THE ONES WHO DARED
THE ONES WHO DARED PODCAST Elevating stories of courage. You can listen to some of the most interesting stories of courage, powerful life lessons, and aha moments. Featuring interviews with leaders, pioneers and people who have done hard things. I hope these stories help pave the path for you to live out your courageous life.
THE ONES WHO DARED
What If I'm Wrong? Navigating Fear and Disappointment | Dr. Heather Thompson Day
What happens when your life looks nothing like the dream you had in mind?
In this episode, Dr. Heather Thompson Day joins us to discuss her latest book "What If I'm Wrong? Navigating the Waves of Fear and Failure" and shares powerful insights about handling disappointment when life doesn't go according to plan. Through vulnerable stories and practical wisdom, she reveals how recognizing we're part of a larger generational story can transform our perspective on success and failure.
Dr. Heather Thompson Day is an interdenominational speaker, ECPA bestseller, and former communication professor with over a decade of experience teaching both undergraduate and graduate students in public speaking, persuasion, and social media.
A gifted communicator, Heather has contributed to Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Newsweek, and the Barna Group. Her writing has appeared on The Today Show, the National Communication Association outlets, and she’s been interviewed by outlets like BBC Radio Live and The Wall Street Journal
• Understanding true passion in the Latin word "passio" means "to suffer" passion is what we can't stop doing despite lack of affirmation.
• How a text from Heather's mom completely shifted her perspective on her father's legacy
• Discovering that our individual stories are part of a larger generational narrative
• Finding value in present moments and everyday interactions
• The importance of showing up with integrity when no one is watching
• How slowing down actually helps you "get there quicker"
Link to Dr. Heather Thompson Day:
www.heatherthompsonday.com
-Links-
https://www.svetkapopov.com/
https://www.instagram.com/svetka_popov/
Welcome to the Once a Day Podcast. I'm your host, Becca, and I have a treat for you today. If you have ever felt discouraged, disappointed in life, just didn't quite go as you intended it to go, then this episode is for you. Dr Heather Thompson Day is our guest, and she is an author, a speaker and a communication professor, and we discussed her latest book, called what If I'm Wrong. What I love about Heather is that she's really honest in sharing her own personal journeys of struggling with doubts, disappointments, dreams that are shelved, and how easy it is to get stuck when life doesn't turn out quite how we imagined it. And so you guys are going to learn so much. You're going to be so encouraged. If you've ever wrestled with your faith, if you've ever felt left behind, or if you wondered if you missed your moment, I'm telling you this is a conversation you want to tune into. So tune in, enjoy and be encouraged. Hey friends, welcome to the Ones who Dared podcast, where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, Becca, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here, Dr Heather Thompson Day.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Once a Day podcast. My honor to be here with you. It is such a joy for me to have this conversation with you. There's so much that I want to dive into from your book. Your new book called what If I'm Wrong Navigating the Waves of Fear and Failure, and it touches on various topics that really light up my heart, such as multi-generational stories from people who have listened to my podcast know that I'm really passionate about just the multi-generational aspects how the past generations have forced and done things that propel us into our stories as well. Yes, you also touch on passion, which is what is the Latin word for passion? What does it mean?
Speaker 2:Oh, it means to suffer. Passio, it means to suffer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that and that is. That's a topic that is like we are in this beautiful big story of the human story of we all are. You know, all of us suffer in some form. Right, yeah, and so your topic of navigating fears and disappointments is is just yeah. So I'm just so thrilled to have this conversation with you and I love the title of your book what If I'm Wrong? What a powerful title, because I think we all struggle with that. We all struggle with disappointments. So, before we dive into your book, can you?
Speaker 1:give us a little backstory of Dr Heather and why this book and why now.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, backstory is I taught communication for almost 15 years. I always say that when I try to describe my personality, I'm both forever a teacher and forever a student. I love curiosity and learning, and so that's really marked kind of my own journey. And so what if I'm wrong? Honestly, it kind of fits with all of that, because I've always felt this calling, if you will, towards writing. For me, that's the passion that I'm talking about in the book and realizing, you know, struggling with was I wrong? You know I didn't understand when I started this journey that passion means to suffer, and so, for me, passion is what I was doing for accolades, open doors, affirmation and resources. But what happens when I don't receive any of those things?
