Unlocking Child Development Through Play: Sirena Simon's Insights on Parenting and Education

Our conversation with Sirena delves into the intricate world of childhood development through unstructured play and imagination. Discover how simple, repetitive activities (like throwing rocks) can build problem-solving skills and a deeper understanding of the world. Together, we unpack the generational shifts that have redefined play's role in education and therapy, and explore how embracing play can create enriching learning environments for children. We promise you'll gain new insights into how play-based therapy can revolutionize your approach to both education and parenting

(10:48) https://www.passiton.com/

(38:36) https://togetherweserved.com/

To learn more about Sirena Simon and The Play Clinic visit https://www.theplayclinic.net/ and also check out this blog post https://blog.gyminsight.com/9612-how-one-person-is-changing-childrens-therapy-the-play-clinic/

Chapters

• 0:00 The Importance of Play in Parenting
• 9:00 The Power of Play in Parenting

Transcript

Josh Porthouse: 0:00

The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience. Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.

Sirena Simon: 0:49

Children have no concept of what an adult is. They have no concept of what school is. They have none of these concepts. So why are we trying to put them in that box when they don't learn that way?

Josh Porthouse: 1:04

Today on Transacting Value. We've spent so much time over the last 20 years, with the advent of social media, online gaming, massively multiplayer online role-playing games, trying to figure out how to effectively digitize social sciences and humanities. At the same time, however, what plenty of therapists have known and have figured out thousands of years ago is, whether it comes to children or adults, gamifying identities to bring out the best of social interactions is a worthwhile venture. So in today's conversation, we've got Serena Simon from the Play Clinic and we're going to talk all about raising humanity and being okay with your choices as parents in the process. Guys, without further ado, I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and this is Transacting Value. Serena, what's up? How are you doing?

Sirena Simon: 1:58

Hi, I am very excited. I'm very happy to be here. I'm excited about talking about all of these topics right, especially being a parent and being okay with your choices. So I am the founder and CEO of the Play Clinic. We are actually going to be rebranding over the next couple of months into Simon Health. We work with both pediatrics and adults. What makes us different is we focus on the family unit and we focus on those social interactions. How can we get the best social interactions? And we do that through play-based therapy. A lot of times, parents will come to me and they'll say what are you doing? You're just playing with my child. And I say well, how about you hop in and play with us and I'll teach you how to play? And that's exactly what we do.

Josh Porthouse: 2:53

Absolutely, absolutely, and I mean that's the same. It's such a weird dichotomy to me, you know, like you think, I don't know, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, whatever. Every generation is very similar, in my opinion, where the younger generation says, hey, let's go play catch, or let's go throw rocks, or go fishing, or whatever, it is Right. And then people are like, ah well, you need to go to school. Okay, true, because you know, societally there's standards and benchmarks and whatever. Um, but if there's just as much benefit in playing well, whatever, throwing rocks with your kids at random trees or catching lizards, or whatever you do with your family and with your kids playing board games, anything in between how is that any different when you consider gamifying as a form of therapy To find identity, a sense of self communication, strengthen a family unit? It's such a common, simple concept. Is it really as underrated, though, do you think? I?

Sirena Simon: 3:52

think play is-.

Josh Porthouse: 3:53

You said that's what sets you guys apart.

Sirena Simon: 3:55

Correct, because play is extremely underrated, right, even? We have research proving that play and having fun as adults is even really beneficial for our brain and our brain growth, and we have found that brain cells will actually regenerate when we do play. Because in play, yes, yes, it is like really exciting research. So I definitely say look it up, because play is important for both kids and adults. With kids, they use play to learn.

Sirena Simon: 4:33

So a lot of people will say quit doing that, quit doing that, quit doing the same thing over and over again. So, for example, you'll have a child who will throw the same rock at the same tree and they will do it for five minutes at a time and you're like what is going on in that kid's brain? Like they just keep throwing that and it and a parent will come to me it's so boring, I don't like I can't do this and I say, well, that's how we learn, right? So with children, when they're playing, what will happen is they will repeat and they will repeat, and they will repeat until they get a different result. And when they get a different result, they're like, oh, a light bulb goes off. I can do that too. So it's very different than sitting at a desk and saying hey, how about you just sit at this desk and just write the letter A over and over and, over, and, over and over and over again and not understand why I'm doing it right? There's no value to that child.

Sirena Simon: 5:52

So I'll show you to that child if I don't know why.

Sirena Simon: 5:55

Repeating the letter A for example is going to get me anything, whereas in play they get a different result. So when you're talking about gaming, so it's very interesting that you bring gaming up, because we actually use gaming and treatment with some adults with language learning and oftentimes gaming has been used to help children with language learning and it is actually become problematic within the speech therapy community that we're overusing and relying on these devices. So, for example, shared reading activities. So what I mean by a shared reading activity is you sit down with your child and you read a book. Right Well, now they're all over YouTube. There's somebody else reading it to your child on YouTube.

Josh Porthouse: 6:37

Oh, I see.

Sirena Simon: 6:39

Or they're on an iPad, they're on an app, they're on an iPad, they're on an app and research has shown that the social interactions significantly decrease between the parents and the child when that book is digitized, versus holding onto the book, the physical book, and having that experience of turning a page, having that experience of pointing at a picture and people could say well, you know, on the iPad though, we're still interacting. I was just like but if you look at the child's face, is that child turning back at you and smiling? Is that child taking your hand to touch the book and turn the page or even turn the flap in the book?

