{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":0.36,"endTime":4.98,"body":"The place is Concord"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":0.36,"endTime":4.98,"body":"Massachusetts, the year 1856. At"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":4.98,"endTime":9.51,"body":"10am on a January day, four men"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":4.98,"endTime":9.51,"body":"began removing a huge American"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":9.51,"endTime":13.11,"body":"elm tree trunk using block and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":9.51,"endTime":13.11,"body":"tackle, and ropes drawn by a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":13.11,"endTime":16.89,"body":"horse. The upper branches had"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":13.11,"endTime":16.89,"body":"been removed a few days before."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":17.58,"endTime":20.4,"body":"Prior to this, the tree along"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":17.58,"endTime":20.4,"body":"the main road was seemingly"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":20.4,"endTime":23.46,"body":"healthy, and was a village"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":20.4,"endTime":23.46,"body":"marker seen by everyone passing"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":23.46,"endTime":27.51,"body":"through the old colonial town."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":23.46,"endTime":27.51,"body":"The tree towered above a house"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":27.54,"endTime":31.05,"body":"owned by Mr. And Mrs. Charles B."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":27.54,"endTime":31.05,"body":"Davis. But they heard some"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":31.05,"endTime":34.17,"body":"creaking and a storm that winter"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":31.05,"endTime":34.17,"body":"and said one of the branches was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":34.17,"endTime":38.46,"body":"cracked. They were fearful and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":34.17,"endTime":38.46,"body":"wanted it down. The event would"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":38.46,"endTime":41.4,"body":"have been long forgotten, except"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":38.46,"endTime":41.4,"body":"one of America's greatest"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":41.4,"endTime":44.43,"body":"writers and earliest"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":41.4,"endTime":44.43,"body":"environmentalists also lived in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":44.43,"endTime":49.08,"body":"Concord, Henry David Thoreau."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":44.43,"endTime":49.08,"body":"The removal of the stately elm"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":49.08,"endTime":52.26,"body":"set him off, at least in a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":49.08,"endTime":52.26,"body":"flurry of journal writing."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":52.92,"endTime":56.34,"body":"Today's episode is about why the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":52.92,"endTime":56.34,"body":"tree was such a touchstone for"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":56.34,"endTime":60.39,"body":"him. And more broadly, why the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":56.34,"endTime":60.39,"body":"American LM was so important to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":60.39,"endTime":63.78,"body":"the character of New England"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":60.39,"endTime":63.78,"body":"towns in the 19th century, and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":63.78,"endTime":66.96,"body":"ultimately streetscapes across"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":63.78,"endTime":66.96,"body":"the country to the present day."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":67.95,"endTime":71.73,"body":"I have a wide ranging discussion"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":67.95,"endTime":71.73,"body":"about it with my guest, Thomas"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":71.73,"endTime":75.3,"body":"Campanella, Professor and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":71.73,"endTime":75.3,"body":"Historian at Cornell University,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":75.45,"endTime":79.47,"body":"who wrote the fascinating book,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":75.45,"endTime":79.47,"body":"Republic of Shade, New England"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":79.47,"endTime":83.94,"body":"and the American Elm. It turns"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":79.47,"endTime":83.94,"body":"out, elm trees helped define our"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":83.94,"endTime":88.08,"body":"young nation's sense of itself."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":83.94,"endTime":88.08,"body":"Real or constructed, you can"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":88.08,"endTime":92.19,"body":"decide for yourself. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":88.08,"endTime":92.19,"body":"joining me today. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":92.19,"endTime":94.83,"body":"Doug Still, and welcome to This"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":92.19,"endTime":94.83,"body":"Old Tree."},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":99.27,"endTime":104.4,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":99.27,"endTime":104.4,"body":"old tree, standing here for more"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":104.4,"endTime":110.58,"body":"than four centuries. I wonder"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":104.4,"endTime":110.58,"body":"what you'd say if you could talk"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":110.58,"endTime":111.24,"body":"to me...."