An obsession with taste and flavour - Guy Tullberg from Tracklements

In this latest episode of Business Noodles, we chat to Guy Tullberg, the managing director of Tracklements, an award-winning manufacturer of artisan condiments. Guy shares the fascinating story of how the business began with his father's discovery of a 17th-century recipe for whole grain mustard. He explains how the company has grown from a small family business to a renowned brand known for its high-quality condiments, including mustards, savoury jellies and onion marmalade.

In the conversation, Guy discusses the importance of local supply chains and the resilience they provide. He also highlights the company's commitment to sustainability and ethical practices, including their involvement with B Corp and the Living Wage Foundation.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in food, business and sustainability. Guy's stories about accidental discoveries, historical recipes, and the importance of collaboration and innovation offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and food enthusiasts alike.

Transcript

Mark Greaves:

Today I'm delighted that our guest is Guy Tullberg, managing director of Tracklements, an award-winning manufacturer of artisan condiments that describes itself as "the life and soul of the pantry."

I'm Mark Greaves from PKF Francis Clark, and I'll be your host. Don't forget to follow the podcast to get updates and notifications on when our latest episodes are available.

Hi Guy, how are you today?

Guy Tullberg:

All fine, thanks. Good to be with you.

Mark Greaves:

Excellent.

So I love the phrase "life and soul of the pantry." It makes me smile when I actually say it. But could you give our listeners a more down-to-earth description of what Tracklements does?

Guy Tullberg:

Tracklements, as you said, we manufacture condiments. If there's a condiment you can think of, we probably make it. And the reason why we came up with "the life and soul of the pantry" is that just if you take away your condiment from your plate of food, it's just missing something, so we like to think of ourselves as being the life and soul of your pantry, everyone's pantry.

Mark Greaves:

I like the play on the pantry/party type stuff at that stage.

And what do you do day-to-day?

Guy Tullberg:

Day-to-day, from my perspective ... I've always said we're a 70 people business and I joined the company as a fourth employee, and I'm still really, really interested in the manufacturing and making of condiments. I almost have to tear myself away from the factory. But my day-to-day role is looking after those 69 people that work in the business, and I always see my role as clearing everything out of the way to make their roles as easy as possible to do.

Mark Greaves:

That's a really brilliant description of a proper MD in an SME. That is really good on that side. Not heard that one before.

But let's rewind. Let's take it back to the beginning. I understand the business origin revolves around your father and a 17th century diary. Could you expand?

Guy Tullberg:

Yes. My dear father was a foodie before the word was invented really, I think he hated being described as that. But he used to read cookbooks, food books as people pick up novels, and he found this recipe in John Ethan's diary for making whole grain mustard. And at the time, he was working in the meat business making what he described as revolting sausages, and he started to make his own grainy mustard to go with that.

So he got an old coffee grinder, gave it a lash, and like all those things, when he first made it, he thought, "Well, that doesn't taste very good," and went back to it seven to 10 days later, and then whoopee, bingo, we had a really, really good product; which is why now when we make our mustard, which is where the business started, every mustard spends seven to 10 days in a barrel in order to get all those flavours to come out.

Mark Greaves:

So there wasn't anything in the diary about a maturity period or anything else like that?

Guy Tullberg:

No, I mean, I think people probably consume mustard pretty, pretty quickly. I mean, we know from history that ... As we have to say, we blame the Romans for everything, but we think the Romans brought mustard to the UK, and they actually carried it in their pouches because it was such an easy product to plant. We know that they were able to add spice to their food, and they would've just mixed it up with a little bit of vinegar or a little bit of water and probably consumed it almost straight away.

Mark Greaves:

So effectively you're down to an accident of your father just walking away and thinking, "Oh, I'll leave that for the moment."

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah. And I think from then on, you just go and say ... You know, we see ourselves as being a very early challenger brand. So we were able to look at it and say, "Well, what's currently for sale in terms of horseradish? What's currently for sale in terms of red currant jelly? Let's just make them really good, and that's where we'll plant ourselves, being the best of the best."

Mark Greaves:

I suppose we can also add that to the old Monty Python sketch of, "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

Guy Tullberg:

Absolutely.

Mark Greaves:

Mustard in the UK.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah.

Mark Greaves:

Okay. Talk to me a bit more about those early days, about the production techniques that your father had to actually almost pioneer.

