcome to the Once we Are podcast. What an honor it is to have this interview with you today.
Speaker 2:Well, I wish we started the recording about 12 minutes earlier, because then individuals would have heard more of your story, which is fascinating, and it is an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, which is fascinating, and it is an honor to be with you. Thank you Well, you are a remarkable example of human resilience and why our scars don't have to define us. Instead, they can become our greatest teacher. And I was really deeply encouraged. I read your book on fire. Seeing your TED talk. I was also really moved by an early preview of your movie called Soul on Fire, which I know I'm not allowed to give any spoilers, so I won't, but that drops in theaters on October 10th. So everyone listening, just be on the lookout for that. And you had one chance of survival after a fire that burned up a hundred percent of your body, with 87% of them being third degree burns, and before that your life was really good as a nine-year-old. Can you take us back and share what your life was like before the fire?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what a great way to set up the question. So let's start with where it is today. Today I am married to my college sweetheart. She's gorgeous inside and out. I have four kids. They are all teenagers now, so I'm an old dad. I used to be a young dad and that's the kind of dad I love. I love them when they're little and crazy and life is chaotic.
Speaker 2:I am an author of two books and a speaker, and now there's a film coming out called Soul on Fire and it's awesome. Like this, it's a wild story, and what makes like you, what makes this story so remarkable, is from where it came, and it is a story from ashes utter, devastating ashes, and ugliness and brokenness. So my story starts back at nine years old. I have a mom and a dad who love each other and love their six kids. We have a big old, fat golden retriever who eats the scraps off the table. I mean, it's just like Americana Midwest. I grew up in St Louis, missouri Church on Sundays pancakes afterwards fried chicken at grandma and grandpa's Sunday night.
Speaker 2:That's my life, yeah. And then it changes. So I'm sure that's where you want to go next. But I watched early in my life as some kids in my neighborhood were playing with fire and gasoline and these were like 11-year-old, 12-year-old boys in my neighborhood. I looked up to them. I figured if they could do it I could as well. So I walked into the garage on a Saturday morning, january 17th 1987, bent over a five-gallon can of gasoline you know it's 42 pounds Set the flame down, bear, hug this metal container and start to pour and before the liquid came out, the fumes fall back into the container. This massive explosion splits the can in two, picks up the child and then launches me 20 feet against the far side of the garage. So that's the starting point of this tragic story.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then you were rushed to the hospital. Your parents weren't home right at that time, which is pretty crazy, and your siblings managed to help in the way that they could, which is also really remarkable. And then what happened? When you got to the hospital, you thought you were really in trouble because you burned your house down and things were just. You were really scared to what your parents were going to say and all that. And what happened after that?
Speaker 2:I mean, we just danced like through like 50 miracles. So my brother, jim, who had done nothing heroic in his life, saves my life in mighty ways. My sister, amy, who was only 11, wearing a nightgown, comes outside, sees that I'm in the front yard, burned up, clothes off, skin missing, and it's the kind of site today that I would have run from. And this little 11 year old preteen comes over to me and puts her arms around me and just holds me and she just keeps saying everything's okay, have faith and fight, the best is yet to come. Things okay, have faith and fight, the best is yet to come. And as she's saying this, dude, I'm like looking at my body, it's, it's broken, speck. I like no clothes on, no skin on. So I'm in pain in more ways than physical. I look up and I see my home and it's got some flames leaping out of the roof. So now there's pain around that and so there's just so much pain right now. And I look back at her and said, amy, it's not okay, do me a favor, like just go back in the house and get me a knife. I'm not going to be okay, we should just finish this. And this little girl just holds me even tighter and says shut up. Great response. Shut up. What is wrong with you? She said have faith and fight. The best is yet to come. And overhearing this was my seven-year-old sister, so this is like a true child.
Speaker 2:In scripture there's one of my favorite quotes is no greater love is there than this, than to lay down your life for one's friends? Yeah, this little girl is preparing to live that out. She goes back into a burning house. She returns safely with a cup of water. She throws it right into my face. She turns and runs right back into that burning house and does it a second time and then she turns one more time, goes into a burning house, risking her life for her brother.
