Beauty At Work

Yearning for True Love with Francesca Hogi (Part 1 of 2)

• Brandon Vaidyanathan

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How do you find true love—within yourself and in your relationships? In this Valentine’s Day episode, we’re joined by Francesca Hogi, a love coach, TED speaker, and host of the Dear Franny Podcast. Francesca’s journey from corporate lawyer to internationally recognized dating and relationships expert is nothing short of inspiring. With her upcoming book, How to Find True Love, releasing in April 2025, Francesca shares how self-love, compassion, and humility are essential for attracting the love you deserve.

Francesca’s work has been featured on The Today Show, Marie Claire, and The New York Times, and she’s the founder of The True Love Society—a community for those seeking deeper romantic and self-love. In this episode, Francesca dives into the transformative power of self-love and how it shapes our ability to form healthy relationships.

In this first part of our conversation, we talk about:

  • Love is an Active Practice, Not Just a Feeling
  • The Dangers of the "Fairy Tale" Narrative
  • Self-Love as a Foundation for Healthy Relationships
  • Rejection and its Impact on Self-Worth
  • Attraction Shifts as You Grow in Love

Tune in for an episode that will empower you to nurture love in every aspect of your life.

To learn more about Franscesca visit these links:

This episode is sponsored by:

Tags:

#LoveCoach #FindingLove #TrueLove #SelfLove #DatingTips #RelationshipAdvice #HealthyRelationships #DearFrannyPodcast #SelfCompassion #Confidence #SpiritualConnection #ValentinesDay #Matchmaking #JourneyToLove


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(preview)

Francesca: And I have seen this time and time and time again how clients come to me and they are like, all of their hopes, all of their dreams are pegged to romantic love. And it's up on a pedestal. It's like if I can only just meet this person and have this relationship, then my life will be complete, then I'll be happy. But then seeing that, but wait a second, there's all these other opportunities that you have to experience love in your life that you're discounting, or you're putting them on the table. You don't think they matter. And sort of like with matchmaking, it's like those people, it's very difficult for you to actually attract a really loving relationship if you are not somebody who has a deeper understanding of love and if you're someone who just has this sort of magical fantasy perspective on romantic love, which is that, "Oh, as long as I have that, then everything else will be fine."

(intro)

Brandon: I'm Brandon Vaidyanathan, and this is Beauty at Work — the podcast that seeks to expand our understanding of beauty, what it is, how it works, and why it matters for the work we do. This season of the podcast is sponsored by John Templeton Foundation and Templeton Religion Trust.

Hello and welcome to Beauty at Work. This episode is airing on Valentine's Day 2025, so happy Valentine's Day everybody. What could be a more apt theme to discuss than our yearning for love? We're going to talk about romantic love in particular. Though, as my guest notes, it's only one small aspect that we perhaps tend to overemphasize at the expense of a broader view of love as our highest calling. My guest, Francesca Hogi, helps people find true love inside and out. A former corporate lawyer, turned matchmaker, turned love coach. Francesca is a TED speaker, host of the Dear Franny Podcast, and an internationally-recognized expert on dating and relationships. She's been featured in media outlets such as The Today Show, Marie Claire, The New York Times, Harper's Bazaar and the Huffington Post. She coaches individuals and groups and is the founder of The True Love Society, a community for people seeking deeper self and romantic love. Prior to her love career, Francesca competed on two seasons of the iconic reality show Survivor. Her first book, How to Find True Love, will be released in April 2025. Francesca is going to share with us her journey to becoming a love coach, the four key dimensions of love that she explores in her book—mindset, heart set, soul set and skill set—and also some practical advice for those in the dating game. Let's get started.

(interview)

Brandon: All right. Francesca, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us.

Francesca: Thank you for having me, Brandon. This is exciting.

Brandon: Gosh, it's such a pleasure. Yeah. And man, I loved your book. Congratulations. It was such a fun read.

Francesca: Thank you.

