Rediscovering Yourself After Divorce: A Conversation with Tracey Gramenz

Are you feeling lost in the aftermath of a divorce? You are not alone. In our latest episode of Transacting Value, we dive deep into the emotional turmoil and transformational opportunities that divorce often presents. Join the conversation with Tracey Gramenz, a divorce coach, who shares insights on rediscovering your identity and rebuilding self-worth amidst the chaos of separation. Through relatable client stories and transformative experiences, our discussion shines a light on the potential for personal growth disguised beneath the layers of grief and identity crises.

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To learn more about Tracey and The Aligned Divorce: Your Roadmap back to You: https://www.traceygramenz.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Episode
• 10:00 Understanding the Role of Values in Our Lives
• 30:00 The Impact of Divorce on Identity
• 45:00 Tracy Grahmins: Her Journey and Insights
• 1:00:00 Cultivating Personal Values Post
• 1:20:00 The Importance of Communication in Relationships
• 1:35:00 Client Stories: Navigating Through Divorce
• 1:50:00 Embracing Growth in the Face of Change
• 2:05:00 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Transcript

Josh Porthouse: 0:00

The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience. Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.

Tracey Gramenz: 0:49

You've got to know individually your values, separate from the relationship, and then you have to know your values together as a couple and actually have a conversation about it rather than just go on autopilot.

Josh Porthouse: 1:06

Today, on Transacting Value, we're talking regaining identity after divorce. Now, for some, divorce means celebrate and for others, reinvent, but for most people, it also means turmoil and confusion and stress and identity crisis. And so today we're talking to divorce coach, tracy Grahmins. All about options and ways we can regain our identity in the process and rebuild our families, reinstigate our self-worth. So, without further ado, I'm Josh Portos, I'm your host and, from SDYT Media outside of Tampa, florida, this is Transacting Value. Tracy, how are you doing?

Tracey Gramenz: 1:55

I'm doing really well today, Josh. How about yourself?

Josh Porthouse: 1:58

I'm good. I'm good. I appreciate you taking time out of your day too. I understand you've got a life and a career, and to just sit down and have a conversation maybe is something you had to squeeze in, so I don't want it to go unnoticed. Thank you first off. Before we get started oh, my pleasure is necessary.

Josh Porthouse: 2:40

So let me say this my background is primarily in the Marine Corps, in the infantry at that, and I know more people who are or have been divorced than who are or have stayed married, and so the majority of my professional sphere is very similarly like-minded in that regard as it applies to relationships and whatever jadedness comes with that. So I'm excited to hear some of these perspectives you've got. But let's start here before I get ahead of myself. For anybody and everybody new to the show, especially those who are unfamiliar with you, your practice, your insights, your perspective, let's just take a couple minutes and set the stage for a little bit of resonance here. The floor is yours. Who are you, where are you from and what sorts of things have shaped your perspective on life?

Tracey Gramenz: 3:17

Yeah, I'm Tracy and I live in Seattle, sunny Seattle right now, surprisingly in November, when, um, when we're recording this and my work is working with women as a divorce coach and, um, a lot of people don't even know what a divorce coach is. Um, but really what it is is a guide to like, walk alongside you, and what I always tell my clients is help you stay aligned or find your alignment while you're going through one of the top, most stressful seasons of life, which is divorce, and partly why we're having this conversation is a lot of that work is identifying or re-identifying values. Of that work is identifying or re-identifying values. So I help people reshape and reimagine their values so that they can walk in alignment as they move forward into the next season of their life.

Josh Porthouse: 4:16

Which I assume is not easy for anybody involved, probably you included.

Tracey Gramenz: 4:23

Yeah, I mean I really have rethought about how I view divorce as I dive deeper into this work, and I think the initial reaction from others when you talk about divorce is usually I'm so sorry or that's so hard, or all of the hard side of it. But what I really get excited about actually is all of the opportunity for growth that there is. You know, when you're ripped open and like when you've tilled up the soil, that is the time to plant seeds right. It's that moment, that is the time and it's timestamped, and so it's actually a really exciting time, and the hard things that happen are things that can make you stronger, and so it's like everything is going for you and that's really the reframe I try to help my clients get to. Everything is going for me, Everything is working out to the benefit of me and my children.

Josh Porthouse: 5:22

Yeah, and do you actually have a garden?

Tracey Gramenz: 5:27

I do have a garden. I'm more of a construction girl, but I have a garden in my backyard.

Josh Porthouse: 5:32

Okay, okay. Yeah, I was wondering, just so I can prep my metaphors to match you a little bit. I didn't want it to go unnoticed.