Speaker 2:I was back outside throwing three cups of water right into my face, and the reason that story matters is not only about love but, as you mentioned in the intro, like I'm burned on my entire body 87% was third degree the part of my body that is not is my face. So not only do you and I have this conversation and you can see my nose and face and I can see yours. That's lovely, but all of the skin from my entire body came from my scalp, and the physicians credit her with cooling the temperature of the body enough that they were able to harvest skin from my scalp and then, slowly over the next five months, pieced me back together. So her love was not only like how sweet, she got you water, she saved my life. As we go through this story, like you'll just hear, like it's just a love story. It's how God uses ordinary people to remind them when they let go of themselves and fight for the one in front of them, they can be used for mighty purposes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is one of the things that was really highlighted in your story is what I call silent superheroes, and to me, my definition of silent superheroes are people who become like our guides. They come alongside and they do something kind for us without ever expecting anything in return. And you had, besides your mom and your family and your sister and your brother, you had two extraordinary superheroes, silent superheroes Nurse Roy and Jack Buck. Tell us about them, because they I mean, I was tearing up reading about them, watching about them, and you know one of I was tearing up reading about them, watching about them, and you know one of them I already knew. So it was like it's such a beautiful reminder of how one person can make such an incredible impact by doing a small gesture of kindness.
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Speaker 2:So I guess we'll start with Jack Buck. And it's like a crazy story and yet the next one's even better. So I got for it. Jack Buck is a radio announcer. He's a hall of famer. He's in seven different hall of fames, including baseball and football and TV and radio, like this unknown commodity in particular. Back in the eighties, when I was a kid and I grew up outside of St Louis, I was a huge Cardinal fan, so I knew the voice of Jack Buck well because he brings to life St Louis Cardinals baseball.
Speaker 2:When I was first brought into the hospitals my eyes were swollen shut and it remained like that for a couple months and I was unable to move and rapped from head to toe with bandages and eventually trached so I could not speak anymore. But I could dream, I could pray and I could listen. So I'm hanging out. The night I was burned. The door opens up, I hear footsteps walk in, a chair comes across the floor, somebody does one of these things, and then I hear the voice say kid, wake up, you are going to live. Keep fighting, john O'Leary Day at the Ballpark will make it all worthwhile. Keep fighting. And then he stands, he walks out and he leaves a child in a hospital bed dying but completely restored. You talk about silent superheroes.
Speaker 2:This guy came in one time for eight seconds eight seconds and, I think, changed my life from the inside out. When he left the room I learned this later on he leaned his head against a glass door and just started weeping. Of course we all know his great weakness among the male culture. Right and short of the verse in scripture is Jesus wept. So Jack is a Purple Heart recipient from World War II Like this is not a weak person. This is a very strong, loving, faithful man who served. His heart was stirred, he wept and now someone comes to comfort him. She kneels down and looks up and says Mr Buck, are you all right? We can't lose you. And he says I'm not sure that that little boy in 406 won't make it, Willie. And the nurse says there's absolutely not a chance.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And when this news shows up, what we do next informs what happens next. You know, I think we should pray, but we should move our feet. What Jack does is he takes it home, cries, prays journals and then the following day he comes back, visits this little dying child and says kid, wake up, I'm back, you are going to live. Keep fighting. John O'Leary Day at the Ballpark will make it all worthwhile and you know this. I think you've read the book. It shows up in the film like this guy just keeps coming back into my life over the next five months encouraging a hopeless child to fight forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially when you at that point, what was going through your mind? Because you're, jack coming in, he inserted a little bit of hope into your being. But what was going through your mind, like what were you thinking?
Speaker 2:Well, a couple of things. One before Jack walked in, my mom walked out, and this is now hours earlier. But when I first was brought into the emergency room, eventually my mother shows up. I ask her am I going to die? And, as any good mother should say, they should respond no, you're not going to die, you'll be fine, we'll get you out of here this afternoon. That's what good moms do.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I was not raised by a good mom. I was raised by mine, thank God. Because she looked at me and says do you want to? It's your choice, john, it's not mine, yeah. And I said, mom, I don't want to die, gosh, I want to live. And then she responds good, then look at me, take the hand of God, walk the journey with him. And you fight like you never fought before. Your daddy and I will be with you. You're not alone, but do your part, fight.
