Why You Feel Stuck (And It’s Not Because You’re Weak) | Trey Tucker

What if the biggest threat to your future isn’t fear…isn’t failure…but distraction?

And what if the reason you feel stuck isn’t laziness  but unresolved wounds quietly shaping your identity?

Today we sit down with licensed therapist and author Trey Tucker to talk about purpose, trauma, masculinity, and the lie of “not good enough.” This isn’t self-help fluff. It’s practical tools for building real strength, and solid identity.

Trey Tucker touches on a few important points.

• Why chasing happiness makes it harder to find, and what to pursue instead
• How distraction rewires your brain and weakens your sense of purpose
• The difference between toughness and true strength
• How EMDR therapy “files” traumatic memories so they stop hijacking your present
• Why “I’m not good enough” is often born from small misinterpreted moments
• A practical way to test the stories you tell yourself
• How to build identity through daily evidence instead of feelings
• The distinct role fathers and mothers play in shaping resilience

If you’ve been busy but not fulfilled… productive but not peaceful… this conversation is for you.

Connect with Trey Tucker:

www.ruggedcounseling.com

Transcript

Meet Trey Tucker And His Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Wants a Dear Podcast. I'm your host, Becca. And I absolutely loved the conversation with Trey Tucker, who's a licensed mental health therapist with over 10 years of experience in helping people achieve fulfillment, joy, and satisfaction in life. He's also worked with corporate leaders, entrepreneurs, students, parents, and various organizations to help maximize performance and improving people's mental health. But before Trey became a therapist, he was working in the corporate world and had a master's degree in business administration. And so in that corporate world, he didn't really find satisfaction. He wanted to make a much greater impact on humanity, which is why he went on to study psychology, opening his practice. And most recently he wrote a book called Tough Enough On Your Habits, Cultivate Purpose, and Forge Genuine Strength, which comes out in February, but you can pre-order it today. And I loved the way that Trey started off his book. Distraction is the enemy of everything you're capable of becoming. I'm going to say that again. Distraction is the enemy of everything you're capable of becoming. This is an incredible conversation that's practical, that's real, and I think you're going to learn a thing or two about yourself today. Enjoy. Hey friends, welcome to the Once For Dare podcast where stories of courage are elevated. I'm your host, Becca, and every other week you'll hear interviews from inspiring people. My hope is that you will leave encouraged. I'm so glad you're here. Trey Tucker, welcome to the Ones With Your podcast. I am so excited to have you on here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Me too. Appreciate you having me. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, so before we get into your book, Tough Enough, about honing in your habits, cultivating purpose, and forging genuine strength, I really would love the guests to know a little bit more about who you are.

From MBA To Mental Health

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, I my job is I'm a licensed therapist, but I really try hard to make sure that I don't start conflat configurating my job with my identity because men tend to do that a lot. We just you ask them, like, hey, who are you? They'll either tell you their name or their job. And then if you ever hear two men talking to each other, we immediately go to, well, what do you do for a living? Because we don't we don't do well with small talk. So so I really that's what the therapy is, what I do. But as far as like who I am, I feel like my I look at purpose, and so I'll just go diving into the deep end right away with you. I love helping people figure out who they are and then help them maximize who they think they've been created to be. So how do I get you from if you feel like you're here, but you feel like you can be here, then how do I help you close that gap? And I can do that through therapy, but I can also do that in a number of other ways. So I uh I just I've always loved listening to people more than talking. So interviews like this are always exhausting for me, but they're definitely worthwhile. So I'm used to being the one asking the questions and doing the nodding and the smiling. But yeah, that's that's me in a in a nutshell from a 30,000-foot view. But there's there's plenty more we could get into as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, I'm also curious too what caused you to pivot your career from being in the corporate world, having a master's in business administration to becoming a therapist. That's a very different sector.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah, you know, so when I was in high school, the counselor at my school, truly like an angel on earth. I mean, he he just made everybody feel welcome. And if you were having a bad day, you knew you could go talk to him and things were gonna at least boost up just a little bit. And I just I saw the impact that he had and I had it in the back of my mind, like I want to have that kind of impact on people. But long story short, I decided to try the business world first just to see if I would like it or if I would find fulfillment there, because I knew usually working in the mental health world, you ain't gonna make a ton of money. So I thought, all right, let me try the corporate world. And I did. And I I I learned a ton. I learned mostly how not to run a business because the business I was a part of was kind of on the way down. But I also met people that became huge mentors for me. And long story short, I realized if if we're chasing money or fame, we're actually, and research even supports this. But in my experience before the research, I realized chasing after money in that case, it really just leaves me even less fulfilled than before. And research shows that when you chase money or fame, about a year later you realize you're actually reporting less, lower well-being scores. And so after a couple of years in the corporate world, I realized I learned a ton of stuff. I think I can use it maybe some somewhere down the line, but this was not gonna fulfill me. I was waking up every morning and I just didn't, I didn't feel like I was really contributing to anything or anyone, just going through the same thing over and over. And I've got friends who still work in the corporate world and they make so much more money than I do, but they hate their life Monday through Friday. They are just they're just waiting for the weekend, and I'm like, you know what, keep the huge paycheck if that's what that's what the trade-off is. So yeah. Um so that's that's why I did it. I just realized it it's just it wasn't fulfilling.