Brandon: Enlightening in many ways. You know, I've been married 18 years this year. So I've not thought about a lot of these things in a while. So it was really nice to sort of bring up some of these questions and to think about how does this matter for my own life.

Francesca: Thank you.

Brandon: And very apt. So this episode is going to release on Valentine's Day. And you know, what could be more apt than an episode about our yearning for love, right, what that means in all of its forms. Okay. To get started, this is a podcast about beauty. I sent you a little question to think about, which is, could you share a memory of an encounter with profound beauty that perhaps you had in your childhood or something that lingers with you till today? What does that idea evoke for you?

Francesca: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a hard question because it's like, oh, there's so many directions to go, right? But that's also why it's a great question. But I think what really came to me was, when I was a kid, I was probably — it was a summer between I think third and fourth grade, so I would have been eight. My family took a vacation. I grew up in New York. I grew up in New York City. And we took a vacation to LA. It was my first time ever going to California. I was a child of the '80s, like growing up watching all of these sitcoms, all these shows that were set in LA and just like the glamour of all of that. And I just remember. I mean, it was a magical time for many reasons. I mean, it was magical because my whole family was together. We didn't normally take vacations like that. We would take road trips. We would go, you know, but we didn't get on an airplane and fly across the country. And so it was like a big deal. I just fell so in love with California and the beauty of California. And it was a long trip. We were there for a month. I just remember it just felt like a dream. I was just like, "Is this real life?" Like the beach and the sun and the mountains and just everything to me was so incredibly magical. And so, yeah, I just think that was a beautiful time for so many reasons. And also, just as a family, I mean, I'm sure there were stressful moments. I'm sure there were times my brother and I didn't get along. I'm sure all of that happened, but I don't have any memory of that. I only have memories of the good times and the beach and going to Disneyland and Universal Studios and just feeling like, yeah, I was living in a dream.

Brandon: I'm sure your parents have very different memories of that experiences. But it's amazing what stays with us, right, and how these memories transform. Particularly, the resonance between your imagined world of what LA might look like and then really getting to encounter the reality of it and, wow, there really are beaches. It's really a lot of fun. And of course, I'm sure being together with your family and all of that, right?

Francesca: Yeah.

Brandon: Amazing.

Brandon: So you've had, I mean, such a fascinating journey. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about what it means to be a love coach, and how did you become one after becoming a lawyer? It's such a strange juxtaposition, and I'd love to hear a little bit of that story.

Francesca: Yeah, you know, I was a romantic child so I've always really cared a lot about love. I've been very taken with romantic love and the idea of it. And it was something that I always just, I wanted to grow up and fall in love. And so it was something that I always cared a lot about. I think I probably took for granted, like, oh, everybody cares that much about love, like romantic love. But I don't think so. I think I was a little over the top. But then once I did find myself as a young lawyer, I also had to accept the fact that I was very romantically challenged. It wasn't easy for me. I wanted to be in relationships. I wanted to have these great experiences. I didn't even know how to date. I was like, I don't even know how to get a date. And so I decided that I was going to teach myself how to date. And so I got on match.com. I created a profile, and I started going on dates. And so this is long before I ever knew such a thing as like a love coach or dating. I don't even know if I knew like a life coach existed at this point. But I just sort of intuitively just realized that I needed to teach myself some skills. And so I did, and it worked. I was like, oh, okay. Now I know how to get a date. But how do I get a second date? And how do I flirt? And how do I choose? And how do I, you know, all of these different — I just kept on coming up against a new kind of obstacle or challenge each step of the way. But I learned a lot.

Then I was still practicing law, and a friend of mine started a blog. She invited me to contribute to her blog. She's like, "Oh, maybe you can write about the law." And I was like, I am not writing about the law in my free time. She's like, "Oh, well, you can write about whatever you want." And I was like, I said the only thing I could think I would want to write about is dating. Because that was just what came to me. And she was like, "Write about dating." So I was like, okay. Great. So I started this dating advice column basically, and it was great. I just felt like, oh, there's a lot of people who are struggling with things that I used to struggle with. So I could totally relate to that challenge. I was like, oh, this is fun, you know. So fast forward. But I still had no idea, I had no inkling that this could be a career. It was just literally just a little, you know — I think I wrote one blog post a week. It was a very, very, very, very side project.