Speaker 2:And I didn't realize that that's actually where passion starts. So passion is not what we are doing because of affirmation, open doors, accolades and resources. It's what we can't stop doing despite not having any of those things. It is that willingness to keep suffering for and through this thing that makes it our passion. And I didn't understand that. But in my communication, research, like words, mean things, and so for me, I always like to understand the meaning of the words that I'm using, because it changes my relationship with that thing or relationship with that word. And so, yeah, I wrote the book because I went through like a three to four year period of uncertainty and darkness and really saying to myself over, like, was I wrong about these things that I thought were supposed to happen in my life, or this vision that I've always had for my life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's powerful, and in this story too, you talk about how a conversation that you had with your mom. So I'd love for you to set up the story for us of how that came about and where this disappointment came from. Like we are wrestling with disappointment and what you thought should have could have been looked a lot different than you expected it to be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there were a lot of financial pressures happening at this time that I'm writing this book. But a big emotional and spiritual pressure for me, or breaking point tension in my life, was my dad being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Now he had got. He was diagnosed with Alzheimer's I think, when I was 25. So many years prior. But at this time is when he's really deteriorating.
Speaker 2:And my dad was just, you know, the most passionate, and I mean that in every sense of that actual literal translation of that word. He knew what he was called to do and he always pursued it with great passion. He was willing to suffer for and through. He was in Broadway, he was in Jesus Christ Superstar, he was in Hair, he had a very successful career, ended up leaving that to go into ministry for a variety of reasons and I would say in ministry never received I mean had successful projects, but every penny he made always went back into the ministry. And so you know he has Alzheimer's and anybody who knows what it feels like to love somebody deeply who is terminally ill or needs assisted living or nursing home care, these things are very, very expensive. It can be upwards of $10,000 a month, and so we're trying to calculate how in the world we can afford nursing home care for the person that we love the most, which is a very sick feeling that it puts you in.
Speaker 2:And I just remember having this moment of frustration with God, honestly, and texting my mom and saying it feels like dad has given his whole life to ministry and to God and to his passion and he has nothing to show for it.
Speaker 2:And my mom texts me back 59 minutes later, though her read receipt said she had read it immediately, so it took her 59 minutes to decide what she would say back to me, and she sent me back a message that said he has you to show for it. So I think you're wrong, and that was a moment for me. It's actually gonna make me cry even. That was a moment for me where I just realized everything that I'm experiencing in this world is so much bigger than my one singular life and I am a part of an unfold like this human unfolding story that is so much bigger than my tiny piece in it. Yeah, right, and so is it possible that even right now, as you and I are sitting here talking, is it possible that we are accessing the answered prayers that our great, great, great, great grandmothers prayed. Is that possible?
Speaker 1:Wow yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know for a fact that I am living in prayers that my dad prayed and I'm watching my daughter also live in prayers that God didn't answer in my life, but I'm seeing Him answer them. So it just made me realize, oh, my goodness, I'm a part of this much bigger thing than I realized, and that perspective just started making me ask myself what else could I be getting wrong about how I'm seeing my life, or how I'm seeing success, or how I'm seeing failure? What could I be getting wrong?
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's so powerful. Yeah, because I think that the world measures success by. You know there's certain metrics, right? You know, did you make the New York Times bestseller list? Did you accomplish this? You know what are your followers, what you know. If, with your dad, it's like, did he reach this level of ministry, or reach that amount of people, or X, y and Z? You know how many churches did he build, or whatever? It is right, and those all can be great, and I do believe that, yes, you can use your influence for good, and if you have bigger influence, you can make a greater impact in certain ways, in certain ways. At the same time, we know, though, that the impact that we make and I love my Angela's quote, which is your legacy is every life you touch, right, and so the lives that your dad has touched and the ways that he's impacted people, we still don't know the repercussions and the ripple effect of that, right.
Speaker 2:Let me, let me insert this thought Anybody shows up when everybody's waiting for you. It does not take character and it does not take integrity to turn on a microphone when I have a hundred thousand downloads. That's not hard. It doesn't take character and it doesn't take integrity to write a book when I know it's going to sell a million copies and be on the New York Times list. That's not hard. What is hard is what each of us, I think, are actually doing, like all of us in this messy middle are showing up to our lives every single day and we don't know if anyone cares. That's hard and that takes character and that takes integrity. To pursue your passion when there's no one telling you to yeah, or when you're facing disappointment like if you're getting rejected time and time and time again.
