Transacting Value Podcast
Looking for ways to reinvigorate your self-worth or help instill it in others? You're in the right place. Transacting Value Podcast is a weekly, episodic, conversation-styled podcast that instigates self-worth through personal values. We talk about the impacts of personal values on themes like job satisfaction, mitigating burnout, establishing healthy boundaries, enhancing self-worth, and deepening interpersonal relationships.
This is a podcast about increasing satisfaction in life and your pursuit of happiness, increasing mental resilience, and how to actually build awareness around what your values can do for you as you grow through life.
As a divorced Marine with combat and humanitarian deployments, and a long-distanced parent, I've fought my own demons and talked through cultures around the world about their strategies for rebuilding self-worth or shaping perspective. As a 3d Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and a lifelong martial artist, I have studied philosophy, psychology, history, and humanities to find comprehensive insights to help all of our Ambassadors on the show add value for you, worthy of your time.
Ready to go from perceived victim to self-induced victor? New episodes drop every Monday 9 AM EST on our website https://www.TransactingValuePodcast.com, and everywhere your favorite podcasts are streamed. Check out Transacting Value by searching "Transacting Value Podcast", on Facebook, LinkedIn or YouTube.
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Transacting Value Podcast
A Doctor's Journey Through PTSD with Saloni Surah
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What is your worth when trauma strips away your identity? Dr. Saloni Surah takes us on a raw, unflinching journey through workplace bullying, stalking, and PTSD that ultimately transformed her understanding of self-value. This powerful episode illuminates the hidden epidemic of workplace bullying in high-pressure environments like medicine, where hierarchical structures and cultural expectations of resilience can normalize toxic behaviors. Saloni's insights reveal how bullying often stems from perpetrators' own insecurities, creating cycles of toxic behavior that institutions are reluctant to address.
(12:01) https://www.wreathsacrossamerica.org/Newsroom/WreathsAcrossAmericaRadio
(24:54) https://porthouse.kw.com/
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The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast host and guest and do not necessarily represent those of our distribution partners, supporting business relationships or supported audience. Welcome to Transacting Value, where we talk about practical applications for instigating self-worth when dealing with each other and even within ourselves, where we foster a podcast listening experience that lets you hear the power of a value system for managing burnout, establishing boundaries, fostering community and finding identity. My name is Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and we are redefining sovereignty of character. This is why values still hold value. This is Transacting Value.
Saloni Surah:I can forgive, but I can't forget. I can't sit here, across the table from you, planning services and doing the change that you wanted me to do, but you didn't support me in.
Josh Porthouse:Today on Transacting Value. What is your worth? How do you measure it when you have a stalker, when you're bullied, when you have all sorts of traumatic experiences that make you question you, your identity and your own role in life and in society? Today we're talking with author and eye movement and desensitization reprocessing therapist, dr Saloni Sarra. All about it, her experience and her insight in how to overcome some of these traumatic situations and regain your self-worth in the process. I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm your host and from SDYT Media, this is Transacting Value. Saloni, how are you doing?
Saloni Surah:I'm good thanks. How are you?
Josh Porthouse:I'm doing well. I appreciate you taking some time out of your day, or well out of your evening, and coming onto the show, so thank you for the opportunity.
Saloni Surah:You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Josh Porthouse:Absolutely. Now you have, in my opinion, a pretty extreme case of reality, right Like. You've been through some stuff that I don't think many people have or wish they can, and, unwitting, it sounds like it just happened to happen. So let's set the stage a little bit for everybody who's tuning into the conversation and who's watching this. That, I think, is an important step before we dive into anything in too great a detail. So in the next couple of minutes, who are you, where are you from and what sort of things are shaping your perspective on life now?
Saloni Surah:I am a former senior medic, so I was a HIV sexual health physician at that time, working in Dublin. I had a PhD in HIV and drug use. I my life was very defined around medicine. You know, I'm Asian, I live in the UK, I was living in Ireland and it's very much about achieving and doing and you know, being a doctor let's let's not pretend and unfortunately there's quite a bit of sexism in that but I enjoyed my job. At that time I was coaching and writing part time and yeah, it happened. You know, and it sounds crazy now because I've looked after a lot of crazy. I've gone into prisons, you know, I've got stories that I could just regale of my time working. But I didn't think it could happen to me some of that and I didn't realize for a long time that I had PTSD and all the things that have happened. But I talk about it now because I want to share it, because it is possible to come back and I suppose it's got me to that point of value and self-worth really.
Josh Porthouse:And when you say you worked in jails and there's quite a lot of things that you could regale you were in jail, like in prison, or what do you mean?
Saloni Surah:So we had a service that went out to the prison service and I mean I didn't run that. I went out a couple of times. As my PhD I ran a service for people with a history of drug use in the methadone clinic. So I used to go out. I developed a clinic, then I used to go out and run that. In the crazy days there wasn't any money so I used to go on the bus with meds. You know you did what you had to to get things done, but you know we had a lot of people from all over the world, a lot of people who had um been in and out, of you know, incarceration, prison guards, um patients and wards there are. There's a lot of stories.
Josh Porthouse:You know a lot of crazy stuff, yeah and so, aside from the successes and the achievement that you had, obviously in that field and aspects of building your medical career, did it actually impact your personal life, your professional life? It sounds like that's where everything sort of started for you, as a climax and as a shift.
