Inside the movie industry - Helen Moss from Paramount Pictures

Helen Moss, senior vice president of international distribution at Paramount Pictures, sheds light on the mechanics of the movie business, from projects getting the green light to deciding how, when and where to release a big-budget film.

Helen also reflects on how her career path has taken her from Cornwall to Los Angeles. As one of the most influential women in global cinema distribution, she is ideally placed to discuss the impact of the Covid pandemic and the AI revolution on the film industry – and how, despite predictions to the contrary, cinema is thriving in the age of streaming.

Transcript

Mark Greaves:

Today I am delighted to be joined by Helen Moss, senior vice president of international distribution at Paramount Pictures. Helen was named in the top three women in global cinema distribution in 2022 and 2023. She grew up in Cornwall, but is speaking to us today from a presumably sunny California where she moved to in 2012.

I'm Mark Greaves from PKF Francis Clark, and I'll be your host. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast to get updates and notifications on when our latest episodes are available.

Hi, Helen, how are you today?

Helen Moss:

Good afternoon, Mark, or should I say good morning, from a very sunny California. It's an absolute pleasure to join you today, and thank you very much for inviting me to your show.

Mark Greaves:

That's all right. We've already established the international credentials on the basis of, it's sometime early in the morning over there, so thanks for getting up early. And it's sometimes later over here.

So, let's start. Many people will be familiar with the name Paramount Pictures and they'll have seen the logo, the stars and the mountains at the start of their movie, but what part does it actually play in the movie process, in the creation and distribution?

Helen Moss:

Well, Paramount Pictures is, as you say, the oldest studio in Hollywood with a very storied history. It's the only studio that still exists in Hollywood itself today. And so, I'll say that upfront, it's a wonderful place to work. But Paramount Global is a huge mega conglomerate with many, many business components to it. And Paramount Pictures is quite frankly a small part of the Paramount family.

There are many, many TV brands, many that you will have heard of, for example, CBS News and CBS Sport, Nickelodeon, BET, MTV. Channel 5 in the UK. Channel 10 in Australia. We have hundreds and hundreds of channels around the globe in over 180 countries. In addition in the US, it's one of the biggest linear TV companies. We have Pluto TV and we also have our streaming tool, Paramount+, which I'm sure you are familiar with. So, it's a huge media business, and Paramount Pictures, as I said, is an important key part and cornerstone of this business, feeding a lot of those downstream channels.

Mark Greaves:

So, what's its role in the movie and producing a movie? Give me an idea of how it actually starts. Where does Paramount Pictures become involved?

Helen Moss:

Well, we can become involved at many different stages of a film. We can buy it ready-made. We can bid for a film that's already made and we can bid for the rights to distribute it around the globe. If we have a script, we can find a director, find a cast, and make it from scratch, and maybe we find a financial partner to come on board with us if we so deem. We might have a completely brand new project that's brought to us. A brand new director, for example, has got a new project and they want to take it to a studio and for them to work with us to release it.

And then there's another angle, which is actually something that's happened post-pandemic, which is really interesting for us. We have our streaming model, Paramount+, and we make movies direct for the streamer. But we've had a couple of interesting scenarios over the last two years. One, which is Smile. You may remember the movie we released in 2022. That movie was made for Paramount+, but when we saw the finished product, Paramount Pictures basically said, "Well, hang on a second. We can do something with this movie. We are going to take it and release it theatrically in cinemas around the globe before it goes to the streamer." So, there's many different ways of which Paramount can actually make films.

But I will say, if I segue here into the green light process, the decision to make a movie is the single most important decision that Paramount or any studio makes. Get it wrong at the green light stage, and it's very hard to repair. Get it right, and you're off to the races. But oftentimes at the green light stage, you don't necessarily have a huge amount of information with which to make that decision, do we make the film or do we not? Sometimes you have a script, oftentimes you don't. Sometimes you have a synopsis. Sometimes you have a director on board. Sometimes you have talent. Oftentimes you may not, and you then need to figure out what talent is required for the type of movie that you're going to make.