Guy Tullberg:

So it was finding our way around ... As we developed and grew, it was really finding the mechanics and machines to allow us to grind those mustards; or at the time we were then starting to cook and make what we called savoury jellies.

So in the end we found a wheat grinder, a wheat mill, which we found from an importer up in Gloucestershire, and then subsequently, we've now found the manufacturer in Denmark, and I've been over there to go and buy the direct machines. And I think we might be on our sixth machine over a period of 50 years, and we run these two mustard grinders. They're basically two rolling stones. So we drop the mustard seed through the rolling stones. And we named our mustard grinders, and they're called Mick and Keith.

Mark Greaves:

We're certainly going for a certain age group at this particular moment with Rolling Stones and the Monty Pythons together at that moment. I'll probably have to do an explanation note under the podcast for the newer listeners.

So you started with that brilliant initiative. You started growing through the savoury jellies, etc. How did you first start exporting?

Guy Tullberg:

We put our first order going to America on the back of some very good friends of ours who are into cheese in the southwest. We went in through Neal's Yard Dairy to two or three customers in the US, and that got bigger and bigger and we carried on sort of piggybacking on cheese. And from then on we just had an interest in saying, "This is part of our journey, so let's pursue it."

Mark Greaves:

That's interesting you're cooperating with another business. We've talked before on the podcast about potentially if you are not in the metropolises of this world, that you have to be more innovative, you have to have some more cooperation, etc. Was that one of the early drivers?

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, I think so. I mean, you meet people at shows. I mean, we're outgoing, we want to learn. We never stop learning. And I think you meet people at shows. So we met this great business who we're still in touch with, who are West Country Somerdale International, big cheese exporter. I think those things and those stories, we're always finding out from that, and we share those stories too, "Who are you working with? What are you doing? How do they work for you?" So we build and we build.

And we have a lovely story. Our Australian importer who is now 25 years with us, we met through supplying our horseradish to Conrad's restaurants. One of the chefs said, "You need to meet these people from Tracklements" to a fella who'd come over from Australia. That relationship has been going for, as I say, 25 years.

Mark Greaves:

It's always those accidental meetings, that accidental, "Oh, perhaps you should speak to whom" at this stage.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah.

Mark Greaves:

On a personal note then, how did you first get involved at this? Did you want to always be involved in the business when you were at school?

Guy Tullberg:

It's something that's on the periphery, and I never really thought that existed. I wanted to pursue a slightly different journey. I'd worked summers and helped my father out. My father actually ran a restaurant at the same time as making his mustard. The mustard didn't really get going until later, so he ran this restaurant and I would help him out. So I didn't really think there was a business there.

I also had what I call an interesting journey through my schooling. I left school under a little bit of a cloud age 16, and I, in fact, a bit like Dick Whittington, went off to the city to seek my fortune. I ended up working in the city for three and a half years, which was a great grounding to see something different. And then I went through my rebellious phase, became a dispatch rider, which I really, really enjoyed, to earn some money to go traveling, which I subsequently did.

And then on my return, I met my father in a pub. My pa was always in the pub, he loved pubs. And he said, "We're getting a bit busier. Do you want to come and join us?" And I said, "Yes," thinking it would be a sort of six-month journey. And he said, "Let's review it and have a chat in six months." And we always used to joke that we'd never had that six-month chat. So here I am some years later.

Mark Greaves:

I think some 40 years later or something like that.

Guy Tullberg:

40 years. Yeah.

Mark Greaves:

Yeah that six-month chat. "Yeah, yeah. Perhaps next month, perhaps next month" at that stage.

Wait a minute. So your dad was running a restaurant whilst also launching this?

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, that's right. At the same time.

Mark Greaves:

That's quite hard work.

Guy Tullberg:

Yep, yep. And it actually got me into understanding never being frightened of food. So understanding ... He was a very early pioneer of what are called market-led. We now see farm-to-table restaurants everywhere, don't we? This is the lingo. Try using that lingo in 1978 and it got nowhere, but that's what it was; farm-to-table, or even fishing boat to table. Very simple menu, three things on the menu.

And my father had this thing of no chips, and we had a fellow who wouldn't move without having chips. So my father gave me 50p, he said, "Go out the back door and run up the road, go to the chippy, buy a bag of chips."

Mark Greaves:

Again, a customer is right. Even when they're wrong-

Guy Tullberg:

Always. Always.

Mark Greaves:

... The customer is right at that stage.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah. So that's where my food journey began. That's why I have this interest. We don't use the term passion, I prefer obsession with food and taste and flavour.