Saloni Surah:I don't think the patients did per se. You look after individuals like that. It takes a toll and I had gone back as a senior clinician, part-time, because I knew energetically that I wanted to do other stuff and that it actually made me a better doctor. Um, I think probably some of it was childhood and I was unlucky. If I'm being honest with you, sometimes there's just an element of luck or unluck in life and I think I wasn't the only person that has had this happen to them in that workplace or since by some of the individuals concerned. But you know, I was unlucky.
Josh Porthouse:So what is the this that happened, or the aspect of unluck that you're referring to?
Saloni Surah:Well, I was quite badly bullied and it was quite insidious and it went on for quite a long time Probably. You know, as a doctor you have this element of resilience and putting up with stuff and I think part of that is that the training is an element at times quite bullying and kind of humiliating, and you know, once you've worked so long to get to that point, it's not so easy to walk away. So, yeah, I was badly bullied. It started really insidiously and it got quite extreme where I had PTSD from an attempted mediation that was basically a verbal attack on me for an hour and I then got physically unwell, which clearly were signs and symptoms of PTSD.
Saloni Surah:So sleep issues, weight issues, chest pain, crying at work, work eating a banana a day, I think. At the extreme I was probably sleeping two, three hours of a night, broken sleep, um, and then I got stalked as well online and physically and I couldn't get anybody to take it seriously. So the suggestions from you know, the guards or um colleagues or employers was that maybe I had sent the letters or that somebody else had done it a neighbor Because somebody had started sending anonymous letters out about me to people like my GP and my employer and my union rep at the time and they knew quite a level of detail about me rep at the time and they knew quite a level of detail about me.
Josh Porthouse:Well, okay, so when you, when you say bullying it's not like I'm assuming typical schoolyard push you into the locker, knock books out of your hands, kind of thing no, it's, you know, quite emotional.
Saloni Surah:A lot of gaslighting by colleagues, um, really insidious. So you kind of felt like you imagined it. You were being told that you were making it up because you were the more senior individual, that that couldn't be possible. That individual was a totally different person to the other people than with me. Now, I wasn't the only person in that workplace and, you know, often you'll find with individuals like this, there is a pattern of behavior. It's not just start somewhere, it's been going on in workplaces or, you know, schools or families. But you know, my part of it was extreme and the impact on me was very extreme.
Josh Porthouse:Yeah, was very extreme. Yeah Well, I guess, in any particular environment where this is taking place and I'm also bringing this up firsthand not quite to the same extent you're describing, and it was it was high school in my case, um, and not necessarily since. That, at least I've identified. But I started to question am I making this up? Am I just being paranoid? I mean, did that happen, or what sort of questions were you even asking yourself?
Saloni Surah:Yeah, absolutely. You know, it started quite innocuous and I remember and I quote this a lot going to a talk by one of the governors, so the chief, the person who ran one of the big prisons in Dublin and he was talking about bullying at workplaces and he said you know, if you're feeling uncomfortable, it's happening, but it's often very challenging to delineate. Do you know what I mean? And people don't want to deal with it. Um, and that that was absolutely it. Am I making this up? I was being told that I was being too much, that I had said things, I had done things. Uh, maybe I had sent the letters, you know, maybe I was making that up that's really harming at the extreme.
Saloni Surah:I remember leaving occupational health and I hated going there because just going to the workplace was traumatic. They weren't a good doctor, they weren't really interested in helping me and I was so paranoid. I remember walking home a different way and there was a shop there. I remember pretending to go into the shop and hiding because there was a machine outside it. So I pretended to go in, hid behind the machine. So if somebody was following me that maybe they thought I'd gone in. And you know. Walking home then a totally different way again. So, yeah, it totally made me paranoid and you know who can you trust?
Josh Porthouse:Absolutely. I mean mean, because at that point it's tough to even trust your own observations that I think that's an important aspect as well, because what we're saying here is that these aren't people giving you criticism and feedback that you're randomly meeting on social media. I mean, these are people that you trusted and that you worked with and that you held in, I assume, assume a relatively high esteem. You're all a bunch of doctors.
Saloni Surah:Oh yeah, absolutely. There are people I trusted, people I'd done my PhD supervisors with. I mean, one was a friend who warned me at one point that I was going to be scapegoated and then started copying behavior, because when behavior like that goes unchecked or is facilitated or enabled by other people, then other people copy it. The whole place becomes inhospitable, um, and really unpleasant and destabilized.
Josh Porthouse:and that is what happened in my workplace and that's what happens in a lot of workplaces a lot of it gets accepted, it's commonplace, it's harmless, it's dismissed as not a big deal or or whatever. And, like the majority of my professional career has been in the us marine corps, so in the dod, the department of defense, I don't want to say that's the norm, because that's not the norm right, but there's sort of maybe romanticizing of those behaviors can be put up with it you know it makes you stronger, there's something, what's wrong with you.
Saloni Surah:You're imagining it, just just grow up. Or you know I remember you stronger, there's what's wrong with you. You're imagining it, just just grow up. Or you know I remember being told if you had a family it wouldn't matter so much. Or you know you can't change people and I was like I understand, but you can make them be responsible for the way that they are, their behavior is and other people, because I wasn't the only one. You know there were other people being targeted, there were patients being complaining. You know it wasn't an isolated thing and that's often the case with us, that it's not isolated, there's a pattern.