Josh Porthouse: 7:30

yeah, but that's just sort of the advent of of the the times. It's sort of the zeitgeist right that we've lived through the last well, 20 years I guess 2004, 2098, 99, whatever where you know, the more commercialized and popularized tech became, obviously most people opted for convenience over some form of security, and I think we see that today. There's obviously compromises, a ring, doorbell or whatever, where there's a mix, a hybrid, but what we and I agree with you here what we seem to have sacrificed is security over strengthening our relationships and a command sort of presence over crafting and designing the autonomy and authority over our own family or, I guess, familial centered, interpersonal relationships, in the name of convenience. Well, my tablet can babysit, the shows are there, it's so much easier, I can actually get work done and multitask, and while all of those things are valid, I think it really helps to illustrate, at least in my opinion, personally and professionally, that life doesn't have to be complicated, but it is every bit as complex as it can be on any given day and it's so ridiculously layered that we still have to be able to prioritize. What are we going to focus on today? Because none of us, like you said, as parents especially, none of us can tackle it every level, to every depth, to every extent that it needs to be every single day. So I have a question for you.

Josh Porthouse: 9:00

For example, the playing, uh, uh you said throwing rocks at the tree five times and the parents, as your example went. I just can't sit here for a sixth rock. I can't do this. My brain is melting and that even happens. That even happens playing video games with our kids. Sometimes we're like I don't understand how you like this game, I can't watch the wiggles.

Josh Porthouse: 9:23

One more episode. There's too much of this, you know, or whatever it is that I think what's really cool about watching that happen is it's the development of this understanding that the impossible is possible, as as kids Like I, I'm like you said, pattern recognition, right, I'm throwing the rock, I'm throwing the rock, I'm throwing the rock five times over, I've thrown the rock and now I throw the rock and bark comes off. I thought this was a solid thing and now it's actually pieces of things, and now ants come out and it's a home and and and and those things make life lessons. But you can't do that in a screen because it's all programmed, it's all literally, by definition, predictable and it won't change until we change it.

Sirena Simon: 10:11

So you bring up such a good point that it's programmed. It's programmed right. You're programming the brain to expect something. So imagine doing that all your childhood and then becoming an adult and now you have to problem solve on your own and you never had that opportunity in childhood, right? Imagine? The mental health crisis that creates as a child gets older, because they didn't have that opportunity to work in an unprogrammed setting, so to speak.

Josh Porthouse: 10:48

All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Sirena Simon: 11:24

It's programs, right? You're programming the brain to expect something. So imagine doing that all your childhood and then becoming an adult, and now you have to problem solve on your own, and you never had that opportunity in childhood, right? Imagine? The mental health crisis that creates as a child gets older, because they didn't have that opportunity to work in an unprogrammed setting, so to speak.

Josh Porthouse: 11:56

Yeah, but okay, so how do we fashion that? I mean, there's got to be a way. Let's just Sorry, wait a second. I'm getting way sucked in real fast. Let me back up For anybody who's new to the show. First off, welcome you guys to the second. I'm getting way sucked in real fast. Let me back up For anybody who's new to the show. First off. Welcome you guys to the podcast. I appreciate you guys tuning in staying with us now into season six Super cool. Obviously, we got a lot of super cool people coming onto the show as well, serena, in this case, people that aren't familiar with you. As it's going to, we need to set the stage real quick. Who are you? Where are you from? Let's build some resonance. What sort of things have shaped your perspective on life that got you this direction?

Sirena Simon: 12:37

So a very complex question, but I will try to keep it as brief as possible. So all of us have these things that impact our life, right, I don't believe my experiences are bad or they're good. They've just impacted how I approach my business, my brand, and how I approach my relationships with everybody in my life, and that could be even like the cashier at Publix, for example. So I'm a speech language pathologist by trade, so essentially, I'm a swallowologist. That's what I'm really specialized in. It's pediatric feeding and swallowing.

Sirena Simon: 13:16

So, yes, I get thrown up on a lot. Yes, I'm messy all day. Sometimes I come home and my husband's like what did you do? Um, sometimes I come home and my husband's like what did you do? Covered in yogurt, you know. So that's normal, um, on a day-to-day basis.

Sirena Simon: 13:31

For me, the biggest things that shaped have shaped me, though, are really my childhood experiences. Um, I came from a very, very chaotic background. My mother had very severe mental illness. This is a very personal thing about me, so I do apologize if I get a little bit emotional, but I'm just a raw person, I'm just a real person. She had paranoid schizophrenia. So very, very chaotic environment. My brother was also very ill Recently. I lost him back in February due to chronic illness. He had a severe autoimmune disorder that put him in and out of the hospital. Thank you for all of his life.

Sirena Simon: 14:16

And so I ended up in healthcare. Obviously I had a way to pay for it right. So I went into the military. So I was in the Air Force. I was an air traffic controller and I used that to earn my master's degree in speech language pathology and then I found some mentors who helped me. I ended up in the hospital environment. I love medically based pediatrics. I still work with that a lot in the home. So my families who are oxygen dependent, my families with more severe muscle dystrophies, down syndrome, more severe autism spectrum disorder, and what I've found in all of my experience is this sense of lack of empathy and compassion in healthcare. All of my experience is this is this sense of um lack of empathy and compassion and healthcare.

Sirena Simon: 15:11

Lack of it. Lack of it, it has truly become a business.