Various other things happened in my life. I knew that I didn't want to practice law forever. I went on the show Survivor. I don't know if you know that I was on Survivor. I went on Survivor, and that was a disaster. Then I went back for a second season, and it was a disaster again. And after my second season, I was like, okay, I've got to rewrite the narrative of my life. Like, this cannot be my legacy. And I was still stuck in this place of like, you know, being a lawyer is not the worst job in the world. You could do many worse things.

Brandon: Sure.

Francesca: And one thing that I did like about being a lawyer was, I really did like the client service aspect of it. I really liked like a client needs something. Then you figure it out, and you give them that solution. That was very satisfying to me. So I had this sense of like I do want to work with people, and I want to work with people and help them solve problems but problems that are very important to them. Because I was a corporate lawyer, so it was like, you know. Nothing against corporate lawyers. But it's just like, I mean, we're just making big corporations richer. That's not—

Brandon: Right, right, right, right.

Francesca: You know, is that what I am on this planet to do? I don't think so. Right? Nothing wrong with it for other people if that's what your calling is. But it wasn't my calling. I wound up going to a 4th of July barbecue after I came back for my second season of Survivor. I met this woman who told me about this black male matchmaker named Paul Brunson, who she followed on Twitter. And I was like, there's like a black male matchmaker? Like, what? Who's that? And I'm like, I want to follow him. So I took out my phone and I followed him. He had a story of, he had an MBA. He had been in investment banking, and he left investment banking to start this matchmaking agency. I was just listening to all the things he was talking about. And I was like, oh my God, this guy is so cool. This is like the best job ever. Then one day, he tweeted that he was going to be speaking at the Matchmaking Institute Conference in New York. And I was like, wait, there's a matchmaking institute, and they have conferences? Like, what? And so I just responded to his tweet and I was like, I want to come to this conference. And he said, you should come. And I took that as an invitation, and I went to the conference. I met all of these people who were just regular people, but it was their job to help people get into relationships. And I was like, well, I want to do that. The Matchmaking Institute had classes. And so I went to matchmaking school, and I got my matchmaking certification. Then I went on Facebook one day and I said, "Hey, everybody. I'm a matchmaker now."

Brandon: Wow. That is amazing.

Francesca: "Send me all your single friends." That's actually how I got my first client.

Brandon: Wow. That's extraordinary.

Francesca: Yeah, from that Facebook post.

Brandon: What did you learn from matchmaking school, maybe something that was an eye-opener or something that you didn't already know, something that surprised you?

Francesca: So matchmaking school was very much focused on basically kind of helping you to develop your own theories around compatibility, right? Because people have different theories around compatibility. And so it really made me think very deeply about that, you know. Because it's like, oh, because you have these ideas. But then once you have to actually articulate them and put them into practice, that's a whole other level. And also, just to think about things like, who do you want to work with? Who do you think that you actually could match? What are their personalities? What's the demographic? What are their characteristics? Where are you going to find the people to set them up with? Rght? Sourcing matches is a really — that's a huge, huge part of matchmaking, right? You can have all the ideas and all the theories you want. But if you don't have people to introduce your clients to, then it's not going to work out.

Actually, the reason that I sort of transitioned from matchmaking to coaching was because I matched made for about two years, and I started my own business. I also started working for Paul Brunson, who I mentioned. So my inspiration. I actually became his lead matchmaker for his agency. So I was very lucky to kind of be able to work with a bunch of clients right away. And it became very clear that the people that we could match were the people who were very open to looking at themselves. They had self-awareness. When we would set people up on dates, we would get feedback not just from our clients but also from their dates. And so presenting that feedback to people as constructively as possible, you know, taking the — if you have one client, you set up with five people. And all five people say like, they're really rude to the waiter, for instance. Just as an example, right?