Speaker 2:And so when she left me with that challenge, it never occurred to me again that I would die. You know, like it just never crossed my mind. So I knew I would. I knew I would pull through. I knew God was walking with me. I knew I'd be all right in the end.
Speaker 2:But even with that certainty. There are moments of doubt and despair and struggle and agony. And this little boy, that little child man I dealt with a lot of that during that time and so when Jack came in that first time, that's where I was. I was just, I was just struggling, obviously for good reason, and once he walked out, I was renewed with hope again. It's amazing that you know this what happens when you have a big old goal to look forward to and a friend that will walk with you toward it and then celebrate the accomplishment with you. So it's not like a trophy you put in your case and you sit and you look at by yourself. It was like this wonderful journey we were on together and every single time he came back in my guide, my friends, my silent angel just kept showing up and serving me and I think he provided perfect hope when I needed that most.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful. And then you had Nurse Roy, which was also just an amazing silent superhero.
Speaker 2:You know, what's crazy about him is I spoke to him last night on the phone for 95 minutes. Really I have spoken to my wife for 95 minutes since the honeymoon like I mean 95 minutes on a phone call. Who does that? He is. He is so humble and cool and loving and tender and just like a servant-hearted guy. So we my wife kept peeking in on me last night like still talking. I'm like we're rolling. Babe. Roy is awesome even today.
Speaker 2:Back 37 years ago, when I was first introduced to him, he walked into my room. He was responsible for my bandage changes and what that means. And you mentioned the picture and there's like a couple of pictures that float around the line. One is of the photo of me in the emergency room and it just looks like a morgue shot. There's even like a piece of paper over John's chest that says like day one post burn. It's horrible, and yet that's where it starts. That's the beginning of the journey. Then there's a few pictures that are taken two months into recovery and when you see them they're even worse somehow, because as the body heals, it first needs to be broken down before it's built back up again. It's agonizing and it's Roy and his team's responsibility to help break it down, keep it clean, put on the dressing treatment and then wrap it. It's a two hour treatment process, two hours of torture, and so it's bad enough as it is.
Speaker 2:But this man used to walk into my room. He would pick me up in his arms. He would then drag me back toward the bandage chain so I had no muscle mass on my legs. He would drag me back and say to me boy, you are going to walk again. You got that. You might as well move your feet, because today you walk and I'll walk with you Really drags me back.
Speaker 2:And the first time he says that I hate him. And then he comes in the following day and I hate him and I hate him. And he does this for five months and I hated him every step along the way. But when I was eventually well enough to go back to the hospital and visit my old heroes, my old friends, my old staff and nurses, the first person I put my arms around was Nurse Roy. As I walked over to him I recognized, even as a child, I was walking because of his love and his vision and his guidance. So yeah, man, he did his bandage changes well. He loved me well. He led the team well. But, similar to Jack Buck, he was casting a vision that this is not how the story ends. And and you're not alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so beautiful. And for those listening, just and this is just a reminder that, um, it takes one person to make an impact right, and your kindness, the love that you give, the what you notice about other people and how you can come alongside someone along their journey or whatever it is that they're walking through. You may not know the impact of that small act of kindness in the moment, just like nurse roy actually didn't know how much he impacted you until way later, which we won't really spoil yet, so you'll have to watch the movie have you seen the movie speca?
Speaker 2:I have yeah oh my gosh, so I didn't know. So that's, that's limited release right now on there yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we won't give them all the spoilers, but essentially, we all have the ability to make an impact. You know, no matter the resources you have and whatnot is, we can make an impact on someone's life, and it doesn't have to be big. You could be the silent superhero in someone's life and make an impact, just like Nurse Roy did by just coming alongside you.