Josh Porthouse: 15:18

Do you think that's to its detriment or out of just the eventuality and necessity of its own sort of procedures and costs, rising inflation, paying staff? I mean it's just nature of circumstance or?

Sirena Simon: 15:32

I think it's nature, of circumstance, but I also think it's choice as well, because I started my my business to really help people and I would have parents coming to me who said nobody would do feeding and swallowing with my child in the home because they were too complex. I could only go to a hospital. I was told my child was too severe, too behavioral. My child was too severe, too behavioral. They wouldn't even give me a chance. I've seen it with my brother, I've seen it with my mother, where here's a diagnosis and good luck. There's no resources, there's no follow-up, there's no. But thank you for coming in today, thank you for seeing me, but this is all we can do for you. So maybe it's not necessarily Something to be said for honesty, but that still doesn't actually provide any assistance.

Sirena Simon: 16:44

Correct, correct. So where's the follow-up? Where's the empathy in going okay, you just gave me this huge diagnosis. So say, for example, right now families are really terrified of their child being diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder because they really don't know what it means. Right, the local news, this child headbanging. But little do they know that that child headbanging probably has multiple diagnoses going on. It's not just autism spectrum disorder. Little do they know that it does not mean intellectual disability. I actually had a parent ask me two weeks ago and they said well, if my child has autism spectrum disorder? And they said, well, if my child has autism spectrum disorder, does that mean that they're mentally retarded? And that's exactly how they put it. So I'm just raw, I'm being out there and I said actually, absolutely not. It means the opposite. It means they might be a little bit quirky, but it doesn't mean that they're not going to talk. It doesn't mean they're not going to have a job. It doesn't mean a lack of intelligence we have research proving that.

Sirena Simon: 17:56

So we say here's this diagnosis, but we don't provide them a meaning to it, we don't provide them information to it. It's you're lucky. You're lucky to have somebody, including therapists, to sit down and say, hey, where are you at mentally, when are you at mentally in this process? I care about you and I want to make sure you understand what this diagnosis means.

Josh Porthouse: 18:26

Okay, there's a lot of parallels to what you just brought up. Okay, might be triggered or offended, I'm sorry. Feel free to send a message or let me know on the website and we can talk more about it in the future as well, but for here and now at least, serena, when you say well, let me start here. When you say retarded, I'm assuming that means the baseline then is that normal, reasonable person standard of intellect and learning and pace and capacity. But behind that baseline, right, like not quite there yet.

Sirena Simon: 19:11

Correct so that would be in this family's eyes when they said that to me, this was to them meaning my child would learn nothing. They will be two years old for the rest of their life.

Josh Porthouse: 19:26

Okay, well, and that's a worthwhile consideration to have, and maybe poorly phrased, maybe accurately, I'm not a doctor either, but still it's a worthwhile consideration, I think. But does that well, okay? So if that's the case, I think I see where this may be connecting. Probably then that child is going to learn very differently than the parents or any siblings or anything else, but probably to the same impact, through play. It's just a different modality of teaching, right.

Sirena Simon: 20:01

Correct, it's absolutely a different modality of teaching. Um, I, I will have parents who will tell me you know, I've been to this therapist, that speech therapist, that occupational therapist. What makes you different? Like, are you going to sit my kid down at a table? Cause they did, and I said no, it doesn't make sense to me to sit them at a table and force them to sit at a table when I see that they're moving around in their chair. Right, they're moving around, they're squiggling around, they're not even comfortable sitting in that chair. I see that they come into the door and they're jumping up and down. Right, why would I make them sit in a chair if they're moving all around and their mind isn't calm? The mind isn't calm, the body isn't calm. So we use play to help calm that body down. Right, and that might be sensory play. That might be swinging on a swing, that might be jumping on a trampoline. But even in those moments we can still do language therapy. Right, we can stop that swing, pause it, wait for that eye contact, let them swing again. We start building all of those skills slowly when we enter their world, building all of those skills slowly when we enter their world.

Sirena Simon: 21:33

If we force a child who doesn't understand our world right, doesn't understand what an adult means. They have no idea. They're like okay, you got to pay bills. What's that? The money tree? I don't know what that is. Children have no concept of what an adult is. They have no concept of what school is. They have none of these concepts. So why are we trying to put them in that box when they don't learn that way?

Josh Porthouse: 21:57

Yeah.

Sirena Simon: 21:58

Let's meet them where they learn.

Josh Porthouse: 22:00

Exactly that's what I was going to say, because we're talking cognition, right, we're talking cognitive processes of thinking, not the expectation that either a five, a 10, a 15 year old or a 35 year old at that comparable, you know, intellect level should know the exact same things, cause if that's the case, I have no idea what 80 year olds know. I haven't lived that long to learn the lessons. I'm not mature enough. You know what I mean. So if that's the case, I'm just as retarded by that definition and thought process. Then, because I have no idea the life lessons in the extent of maturity that comes with being 85, correct, um, as opposed to say, like we said, any kids or adult aged people with more childlike mentalities in terms of cognition and processing. And so when you have to work with all types of people cultures, ethnicities, like we said, cognitive development ages, whatever it is.

Josh Porthouse: 23:00

But when you work with all types of people, the only thing that really stands out to me is probably the most consistent continuous challenge that I have to assume you face daily is patience. How do you actually develop patience and tolerance to stay focused, because you get stressed too. I mean, you're a human like anybody else. You know what I mean, when your stress levels go up and your cortisol goes up and you just want to grab something and yell into a pillow. You can't especially not in a session, I'm sure. So what do you do? You go down the slide, you get on a swing and a trampoline. I do the same thing.

