Social Heat: Why Some Talks Thrive While Others Dive with Dr. Amanda Kenderes

Have you ever wondered why some conversations flow effortlessly while others feel stilted and awkward? In this episode of Transacting Value, we dive into a captivating discussion with Dr. Amanda Kenderes about her transformative talk type model. Through her research, she established a framework that reveals how our preferences in communication impact our social dynamics—especially for those who experience social anxiety. Join us for this enlightening journey and discover how your voice aids in crafting your identity while connecting authentically with others.

(20:29) https://porthouse.kw.com/

(31:18) https://www.passiton.com/

Learn more about Amanda and Talk Types by visiting https://talktypes.com/.

To purchase Amanda’s book “Talk Types: How What We Say Reveals Who We Are” you can visit her website https://amandakenderes.com/ or Amazon.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Transacting Value
• 10:00 Exploring Values and Communication
• 40:00 The Three Reasons We Talk
• 1:10:00 Understanding Social Anxiety Through Talk Types
• 1:50:00 Application of Talk Types in Professional Life
• 2:30:00 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Transcript

Josh Porthouse: 0:00

The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience. Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.

Amanda Kenderes: 0:49

For social anxiety. When we have a combination of a boosted confidence plus an extended vocabulary to help us understand and navigate talk and social interactions, we approach the situation from a very different place.

Josh Porthouse: 1:08

Today on Transacting Value. What if you could find identity and manage anxiety, all by framing how you speak? Professor of social sciences and author of how what we Say Reveals who we Are. And author of how what we Say Reveals who we Are. Dr Amanda Kanderis says it's not only possible, it's teachable. And because our values are woven into our talk types, we're going to talk all about it. I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and from SDYT Media. This is Transacting Value, amanda how you doing.

Amanda Kenderes: 1:44

Hey, josh, so good to be here. Thank you for having me.

Josh Porthouse: 1:48

Absolutely, absolutely. I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule. I see you're not necessarily at office hours right now, so you got some time off today, or what's going on?

Amanda Kenderes: 2:00

Yeah, wednesdays are good for me right now, but you know that changes every semester.

Josh Porthouse: 2:05

Yeah, I bet, I bet, we got the holidays coming up now, at least as of this recording.

Amanda Kenderes: 2:12

So looking forward to a break. Oh, don't we all. It's so nice to just be able to unwind, and I love Christmas time. I really do. It just takes me back to my childhood and I love it. I love every moment of it.

Josh Porthouse: 2:27

Now you, from what I understand, traveled a lot. Speaking of your childhood, I think it was for your dad's work, if I remember what we spoke about. So let's just start there, because you've got a lot of interwoven complexity throughout your story and I think it's going to speak pretty heavily towards some of these topics about values and talk types and how people communicate effectively. So let's just start there for a couple minutes. Who are you, where are you from and what sort of things are fueling your perspective on social sciences and why it's important?

Amanda Kenderes: 3:01

Yeah, so, yeah, some big questions. Um, who am I? Uh, yeah, well, depends. There's so many ways to answer that. Right, this is a continually evolving answer.

Amanda Kenderes: 3:12

But I grew up internationally. Uh, you're right, it was my dad's job. He, he worked for the us embassy, and so I grew up in north and South America, asia, africa, europe. Every three years, my family moved to a new continent, so really the only constant was change in a really big way. And so I realized that if I was going to have an enjoyable time in any one place, I was going to need to learn to connect quickly. And I asked myself you know well how do we connect through talk.

Amanda Kenderes: 3:58

So what happened, just by virtue of my situation, is I became a student of communication, because if I could talk better, I could connect better. So I started to try out different kinds of talk with people. See what works, try, you know, try what I liked, try to learn what others liked. And the more I experimented, the more questions I developed, and over the years I ended up initially I had more questions than answers, as it goes, but then I ended up developing the talk type model as an answer to all the questions, the collection of the questions that I had asked for 15 years, and some of these questions were you know, why is it that we can walk into a crowded room, start a conversation with somebody and just connect really easily, lose a sense of time An hour can go by and we're so engaged and interested.