Mark Greaves:

I think you share quite a lot of characteristics with some of our other famous guests about not doing brilliantly at school, but then eventually finding their ... I'll use the word obsession rather than passion at that stage.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah.

Mark Greaves:

And how did you take over as managing director? How did that transition work?

Guy Tullberg:

As I referred to, getting thrown out of school was not a good idea, and I think I missed out on some learning. I decided that I wanted to go out and learn, learn about business. And one of the things that's excited me, I think as much as making sauce and various things, has been the business journey.

So I enrolled on my first course with the Bristol University Business School, which was three days a month. Then you didn't take an exam, you did basically a business plan presentation to a very early form of Dragon's Den. That excited my interest in the process of business. What you do is really, really important, but how you do it is doubly important.

And then from that journey, I then took my Chartered Director Programme with the Institute of Directors, who I'm a very keen fan of, to give me the qualification. And then that qualification then gave me really the solidity of knowledge to put myself forward really to be the MD of Tracklements. So there wasn't an obvious succession. It was probably me saying, "I'm ready now to do this. I've got the knowledge and let's go." And luckily, I don't think there was any ... There was no disagreement.

Mark Greaves:

Well, that's quite interesting because that's the thing that's come back really over the last few years about that lifelong education, about that learning about business; perhaps the old Hackney trade of you working on the business rather than in the business. But education becoming much more important on a lifelong basis.

And the IOD running those type of general courses, I've only seen them as kind of introduction type stuff, but obviously you've seen them as longer term.

Guy Tullberg:

Yes. I mean, you can do bite-sized parts of it. I thought about doing an MBA at one point, and I just thought, "That's just such a huge undertaking." But as somebody said to me, they said, "Guy, you're already running and operating a business. You don't need to learn how to do that. You need to learn a bit of process." And so hence I went on the IOD, which is a much shorter series of three to four day bite-sized chunks and doesn't take up quite so much time.

Mark Greaves:

Ideal.

Okay, so back to the business side. Late nineties you launched an onion marmalade coming from another 17th century diary. Is this an untapped source of knowledge we should be combing through?

Guy Tullberg:

Well, you got to think, we were pre-internet days. You can look up pretty much anything and probably work out how to make it using the internet. So between my father and myself, we have what we think is one of the largest private libraries of the history of food and food preservation. And so this interest, you know, we can go down and pick up a book, find something, find a recipe, and when somebody says, "We think your X is a little bit too, I don't know, sweet, sharp, sour," we go, "Well, that's interesting because historically these were the flavours and styles and this is how we did it."

So when we found the recipe for onion marmalade, it caused various problems, because I think, gosh, as you say, long time ago now, and the environmental health or the trading standards turned up said, "Well, marmalade has to be made with oranges," to which we produced over 35 pages of historical referencing to onion marmalade going back to the 17th century. So we were able to prove that not everything that was in existence was correct.

And subsequently, we've challenged ... As I said, we're a challenger brand, and we challenged again with our chili jam. We launched chili jam and our local trading standards just went, "Oh no, not you again."

But the thing is that we find these historical ... It's what we do. We find these historical recipes, launch them, and we basically create categories. So we created the category of wholegrain mustard, we created the category of onion marmalade, or caramelized onion as now people refer to it, and also chili jam. So that's how we do it.

Mark Greaves:

I'm trying to think back to those sorts of times and trying to do that without the internet as a resource to actually prove stuff. But I suppose it also takes me to some comments made on QI on a regular basis and stuff that we assumed was the same in the 16th century or the 17th century; it probably wasn't because we don't really know that much.

Guy Tullberg:

No, and I think understanding why flavours go together. We often wonder, "Why do we eat mint with lamb? Why do we have horseradish with beef?" And we tend to find, as you look into the history, "Why do we have apple with pork?", we tend to find at the same time that we were ... I hate to use the word, but at the same time as we were rearing animals and then slaughtering them for the table, that particular item was probably growing in the field or was in season. I love those historical references, but we like putting them into our modern environment.

And as I said right at the beginning of the program, we have this thing at Tracklements where we have these lunches and we call it British tapas. So there's ham, charcuterie, there's pork pie, there's cheese and endless condiments. And you put all those things together, and when everyone experiences those, they go, "Gosh, you just forget how good all these things are, how good these combinations are." And you take away the condiment, you take away the Tracklement, and it's all wrong. If I say to you, "Here, have a pork pie" and you can't put anything on it, it's not the same experience.