Speaker 1:That's character, yeah, that's integrity. So what do we do in the middle of that failure? What do we do in the middle, in the middle of the messy? Just yeah, yeah. How do we handle that? Or how do we, what do we do when life doesn't go as planned? Martin Luther.
Speaker 2:King Jr. One of his last speeches that he gives, he gives it to a group of seniors. Now, this is during the civil rights movement, and so the world is not their oyster, right? It's like the world is not going to open itself to endless opportunity for them. So what do you say at a graduation? Go, change the world. Like. What do you say to a group of people who everything, the legal system, is literally stacked against you, right? And what he says to them is if all you do when you leave here is be a street sweeper, then here's the call, here's the task. Here's the call, here's the task, here's the vision. I want you to sweep those streets with so much passion and so much intention and so much integrity that all of heaven has to stop and say oh my God, look at this street sweeper.
Speaker 2:And that changed my life, because I started. For me, it was teaching and showing up to a class that maybe sometimes would have five students in it after lunch that didn't want to be there. And I just remember having this mental conversation with myself and saying I'm going to teach this class as if it's the most important thing I'm ever going to do in my entire life, when I get on this call with you, literally the conversation I have is okay, I'm good, this is good morning America. You're going to get on this interview and you're going to do this as if it's the most important thing you will ever do in your entire life, and I have started living my life that I mean down to like. This is going to sound woo woo for some people, but it has changed my life.
Speaker 2:This practice of like even wiping my counters and saying don't rush this. There is something for you in the present, is not your enemy. Don't rush this. There is something for you in the present is not your enemy. Don't rush even this process of just cleaning up after yourself. Living my life in this way, as if every single thing has value in the present moment that I'm in, even my uncertainty, even my discomfort, even my failure and discouragement, there's something for me here. Let this do some work in my heart so that when I go to the next phase, I have fully completed this one Right? So I think that's what we do. We show up to our lives as if it matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm telling you, when you start living that way, what you'll—I just remember this moment Now. I'm talking for a long time, but I had this moment I, when I first had this realization. I go over and I'm teaching at a university. I go over to teach my class. It's after lunch and typically, like I could just tell on their faces, nobody wanted to be there. And in the past, if I walked into a lecture hall and it's like everybody just seems tired, the vibes are off.
Speaker 1:I would just be like you know what.
Speaker 2:Let's just here's the five things you guys need to do, and then let's wrap it up. And I didn't. I just said you know what I'm supposed to be here. I'm going to teach this class as if it's the most important thing I'm ever going to do in my entire life. And so I taught the class and I just remember like they started waking up and we had a great class.
Speaker 2:Afterwards, one of the girls came to my office and she said I just want to thank you, because something you said I don't even remember what it was, to be quite honest, but she said something you said in the lecture today gave me like peace or direction on what I'm supposed to do after graduation. And so I just want to thank you for what you said today. And I just remember when she left I was like huh, what if I had just phoned it in? What if I had just gotten up and said here's the five things. And so I realized I was missing opportunities in my own life to make what you had said earlier, to make a moment for someone else that now they helps them get through the next day in their life or after graduation. We are missing these opportunities because we think it doesn't matter. And I want you to know it matters and you'll start seeing the fruit of how much it matters when you start living as if it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is such a good word because a lot of us I feel like you know, for majority of us there's this thing of like oh, when the next thing happens, then I will X, Y and Z, Like when I get that promotion, when you know, whatever that next thing that you're looking for, when I get married, when I have kids, when this business, that whatever that is that you're looking for or dreaming of, but living in the present, and we can often feel like a failure because you haven't maybe reached that next thing that you're striving for or dreaming for, which is great to have dreams, and I'm all about like, yes, think big, dream big, do big things.
Speaker 1:And yet sometimes it's in the middle of us, feeling like we're a failure, that something beautiful happens. And I want you to share the story that you write in your book about the time that you felt like you were failing, like your new book was coming out, you weren't getting as many sales as possible, and then there was this woman who you called Joe. I would love for you to share that story because, wow, how powerful of an example that is Unbelievable, right.