Brandon: Right. Right. Yeah.

Francesca: You know, if one person says it, you're like, oh, okay. But these patterns would emerge, right? And so the people that we could match were the people who could take that feedback and take some responsibility for it and who are really willing to understand that, oh, just because I'm hiring a matchmaker, this doesn't mean that this is like now build a bear. I just get to say, you know.

Brandon: Right. Right. Right. That's right. Come on, genie.

Brandon: Exactly. I'm like, hi, we still live in the same world that you do. Right? But the people who are really willing to prioritize and actually get to the why, behind why, what they want certain things. Because a lot of people want things just because they have an idea of like, "Oh, I should just be with somebody who's x, y, and z." And then when you start to say, "Well, what does that have to do with your relationship with them," or, "Who have you dated like this in the past," they'd be like, "I've never dated anybody like it. But I don't care. That's just what I want." Those people were very difficult to work with. And so it just became really clear that it was the coaching piece that was really the secret sauce. I mean, anybody can get lucky with introductions. If you introduce enough people, some of it is going to stick, right? I was like, this is so random. It started to feel random. And I was like, I really don't want this to be a random process. I want to know that I can reliably, consistently help people get into the relationship that they're seeking. As far as I'm concerned, that can't be done without coaching.

Brandon: Right. Because it takes so much self-work, right? Your book is so clear on, I mean, it's in many ways it seems like it would turn on its head the kind of consumer mindset that people might have towards dating. Because you were shifting the focus back to the person and I think reorienting our sense of what it means to love. Then there's so much to do prior to even being ready to go on dates, it seems. Right?

Francesca: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Brandon: I want to jump right into the book because there's so much wisdom here, and it's such a delightful read. So you start by saying that love is not just something you feel. It's something you do, right? Which again is, for a lot of people, a serious shift in how they think about love as a feeling. You say you do love because you're a vessel or a conduit of love. Love feels far away when it only occupies corners or slices of life. So say a little bit more about that. Because I think you're inviting us to think about love as our highest calling and something to do with all aspects of our lives, and the romantic piece is only one small component of that, it seems.

Francesca: Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is something that — you know, it's now been 12 years that I've been doing this work, right? And I have seen this time and time and time again how clients come to me, and they are like all of their hopes, all of their dreams are pegged to romantic love. And it's up on a pedestal. It's like if I can only just meet this person and have this relationship, then my life will be complete, then I'll be happy. But then seeing that, but wait a second. There's all these other opportunities that you have to experience love in your life that you're discounting, or you're putting them on the table. You don't think they matter. And sort of like with matchmaking, it's like those people, it's very difficult for you to actually attract a really loving relationship if you are not somebody who has a deeper understanding of love and if you're someone who just has this sort of magical fantasy perspective on romantic love, which is that, "Oh, as long as I have that, then everything else will be fine."

And so it became really clear that the people who — because one of the things that I was fascinated about from the beginning when I started matchmaking, and even when I started coaching, was just like I could have two people who are essentially the same. They would be in the same lineup, so to speak. They've got very similar resumes. They check all the same boxes. And for one person, I could work with them for a really short amount of time. And they're like, "Okay. Get it. Got it. No problem," and they go out and they meet someone amazing instantly. Then the other person, it's like this struggle and it takes so long. It's not happening in the movement. This was one of the things that I really realized was the distinction, was who was actually taking responsibility for showing up in their lives in a loving way versus who was just not living in an openhearted way but just still expecting to "be rescued" by one person who comes in and gives them all the love that they're unwilling to give to themselves, or they don't know how to experience with other people.