So, it's a tricky decision. You also have to understand, and I'll come onto my role later on perhaps, about whether the genre of the movie is something that's actually wanted by consumers in today's world. Are they aware of the product? Is there a market for it? Is there an interest for the movie? And then finally understanding, which again, I'm sure we'll get into later on, is the censorship requirement for the movie. Censorship differs across the globe, and appetites and cultural behaviors are constantly changing. So, we have to be aware of that and factor that into the decision.

Mark Greaves:

Okay. You've raised an awful lot of issues there we can actually chat through, but let's come back to you within that. What does a senior vice president of international distribution actually do?

Helen Moss:

Well, when I find out, I'll let you know. My role is an incredibly wide-ranging role, and that's why I absolutely love it. No two days are the same, and indeed, no two movies are the same. My role is the cornerstone for international distribution. So, it begins at the point of green lighting a movie, as I've just alluded to. My role is to determine what can a film deliver in terms of box office internationally. We release in 75, 80 countries when we put films into market. So, it's a very broad area that I cover.

I don't manage the US and I don't manage Canada, but any other markets are part of the international remit. So, once a film is green lit, I then have to work with all the territories that I manage, to determine the optimal way of getting the film into market. I.e., when do we want to release it? How do we want to release it? Are the talent known in that market? Do we want to actually take the talent on tour, for example? Is there risk in putting a film into a territory? Is there a risk that the film will be banned because of the censor issue? All of those elements I have to consider from the stage of green light right through to as the film is being made, and we start to see early cuts of the movie, right through to releasing the movie. And then the best part of my role is when we open a film and I get to see the results and report those results to filmmakers and press and hopefully share the great news.

Mark Greaves:

And also attend premieres on a global basis.

Helen Moss:

Oh, yes, occasionally. I won't deny.

Mark Greaves:

To a certain extent, let's step back. How does a farmer's daughter from Cornwall, who was an active member of the Young Farmer's Association, how do you go from that to sitting in California in charge of an international role like that?

Helen Moss:

Well, I have been incredibly lucky. I will say it wasn't a strategic plan of mine. In my teenage years, I wasn't one of those lucky people that always knew what they wanted to do. I didn't really have a clue. And I think that's actually been quite helpful on the journey that I've taken. I knew I was always interested in numbers and data, and I have taken a rather unusual journey to get here to Hollywood. I've worked in six different industries predominantly as an accountant originally, and then shifting into data analytics and then into film planning and into my distribution role now.

So, I have come on a very long and windy journey, but I think the wonderful thing along the way is that you bring the skills from each of those experiences with you, and each of those skills then matter in today's world. So you say, for example, my farming background. You will find this crazy that I compare the two. Farming is not that different to making movies. Now I can tell you're thinking, "Where is she going with this?" But I'm not kidding. If you think about a farmer's role, you till a crop or you breed animals and it's a two or three or maybe a one-year process, but it's a lengthy process. And along the way, there are lots of things that can impact the results. Health, weather, the market, there are lots of external factors that will impact the result, and there's nothing that a farmer can necessarily do to mitigate some of those risks.

And similarly with film, a lot of our films can take one or two or three or even five years from the initial idea to actually releasing the film. So, it's understanding ahead of time what is it you're trying to make and what is it the audience wants? But even you can have the most incredible movie and you can deliver it and then the moment you deliver it, there is a global issue, a national tragedy or something in a particular market. Even the weather has a huge impact of when people go and see movies.

So, there is a correlation between my grassroots, but similarly, if I can segue to another industry that I thoroughly enjoy, I used to work in the travel industry. And the travel industry is an industry that has had experience and exposure to many, many issues certainly over the last, well, many decades. I used to work for InterContinental Hotels and latterly, Expedia. And the issues that that industry faced included the impact of events like 9/11, the impact of Skype and video conferencing, the impact of Airbnb, the impact of the pandemic and many other issues in between.

And that industry has been kicked and kicked and kicked and continues to be resilient and robust. And whenever it's kicked, it finds a new avenue to grow and be a strong industry again. And I look at the movie industry, and to be honest, the movie industry has been told it's the end of the movie world. We've been hearing that since television, black and white television to color, and then to video and then to DVD, and then to more recently to streaming. And constantly they're saying, "Oh, this is the end. Nobody's going to see movies anymore." And it's about that resilience and about finding that new way of appealing to audiences that I think those parallels I can bring from my previous roles into my role today.