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Ad:Alrighty folks, if you're looking for more perspective and more podcast, you can check out Transacting Value on reads across america radio. Listen in on iheart radio odyssey and tune in it wasn't an isolated thing.
Saloni Surah:Um and that's often the case with us that it's not isolated.
Josh Porthouse:It there's a pattern and I think that's the difference there, isn't it like it is? It is totally plausible, I think, to have this be sort of your whatever joking might be a trivial word here, but but a joking type atmosphere, like it's just the culture of people being people and whatever degrees of maturity in the workplace. But I think when a lot of other perspectives start to chime in, it's not a single source reporting anymore now there's corroboration, and I think that's where the line starts to push, uh, or the line of effort starts to push a threshold, uh, where you cross it. So you get out of that environment and you start moving through. And you wake up the next day and you're like all right, I've got a new job, a new place in society, a new role, new capacity, I'm, I'm better, or what happened?
Saloni Surah:It took me a long time and I'm not like you know, it's still steps. So I had what was not a great employer, you know. I think if you're in the private sector it's different. But if you work in the public sector and certainly you know the US, is probably different. But you know the uk and ireland, the health services, uh, you know, inbred in a lot of places, inefficient, um, wasting money and they don't want to deal with stuff and there is a culture of bullying in a lot of workplaces so they don't deal with it. So there was secondary bullying.
Saloni Surah:I had ptsd and didn't know and clearly in hindsight I did um, it's obvious's obvious, but nobody mentioned it. So it took me until my first child was born to get it diagnosed, when I became incredibly unwell and I actually moved country when I was seven months pregnant because I wasn't safe. And I look at it now going clearly I have PTSD, but the fact that nobody said it and I was seeing a psychiatrist and maternity hospitals and stuff is a bit shocking. So when my eldest was probably six months old, I finally got it diagnosed. It took me another few months to get it treated and that really transformed my life. That treatment was called EMDR therapy and that's a kind of evidence-based tool for PTSD.
Saloni Surah:And from then I really started to recover because up until that point I was in fight or flight. I was scared of everything, everything was going to go wrong. I just, you know, exhausted, you know wanted, you know wanted to be a mom. For a long time thought this was going to be my big break. I was having much longer for a child, I'd got married, but you know my mindset I was still living in fight or flight, like I was being stalked and bullied, um. So that therapy gave me my life back, um, and I started to parent and feel better and put weight on and live again. Um had another child and then started to pick up my book. So I've been writing for 13 years, um, fiction books and you know, because I've been so well, just hadn't been able to. So picked up my books and when my second child was fairly young, I self-published my first book, which is a girl detective book, a funny sassy book.
Saloni Surah:I'm going to show it very quickly. I'm really proud of it. But a funny sassy book, um, flora Investigates the Case of the Missing Gold Eggs and it's really about a girl, you know. So I wanted an inspiring role model, healthy female role model, but it was. You know. It's a girl who wants to be a detective, who wanted to hit the big time, wasn't getting employed. So she set up her own agency and found her first case a gold-eyed laying chicken had gone missing and, you know, solved it and flew on a boat and met a lot of cats and met a scary hunter, um. And then I picked up my coaching again as well and I retrained. So I went on and did my emdr therapy training, um, and that is eye movement reprocessing and desensitization therapy and it's one of the evidence-based therapies for PTSD.
Josh Porthouse:Can you walk me through what that means, because I'm picturing, follow my finger and look at it. Yeah, but what is okay? So, as accurate as that might be, what is the correlation to that and any sort of post-traumatic stress?
Saloni Surah:yeah. So when you have PTSD or trauma, the memories get stuck in the wrong part of the brain, they get put in the wrong place and you end up reliving them and the you know. So that's what I was doing. I was walking around, feeling scared the whole time, feeling like I was going to be attacked, feeling like life wasn't safe, people, people weren't listening to me and, and you know, I ended up with what was a terrible birth of my child. So that you know, it's really quite incredible. It is literally like you think about the worst of the worst.
Saloni Surah:Obviously you work with a therapist, you work through it, and it is following eye movements, um, fingers or it's, you know, um using hands. It uses bilateral brain stimulation to reprocess those memories and to desensitize the somatic symptomology, and it usually takes a few sessions to work, but it is. You know, it was incredible in my, in my case, like I went from being seven and a half stone looking at my, my child crying, wanting to be dead, um, feeling terrible because I desperately I love them, I wanted to be there, but I just was so traumatized.
Josh Porthouse:Which is detached.
Saloni Surah:Yeah, just, you know, I mean I, I, yes, probably I was so traumatized that was also a traumatic birth because of the PTSD and that that I, yeah, wasn't as emotional and aware present as I would have liked to have been and, um, you know, I put weight on, I start to make plans for the future. The fact that I published a book and that I'm talking to you today is testament to that, because I wouldn't have been able to do that because I was so scared after being stalked and bullied. So, you know, I've been on social media. I do interviews, I share, I post, I talk about my books, I talk about my coaching, I talk about what's happened. I couldn't have done that before because I felt ashamed, like I had done something wrong, like it was my fault and I was still reliving it. So that helped me to reprocess that and go oh my goodness, a really terrible thing happened.