Speaker 2:John, and so when I go ahead, go for it. When I saw the honor of being part of the production team that brought this film to life and part of my job was to think through what actors should play these heroes, and when I so, I reached out to all of them Like I'm not a I'm not a Hollywood guy, so like, break the law, man, let's go Ask for forgiveness later on. Yeah, I've reached out to like William H Macy, who William H Macy is a pretty big name actor and he plays Jack Buck in this movie. And I said to him in the film and in the video I sent him hey, bill, you're going to play this guy and I need you to know you are the hero of this film and like to join us. And then I sent a message similar like that to John Corbett from Sex and the City and my Big Fat Greek Wedding and Northern Exposure and all these shows. Man John's another great guy, but I'm like you play my dad, you're my hero. But not only that as the film progresses, you are the hero of this film. And I said that same message to the lady who plays my mom, stephanie Shostak, in Iron man and A Million Little Things. And then the guy, the woman who plays my wife, macy McLean, beautiful girl, and I'm like you see, beauty where no one else could even look twice Like you are the hero of this film, macy, join us. But to Joel Courtney, who plays me, I'm like hey, joel, good news, bad news. Dude, the movie is about heroes. You ain't one of them, man. You play some kid named John O'Leary and about the only thing he does is he blows up a can of gasoline. That's what he did.
Speaker 2:And then the rest of the film is about these individuals who show up for you where you don't see any value at all in your life. And I'm like and if that's the kind of guy you want to play, at the very end you'll figure it out, I hope, and maybe then you'll recognize the value of your life. So all that to say. The poster when they designed the poster for the movie, it's a picture not of Joel Courtney's good side. He is a handsome guy, but it's not his good side, it's his bad side man. His back is turned to the camera, his arms are in the air, he's celebrating life, but it's actually all a mosaic of all the individuals within the film. The reason why that matters. It goes back to what you just said.
Speaker 2:You don't need to be a Hall of Fame radio announcer or podcast host, becca, to change the world. You don't need to be on the front line in a burn ward to change the world. You don't need to be a father with six kids and one of them gets burned. To change the world, you've got to be willing to say yes to using the gifts that God has given you freely to serve the one in front of you. That's it.
Speaker 2:And so this film you know, right now, as you and I are discussing life Superman is the number one film in the country.
Speaker 2:I'm like good man, I like Superman too, but Hollywood does a great job of putting in front of us heroes with capes and blue tights and red underpants, and what I think real life is about is celebrating actual heroes, yeah, and actual love and actual heartache and actual faithfulness and actual tragedy redeemed, and that's what we're so excited about Soul on Fire.
Speaker 2:And so you know, hollywood's a democracy If you want to vote, they will follow you into the next theater and the next one, and the next one. So right now we're voting with hey. We want more native fiction to make our struggles go away? What if we gave them? What if we voted instead to say you know what we want more of our life? To remind that we are not alone, that our brokenness can be redeemed, that God is still God and that the best is yet to come, that my life can be used for good. So I just encourage folks to vote man, to show up at the theater, check out Soul on Fire, walk out inspired and encouraged. But in addition to that, they will be paying attention and they will create more of what we say we want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good. So, yeah, the movie is truly moving. I really encourage you guys to go out there and see it. In your book on fire, you mentioned to how the individuals who attain the highest form of achievement in life don't sprint towards success, but significance. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?
Speaker 2:Well, I was told this would not be like a tough interview. I thought this would be all layups, and so now you're like on page 188 on Soul on Fire.
Speaker 2:We're going to go to commercial right now, people Come back Okay. So success, undoubtedly that's what the world is pursuing. And the world is not maybe your world or your neighbor or the person listening, but for the most part, the world wants success. We want the nicest car, we want the nicest house, we want the most followers, we want the greatest income, we want our kids to go to the right schools, in no small part because we want to be perceived as being people who are successful, right. And then there's significance, and these guys are not mutually exclusive. They can play together.
Speaker 2:I think that's how they should, and I, like I love success, but not at the cost of significance. So I would encourage our friends to pursue significance. Pursue becoming the best version of yourself in order to impact the ones in front of you. Pursue, make it a mighty difference, not to have the bigger house or the exp kitchen, but so that, in becoming even better, you can do an even better job of serving the patient, or your spouse, or your children or my father had Parkinson's disease for 30 years or your dad, whatever it might be. Become better, not for you, it's not an in and of itself. It's so that you can be used for good in the lives of others, and when you do that enough over time, you also become successful. So it's easy to pursue the trophies, but I would rather have them be the tale of significance.
Speaker 1:That is so good. I really, really love that. In your story you have obviously you overcame something really difficult. How did you choose not to be a victim of the circumstance? Instead, you became the victor. How do we choose?