Amanda Kenderes: 5:14

And then, with somebody else, it takes work to think of things to say and to keep the conversation going. Why is that? Well, maybe the person that we talked to for the hour. They're just really easy to talk to, okay, but then why doesn't this other person also find them easy to talk to? Because they don't. Why is this person laughing at my joke, but not that one?

Amanda Kenderes: 5:41

Why do we have different preferences in books or movies? Why do we have different tastes in music? So, basically, any area where that communication touch, I questioned it. I mean, that's virtually every area, from direct speech and conversation to reading, writing, even Braille and sign language, music, podcasts, movies and body language, tone of voice, all those you know called para-language. So yeah, after all of this observation and experimentation, I realized that really, people only talk for three reasons, three fundamental reasons. That is it. And the reason that we have different, that we connect with people differentially is because we may or we may not share a preference. We may not rank those three reasons the same. When we do rank them by preference, we get six talk types. There are six ways to rank three variables.

Josh Porthouse: 6:59

Six ways to rank everybody.

Amanda Kenderes: 7:02

Yeah To every variable.

Josh Porthouse: 7:04

Three variables what do you mean? Let's start there. What are you talking about?

Amanda Kenderes: 7:08

So are the three ways of the three reasons for talking. We talked for three reasons. Fundamentally, all people across the globe, and I refer to these three ways in different, or these three reasons in different ways. So in shorthand, I call them A, b and C. We can also call them informing, relating and meaning-making. And technically, a is objective understanding, b is subjective experiencing and C is subjective understanding. Those are the technical terms.

Amanda Kenderes: 7:44

But these three reasons for talking, when we rank them by preference, we end up with six talk types, which is our home base. They're like archetypes that just showcase what we like. So, yeah, three communication styles, or six communication styles, as it were. So some people prefer factual talk, some people prefer relating, where they ask you know, how was your weekend, what did you do? Did you have fun? And other people prefer the deep, you know meaning of life, questions or personal growth, that kind of stuff, and we don't like them all the same, incidentally. And when we look at them, yeah, it's a predictor of connection. It's also a predictor of potential conflict. There's a lot there, but that's just the start.

Josh Porthouse: 8:43

Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

Josh Porthouse: 8:48

Join us for Transacting Value, where we discuss practical applications of personal values, every Monday at 9am on our website transactingvaluepodcastcom, Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays at noon on wreathsacrossamericaorg slash radio at noon on wreathsacrossamericaorg slash radio.

Amanda Kenderes: 9:10

When we look at them, yeah, it's a predictor of connection. It's also a predictor of potential conflict. There's a lot there, but that's just the start. Yeah.

Josh Porthouse: 9:17

Yeah, okay, but this is you at I don't know 15 years old, let's say, trying to figure out how to put those concepts into these words, and then, over the last I don't know 15 years old, let's say, trying to figure out how to put those concepts into these words, and then, over the last I'm assuming 15 to 25 years, you figure it out and you put it in a book. Well, what does it? Do you know what I mean? Knowledge without application, I think, tends to be a waste of your time, right, and so you identify these things, but did it help you have conversations, or help you make friends or start relationships, or was it more content that just happened to be accurate?

Amanda Kenderes: 9:59

Well, I mean, I guess the honest answer is I think it's both A lot of times we're searching for answers to questions and we honestly don't know what all the applications are going to be. It's sort of like the laser. The laser now has God only knows how many applications you know in medicine, in science, in education, I mean in. You know in medicine and science in education, I mean in auto mechanics. I mean you could just fill in the blank aerospace, engineering, whatever. But when the laser first came out, nobody knew what to do with it. In fact it was nicknamed the solution looking for a problem.

Josh Porthouse: 10:44

Interesting.