And so just understanding, you know. And I always say, I'm like, if I knew how hard this was. I'm like, oh, I can give dating advice. I'm going to give him dating advice. I can do all this. But I really became very fixated on, how do I articulate to people what it is that really can reliably put them in a place where romantic love can just be an extension of how they're already living their lives versus just this magical thing that's supposed to come along and save them? So that's why centering love in your life holistically is, hat's the first chapter in the book for a reason. Because it's like, let's start here. Let's start with just living a life full of love. Then that makes romantic love a much easier — you combine that with your intention for romantic love, and then that makes it much easier to manifest in your life.

Brandon: It seems also that it would reduce the burden on a romantic partner to be the sole source of love that you find in your world, right?

Francesca: Yes.

Brandon: That's such a tall order to ask of anyone, I think. They give me all the love that I will need in the universe.

Francesca: Exactly. "Make me happy. Be my everything." I mean, you look. You've been married for 18 years. Congratulations, by the way.

Brandon: Well, thanks. Don't feel that long, but yeah.

Francesca: But you know. It's like having an amazing partner is such a blessing to your life. It's such a gift. But you still need other relationships, right? Those other relationships still matter, and your relationship with yourself still matters. And the more that you're able to understand that and to invest in all of those relationships, the better your relationship is going to be with your partner. It's not sustainable to just say, "Be my everything. I'm miserable, but it's your job to make me happy." It's like, but you can make yourself happy.

Brandon: It's such a big part of our common narrative. I think it's great that you divide your book into these four dimensions of love that you call mindset, heart set, soul set and skill set. Mindset is I think one of the biggest challenges we're facing, right? Because there are so many popular narratives of love and what romantic love ought to be. And you point out these various imposters, like infatuation and love bombing and control. I grew up not in the U.S but in India, in the Middle East. And so Bollywood movies painted for me a vision of love that was centered on infatuation and control. So if you're not completely infatuated and obsessed with somebody, stalking them, carving their name on your hand with a knife, or, you know, it was insane. But this was like, you know, my classmates and I, this is what we thought it meant to experience love for someone. It's you have to be completely obsessed and be jealous and possessive. If you're not, then this is obviously not love, right? So it takes a lot I suppose to dismantle that. You have this term for the fairy tale industrial complex and used Jerry McGuire as a good example of that. Could you talk about what's wrong with this sort of fairy tale vision of love?

Francesca: Yeah, so the problem with it is that, it's just not how love works. Right? But it's so pervasive. Whether it's Bollywood, whether it's Hollywood, whether it's love songs, we're getting so many unrealistic narratives around romantic love. And because we don't live in a culture where we have a strong counter narrative to that, it's just easy for people to default into that. Like, oh, it's supposed to be love at first sight. We're supposed to be obsessed with each other. We're supposed to know right away. And even when we have struggle, then there's still going to be this moment where the grand gesture now means that we're going to live "happily ever after." I mean, these stories always end at the wedding, right?

Brandon: Yeah, and that's the end end of love apparently, right?

Francesca: Apparently, you've done it. You've made it to the finish line. Everything's like, that's it. And it's like, well, no. Hold on a second. That's just the beginning, right? That's just the beginning of a whole new journey and a whole new relationship. And so it doesn't serve us to think that love is this magical fantasy that doesn't require our work. It doesn't require our intention. It doesn't require our effort, that it doesn't require us growing in our capacity to give love and receive love. Relationships are not set it and forget it. And if you do set them and forget them, they're not going to last for long, right? I like to talk about the fairy tale industrial complex and give some of those examples. I mean, I'm pretty hard on the movie Jerry Maguire in the book.

Brandon: I'm glad you are. That again, from my teenage days, was a big — I think I've said to at least one person, you complete me.

Francesca: Listen. So many people. I can't imagine how many wedding vows this has been in. But I think even as an example of a diamond engagement ring, which I also talked about in the fairy tale industrial complex chapter which is — I have nothing against diamonds. Like, get a diamond if you want a diamond. But also understand that this is a narrative that was created by a company to sell diamonds because people didn't buy diamonds.

Brandon: Right, yeah.