Chasing Happiness Vs Finding Meaning

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, and I'm curious too. You see a wide range of people. I know uh one of your primary focuses men. Um that's really your passion is to see men elevate and reach their maximum potential. Um, but I'm curious from all the people that you see in your practice today, what is the common thread that you see people struggle with in our in our modern world?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

One of them is what I was just talking about is chasing after either something like money or fame. But really, the the biggest flaw that I hear in a lot of people's thinking is that they're they say, I just want to be happy, I'm trying to be happy. And the more you chase happiness, the actually the lower the chances that you are of gonna of getting it. So if you chase meaning and purpose, then happiness gets thrown in for free. Because, you know, if if I just say like, I want to get in shape, I really want to get in shape, and I'm gonna think really hard about getting in shape, and like, unless I actually do the steps that resulted me getting in shape, it's not gonna come. So that's that's one of the biggest things. And I think social media has a lot to do with this because a lot of the message, it it nest it doesn't necessarily do this consciously, but it subconsciously starts getting you focused on like, how am I doing today? What am I getting today? What are people doing for me today? Are people holding up with my boundaries that I've set? And it's just it turns into this navel gazing. And if if trying to be happy is my main goal, and I'm watching a bunch of social media videos that keep reinforcing the fact that I need to check on how I'm doing and am I loving myself well, it's just more and more focus on self. It's actually one of the biggest causes of depression. So I try to help people realize all right, there's a bigger story going on around us. So let's see how do we play a role in that bigger story because this whole danger of main character syndrome where I think the world's revolving around me, it seems good at the first at the start, but as I start to actually walk that out, it's it's empty. But a lot of times until somebody helps us and kind of says, hey, like check your vision, check some perspectives over here, maybe look at some other ways of living. We don't really even know that we're stuck in that. So long answer to a short question.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

So I'd love for you to kind of help us understand a little bit of the aspect of self-care and putting yourself as a priority for growth and all of that versus being self-focused and the difference between the two and how do we navigate that and what's the healthy approach to all of it?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah, yeah. That's this is oh, I can geek out on this stuff. I'm glad you asked that. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Hey, my audience love to go deep. They're like, we listen to this podcast because you don't, you know, you go right in. So that's what they're here for.

Self‑Care Without Self‑Absorption

SPEAKER_00 7:49

No waste of time. So yeah, I think it it's you have to take care of yourself. There's there's just no doubt about that. But if the end goal is just taking care of yourself for the sake of yourself and your own benefit, then it's it's gonna be, I don't know how many people have have any kind of experience with like changing an outlet or a light receptacle, but electricity only works well when it can flow in and then out again. Electricity really gets dangerous when it just flows in and there's nowhere for that electricity to go back out again. So if we're just self-care, self-care, self-care, and we're just pouring into ourselves, it's it's we get clogged up, and a lot of times we don't know why, because on the outside, it's like, well, I'm sleeping well and I'm eating well and I'm exercising and I'm like I'm meditating and all these good habits. But if I'm not actually then pouring it out into somebody else, it's just starting to rot inside me because I'm getting positive benefits, but we're not wired to hold those benefits. We're just wired to be literally a wire or a conduit of those gifts and those blessings. So, yeah, definitely take care of yourself because the opposite end of that spectrum is some people they focus so much on always pouring out and always pouring out, and you know, there's some different psychological reasons for that, but eventually they get burned out because they they're trying to dig up stuff in them to give out, and there ain't nothing there. So it's like trying to crank a car that that's battery's dead, it just ain't gonna work either. But so yeah, there has to be a focus on okay, what am I ultimately living for? Am I ultimately living for other people's benefits and the impact I want to make on them? Or am I just trying to get as much money and things and happiness as I can? Because if I'm just trying to get all I can, we're gonna be left empty and trying to figure out ways to distract ourselves out of that emptiness.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, that's so good. This reminds me of a study that was done, and um, I don't not sure who the study belongs to, but essentially the study went something like this is they took two groups of people, and one group of people they said, hey, create a bucket list of all the things you ever wanted to do, you know, just your dream bucket list. So whether it was, you know, skydiving in Nevada or you know, going and hiking somewhere in Pentagonia or wherever that was. And um, and that group got to go and do and execute their one item on their bucket list. And they measure the happy list happiness level from before and from after. And then they set another group and they said, think of someone who impacted your life and write a letter to that person. And we want you to go and read that letter in person to this person. And then they measure their happiness level from before and after. And guess which group? Happiness level lasted so much longer.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

It's great. There's excitement, there's a dopamine like yay, I did the thing. But when there is a level of impact, and the other thing too that I think about is I believe that we are made to create, connect and contribute. And I think sometimes when one of the three areas is off, we tend to feel empty inside because like you said, we're not meant to just hold everything in and then we feel like, uh, why am I not satisfied? There's something that's really off.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Create tell me those three words again, create, connect, and what was the third? Contribute. Contribute. Okay. Yeah, you you got the alliteration going on. I'm impressed. Where tell me about the create part because uh I uh uh honestly, we men, we don't do a great job of creating.