Speaker 2:So in, so in. I need to preface this by saying the book I had published before that sold I think it was like 5,000 copies in the first week. Right, so, very good sales. The team's going crazy and so I'm thinking we're just going to continue on this escalation. Right, let's go, let's keep it coming. Right, let's put out the next book.
Speaker 2:So I put out my next book, and the first week, I believe, it sold 511 copies. Right, so not I mean barely a dent in the publishing world, and I am just devastated by this. And what I did not know at the time because I think I wouldn't discover this for almost a year later is that one of those 511 copies went to a woman who was deeply impacted by my. She had we had a lot of similarities she had worked in in. As for the government, she was a communication director for actually I don't want to say which state, but for for the attorney general of a state, gotcha and so she had a high level position in politics and communication. Her dad also had been a pastor. My dad had been a pastor, her dad. She moved back home to take care of her dad when he got sick. I also moved back home to take care of my dad when he got sick. She felt all these connections to me in my story and long story short. And actually, when she first started writing me, her family owned a business. Well, in the course of the year that her and I are just like having, I would, I mean not even super deep conversation, just very lighthearted conversation. In the course of that year, her family I had no idea sold their business for multi, multi, multi millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 2:At the same time, I am feeling like a failure. My books are not selling. I'm calculating how much it's going to cost for my dad to go to a nursing home and this woman ends up essentially saying that she feels called to fund my ministry for the next couple of years, writing a very, very large check to my nonprofit. Literally, she covers my salary. The only reason I'm able to sit here right now, not in a classroom, is because this woman, one of the 511 people who read my book, happened to be somebody that felt stirred to help me, and it's just I can't.
Speaker 2:I'm not the same after that experience, and so I'll tell you like even I mean of course I have discouraging things like happening right now, and it just doesn't matter as much to me anymore, cause I realized, like what I see, there is so much that I don't see. I'm telling you at the same time that I am literally looking at my ceiling. I can remember laying in my bed, I can remember saying this, and for me this is a big deal, cause I just remember this moment to the Lord where I said you like you must not be powerful. You must not, because it doesn't make sense to me that I've watched my dad give everything. I'm seeing what I'm going through, god, I try so hard to show up to even wiping my counters, and it just seems like you don't care. Right, you must not be powerful. At the same time that I'm saying this to the Lord, he has this woman's already in my life. I just don't realize who she is?
Speaker 1:You just don't know it yet. He got somebody setting it up behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:The answer to my prayers is already right beside me. I just couldn't see it and I just need it. Whoever's listening? The answer to your prayers could be right beside you and you just have not yet seen it. You keep showing up as if it matters because I'm telling you, eventually the dam breaks, nobody stays in winter forever.
Speaker 1:Nobody.
Speaker 2:Summer is going to come, and who are you going to be when that happens? Right, like, let us become people who show up to our own lives so that, when things do change, our character is built and it's not that like, it's not like this position somehow now makes you, because you knew who you were when no one was there. I really think that's what the world needs is leaders of integrity and character who show up when no one is watching, because everybody does it when people are watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's, it's a lot easier, right, it's just like. But behind the scenes, in, even in that, prior to that woman contacting you, you had a very big disappointment. You were on a really big, well-known podcast that you interviewed and then they didn't air your story. So the rejection and feeling like whoa, like what is wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Like there's something that I don't have, that someone else has, that they're getting on these things but I'm not. And so that the struggle, the internal struggle, and the facing of the disappointment, the rejection and feeling like man, am I not good enough? Am I not? And and that is a real thing that a lot of us struggle with, did I not hit the mark? Am I not? Do I not have what it takes that somebody else has, or X, y and Z? And as you're struggling and through that disappointment, you get this miraculous seed that's like boom, I got you girl, get this miraculous seed.
Speaker 2:that's like boom, I got you girl. Yeah, it's crazy, but I'm telling you I am actually very grateful now because I know who I am. I know who I am and I'm telling you I can honest, hand to heart say right now I don't, like, I just don't care anymore. I don't care. If this book doesn't sell a million copies, I hope great, that'd be wonderful, cause I think it's meaningful. But if it doesn't, that doesn't define who I am. I know who I am without other people affirming or confirming it, and there's just so much. I just think that that is so valuable and I didn't understand how valuable that would be until going through the dark.