Amanda Kenderes: 10:45

Yeah, so sometimes when new models, theories, innovations, inventions come out, people don't immediately know what to do with them. I think that that's fair and those applications can reveal themselves over time. Now, that said, I have had some time, but it's been my own personal interaction with the talk type model and the experiences that I have with it and the applications I've been able to use it for may be different from what many other people. You know their experience, and so time will tell. But for me, the first thing that it did for me was to help me to feel a sense of belonging. This was a major shift for me, longing. This was a major shift for me because I really loved deep talks. So I would just, you know, I figured why, why bother with the small talk? Let's just skip the small talk and go straight to the deep talk. So on the playground in elementary school, I would be asking the kids, my peers, about their home lives and how happy oh, I was not. Yeah, I figured, once you go down the slide, once you know what it's like. So I preferred to sit in the shade under the wooden playground set and just have conversations with people. I was that kid that just liked to observe. I wasn't a loner. I had friends, but the friends that I tended to make, because most of the kids around me didn't really love these kinds of talks. I just ended up learning what they like to do and going along with it, and it was fine, it was acceptable, but I knew that it wasn't fully me. It was fine, it was, it was acceptable, but I knew that it wasn't fully me.

Amanda Kenderes: 13:09

After I tried this out with the kids on the playground um, you know, jump into the deep talks I thought, well, maybe this isn't for kids, maybe this is more of a grownup thing. So I tried it out with some of the grownups in my life. So, um, teachers, parents, uh, well, my parents, I, um, my dad was was my deep talk buddy, but outside of home, parents, coaches, bus drivers, this sort of thing and I would jump right in with them and I would ask questions like what's happiness? And if they were married, I would ask how did you know you'd found the one as a kid? Oh yeah, oh yeah. How did you know you'd found the one? Was it a kid? No, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh. That was I mean from elementary school on.

Amanda Kenderes: 13:54

So it didn't go over super well with the adults and I actually got really down because I thought, well, gee, if this isn't, you know, deep talks, it's not for kids, most kids. I mean it's for me, I'm a kid, but okay, it's not for most kids. And most of the adults that I talked to weren't into it either. Now, granted, this is from my own limited kind of perspective. Maybe those adults would have been more inclined to have those conversations with another adult. Maybe you know part of what was you know in inhibiting that was that I was eight years old and they didn't know how to. So so that could have been happening. But in my in it, from my vantage point, with my logic, I thought there, I thought there's no space for me, I don't belong here, and I ended up just kind of performing my way through the rest of elementary school, middle school, high school and finally, at 19, I had an argument with my dad that ended up leading to the epiphany of the talk types.

Josh Porthouse: 15:10

An argument did.

Amanda Kenderes: 15:13

Sometimes it's those negative things that end up being your best kind of positive. Yeah Turned into a positive moment.

Josh Porthouse: 15:22

Well, so here's something for you that I haven't told you yet. You and I first spoke I don't remember exactly call it a month ago, and since then I went through your book and for anybody listening to this or watching this conversation, I have no reason to tell you it was good, except for the fact it was. I've never met you outside of these conversations. I don't know you personally. You know what I mean. So this is about as objective an unbiased opinion I can give you. It's probably the most accurate thing I've ever read and then inadvertently, unwittingly, put into practice that actually applies accurately. Put into practice that actually applies accurately.

Josh Porthouse: 16:08

Everybody I've talked to over the last month has so far fit very well into your categories and what it's done for me. You mentioned belonging. I didn't really care to belong into any of these conversations or relationships, which was part of the problem I started to zone out. But the more I started to pick up on the pattern of, okay, wait a minute, this is a little bit more subjective but not quite as deep. Or this small talk maybe that I thought was, I don't know impertinent, happened to be a little bit more objective than what I was prepared to talk about. It gave me a minute to reorient how I was perceiving the conversation and develop some patience and some insight and humility, I guess, and get over my own ego. So from that point first, before we go any further, I think you're onto something. I think it was pretty accurate.

Amanda Kenderes: 17:04

Thank you.

Josh Porthouse: 17:05

You're welcome, but that brings me to my next question. That's just my experience, right? So, understanding what we talked about a little bit earlier, understanding that how people talk or, more specifically, how what we say can reveal who we are, not who, or how other people speak and talk, or who they are, what does it do for us as the individual, better understanding how we prefer to speak? How does that help us develop an identity or control over ourselves?