Mark Greaves:

You mentioned about the cinema industry going through peaks and troughs and being written off on a regular basis. How do you keep that resilience going? How do you get a culture in the workforce of that resilience, given there'll be lots of press being, "Oh, cinema audiences are down, streaming is now here to stay."? How do you cope with that internally to keep a team going?

Helen Moss:

Well, most of the people here are film lovers. Many people knew exactly what they wanted to do from a young age. They grew up watching movies, going to drive-ins, having a passion. Particularly here in Los Angeles, a lot of people actually have family members that they have direct exposure to. So, it's an ingrained love and passion for the business. So, I don't feel I ever have to work that hard to try and bolster that belief in the business.

The pandemic certainly challenged how audience viewed movies. And people were at home, they didn't have any other choice, but it's no different than how we weren't able to go to restaurants and bars during the pandemic. But as soon as that was lifted and we were able to go out, we've all chosen to go back out again. And it's the same with movies, the business is a 42-and-a-half billion dollar business in 2019. It was a record-breaking year globally, absolutely massive. And obviously the years in between have been tough, but last year the business, even with the strike in the latter part of the year, came in just 20% below those lofty results of 2019. Now, we've got a way to go to get there, but sure, there is a business there, and audiences are proving that when you give them the right films and the right opportunities, they will return to the theaters.

Mark Greaves:

We've spoken before about the end of that pandemic and there's lots in the press about cinema being saved by the Top Gun movie, which you had to deal with, and you had to continually delay release and adapt release as it kept going forward. But you also took the decision not to actually release it to streaming, to actually keep it within the cinema. How did you actually cope with those pressures?

Helen Moss:

Well, first and foremost, there was never a conversation to put Top Gun: Maverick out through a streaming model, ever. That would've been a travesty, and it was never a conversation at the studio to do that. But having said that, I am not sure if I have ever re-dated a movie so many times, and that was a challenge.

We didn't know what we were doing. We weren't anybody in that crazy time. And so, we moved the film initially from its summer release to a Christmas release, which then we soon realized that that wasn't going to work. And ultimately you had to make the decision, if you want to get audiences to come to the movie, you've got to wait until you can get them all to come to the movies. And so, we did have to delay several more times, but I actually think it was, certainly given our results, it was an incredible result.

Mark Greaves:

Okay. Talked earlier about a crossover between the hotel and leisure and cinema and that sort of experience. Another one of those is your exposure to critic sites, ratings aggregators, such as, and I can ask you to pronounce it in a minute, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, that type of stuff.

How do you cope with that and the vagaries of it with the difference between critic schools with what audience likes, what critics like, et cetera? How do you cope with such a cold assessment, an independent assessment being made?

Helen Moss:

Rotten Tomatoes, can I say that? I still struggle with that.

I've lived in this country for 12 years now and I've accommodated lots of things like basil and oregano and aluminum, but Rotten Tomatoes still gives me pause. Having said that, it is a very well respected review site in the industry particularly, and a lot of the critic reviews all have to be regulated and are known and are registered. So I don't necessarily see that that site or similar sites like that are particularly a problem.

You're going to get different views from critics often, from consumers, and that's okay. They're measuring different things and different perceptions. And often you might get a family movie for example, where critics are pretty harsh on the movie and yet the children that go and see it thoroughly enjoy it and see a different movie. So, you can't get too concerned about it. But ultimately, it's about the people that actually pay to go and see the movies in theaters, where I will measure my success levels.

Mark Greaves:

Is that going to get more difficult going forward? We've obviously got AI potentially giving rogue players, shall we say, the ability to bombard sites with good or bad reviews or something like that. Is AI going to make any difference going forward?

Helen Moss:

The AI revolution is happening everywhere, and I think few of us really know exactly how it's going to impact. We know it's going to have a huge impact on our lives, but quite how at this stage, it's hard to call. But yes, those AI reviews are tricky and we're going to have to figure out how to navigate that. But it's not dissimilar, again, going back to the travel industry, you look at a lot of travel reviews, they face the same concerns as to whether those reviews are true and valid or whether they are artificial. But at this stage, I don't see it as a major concern at this stage.