Speaker 1:One of the things, too. There's a sentence that really hit me from your book and really resonated with me, where you wrote for many of us, we aren't just born into a family. We're born into a ready, developing story arc. We're all part of a larger story. I'd love for you to speak into that, because whoa, At the Once For A Day podcast, giving back is part of our mission, which is why we proudly sponsor Midwest Food Bank. Here's why Midwest Food Bank Pennsylvania distributes over $25 million worth of food annually completely free of charge to over 200 nonprofit partners across PA, New York and New Jersey, reaching more than 330,000 people in need. Through their volunteer-driven model and innovative food rescue programs, they turn every single dollar donated into $30 worth of food. Now, that's amazing. Join us in supporting this cause To learn more or to give. Go to midwestfoodbankorg slash Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. Here's. There's some I think I even say this in the book like Taylor Swift's grandmother was an opera singer. How did that change Taylor Swift's path? All of us have these family stories that get passed down, and so I think for a lot of us, we're either trying to be everything that our parents were, or or it was so bad that we're like I'm going to be everything that they weren't. Yeah, I'll be the opposite of everything.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's still influencing our story and so just being aware of that, all the different things that come into, perhaps the pressures that we feel, I think, and I so. I used to teach at this. The university I was at was the most diverse university in the nation large immigrant population, actually like one of the number one schools for first generation immigrants to get their diploma, and so I just witnessed it firsthand. Students who one of the examples I give, like my boss, ended up, like one of his films, was nominated for an Oscar, right For an Academy Award, and he, before that, had been a physical therapist. And I just remember being like why in the world were you a fit Like he's, so like artsy and creative? And it blew my mind that this person worked in the sciences and I was like why did you? Why are you a physical therapist? And he said my parents gave up so much for me to be here. I could not look them in the eyes and say I'm going to go make films and see how that goes Right, like I knew whatever I do, he was.
Speaker 2:He was thinking about the story that had come before him and how, what his responsibility was within that story, and so he would end up making films, but not until he was financially able to lose right Something. So it's just, we all come at life with different stories that we're already a part of, and I think it is. I think it's healthy for all of us to kind of slow down and assess and analyze okay, what stories are influencing how I'm seeing my life right now? What are the stories that came before me? What am I trying to, perhaps, through my life, bring some type of redemption to or honor to? I think that is part of how we know what's actually motivating us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's powerful for me, that with my grandmother, who's, you know, suffered for her faith in the former Soviet Union, my mother, who also lived in underground church because of lack of freedom and I am that kid that you talk about, like having them having sacrificed so much for me to be here, like the fact that I can talk to you right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 1:And the talk I had created was like oh my gosh, what a difference from the Lion King, right.
Speaker 2:So I was just like this is not, this is not going to go.
Speaker 2:Well, oh well, this is the only talk I have now, so I'm going to get up and do it.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I do the talk and I have so many women, 70s to 80s, coming up to me with tears in their eyes afterwards and just saying, like I mean just praying over me, prophesying over me, like just loving me, and it was the first time that I realized, oh my goodness, it's like I had always been so focused on my dad because that's my, that was my closest relationship. But being with these women who weren't related to me at all, and seeing these tears in their eyes, I just realized, oh my goodness, like women are a part of a much larger story and I could not be doing what I'm doing right now if it wasn't for the work that these women did 50, 60 years ago, and so they're seeing in me stuff that they could not do in their own lives, and they spent so much energy and time, and so that's what I'm saying. The point I think of life is just to make it better for the people who come next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that for me anyways, and I'm sure that is for you is when you reflect on the work, the sacrifices, the seeds that were sown prior to you, whether it was through prayer or through the works or all the things that were sown, and you get to be the benefactor of that. It also makes you reflect and say, okay, and how am I not only stewarding that well, but how am I? What seeds am I sowing? What impact am I making for the generations following me?