Tracey Gramenz: 5:41

I do a lot of house renovation metaphors like tear down to rebuild, um that is. That is a lot of where I go usually, but the garden one.

Josh Porthouse: 5:50

It's just something that it's a good image, right I like it absolutely and, from what I understand, uh, actually you did tear down and rebuild and redecorate and reframe everything that I'm seeing in the background. Right, that was all you.

Tracey Gramenz: 6:04

Yeah, yeah, I know no one could like see these, but yeah, I did this like full um remodel of this whole house, like everything you see here um my hands have touched and created.

Josh Porthouse: 6:15

Yeah, that looks really cool. That's gotta be satisfying too.

Tracey Gramenz: 6:18

Oh my gosh, yeah, and that's the thing I think, that I, I, um. So my other brief background is five years ago I went through my own divorce and, in the process, purchased the home I'm in now. That was set to be torn down and it's like the beautiful metaphor of like anything can be. Anything can be restored and redeemed, anything can be made beautiful, and as I was restoring and reimagining my life, I had a physical space to also transform. You know, and I, and it was a good reminder that transformation is slow and also, when you start with a clear vision, you don't give up. You know where you're going and so you just keep working and you go by the drywall, you haul the concrete in, you rip out the flooring, like just the whole process. You know, but you just keep going because you know every effort. Every day, when you put forth a little bit of effort, it is getting you closer to that goal when you have clarity but in the beginning you don't have anything.

Josh Porthouse: 7:22

You may not even actually have anything, so right, I mean what? What then? Like you know, you go from I don't know a monday where you're hearing. I'll see you after work. To tuesday, I'll see you in court. You know everything. There's always the the moment where, pre-moment, everything seems okay to somebody. Chances are usually at least that's the case, I think in some sense the lucky ones know it's coming yeah but that's not always the case.

Josh Porthouse: 7:57

And so if you don't have that clarity because of the, the stress, the overwhelm, the anxiety, the, the identity crisis, any of these other things, well then you can't really start with a clear vision. So what has to come first in those the overwhelm, the anxiety, the identity?

Tracey Gramenz: 8:10

crisis, any of these other things, well then you can't really start with a clear vision. So what has to come first in those cases? You know, as coaches, we are always forward focused, right. So we're looking at where are we going, not necessarily where we came from. So, in a way, sometimes the backstory not that it doesn't matter but you are still going to have to transform.

Tracey Gramenz: 8:28

Regardless, your life has changed, whether it was your decision to leave, whether you got handed paper as well after you dropped your kid off at preschool, or whatever you you've got to move forward and and rediscover what's important to you, what your values are. And so I don't like to get too caught up in whatever the backstory is, because that can hold us back, because what we're doing now is we're moving forward and we are growing, and so the step one is kind of like we untangle right. I mean, literally in the first session I had with people, we sit down and talk about values to say what, what is important to you now, for me, the beginning of my journey, that my three most important things, my values, became one my kids and, specifically, time with them. So when I had my kids, all of a sudden you know you're not with your kids every night. So when I had them, my value was I will always be with them. I'm not going to make other plans, I'm not going to squeeze something else in. I'm not going to say yes to an event. No, it's an automatic no. I can look at my calendar a year from now and I can tell you yes or no if I will do that thing.

Tracey Gramenz: 9:40

And then also for me, I just wanted peace. That became actually my core pillar of value, and I learned what it looks like for me, what it felt like, and so all of my decisions ricocheted off of okay, is this bringing me closer to peace or further away? And then, for me, my third one was beauty. Like I tore down my heart, I realized I want to see beauty, I want to have beauty around me, I want to be a beautiful person, and so it actually really did start with remodeling my home, you know.

Tracey Gramenz: 10:14

And so I take clients to that same process in a conversation. So a lot of people think they know what their values are, but they don't actually talk them out. Or maybe they had gotten used to living a certain way with their partner. Now that partner's no longer, and so they have the opportunity to say, well, did I really like skiing or ski vacations, or is that just something we did? Did I really value, you know, whatever they got into the rhythm of doing? Did I really value that, or is that just a habit? Right, a habit and a value are very different things.