Saloni Surah:But I'm not living anymore. It was terrible. I can talk about it. I can talk and not cry and not break down. I mean I had a blue dress that I wore to that mediation and I couldn't look at it for years. It just triggered me. Do you know what I I mean? Just looking at that blue dress that I'd worn to the mediation, where I'd been so viciously attacked, it was just so visceral that I I couldn't look at it. I've worn it, I wear it now.
Josh Porthouse:I look at it and I'm like, okay, you know, it's just a blue dress again when I ask you, uh, a question about I, I guess maybe ego, uh, and this is coming from a place of curiosity, not judgment. Okay, I'm not trying to antagonize the situation, but, um, but I'm curious. See, in my experience and in others that I've talked to, the defense or maybe counterpoint has been it's not bullying, like you mentioned, you just got to get tougher, develop a thicker skin, but then me being offended is a me problem, right, which is then more egotistical, I think, than not psychologically speaking. And so do you think bullying in general is obviously there's thresholds here, right, but do you think bullying in general is more of a psychological issue due to ego and pride, and then, once it becomes physical, it crosses the line, or humiliating it crosses the line, but initially do you think it's rooted in ego, that maybe that is something we can work through before it gets to that point?
Saloni Surah:I think I mean it. Why do people bully? Usually because they don't feel good about themselves. I mean, let's be honest, so let's. I mean I've done a lot of thinking and a lot of work on this. You know, I also did a uh training on evolutionary meditation, which is like a voice dialogue tapping thing. But you know, if you stand back, why do people bully? It's usually because they don't feel good about themselves and because they've been bullied or they feel so terrible or they're jealous of somebody, so they do their best to make the that person feel bad. You know that that's the crux of it. Or they have behavioral issues or personality issues.
Saloni Surah:Um, and I know, certainly in this case there was a lot of stuff being taken out on many of us by the individual who had maybe anger issues, rage issues, behavioral issues. You know it'd been enabled and facilitated. And so I think you know, at multiple points I said, you know individuals need psychological support. We can get people in, we can turn this around. So I'm not somebody who goes right, there's a problem. You're us, you're all not very good. I'm leaving.
Saloni Surah:I didn't want to do that, I didn't want to not work, and when I went off I said send me anywhere. I've taught, taught in the medical schools, I've worked in other hospitals. I've been at which clinic? I just cannot be here, and at that point I had tried to get people in, external people, in psychologists, in. They didn't want to do that. That could have totally changed the face of this, you know, and even though you can't change people, you can make them understand that their behavior is not acceptable. But I think in the vast majority of cases it's people who don't feel good about themselves so probably ego problem who feel insecure. You may feel threatened, um, and it manifests, as you know, being a bully when really they feel small and scared, but they're masking or hiding it, um, in this way I think it's often, always or often quitting the act of bullying or the verbal communication of bullying, where that results in what we're defining as bullying.
Josh Porthouse:Do you think it's always a witting endeavor, like a conscious driven effort, or is it just more of like a group think everybody's laughing, thinks it's funny, I'm going to do it.
Saloni Surah:So I think there's an element of both. So I think, certainly for the individual, in my case, I think that the individual that was doing it, it was probably partly conscious, because, you know, if we stand back, I think for a lot of bullies they're not feeling great and they want to feel better, and taking someone down is a great way to do that, and then it becomes a group thing where you know everyone else is doing it, so I'll do it. That was my.
Josh Porthouse:I don't know if I can talk about talk about as my experience, but that was my experience of it. Well, yeah, sure, sure, and I guess that's an important point to clarify too, that we're not trying to blanket all aspects or all scenarios that could be involved in bullying, just these two that we're describing right now. You know yours and maybe mine, but so if that's the case, then how do we combat that degree of insecurity or maybe a lack of self-awareness for people like them or people that maybe fall in this category as bullies? And then, because oftentimes that can just antagonize the problem, yeah, so what's the balance?
Saloni Surah:So you know, I think a lot of it does come from childhood or younger. Um, in my case, you know I had said so. What can you do in a workplace? It certainly what happened wasn't great and had they have done some of the stuff I'd suggested, it might not have got to that extreme level. Um, you know, I suggested let's get psychologists in. People can be supported.
Saloni Surah:You know, for anger management, that kind of stuff needs to be done and that can be done. You know the whole workplace is starting to turn. Um, you know, let's try and nip this in the bud and turn this around, because that's what you want. Ultimately. You don't want workplaces to be like that because you know people are unhappy people unhappy or traumatized or, you know, dreading going into work, they're not going to perform and presumably nobody wants a workplace like that and then they go home and affect their work lives too, you know. And then you know if you're traumatized as a parent, then it's hard not to take that home and pass that on to your child as well. Do you know what I mean?
Saloni Surah:well, yeah, absolutely so you know, I saw that so much with sexual trauma, um, how that passed down onto children and the impacts of that. Um, you know, I think a lot of it probably comes from childhood and not feeling good enough. Um, you know, and some of it is personality disorders. So you're not going to be able to change that. Um, but you know, I think, even if that is the case, just further victimizing the victim or re-bullying them isn't really the way to solve these issues and all it does is it forces good people out. I think.
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Saloni Surah:Further victimizing the victim or re-bullying them isn't really the way to solve these issues, and all it does is it forces good people out. I think you know.