Speaker 2:Right. Well, it's a daily thing. I mean I had to choose again this morning. I look at myself. You mentioned the pictures. The pictures aren't much better today than they were 37 years ago when they took them. I'm still a burn survivor. I still have scars from my neck to my toes and, if I choose, I'm still a victim. So how do you not? How do you choose differently?
Speaker 2:And awareness is the first step in any movement forward. Like be aware of what you're thinking, of, how you're showing up, because most people aren't even aware. You just yell at the cashier because they forgot your cream. You've every. I mean, how could she forget the cream? I told her twice cream. And we're just not fully aware of how we're showing up.
Speaker 2:Where I first got a whisper of awareness was when I was 10. I was a little boy in a wheelchair and my dad, who I smile thinking about. He's now in heaven. But my dad was talking to me about going back to school the next day and I'm like dad, don't make me go, man. Like all these kids are going to make fun of me. You know my fingers are missing and I'm in the wheelchair still and I got scars and some bandages. And he's like you're going. And then I kept saying why me dad Like, why did I get burned? Why? Why this tragedy in my life? Why me? And there was a moment where he paused after trying to answer 11 times and finally my sweet dad stood, he walked over to the door and shut it.
Speaker 2:And then, rebecca, he walks back over to me. He kneeled in front of me, he put his hands on my thighs and said John, dang it. And he used a different word why not you? Why not you? He said this terrible thing has happened in your life and if you want to be a victim to it for the rest of your life, have at it. No one will ever blame you. You've been through the worst.
Speaker 2:And then he goes, or you can be a victor, and every room we roll you into, or maybe one day you walk into people will look up in astonishment at all that you've overcome in the life you're leading today. And then he said, john, victim or victor, your choice, not mine. Leans forward, kisses me on the forehead, stands up, walks out, shuts the door and there's a 10 year old boy in a wheelchair, missing his fingers, missing his old life, wrestling with. Which way will I go and if I'm being honest with you, like, why not? I still wrestle with it and it's not like it's a morning thing and then you got to ride, it's like it's a moment by moment by moment thing. How will you show up in this moment and now in this one, and now in this one?
Speaker 2:And what I found in my life is, the more I decide to show up as a victim, the more I become that and the more that collateral damage starts showing up, not only in my life but in the lives of those I love and the dreams that I'm casting for me and for them. And the more I show up as a victor, ready to serve and love the one in front of me, including the reflection in the mirror, the more there's this radical benefit. I don't believe in the secret. There was a big movement 20 years ago about the secret. I don't think there's a secret. The secret is seek justice, love, mercy, walk humbly with God, cast big visions, walk forward. When you fall, pick yourself back up, help people around you, learn from your mistakes, keep moving forward. Just be in the embodiment of love in a marketplace longing for it. That's not a secret, it's work and it's faith and it's a choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so beautiful. And at the same time, I've heard you say in different interviews and people ask you this question a lot and they say, john, if you can go back in time, would you change what happened to you? Your answer is no. So can you tell us why you choose? No, even though you just described how, every day, you wrestle with OK. How am I showing up? Am I showing up as a victor or a victim? You wrestle with okay. How am I showing up?
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Speaker 2:So today we're recording our fourth podcast and there's a little boy who came in earlier. I won't share much of the details of his life, but he has had a profoundly difficult life. He's 11. And he reached out to me randomly and said Mr John, can I do a podcast interview with you? And I don't know his platform, but guess what? I wasn't kicking the tires on it, I didn't care because I know his backstory and I said brother, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So he comes in, has a little sheet of questions in front of him. We roll through things like favorite kind of dog, favorite car, I mean, and some deeper questions, favorite scene from the film Biggest struggle you faced as a child, like real questions too. And then it wraps and his mom says you know it's his birthday today, but he wanted to share it with you. So I'm thinking here's this little dude who's been through struggles I can't fathom and his adoptive parents. That's part of the story, just a little part of it. His adoptive parents had brought him in to do a podcast with Mr John on his birthday. Why begin answering your question with that? Because what allows me to connect with a person who struggles with things I'll never fully understand is the fact that I struggle with things he may never fully understand either. And yet, in the very risk to struggle with it faithfully, we can bond over something that actually unites us. There's an old theologian quote, and I forget who wrote it but what is most private and personal, most universal and sacred. So you shared with me part of your story and I don't feel like I have permission to share that on this podcast because I don't know if you have. But you have your own wild story generationally. And yet in sharing that with me, so personal, so private I have nothing to do with that wild story. It bonded us because it also became personal and private to me. It's universal now and I, on the other hand, did burn as a kid, grew up in the Midwest. All this, none of it, has anything to do with you and yet in sharing it boldly, boom, we unite.
