“Can I Create a Different Story Than the One I Was Handed?” Breaking Generational Cycles with Leigh Grames

What does it actually take to break generational cycles and build a meaningful life you’re proud of?

In this episode, I sit down with Leigh Grames, a photographer, mother, and creative who has defied the odds by building a successful business, cultivating a strong family life, and walking through the courageous journey of adoption. 

Leigh shares her story with honesty and depth, offering insight into what it means to choose resilience, redefine legacy, and live intentionally both personally and professionally.

A conversation about non-linear healing, courage, and how people can be both the source of our pain and the path to seeing ourselves differently. We all need at least one person to believe in us.

In this episode you will walk away with:

• A real-life example of how generational patterns can be broken 
• Honest reflections on motherhood, adoption, and choosing purpose over fear
• Practical wisdom on resilience, self-trust, and rewriting your personal narrative
• Inspiration to live intentionally and define success on your terms

This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered:
 “Can I create a different story than the one I was handed?”

If this episode encouraged you, share it with a friend.

Transcript

Meeting Lee And Setting The Stage

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Lee Grammes, welcome to the Once Orga podcast. I'm so glad we finally made it happen. Good morning.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

It's so good to be here. It's good to see you again.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, um, so I was so inspired by your story, Lee. The very first time that we met was in 2024. You were sharing a bit of your story at Midwest Food Bank during a fundraiser. Uh and I think in you sharing a story, there was not like a single draw in the room. And people were just kind of jaw-drop at really uh absorbing the resilience and the how much you've overcome it. So I think there was so much your story that was so inspiring that I'm like, how do we get Lee on the one-to-day podcast? Because if any story elevates courage and uh resilience, you certainly represent that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah, so I would love for you to share a little bit about your story and who is Lee and also what um generational patterns did you see growing up early on that you knew you didn't want to repeat.

Childhood Chaos And Generational Patterns

Losing Her Mother And Finding Faith

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Wonderful. Well, thank you for having me. It's so nice to meet other women that are aligned with good endeavors, and we're trying to make our community a better place. And so I know that you support a number of different nonprofit initiatives that I do. So my name is Lee Grammes. I am by profession, I'm a business owner, I'm a photographer, I um photograph weddings and families. I did over 150 photo shoots last year. Absolutely love um that I've built a company that I can be a working woman and I can also serve like my family well in the ways I want to. So I'm a wife, I've been married for 13 years, and I have two little girls. I have an eight-year-old Zoe and then I have a three-year-old Emerson. And so um the the thing that I want to just share right off the bat is so often, whenever we meet somebody, you know, you have no idea what they've gone through. Some people though, whenever you meet them, you can tell, like they carry their past with them every day. And so um, you know, uh the woman I am now, I think people could see me as smart, confident, determined. You were talking about resilient. Um, I'm 36 years old, and I'm so thankful to be in this place, but it's been a long journey of healing. Um, and I experienced a lot of trauma as a child. And so my story began actually before I was born. Um, when you're talking about generational cycles, I find that like my family history is kind of sprinkled with struggle and also success. We can all say that, right? Like there's always been somebody in our in our family we admired, and somebody that we're ashamed of or that we're embarrassed of. So um I was born to a mom who, when I was born, she was homeless. She was an active drug user. She lived in San Francisco. My mom was um started using drugs when she was 13. So, and her mother, my grandma, got married pretty young, tried to make, tried to do the right things. Um, she grew up in a pretty abusive traumatic home herself. And so she was the best mom she could be, but it wasn't enough. And my mom ran away from home when she was 13, pursued this life of she wanted to be a hippie and a free spirit and a rebel in San Francisco. So when I was born, my mom was homeless. Um, I was born drug addicted, very sick. So that immediately threw me into the foster care system. And uh my grandma, my mom's mom, by the time I was born, had kind of gotten on her feet, a very strong, a very resilient woman, very determined, stepped into our life. Um, but there was a lot of chaos in that. And so, for anybody that's listening, if you've ever known somebody that's been a heavy alcohol user or on drugs, two days are never the same. So you have high highs and low lows. So um the first couple years of my life are some of them are vivid, some of them are kind of spotty. So um, my grandma tried to create stability, but my mom would just self-sabotage over and over again. So we lived in Arizona and California, we lived all over the place. So um we settled in Pennsylvania, that's where I live now, when I was four and a half. And um, my mom actually passed away when I was six, which was horrific in some ways, but also a gift. Um, our life was just a nightmare. There was a lot of abuse, there was a lot of neglect. Um, because of that, we also were very, very poor. So my grandma supported us, worked as hard as she could. But, you know, imagine coming home and your daughter's passed out drunk, high on drugs, and there's a five-year-old. I mean, we I have a toddler, I have I have an eight-year-old and a three-year-old. There's a five-year-old left to her own devices, you know, for God who knows how long. Um, so when my mom passed away, we actually, my grandma moved me, she became my legal guardian, and we kind of shook the snow globe, and there was a little bit of a fresh start. And so um, I attribute a lot of my courage to my grandma. My grandma introduced me to God. She's a Christian. She taught me what faith was, she taught me that I could trust the Bible, that my source of strength came from within myself, but that God had a plan for me and that He loved me, and that because I had experienced really dark days, there were still beautiful moments ahead of me. Um and so that began a journey of trying to be normal, which I've never felt normal. Um, and I would say to any like to like listeners and probably yourself, I think I don't know why. Maybe you can speak to this. I don't know why sometimes, like as women, like we want to conform so much. Right. But I've I've never been normal. I was always, you know, my family didn't look like everybody else's. Um it was just so interesting. And so I think being an adolescent and then going into middle school and high school, there was always this um this like nudge inside of me to be different. And I knew that I grew up poor, I knew that I was a legal orphan, which I hate that title, actually don't use it. Um, but I just knew like I want to be normal, I want to be happy, I want to be stable, I don't want to, I don't want to go, I want to come out of where I came and I want to live a better life. So that lit a fire in me. I knew um I needed to be smart, I needed education. So I struggled in school. I had a lot of learning disabilities and I was raised by a single mom. So anybody out there listening, if you were raised by a single mom, like you've got to stand on your own two feet a lot. You know, I got myself up, I got myself to school, made breakfast, did my own homework with myself. Um but it there was always this thing inside of me like, I don't want to be poor. I was raised in a trailer park, no offense to people in trailer parks, but there was always this the shame. And I think as I got older, I was proud of myself that I wasn't making poor choices, but the shame cloud kind of started to develop where I almost wanted to pretend like my childhood wasn't there. So um I would say like a big key to overcoming your past and being courageous is being honest with yourself about what you've gone through because you can't heal. Our pastor always says, you can't heal what you don't reveal. Yeah. But as a teenager, I spent a lot, lot of time trying to fit in and trying to be somebody that I honestly I wasn't because I really wanted to be normal.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah, I mean, I think that is, like you said, I think that resonates with a lot of people. I think a lot of us don't feel like we are you know normal, whatever that is. And maybe there's a most of the world is walking around feeling not normal, you know, thinking everyone else has it together, right? Like that's not value at all. Um and I think at the same time, well, I think it's normal or more like they want to have the safety of security that some other kids have that experience, which is a little bit different than just conforming. But I think that it's kind of nothing that as if we want it to conform and we want to be like everyone else to degree, especially like as we're growing up in a school. And then we're become adults and you know during like midlife is we realize that it's the uniqueness that actually is our kind of superpower. You know, it's it's different, and that's the thing that people love and are drawn to us, is the the something that's unique about you, and it's like, oh my gosh, Lee, this is so cool about you. And right, and you're like, oh, this is what I hated my whole life, you know. I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