Speaker 1:And it's not so much that, hey, I want people to remember my name a hundred years from now, or or any of the reasons for the accolades or all of that. Like two generations, generations from now, people most likely aren't going to know our names, right, that's kind of statistical. But it's not about that. It's not about I want to make a greater impact so people know who I am. So you know there's this big stamp. It's about the fact that each and every single one of our lives creates ripple effects in the world. And the world, when it feels so dark and heavy as it does right now and it has been you know for ages and ages right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it has been. We need people to walk fully in their, in the confidence of who they're made to be and to be the light, to be the soul, in order to give people hope when you feel hopeless, for people to walk in freedom and to have the sense of just, for them to know that they are someone that matters. And so when we have these moments with people not necessarily, like you talked about not striving for the next big thing and it's okay to do that but reminding ourselves that these little moments that we spend with people and the way that we interact with people, but the ripple effects, the seeds that we sow today, moment by moment, is what's making a great impact and that matters. And for you and I, with our generational stories and all of us have them in different ways it's like it's that reflection of these people have done their time, they've, they've, they've done their work, and the baton is mine. So what am I doing with that baton?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a prayer that I pray every single day is Lord, help me to make a moment for someone today. That is how I prime literally for when my eyes first thing that I say when my eyes open in the morning and this is intentional, again, I studied communication for many years. So what you tell your brain is what your brain is going to look for, so I could wake up and start running through like, oh, my student loans are going to be due and this is it. No, the first thing I say is Lord, help me to make a moment for someone today. And then I kind of just pay attention. My brain is now primed to notice the gas station clerk. My brother just recently moved here with me in Texas and we were looking at apartments and this lady that was showing us the apartments I was just really struck by what a great communicator she was.
Speaker 2:You know I taught communication, so I pay attention to those things. I thought, wow, this girl, you are really good. And so I said to her I said, hey, I just want you to know you are really good at this. You have a gift communicating with people. I have felt so connected to you throughout this process and I just want you to know you, like you shine. And she's looked at me and she goes oh my goodness, this is so weird.
Speaker 2:I was in school for communication and I dropped out because of different reasons and I've been wondering this. This was in summer. She's like. I've been wondering this summer like, should I, can I even go back to school? Is that something I should even think about? So this is really creeping me out that you just said that to me, right?
Speaker 2:I had no idea that she. I literally, because calm is such a small niche thing. I never crossed my mind that this would have been a communication student. I just saw this gift and I wanted to say it. But when you prime your brain to make a moment for someone today, you will look for opportunities to make that come true. You'll look for opportunities to serve or see. If you see something, you'll say something and I'm just telling you you, once I've started living my life this way, I can't, I cannot tell you all the different stories. I have, just like that one, that one's so small, but I have some really big ones that are like unbelievably mind-blowing stories where it's like there's no, I had no idea when I showed up or when I sat next to that person or I said that thing, I had no idea that I was about to be a part of something so much bigger than me. But we all get that opportunity every single day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that I prime my brain with which is similar to yours. You're making a moment. For me, it's like who can I encourage today, right? Yes, because we all need that. So it's a similar thing, and sometimes I will have people on my heart and I I'm like there's, it's just so random. For me it's super random, right.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, yeah, randoming voice memoing someone on Instagram or on you know text or whatever, and sometimes it's people I don't really know and it's just like that it they come to mind and and I'm like this is so weird, like I remember what time I sent it to someone that we're not like in person friends but um, and she's, she's a pretty big um, you know, influencer or whatever, whatever. And uh, I just sent her this like voice memo on my walk, as I was walking and just having my quiet time and praying and just processing some things, and I just she popped to my mind. I sent her this voice memo and I was like this is she's probably gonna think I'm such a weirdo, you know, and I don't hear back from her for like a week and I'm like, oh, definitely, she's probably like this chick is like crazy. I get a voice memo back and she is like crying in this voice memo that she's sending me back and she's like you have no idea of your encouragement.
Speaker 1:And, like what you said, she goes it's just a confirmation to me of what I'm doing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm like wow, and here I was for a week thinking you weirdo, you know, and um, but I think it's just like we don't know. So, like you know, I've seen quotes like if you see something, say something. Like you know, essentially, when you see something good, just like you did in this lady that you interacted with like hey, I see this gift in you like I just I'm noticing that and I'm calling it out. Yeah, we need more people like that in our lives, who are like hey, I see that in you, because a lot of people will think that but will never voice it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then we walk around thinking man like am I doing this right?