Josh Porthouse: 10:47

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And on one hand, like I said most well before we recorded, most of my professional career in the Marine Corps has been in the infantry, so a lot of my perspective tends to get grounded in, you know, actually tactical environments or mission planning or whatever, because that's when my frontal lobe developed. I guess I don't know, but it became my baseline to sort of understand the world. And so we have this concept. And in the 1950s he was a fighter pilot, he was a colonel, john Boyd, and he came up with this concept to help fighter pilots more quickly orient themselves in a dogfight, whether fighting other planes and pilots in the sky, because everything's happening at Mach 1 or faster, I don't actually know. I'm on the ground, but quickly, right. And so his cycle was observe, orient, decide, act, and it was all relatively short syllabic words that they could think about when the blood's rushing down out of their heads, and something to keep them focused and give them something to key in on. And I feel like high stress situations, like obviously during a divorce, key in on and I feel like high stress situations, like obviously during a divorce, isn't moving that fast, but it certainly feels that way and there's got to be this simple sort of framework, I think, just initially to ground you and I think you're exactly right, you said it, I think, beautifully where values can be that mechanism. And so maybe it's the simple conversation of not worrying about what you don't have or can't control, but what do you have, which ultimately, I think, is your character and perspective on the world. So I think it's a great point.

Josh Porthouse: 12:35

But then how do you instigate that? Because, like you said, if your identity is rooted in a married couple, namely you and somebody else, and then it's just you, then how do you know? I mean, you question everything. That sounds just as overwhelming. Do you give yourself all the options? That sounds super anxious. How do you narrow down from many to few? Then?

Tracey Gramenz: 13:02

Yeah, I think it begins by just noticing. I think you pay attention to yourself. What do you naturally gravitate toward? What would you, what do you find yourself doing, no matter what? What sparks a little bit of joy in you? Like, pay attention to yourself, and I think sometimes we, especially with big words like values, or what am I doing with my life? It gets so big, but all of us live each day, one day at a time, right, and so I try to like step back actually from the big and look at, look at the day, break it down. What brought you joy today, you know? Oh, it was when my clients with being in the garden. That's important to me. Oh, I brought my neighbor some soup. Oh, so your value is helping. Or your value is nature. Oh, I see you know. So look at the little things that you do and then notice that you can extrapolate from there what your value is.

Josh Porthouse: 14:06

All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Tracey Gramenz: 15:11

So look at the little things that you do and then notice that you can extrapolate from there what your value is.

Josh Porthouse: 15:21

Okay, so is it always rooted in some kind of act now you got me doing the plant thing is it always anchored in some sort of uh, action or activity identifying your values, or is it based on a perspective and a thought process? I mean, where where do you think in your experience, maybe individually or working with clients do values come from?

Tracey Gramenz: 15:47

I think that I'll just speak from my own personal experience. Um, I, when I was noticing what I valued, what was important to me. It was kind of a? Um, it was multiple things, sometimes it was actions. So I found myself always going down to watch the sunset the night.

Tracey Gramenz: 16:05

My kids would go back to be with her dad, and what is that? That's a value of valuing nature, a value in beauty, a valuing time alone, you know, and a prioritizing, just being and being okay with just myself, you know. And so I noticed this activity that turned into kind of a core value for me of I'm someone who values time and nature, who values beauty, and then, with kid stuff that is more like that was more conceptual thinking. Ok, I have this new structure of time, how do I want to go about and decide, you know, decide once, I'm deciding once when I have my kids, I'm not making other plans, it's already decided, I don't have to rethink. So I think that there's many ways you can go about it, but it just first starts with getting quiet and getting um, honest with yourself and just kind of noticing yourself, you know is it the same concept or framework?

Josh Porthouse: 17:06

I mean, you said, for example, after your divorce, you're able to see your kids. Well, after mine, I wasn't. We were in two different States for years, so actually up until recently within the last year, and so you know, we spent five years in a long distance relationship. Do you think it's the same framework, then, that you can or can they shift and change depending on circumstance, or is it subjective time of day? I mean, how consistent are these values? Do you think?

Tracey Gramenz: 17:35

Well, I think, like in that case, like if, if you were my client and we were working you know way, you know, years ago, when that first started, we would probably have a conversation around your value of parenting and what being a father means to you, and we would probably talk something around saying a family bond, a bond between a parent and their children, is there forever and there are circumstances that can take us physically apart from our kids for days or even years, but that doesn't change your value as a loving parent or the unbreakable bond that we have with our kids. And so it would be more what is my value system as a parent when I'm not in control of the time? You know, because you are in control of your perspective.

Josh Porthouse: 18:26

Yeah, sure, and so I guess that at that point it would be relatively subjective to changing factors or or whatever opportunities presented themselves to reevaluate if necessary.

Tracey Gramenz: 18:37

Yeah, yeah, so it would just be more. I mean that kind of shifts a little bit more to mindset work, which is also a big part of, you know, the any, the divorce process and certainly any any transitional work that we do. But yeah, I mean it all kind of dovetails together your values, your mindset and then your strategies to enact and live by your values.