Create, Connect, And Contribute

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Well, essentially we're all meant to be creative in some way, and not everyone considers themselves a creative because you know you may not be into art or music and then that or a writer, and that you think, well, I'm not one of those things, so I'm not a creative, but we all have a creative um instinct within us. So we're all able to create something, whether you know it's something that we're passionate about, how we serve people in one way or another, we're able to create something of beauty or something of meaning and something that brings us joy. And usually in that creation, it's a contribution to the world or humanity in some way or form.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah, and that it's it reminds me a lot of we miss out on beauty so often because we're so busy or for whatever reasons. And so if you can create that beauty, then man, that what fulfillment and benefit could come from that. Because I I tell people there's especially with with guys, there's really two things that kind of awaken our souls. One of them is beauty and the other one is pain. And without those two things, we kind of tend to go through the motion. So instead of waiting on the pain of life to hit you, I try to remind myself and especially other guys that hey, let's let's just look around, let's find the beauty around us. But back to the creating thing. I feel like, man, if we would notice the beauty around us more, we'd probably be more inspired to create too.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I'm curious, you said pain and beauty. Which one is the most common and effective one in men? Is it the pain?

SPEAKER_00 12:53

I mean, it depends on the situation, like always, but uh honestly, yeah, pain, pain tends to um jolt us in in the more severe way and can then lead to something sustainable. But if it's just pain all the time without beauty, then eventually we just get overwhelmed and beaten down. So yeah, I guess probably the bigger shots come from the pain in terms of the awakening, but then we still need the little uh blips of beauty along the way to sustain.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Okay, and so when you say beauty, tell me more about that. What is what are you referring to that beauty?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, I I don't think there's there needs to be a really put-in-one box definition. This could be noticing nature. This could be like literally noticing the beauty in someone else, whether it's their physical beauty or their internal traits. This could be artwork, this could be uh the beauty of something that's funny. Uh I mean any anything that anything that you notice that just kind of, I don't know, it bypasses the brain and goes to the heart and just puts you in your feels a little bit, that's that's probably beauty. And then you can describe what version of beauty from there once you notice it. But that sometimes we get so in our head that we don't even notice what's happening going on in our nervous system and in our heart. So I try to help myself. And this was a breakthrough for me is just taking the time to notice what's going on inside me. And when I started realizing that, then I was able to connect it to okay, I'm feeling a certain way, and now what was it out there that might have had something to do with it? And so often it was just little moments of what I would call beautiful things or beautiful people or just beautiful occurrences.

Beauty, Pain, And Men’s Awakening

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I want to get into your book a bit, and uh, but before that, you are certified as an EMDR, and I know there's some people that are familiar with that and some are not. So I'd love for you to tell us about it, why you chose to be certified in it, um, and why it's something that you use in your practice. At the Once a Day Podcast, giving back is part of our mission, which is why we proudly sponsor Midwest Food Bank. Here's why. Midwest Food Bank Pennsylvania distributes over$25 million worth of food annually, completely free of charge to over 200 nonprofit partners across PA, New York, and New Jersey, reaching more than 330,000 people in need. Through their volunteer-driven model and innovative food rescue programs, they turn every single dollar donated into$30 worth of food. Now that's amazing. Join us in supporting this cause. To learn more or to give, go to Midwestfoodbank.org slash Pennsylvania.