So yeah, that's yeah, whenever you go get a job, you have a resume. Your resume has to have unique, different things. Right. I'm a business owner, I own a company, I need to stand out. And so it's ironic when you're young, I think it's very natural biologically, we want to be safe and we want to fit in. That's probably a component of it too, growing up with a lot of abuse and domestic violence and neglect. The instability, I think I really crave that safety and stability. And so if you're if you're quiet and you look like everybody else, you go with the flow, you're not really noticed. Right. Um, but um, I did work through that. I'm not trying to be like everybody else now, thankfully. It definitely took some time.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, and I love that your grandmother was such a gift in saying, Hey, um, you know, you're there's great things in the horizon. Like it doesn't always have to be that way for you. And you know, and it sounds like she tried her best to adapt and figure out how to give you the better feature and doing like the best you can and scenario. Um and so it it kind of gave you a sense of belief and faith in like things I don't have to be this way and I don't have to continue. Was there a moment when you realized this cycle ends with me? And what if if there is, what would have sparked that awareness that I want this to end with me?

Shame, School Struggles, And Early Grit

SPEAKER_02 10:46

So um I grew up in inner city, um, I grew up inner inner city, Harrisburg, and um I never felt safe physically. And um when I was five years old, my mom was actually attacked, she was jumped. Um, she was she was brutally attacked. I remember watching that, and I think, and I probably couldn't articulate the time, but I remember inside my body being like, I don't want to live here. This is not a safe place. I I want to physically, I want to physically be safe. And then when she passed away when I was seven and we moved out to the country, um, we lived in Grantville, and I remember feeling safe, but we really struggled financially. And I came home one day and the lights had been shut off and we had no heat on. I was very, very cold. And so my grandma, she was working, she was at work, she called a neighbor like a mile down the road, who I who was a safe person, and she goes, Um, can we come to your house? She's cold. And I remember walking there, it was probably 10 or 11 and feeling so embarrassed. Um, I'm gonna use a Brene Brown line. Brene Brown was like the story I told myself, and the story I told myself was, I'm this poor little girl that doesn't have any heat at her house, and I need to go to somebody else's house. Now, as an adult, I'm so thankful for those parents. They were so kind and so generous to open up their home. But it was a really long walk, and there was something deep inside of me to go, when I'm a grown-up and I have my own house, I will never be cold. My lights will always be on. Now I turn lights off like constantly. Um but um I I'm just a cold person, so I always have a blanket, and my husband will say, like, don't turn the heat up too high, you know. We want to keep the heat down. And I've worked through it, but when you're little and you're cold and you're so embarrassed, there's something, you know. Um, and so we have like heat, I have a really beautiful card out. We have heat warmers and stuff, and I I remember that, but um, I started working when I was 15 in restaurants, and I've been working ever since. So um, that's a whole other conversation, you know. Why are why are women driven to be workaholics? Some of it is trauma. Um, but that while it I mean, it was it was winter. I literally walked in the snow and I had a coat and boots, you know. Um, but then of course the evening got even worse because now my grandma's calling the electric company and calling the oil company. We lived in a trailer, so trailers are not warm typically. And I just felt so now I can use the word shame. I didn't have those words back then. Um, but a lot of my neighbors were like that, they wouldn't have heat for a couple weeks and they'd be running space heaters. I remember being like, you know, where I'd wake up and the pipes would be burst and then we wouldn't have water for a couple days. I'm like, I don't want to live like this. I don't want to wake up scared that I'm gonna be cold. So that's definitely a dark point, but like you had said, a s a spark. I kind of like that. Maybe it's like a spark point. There's a moment in my story that just kind of went, I've got to be, I've got to figure out a way to make enough money and to be secure enough that I always have basic, you know, food, shelter, clothing, and I'm never cold.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah. Yeah, that is what a pivotal moment, especially like you having that extended period to think it through. It's like there, like you said, and shame is such a uh it's such a kind of will have a hold on you, you know, and it will fog over just like your identity. And when we higher identity exchange, uh it's a lot to carry. So I'm curious too, like what inner work did you have to do to believe that you are worthy of a different life? Because your identity was attacked right by the circumstances, the place that you lived, and you know, the past, your mom, and all of that. And so it's like what inner work did you do? And also like, what are some things that are helpful? Because there's people that I know that listen and maybe they still are on the beginning stages of their journey or trying to figure out like, well, I still have a lot of work to do, or I'm just beginning this. Um what are some things that are helpful?