Mark Greaves:

I think it's going to be one of those that a lot of industries, certainly as we all go more online, are just going to have to get around to actually dealing with. We talked earlier-

Helen Moss:

Sorry to cut you in there, Mark. Fake news is finding that issue front and center right now. A lot of the traditional news channels would investigate a news article, understand the whole breadth of what's going on before they reported. Way back when there would be, if you think about the news from 20 years ago, you'd have the nine o'clock news, the midday news, the six o'clock news or whatever. And they'd have time to research and make sure they really understood what has happened.

Now it's about getting that news out there immediately as it's happening, and really regardless of whether it's wholly truthful or not. The truth can follow. So, I think those news outlets are facing a far more bigger problem right now than my world.

Mark Greaves:

Well, I know the current talk of conversations, there's elections both in the US and in the UK and around the world over the next 12 months, and AI and deepfakes are a real concern on that side.

Okay. Step back. Earlier you were talking about a single product, et cetera. And there's a couple of features that come out of that. How do you tailor that where you've got different generations wanting different things? Do you tailor specific movies for specific generations? Or, how do you make a wide appealing movie? How do you promote that movie?

Helen Moss:

Well, first of all, a movie studio has to make a broad slate of movies in a given year. You cannot make the same genre of movies because you cannot find a slot necessarily to release them all in a year. So typically, a studio will want to have a broad range of movies, and that will include action and horror and drama and music or family entertainment, animation, whatever builds that slate. But within that, you will typically have your tent pole blockbuster films, your guaranteed winners, the ones that you know are tried and tested.

Typically, then you have what we call the middle range movies that may be their second incarnation, maybe just a single movie, a new property, but of a significant size. And then you have the lower tier, which are the movies which are new, untested, perhaps higher risk, which may have a huge potential to break out. And I'm thinking about a movie we put out A Quiet Place. You may remember the John Krasinski movie, Emily Blunt. When we put out A Quiet Place into the marketplace, it's never been done before. You've never been to a movie theater and sat for 20 minutes in total silence. And that was an incredible thing to do, but it was a very risky movie. And when we saw it, we knew we had something special.

So, a studio has to basically make a decision to make movies for someone or make movies for everyone. And there is room for both. Going back to my comment about green light, it's really important to understand who your audience is upfront, because that will determine typically the production size and scale and scope of the movie, but also how you're going to market the movie. If you have a large animation movie, that you basically want to attract all four quadrants, then you need to make sure for ... If you think about a movie like Shrek back in the day or Toy Story, you want that elevated humor that adults enjoy as much as children.

But correspondingly, you're talking about the Gen X or millennials or younger groups, they also need to be served. And one particular area that's grown rapidly in recent years is the horror genre. 10 or 15 years ago, horror was a little tricky and had a small niche audience, but then you have movies like It and Get Out and A Quiet Place and The Conjuring and Halloween, and suddenly horror became a very interesting genre to teenage and 20-somethings, particularly young females. I don't know why, but they really relished those movies and now we've seen a lot of elevated horror, there's a lot more horror in the marketplace.

And so, we're adapting. And hence, I mentioned the film Smile that we released to great success in 2022, and now we're making a sequel for October 2024, for this year. So, it's about finding the movies that you need for the audience. But if I can just segue to the other end of the scale. In November this year, we are releasing Gladiator. Now, Gladiator was one of the most beloved movies of all time. It's an old audience movie, great scale, Ridley Scott directing, an incredible epic movie. And we've got many other films in our slate in between, but you can see where you have to have something for a specific audience, the horror genre, perfect example, and then the wider audience, something like Gladiator.

Mark Greaves:

Horror and female audience, that's interesting at that stage. But stay on that topic because obviously you've then got your international side of things. And how do you cope with different countries, cultures and all that type of stuff where you've got, again, we come back to that sort of single product thing, how do you cope with that internationally?

Helen Moss:

It's very tricky. I can revert back to my comment about green light. When we prepare a green light, my role is to ascertain what is the box office potential internationally. Now, as I said, if I have a script or it's a book or something that I can cling to and understand, what is the sentiment, what is the message? Is it known IP? Is there some awareness of the story that actually might be sticky in those markets? Is it an adaptation of something? Is there a way that I can understand by market how that film is going to be received?