Sirena Simon: 23:38

I do the same thing, so you bring up a good, good point. In order for children to learn, or even adults to learn right, our mind and our body need to be calm. And this comes from a personal perspective, because I also have adhd and I also have pmdd, so those two are extremely so. Pmdd, that is called pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder. So if you can imagine, pms on steroids, that's what it is.

Sirena Simon: 24:12

But all right, I'm with you so anybody who has that diagnosis no yeah so essentially what that diagnosis, on top of the adhd, causes extreme mood swings, extreme mood swings, and it only lasts for like a week, right.

Sirena Simon: 24:32

And those mood swings for me are I can get very angry easily, I get very anxious. So I need a lot more self regulation and tolerance and I have built into my routine throughout the day those breaks that I need for my brain and my body. So, for example, there are some therapists out there. They can work with families back to back in a clinic setting, and I have some therapists at my company that do. But I don't like that. I prefer being calm at all times. So for me, home health is where it's at. Home health is fire to me.

Sirena Simon: 25:17

Like three weeks ago it was a high, high emotional. The child had a meltdown, threw themselves on the floor, had headbanging, self-harming. It was a really, really tough session. When I get into my car it's completely silent and I drive in silence to my next house. So for me, I build in that routine to build up that patience and tolerance. The other thing, too, is knowing yourself and having good self-understanding of what you can and cannot tolerate. My patience level is extremely high, of what you can and cannot tolerate. My patience level is extremely high. Others are not. If you don't have a high patience level and that's just who you are generally as a person. That's kind of like your personality. One is it personality or two? Are there things that you need to work on yourself? Because I found that people who are really quick to anger there's something else going on. There's trauma behind that.

Sirena Simon: 26:42

There's something else that hasn't been worked out yet. So I always say for really good therapists. Typically you know they don't come from the best of backgrounds, but a lot of them have really done that inner work in their souls and in their hearts, with help from mental health counselors, whoever they got that, help from pastors, whoever it may be, to go through that journey. So you can not take actions personally.

Sirena Simon: 27:21

So for example, when a child goes into a tantrum. What a lot of times I will see on a parent's face is one, and what a lot of times I will see on a parent's face is one. Oh, I didn't want this to happen. I didn't want it to happen. Please make it stop. And I will see tears in the eyes. I've seen parents their hands shaking. I have seen parents who will just say, oh, he's just doing it to do it or she's just doing it to do it. But what I've noticed is it's coming from a place of. I'm taking it personally.

Josh Porthouse: 28:03

Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

Josh Porthouse: 28:08

Alrighty folks, if you're looking for more perspective and more podcasts, you can check out Transacting Value on Reads Across America Radio. Listen in on iHeartRadio, odyssey and TuneIn.

Sirena Simon: 28:21

What I've noticed is it's coming from a place of I'm taking it personally, yeah.

Josh Porthouse: 28:30

I'm taking it personally.

Sirena Simon: 28:31

Parent. Yeah, I'm taking it personally that you're tantruming over the. You know I gave you a red apple instead of a green apple today, and the kid is losing it, right. So they kind of take it personally, because in the back of their head they're like well, I did everything that I could as a parent in that moment to make you happy and you're still going to tantrum, Right.

Josh Porthouse: 28:58

Okay, you're still Sure, I see the logic, yeah, yeah.

Sirena Simon: 29:02

So you're still going to do it.

Josh Porthouse: 29:03

So then, what do you do? But yeah, so then, how? I mean how? Yeah, so then, how else could you perceive it? I'm assuming you've already gone the entire day, and this is not necessarily always first thing in the morning or middle of the day, when you're fresher, it's the end of the day, when you're smoked and you're like I just need slippers, sweatpants, ice cream, whatever it is, and now the apple. You got to be kidding, it's a Tuesday, I don't have time for this. How do you work that?

Josh Porthouse: 29:29

It's such a multifaceted, complex situation, let alone whoever the individual is throwing the tantrum. Because I got to say this too I don't know specifically what that's like as a parent, as a child, as the individual here that you're describing, for example. I don't have much here that you're describing, for example. I don't have much resonance in that moment, but I have a fair amount of empathy for not having the vocabulary to be able to express what I'm frustrated about and the emotional burnout and the social battery that's not charged enough to communicate effectively and say I just need my space right now, I'll get my own apple. Thanks, mom, you know it's not. I get those moments. Is that what you're describing. Is that where you start? Is that how you explain it? How do you break this down?

Sirena Simon: 30:19

That's actually exactly how I break it down right. Okay, again, they are learning, they are, so you kind of have to, and it goes back to that patience and tolerance thing, right, and I always encourage parents especially. What is that thing that makes you okay, right? So what I mean is, for me, I purposely build in those moments of my day to make sure to calm my brain to make sure I touch base with myself and I say okay, you know, um, this makes me okay, this is my pattern.

Sirena Simon: 31:06

I know I'm gonna get in my car and I'm going to have a silent five minutes, or I'm going to eat my lunch in silence, or whatever it is to help calm my brain. So I always ask parents too what are your strategies for calming your brain, especially in those moments? What are your strategies?

Josh Porthouse: 31:27

Okay To self-soothe, to set boundaries to however you want to frame it. I'm assuming it's all the same, right yeah?