Josh Porthouse: 19:00

OK, well, well. So let me challenge that point for a second, then, because I thought I knew at the time actually about five years ago. I thought I knew at the time. Okay, well, this is what I value, this is how I see the world, this is how I prioritize whatever inputs are happening around me, and I think initially I felt communication was important and authenticity was important. I'm not sure I really knew what they meant or to what extent I thought they were important, but I remember thinking something similar. My point is then I filled it with work.

Josh Porthouse: 19:38

I found crutches and coping mechanisms and other options, because even though I recognized those things, I'm not entirely sure they were grounded in much of anything, let alone anything productive. It was circumstantially, as it's turning out, something that I just happened to try to whatever degree of effect, but then supplemented with whatever I was getting into. I go to the gym twice a day just to spend six hours anywhere but home. Uh, you know, go out with buddies or drink, or sit on the back porch or whatever, whatever, any number of things you know, stay at work late just because, and was all this because you were avoiding um that, that pain or that transition, or being away from your kids, or what was the root of all that?

Josh Porthouse: 20:31

Well, that's an interesting question. I think in my case, what I was more avoiding was the overwhelm and honesty with myself about myself, because I'd never thought about it. I had to do, you know, whatever blue collar work, or after I enlisted, obviously it was all department of defense stuff, whatever they told me I had to do, and there was never really any time or need to think about it, because your focus is everybody else, and so I think that's what scared me the most initially, and then the overwhelm of, well, now I don't know how to do it or what to do or or why I need to do it. I'm fine, I'll be okay. You know, is that because the anchor of your role was taken from you?

Josh Porthouse: 21:23

I don't think I knew my role to begin with. I think I well, at least I don't think I recognized it, let alone knew it. You know, it's not like it was my fourth marriage or or whatever. I mean, both my parents were divorced as well, so I really never saw, or or at least, if I did see it, I never really recognized what that role could be, and maybe that contributed to a little bit of my own comfort or complicity in the, I guess, grieving process. But it was easier because it was a routine to just cope and swap and supplement with work or staying busy or whatever, because I didn't know how to slow down, which also probably directly correlated to the divorce.

Josh Porthouse: 21:59

But, yeah, and and everything that went with it, cause we were on different, different planes conversationally, uh, cognitively, I was way behind. Where she was. She was more concerned with the family and focusing on these types of quality time things. I was like, concerned with the family and focusing on these types of quality time things. I was like I'm focused on providing and an income and the stuff outside the family unit structure, you know, and I assume that's pretty common though, is it?

Tracey Gramenz: 22:28

yeah, well, for sure. I mean, I think the common, the most um common cause of divorce, when initiated by a woman, is a woman hard of feeling alone and tired of feeling like she's doing it all right. Where the male in a traditional male female relationship, where the man is providing and feels like he's checked off the box and the woman is, you know, got her list 20, 20 items deep and and she feels tired of feeling unsupported, and the man gets kind of blindsided because he's like, but literally all I do is support you financially and that's the disconnect right that leads to a lot of separation.

Josh Porthouse: 23:09

Okay, so how do you communicate through it before the point then?

Tracey Gramenz: 23:13

Yeah, before that.

Josh Porthouse: 23:14

Yeah, how do you work on communication and awareness and individual identity as a couple?

Tracey Gramenz: 23:22

Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of going back to the whole root of this. This your show is you've got to know individually your values, separate from the relationship, and then you have to know your values together as a couple. What do we? What do we value? Do we value time apart? Do we value independence? Do we value togetherness, like what? What do we actually care about and actually have a conversation about it rather than just go on autopilot? I think a lot of us just live in autopilot and then and we don't like to have hard conversations you know, or maybe we don't know ourselves you know a lot of folks that get married really young. Do you do you know what is valuable to you? Do you know what's important? You know, oftentimes either you don't or you do, and it changes.

Josh Porthouse: 24:12

Okay, fair. So that's that's obviously a great point as well, that it's normal, see, because I think what I heard initially and then now also from you people who get married young tend to run into issues sooner, you know, because you're maturing faster than maybe you're ready for. But also, I think the other point to that younger reference is in terms of maturity you just don't have the life experience to know you well enough, let alone to help somebody rely on you or vice versa, rely on somebody else. Yeah, exactly the A-frame is not strong enough.

Josh Porthouse: 24:50

And though then the top I think upper threshold to that comparison is okay. Well now I'm never going to be ready. Or how can I know that I'm ever ready? Will I ever be mature enough? The same reason people don't have kids or don't want you know that kind of argument. So how do you know then, when you're old enough to get married, or mature enough to know? Or is there a threshold?