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":111.27,"endTime":113.1,"body":"If you're"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":111.27,"endTime":113.1,"body":"listening to this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":113.13,"endTime":116.79,"body":"you're a tree lover. So speaking"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":113.13,"endTime":116.79,"body":"for most of us, we've all felt"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":116.79,"endTime":119.61,"body":"those feelings of loss that"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":116.79,"endTime":119.61,"body":"Thoreau felt that day in"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":119.61,"endTime":124.14,"body":"January, 1856. Perhaps you once"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":119.61,"endTime":124.14,"body":"heard the buzzing of chainsaws"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":124.14,"endTime":126.99,"body":"near your home to find out that"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":124.14,"endTime":126.99,"body":"a neighbor has taken down to"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":126.99,"endTime":130.92,"body":"mature oak tree say, or maybe a"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":126.99,"endTime":130.92,"body":"developer cleared all the trees"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":130.92,"endTime":134.37,"body":"from an entire lot in order to"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":130.92,"endTime":134.37,"body":"build a house and couldn't"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":134.37,"endTime":138.27,"body":"bother to save even the biggest."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":134.37,"endTime":138.27,"body":"Or in the name of progress, a"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.18,"body":"road project bludgeoned its way"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.18,"body":"through the roots of a grand old"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":141.18,"endTime":144.39,"body":"street tree, leading to its"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":141.18,"endTime":144.39,"body":"demise with the explanation"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":144.39,"endTime":147.84,"body":"that, \"It couldn't be saved.\""},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":144.39,"endTime":147.84,"body":"Maybe some of the reasons were"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":147.84,"endTime":151.44,"body":"good, maybe not. 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Thoreau had"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":167.73,"endTime":171.12,"body":"published Walden just a few"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":167.73,"endTime":171.12,"body":"years before, the work for which"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":171.12,"endTime":175.17,"body":"he is best known. It is a memoir"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":171.12,"endTime":175.17,"body":"of living alone on nearby Walden"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":175.17,"endTime":178.77,"body":"Pond for two years, a"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":175.17,"endTime":178.77,"body":"celebration of nature and simple"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":178.77,"endTime":182.4,"body":"living. It had precise"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":178.77,"endTime":182.4,"body":"measurement and observation of"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":182.4,"endTime":186.21,"body":"his natural surroundings, and"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":182.4,"endTime":186.21,"body":"described a great appreciation"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":186.21,"endTime":189.24,"body":"for the rhythms of life we take"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":186.21,"endTime":189.24,"body":"for granted. A"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":189.24,"endTime":193.68,"body":"transcendentalist, Thoreau wove"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":189.24,"endTime":193.68,"body":"a spiritual dimension throughout"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":193.68,"endTime":197.76,"body":"the book with reflections on"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":193.68,"endTime":197.76,"body":"solitude and meditation. But"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":197.76,"endTime":201.42,"body":"Thoreau's writing also offered"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":197.76,"endTime":201.42,"body":"some bite toward materialistic"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":201.42,"endTime":204.75,"body":"contemporary culture, and the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":201.42,"endTime":204.75,"body":"foolishness of some of his"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":204.75,"endTime":209.13,"body":"peers, especially politicians."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":204.75,"endTime":209.13,"body":"The removal of the Concord elm"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":209.13,"endTime":212.31,"body":"tree brought out his cranky"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":209.13,"endTime":212.31,"body":"side, brilliant and"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":212.31,"endTime":216.03,"body":"intellectual, but cranky"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":212.31,"endTime":216.03,"body":"nonetheless. After describing"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":216.03,"endTime":219.3,"body":"the takedown in great detail and"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":216.03,"endTime":219.3,"body":"taking measurements of the old"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":219.3,"endTime":222.84,"body":"friend, he said that if the town"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":219.3,"endTime":222.84,"body":"clerk won't chronicle the tree's"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":222.84,"endTime":227.55,"body":"fall, than he would. For, \"It is"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":222.84,"endTime":227.55,"body":"of greater moment to the town"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":227.58,"endTime":231.54,"body":"than that of many a human"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":227.58,"endTime":231.54,"body":"inhabitant would be. Instead of"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":231.54,"endTime":234.84,"body":"erecting a monument to it, we"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":231.54,"endTime":234.84,"body":"take all possible pains to"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":234.84,"endTime":238.2,"body":"obliterate it's stump, the only"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":234.84,"endTime":238.2,"body":"monument of a tree which is"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":238.2,"endTime":241.83,"body":"commonly allowed to stand.