EMDR Explained And When It Helps

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, so EMDR is one of the only ways that I've found to actually help people get to the subconscious part of their brain. There are certain types of things that you can go to a therapist for, and talking about them is literally not going to do anything good. It might just leave you numb or neutral. Sometimes talking about certain things out loud actually makes you worse. If there's certain types of trauma that are massively severe, you don't need to be talking about them out loud a whole lot. You need to actually deal with the subconscious root because when you talk about stuff, it just hits the front of the brain, which is the conscious brain. And then when you're doing stuff like in EMDR or IFS, which is internal family systems, then you're actually accessing the back of the brain, that subconscious stuff. And that's where the root is. And I just, I went a few years as a therapist and I realized all of my tools that I was taught in grad school, not all of them, but a lot of them, they were mostly talking. And I was helping people, but I just I realized like I was getting, I was getting like this much help form, but there was still that gap. And I realized that gap was that we weren't quite getting the root of the issue, which is in their subconscious. So long story short, EMDR works with either eye movements to your left and to your right, or tapping your shoulders or tapping your knees, but basically it's that what they call bilateral stimulation, the left and the right movement. And that that has a way of basically like kicking up the dust in the subconscious of things that have kind of settled too far down in there. And that movement brings stuff up to the surface that needs to be processed. And it helps you, it helps a lot of people that have really traumatic moments, not necessarily like months or years of smaller traumas piled up, but really like one or two major moments of trauma. It takes it takes that moment of trauma and it and it brings it like if you're living your day-to-day life, and let's let's say this traumatic event happened 10 years ago, but your brain is really bringing it up all the time because it hasn't really gotten a way to um to put a time stamp on it. So just you're thinking about it, it's kind of always right there in the forefront of your thoughts while you're living your life. It emdr has a way of helping it to kind of move out here. Like you don't forget that it happens, but it's not as severe, it doesn't have as much of a charge to it. So the the another way to look at it is it takes memories and it puts them in a filing cabinet for you because when it's trauma, your brain gets overwhelmed and it doesn't really know what to do with it. So it either has you constantly thinking about it, or it's gonna try to repress it so hard, and you know something's down there, something's not right, even though if you you're not really sure what it is, but you're just not able to function as well because your brain's having to work so hard to try to keep it repressed. So EMDR can either surface what needs to be surfaced or take what's right in front of your face and and pull it outward.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, that's great. I think if I remember correctly, was it a woman that discovered it while she was walking and her eyes? Do you know a little more about that? Her the like the the origin of EMDR.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah, and uh some of the details are gonna escape me because it's been a while. But yeah, I think from what I remember, she was sitting in a park and she was feeling anxious and she didn't know why. And for whatever reason, she was like looking down at the grass, and she just started moving her eyes left and right as she was looking at the grass, and she realized after a few seconds of doing it, she felt less anxious. And so she just kind of went and followed that that lead to figure out like, what is this? How did I just stumble on this? It literally was that lucky of just stumbled upon it, and then we realized, oh my goodness, the brain and the body have this almost secret button to help you process stuff that we never discovered before.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Isn't that amazing how one person has an aha moment and now it's like transforming millions of people through this therapy method?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I know, I know. It's it's wild. And I I will say that it works great for the people that it works for. And then for some people, it doesn't work at all. And they don't really know exactly why there's there's guesses on why that might be. But um, if you if somebody wants to try it, don't beat yourself up because it's not like you're doing something wrong. So um the other thing is it it usually works better for somebody that has, like I say, those major moments of of trauma that they're trying to deal with instead of a lot of little moments, because other there are other modalities that are better for the smaller moments, we'll just put it that way, without getting too deep.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, I got you. Well, I'd love to get into your book, Tough Enough, which you did write um with the men being the target audience for that. Um, and I love the way you start off your book. I feel like we can just really dig into this topic here. You say that um it was a powerful sentence that you started with, which is distraction is the enemy of everything you're capable of becoming.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Wow. Yeah, it's it's first of all, a lot of these lessons I learned the hard way through my own stupid decisions. And so when I was looking back on my own story, I I thought, man, whether it was video games when I was an early teenager, or sports in to an excess when I was in high school or even in college, or whether it was uh trying to get attention from girls, or anything I could do to put the focus outside of me in an unhealthy way, so that I wouldn't have to confront some of the stuff, some of the junk that was in me. I just realized, man, I was delaying my own growth, and therefore I was delaying my own purpose and then the fulfillment that comes from that. And so I wanted that first chapter to be about like, hey, look, you're actually trying these these companies like social media companies and anybody else that's trying to vie for your attention, they're just trying to use you as a puppet. And nobody wants to be used as a puppet. In fact, I found that's a really motivating thing in my therapy sessions individually, is like showing people whether it's let's say it's nicotine companies or anything like that, they're they're trying to do these these three or four psychological tricks on you so that they can get their hook in you and make you do whatever you want, just like a puppet. And then people are like, uh uh, I ain't I ain't doing that. So when you realize it's really a game just to try to get your attention and hijack your attention span to distract you, then it becomes I've I've noticed at least a lot of men they Start to make changes when they realize they're in a battle. And the battle for their mind is one of the biggest ones.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah. And I mean, our world today is designed with so many distractions. I feel like there's never been a time in history where we have access to so much. And yet so many of us are so disconnected to who we are. I know I can fall into that as well. And um so you know, I I'm that's something that I struggled with is distractions as well, because whether it's social media or just your cell phone alone. I mean, from the I have uh, you know, group text with the family, with this group, with that group, and it's like by the time you get through all that, you could have wasted hours of your precious time. And time is the one something that we can never get back, and we don't know how much we have left of our time. So that yeah, I think that's that's huge. So when I read that, I was like, wow, it is the enemy of everything you're capable of becoming. So what yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Well, I'm glad you mentioned connection because we with these devices, we feel connected to our friends or family or just strangers in general, but we're actually disconnected because we could be in the same room as somebody or at the same table. And instead of actually looking at each other in the eye and really getting to know each other, we're on these things at least half the time when we're sitting in the same space. So we're we're not connected, even though we think we are. But yeah, it's it really is. I think if if we um somebody was joking, like, what if somehow all the internet got knocked out in the country? What would be what would we do? I'd be like, well, probably for about three months we'd be freaking out, but then after about three months, we'd realize, like, oh, we did our ancestors did this for thousands of years. We're we're gonna be fine because actually we're getting the real connection with just what we need to really become our our true selves.