Sirena Simon: 31:33

to self-regulate. Yeah, To me it kind of goes all in the same, because in order to respond with patience and tolerance, you have to know how to self-regulate yourself. It is the number one thing. I work on with a lot of parents and I'm not a mental health counselor. So I always say let's get some, if you're open to it, let's introduce some mental health counseling to work on these things.

Sirena Simon: 32:03

Because I see it, I see how tired they are in the eyes and I see how defeated they look. And first of all, I want to let all the parents know out there you're doing a great job, You're doing an amazing job and I'm tearing up right now. I know you don't see it, but you're doing an amazing job and I appreciate everything you guys do every single day and I am, my team and myself. We consider ourselves privileged to work with your families and to work with your children. So I just wanted to throw that out there. But you know a lot of. To get back onto track, it's a lot of. What I do is self-regulation in those moments, even within myself, Because I have to be self-regulated so I can help the parent and I have to be self-regulated to help the kid in those moments, even within myself, because I have to be self-regulated so I can help the parent, and I have to be self-regulated to help the kid in those moments. So you have to learn what works for you, and sometimes that means recognizing my child's cry is actually a trigger well is that a problem.

Josh Porthouse: 33:10

Is it always a bad thing? Yeah, for what?

Sirena Simon: 33:13

well. So for some people that actually bring up trauma when they hear that's what I mean like, yeah, I can't.

Josh Porthouse: 33:21

I, you know you, you blame yourself, you feel guilty and shame and whatever. Like adoptions happen all the time because I can't deal with this kid crying anymore. You know like, but is it always a bad thing? You said, is a trigger? Can it be a good, a trigger for a catalyst for good or something? Is that ever possible?

Sirena Simon: 33:37

Yes, I think it is and I do see it in some cases.

Sirena Simon: 33:41

So, for example, we work with a lot of foster families and we work with a lot of single parents Single parents, either single parents by choice, single parents or divorce, whatever it may be. And so a lot of them these, they are super humans like I. It is like their body goes into this fight or flight response. That is just incredible, and I learned just as much from them too. So the trigger can go either way, and then sometimes the trigger goes in a good way, in a sense of I had a parent look at me, I want to say, a month ago when this happened, and they said ago when this happened, and they said I need to walk away. And I congratulated them for communicating that to me. And they said I need you to be the stronger person right now. I need to walk away. And I was like, well, actually you're being the stronger person because you are walking away from the situation. You're being the stronger person. And then, also, to go hand in hand with that, what led to that moment is I modeled that moment.

Josh Porthouse: 34:58

You modeled that moment.

Sirena Simon: 35:00

So I modeled. So. For example, it happened like two weeks before that parent walked out. I walked out and I looked at the parent and I said I need to take a break, I need to take a break, and I need to take a break because I feel I just feel anxious right now and I don't feel good and I need to walk away. And that's what I did.

Josh Porthouse: 35:25

OK.

Sirena Simon: 35:25

I walked away for 10 minutes and then I came back in the session and then they did it, you know, a couple of weeks later, go ahead.

Josh Porthouse: 35:33

I have a question about that real quick, yeah, yeah, just, I don't know sort of a devil's advocate point here or counterpoint I'm not sure the right word here but I think there's a certain amount of necessity to identify and develop tolerances for different things and then, obviously, the awareness of whatever they are.

Josh Porthouse: 35:55

I think that's important and I think to be able to say this is one of those moments I've I've hit my line, either explicitly out loud or in your head, and then take the whatever resulting action. But I also think it's important and maybe this is from my, you know, military background or or whatever martial arts, whatever, it is just my own perspective that you got to push it sometimes too, yes, and you learn discipline and resilience and structure to chaos, for whatever life breeds. Where's the balance for that? How do you determine the way to adjust? Okay, now I'm walking away, but now I'm going to sit here and deal with it as an individual, not necessarily as a therapist or as a parent, you know, just in the introspective realm here. How do you balance the two? Because there's a time and place for both.

Sirena Simon: 36:54

I absolutely agree with you and again, it's a very, very individual response and it goes back to knowing yourself. It really goes back to knowing yourself. Let me put it this way. I can put it from my perspective than trying to take it from somebody else's perspective.

Josh Porthouse: 37:14

Yeah, sure, sure.

Sirena Simon: 37:16

So for me and I've done it, I don't do it's very rare during a session where I say, hey, I need to take a break for five minutes, but typically I will tell you before I get to that point. I've already seen four or five different families and it has just been one of those days back to back where it's just been a rough day and you're going to have those, and I just got to a point where I was like, okay, I really need to take a step back, and usually, typically for me, it's when my thoughts go negative, as soon as my thoughts tell me I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it.

Sirena Simon: 38:01

Or my thought turns into I don't know what to do. And when my thought goes to I don't know what to do, I have to tell myself it's probably more likely my ADHD taking over and those negative thoughts from that taking over. So I need to go take a step out, take five minutes maybe, listen for me. Sometimes I'll I'll listen to like smooth jazz or something like that, just to recalibrate my brain, and then I'll come back.

Josh Porthouse: 38:30

Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Sirena Simon: 39:35

I have to tell myself it's probably more than likely my ADHD taking over and those negative thoughts from that taking over. So I need to go, take a step out, take five minutes maybe, listen For me. Sometimes I'll listen to like smooth jazz or something like that, just to recalibrate my brain, and then I'll come back.