Francesca: But people have this idea. They're like, "Oh, no. This is this eternal symbol of love." And it's like, that was literally a woman who worked for a marketing agency in 1948. De Beers was like, "We have all these diamonds. People don't buy diamonds. How do we get people to buy diamonds?" I mean, brilliant.

Brandon: Would you feel so bad if you can't get one? That's the power of these narratives, right?

Francesca: That's the thing, you know. And so it's like, how many people didn't marry someone they loved because they couldn't "afford" the right diamond. Right? Or how many people did marry someone they didn't love because they got the right diamond?

Brandon: Incredible.

Francesca: And so it's like you have to just at least, if you're going to care about a diamond engagement ring, at least understand where that's coming from. Then ask yourself, well, hold on a second. It would be like if McDonald's had convinced everyone that loving your family meant feeding them McDonald's every night, and you never took a moment to examine that narrative.

Brandon: Yeah, it's incredible. Absolutely. All of these traps, I think they really shape our imaginations and our desires, right? Because we want to be seen as able to live out this cultural script, right, to be able to fall in love at first sight. And if you're not doing that, something is wrong with you. You've also tackled this issue of rejection, which, again, I think is a huge fear for a lot of people. So you were on Survivor twice, experienced rejection there. How did you overcome that? Because for a lot of people, the trauma of rejection is so painful. And once you've been rejected in a relationship, it's very hard to recover. So how do you overcome that? Because one of the things you say is, your feelings are always valid, but your feelings are not facts. So that experience of rejection you say is not really revealing a truth about us. I'd love to hear more of your own thoughts on this.

Francesca: Yes, I mean, I think that, yes, I've had my own experiences of rejection—romantic and otherwise. And it was hard, right? So it's not like I was just like, "Whatever. This doesn't matter." Just like everyone else, it mattered a lot to me. It mattered a lot to me for a really long time. But this is actually one of those — there are so many examples of things that I'm just so grateful to all of the clients that I've had throughout the years. Because I have learned so much from them. And seeing how other people get held back by this fear of rejection has been so illuminating to me. Because, first of all, it's a slippery slope. I mean, I know people who were genuinely upset, depressed, feel so badly about themselves because there's somebody that they liked on a dating app and that person didn't like them back. And they feel so rejected. And I'm like, literally, that person may not even be a person. That could be a bot. Just when you realize, like, there's so many reasons why someone might not swipe on you on a dating app. But just to see how people internalize so many things and called it rejection, I'm like, wait, why are you calling this rejection? This is bad, right?

And so I say in the book, and something I've said for a long time now, which is rejection isn't real, which is not to negate what happened. That's a minor example. But sometimes, you really want to be in a relationship with someone. You are in a relationship with them, and they say one day, "Yeah, I don't want to be with you anymore." It hurts. And by the way, I've been broken up with. I didn't like it. I've broken up with other people, and I didn't like inflicting that pain on someone else either. But you can feel your feelings of disappointment, and you can mourn the loss of that relationship without now saying, "Well, it's because I wasn't good enough." And so when I say rejection isn't real, it's because it's not that what happened didn't happen. It's the story that you're telling yourself. It's the meaning that you're ascribing to it. That is completely subjective. So just as easily as you could say, "Oh, my girlfriend broke up with me, and I feel so rejected. Nobody's ever going to love me," someone else could have that exact same experience and say, "Well, that sucks because I really thought we were going to be together for a long time. But I guess that just means that that's not the right person for me and that there's someone else for me." Right? And so if you can just change your whole emotional experience of something just by reframing it and just by changing that story, then it's just a story.

Brandon: I suppose that our ability or inability to make those changes tells us a lot about ourselves, right? If I really want to hold on to this idea that I'm not worthy, that seems to be an indicator that maybe that's where I have to do some work. Right?

Francesca: Yes.