Josh Porthouse:Yeah, sure, and I think a lot of times specific to being in a workplace or a corporate environment. It's systemic, it's not an individual person more often than not. Right, occasionally you get a bad hire or whatever, but yeah, that kind of toxic environment happens. So then, conversely, how do we foster this atmosphere of resilience and actual training or human intelligence or personal development to combat against this? Because, at least in my opinion, the only way you can do that is with some degree of exposure. Otherwise there's no basis to qualify anything.
Saloni Surah:It's a really good question and I think it goes back to, you know, the culture and the workplaces. And then you know, I think it's recognizing I'm out of my depth here. I don't know what to do. So if that person who had done the mediation with me had gone I'm totally out of that depth, I shouldn't be doing this then a lot of things would have been averted. And then you know, people have gone. I just don't know what to do. Let's get people in. So I think if it's gone to that point you really don't know, put your hands up and say I don't know, and get people who do know it.
Saloni Surah:And some people sometimes it's psychological support, sometimes it's training, sometimes it's come on, guys, this has got out of hand. There's somebody hurt here, not brushing it under the carpet, because people get busy and it's my job and I have a career and money and obviously I understand all of that. But when people are getting hurt and it's being repeated because you know I wasn't the only one and I'm pretty sure this has been repeated that's where you've got these patterns of repeating this and where it gets more and more dangerous because you know people have got away with it for so long. So you know well what can I get away with this time, or it just gets out of hand.
Josh Porthouse:Yeah, it definitely can. It's obviously the strength in numbers or or the degree of magnetism around the behavior accumulates over time. So there's also this stigma, though and again, this is not specific to any particular workplace but there's also this stigma that if I bring this up, it's only going to get worse for me before it gets better for everybody else, and in some cases that's true, but how do we make that either more manageable and palatable for whoever these individuals are that feel the need to bring this up, or, systemically, in any particular industry, address it so that that's not as much a concern?
Saloni Surah:and that's a really good question. I don't think I have the full answer for that. I mean, I think it is about having, you know, leaders or people in those higher positions that have emotional intelligence or at least are open to say look, I'm out of my um depth here. You know, I was like that as a doctor if I didn't know something, I have no ego about going, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm going to ask somebody else for advice or, you know, run up against people. Do you know what I mean?
Saloni Surah:I don't, I don't think it's about knowing all the answers, but I think it's about knowing where the limitations are and looking at those cultures and systems. And that takes time, unfortunately, but unfortunately. But I'm sure there's, you know, plenty of workplaces that are doing it. I mean, like I went to this talk from, like I say, the governor who was running Mount Droid Prison, which is one of the toughest prisons in Dublin, and he was talking about workplaces. So if he's talking about it and bullying workplaces, then you know there are people doing it in really tough environments. So it is possible.
Josh Porthouse:Well, that's an important distinction too. You were at a prison, so when we say workplace, this isn't like a team of accountants.
Saloni Surah:You know, the atmosphere and the tolerance is still, I think, a bit higher than a societal baseline already so I mean you know, that was actually a hospital, so I did I mean, I sometimes did the prison clinic, but that was in the hospital where I was and and, unfortunately, a lot of hospitals. You know, um, I don't know whether you read the book adam k, this is gonna hurt. You know he talks about that and has those two books about how the medical system and training and the health service is often quite bullying environment and you know it's, it's part of it learning by humiliation.
Josh Porthouse:Um, it's kind of set up in that way is that a gender specific thing and, and more just, sexist? Or is it based on seniority and education level?
Saloni Surah:and you're the new guy, I'm the senior student it's a bit of seniority, it's just um hierarchical, it's just, unfortunately, that's the way it is, um which you know. That's it. The learning sometimes is about kind of humiliation you've got it wrong and also, I suppose, probably like the military, it's a high pressure, high stress environment. People are sick, you know um, yeah, people are sick.
Saloni Surah:You're doing nights, you're doing unsocial hours there's a lot of sacrifice there, um, and again, I don't really know how that changes. I I personally having access to health care more the last few years, I've have found it a lot more unpalatable than I expected, um, with the way that I've been spoken to and treated um and family members, and certainly it's not a way I would have spoken to my patients, you know, um. You know, because I think everyone deserves to be spoken to, no matter where they come from and I'm very passionate about that after the medical credit no matter where they've come from, what they've done with a bit of kindness and dignity. You know, unfortunately I think that's got worse in the health care but, um, in systems overall.
Josh Porthouse:Um, you know, hopefully it's a new way of doing business where we actually care for each other and and recognize that being nice in the workplace and treating employees well gets more out of them, which is, you know, better for everyone yeah, it's simple as that it really is and, and you're not far off the mark I can't speak to, you know, the british military, for example, or the royal marines even, but at least in the us, and only in my experience in the us marine corps, that that has been a pretty common vein where the degree of training from any individual in a more senior position, based on time or, you know, by virtue of position and meritocracy, generally comes from what I've considered now more consistently as an inadequate leadership style, but also a relatively discouraged ability or style of communication, because then it just, it is effective and it does get people's behaviors to change, which is the goal. And in a high-stress occupational environment medicine, military, whichever there has to be a certain degree of detachment, I think, to be able to function in a high stress environment so you're not as concerned with your own wellbeing, for example, you're more focused on somebody else's Well. That requires some detachment and I think in that training pipeline what tends to happen then is a relative degree of embarrassment along the way or whatever. I think the threshold and I can't speak to medicine as an industry, but in the Department of Defense at least I think the threshold is building it back, the camaraderie around. Yes, everybody went through it, but it's not sustainable in that environment. What it becomes then now is a point of leverage as a common point of reference to say that's what it feels like Now, you know. So here's how we build back, encourage some degree of discipline or camaraderie or whatever needs to happen as a result.