Speaker 2:And what has happened and I think societally is we are willing to very quickly judge those who are broken. No one candidly, no one does it better than christians. Read the headlines in particular. As you and I recorded this from last weekend at the cold point concert man, I mean we are quick to jump on that bandwagon and judge those, those people, is it's popular. I find, though, that when brokenness can be redeemed and shared, it unifies, it changes, it redeems, it elevates. It draws us not only together but forward into the kingdom, and the more we go through life looking down at others or hiding our own scars, the more it will be impossible for us to love the one in front of us. Well, we are called to meet people at the well not in church, not in the synagogue, not who look and act and vote and worship just like you. We're called to meet least among us, where they are, and put our arm around them, and part of brokenness allows us to do that and to be impactful in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in that, and to be um, to be impactful in that yeah, so in that, and sharing that that is your answer to why you wouldn't change it.
Speaker 2:I hope I mean I listen to it. I feel like I wake up every day in pain and I hate being stared at. I really do, I don't. I don't. I don't like being recognized now as an author, speaker. But when I said that I I don't like being stared at as being less than I don't like being seen as having my fingers missing. I don't like kids saying mom, what happened to him? And then a mom saying don't stare.
Speaker 2:I have a Monday morning motivation that comes up in two weeks where I write about a recent experience where a lady paying for something, she pulls back her hand and could not move again and she gasped my gosh. When I'm just trying to pay for a little something at a register and she froze, and then I froze and then the line built and like it just awkward tension. And yet even these moments, man, are filled with moments of grace. So instead of apologizing for how I show for the difference in my physical appearance, I try to use that as a chance to draw people forward together in life. And if you do that well over time, it's transformational not only for the cashier but for you. And if then you and I do that as a cashier in person, what can we do? What?
Speaker 1:can we do? Yeah Well, your story is truly, truly inspiring. I mean just seeing you get up again and again and continue to inspire people, whether it's through your speeches, your books and the upcoming movie. What would you say to someone who feels really stuck various situations, but just feels like they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel? They are just in a really bad situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I spent three years as a hospital chaplain and what I learned on questions like this is pretty much almost always just to sit in the silence with people. So you would think John O'Leary, the motivational speaker and inspirational films like. What I've learned in moments like this is the power of presence and the power of, like my sister said to me 37 years ago, john shut up, so I would give almost no advice. If you tell me right now, john, the person I'm asking that question for is me, I would just sit with you, I'd party with you and, yeah, I would just sit with you and not say much and when it came down to it, I might ask you a question or two and a question or two. But I think there's power in just being present with someone, someone else. I would try, through that presence, to remind you, whoever that you is, that you're not alone.
Speaker 2:Um, eventually I might ask you some questions about the struggle, about what's going on, maybe what to it, what your hope is in the midst of it. I would ask you who else is in the midst of this thing with you. I would probably challenge you to not try to do this thing alone. I would beg you to lean into community. You have to. You cannot get through struggle on your own. I would implore you to seek faith. I would encourage you to read the word and to recognize that you are enduring your struggle.
Speaker 2:Find for me one saint from scripture who also did not. I can't. I, you know, I mean my God is crucified on a cross, like that's about as stuck as you get, and yet we celebrate it. It's the craziest thing. If you really unpack it. It's just a wild thing. Like why would you celebrate the worst? And yet, from being stuck, from being in darkness, from being ignored, from being betrayed, from being beaten and murdered, we celebrate life, and that's true in that specific story of Jesus. But follow through all the followers but you came behind him and all those who spoke about his coming. It's story after story of individuals who are stuck and did not give up on it. They did not give up on it. So, as I hugged you goodbye after four hours of sitting with you and a couple hours then of talking with you, I would then say trust me, god is working through this thing. He's worked in my life and I know he's working in yours.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so beautiful. And yeah, I think that that is so right on, because when someone's grieving or going through something, just being there, just silently sitting with them in their pain, is the greatest gift, right, the presence. And they say that loneliness is worse for you than smoking 15 cigarettes a day. A pack of 15 cigarettes a day, and so, in, over 50% of the population feels lonely. Wow, and so that is a gift of presence, right, there's nothing greater than just being present, especially in someone's pain.