Brandon: You have a great concept called the self-love formula, which is very different. Because a lot of people think of self-love as sort of egoism, and you have a very different way of framing that. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Francesca: Yes. Oh, gosh. Self-love, you know, I think the reason I came up with the self-love formula, again, clients. I'm like, oh, it's not just one thing. And also, seeing the absolute necessity of us having a foundationally loving relationship with ourselves in order for us to even know what it means to be loving towards another person and to receive love from another person. So the self-love formula, it has five elements. And so the first is self-compassion. I start with self-compassion for a reason. It's because we are so addicted to shaming ourselves, judging ourselves, beating ourselves up that it's like you can't even get to feeling love for yourself. If you can't ever give yourself a break and just have compassion that you did the best that you could, and even if you're ready to do better, shaming yourself isn't going to help you do any better. Right? We tell ourselves it does, but it's not. Because if you think about it, there's anything in life that we wanted to change. And shame worked to get us to make that change. Everybody would go to the gym every day. Everybody would be—

Brandon: Yeah, you draw on Brené Brown in your book. I think she has a nice distinction between guilt and shame, in the sense that when you do something wrong—which you might make mistakes, or hurt somebody, or say something you shouldn't have—you can feel guilty about it and say, "Oh, I shouldn't have done that." But then the shame is this sort of, there's something fundamentally wrong with me. Right? And that just seems very hard to get out of that kind of spiral.

Francesca: Yes, it's very hard to get out of. I call it a shame fog. It's so unhelpful because now you're just stuck there. You're just stuck in that place of self-loathing. So just choosing in that moment. Just like, okay, I'm really beating myself up. If beating myself up actually resulted in the change that I wanted, that would be one thing. And I tell people all the time, I'm like, self-compassion can be begrudging. You don't have to be like, "Oh, my God. I love myself so much. I'm going to give myself—" No, it could be begrudging. It could be like, "Okay. Well, I just want to move on." Right? "And so I'm just going to at least give myself that gift of just moving on and letting go of the story that I'm terrible." Right?

Then the second element is self-worth. That is just actually, first of all, like you said at the beginning, for me, love is not just about a feeling. And not just for me. I think just the definition of the word, it's not just a feeling. It's a verb, right? And so self-worth, just actually believing that you deserve good things, believing that you deserve to be loved, that you deserve to be treated with respect and with kindness and with compassion. Like, if we don't believe that we deserve these things, then life is going to be really hard. Relationships are going to be a nightmare, right? But because it's not always easy to feel worthy just as you are, just to feel that you inherently deserve good things — because we live in a world where we are told many times that you don't inherently deserve good things. You have to earn them. You have to work for them, right — so I always like to give the analogy of imagining a newborn baby. If you can imagine a newborn baby anywhere in the world, what does that baby have to do to be deserving of love, to be deserving of care, of kindness, of good health, of joy? I'm sure there are sociopaths who'd be like, "We're not going to love that kid until they grow up and see how they turn out." Right? But I like to think that most of us can agree they don't have to do anything. They just exist and, therefore, they deserve love. The same goes for us. But we don't always feel that way. And so with the self-love formula, it's not just about, okay, feel worthy. It's like, okay, how do I do that? It's like, well, no, actually, if I can accept that I am as worthy as everyone else, then how can I start to treat myself in that way? Because if you treat yourself with enough self-worth, then your feelings will catch up. Right? So it's all about starting with the action and not waiting for the feeling to just magically arise, right? Then I'll be quick with these.

Brandon: Sure. Yeah.

Francesca: Then the next one is self-validation. Self-validation is really just giving yourself some credit. Because this is another thing I've just seen through years of working with clients. It's like, how much people discount the work that they've done, the attempts that they've made, the ways in which they've been brave, the ways in which, you know? It's like we're so outcome-oriented that it's like, if I didn't get the absolute best perfect outcome, then I failed. It's like, wait, what? You tried, right? You were courageous. You pushed yourself. You tried something new. The only way that we gain confidence is by doing something new and then giving ourselves credit for having done it. And if you skip the part of giving yourself credit, then it's just an endless treadmill of trying to do and do and do and do and do to feel good enough that you never, ever are going to — like, you'll never see the end of that. So self-validation is just recognizing the importance of you, actually, just as you would a child, right? If a toddler is taking their first steps and they fall down, do you say, "Oh, you suck," or do you clap because they took a step, and you encourage them to get back up again? Right? And so that's what we really need to foster within ourselves.