Tracey Gramenz: 25:15

Yeah, I mean, I think that's just so individualized, right. I mean, we're, you know, we are constantly growing. I think that maybe one response to that to consider is, you know, reframing even how you look at partnerships and marriages and thinking is the goal of a marriage, um, to absolutely for sure stay together with someone for your whole life? Or is the goal? What I would suggest is the goal of a partnership is to uplift someone and help them reach their goals and have them do the same for you, while living in peace and continuing to do that day after day and, if that changes, being brave enough to say we are no longer helping each other. You know, I think we just look at longevity as the marker, the hallmark for a good marriage, and then divorce as a hallmark for failure, when really divorce can be the bravest thing that you can do and it can be the kindest thing that you can do with a partnership, when you're no longer aligned and you are having the courage to say this isn't working, so we're going to do something different.

Josh Porthouse: 26:33

All right, folks sit tight and We'll be right back on Transacting Value.

Josh Porthouse: 26:38

Join us for Transacting Value, where we discuss practical applications of personal values, every Monday at 9am on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom. Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays at noon on wreathsacrossamericaorg slash radio. On wreathsacrossamericaorg slash radio.

Tracey Gramenz: 26:56

Really, divorce can be the bravest thing that you can do and it can be the kindest thing that you can do with a partnership, when you're no longer aligned and you are having the courage to say this isn't working, so we're going to do something different.

Josh Porthouse: 27:12

Okay, well then, what's the threshold for that? Because then, well, is it the threshold for that? For what? Well, is it the first argument? You're like this isn't working, I'm out, or is it? You know what let's give? it 10 years.

Tracey Gramenz: 27:24

trigger? I think that's one of the most brutal questions to ask yourself. I personally remember literally Googling when.

Tracey Gramenz: 27:37

I'm on the internet, I was like should I leave my husband? Should I leave him if I don't love him? I felt like I just for so long I had this just pit in my stomach, a feeling like this isn't, this isn't right, like this doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem right. And I didn't, because I believed in commitment and marriage and sticking it out, and I had been told by society relationships are hard, just keep working, just keep working. And that message was over and over and over. And finally, I remember my brother called me he's like Tracy. Finally remember my brother called me he's like tracy.

Josh Porthouse: 28:18

Relationships require work, but it shouldn't be this hard.

Tracey Gramenz: 28:20

You know, and I think that that is such an individual gauge of like, what is the balance of work meaning? I care for my partner, so I'm going out of my way to be kind, be supportive. That is work. It's happy work, right. And then the work of the dread, oh my gosh. Like if your body turns up when they walk in the door and that happens, like for a month or a year or five years.

Josh Porthouse: 28:45

And it's more subconscious than conscious.

Tracey Gramenz: 28:49

Yeah, it's not about like a fight or this or that. It's like are you? You have to just be so brave and honest with yourself and determine am I being aligned in this situation? And you know, the average person attempts to leave seven times before actually a relationship ends. So, and also, what I personally experienced too, is divorce is so hard that it does not be easy out, and you know this too. Like divorce is very hard, it's brutal, and no one would do it If the alternative was easier. Right, we only step into it because it's really it's, it's, it's so. It's such an upheaval of your life and I'm no, I'm no divorce advocate. It's such an upheaval of your life and I'm no divorce advocate. I'm a alignment advocate. I am here to help people thrive. I'm not here to tell everyone to leave their marriages the minute they have a fight. Absolutely not. People come to me after they've already decided to leave their marriage right. I believe in partnership and commitment. That thing I believe the most in is aligned, empowered, peaceful humans.

Josh Porthouse: 29:59

I can appreciate that and I think everything and this is my personal opinion, I mean everything stems from family, because it gives you at least a baseline or should. Normally there's exceptions to all of these things, but it gives you a baseline for trust and courage and communication, love, selfishness and altruism and all sorts of different things. And then the thresholds for those things. Is greed always bad? No, because I never one time got to get seconds when my younger brother was eating at the table with us. He did, though Right, I was older, I should. It's fine, your brother needs to eat. He's a growing boy. You know like okay, but you learn. You know sometimes that's okay too. And then other times when there's extra rolls.

Josh Porthouse: 30:55

I'm not giving him any because he had it yesterday, you know so then you learn fairness and greed or whatever you know.

Josh Porthouse: 31:02

There's all sorts of lessons you can learn, I think in family is my point. But it's not always family of origin. I think you can have families that you create over time, you and your friends. Or, in this example, I don't know how well you get along with your ex-husband, I'm in a amicable enough position with my ex-wife and that's okay, because then it also affords opportunities to teach that conflict is natural and how to work through conflict or how to attempt to, and life's not always fair, and all the other lessons that come with it.