The Cold Walk That Sparked Resolve

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yeah. Um, great question. So the first thing I would say is um you need help from outside resources. Like you don't need to you don't need to rescue yourself. You can't rescue yourself, it's impossible. Um part of me, um, I like the idea of you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I like that, but it's not true. And so if nobody ever gave you a pair of boots, you know, it's like, do I have two hands that work? Do I have the courage? You know, can I physically do that? Um, so um I'm I'm a huge proponent in counseling and therapy. Um, I when I was really young, when my mom was still alive, I actually asked my grandma for therapy and she'll tell me this story. I was really little and I said, when mommy gets drunk and yells at me, it hurts my ears and it scares me. I don't want to feel like that. And my grandma was just so overwhelmed. She's working a full-time job, you know, trying to keep my mom from hurting me, trying to keep me safe. And so I went into play trauma therapy, which at that time, again, you don't know what a gift something is when you're small, but now I really do. Um, I would say that there was a divine intervention because the timing was incredible. So I started working with this woman about eight months before my mom died, and my mom died in a really tragic way. Um, it was really traumatic. And so she actually was with me. My mom passed away in a hospital. Um, so she was with us when my mom actually passed away, and then I saw her a couple months after. Um, and so that was such a gift because as a young child I knew counseling helps and it's safe. Um, and so I would talk to school guidance counselors a little bit. Um, but when I was in middle school and high school, I started working with a nonprofit that worked with a lot of kids. They use the term high risk. I don't know in like Europe, in the UK, if they use the word high risk, but kids that struggle, either they're low income or they come from a broken home or they've had abuse. And so I worked with those people. And being around people that have a similar story to you, it helps, but I think it also can be it can help, but sometimes you can normalize your challenges when you see other people that challenge. You need people that are in the fight with you to kind of support you, but you need people that are ahead of it to really inspire you to get out of that. And so there were a lot of mentors, and I'm so thankful I saw the people in my life. Um, like one, her name is Ellen, she's tremendous. She's still, I met her when I was 11 years old and 36. So I've known her for a long time. Um, and she would, you know, really kept me on path in school, was careful how I interacted with boys. You know, are you working? What do you wear? She really held the standard very high. Um, one of the most pivotal moments for my story um was actually I did really intense trauma counseling when I was in college. I was 18 years old, and I had a woman who we walked through a lot of dark memories. And we also talked about how I had to be held accountable for, like you had said, breaking those cycles and making intentional choices to be a healthy person to create a future. And for me, that looked like healthy relationships with guys and a lot of boyfriends. I didn't want to be alone, and that was something. And thankfully, I never did anything with the boy that had any like lifelong, deterring, you know, yeah, consequences. Consequences, exactly. But I I knew that too. I was like, uh, you know, um, I really need to be careful here. So that was really helpful. And um still to this day, there's I'm not in regular therapy weekly, but I do have a counselor, and she's she's a pastor, really trust her, and I can call her when I when something gets triggered in me from my past, and we can talk about it. Um I actually I went back to California. So I was born in San Francisco. My mom lived there for over 10 years when she was like in the deepest throes of her addiction. California was always a very dark place because I would the narrative I told at Brene Brown, the story I told myself was nothing good happened to me in California. So for our 10-year anniversary, we went there for a trip and it was so healing. It was so redemptive. And I remember we were flying in and we get off the plane, and I just thought, I get it, mom. This is a beautiful place. No wonder she wanted to be here. It's cool, it's interesting, it's beautiful. And um, there was healing in that to go, you know. I I understand my mom. Um, I don't want to jump ahead too much, but I will say um when I'm talking about my mom, a few years ago, I was in trauma counseling, really working through this stuff with my mom, and I had this deep conviction, which is Sometimes conviction is a churchy word, but I would I would credit it to God because it was an idea that was smarter than I am. Like I can't take the credit. I think it was divine from God. And this little voice said to me, Stop calling your mom a drug addict. Because I would say, my mom was a drug addict. And I was talking to my counselor about that, and she goes, Why? And I said, Because there's so much more to her than that. And I also can't live my life as the daughter of a drug addict, a drug addicted baby. I have to be really careful with my words. It's true, but my mom was also an artist. She was brilliant. She loved books. I mean, she was a survivor. You can't, she is five foot. You cannot be a five-foot woman living on the streets of San Francisco for 10 years and not like she's badass. Like you was tough. Um, and so much of my grit and tenacity has been redeemed from that. There's a lot of good things there. And so um in my 30s, and as a wife and a mom, I am at the stage of healing to not demonize my mom, not to whitewash it, but not to demonize it, because that created a new cloud of shame for me as a grown-up. Because I want to be free of it, I don't want to deny it, but it can't consume me because my identity is not the daughter of a drug addict. I am a woman, I'm a wife and a mom.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Um that is so powerful. What you just said is that your mom was more than just that label, right? She was more than just a drug addict. And and you trying to see the good that she did bring. Um, I think that's such a really beautiful point because uh a lot of people have a parent or maybe both parents who may have not been perfect in some way, and it's easy to put a label on them and say, well, this is what I lacked because of you know who they were and what they didn't give me, and so on and so forth. Uh but to reframe it in a way to say what is it that they brought that's actually positive, or what ways that they contribute to my life that added value because I I believe every person can add value in its own way. And you know, none of us are really perfect to have it all together to begin with. But um, some of us just have a lot more struggle or things that um we are yet to overcome and so I think to see and say, okay, what value or what can I take away that was positive that's such a mature and and that's it's coming, you know, I can tell from like a really more field version of belief, right? Than before. Like you would have never been able to say, oh, like this is great. And these are the good parts. It's like it's a mature lens that you're looking through as a mother now, as a woman. And um and I think that's beautiful, and it's a beautiful reminder to people just to also acknowledge that there can be good, even from the parent, the grandparent, the owner, whoever, um that they also bring to the table besides some of the things that they carry and maybe don't know how to communicate well or don't know how to love because maybe they weren't modeled that very well to begin with.