Josh Porthouse: 39:55

I totally get it, like the threshold between I'm hungry and I'm hangry, but it's the same degree of awareness. Yeah, absolutely, I got you. I got you. Let me ask you this then, real quick, not to necessarily derail your train of thought but I think it's also important to understand that from just a human, an individual human perspective here not as a patient, not as a child, not as a parent, none of these other qualifiers that there's an art and a science to humanity, and in this case, raising ourselves, let alone each other, where the science is what we're describing right. But then the art is maybe the awareness or the expression of it, or ability to communicate it in some way or form or fashion. But what grounds it? In my opinion, your, your character is what you can fall back on, and maybe the value systems are what anchor it. So, in these times, when you start to develop your tolerance or or press your threshold for these types of things, that's what you can lean back on, like that's, that's the trust fall, it's your value system that's catching you, you know, or something to that effect. So let me ask you this real quick this is a segment of the show called developing character. D d d developing character.

Josh Porthouse: 41:10

Anybody, serena you included, who may be new to this idea two questions totally as vulnerable and upfront as you want to be. You can answer it however you like and to whatever depth. But my first question is it starts somewhere and you talked about your family growing up and a little bit around, how that informed your influence and passion around healthcare and working with people. But what about your value system? That was in your environment. You know what I mean. What types of values were you raised around growing up, or were you brought up around or exposed to that you think contributed to a lot of this as you were a child?

Sirena Simon: 41:49

It's a very good question, extremely good question, because in a lot of senses I raised myself my father is very open and honest with that Even though I was a military brat. He was gone, and when dad was gone, who was taking care of a little brother? Who was taking care of the house, right. So I started working in the fourth grade. I started that side hustle in the fourth grade. So I actually what I did is there was a stable, a horse stable.

Sirena Simon: 42:21

I was obsessed with riding horses, obsessed with it. I was like I want to be a world champion in fourth grade. Little did I know I'd be a speech pathologist, right. So I went over and I just put flyers up. I said I'm going to trade monkeying stalls for horse riding lessons. And that's what happened. And lo and behold, through those experiences I got mentorship. So I learned how to work, how to trade a skill for money, and then I started babysitting and all of these other things as well. But I would say one of the biggest things in my life didn't really start happening until my 20s when I was finally introduced to my aunt. So I have two aunts, um, one aunt um. I wasn't really introduced to, I was exposed to growing up, like when you're three, four.

Sirena Simon: 43:19

Nobody remembers, right um, yeah, and then due to the chaoticness in my home environment, we didn't really get to visit them. She wasn't an active part of my life. It wasn't actually until my mother passed that we actually that she kind of took on this mentorship, mother role and then same with my other aunts that I actually had more exposure to. So these two people are extremely important is they saw things in me that my husband saw in me but my parents didn't. So, for example, my dad.

Sirena Simon: 44:06

And so with generational trauma, right, generational trauma is something that I don't think people really realize gets passed down and it is a thing it gets passed down. So, whatever you get raised with, with whatever values you're exposed to, when you become a parent you say I want to do the best that I can, and sometimes you don't even realize that generational trauma affected your personal choices. So for me, I was a feral child. I'm still a feral person, feral adults, right, but as a female child and this might be triggering to some. So I'm just going to put it out there and it might be also very controversial as well. Controversial as well. I was kind of expected to go to college, to get married, I was expected to have kids, but I don't think my parents really knew how to deal with me. They were like this kid is she's making A's and B's in school on her own.

Sirena Simon: 45:11

I don't know how she was doing it. She doesn't match the stereotype.

Sirena Simon: 45:15

I was put in a box but, I wasn't put in a box on purpose. There was no ill intention in that whatsoever. It was just my parents didn't know what to do. They didn't know what to do. It just kind of came together. Um so, but both like I had this recent conversation with my aunt um, there was a point where I had to make the choice of being child free or not and again this might be triggering for some people Um, it was right after my wedding. We I kind of went into this spiral and it was because of an event that happened and I learned a couple of things. So what the event was was I had a family member it wasn't even 24 hours within the ending of our wedding.

Josh Porthouse: 46:06

They did a gender reveal.

Sirena Simon: 46:07

Okay, yeah. So why it was so triggering for me was because I was like we just spent all of this money and you couldn't have waited 24 hours. You couldn't have waited 24 hours Like it couldn't have just been about my husband and I for 24 hours and then, um then it it. It kind of solidified those values that a woman like me isn't important. A woman like me who has a master's degree.

Josh Porthouse: 46:42

Do you get what I'm saying Like?

Sirena Simon: 46:43

who has a master's degree. And so I went into this spot and before we got married we were pretty like no, we don't want children, like we already knew that we didn't want children as a couple. And then here I am with all of our closest family members and they knew, they knew we selected to be child free and that that was who we were. And I questioned all of my identity in that one moment. And then after that, like when I confronted the family member and I said, hey, you know, I wish things were handled kind of differently. Essentially, I was told via text message you don't matter. Well, not, you don't matter. The exact words were it shouldn't matter because you weren't going to have kids anyway. It shouldn't matter how you feel.

Josh Porthouse: 47:37

I'll consider it, yeah, okay.

Sirena Simon: 47:40

Correct, so I battled with my identity a very long time out of that and it actually almost resulted in my husband's and I's divorce. Because I was in such a bad, negative headspace and I was like we need to have kids, we need to have kids, we need to have kids. And my aunt was the one who pulled me aside and when I finally came out of it and I was like I don't think I want kids, aunt Sherry, and she goes yeah, you would have been a terrible mom.