Amanda Kenderes: 17:37

Yeah, so there's so much here to unpack. But first of all, we could start out with the idea that, um, communication is how we interface with the world. So if we have a better understanding of communication, we have a better understanding of any area of life that communication touches, which is virtually everything, from our interpersonal conversations and relationships to, uh, from our interpersonal conversations and relationships to our coworkers and colleagues to work, to the people we meet on the preferences, our sense of humor, our sense of how we define what it means to be known, to know and be known to understand and to be understood. You know the activities we delight in, how we spend our leisure time, how we recuperate when we're tired, emotionally, physically, psychologically, what energizes us and gives us, brings us joy. All of these areas are touched by the talk types and more, because communication finds us in each of those areas.

Amanda Kenderes: 19:11

So let's take an example the three communication categories, abc, so informing, relating, meaning, making. We can think of that as factual talk, maybe small talk and deep talk. Just you know if we want to really kind of give it an easy nickname. And but these three communication categories are really drives, three different drives. Drives, three different drives. What drives us to talk is actually a deeper drive of what are we looking for in life, why do we do what we do? So if you have A in your talk type, objective understanding, informing, factual talk we have that we're looking to objectively understand and to be objectively understood when we listen. So this not only impacts how we talk but how we listen to others.

Josh Porthouse: 20:22

Well, that's interesting.

Josh Porthouse: 20:24

All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Amanda Kenderes: 21:17

So if you have A in your talk type objective understanding, informing factual talk, we have that we're looking to objectively understand and to be objectively understood when we listen. So this not only impacts how we talk but how we listen to others.

Josh Porthouse: 21:36

Well, that's interesting.

Amanda Kenderes: 21:38

We're listening for factual information anytime people are talking. And if somebody's doing small talk or talking about oh, this is my favorite movie and I find it so funny in this scene when this happens Well, there's no real facts there for that person to take in, it's just somebody's opinion, subjective experience. Yeah, there's no objective facts there. So it would be easy for that person, the A, to just kind of check out if, if they're not intentional and aware of this talk type model, they might just check out and that would be, um, it would be unfortunate because the, the B, who's doing the small talk, is trying to connect yeah, same thing you know, with with the, with the C, if we skip to the sea, um, they're looking to subjectively understand. So they're looking for the deep questions and answers. Um, you know what really does lead to our growth as human beings? And, and sometimes it's challenges, often it's challenges. But can joy also lead to our growth? These fascinating conversations? There's no, maybe objective way to measure some of that stuff. That's the trouble with the social sciences. So we try to understand it subjectively as best we can. That's C, and these folks are listening for those reasons. Now, if we think about A and C as wanting to understand and be understood. What's A and C, what's B, bs, the, the relators, you know, who are into small talk or sharing their experiences. They aren't trying to make a deeper come to a draw deeper conclusions and come to a deep understanding. They're they're looking to be heard. That's it. They want to witness for what they're saying.

Amanda Kenderes: 23:51

One of the things that I just love about what this model does for us is that it shifts us away from some of the old, tired models of communication that we've grown up with and we've been taught in the classrooms. And one of the things that we hear over and over is if you want to be a better communication, if you want to improve your communication, what's one of the number one rules? Don't interrupt. But here's the thing that only really applies to bees, because their objective, their goal for talking is to be heard. So, yeah, interrupting is antithetical to being heard.

Amanda Kenderes: 24:34

And if you interrupt a, b, they're probably going to think that you don't care or that you're not listening. But if your goal isn't to be heard, it's to be understood. So, in other words, a's and C's If somebody interrupts you to say, hey, wait a minute, I didn't quite catch that. Could you explain that before we move on? I'm not upset at all if I'm an A or C. I'm thankful that I got interrupted, actually because now the interruption is working to further the objective or the top goal and it helps me to see that we're actually on the same page.

Josh Porthouse: 25:14

Okay, all right, so I can appreciate there's a little bit of a values proposition behind some of the concepts, let's call it. But we had also talked a little bit earlier about how it can better manage social anxieties as well, and there's all sorts of what would you call them, all sorts of catalysts or causes or triggers. I guess for any of this anxiety to come up right, it could be an unfamiliar situation. It could be unfamiliar anything, I guess Situation, people, topics, whatever. What does it do for that?