Therapy, Mentors, And Owning The Story

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Right. I had uh a few years ago, two years ago, I had a very interesting um experience. Healing is not black and white, it's not linear, kind of like people say it a lot with grief. Um I was watching, I was watching a testimonial of a woman who was an alcoholic and she almost had a near-death experience in a car, and it was a rock bottom for her, and she had this amazing story, and she's talking about how one day I wanted to drink and the next day I didn't, and she felt like miraculously like delivered from alcoholism. She went to rehab and turned her life around, and I love that, and I've heard that story a lot of times, and but in that moment, I was so incredibly sad, and I'm sitting there and I'm confused. I'm I'm very into with my emotions, and for the first time my whole life, I had this thought I go, I'm sad my mom never got healed, she was never free, she lived completely um a slave to her addictions, and I'm like, I've never felt this before, and so I make an appointment with my counselor, and I'm talking talking through this, and she goes, My counselor says, Do you have compassion for your mom? Like, I think so. I think to protect myself as a child, and then I had to just survive and kind of push some things down to move on to just go to school and get a job and go to college. Yeah, it's easier to be angry at somebody. It's really easy to label to somebody go, my drug addict mom is dead, and I am here, and everything is fine. And so I'm 36, so this season of my healing is coming, is seeing the humanity of my mom and the compassion of it. Um, I'll we'll talk a little bit about like my oldest daughter when she was adopted, but um my counselor said to me, She goes, So you feel bad for your mom? I'm like, I think I do. And that might sound weird, but for anyone that's been a trauma survivor or you've had an abuser, those are that's a really weird feeling because it's again, it's easy to hate, it's easy to judge. Um blame, and so blame, right? And to go, wow, I feel I feel sorry for her. And I had wished that she would have been free of her addictions. Um, my grandma, my grandma's still alive, she's 85, she's a very strong woman, and she'll say to me, quite often, I wish you would have been able to know your mom. Um, I look a lot like her, apparently, like I act a lot like her, and they and my mom's childhood friend, she's still alive, and she'll say, Whenever she sees me, it kind of is a fantasy for her. She's like, I always wondered what my mom's name was Wendy, what Wendy would have been like if she never would have done drugs. And so that's that's heavy for me, and I'm I'm not strong enough to kind of hold those emotions yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Um, but when I see other people celebrating recovery, it's I'm in this new phase of healing to go, oh, I'm happy for them. I'm like, I wish my mom would have gotten, would have had the chance to have battled those demons, really overcome it and lived a free life. So um I hate her a lot less. And um, I'm with that comes a lot of forgiveness. That is deep in her healing work. Absolutely. Um, but with that forgiveness, it's kind of softened my heart, and now I'm having more compassion for her. And I'm thankful because um the journey as a mom. Um I don't know if that might be a good segue to talk about Zoe. Um, the journey as a mom has really helped me with that, with her story too.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah, that's beautiful. I just want to touch on what you said, which a healing isn't linear, right? And so just because you had counseling in elementary school and middle school and high school and then college, um, it's not um one and done, right? Like you can continue to have triggers throughout your life, and um it's just like uncovering layers and getting to uh a healthier and uh a better place, right? But like no one's ever just like, okay, we we're just completely a whole new place. Right. So that's I think a beautiful message to communicate. And there's also a lot of hope in that, that there's uh there is a a path of growth and um getting to some of these new realizations. And so I really love that. And yeah, so my next question is gonna be is what led you to adoption and um what did that decision stir up in you emotionally? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

So um I oh I really appreciate what you had just said. I want to come back to that. When you are pursuing, when you are overcoming, especially childhood trauma, but trauma at any stage, sometimes I find that I will dismiss the work I need to do right now and I'll say, Oh, I don't need to think about my mom. I've I did that, I've already done it for 25, I'm 36, I've done it for 30 years. Um, and like, or like we've talked about that before. And I even said to my counselor sometimes, like, we've talked about San Francisco, like we've talked about this episode or the this instance, and she's like, apparently we're going deeper, you know. Um, and so give yourself grace, be patient with yourself. You may have to revisit an episode or an experience for decades. Um, it definitely is not as scary. I don't feel shame anymore about it. Um, I will say it's um it's exhausting. Like anyone that's listening, we've all survived something. And when you're going through it, there's some it's almost like working out, like lifting weights.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