Sirena Simon: 48:14

Kids, aunt sherry and she goes yeah, you would have been a terrible mom, not like that but she, she wouldn't joke like that, but she but she said you would have been miserable.

Sirena Simon: 48:22

I knew that. I knew that from when you were three years old, that that was not going to be a part of your life. That was not your mission. That was not how you were going to be a part of your life. That was not your mission. That was not how you were going to impact the world. Was being a mom, and for some people, that is how they impact the world and I am grateful for them every single day because it is something, it's a choice that has never been in my heart and my soul to do. So I definitely 100% support it. But for me, it was impacting the community through businesses and not corporates, through small businesses, to empower young women, to empower families. That their choices were okay, that their choices were okay.

Sirena Simon: 49:16

So my aunts really, really shaped that. And then my other aunt is the one who said you know, serena, you belong in a boardroom. You never belonged on in a little wedding dress. You never belonged. And you know, just in this in suburbia, so to speak, she's like you never belonged there. I knew that from the moment I met you, the first time I met you and she was the one when I started talking about my business and saying you know, I'm scared, I'm really scared, I'm really, really scared of doing this. And again it went back to that identity thing.

Josh Porthouse: 49:54

I'm really really scared of doing this, and again it went back to that identity thing.

Sirena Simon: 49:57

Because, well, I've taken it on Unintentionally, correct, unintentionally. I'm thinking in the back of my head. I'm female, I can't be successful in business Right and she was just like no. You are always meant for the boardroom.

Josh Porthouse: 50:12

Go, put on those heels and fear of success is such a wild thing to hear and think of, because it's always like, well, if I fail, I don't know how to recover, which is, I think, legitimate as well. But if I succeed, I don't know how to recover, is, just as, I think, common in a lot of cases too.

Sirena Simon: 50:30

Correct and I absolutely agree with you.

Josh Porthouse: 50:35

Yeah.

Sirena Simon: 50:36

That fear of being successful. What does that mean to your identity? Because sometimes, for a person like me, it actually solidified my identity. Right Now, I'm the happiest person that I've ever been, because I came out and said this is who I am. I love helping people. I love helping people, but I also love business as well. You know, like I, I truly enjoy it. Um yeah there's so many things we can talk about in so many other areas we could even get deeper into it.

Josh Porthouse: 51:15

Well, that's what makes it so cool. Like we were saying earlier, there's so much complexity and so many different layers, but all things considered, it's fairly simple Know yourself, seek self-improvement, know thyself. It's all the same sort of I don't know relative degrees of stoicism that seem to still stick hundreds of thousands of years later. There's got to be some truth to it. We can't have gone that far where you know, like it's still a science and so, yeah, I think the thought process is the same. But now back to your original point. How crazy must it be mentally, cognitively, to be in a position where you can't inform people of that? And if it's a basic human desire and if it's a basic human need which I'm pretty sure it is, to be able to communicate, to find your pack and safety and security and be part of the group, to not be able to communicate that for whatever cognitive reason? Or, let's say, you're not to some degree behind the curve or whatever, like I said, cognitively, but as the parent, well, isn't it ironic that, by this standard and societal metric, you are, you're in the average, you're right in the middle, you, whatever, are normal, but yet you also can't communicate? Strange, frustrating, isn't it? Yeah, weird and figure out how to make that loop close. And you're coming up to somebody again, maybe 35 years old, acting like a five-year-old because of cognition. But now, mom, you're a 35-year-old acting like a five-year-old because of cognition. But now, mom, you're a 35-year-old acting like a five-year-old out of immaturity, because you lost self-control or don't understand how to self-soothe, or you know where. It's the same sort of general I don't know if it issues the right word, but issue. In the moment it's the same sort of point of comparison at least, and I think.

Josh Porthouse: 53:13

I think in my most of my career in the military has been in the infantry and one of the things that we do we call it either map tracking or land navigation or whatever, but it's reading a map, it's figuring out where to go without a GPS, you know, with sticks and stars instead of double A's, but it's in that reference to communicate that with somebody else over a radio or in person. Here's where we are and where we need to go. It has to start with an initial common reference point and once you've both identified oh, I see that tree, I see that hill, I know it's here on the map. Okay, now how do we get to where you are, that you can actually start communicating and making progress to any extent. Super cool, super cool.

Josh Porthouse: 53:58

I didn't intend for this conversation to go that way at all, but I'm glad it did, and I really appreciate your insight. Uh, for the sake of time, though and, by the way, I'm more than willing to have you back on the show, but for right now, I really only have two more questions for you because of time. One of them all of these experiences, from you as a kid to learning and growing through you and yourself, obviously, getting married, and all the things that come with learning about somebody else, and then your practice and business. What has it actually done for your self-worth? How do you view you now?

Sirena Simon: 54:39

I love who I am now. It's taken a long time to love myself. It's taken a very, very long time to learn how to love myself. But I encourage everybody and it takes work. That's the thing is. It takes work. You don't come. I think it's very rare for anybody to come out and say I love myself. But you know what? And this is something that is profound. And we can talk on another episode about children, and this is I love learning from children. They are the most humbling human beings to learn from, because children live in the present. They have no idea about the future. They have no idea about the past. And you know what they love, who they are. You know who takes that away. You know who takes that away we do as adults.