Why Trey Wrote Tough Enough

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know too what inspired you to write your book tough enough. Um, I know having a practice, you know, I'm sure you're busy and writing a book is a whole other pro other undertaking. Um, so I'm curious to see what was your defining moment when you realized this is something that you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

And yeah, I I kept so every every individual appointment I would have, especially with a man, I was trying to think of, okay, what what book can I have him read that's gonna take him through some steps that's actually gonna be helpful? And I I thought of like 10 different books because there'd be one chapter out of this one, another chapter out of that one. And I thought, well, okay, there's there's nothing, there's not one book that that can give them everything that they need to get all in one stop. So I thought, well, if there's not one, let me just see if I can write one. And that's that's the goal. And then I tried to write it in a way that keeps in mind that a lot of guys we don't want to read very much. So so I tried to, it's the type of book where you don't have to read it from start to finish. You can look through the table of contents and see, all right, these are maybe the two or three spots that I need to read about the most. And then later down the road, if you want to read the other chapters, great. But I just I wanted to give men an easily accessible guide that I try to give guys that that I'm in relationship with, like in a mentor type of relationship. So I just tried to replicate those conversations in the pages of a book.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

That's really good. And your book, too, you challenge men to face their fears instead of running from them. What is the one fear that you see most often with men?

The Not Good Enough Script

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, the the main fear is that I'm not good enough. That voice in a lot of us, and it happens in women too, because I talked to my female clients about it as well, is that that voice is just not good enough. And especially it strikes different in the heart of a man a lot of times because we can we can very quickly build our value on how useful we are to the world. And there is some benefit in that, but if that's the only reason we think we have value is just how much I can produce and how much I can come through, and it's it's eventually gonna crash because there's always that voice in the back of your head, like, nah, you ain't good enough, you don't measure up, you don't have what it takes to actually be the kind of man that people need you to be. So helping them realize, okay, what is that voice? Where is it coming from? Where did it even start in your story? Because if you can actually find the root of that and kind of process it out of the way, then you really are freed up to become fully become that person that you were made to be.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, that's really good. And not good enough, that is that's a really, really big struggle. I mean, there's that that's huge. Why why do you think people feel like they're not good enough? What is it about? What are some like root causes that you find that are more common than not that get to have that narrative?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, part of my story is in terms of how that voice of not good enough got in there was rejection. And so many people that I've talked to have that same root. Is that I never had major massive moments of rejection, but I can think back and I could tell you stories of little moments that just seemed to start slowly adding up to where as I look back, I had this mountain of evidence of like, wait a minute, all these people rejected me? So that what does that mean? That must mean I'm not good enough, right? Well, maybe not, maybe that's not the meaning. So, so like when I was in fourth grade, I was the only new student at my school. Everybody else had been together since kindergarten, and it was first day of school. So I'm nervous. Like, am I gonna fit in? Are they gonna like me? All the kind of typical first day of school jitters. And I remember first class was gym class, and I remember walking down some steps to get to the gym. And as I walked in, I noticed most of my classmates were sitting in a circle with each other, both guys and girls. And as I got up to that circle, one of the guys looked up at me, and this is fourth grade, mind you, so it was kind of a clever insult, but he goes, Damn, I'm glad I'm not looking into a mirror right now. And I'm like, whoa, I I don't know what just happened. I something in my chest felt like it opened up like a vacuum. I felt like I wanted to like drop through a trapdoor and disappear into the floor because the guys were laughing at me, the girls were laughing at me, and it just felt like this tidal wave of rejection. Now, I look back and I realized a couple things. Number one, that's pretty clever for a fourth grader to think of. And then number two, somebody probably insulted him with that same insult because he wouldn't have come up with that. So that trauma kind of gets passed on, and I just happened to be next in line, and he had no idea really what that did to me in that moment. I had no idea what that did to me in that moment. But when I looked back, I realized like in that moment, I came away with a couple conclusions that weren't correct. One of the conclusions was number one, you're not good enough. Number two, whenever you're the new person in any kind of situation, you're probably gonna get rejected. So therefore, just try to avoid being the new person whenever you can. And that it made me a whole lot more shy than I used to be. I remember like before fourth grade, I remember doing things and talking in in certain ways and like just kind of being more outgoing and kind of crazy as a kid. But I remember that was a moment in that timeline where from then on I was pretty shy. But I didn't realize that until my mid-20s. And so we have to look at our own stories and figure out, like, okay, maybe I don't have massive moments where like horrible things happened to me. But what were those things that's looking back seemed kind of insignificant? But maybe to a fourth grader with a brain that didn't understand everything well, maybe that was more flooding and more overwhelming than we would have thought. So everybody's got their own timeline and their own stories. And it's just finding those moments that maybe had more meaning than more meaning and impact than we thought originally.