You're like, okay, I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

I know I'm gonna be stronger when I'm done and I'm gonna be grateful I did it, but it takes a lot of discipline, honestly, to you know, like, okay, we're gonna go into this session, or I'm gonna journal this, or I'm gonna think about this. Um, definitely worthwhile, but it's it takes a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Um Yeah. And do you feel that with with the healing process? Because you know, people have different uh point of views on that, and I don't believe there's any like necessarily like this is the only way to do it. Everyone's unique and their journeys are unique. Uh um but do you feel that there is um like there can be too much of like rehashing the same thing over and over that it can become more of a permanent thing versus uh um something that you for example, like some of the things that have happened to us, right? If we've endured trauma um are no longer happening to us. And if we like continue to go back there and rehash that same thing, for example, like let's say that one traumatic scene, whatever that is for whoever's looking at and we have to go back and relive that in a sense because there's there is a neurological thing, or um like our minds don't know the difference from like an imagined thought and a real thought, right? So can that be like further making it um like we love it more? Do you know what I mean?

Compassion For Her Mother And Forgiveness

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah, yeah. Um great question. Now I want to go find a book to study um brain health with memories. Um I do think okay, so what I know about healing so far on my own body, we all have our comfort zone and we have our stretch learning zone, and then we have like the shock zone when we're so pushed outside of our comfort zone. Um I right now I live about 45 minutes from Harrisburg. I live in York right now, from the town I grew up in. There are locations and streets that very violent bad things happen to my mom or to me, I don't ever want to see again. There's no point. And I also, so I'm a Christian, I acknowledge there's a, you know, God is love and light, there's a dark adversary, you know, the enemy is dark. And so sometimes, like if I'm driving through Harrisburg, I know two blocks over in that area, something very bad happened, I remember it. Um, I'm not gonna go over there. I'm not afraid, but I'm really, really uncomfortable. And so um there are sometimes, or like even let's think of more like a practical, an ex-boyfriend will pop into my mind, you know, or a or a girlfriend, a friend I had that betrayed me. How do I respond to that? I could go get on social media and look them up and judge them and relive it and kind of you know, drudge it up in my heart, or I can go, okay, I forgive this person, that is in the past, and this is where I am right now. You make a really good point. Our past can be a huge distraction and can really hold us back. So counseling, I think, is a big key to be free so that we have space in our heart and our mind and our life to do new things and to kind of flip a chapter in the book. Um, you know, I believe that God's written a beautiful story for us. And like you had said, if we relive some of the things in the past, I would say too, if we relive it alone or in a dark and negative way, that's not productive. Because a lot of my trauma therapy is going back into those memories and talking it through and getting more clarity and perspective and sitting with that. So I think there is time we need to go back into the past, or maybe you have a counselor or a therapist and you go to a physical space that something traumatic happened. We're very fragile as people. I think we need a lot of support and we need people to hold us up. So you've got to know yourself. Am I strong enough to physically go to this place or mentally go to this place? Um, one of the things that my counselor says to me sometimes, when I push back on this a little bit, she'll go, I want you to tell Peter. Peter's my husband. I want you to tell your husband what we talked about. I think it's to bring things into the light and so that there isn't shame. Because even when you have good sessions or I worked through forgiving my mom, or I worked through this abuse, I, you know, a moment that she abused me or she did something bad. Um, and so I'll tell Peter, and he's very supportive. He grew up in a very safe and healthy home. So thank God he never was a victim of domestic violence. But I'll tell him and he'll give me a hug, and he's like, I love you, I'm proud of you. I'm like, okay. Um, and that's another muscle I have to build too, is another layer of not feeling shame, is being honest about my story with the right people. Yeah, being vulnerable takes a lot of courage. Be wise with that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

So um not everyone deserves to hear like certain parts of your story, right? Like that is, and I think Brene Brown mentions that is that not everyone has the feet at specific parts of your story, and that's okay too. It's not making you like, you know, I'm brave to not share that. It's just wisdom to say, hey, you know, these are the parts I that are more personal to me, you know, I'm gonna share that within a safe space. Um so yeah, that's I love that. So let's let's go into your adoption. What led you to adoption?