Josh Porthouse: 31:39

But I'll tell you this, tracy, and obviously for everybody listening as well I think all of those what would you call those corollary points or qualifiers or whatever come from a value system, and so I'm curious, because you didn't just make all this stuff up. In fact you said when you sat down and thought about it it was already there. So this is a segment of the show called Developing Character and it's two questions. It's entirely vulnerable, or whatever, as you want to be in depth, to any of these answers, but I want to try to get the picture of a timeline here, all right, and see how things maybe changed or, naturally, over time influenced your perspective to be able to handle this maturely in some sort of a self-controlled you know, regulatory fashion, despite the chaos. So my first question is when you were growing up, what were some of your values then, or that you were exposed to or raised on? What was the foundation?

Tracey Gramenz: 32:39

So my foundation and my roots come from a Christian upbringing. My family was, I would say, like Christian in a good way. I mean it was very positive. It was um great community and we had always lots of friends, always um doing a lot of service work, you know it was. It was um very wholesome, I would say, and also for sure that it it was. Christianity in and of itself Isn't there's, there's belief and faith, and then there's cultural norms, right, or cultural beliefs, and those are not necessarily, even at the time, my values, and they are not anymore. But I think the thing that that was a real value or was really ingrained in us was like this very evangelical nature to christianity, like hey, if you don't believe in this, you're done, so you're out yeah you're going to hell and yeah

Tracey Gramenz: 33:47

yeah and um. So as I reflected on that, what I was raised with in my 20s, I first tried to quit God. I was like I'm done with this, and I think that was really kind of a turning point for me to own what I actually cared about. So for me, what I realized was that there's tenets and of that upbringing that I hold dearly and actually it's just one. It's just one that I really cling to and it and it's my foundation, which is we are all so loved. We're all just so loved, and I don't believe in a kind of man-made or culture-made belief system, a faith system, but I do believe in the energetics of the universe, I do believe in love and I do believe in that. We are intentionally here. We are intentionally here, yeah.

Josh Porthouse: 35:00

That's probably the most important thing that I took away from my upbringing. Okay, well then, growing up over, I can probably safely assume, the next few decades then what about now? What are some of your values now then?

Tracey Gramenz: 35:17

So now I think that, like I was sharing a little bit earlier, I didn't just get divorced and create values, but now I know what I care about.

Tracey Gramenz: 35:31

But I mean for me, I think it's really simple, right, I, I care about my family, I care about my friendships and I care about my personal physical health and peace of mind. Those are the things. So, if every day, I'm being with my kids, I'm connecting with at least one friend, I connect with my friends every single day a lot of them, and it's so important to me and I'm taking care of my body, I'm working out, I'm mountain biking, I'm doing whatever, and I'm keeping my mind peaceful by being in nature, being quiet, cleaning my house my favorite peace inducing activity um, you're like, you're so obsessed with cleaning. Um, those are things I mean. I think it's it's simple, right, like the how, like we're talking about also earlier. Each day it's tacked up, makes our life. So when you try to get your, keep your ingredients good and simple in your days, and that will make a good life, you know All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.

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Tracey Gramenz: 37:33

Each day is tacked up makes our life. So when you try to get your, keep your ingredients good and simple in your days and that will make a good life, you know.

Josh Porthouse: 37:45

Yeah, well, I think it can if you, if you recognize what you have. Yeah, if you don't, I think it can be just as neglected or or wasted, or or just omitted entirely because you don't. I think it can be just as neglected or wasted or just omitted entirely because you don't know what you've got. The beauty that you talked about, the simplicity and the peace that you've been talking about, the more you thought about it. I'm curious was that there before, or was it things that started to manifest the more you thought about it? You know what I mean? Was it always sort of resonant? You just didn't pay attention to it until you were able to slow down um, like my, my connection to beauty and peace or my need for that yeah to some of these values you're talking about now.

Josh Porthouse: 38:27

I mean, were they always there? You just didn't, you know, smell the roses, or something I don't know.

Tracey Gramenz: 38:33

Um, I do think, yes, I think that my perspective has always been rather similar. I think that I, when I speak of kind of rediscovering or redefining these values, a lot of it was just detangling from a really hard marriage, for you know that decade of my life that it was there. So I would say I still even had all these things throughout, you know, childhood, through the twenties, through my marriage and then post divorce. I think I'm just more aware of them and I more defined them and realize, recognize, as I get older, as we all get older, how important it is to talk about and define those things to so that you can make sure that you're living by what is important to you you know, okay, okay.