Reframing Rejection And Meaning

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah, isn't it wild that some comment of some kid who's completely emotionally immature and is, you know, not aware of the impact of the words that they're saying can leave a lasting impact and adults struggle with some of those things of the past? How do you help someone deal with rejection? What is like something that, you know, for like in your case, you know, have having a bully in school or someone saying something, maybe that guy wasn't a bully, but just a smart aleck who liked to, you know, have snarky comments and jab at people, right? Um so how how does one overcome rejection in moments like that that were not, you know, super high trauma-based or the big T traumas as they call them, but at the same time, they reframe the way that you see yourself.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah, yeah. That's great question. There's never one particular path that works the same for everybody, but the gist of it is number one, helping them realize, like, okay, what were the conclusions that I took away from that moment? Like another way to say it is what meaning did I attach to that event? Because a lot of times the event isn't really what gets us stuck, it's it's the meaning that we attach to that event. Yes. And if we can help people see, like, okay, maybe it didn't mean that I was not good enough and I was always going to get rejected, because that's an assumption that's I mean, if I had that kind of superpower to be able to predict a future like that, then like my whole life would look different. But so we make all these assumptions and conclusions that we don't really have evidence for. So if we can examine those things that we assumed, we'll usually realize, like, okay, that wasn't true. And then you start to help people realize, like, okay, what is true about you? Like, what do you like about yourself? And just that question alone can be an eye-opener for people because uh I like to end my therapy appointments with two questions. I ask number one, what are two things you like about yourself? And then number two, what are two things you're grateful for and why? Because if you not to get off on too much of a tangent, but if you just say what you're grateful for without really feeling the gratitude, you don't really get the benefit. But if you say why you're grateful for something, it helps it to sink in. But when I ask them to to list two things they like about themselves, immediately they go silent. Like everybody. I've never had one person just list off two things in a row. So they'll start thinking, they'll look up and like I don't know. And I said, Well, what if I asked you to list two things you don't like about yourself? Would you be able to do that? Be like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I can do that. So so what I help them see is like they have things they like about themselves, they just don't pay attention to them because our brains, our brains are always looking for what's missing or something that's negative. Because our brains, our brains are not trying to keep us happy, our brains are just trying to keep us alive. So it sees something negative or something missing in ourselves, and it's gonna hyperfixate on that because it thinks it's some sort of threat that's gonna take us out. But the brain doesn't have to stay in that. You can actually retrain it to see the things that are positive about you, the moments where you have helped somebody, the moments where you've received praise, anything that helps you switch those meanings from no, that's actually not true, to something that is true.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

That's so good. You mentioned too that people feel like they um they're not enough. And also men feel the pressure to always have it together. How can vulnerability coexist with strength, strength, especially for those who grew up believing that emotion equals weakness?

Vulnerability As Real Strength

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah. Oh, so good, so good. So vulnerability is the brave way because it's actually a risk. And I mean, your whole show is about risk and courage. And if I just hide my emotions and hide my real self, I'm not taking a risk. I'm playing it safe because I'm putting up this fake version of me out here for the world to see. And I'm I'm way back here. The real me is way back here hiding so that I don't potentially get hurt or rejected or whatever. But the gutsy thing is put your real self out there and actually take the risk of, yeah, maybe somebody's not gonna like you. Like, okay, so there's millions of people in the world. So if one doesn't like you, big whoop. But the right I right. So I'm like, just just do the thing that's scary. And the thing that's scary, especially for guys, is showing some emotion every now and then and actually showing your real personality and your real ups and downs. And that I don't mean vomit on everybody and open up to every single person because not everybody's safe and they haven't earned that right. But yeah, if you're never showing your real self, even to your people that are in your inner circle, but you're you're starving. You're not getting the connection that you really need to thrive.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah. And I mean, there is I find it interesting too because generations before, you know, people around our age, right? Um the the grandfathers of of today, say so to speak. Um, it was very different. Where, you know, emotions weren't talked about. It was about toughness and strength and survival. And now there's a shift to being more in tune with your emotions. And I'm curious to know from you and seeing people and and doing the work that you do. Um what are some pros and cons to both? Because I feel like there's there's value in in one aspect, right? And then there's definitely value in the other. So how do we come to like a more well-rounded approach?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah, you're right. You gotta have both because there's certain moments where you can't sit there and show your emotions and actually be authentic. You just gotta get the freaking job done. I don't maybe that's a work situation or literally some sort of physical uh altercation that you gotta show up and be strong in, or whatever the case may be. Sometimes you you don't have time to process what's going on in you. You just gotta go do it. And I I always want men to lean into that part of themselves, especially because there's there is such an desire to take action in men and in women too, but it but especially if like if a if a man feels like he's stifled and unable to take action, there's just it just gnaws at him in ways that I don't see as much in others. So that's one thing is yes, keep that part of yourself that's action-oriented, that that gets the job done, and realize that in order to be effective in your actions, you also got to tend to your inner world. Because if you don't have any idea what's going on inside you, then you're not bringing your whole self to the fight. And we need a fight. Everybody, men and women, need a mission, a battle, and a purpose to fight for something that's bigger than ourselves, that's worthy of fighting for. And so it's kind of like the metaphor of like if you're on a flight and the flight attendants tell you in the event of an emergency, if the air mask drop down, put the air mask on yourself first and then on your child. Like you gotta take care of yourself. You gotta know what's going on in you first in order to then be effective for somebody else, because you can't give what you don't have. So yeah, you need both. You gotta be willing to look inside and ask yourself the hard questions and process the stuff that's asking to be processed so that you can then be effective for your purpose.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