Amanda Kenderes: 25:51

Yeah, no social anxiety, it whatever. What does it do for that? Yeah, no, social anxiety. It's huge and it's particularly salient these days so many people seem to be having. Especially after COVID, it just, you know, the anxiety just kind of went up exponentially.

Amanda Kenderes: 26:08

So one of the reasons that we may have social anxiety, or anxiety in general, is we don't know what's going to happen, we don't know what to prepare for, and it's that unknown and that's scary. But here's the thing how do we tackle unknowing? We tackle unknowing by knowing. That's the antidote. If we don't know something, well then if we could just know it, we could relax a little bit more. You know, if somebody is financially stressed but I said, hey, you know, you're going to get $1,000 next week by Friday, or $10,000 or whatever they need, oh, okay, oh, now, all of a sudden, let's go have a sandwich, right?

Amanda Kenderes: 26:58

So I think one of the things that with social anxiety and what's involved in social relationships talk, communication, interaction. So if we can understand, talk better, then we can navigate it better and we're replacing unknown with you know, unknowing, with knowing, and that's huge. The other thing that it does is it validates us in that context. So it validates us in the sense of like as a kid, when I didn't feel like I belonged communicationally. Then I realized, oh my gosh, there's this, there's this talk type model.

Amanda Kenderes: 27:39

I've had kind of internalized the message that something was wrong with me growing up and that there was this kind of right way of talking that I just didn't fit into. But when I unpacked, when I sort of discovered this talk type model, I realized, oh, wait a minute, there isn't one right way of talking, or one normal way of talking, as it were. There are six normal ways of talking and I'm one of them and that's okay. And when that happens we boost our confidence For social anxiety. When we have a combination of a boosted confidence plus an extended vocabulary to help us understand and navigate talk and social interactions, we approach the situation from a very different place.

Josh Porthouse: 28:34

Yeah, it sounds like it and then controlling the chaos I guess you mentioned the unknowns and then the knowing or the knowns and trying to identify these sort of footholds in social circumstances. And we've talked a lot about kids. Footholds in social circumstances, you know, and we've talked a lot about kids. Obviously it's not specific to age or gender or ethnicity or any of those things, they're just natural human tendencies, I guess preferences for communicating more effectively.

Josh Porthouse: 29:05

But do you think there's any application to that professionally? I don't mean as a professor specifically, strictly speaking, I mean like in an occupational environment, to say, for example, here's a good example I have a lot of friends who have put in 20 years, 25 years in a federal position or in the Department of Defense, and then they get out and they're left to their own devices, defense, and then they get out and they're left to their own devices. But you can't communicate the same way in Walmart, necessarily, or with your family necessarily, that you can in the infantry or, like in my case, in the Marine Corps, almost writ large. I can't take that sort of conversational style really anywhere. So what's the relevance there? You start to identify some of these things, but then what do you do with the application? How can it help? How can we use it?

Amanda Kenderes: 30:01

So we have at work here, we have talk types, six talk types, which are universal, and then these six talk types are interacting with other systems and frameworks. So I was raised, you know, with, with a parent working for the U S embassy, so so we were also federally employed and and I, I know, you know, we, we interacted with Marines, army, Um, and yeah, there are going to be there. There are definitely different ways of interacting within these groups and it's the same when you're retired, interacting with your friends or at other jobs and other positions, certain white collar jobs, or banking, or construction, you name it. Every vocation has its own cultural standards, policies, expectations and so on. But within those other frameworks we still have the six talk types. Those don't change.

Josh Porthouse: 31:12

All right, folks, sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Amanda Kenderes: 31:48

Every vocation has its own cultural standards, policies, expectations and so on. But within those other frameworks we still have the six talk types. Those don't change. So we're going to be interacting with the same six talk types wherever we go. The difference isn't going to be the talk types that we interact with, it's going to be the culture of the organization that we're working for, the environment. That's what's going to be different. So if we can learn these six talk types, at the very least now we can navigate any. You know we can navigate different environments. We can limit the new things that we have to learn and figure out and we can reduce the time it takes to connect with people within those environments.