Mark Greaves:

Very much so. And I should have really learned, having done all these podcasts, I must eat before having podcasts, because I'm actually salivating a little here.

You mentioned earlier about local, and I know you've got this preference for local supply chain. And that's really come out of the last few years of the ... Not just the sustainability, the lack of food miles, but more about the reliability, having robust supply chains. Why has that been so important?

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, I think you start with this; local, regional, UK, the rest of the world. I mean, we obviously buy spices, they come from around the world.

But I think it's about resilience. You mentioned resilience and the robustness of the supply chain. If we know that our root veg is coming from a 50 to 60 mile radius or a hundred-mile radius, if we can work with farmers and growers, we then know that the supply that we're going to get, the raw material we're going to get is going to be really, really good. And I think the moment ...

We actually, through COVID, every supply chain shock have tended to be all right because of this very local regional supply chain that we have. And that, by the way, extends to anything, whether or not for us it's our label supplier, whether or not it's our packaging supplier. It's something that we feel is really, really important to put that money back, our supplier money, our trading money as much as possible back into the local economy.

Mark Greaves:

You've actually featured in quite a few famous cookbooks and landed some awards. Are they still as relevant nowadays in promoting the product?

Guy Tullberg:

Without a doubt. I mean, we work very hard to get ourselves in front of chefs and food writers. We were in The Saturday Times this weekend, one of our mustards. Those things are really, really important to us. Last week we actually won the Food & Drink Federation Exporter of the Year, which we were very, very, very surprised about.

Mark Greaves:

Congratulations.

Guy Tullberg:

But yes, I think it's about saying we try and do these things as correctly and right, doing the right thing as much as possible, and I think those awards simply reflect that, whether or not they're food awards, whether or not they're awards for the work that we do in any areas with our suppliers, or its awards for just making a jolly good tasty product.

Mark Greaves:

Oh, that's a new award category, is it? The Jolly Good Tasty Product category.

Guy Tullberg:

Well, I mean, we've got things like the Great Taste Awards, which we enter, and we think we've probably won more of those than any other company in our particular area over many, many, many years.

Mark Greaves:

Well, I've always liked that the James Martin Saturday morning show started featuring those local small suppliers, and he gets them on the show via the power of the internet nowadays. And that I always see as quite a nice powerful boost for more unusual ones that might struggle a little on route to market.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I've worked as a mentor over the last six to seven years with a local thing that's run with the collaborators outside Bath called The Seed Fund. And one of the things that I think when people come in ... This is about small startups and they get help and mentorship. And one of the things I say when I pick up a mentee is, "You don't have to tell me your product tastes good. That's the entry point. The thing is, how are you going to sell that, to whom are you going to sell it, and how quickly," I say, "Are we going to make a quarter of a million turnover, and how quickly can we get to a million?" And then we break that down.

Because although I think that ... You know, taste is really, really important, but our route to market, do we know what our route to market is? If I've started out making a particular sauce, I've got this most amazing tinned product, how am I going to get to the market, to whom, through whom, and how quickly can I make a business out of it?

Mark Greaves:

I suppose I struggle with Dragons' Den a little because of my previous background in corporate finance, but one of those classic things where you do see the embarrassing clip is they've thought all about the product, they've made something really good, and they just assume people are going to turn up or order it over the internet or that type of stuff. And in such a crowded market, that route to market logic just isn't there and they go away quite embarrassed. It makes good telly, but not really good for the business.

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, I agree, I agree. I mean, I think it's something that I get ... You know, we think about all the time, what is our value to the consumer? Are we relevant? It's almost as though it's our starting point for strategy almost every year. Are we in the right places? Are we in the right format? Are we available to the right people, to our consumers? Really, really important.

Mark Greaves:

I know you've got specific views on the large grocery store, the multiples, and we've talked recently to a couple of guests about the difficulties of potentially dealing with them and the difficulty of seeing that as an end solution. What's your viewpoint on them?

Guy Tullberg:

Well, my father was always keen that we didn't trade with them, funny enough, but we feel that's where our consumers now shop and therefore we've built up our relationships with various of the smaller supermarkets, the more specialist supermarkets.