That's so good. I'm curious too of uh what's something that surprised you the most in writing your book tough enough, either in your journey or in the stories that you um share in your in the book.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Man, that's a good question. I don't know that I've thought of that before. Something that surprises me. Um probably one of the biggest surprises was how many of us really a hundred percent of us have imperfect dads. And even the the slightest imperfections, like even if you took the best dads, they still weren't perfect. And so those imperfections always surprise me of how much of a gap that left in their son or daughter. And I'm talking about more not less about the book and more about the uh appointments that I have with people, just conversations in real life. It's like like my dad, for example, he was fantastic, and and his dad left him when he was five, so he had no real dad to show him then later how to be a dad himself. But he turned out to be an awesome father, and not but and because two things can be true, and because he didn't have a dad pouring into him, there were certain things that he just didn't know to tell me. And so one of those things was how do you deal with emotions? So a lot of times you become what you needed the most back then. And so I look back and I realized, like, oh yeah, if somebody had showed my dad how to deal with emotions, I probably would have recognized some of my own stuff. Maybe that fourth grade incident would have been, I would have noticed what effect had it had on me early, and maybe I would have dealt with it differently. But I didn't, so I'm here and I get to help people because of all that. So it's it's surprising to know how big of an impact dads have, both both positive and negative. And it's always fun to see how people take those gaps or those things that they wish would have been different and turn them into something positive and beneficial to others.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

That's interesting. It's interesting that you say a dad versus a mom. I would think too, with men, I mean, yes, it's important to have a male role model, right? And to know like how do I become a man and and that type of thing. But also I feel like a mom's role is is is really important too. And I'm not saying one is more important than the other. That's not but why do you think that it's it's for the men it's it's having the the male the father.

Fathers, Mothers, And Core Needs

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah. So first of all, moms are are equally important. There is no competition here. You gotta have both. And I I think one of the reasons that I I hear more about the the father wounds is that a lot of times a dad just typically, this is not everybody, so please don't get somebody don't get mad at me, but so many times dads are less equipped to actually parent well. And also dads are usually the ones, if if there's gonna be one parent that's around less, it's usually gonna be the dad because he's typically working more hours or traveling more, and so they're just and again, I'm not I'm not bashing all dads, but if if I have to say like where I see uh one parent maybe doing less of a good job than the other parent, it's it's the dads for multiple reasons. So, but moms are are critically important. In fact, I was gonna I was showing you this earlier, but I'll put on the screen this this is a piece of gum, and there's one piece of gum left in the packet, and this was the last packet of gum or last piece of gum that was in my mom's purse. She died of breast cancer a few years ago. And I keep this one piece because she loved this gum, and it's just for me, it's a it's a way to just hang on to her, a physical representation of her. And she, just like so many moms, she let me know that I was gonna be okay and that I was safe. And a dad, he can he can do that, he can let a child know that they're gonna be okay and that they're safe. But the dad usually is more of the one like you can do this, you're you're fine, go after it. The dad's usually the one pushing the child forward, and the mom is more the one that's bringing the child in and letting them know, hey, I love you, you're good, you're safe. And you gotta have both because I can't go attack my purpose and attack the world if I don't know that I'm safe. But if I'm always just playing it safe and always staying in the protective arms, then I'm never actually walking out my purpose. So you gotta have both.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah. And is that is it why kids, especially, you know, probably around teenage years or so, tend to emotionally vomit on their moms because they know they're safe and they're loved no matter what, versus their dads.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yes. I'm so glad you asked this. Okay, so yeah, the the emotionally vomiting, the dumping. So uh I do I do some work with high school students, and here's here's how it often happens something bad will happen to the kid, whether it's a failed test grade or you know, a bad practice or something, something that you know is gonna be okay, but it definitely hurts in the moment. The the kid will just have this overwhelming reaction in his head and it's gotta go somewhere. So he texts his mom all kinds of awful, scary things, not not necessarily harm, but like just almost that level of alarm, like, oh my gosh, he's devastated. He's not gonna, he's not gonna make it, just because he needed a vent for 30 seconds and he knew his mom was always the one listening and ready to give him a hug. So he sends that text, and then he puts down that phone and he turns around and it starts goofing off with his friends again because he was able to vomit and felt fine. And his friends then he can enjoy life. And then the mom's left with this text of, like, oh my gosh. So yeah, a kid, a kid is almost always doing that to his poor mother, and she's left with the mess and the disaster, thinking that things are falling apart, and really all the kid needed was a 30-second vomit session.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Okay, so in other words, if you're a mom and you're listening to this and your kid just emotionally spews on you, it's a compliment that they feel safe and they know you're gonna love them after they're done. Yes. Right, am I right? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

It is a compliment. It is a compliment, but they also need to learn to not do that to you because that's not fair to you. So they need to learn to choose their words more carefully, especially in a text when texting is so incomplete. Tell them to call you or you know, y'all figure out whatever your system is, but that's not fair for them to continue to do that to you.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah. Well, I really want to honor your time here as well. And I usually end my podcast with asking three questions. The first one is Trey, what is the bravest thing that you have ever done?