And it's not just the story. I mentioned earlier on about are talent known in that market? Are talent liked in the market? And then the genre, certain genres play much better. For example, in Mexico, religious horror is always very successful. In Latin America in general, they love high octane action movies think Fast and Furious. But then you think of something like the Bond movies or Mission Impossible. In Europe, they absolutely love those thought-provoking, again, high action, but high storied movies. And then if you think about Asia, the Transformers franchise is a perfect example. They love that superhero, the comic book, and again, high action, visual, impressive, huge type of blockbuster movies.

But if you then come down to another level, you think of something like dramas, it's really hard to understand where dramas are going to work. So, it's easier to think about a Transformers or a Mission Impossible. But when you have a film, for example, we released Killers of the Flower Moon, the very successful book, last fall, last November. That is an incredible book based on an American story, but for me to figure out where is that going to work internationally, is really tricky. You know you've potentially got an awards contender. You know you've got Martin Scorsese directing the movie. You know you've got Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro. You've got a huge cast. So, that should lend itself to perform successfully internationally, but you never know.

Similarly, we might undertake a sports movie in the US. Sports, something like baseball or basketball, those movies do not travel well internationally. So, every time I have to consider what will work or what won't work. But there are always certain markets which are stronger and which are weaker. And sometimes you can look at record sales to guide you, other times I have to rely on our markets to give me that local intel to really understand whether those films are going to be successful in market. But if I'm not sure, then I have to be mindful as to what box office expectation I'm going to attribute for each country, that I'm going to assume or release. Or indeed, when I get to the point of release, I may defer the release until a later date, so that I can be certain that the film has an opportunity, I can prove it elsewhere before I actually release in all markets.

Mark Greaves:

That sounds a really complex balancing act, especially you refer to the green light where you are still in a really unknown territory, especially if you're just looking potentially just at a story without a script. That requires extreme confidence in the senior team amongst themselves at that stage?

Helen Moss:

It does require confidence. And I'm going to put my accountancy hat on again, and this is where my accountancy role has actually been such an important part of my whole career, because I will put those box office numbers together by market, understand the risk. So, once I understand what a movie is going to deliver internationally, I will work with my domestic counterparts to see what the US business will deliver. And then a P&L, quite frankly, is put together with what else that film will deliver from the downstream business, from home entertainment and all the other businesses that come after a cinematic theatrical release.

So, you look at the numbers, first of all, and identify what is the risk financially, and then you make a decision. In some cases we may say, "No, let's pass on it completely or make it for a lesser budget and go straight to the streaming platform." In other cases, it may be that you actually feel there's a gut instinct, this is a movie we want to make and we're prepared to lean in and take the risk. In some cases, it may be that you are working with talent and a director and they really feel strongly about this project and you want to keep them within the studio. So, you want to work with them and make the movie that they want to make, so that there's future movies that they will bring to the studio later down the line.

So, there's no perfect decision that you can take at green light, but as I said at the very beginning, it is the most important one. Get it right, it's brilliant. Get it wrong, it's really hard. But that doesn't guarantee at the beginning because a film can look very different on the page to when you see the first cut of it. And there may be things that have changed, a lot of things. Very rare does a movie look identical when it's filmed as to what was on the page. Things change. And we need to be able to accommodate those and make sure that we can still deliver the numbers that we have committed to.

Mark Greaves:

I suppose the best comparison that I can actually think of is the oil and gas industry. Everything you described there is about they don't know, you just don't have that information. It's best guess, it's best estimate. And yes, you can put some numbers down, but they're always just going to be best guess.

Although, there is a consistent theme within this, you'll actually see our previous guests have shared quite often a finance background, including Mitch Tonks, the restaurateur who started as an accountant before working out he was better in the kitchen at that particular moment.

I referred to you earlier as being named in the top three women in global cinema distribution in '22 and '23, and you're also a mentor in the Women's Cinema Leadership Programme. How did you actually become involved in that?

Helen Moss:

Well, first of all, I was thrilled to be named in that list, a superb list of very illustrious successful women in the industry. And so, it was an honor as a result of that to be asked to mentor. But I have been mentoring folks for a long time, both internally here at Paramount, we have a very robust mentoring scheme, which I've participated in every year since I've been here. But in addition, I do occasionally speak at the University of Southern California. And as a result, I have mentored a few students from the university there.