Amanda Kenderes: 32:51

So if I know that, okay, say, I start a new job somewhere, I get to know my boss. I know the talk types, get to know my boss just a little bit and I can tell okay, he's a BA. Well, now I know, okay, I'm a CA. I lead with the deep stuff back. Second, he doesn't have C in his talk type. He's probably going to be uncomfortable if I try to do C.

Amanda Kenderes: 33:24

So I'm just going to intentionally not go there and I'm going to intentionally turn up the volume on B. I don't have B in my talk type, but I can access it. It's in the shadows there. Let me pull some out, let me ask him how his weekend was. It's not what I do, naturally, but let me go for it. So it helps us to intentionally kind of make our interactions intentional instead of coincidental. And what that does is it improves our connections, makes the other person feel connected in a way that they wouldn't have probably otherwise, and then we can fast forward, reduce the time between the learning curve, I guess, so that we're already we can hit the ground running, so to speak, wherever we go.

Josh Porthouse: 34:31

You know, I heard that having a, we can hit the ground running, so to speak, wherever we go. You know, I heard that having a call it, in a manner of speaking, a bunch of little things to pay attention to is sort of the mark of the amateur. Understanding all of the little things you need to do to where it becomes muscle memory and you can effectively prioritize, is the mark of master. And that was a sports analogy, but I think it fits the same here. And if I hadn't said sports, nobody would have known the difference.

Amanda Kenderes: 34:57

Oh, absolutely.

Josh Porthouse: 34:59

Going to the new school, going to the new job, going to a new family, you're a step parent, you're a meeting, you're whatever spouses, parent, in-laws for the first time, whatever it is all the first times in a social circumstance. I think it makes a huge difference. Everything you're describing right now and having that kind of stability, I think helps alleviate a lot of the little things and so we don't have to stress as much about who we are in the situation or in the moment or who we need to be in the moment, just being in the moment, and I think that makes all the difference.

Amanda Kenderes: 35:35

Absolutely, and we don't take um personally as personally other people who are just being themselves too. So it gives us kind of the yeah, um, the the freedom and confidence to be ourselves.

Amanda Kenderes: 35:48

Yeah, the freedom and confidence to be ourselves, yeah, but it also allows other. We extend grace to other people who are just being themselves. I talk in the book about A, b and C bombs, what I call conversation bombs, where some people you know will shut down, they'll make a joke to shut down a type of talk that's happening, that they don't want to happen anymore. You know, and if I were talking to my BA boss and I and I was doing some C and getting kind of heartfelt and he was getting uncomfortable and he made a joke like oh gosh, it's starting to sound like therapy in here, somebody make it, you know. And and he tried to shut down the talk, if I didn't know about the talk type model and what his talk type was, I, I, I might feel hurt Like gosh, he doesn't care. Um, you know, this is important to me and or push it, or push it.

Josh Porthouse: 36:46

Yeah.

Amanda Kenderes: 36:46

And and. Now that I know about it, I can say okay, he's a BA, yeah, he's uncomfortable with C and that's the best way he knows how to handle it. Okay, I'll cut him some slack, you know.

Josh Porthouse: 37:01

It's powerful.

Amanda Kenderes: 37:02

It's powerful.

Josh Porthouse: 37:04

Wow Well. So let me ask you this then, and for the sake of time I think this may be one of my last two or three questions for you, but knowing all of these things, going through your life to this point, professionally, personally, however, you want to apply it what has it done for you? I mean, you mentioned you weren't a loner before, but you weren't quite in the mix, you know. So what has it done now for your own sense of self and self-worth?

Amanda Kenderes: 37:34

It's given me over the years a deep, grounded sense of self I've come to in the best possible way. I've come to love myself more, and not in an egoistic sense, just in a very kind sense. I think we can be unkind to ourselves, um, sometimes, and um you know, we are often our our own worst critic, and it's it's helped me to be kind to myself, um, to accept things as they are, which is huge because if we don't resist what is, then we can be present. And it's helped me to make better decisions. Now I've made my share of decisions that I would go back and change if I could just like anybody. But the more that I see the applications of the talk type model in my own life, the more I realize how it can be used for decision-making. And again, I experimented as a child and I continue to experiment in my life now. And it is powerful. It can be powerful for decision-making, for everything from the movie that we choose to watch to the person we choose to marry.