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Um I think it was I I I got the privilege of going on a a rescue mission to rescue girls who had been kidnapped into human trafficking.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And it the for me, the bravest part was seeing the conditions that these poor girls and and unfortunately boys too were in. And having to hold my reaction in. Because what I wanted to do to those people who were held help keeping them captive, I can't even put it into words, but I had to hold that in. And to see the pain physical and emotional that they were being tortured with, and the, oh yeah, to even start talking about it brings me to tears a lot of times. And so to hold my reaction in in those moments and also the physical risk that my team and I were in, that those were probably the bravest moments, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Wow, that's incredible. Um, what are three books that were pivotal to you in your life? It could be at any point in your life.

Teens, Safety, And Emotional Dumps

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Yeah. So the one that has hit me the most is a book by John Eldred. It's called Fathered by God. It takes a man through the stages of his life and shows him, okay, here's what your dad needed to have given you. But as we know, no dad's perfect. So here are the ways that God can fill in those gaps for you. And it's it's a really practical thing to look at, just to from boyhood to teenage years and on up. So that Father by God is one. Another one is um unbroken. Louis Zamperini's story of being kidnapped as a POW and then all the addiction issues that he dealt with, but then he turned his life around at the end and uh just helped thousands and thousands of people because of his own struggles, but the resilience that it took to push through and not give up through all the torture that was being inflicted upon him. Uh and then a book, a fiction book by Charles Martin. It's called Water from My Heart. It's about a guy who starts off as a drug runner down in Miami and just kind of living what he thinks is his best life. He's got freedom, he's got independence, but he starts to really mess things up for himself and the people around him. And the rest of the story is this redemption story where he turns things around both externally, but first has to figure out like, okay, what's what's in my heart? Something's clogged up in here. How do we get water flowing again? So for me, those are the three.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah, that's powerful. And what is the best advice that someone gave you?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Oh man, best advice. I love this one because I've had so many fun mentors and and really impactful mentors on me. So, best advice, gosh. I think best advice was one of my my granddad actually told me multiple times, like, hey, it's worth a shot. Like, just go for it. And it wasn't any, it wasn't like some long speech, but a lot of things, the simple short things can be the most profound. And I I've always kept that in my head of like, well, okay, why not? Why not just go for it? And so when I'm when I'm scared, and in those moments when I push through the fear, I remind myself, like, okay, what's the worst that's gonna happen here? So let's just let's just do it. Because I I've made it through tough stuff before. I'm probably gonna make it through whatever happens with this if it goes wrong.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, that's so good. It's so profound too. I mean, what do you have to lose, right? There's there's a um I love reframing risk sometimes where there's risk in not taking the risk.

unknown 47:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

You know, you're staying in the same place that you were, but you have nothing to lose if you do take the risk. I mean, depending on what you're doing, you know, some some people do crazy things. But in general, um, a lot of times if we're able to have the courage to just take the next step and see what happens, you discover there's a different opportunity, a different life awaiting for you. And you're you're gonna be the same if you don't, you know, take those challenges and take those risks. Is there anything, um Trey, that I haven't asked you that you would love to share with the audience before we close?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

No, you've you've been this has been such a fun interview. You're awesome at what you do. So I appreciate you doing this. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Well, um your book comes out tough enough in February, and um people can find it anywhere books are sold. Pre-orders are really important too. I love what you wrote in this book. I think it's such an important book, especially for men. Um and I'd love for you to just leave us with um something from your book that you want to leave the audience with that you just for you to love the impact that it'll make on the people.

Bravest Moment And Book Recs

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. And and this is stuff I tell people in person. So it's not even about the book. If if you don't get the book, that's fine too. So just know that there's there's really three things. Uh we started off talking about happiness and how people chase it. If you stop chasing happiness, but chase growing, giving, and gratitude. Because if you're growing and then if you're giving to something bigger than yourself, and then you're looking around and seeing what you're grateful for, then you're gonna be not just happy, but you're gonna be fulfilled and joyful because happiness comes and goes, it's on off, but fulfillment stays with you no matter what the circumstances are.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

I love that. That's really good. Well, Trey Tucker, where can people find you if they want to know more about you, your practice, your work?

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Yeah, social media is probably the easiest way. It's at rugged counseling. So, uh, or they can just search Trey Tucker therapist and and that'll that'll come up. My website's ruggedcounseling.com. So it should be pretty simple.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

And you take Zoom therapy, I assume?

SPEAKER_00 49:02

I I do, but it's it's the appointments are pretty packed these days, so it's it's gonna be a little tough, at least for a little while. I gotcha.

unknown 49:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Well, good to know. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's been such a joy talking to you, and um, it was great hearing some of the insights. I'm sure it'll be really helpful for the listeners.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Hey, I had a blast. Let's do this again.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

All right, thank you. Thank you for listening to the One To Dare podcast. It is an honor to share these encouraging stories with you. If you enjoyed the show, I would love for you to tell your friends, leave us a reviewer rating, and subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts because this helps others discover the show. You can find me on my website, SpeckaPop.com