I do think it's really important to give back. I look at my career and it has been a rather crazy fragmented journey, but I realized perhaps where I needed mentorship and where I perhaps would've benefited from it. And so, I think now it's important to try and impart some of those learnings on a new generation and help people understand how they can grow in this career, particularly in distribution. Nobody even knows that there is such a thing as international theatrical distribution. Most people think of marketing or just being behind the camera or in front of the camera when you talk about movie making, but distribution is a fundamental component of getting the movie out into the market. And as I said, it's unknown.

But one of the things I love about this role, and indeed, in every international role I've ever had, is the exposure that I have to a variety of people around the world. I absolutely love that. I can be talking to somebody about a potential release date in Japan, but also hearing about a situation where they've had the recent earthquake. I had it, for example, before Christmas, you'll recall the volcano in Iceland. And I happened to write to our team in Iceland just to check in and say, "Hope you guys are okay." I was a little surprised that he sent me back a video from his town where you could see in the distance the volcano erupting, not that close, but I love the experience of being close to it.

And also on a negative side, just seeing what's happening, there are some tricky situations around the world at the moment in terms of war and just understanding the impact that that has on individuals, on countries and then on our world, and the importance of getting the message into those countries about stories and behaviors and cultures and then educating folks. And that's so important. I truly think that it's just the most wonderful opportunity to get to know people and understand what makes them tick.

Mark Greaves:

I think an awful lot of problems in our culture, both in the US and the UK, could be solved by people just getting to know people in different cultures and different ways of ... And working out that the world doesn't actually revolve just around a monoculture or that type of stuff, but we're veering dangerously into dangerous territory at that stage.

So, let's wrap up on a slight contrast here. What's the best and the worst part about living in California and what do you miss from the UK?

Helen Moss:

Okay. I miss fish and chips, bacon sandwiches and pasties. It's not all about food.

Mark Greaves:

The farmer's daughter has spoken. It is about food.

Helen Moss:

I love British pubs on a summer's day. That's what I miss. Obviously, my family.

Mark Greaves:

It's all right, we'll edit that. We'll put the family first so they won't notice. It'll be fine.

Helen Moss:

No, I think fish and chips is up there. I think fish and chips is up there first. You don't get them here. What do I love about here? First and foremost, no surprise, the weather. The weather is an absolute tonic. I recall when I first moved here, somebody said to me, "It's just the feeling you have every day," sorry, you don't want to hear this, "but when you wake up and you just, 95% of the time, you wake up and you look out and the weather is just lovely." It's blue sky, it's a real tonic.

But California itself is a beautiful state. So much to see, so much to do. Indeed, friends and family visit L.A. and I think they're often a bit ... It's not, dare I say, as beautiful and as culturally and historically wonderful as places like London or Paris, but it's got a uniqueness, and I love that about L.A. You have to go beneath a few layers to find out what makes Los Angeles tick. But overall, when we moved here, my husband and I said that we wanted to make sure that we could see every state. And I'm happy to say in 12 years we've done 36 states and counting. So, we've still got a way to go, but it's a blessing to have the opportunity to be here.

Mark Greaves:

Ideal. Well, thank you, Helen, so much for joining us today and for sharing your story with our listeners, who I hope have enjoyed it as much as I have. Fascinating to hear about the mechanics of the industry and understand what the Paramount Pictures actually plays in that, and also the risks regarding that such big commissioning early on.

Helen Moss:

Can I just say something, Mark, just as a plug for the industry? Something that a few people will know, and I think this is just so heartwarming. We've been through the wringer like a lot of industries, and a lot of people will say, "I can watch movies at home. I've got a big TV at home and surround sound. I don't need to see a movie in the movie theater." Let me just say, five of the top 15 highest grossing movies ever have released since the pandemic. Not many people know that, and I think that's such an incredible testament to this business.

Just for the record, in case you're interested on those top five. It's Avatar. It's Spider-Man. It's Top Gun: Maverick. Give a shout-out to Paramount. It's Barbie. And Super Mario Brothers. One from each of the major studios, I'm pleased to say. So, this movie's got a lot of energies in it still to go.

Mark Greaves:

Thank you for that, Helen, and thank you to our audience for listening to our latest episode of Business Noodles. Hope you've enjoyed our conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast to get updates and notifications on when our latest episodes are available.