So we take the view, and we have very simple rules, we won't let any one customer have more than 15% of our business. Now by creating that role, we immediately put ourselves into some form of, yes, maybe we're putting a little cap on it. But people get into trouble when they trade with a larger organisation, not just a supermarket, but with a larger organisation when they're putting a large amount of volume through one customer. So that when that one customer slightly puts the squeeze on, it's really, really difficult to know how to react. So because we create these rules, we understand what some of the larger supermarkets require. It does require some investment.

So I would say to anybody looking in that area, make sure you've got a really good spread of customers and marketplaces.

Mark Greaves:

It's always very difficult when you're running a growing SME to actually not look at a really large order and go, "Excellent, that's brilliant." But then you need to be thinking about where that goes. What does that do for you? And I like your 15% rule as giving you something really solid that puts a cap on it at that stage.

Guy Tullberg:

Yes.

Mark Greaves:

I want to deal with a couple of other things; staff motivation, which has obviously been a real topic of debate after the pandemic. How do you deal with staff motivation internally?

Guy Tullberg:

Everybody says this, that their people are really, really important, but we still use quite a lot of artisan methods, so we require people to make a really, really good product. If they're not enjoying coming to work and they don't enjoy their work, why should they have any incentive to be part of making a really, really good product? So many, many years ago, we joined Investors in People, in fact, because we realized how important that was.

And then subsequently, since '21, we became a B Corp. And for those of you who know about B Corp or the B Corporation movement, the B Corp movement, it's about putting people, planet and profit on similar levels and actually making sure you put your people first. So it's really, really important for us that we do what I call the additional bits of looking after our teams.

That's welfare; whether or not that's simply paying them well. You know, we've been a member of the Living Wage Foundation for some years. It's really important. And we do what we call going above and beyond. So we do more than the industry average. We do more than other businesses do.

And something that gets fed back to me from everyone who tours our factory is when they come around, they just say, "I've never been around a place where everybody is so engaged." And I think that's the telling thing. But we also do it through a survey. We just launched our latest staff survey. 86% I think was the last year; 86% of people working at Tracklements are proud to tell friends and family they work there. That's your measure, isn't it? It's as simple as that.

I can't sit at the top of a business as the MD of a business and say, "You will all enjoy yourself every day." I can't. It has to be their responsibility as much of ours. But we create the right environment and then we have motivated, engaged, and interested staff. Sounds easy, but it's taken years and years of effort to do that.

Mark Greaves:

86% is a percentage which I know most businesses would die for in terms of engagement, in terms of proud to be there at that stage. That must take quite a lot of hands-on time with the staff for yourself, yes?

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah, I mean, I like to sit down with every member of staff, and I do, I walk around the factory ... I won't say every seven to 10 days, but at three months everyone gets what they call the three-month chat with Guy. And it's a bit of a joke running around the business; "What is this three-month chat with Guy?" And it's actually about time spent getting to know them, asking them what their interests are. It's nothing to do with work. What are their interests? What about the family? And then I say a little bit about the history of Tracklements, how important it is to us, and then I have a bit about responsibility. I say, "We have a responsibility to you, but you also have a responsibility to us and to your fellow team members to make this a great place to work."

And I put it in really simple terms. We talk about being kind, generous, and fair, and we want everybody in the business to be that. It's a really simple mantra, and if you think about starting out your day with those three things, you're probably going to be all right. And we smile, we say hello, we say good morning. I say to anybody, I say, "If I never acknowledge you, you can come and pick me up on it. It's what we do." And I think it's these simple things ...

Every good product is about getting great ingredients into a single pot or a single area. These are just little ingredients to make what we hope is a really good working environment. Don't think that we don't get things wrong. Of course we do. But the intention always is to do it right, to be generous, kind, and fair.

Mark Greaves:

That's a hell of a mantra to work towards at that stage. I think the world could learn a lesson from that.

You mentioned B Corp earlier. What would you say to other people that are trying to get B Corp nowadays? What would you recommend they start with? How would they adapt?

Guy Tullberg:

Well, first of all, do it because you really want to. Do it because it's in your heart and soul. You'll take a look at it and you can be frightened, but if it's in your heart and soul, that's the style of business that you want to operate, you will get there. You will do it.

I remember when I first looked at it, I was really, really blown away by this thing. I thought, "We're never going to do this, we're never going to do this." But you've got to have buy-in at the top; want to do it, I think, again, in your heart, really want to do it. And what it's given us as a business and as a group of individuals is the opportunity to create a framework for how our business lives and breathes.