Speaker 1:am I I in the right track Like we wrestle, and then you just one person could be like hey, this is what I'm seeing. And you're like oh, I really needed that today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, take those opportunities and it will feel at least for me it felt uncomfortable in the beginning, but the more you do it it just. If they do think you're weird, who cares yeah?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like at the end of the day it's like oh well you know, and I am a little weird and you have to like honestly.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, probably anybody who's like living in this free spirit way. It is a little weird in in comparison to the way most people live.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I am a weirdo period. You know what I mean. Yeah, oh, totally, I own my weirdness. I own my weirdness because there's no one like me and that's cool, you know. Like it's just the way it is. You either love it or you don't, and right, you know you choose. So I love that. Well, I um. One of the things, too, that I wanted to touch on is speaking of generational passing down is something that's beautiful. That happened with your daughter, who wrote a book at a really young age called Can I Sit here and I just think that's so powerful, powerful example of something that you worked on, something that you prayed for, and your daughter is like walking in that. So if you can just briefly share that, that would be awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I, like I said, writing was always the vision, it was always the dream for my life and I could remember I mean I would pitch publishing companies. In middle school I was again weird, you know what I mean? Like I think I remember sitting down, especially like when Google and stuff came out, and trying to figure out okay, who do I send an email from my AOL email account to AOL? Love it, yeah, and so, anyway, I obviously I never, I don't think I published a book until I was 22 years old.
Speaker 2:But I had this dream of being a child, specifically a child author. And on my 11th birthday I remember crying to myself to sleep, saying like, oh, I've not done anything with my. I was 11., I've not done anything with my life, and blah, blah, blah. So my daughter, long story short, many years later, obviously, I get into the publishing industry and editor, when I was at a conference, was like, hey, have you ever thought about doing a children's book? And I was like, oh, actually my daughter had just gone through this really bad bullying experience and I wanted to write something for parents and for kids that were finding themselves in a bully, because it's such a traumatic thing, of course for the child, but even for the parent it feels like how do I protect you? You feel so helpless, yeah, watching your kid's personality change through that. And so anyway, they said, would you want to do a book? I was like yeah, and so did not even think about praying those prayers as a kid. But when my daughter signed her contract for that book she was 11 years old.
Speaker 2:And I remember, like all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit just really spoke to me and said I remembered. And I was like it, like stunned me. I can remember where I was. I was, I had been speaking in California and I was sitting in somebody's guest house and I just felt this whoosh of the Holy Spirit saying I remembered, I remembered your prayers. And again that goes back to this for me it's always spiritual and a God thing of a God that is faithful from generation to generation to generation, a heaven that is watching a story unfold for thousands of years. And then I tend to think oh well, if I, whatever it is I don't do in my life, can I plant the seeds generationally for something to change for years to come in ways that I don't know, you know, I just think it's an I just this is such a fun, exciting way to live life for me, and so, yeah, I hope I pass that on to my kids, this idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I just that's like such a powerful part in your book is that we are all part of a much larger story, a much larger story in humanity. And to me that just lights me up because you know that is an exciting way to view that. You know, versus viewing or disappointments as this is like the end, all or whatever. Whatever it's like, oh, I didn't, this didn't happen and this expectation, you know, or there's this that is disappointing, but at the same time it's like, oh, that isn't the end of it, like this is your. You're part of a much greater story than that one disappointment, that one failure, that one setback in your life. So keep on keeping on, baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And would that not be enough, Like, would it not, if you were able to know today that your great, great grandkid, right Like, lived into in some way that made this impact in the world? I'm telling you, hand to heart, that would be enough for me right now to know that I'm a part of that story and that my life does matter in immeasurable ways that the world has not yet seen. And so I just I think we have to tell ourselves the things that the world isn't going to tell you, which is this story doesn't end when you die.
Speaker 1:It doesn't.
Speaker 2:It's going to keep going. And how am I making an impact in planting seeds that will harvest years after I'm gone?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so much that we can wrap here even further, and I just want to honor your time too, and some of the questions that I ask at the end of the interview is like what is the bravest thing that Dr Heather has ever done?
Speaker 2:Heather has ever done. Oh, my goodness, I got to think for a second. The bravest thing. I had actually talked about this in the book. But I think the bravest thing so far that I've done is I spoke up on behalf of somebody who didn't have the agency to do so Deep injustice that I felt had happened to them and it wasn't a family member and went up to the highest ranks of my university and just looked this person in the eyes and said what you did is wrong to this person.