Josh Porthouse:In a sort of more individualistic sense, I think, when we start to question our positions, like you mentioned in yours, it's difficult to sustain that kind of growth in any environment, even if it's encouraged to build back and develop resiliency or discipline or whatever, and so my working theory is that it gets rooted in a value system, I think, and that gives us something we can latch onto, because it's an internally driven metric that isn't required to be validated by somebody else's opinions, and so this is a segment of the show called developing character. D D D, developing character. Now it's two questions, and for clarity and full disclosure, as vulnerable as you prefer your answers to be, is totally cool, but it's rooted in two time periods, because I think some of this is nurture and I think some of this is nature, and so my questions are what were some of your values growing up or that you remember being exposed to as a child and then now being older in life. What are some of your values now?
Saloni Surah:You know it's a very funny one. One of my colleagues would say, saloni, you've always got to do the right thing. It just crucifies you in justice. And so I am somebody who is going to speak out and say, no, this is making me uncomfortable, or no, I don't like where that person's being spoken to. Or you know, I've had arguments with adopters. When they've gone, you're patients and I'm like what do you mean? My patients? You know they may have HIV patients. And I'm like what do you mean? My patients, you know they may have HIV. They may be a prisoner. They're still entitled to care and still entitled to be spoken to.
Saloni Surah:Okay, but if that you know, if they're being rude or aggressive or using, then they also need to know that's not unacceptable, not acceptable. Um, so I suppose those are my values. Um, I think part of its nature and nurture. So some of that I was inbred with, but I've already already touched on. You know, I come from a family where there is inherent sexism and there's a lot of stuff we don't talk about. And again, I won't do that. So you know I'm not going to sit there and pretend there's not domestic violence going on there. I'm not going to pretend that I'm okay with it. Do you know what I mean? Even if that's the way it is? So I think you're right. I think it's a bit of both.
Josh Porthouse:So what do you think is an effective mechanism or option to maybe, at a baseline level, develop that degree of awareness and realize you do have some control over your perspective and your outlook and your responses and then, secondarily, do something about it? In the workplace or as an individual well in an individual in a workplace, but as an individualized style of control or a control point again.
Saloni Surah:I think it partly does go back to the nature nurture and it you know if we're talking from a coaching point of view is at what point you hit that pain point and go. I'm not putting up with this anymore and you're either forced to do something or, um, you know you make that decision and I'll be brutally honest to my situation. I was kind of forced because I became so unwell. I just couldn't physically do it anymore. I think, again, it goes back to values and who you are. So through all of this you know all the stuff that happened to me I kept on going. There must be better. You know I'm not going back and it would have been easier to have gone back to my workplace. I would be earning far more money, life would be a lot easier. But I was just like there's no way I can return to a workplace, that this has happened, where people have facilitated it, who I trusted, where people have hurt me, where they made accusations about me. I just can't sit and look at you.
Saloni Surah:I have a deep forgiveness practice. I have a deep spiritual practice and I've done a lot of forgiveness at multiple points where I've literally worked through everyone in my life and I can forgive, but I can't forget. I can't sit here across the table from you planning services, um, and doing the change that you wanted me to do, but you didn't support me in. Do you know what I mean? Um, you know. So part of it is I'm a square in a circle hole because I see things in different ways and I, you know, try to bring in change and people don't like that. Part of it's like my value system is saying I'm just not going to force myself back into somewhere where it's really unpleasant for me All right, folks sit tight and we'll be right back on Transacting Value.
Josh Porthouse:Are you stuck in cycles of unhealthy relationships, wondering if you're the problem or if they are? On this episode of Transacting Value, licensed professional counselor and relationship coach, Dana Nygaard shares her shocking journey from abuse, trauma and two battles with self-worth, healing and love. What's most jarring, she didn't even recognize the abuse while it was happening, until her own clients started showing her the mirror. Through raw honesty and grace, Dana reveals how she reprogrammed her identity over 90 days, moving from insecure to secure attachment, now helping women across the country find clarity through her book Be Smart, Date Smart.
Saloni Surah:If you've ever questioned your value after being torn down, this episode will show you how to reclaim it part of it's like my value system is saying I'm just not going to force myself back into somewhere where it's really unpleasant for me in standing on what it is, the uh, you know view as our own worth or or our own value, for example, in a particular environment, it's a lot easier than to identify.
Josh Porthouse:I don't fit here the square in the round hole, for example, yeah, but in doing that, I think we still individually owe it to ourselves to be able to reconcile that, like you said, I could be making more money, I could be doing other things like these potential, uh, maybe other success metrics now change. So how do you make peace with that degree of acceptance?