SPEAKER_02 34:20

So um I went to college, um, met my husband at college. I got married when I was 23. And everybody, when you get married, when do you have a baby? And I I didn't have any desires to have a baby. Um, and so we got married, we were young, dumb, and broke, you know, and so we were just trying to build, we were trying to build our careers and pay bills, you know, just create like a life for ourselves. And so when I was in my mid to late 20s, um, this stirring started to happen in my heart. And I remember having this thought, and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say it was God because it was a thought that's smarter than I am. And I thought, I want to be a mom, I want to love and nurture a person, but I don't want to have a baby. And up to that point, the only people I knew that adopted struggled with infertility. Um, or they were older and they had a lot of money and they could do an international adoption because I thought it was very out of reach. So I start thinking about it and praying about it, and it really was something I felt very like convicted to do. And so got up the courage, talked to my husband about it, and he looked at me and he goes, I've been waiting for you to ask. I'm like, What? So um, my husband, my husband actually grew up abroad, his parents were missionaries, so he was born in Honduras. Um, he's a white, blonde-haired, green-eyed guy. He's kind of a ginger, but um, he's actually fluent in Spanish. So he has a really cool global perspective. Um, and he took a mission trip when he was uh teenager to India to help with the tsunami. He went there a few times. Um, I never left the country. The first time I left the country, I was 21 years old. I went to Ireland. So I've gone, I've left the country a few times, but he's traveled to tons of countries. So we started talking about adoption, and our heart the the basis of it was I want to give a woman a future. I want to, I want to find a little girl that without intervention wouldn't make it, maybe physically, or even like in my own story. You know, if my grandma had not stepped in and rescued me, statistically I might not be here, or I might be in a very dark lifestyle. And so we started thinking about where, you know, and when you're adopting, you can go domestic adoption through the foster care system, you can do newborn adoption, or you can do an international adoption. And so we really felt compelled to do an international adoption. And for us, we um chose India. Um, India is the most populated country in the world. Women are very oppressed in India, unless you are very, very wealthy, but there's a huge disparity there. Um caste system is very much alive and well, and so we thought, okay, a little girl that's been abandoned or neglected doesn't really have any value there. And that just burned me up. Again, another one of those spark moments to go, okay, I feel like very on fire for this. I am focused. So it took about two years to get matched with her. Um, we committed, uh so our daughter's name is Zoe. Um, we committed to her when she was eight months old, and she is from a country in the middle of India or a state in India called Maharashtra. And it took about 11 months to bring her home. So um, one of the most beautiful parts about surviving violence and abuse, and I will say this, anyone that's listening, if you haven't had that moment of, man, I'm so glad I thought through my childhood um when we got her referral call. And so our social worker called us and said, we have a little girl who we think would be great for you. And um, they said, we don't know who her parents are, and I remember being like, don't care. I don't know who my dad is. I never I don't know who my dad is, and my mom's passed away. So technically I'm an orphan. I thought I can do that, I can raise a little girl, you know, and because I know what that's like to be an orphan, and someone gave me a home. I want to do that for somebody else, and so it was a lot of dark, sad, sleepless nights, took a lot of work. Um, it was very expensive. But we brought her home um in 2019, and she's eight years old now. So um uh I did not know. Let's think about that 11-year-old girl on that walk in the snow to somebody else's warm house. I had no idea that God was planting that want of security and safety and peace and success and stability. I had I didn't have visions of being a wife and a mom back then, but I'm so glad I thought through all that trauma as a child because I have so much to give to somebody else now. Um, I would not be able to be the mom to Zoe I am if I had not survived all of the abuse and neglect that I had. And so it's huge redemption. And even now, you know, we're talking about the hard work of counseling and the hard work of therapy and forgiving your abusers and forgiving the people that have wronged you. I am so compelled to do that to be a healthy woman and a wife and a mom, because I have to model that for my daughter, especially Zoe. She has a very difficult story. All the professionals told us, you know, when she turns 10, 11, 12, she's gonna ask you some really tough questions. She's asking us very tough questions now that I think she's not old enough to know the answers to. So we're actually I'm pursuing co we're pursuing counseling for her. We're pursuing play therapy and some family counseling. Um, because I want her and it's wild. Um, I see her. I don't want her to have those seasons of shame. You know, I had decades of my life where I wouldn't talk about my past and I pretended I was somebody else. I wouldn't bring people to my house. I didn't want anyone to know I lived in a trailer. Um, I don't want Zoe to ever feel ashamed. Um, one thing I will say is Zoe's Indian, so she's brown. Um, that is a reality that we embrace. She feels very different. And I can say to her, Oh, I love you, you're beautiful. But I would never dare say, like, doesn't matter, you're brown and we're white, doesn't matter. It does. I mean, you know, I could physically blend in. I didn't have a big sign above my head that says I was a domestic violence survivor, drug-babied orphan.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

I could, if I could wear the right clothes and say all the right things, nobody would know. I could kind of disguise my past. Zoe walks around every day. You know, she walks in the beauty of what she looks like, but she looks different. You know, and so trying to teach her how to be brave and strong, um, it's it's a whole it's a whole new phase of my own healing. Um, and it's a new challenge.

How To Heal Without Getting Stuck

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yeah, and I'm sure um seeing her evolve and grow and you know as as a young girl, um, there are probably parts of you that were triggered by some of the things or some of the behaviors and just like I mean, also the fact that she's your first child, right? So no matter what kid it is, whether they're adopted or not, um whether you know they don't have a past, um but it's coming into your past but they're not children always reflect parts of us that are like things that we wrestle with maybe and things that you know we have proud of and we're doing well, but I make dinner for myself.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