Josh Porthouse: 39:24

So is that a maturity consideration? You just it'll make sense when you're older. Get through it now, you'll be okay, you know, get a job and then slow down later. Or is that something you think? Yeah, with enough conscious effort, you can. You can piece this together and you can make it work and and figure out who you are, no matter your age, or cognitive development or whatever.

Tracey Gramenz: 39:51

I think both, and I think that we always have access to self-awareness and paying attention to life, living in gratitude, those things that sound so trite but are so profound. We all have access to that all, and I I believe I I did access that and lived by that along the way. You know, and and with age, I think that you do get a richer perspective and you do have more gratitude and you realize how much more simple everything is like, or the things that are really important are the simplest things, right, being kind, spending time with people that you love. You know being grateful, you know being aware of the magic that's happening all around you, and so, yeah, I think it's a both, both hands to that question.

Josh Porthouse: 40:42

Yeah, Well, I can appreciate that. I mean the experience alone of growing up and getting older, the experience alone is over time. If you know, you pay enough attention and I'm, and I think enough is a minimal degree of attention. But if you pay enough attention, you can start to see the patterns, you can start to see the events or the causation that led to some of them, or behaviors, actions, people, personality types or whatever it is. And so, yeah, I think it's easier to learn in hindsight because of those biases, prejudices, pattern recognition, habits of thought or action, you know.

Josh Porthouse: 41:17

But then what if you don't have it? I'm curious because, like you said earlier, plenty of people get married young and then get divorced young and then fall into a similar kind of relationship or with the same type of person, maybe all over again, just a different last name. So what then? Because obviously in that case, or generally let me say that generally then it wasn't recognized in advance to avoid it, to change some circumstance or some aspect or perception. So what advice do you have then? Suck it up, Wait till the third time.

Tracey Gramenz: 41:56

Just being kind to yourself and looking at it for what it is. Okay, you, you repeated a pattern. Now you're aware that you repeated a pattern. Okay, so you, now that you're aware of it, you can potentially not repeat it again. And if you do repeat it again, then you're going to be able to do it again. Take shame out of the equation and just look at the pattern. Don't beat yourself up, right? We live in so much shame and fear and guilt and those things. Don't let us get to the root of what we're actually dealing with. So take those off of your plate, recognize your pattern and try again. You know, our whole life is just about trying again and we constantly make mistakes or we constantly get a little bit or a lot bit off kilter, and we can. All we can do is recognize it and keep trying, you know.

Josh Porthouse: 42:51

Yeah, but that's well. That's hard in itself, not just the recognition but taking shame out of the equation or the grief or whatever.

Tracey Gramenz: 42:59

That's the most important thing, that is the most important thing.

Tracey Gramenz: 43:02

That is the most important thing. Just think about it. This here's another. This is just our gardens garden episode. Think about your yard. Right, it's got dandelions everywhere. You're going to go out there and you're just going to clip off the dandelions and what is going to happen? They're going to grow back, right. That is what happens when you only deal with shame. Shame is a dandelion, right, I'm going to take it off. I mean, I'm just going to only live in shame and you never get to the root and it's just whatever is happening there. When you're only addressing your shame, I'm so ashamed of that, I'm just self-loathing. Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed and you only live in that and you never go deeper. Then that same root is just going to grow another dandelion, another weed. It is scary to go deeper.

Josh Porthouse: 43:51

That's tough, even if you're by yourself in your house, alone in your own head, not even out loud.

Tracey Gramenz: 43:59

Oh my gosh your head can be the scariest place to be right, yeah.

Josh Porthouse: 44:09

So let me ask you this then, and I guess, for the sake of time, I only have a couple more questions for you. But when that happens, that sort of I'll say inescapable feeling, you're stuck in your head and you're working through, let's say, shame and guilt and fear and all of these things, I think you have two options you fight or flight and you say, no, I'm not dealing with it, and then you just go about your way and it becomes what it is, or you do something about it to whatever extent and maybe manage it better, as the outcome. Are either of those options better than the other? Are both bad or both good? Is there a good and bad? Is it acceptable, unacceptable? What's your opinion? Because everybody gets there at some point. It's part of the grief process.

Tracey Gramenz: 44:54

Yeah, I just think again, I mean everything in life being in your head, the shame, the cycling through all the stuff is, it can be inevitable. But I think that making it smaller is helpful. Like you're stuck in your head about a thing and the I don't know if, fight or flight, I could say, okay, what is better or worse, but I think, just breaking it down and being like, well, what can I do? You know, is there a small thing I can do? And again, as best you can, being kind to yourself and not beating yourself up and just being like, just sometimes I say out loud I mean I do this with my kids all the time.