Then the next is self-care, which is a huge industry. Lots of people will sell you lots of things under the umbrella of self-care. But it's really an individual thing to recognize, well, number one, how do I want to feel? How do I want to feel when I wake up in the morning? How do I want to feel when I go on a date? How do I want to feel inside my relationships? Then the second question is, what can I do to support myself in feeling that way? Right? That's not a one-size-fits-all thing. So the self-awareness, even just to ask yourself that question is a loving thing to do. And you will start to get answers. Then the last thing is self-gratitude, which is just actually recognizing that you are a one-of-kind miracle, that there is no one else on this planet who's exactly like you. No one ever has been. No one ever will be. And we all know that intuitively. But if you really think about it, that's amazing.

Brandon: Yeah, that's extraordinary.

Francesca: It's pretty amazing, right? And so there are things about you that make you uniquely you. And if you can practice being grateful for those things, then again, the feelings will catch up. But it's like that acknowledgement of the miraculous person that you are. For me, the whole point of the self-love formula and having this act of practice of self-love is that if you normalize that within yourself, then it's also going to become normal in your relationships. Because if you treat yourself as worthy and then somebody else comes along and they tell you that you're worthless, you're going to be like, "Uh, haha. You are wrong." You're not even going to be attracted to that person, right, much less are you going to be in a relationship with them. So it's so important for us to like normalize within ourselves what we want to experience with other people.

Brandon: Yeah, that's a tremendous amount of work too. I think that the converse of that is, people are so accustomed to seeing themselves as unworthy that they resonate with relationships where they're made to feel unworthy. And that's a really hard challenge to get out of. I want to ask you about heart set, which is the the next aspect of your framework. One of the things that struck me was, you said your attractions will change as your skill at love does. How have you seen that happen in your clients?

Francesca: Oh my gosh. So many times. It's the most amazing thing. And this is why we're actually able to break patterns, like toxic relationship patterns. It's because just as you just said. The example of like if you're used to relationships where people treat you poorly, then again that has to be normal inside of you. Right? But if you get more skilled at treating yourself with that sense of worthiness, then your skill at being loving towards yourself is increasing, so much so that when somebody comes along — I mean, of course, we can think of very dramatic examples. But let's even think of a very common but not as dramatic. Because obviously, there are very abusive relationship dynamics. But even just somebody who doesn't support your dreams. They're kind of like, they're like, "Oh, well, that seems pretty hard. How are you ever going to do that?" If you were really questioning yourself and if you're like, "Well, who am I to do that? Do I deserve to do that? Why do I have this dream," and then somebody says to you, well, how could you ever do that, you're kind of like, all right. Well, you know. All right. You can still be with that person because it's a match. But then as you get more skilled at actually treating yourself with that worthiness and that builds up that confidence and those feelings of self-worth within you, then you're not attracted to somebody anymore who pooh-poohs your dreams. It's no longer a match for you. I think that's something that I always really like to drive home to people. Because it's so easy to feel so trapped in relationship patterns and feel like, "Oh, every person I meet, this just keeps happening and it keeps happening." It's like, but no, wait a second. It keeps happening because you're not actually getting the right message. You're not understanding what your love assignment is here. And once you do, you are not going to be attracted to that same dynamic anymore. Those people, they will fade from your view. Then new people will emerge. It's miraculous. It happens. It happens every day. It's a beautiful thing.

(outro)

Brandon: All right, everybody, that's a great place to stop the first half of our conversation. Join us next time when Francesca shares with us her ideas on love as a heart set, soul set, and skill set. And you don't want to miss the practical exercise that she offers, which can be quite useful to do to uncover and assess our beliefs about love.

See you all in the next episode.