What I really need is hands on her health. Um I can be very obsessive over Zoe's academics. My daughter goes to a really great private school. I'm very involved, um, and I can be very critical of her grades. I want Zoe to have everything I never had, and that firstborn thing, you put a lot of pressure on. You're going to be amazing. And so, you know, Zoe gets really good grades and she's very driven, and she she's a very um disciplined little girl. My husband, my husband had a very different academic career. He school came really easy to him, you know, and he didn't have to try very hard. I tried really hard and I struggled. And so my husband will say to me, he goes, She doesn't have to get straight A's. I'm like, but she could. And I have this. And like, if she could, then why wouldn't she? Why wouldn't she should be in the national honor? You know, I've never been on the honor roll in my whole life. I'm like, and I cannot wait until Zoe, and I she probably will, you know, be on the honor roll. I'm probably gonna cry and you know, so um I need to be careful of that because the whole joke about we live vicariously through our kids, that's true, you know, and so I would love to see Zoe succeed in ways that I never did. I really need to be careful because I can I can validate my own struggle and my own success with her success. And so that's something my husband and I we we we really work through that. Um, he actually does her homework with her because I can get like really charged up. Um, I go to school for like parent-teacher conferences, and I'm a very outgoing extrovert, so I have a lot of those relationships. Um, but there's an intensity when I'm helping her with her homework because I really want every I wanted to, I want to help her as much as I can so she can have as many opportunities as possible. My husband's like, like, I think you're she's in the second grade. He's like, you're taking this away, you're taking this way too seriously. So again, there's an area of okay, you know, do I need to obviously I'm being triggered by something. Do I need to work through that? Um, I went to a parent teacher conference recently, and the teacher, I thought she was a little harsh. And so I actually um reached out to the guidance counselor on staff, and I was very honest. I said, I'm feeling defensive and judgmental of this teacher, and you know, and and I said, you know, I struggled. Can we evaluate her learning style? And she looked at me and she's like, Zoe has straight days. I think the teacher's like a little off here. And she's like, But if you are emotional, thank you for reaching out to me. And so I had to give it a couple days, then I sent an email to the teacher just to kind of check in on some of those things. My husband's like, who cares what the teacher says? You know, he has so much confidence. But I'm I still I still find myself that little girl, you know, you know, that little poor orphan girl living in a trailer without a mom, you know, and so I need to make sure as a mom I'm operating in a healthy way, you know, I'm not that little girl anymore. Right. Um just to measure my emotions and I need to be responding to people, not reacting to people. Um, but that's a that's a whole new because I mean my daughter's in second grade. We're like really doing school now. This isn't just like kindergarten school. So my husband, so you know, so he'll tell me, you know, don't take this so seriously. You're really putting unnecessary pressure on her. And if you do that, you actually may get a negative result versus something positive. So I want to be the supportive voice to her, not um a judgmental voice. So new part of new new phase of my new phase of my journey.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yeah, well, that's so mature of you to recognize like, hey, I don't want to do that because it can be a negative, you know, outcome versus you're trying to like, I want my daughter to have as many opportunities as she can. And and that is essentially like your motive for that in a sense, right? But it can also be really like a high pressure, and then she feels like, oh, I have to uh do all these things for my mom because you know, whatever, whatever. So yeah. If someone's listening and they feel trapped by their past or their family history, what would you want them to know?

Choosing Adoption And Why India

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Um I had somebody when I was in college, um so powerful, they said to me, God loves you, which I knew that he said, He's so sorry. You know, God loves us, and we're told we shouldn't want pity in the world. But I think we all need to be told like what happened to you wasn't okay. I wish it never would have happened. I'm sorry. Because we can almost put glitter on it and we can put Jesus glitter on it, or we can put self-empowerment glitter on it and go, I wouldn't be the woman I am if that had not happened to me. I don't know that. You know, I mean, God created me, you know, I was created out of adversity, but God loved me, and I do believe that, you know, I didn't, I wish I wouldn't have my past. So there's been a lot of redemption, but I think that sometimes we can, you know, almost like reverse it to go, oh, the things that happened to me that were bad are a badge of honor. So I wouldn't, that's the one thing I would say is I'm sorry, I wish that never would have happened. However, now that that has, um, I would the first thing I would say to somebody, um, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is Romans 5. Um, I'm gonna read it. It says, We also glory in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character, character, hope, and hope does not put us to shame because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. But with that verse, it's a choice. Perseverance takes a lot of courage, takes a lot of energy, trauma therapy, journaling, forgiveness. Maybe you need to move, maybe you need to move. Maybe you had a really you were attacked, or there was an abusive situation in this town, and you physically need to get up and leave that place. That's gonna cost money and time and logistics. Um, that will develop character, and then that character will develop hope. Um, I do believe that. And so I would say to those people, it doesn't define you find support, find resources, do the work to then turn that adversity into perseverance to create hope and then be generous with it. That's some of the best healing I've ever had is generosity. I'll tell you, we're very blessed now financially. Um, we actually have an educational grant in India. It's called the Makarios Fund, and we brought Zoe home. Um, the Bible verse really rang in my heart, who much is given, much is required. And um, you know, we give financially, we support, we actually we subsidize kids that are going to school. Um, there are a lot of wonderful people that are doing missional work and planting churches, and they are they live really live on the margins. Um, and so your dollar goes really far, very, very far in India. So we've spent we've sent over 100 kids to school. Um, and so we've got preschoolers and elementary school and middle school and high schoolers. Now their mothers have reached out, they're like, We've never been educated, you know. Can we get a scholarship? Um so we're we're working on that. But um, you know, I've never been on honor roll, and you know, but the red, you know, but the but the redemption of that is um not only Zoe's success, and our younger our our three-year-old Emerson, um, she's a force, child is force. Um, um, to go, okay, can I help other little girls learn and succeed? Um, you know, and so the more that I help other people, I actually find it very healing in myself. Um, it's almost like a salve to your soul. I think generosity can really open up a lot in your heart. Uh, you can't give what you don't have. Right. So again, what I would say is I'm so glad I had those convictions as a high schooler to go, I need education, I need a job, I need some skills, you know, because I want to give people, I can serve people with my time, but um if we can educate people that are in poverty in the US or in the third world, uh education is a great way to unlock poverty. And so that's one of our biggest convictions. Um, and we can help fund that now, which I'm which I'm so thankful about. And a lot of my company, 10% of all of the proceeds of with all of my clients goes to the Mercarios fund. Um, and we also support a human trafficking organization, and then there's an organization in Ohio, they run halfway houses and they help people um overcoming addiction. And so, you know, I never felt brave enough to work with people that are overcoming addiction like my mom did, but I love that we can support it's called Good Works in Ohio, and they're helping get people off the streets and to restart their life. And so giving to organizations that are helping people like myself, you know, the things I overcame as a child, another it's another part of my redemption. It's another part of my healing. Um, so I'm so thankful that I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Well, you're so bravely for sharing a story and also just working on your own healing journey because it is a lot, it's hard work, it's not easy. Um, you know, it's brave to be vulnerable, right? Even sitting in the office as a therapist and really wanting a better outcome and a better future, and um to break those patterns takes a lot of work. So I'm really proud of you. And thank you for not only working through that, but getting to a place in your life where you can be an incredible contributor to society and making an impact for the good or for good. So I love that. Um, I'm gonna wrap up the podcast by asking you the questions I usually ask all my listeners, which is um, what is a piece of advice that someone gave you that is the best piece of advice?