Saloni Surah:it's been a long road. You, I'll be honest, I did a Facebook post about grief being a dirty word and how it was like a part of me had died. I mean for me probably, like you, I started medicine when I was like 16, 15. All the stuff to get in the training, my friends, sacrifices, getting and getting married older, having children at a later age, and how I lost it all and it, you know, it is like a part of me died and I didn't know who I was and it. There's been an awful lot of grief, of letting go, of shedding of who am I, because my entire identity was tied up in that. You know part of that was, you know, like you say, a job that, like medicine, military, are all consuming. Part of that was kind of I was expected of me and you know, if I'd had a different upbringing I might have gone being more creative at an earlier age, but that wouldn't have been okay.
Saloni Surah:Um, you know it's not been the easiest thing in the world. You know I've done lot. I do a lot of self-development and I'm working for it. You know I did a lot of EMDR. I've done a lot of coaching and work on myself. I write, which is really healing. And you know I talk because I think it's important to talk about these things, and I'm not the only one going through this. There's plenty of other people out there who are going through this. Stories may be different, um, but you know grief comes in different ways, um, you know, and asking for help and support, but you know, it's not been the easiest thing and I'm going to be honest about that. My life would be much easier. I'd be in a much bigger house, um, things would be different. It's like I've worked to get to this point and I'm starting again. You know, uh, you know, with my writing and coaching and, um, you know it's great, but I not where I thought I would be, and you know that's that's.
Josh Porthouse:That's sort of the practical point about it too, isn't it? I mean professionally, maybe starting over maybe a new industry relatively to, relative to were, but personally you're on a totally different level now. You know what I mean, and all of the strength and acceptance and ownership that you built along the way, in spite of the vulnerability, and then the authenticity now that you bring into your practice and just it sounds like, into your daily life as a result totally changes, I think, the entire equation. I mean, it's not, it's not starting back from zero. You know, it's like a some sort of linear periodization where all you've really done is deloaded, you haven't reset, and I think that's a super important distinction yeah, thank you.
Saloni Surah:I mean I, um, you know I wrote this really fun book I have. I've been trying to um my fairy book. I've got a fairy book which is a middle grade book and it was supposed to be a fun fairy book, you know, because fairies are fun. And then I realized I was writing about fairies having their wings clipped and then I was like, oh my god, this is my bullying in here, you know, and forgiveness, and getting wings back. And you know, and I was like, but you know, in some way it happens to us all at some point in life that we get our wings clipped off and by people that we love or we've trusted, and how do we get that back and get our forgiveness back? And I mentioned the Adam Kay book.
Saloni Surah:Um, you know, about five years ago I had started writing this book about medical memoirs and some of the challenges of you know night shifts and you know really basic things about not even being able to go to the toilet and if you're a lady and it's a certain time of the month not having time to take care of things, and I just couldn't write it for a long time.
Saloni Surah:I picked it up again this year and a book on bullying as well. So I think also there's some of that into turning it, into alchemising it, into helping other people. You know that's what I want to do that. So you know I wrote a fun book, but it's a book about a girl who has a dream and who's going for it a bit like me. But I also looked after so many adults who were literate and who's going for it a bit like me. But I also looked after so many adults who were illiterate and who couldn't read or write and you know, when you're doing quality of life questionnaires on them and substance misuse questionnaires on them every six months you get fairly quick at asking them that but who probably grew up in homes where they're working on sheets and needles and probably nobody told them that they were worthy and they could do anything and, um, you know generations of substance abuse.
Josh Porthouse:You know I wanted to inspire kids because not every child has that that's absolutely true, and I think, in that regard, maybe we're both doing the same thing, maybe a different medium, yeah, um, but all things considered, instigating self-worth, and so I guess, for the sake of time, I really have two other questions for you. All of this being said, all of these experiences, what is it actually done for your own sense of self and self-worth now as a result?
Saloni Surah:so the really funny thing is it's an awful lot stronger. I didn't think you know, I you know, and also as a medic, you give, you give, you give. I didn't think deep down, probably, that I was worthy or good enough, despite the success I'd had the phds, the exams all that stuff um, and I, you know, I'm not the only one.
Saloni Surah:There's plenty of people in that position who feel like an imposter. Um, and now I'm like no, I know my worth, I would never go back there. And you know, I reclaimed my power. Um, you know, I live in a very different house. I married somebody who I didn't expect I you know, on the outset I would have gone no to 10 years ago. It was the best thing that happened to me. He made me laugh and you know, he was there for me and I'm honest with him, I probably wouldn't have looked at him 10 years ago, which is you know, I'm being open about this which is really sad, you know, because he was totally there, he made me laugh and I've got two lovely children.
Saloni Surah:You know, I'd like a bit more balance in my life career-wise. Having reached that, to get back there again, um, but I'm also coming out from a different place. My mom now, and before it was all about work. Um, whilst I wanted that, you know, it kind of took over and and I knew when I went back at the top level that I needed to look at that. Um, so, yeah, the irony is it has brought me to that place of self-worth, knowing that I am good enough on my power, and reclaiming that and being like, no, you know, having conversations with people who were part of this and saying that that was not okay and you did hurt me, and I know that some of them have listened to some of the podcasts I've done and gone.
Josh Porthouse:Oh, you know yeah, well, that's what it takes sometimes. Let me, I'm going to share this with you real quick. This took me, oh, 15 years in the marine corps to learn you ready. What do you call a combination of acceptance and balance?