Tracey Gramenz: 45:45

Hey, um, I got really upset and I I shouldn't have done that. I was, you know, triggered by this or whatever. I was dealing with this thing at work or this stressful situation and I let it boil over into my emotions. I'm sorry, but what I don't do is I don't like live in fear or live in shame that night, mulling it over. Oh my gosh, I gave my kids a poor, bad memory, right, oh my gosh, because then I'm just pulling down my own vibration, I'm lashing myself, and that serves no purpose. How is that moving toward growth. So I think the more concise answer is just move toward growth in the smallest, simplest way you can imagine in that moment. Just move toward growth.

Josh Porthouse: 46:33

Yeah, a fair amount of grace, dignity grace dignity, respect and obviously self-awareness makes a huge difference.

Josh Porthouse: 46:46

Yeah, I mean, it really doesn't take much if you're able and aware enough to say I'll be okay. You probably will be, at least for that day, at least for that hour. Yeah, you know, it makes a huge difference. So I have two more questions for you, and one is maybe a bit more personal. But of all of your experiences then let's say personally or working with your clients, what has it actually done, then, for your sense of self and how has it instigated your own self-worth?

Tracey Gramenz: 47:19

now that you've had time to reflect and process, I'm just really proud of myself, and so I feel really good about myself, I feel at peace. I think that's the biggest thing is, I'm proud of how I'm living, I'm proud of how I'm spending my time. I'm proud of how I'm spending my time. I'm proud of the alignment I've brought into my life with my values and my goals and the things that light me up, and so I think really fundamentally, it's just led to a much more peaceful mind, like we were talking about just now.

Tracey Gramenz: 47:55

My mind is at peace.

Josh Porthouse: 47:57

Wow, Well, congratulations then. I mean that in itself is a huge accomplishment, but in spite of everything else, especially yeah, yeah, wow, well, okay. So my last question, then, is for anybody that wants to get in touch with you or talk to you as a coach, or hear more of your story, where can people go, how can they get in touch with you, or what are some options?

Tracey Gramenz: 48:22

Yeah, they mainly can just go to my website, tracygramenzcom, and that's where you can book a call with me. I love, I love to. I have, you know, I have free discovery calls. So I love to jump on a 15 or 20 minute call just to see where you're at, you know, and it's so great to just hear someone else's voice and have someone offer to walk alongside you. So that's what I do. You want to just like see pictures of my kids and me on a mountain bike? You can look at my Instagram at Tracy, but most of my business life is is just through me directly on my website. But, yeah, actually I'm getting ready to build a cottage in the back of my house. So, yeah, do follow me on Instagram and I'll share a demolition and a really cool little build on my other side of my life.

Josh Porthouse: 49:12

Yeah, sick. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, that'd be cool, all right. Well then. So for anybody who's new or unfamiliar with the show depending on the player you're listening to this conversation on, there's a drop down arrow. You can click see more. You can click show more and you'll see a description, the show notes, the content for this conversation. In there you'll also be able to find links to Tracy's website, and then now the Instagram, because I got to see how this cottage turns out, so that's going to be there, but you guys can get in touch with her there as well. Tracy, I love the conversation. I actually wish we had more time. It was really cool to get to know you, super awesome to feel out your perspective, but then learn some things along the way. I really enjoyed it, so I appreciate it, thank you.

Tracey Gramenz: 49:57

Likewise. Thank you, Josh. So I appreciate it. Thank you Likewise Thank you, josh, of course.

Josh Porthouse: 50:01

Now saying that for anybody listening to this conversation, if you want to find any of our other conversations, you can go to transactingvaluepodcastcom. You can click to see all of our seasons and other episodes. You can leave us a voicemail and that includes any feedback you've got. If you want to send an audio file via voicemail on our website to Tracy, you can leave her one and we'll forward it along to her as well. You can give her feedback, you can give her encouragement, you can ask her questions. Totally cool, not a problem at all. Guys, I appreciate the opportunity and for you guys to stay with us listen to the conversation, everything was absolutely great from my opinion and my perspective, tracy. Thank you again to everybody else Until we talk again next time.

Josh Porthouse: 50:47

That was Transacting Value. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together. To check out our other conversations or even to contribute through feedback, follows, time, money or talent and to let us know what you think of the show, please leave a review on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom. We also stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms like Spotify, iheart and TuneIn. You can now hear Transacting Value on Wreaths Across America Radio Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg. Slash transactingvalue to sponsor a wreath and remember, honor and teach the value of freedom for future generations. On behalf of our team and our global ambassadors, as you all strive to establish clarity and purpose, ensure social tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty or individual sovereignty of character for yourselves and your posterity, we will continue instigating self-worth and we'll meet you there. Until next time. That was Transacting Value.