So we talk about the business behaving as a good citizen, and we've talked about that for many, many years, but we've never really had anything that encompassed that. So if you as a business are thinking, "Well, how do I make my business behave as a good citizen?", B Corp's a jolly good place to start.

You could do Sunday Times' Best Places to Work. They're all really, really good. But we chose B Corp partly because I think consumers are now looking in that direction. They want to buy a product that's good, yes, but they want to buy a product that's doing good as well. And I hate to think that's the only reason that someone would buy a product, but again, it's one of the ingredients. And so we're obviously very pro-B Corp, but we see it as a guideline as to how we behave as good citizens.

Mark Greaves:

We talked previously on the podcast about the pandemic, and even though it obviously was a horrible experience, people learning lessons from the pandemic. What lessons came out of it for you?

Guy Tullberg:

Keep a good spread of business. We lost 30% of our trade overnight. And there were lots of people that we know obviously in the restaurant and the food business who lost a hundred percent of their business. I mean, it must've been terrible. But what we showed is that actually having fingers in various different pies meant that actually in other areas the business started to increase.

I also think it showed from our teams that we were giving them a safe environment through which to continue to work and that we were looking after them, because that's really, really important.

And I also think from a personal point of view, I actually thought, "My goodness, we can operate some of these systems by using a slightly more flexible working approach, that some of our office-based team can work from home." And I think I learned an awful lot from that.

And the other thing was the ease with which, and I hate to say this again, but the ease with which we could contact our importers across the world and all suddenly say, "Look, we're having monthly meetings, and it's really, really easy and we don't have to get on a plane to do that."

So I think the learnings from COVID were the resilience of the business, the fact that we look after our teams, the fact that we looked after each other ...

And we had an interesting moment, Mark, where somebody came up from the health and safety executive and they said, "We want to check that you're following protocols." So I went downstairs, went through the various protocols where we took everyone's temperature. I took his temperature three times. He didn't pass. I said, "I'm sorry. We're going to have to follow protocols. You can't come on the premises."

Mark Greaves:

Actually, I think there's quite a few inspections that people could do with a, "I'm sorry. It might be the machine, but sorry, you're not allowed in. Can you go away and come back again?"

Guy Tullberg:

Yeah.

But I think those things like COVID just ... I mean, we've used the word robust and resilient. They test the robustness of your systems and processes, and if there's a little chink and a little hole, then it'll be exposed. And that's a good thing too. Gosh, we make mistakes. By no means do we think we get everything right. But it's about trying to do the best that we can.

Mark Greaves:

Definitely. Definitely.

Okay, coming towards the end of our time slot there. Just a couple of lighter things to end on. Where did the name Tracklements come from?

Guy Tullberg:

Supposedly my great-grandmother, who was born in Lincolnshire and raised in Wiltshire, used to sit at the Sunday lunch table and say, "Pass the tracklements." And she meant the salt and pepper, the gravy, the mustard, the mint sauce, the horseradish, whatever it is. And then when my father decided, "What was he going to call his business?", he said, "I'm going to call it Tracklements."

My advice to anyone out there, don't call your business Tracklements. It's really difficult to get your head round and your mouth round and the whole lot. But we've got it and we've had it for 50 years, so we're stuck with it.

So there it is. And we send those tracklements out across the world, and so we're actually putting, I hope, putting the word into modern language.

Mark Greaves:

It'll be the next update to the Oxford English Dictionary at that stage.

Guy Tullberg:

Yes, yes. Well, it was in fact back in 90 something. Yes, it has gone in.

Mark Greaves:

Okay. And an obvious one to end with; got to be your favorite recipe using your tracklements. What's the one that makes you yearn for?

Guy Tullberg:

Sticky onion marmalade sausages. It's on the website. It's basically taking our caramelised onion marmalade, two to three hefty dollops on a pack of sausages, whack it in the oven; 20 minutes later, bingo, you've got your sausages, you've got your onion gravy served with mash, possibly in addition of whole grain mustard if you need another condiment.

Mark Greaves:

I have got to start eating before I do the podcast. This is just terrible on that.

Well, thank you, Guy, so much for joining us today and for sharing your story with our listeners. And I hope ... There's an underlying theme there about the multifaceted ingredients, both physical and virtual, that go into making a really good product. So thank you, Guy.

Guy Tullberg:

A pleasure. Thank you very much, Mark.

Mark Greaves:

And thank you to our audience for listening to our latest episode of Business Noodles. Hope you've enjoyed our conversation.

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