Speaker 2:And just to then say so what do you do about that If you are one of the 50 percenters? Because apparently that's the number and that's a big one. John, I don't have any friends. I don't have you. Good for you, man. You had a mom and a dad at the end of the table and the golden retriever. I did not have that. I don't have that what I have. So I'm active in an organization called Big Brothers, big Sisters.
Speaker 1:I love that one.
Speaker 2:You said that again.
Speaker 1:I said I love that one. Yeah, I was active in that as well, before we moved.
Speaker 2:yeah, hey, you know what it's in your community. It's in almost every community and if not them one that looks and smells a lot like it. A chance for a person to come into the life of another, to pick them up, take them out for ice cream, laugh and hang and shoot baskets and drop them back off and say I'll see you in a couple of weeks and do it again. We did this once. We graduated a child out. He became a pastor. By God's grace, we're now with another one. Every time that kid gets out of my car, he says the words John, I love you.
Speaker 2:For the listeners, I'm a white man of profound blessings. Pick him up in a nice car. This is a little boy who lives in the city, he's black, he knows his dad only because he sees him in the summertime and that's it. And yet these people who are different have found a place where they can love each other, where I find meaning in him and he finds meaning back with me, and it fills my bucket of not being lonely.
Speaker 2:There's opportunities replete within our communities to be of service to others. There's soup kitchens and pantries and places to work and serve and impact. And so if you are part of the 50 percenters and you're like dude, I got no one. Then I say you've got a phone, use it, find an organization of where you can be put to work and you will leave after day one with a friend. If you stick around long enough, you're going to make a whole lot of friends. And you stick around long enough, you will begin leaving that job, leaving that mission, with the words hey, thanks for coming today, I love you. So stop smoking and stop hanging out in life all by yourself. It's too good to do it all by yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's powerful. Thank you for that. I want to honor your time and wrap up with the last questions, which are what are three pivotal books in your life, throughout your life? Just three books that stand out, that you were like wow, after reading that it sparked something.
Speaker 2:So, probably in order, I read a book when I was like young. Well, I'll celebrate first my mom and dad's book. It's called Overwhelming Odds. Not going to find it in libraries, it's not a huge run, but I bumped into it and it changed my life. It's the story, the unauthorized story, of their little boy getting burned and what came out of that. And when they wrote that book it was because they saw their boy with this goofy grin on an altar and they saw next to their boy their older boy, jim, and they saw next to the older boy four or five other groomsmen. And then they turned around and they saw this brunette walking toward them and they saw this gorgeous girl take their son's hand and they eventually utter the words I do and eventually kissed him and turned around and together they walked down the aisle. And so they'd always wondered what will become of this born little boy's life. And on that day they got their answer and they wrote about it. And it's just this beautiful story of little baby miracle upon little baby miracle. So that began opening my eyes to the miracle of my life.
Speaker 2:Oddly, I wrote a book a couple of years after that, called the Alchemist, by Paulo Calo, from, maybe Brazil or somewhere in South America. And it's ultimately the story of a boy who doesn't see value in his life and goes on this journey and he's trying to figure out where he can find great wealth and worth. And I won't even tell you how it ends, but he eventually discovers where that value is and it's worth reading. It's a little work of fiction but it's good. And then a book that moved me so much I actually put the picture of it up on my wall. It's by Henry Nouwen, I think.
Speaker 2:He's an old Jesuit priest from Norway or something, and he wrote a book called the Return of the Prodigal Son. And he found himself in Russia, at St Petersburg, in a beautiful museum looking up at a Rembrandt. And it was this massive six foot picture that Rembrandt had painted. And what made it so remarkable? Two things. Number one is he painted it as the second to last painting of his career. But it's the second time he painted it. The first time he painted the prodigal son. It's just kind of this jovial picture of a son having a lot of fun and no one cares about that one.
Speaker 2:And then there's this one that hangs in this Russian museum and it's the father now with a very dainty left hand and a very masculine right hand pulling the slave child in. The slave child is missing one left foot. The right foot is kind of like battered. He's bald. It's not a poverty in slavery. Clothes are draped.