Saloni Surah:I want to say sovereignty. Sovereignty boundaries, like that's something I've been working a lot with is sovereignty being sovereign.
Josh Porthouse:I suppose it could be in a manner of speaking, but harmony is the word that I learned it to be when you know, empowering some degree of character, sovereignty, I think, is the ultimate goal of any growth experience in the human condition. You know, trying to figure out your place and then accepting what you find out is tricky because, like you said, it may not be discovering what you expect it's often not.
Saloni Surah:I mean, you know, and that actually peace and harmony and balance the things that I've really been working on these last three to six months of you know, sovereignty, balance and harmony. You know I am where I am and it's okay, and you know, for here and now, everything is okay.
Josh Porthouse:Well, I'm proud of you. Congratulations.
Saloni Surah:Thank you so much.
Josh Porthouse:Absolutely. I don't think it's a common occurrence, on one hand, to learn that degree of acceptance and, on the other hand, have a total stranger say hey, good job.
Saloni Surah:Thank you. Yeah, no, it's not. I don't get it very often, so thank you.
Josh Porthouse:Yeah, but okay. So my last question. Then you talked about both books. You've talked about other podcasts. So for anybody that wants to read the books, buy the books, become a client, listen to the shows. Where do people go?
Saloni Surah:so my website is salonisuracom. I am redoing the coaching bit but by this time it's out it will be up and ready. Um, I'm on social media salonisura author and at saloni book and flora investigates, which is the only book out at the moment, is available to purchase through amazon. So worldwide as an ebook and Kindle book. She's always looking to fly and find new exciting readers. And, yeah, I'm offering EMDR and I will be combining it with belief coding, which for me, is the next natural step with it. So you know, clearing the trauma and then recoding a new beliefs, um, which I found very powerful and big shifts in my life the last few months, um, and I'm really excited about that.
Josh Porthouse:For me, it feels really wonderful being able to come back and and do that for others after what I've gone through first off, I agree with you and I think that there's a one-way circuit, only one way, between or among cognition, behavior, physical spaces and information, and then it resets on cognition, behavior, physical spaces, information, and it's only one way. That's it. And when you're talking about finding ways to work through or shift a behavior pattern, you have to start with the way people view themselves or view the world, and, and I think that degree of awareness around cognition or that degree of sovereignty that you can help to build is huge, and so I assume it's also digital or distance, not only in person yeah, sorry.
Saloni Surah:Yes, it is digital um, so I come up with people from all over um, you know, with zoom. So that's really exciting for for me to be able to offer that. And you know, I'm looking for people who really want change, because you tend to get change when you're working with me. I'm also somebody who's not going to work with 20 people a day, so you know it's going to be a select number just because of energetics and kids and writing and life.
Josh Porthouse:Well, good. Also, then, learning your boundaries, I think, counts for a lot. Saying that anybody who's new to this show or just watching this conversation for the first time today, depending on the player you're streaming this conversation on click see more. Click show more. And in the drop down description for the conversation, you'll also see links to Saloni's website and then where you can get to Amazon and on social media as well. Saloni, I appreciate your vulnerability and your authenticity and the progress you've made and your willingness to talk about it, um, but also your time, because I know, as of right now, it's pretty late for you. So thanks.
Saloni Surah:Thank you so much, thank you.
Josh Porthouse:Absolutely Now to anybody else and everybody else. Thank you guys for following along with our conversation. I hope you guys got something out of it too. I really enjoyed it and, if you did, you have an option as well. Go to our homepage on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom, and in the top right-hand corner there's a button that says leave a voicemail. Click it. It's two minutes of talk time all to you.
Josh Porthouse:Here's two recommendations what you can do with it. One, let us know what you think of the show, my style, the questions, the insight, whatever you want the topics, any more clarity you might be looking for, or leave a review. Give us some feedback. But secondly, tell Saloni what you think about the topics. Let her know what you think about it. Feedback, like we just discussed, makes the world go round. And let her know, give her resources, give her inspiration, give her things that she can work with her clients on, maybe things that you're doing in your own life, and we can relay that to her as well.
Josh Porthouse:But I think this was such a powerful conversation that needed to happen and unfortunately doesn't happen enough. So I just appreciate the opportunity. So, that said, saloni, thank you again. I appreciate your time, everybody else, our sponsors, my team working on putting this show together. Thank you, guys, and until next time, that was Transacting Value. Thank you to our show partners and folks. Thank you for tuning in and appreciating our value as we all grow through life together, together To check out our other conversations or even to contribute through feedback follows time, money or talent and to let us know what you think of the show.
Josh Porthouse:Please leave a review on our website, transactingvaluepodcastcom. We also stream new episodes every Monday at 9 am Eastern Standard Time through all of your favorite podcasting platforms like Spotify, iheart and TuneIn. You can now hear Transacting Value on Reads Across America Radio. Head to readsacrossamericaorg. Slash transactingvalue to sponsor a reef and remember, honor and teach the value of freedom for future generations. On behalf of our team and our global ambassadors, as you all strive to establish clarity and purpose, ensure social tranquility and secure the blessings of liberty or individual sovereignty of character for yourselves and your posterity, we will continue instigating self-worth and we'll meet you there. Until next time. That was Transacting Value.