Speaker 2:And that felt very brave for me, because I'm not somebody I don't really like conflict. I'm not somebody that engages it. I'm more of like a walk away, Like if somebody is hurting me, it's easier for me to just say I'll just walk away and let you have it. And so this deep stirring that I felt to go create conflict on behalf of somebody else is not necessarily normal for me, and I remember my heart just pounding as I walked up the stairs. But when I got in his office I felt total, total peace and I could see he was so nervous and I suddenly had so much peace and I'm so grateful now that I just have that moment in my own mind of doing what I think was the right thing, even though it was a very hard thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is super brave. You know to go to the higher up and say, hey, this is addressing that, especially if you're not someone who's confrontational you know it's like oh, what am I stepping into right now?
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Speaker 2:You'll get there quicker if you slow down. Okay, unpack that a little bit, yeah, essentially, my mentor said to me Heather, you can have all the talent, but what you need is experience, and experience can never be rushed, and so the only thing that's going to prepare you for your life 10 years from now is your life right now. So you have to show up right now. You're going to get there quicker if you slow down, if you're in your own body, if you pay attention to what's around you and you wipe the counters right, like showing up to your life as it is. The present is not your enemy. And so, yeah, that advice changed my life.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's powerful. What are some pivotal books for you that you read? It could be from any time period, any season, just books that you're like whoa, this, this is definitely changing some things there.
Speaker 2:So many. I read like 30 books a year Cause I told you I'm a student, so so many it's hard to so.
Speaker 1:Do you have books in, like your bathroom, your all the rooms and all the things?
Speaker 2:I yes, I mean I used to have an office where I just had tons of bookshelves in academia. Tell Her Story by Nije Gupta. That was a pivotal book for me, talking about the importance, or just like the history, of women throughout the church that I think a lot of people don't realize. Magic Words by Jonah Berger, a book on oh and that's another podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't get me started, yeah, but no, it's true, because you know, like we I mean, I have a ton of neighbors and we get together, thankfully. I love my neighborhood, you know, but I love the fact that you don't have to agree with everything the people on your block agree with, or wherever that is. You know, and I think that I mean the way that I see it. I'm called to love people, right. Like it doesn't matter where what you stand in and the political, on the religious sphere of of this, um, this or that, it doesn't matter. Like my job is to be a space where people are loved. That is the way that I see that, and if I can do a good job, like at the end of my life, if all that's on the thing is that she has loved well, I have done my part. Please tell the church.
Speaker 2:Yes, I totally agree with you. I think that this is actually like I theologically. This is the first four commandments. No other gods before me, no graven images, it's all it's. The first four are love God, love God, love God, love God. The last six honor thy father and mother. Thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not commit adultery or love each other. Love each other, love each other. Oh my God, could you guys just love each other. That is why the fulfillment of the law. When the man says to Jesus what is the greatest commandment, he says love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. To love God and love others. For the Christian is the point, and any religion that is teaching you. Outside of that, I'm telling you you are breaking the very covenant that Jesus came to fulfill. It is very problematic what we're seeing in a lot of our churches right now, and I'm very passionate about talking about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And what I love is it says that love your neighbors as you love yourself.
Speaker 2:So there's an implication there.
Speaker 1:That's saying you also know how to love yourself first, my goodness. And do you know that? Anyway, that is another podcast, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because there are many people, and especially you know, if you're not in Christianity, you don't understand this, but in Christianity there are so many people that are like, oh well, you know, like I'm a horrible, wretched sinner and I should hate myself and I'm just like, oh, my goodness, you are made in the image of God and all of like. The social science research. People who are happy with themselves tend to reveal happiness towards other people who feel joy within themselves tend to bring joy into this world. That's like we have to figure out how to find joy and peace and happiness within ourselves. If we're ever going to give it to somebody else. We tend to give what we feel inside. So when we feel angry and bitter and jealous and resentful, well of course, then we're spewing this out into the world. Yeah, work on ourselves please.
Speaker 1:All right, and that is how we shall end this podcast. Thank you, go, love yourself, love your neighbor. Yes, you have done your job and work on yourself, so there's that All right. Well, heather, it's been such an honor to talk to you. I am so excited how this episode is going to encourage people.
Speaker 2:My honor. Thank you for letting me be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Once we Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoy the show, I would love for you to tell your friends. Leave us a reviewer rating and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, speckhopoffcom.