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Such a good um such a good question. Um this might sound really, really cheesy, but I think it's the truest thing I could say. Um God loves you, He created you with a purpose. You're not a mistake. You are meant to be here right now. And when we carry that, it will really that that keeps me going more than anything else, you know. I'm not a drug baby doorphin. I'm a bright, smart woman. God created me with a purpose, and I'm here to give back and love the world and make the world a better place. Um, I also love Brene Brown, she has a phrase, she says, show up and be seen. And that's so hard. It sounds so simple, but sometimes it's like I'm just gonna show up, whether that's at counseling or in your marriage, you know, I'm gonna go make dinner, we're gonna sit at the table, and it might be chaos, but we're gonna sit here and we're gonna be here. Yeah, we're gonna um, you know, just showing up. Um, because again, it's really easy to run away and to hide from things. Yeah. So very good. Those are two things I definitely live by, keep me going.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Yeah, and um, what is the bravest thing you've ever done?

SPEAKER_02 53:32

The bravest thing I've ever done um was adopt Zoe. Um I remember vividly, so we actually we went to India and we were in country for about seven days. We had to do some legal things to bring her home. Um and I remember we had to go to the embassy a few times, and the second time I was actually by myself. And I remember walking in there and I just felt I felt bulletproof. I felt like a badass. I felt so confident, and I remember just laughing because I was so terrified. I'm just like, I'm so glad I got on the bus every day and I went to school. I'm so glad I showed up in counseling. I'm so glad, you know, I walked away from bad friendships, I'm so glad I ran away from bad boyfriends, you know, and every every step of that. I remember um when they gave us her visa and they said, Here you go. And then that was the ticket to actually get on the plane the next day, and then we came home and we were um in the Dulles Airport, and there's this huge flag, and we had a police escort, and he said, Welcome home. And that's when I felt that reminder of who much is given, much is required. I'm like, All right, I've I survived, and um, I'm so thankful. So I didn't know back then, but um, so so worth it. And I would bet I'm only 36, so you know, Lord willing, in 20 years, I have a whole other testimony, other story to go. I was so glad in my 30s I worked through those things as a mom because my prayer is that someday my daughter has when she's telling her testimony, when she's talking about how brave she was and how strong she is and how healed she is, she can talk about hopefully I can inspire her.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Yeah.

Bringing Zoe Home And Redefining Identity

SPEAKER_02 55:12

So my mom showed me what courage looks like, and now Zoe is courageous. And Emerson, my second daughter, is courageous and the impact that Zoe's gonna have. So I really need to be. I'm glad I was brave for her so that she can be brave and her children can be brave. And we're breaking you a talk about generational cycles. Um, never done drugs, never smoked marijuana. Um, I think it's really important. That was an area of my life. I thought genetically, I'm so disposed to it, not even gonna touch it. I just I've got there's too much at risk. I'm just not gonna do it. Absolutely not. Um, so to create a a beautiful generation of strong, courageous women.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

I love that. And the last one is what are some books that impacted your life?

SPEAKER_02 55:57

So I actually wrote this down. Um, I'm not a big bookworm. I do read. I'm more of like self-help, um, but I don't read a lot of like novels and stuff. So first book, it's cheesy, but I feel like it just has to be said. Um the Bible is very important. The thing I find about the Bible is it's really big and can be intimidating. So, what I do is I read a little book, it's old, it's called My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers, and it's a verse, and then it's about a paragraph, and he's real punchy and intense. I like like very direct. Try to read that every day. Um, that's to like build into my faith um to my emotional health. Brene Brown wrote a book called Rising Strong. I think she wrote about 10 years ago. She talks a lot about shame, and in that book, she talks about um the stories we tell ourselves and how we overcome shame, tremendously helpful. Um, the book starts, she talks about the man in the arena. It's not the critic who counts, but the man who is, you know, marred and sweating with blood face in in the arena. Um, that's something that really helped me bring words to that. And now as a mom, I'm reading a book right now by Dr. Eamon. It's called Raising Mentally Strong Kids. It is, it's convicting, it's very hard to read. And the premise of it is you yourself have to be mentally strong to raise a mentally strong child. You can't give what you don't have. And so I'm only on chapter, I think I'm on chapter six right now. And I was looking for someone to give me like a cheat sheet, a roadmap to how can I, again, a lot of pressure on Zoe. How can I make Zoe amazing? Perfect. And the whole premise is like you yourself need to create good healthy habits in your life to then impact your kids and imprint your kids with those healthy habits. Um, so working on that, I'm working on lifting weights, sleeping, water, um, vitamin supplements, balancing my hormones, all of those fun things.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

Um, but um again, those are those are three books right now that have helped me in the past that I I revisit a lot.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing, Lee. Is there anything else you'd like to add that I haven't asked you or um you'd love to share with the listener before we No, I just um you did a great job.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Thank you for having me. I'm also I want to say too, so inspired by your story, and I love the way that you have redeemed really hard things in your family's past. And um, you know, you are very brave and courageous, so thank you so much. Um, it's we need to really stick together. I think it's important that strong women keep other women strong.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

Um so yeah, so thank you so much. Oh, thank you, Lee. I appreciate that. All right. Well, thank you for your time. Yes, have a good day.