Speaker 2:There's an older son with his hands clenched, judging. You know, that's how we like to judge those who don't do life as well as we do. The older son is judging the return of the prodigal son and in the book it's Henry Nouwen saying to us well, first of all, rembrandt was able to paint this because he lost his marriage, he lost two children, he lost his wealth, he lost his status. He recognized what mattered in life. He returned to one of the most his status. He recognized what mattered in life. He returned to one of the most important things he tried to paint and he finally figured out how to do a masterpiece. Boom, now it's up there forever. So that's cool.
Speaker 2:But the other thing he's showing is we are called in various stages of life not only to recognize. We can be judgmental and we can be broken, but we're called to be this father and the father's not masculine, even though we call him dad. It's this perfect blend of the feminine and the masculine coming together and pulling the one in front of us in tight, no judgment, tons of grace, tons of mercy, tons of love. And so I look at this picture almost every day before I start work and definitely every day before I leave it, because when I get home, that's what I want my kids to see.
Speaker 2:My hands don't look like either of those hands, and my beard's not quite as long as that old guy's beard, and I very rarely wear a red cloak, but I want my kids to see in their father this embodiment of come on, I don't care what you did, there will be, there will be time for correction. Right there, there is, but right now this is about. This is about love. You know, my son was gone and now he's back. He was dead and now he's alive. What a great way to go through life. And so the return of the prodigal son by Henry Nowen.
Speaker 1:Amazing. That's so beautiful. What is the best advice that someone else gave you?
Speaker 2:She never gave it to me, but she modeled it and she put it up on our refrigerator. As kids and it was my mother she had an old sign that said this too shall pass.
Speaker 1:I love that one. An old sign that said this too shall pass. I love that one.
Speaker 2:And when she put that up, she was a house, mom of six kids and dogs and husband going off to work in a tie suit fancy, successful guy, beautiful home, great community. But it was a reminder to her husband, herself and her kids don't blink, don't wish it away, don't assume that you have this tomorrow, because this too shall pass. So when she lost her house, when her son was burned, when we dealt with other struggles in the family that I don't have permission to share, it was a reminder to her that this also shall pass. When her husband was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease and got sick, when he lost his job and came home, when they had a second house fire and lost everything a second time, including that sign it was still now tattooed, not just on the fridge but on her heart this too shall pass. This too shall pass.
Speaker 2:And so for me Sebekka you know you and I are here talking about a film and like that to me that's about as high watermark as you're going to get in life when there's a film coming out about your life. But to remain radically humble I know that sign is true. This too shall pass. So I'm grateful that my mom is still alive. I'm profoundly grateful I've got four babies who are healthy, who love their parents. I'm deeply grateful that some girl who is way outside of my pay grade said I do 21 years ago. I'm grateful to do the work I do. I'm grateful that folks like you reach out and say well, you sit with me for a little bit and have a podcast, and I'm grateful that God saw within his graciousness to redeem the story and to use it to remind other people that they have one life.
Speaker 1:Makers matter. That's beautiful. Is there anything I haven't asked you or?
Speaker 2:anything else you'd like to share or close. I mean, my favorite car has already been asked today by a previous podcast guest. Our host favorite color was already asked those deep questions from my 11 year old host, final. Here's what I would say, man, like I always share my information, like, if you're struggling, I was there too, and so if you're like John, I got no one, you have me now. So my website's johnolieryinspirescom, johnolieryinspirescom, and on that little website you'll see our phone number, you'll see my email, you'll see our social media links, you'll see links, of course, to our work, and you'll see a friend who I can't be everywhere, but I can love you where I am, I can pray with you, I can support you through, sometimes, videos or books or whatever you may need. So maybe that's what I would say, john, how do people stay in touch? And go to my website and I will sit with you, john alirianspirescom.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's been just an honor, and even our 12-minute conversation prior to this just had me nearly in tears. Thank you for encouraging me and just sharing your story. I know it's going to really encourage people listening. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, let me know when your book comes out, because I know a friend who wants to have you on his podcast.
Speaker 1:Okay, sounds good, thank you. Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to tell your friends. Leave us a reviewer rating and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, zvekapopovcom.