Josh Porthouse: 39:19

Idaleo is well known for saying that the quality of our life depends boils down to the quality of our decisions.

Amanda Kenderes: 39:22

I like that, and so I have been able to make better decisions and when I don't make, a very good decision it's helped me to extend grace to myself.

Josh Porthouse: 39:34

Well, that's a powerful point too, isn't it? It gives you the opportunity to process.

Amanda Kenderes: 39:40

Yeah.

Josh Porthouse: 39:42

Wow, okay. So let me ask you this. We've spent a lot of this conversation talking about your book. Where do people go to get it? How do people find out about it? What are the options?

Amanda Kenderes: 39:55

They can go to Amazon and get the book Barnes Noble as well. Talktypescom and amandacanderescom If they want to get in touch with me directly. That would be the way. It's a little form on there.

Josh Porthouse: 40:07

just fill it out and then we can be in touch well, uh, first of all, for anybody who's new to this show or has been watching this conversation, uh, depending on the player you're streaming this conversation on, you can click the drop down arrow for see more, or show more, depending on what it says, and in the description you'll see links to amandacanderescom and to Amazon, and so you can track down Amanda's book as well and then reach out and get in touch and if that's easier for you, do it.

Josh Porthouse: 40:38

That's why it's there. Amanda, I love this conversation, I love this topic, and I got to tell you since we first started talking give or take about a month ago I can't say it enough how accurate your assessment was in that book, or, at least in my case, how accurate it's been. So I appreciate your insight and the conversation and this opportunity to talk, but also the fact that you actually distilled it down in a manner that was easy to understand and wrote it down so that I could get it out of your head. Put it on my shelf. And wrote it down so that I could get it out of your head. Put it on my shelf.

Amanda Kenderes: 41:18

So I really appreciate the opportunity from a few different aspects. Thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate that and I do. I look help to unlock just some insight and vision for one person or another person. It means the world to me, so thank you.

Josh Porthouse: 41:40

Absolutely, absolutely, for everybody. Obviously, listening to this conversation or watching it, in this case, you can go to our website, transactingvalueppodcastcom, and you can listen to all of our other conversations as well. But here's what you're going to find on the homepage and this is pretty special In the top right-hand corner is a button that says Leave a Voicemail. Now, when you click on it, it's two minutes of talk time in whatever style you prefer, and it's all yours. But let me make a recommendation Let us know what you think of the show, give us some feedback.

Josh Porthouse: 42:10

Let us know about the content, the topics, the questions, insight. Right, give us some feedback. But also let Amanda know what you think of the book, about the topics, any points of contention, anything you think where she may be wrong. I'm willing to bet she's going to debate it with you if you give her the opportunity. So talk through it a little bit, but put it in your voicemail and we can forward the audio file over to her as well. It's a pretty powerful mechanism, so please take advantage of it. But otherwise, amanda, again thank you for your time, thank you for this opportunity, and I really do appreciate it. So I can't say that enough.

Josh Porthouse: 42:47

Absolute pleasure absolute pleasure, absolutely and for everybody else. Thank you, guys for tuning in and staying with us through the conversation and we'll see you again next time. So until then, that was Transacting Value. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together. To check out our other conversations or even to contribute through feedback, follows, time, money or talent and to let us know what you think of the show, please leave a review on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom.

Josh Porthouse: 43:19

We also stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms like Spotify, iheart and TuneIn. You can now hear Transacting Value on Wreaths Across America radio. Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg. Slash transactingvalue to sponsor a wreath and remember, honor and teach the value of freedom for future generations. On behalf of our team and our global ambassadors, as you all strive to establish clarity and purpose, ensure social tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty or individual sovereignty of character for yourselves and your posterity, we will continue instigating self-worth and we'll meet you there Until next time. That was Transacting Value.