Josh Porthouse: 55:42

We take that love away. I always thought it'd be interesting to meet time travelers, but from what you're saying right there, maybe we did when we were kids and now I'm not so convinced that that would have been a cool experience to have or a fun person to meet, because what are they going to bring back? All the life lessons and issues and emotional baggage? No thanks, I'm pretty happy throwing rocks at this tree.

Sirena Simon: 56:07

Correct, I'm pretty happy popping bubbles right now. I'm pretty happy popping bubbles right now. I'm pretty happy chasing after that frog, you know. And I think as a society, this is where we're going. Wrong with our kids is we are taking that love, that love of life, away from them, of that love of life away from them and we can learn so much from them. Because we'll take them and we'll say we want you to be stuck in this box, versus saying, hey, what do you think about that? And believe me, they'll come up with a solution. I mean, we already see it. Like if you watch Kids Baking Championship I watch it all the time these kids are amazing in the kitchen. They're amazing, right. But the difference is at that age, how many kids truly loves themselves. Those kids love themselves. They're more self-regulated than most adults are, right?

Josh Porthouse: 57:21

Well, also to that point, though, in understanding that there's a certain benefit to discovery and awareness and introspection by the same parallel. Let's say, well, any child cooking show for that matter that sometimes there is a recipe and you need to follow it, because what you're actually, the expectation placed on you, is that you make this kind of cake. So sometimes you have to play the rules and there's a time and a place to discover new recipes. But in the test kitchen, why couldn't you put actual carrot into some sort of pudding or I don't know whatever. I'm not a baker, but like there's times and places for all of that, and there's got to be a mutual respect for the boundaries that do exist within certain aspects of life.

Josh Porthouse: 58:06

Let's say, but Serena, my second life. Let's say, but Serena, my second, or really my last question. I guess anybody that wants to reach out to you, to get in touch with you, to follow up and find out what is the Plague Clinic? Well, sorry, what is Simon Health and what's it going to become? Or any blogs or journals or products that end up online as a result, and all of these other things, where do we go? How do we find out about it?

Sirena Simon: 58:34

Yes, so you can. Actually, I rarely, rarely do this. However, I'm going to put my personal number out there, but please, please, guys, do not blow up my phone, for unreasonable things.

Josh Porthouse: 58:50

How about this? How about this for right now? Um, how about just a website, and then we can forward a link and people can email you. How's that?

Sirena Simon: 59:01

yeah, I think that's a better, better solution. I just get so excited, I'll talk to anybody and I'm like yes, please call me.

Sirena Simon: 59:07

Please call me, I'll help you guys out and it actually happened.

Sirena Simon: 59:11

I got a call at 2 am randomly from California and I was like what? They're like, yeah, I heard about you through so-and-so. I was just like, well, I'm in Florida, so they're like that's not going to work. I was like, yeah, that's not going to work, so definitely it's pretty cool though. Yeah, it is really cool, um, so definitely.

Josh Porthouse: 59:37

Um, theplayclinicnet sweet, all right, so we'll start there and then, as people leave messages or reach out to you through your website, should you decide at that point to give them a contact number, uh, maybe we'll start there. See where it goes. And for anybody else, obviously, who's new to my show, depending on the player you're streaming this conversation on, you can click see more, you can click show more and then, in the drop down notes the show notes, the description for this conversation you'll also see a link to Serena's website, so it'll be able to take you right there as well. Even as you're listening to this conversation, you can check her out and see what's going on. Super cool, I love this opportunity.

Josh Porthouse: 1:00:17

I love this conversation. I think there's a very highly underrated benefit to talking about things like family or fatherhood or parenting or gaming or, from what I'm assuming, millennial parenting and perspectives on it and everything that that can actually do to benefit a society instead of just I don't know destabilize it. Awesome, I love it. I appreciate your time, your insight, your experience and, frankly, your tolerance for putting up with it, because without it, this conversation wouldn't have been as cool as it was had it not been for all the lessons and things you've learned, so I really yeah, I really do appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show.

Sirena Simon: 1:01:01

Thank you so, so much, and I hope to hear from you guys soon.

Josh Porthouse: 1:01:06

Absolutely, and for everybody else who's listened to the conversation or watched it, in this case. I thank you for staying with us for the conversation. Any feedback you guys have any insight, comments? You have? Feel free to go to our website at transactingvaluepodcastcom. Click, leave a voicemail on the homepage. You get two minutes. It's up to you. Say what you like, let us know what you think and obviously, if you have specific questions for Serena, put them in there. We'll forward it on to her as well, and obviously the playclinicnet can also take all your feedback. But, guys, thank you again for your time Until we talk again next time.

Josh Porthouse: 1:01:42

That was Transacting Value. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together. To check out our other conversations or even to contribute through feedback follows time, money or talent and to let us know what you think of the show. Please leave a review on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom. We also stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms like Spotify, iheart and TuneIn. You can now hear Transacting Value on Reads Across America Radio Eastern Standard Time Wednesdays at 5 pm, sundays at noon and Thursdays at 1 am, head to readsacrossamericaorg. Slash transactingvalue to sponsor a reef and remember, honor and teach the value of freedom for future generations. On behalf of our team and our global ambassadors, as you all strive to establish clarity and purpose, ensure social tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty or individual sovereignty of character for yourselves and your posterity, we will continue instigating self-worth and we'll meet you there. Until next time. That was Transacting Value.