\" He"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":238.2,"endTime":241.83,"body":"claims to have eulogized the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":241.83,"endTime":245.64,"body":"tree, but it seems to me that a"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":241.83,"endTime":245.64,"body":"sort of pissed off sourness was"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":245.64,"endTime":249.06,"body":"just below the surface. He"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":245.64,"endTime":249.06,"body":"wrote, \"I've attended the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":249.06,"endTime":253.14,"body":"felling and, so to speak, the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":249.06,"endTime":253.14,"body":"funeral of this old citizen of"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":253.14,"endTime":257.61,"body":"the town, I who commonly do not"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":253.14,"endTime":257.61,"body":"attend funerals, as it became me"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":257.61,"endTime":262.77,"body":"to do so. I was the chief if not"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":257.61,"endTime":262.77,"body":"the only mourner there. I've"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":262.77,"endTime":265.59,"body":"taken the measure of his"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":262.77,"endTime":265.59,"body":"grandeur, have spoken a few"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":265.59,"endTime":269.1,"body":"words of eulogy at his grave,"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":265.59,"endTime":269.1,"body":"but there were only the choppers"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":269.1,"endTime":272.43,"body":"and the passers by to hear me."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":269.1,"endTime":272.43,"body":"Further, the town was not"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":272.43,"endTime":276.96,"body":"represented. The fathers of the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":272.43,"endTime":276.96,"body":"town, the selectmen, the clergy,"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":276.96,"endTime":280.71,"body":"were not there. But I have not"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":276.96,"endTime":280.71,"body":"known a fitter occasion for a"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":280.71,"endTime":284.22,"body":"sermon of late, since it's"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":280.71,"endTime":284.22,"body":"kindred could not attend. I"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":284.22,"endTime":288.42,"body":"attended.\" I'm paraphrasing"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":284.22,"endTime":288.42,"body":"different parts, but he goes on"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":288.42,"endTime":292.2,"body":"that \"Me thinks it's fall marks"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":288.42,"endTime":292.2,"body":"an epic in the history of the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":292.2,"endTime":296.73,"body":"town. It is passed away together"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":292.2,"endTime":296.73,"body":"with a clergy of the old school"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":296.73,"endTime":300.36,"body":"and the stage coach which used"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":296.73,"endTime":300.36,"body":"to rattle beneath it. It's"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":300.36,"endTime":304.05,"body":"virtue was that it steadily grew"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":300.36,"endTime":304.05,"body":"and expanded from year to year"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":304.11,"endTime":308.61,"body":"to the very last. How much of"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":304.11,"endTime":308.61,"body":"Old Concord falls with it."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":309.63,"endTime":312.6,"body":"Another link that bound us to"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":309.63,"endTime":312.6,"body":"the past has been broken.\""},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":312.6,"endTime":317.1,"body":"[Music] I had the privilege of"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":312.6,"endTime":317.1,"body":"talking about all this with Tom"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":317.1,"endTime":321.18,"body":"Campanella. Because this old"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":317.1,"endTime":321.18,"body":"tree in Concord was an American"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":321.18,"endTime":325.11,"body":"elm, I learned that its loss was"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":321.18,"endTime":325.11,"body":"charged with symbolism that"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":325.11,"endTime":327.03,"body":"reached into our national"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":325.11,"endTime":327.03,"body":"identity."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":330.57,"endTime":332.97,"body":"Tom Campanella is"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":330.57,"endTime":332.97,"body":"Professor of History and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":332.97,"endTime":336.03,"body":"Regional Planning at Cornell"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":332.97,"endTime":336.03,"body":"University, and he has written"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":336.03,"endTime":339.51,"body":"extensively about the history of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":336.03,"endTime":339.51,"body":"American urbanism and landscape,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":339.78,"endTime":343.65,"body":"especially in New York City and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":339.78,"endTime":343.65,"body":"in particular, Brooklyn. He's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":343.65,"endTime":347.07,"body":"also written about urbanism and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":343.65,"endTime":347.07,"body":"city planning in China and the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":347.07,"endTime":350.91,"body":"rapid growth happening there."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":347.07,"endTime":350.91,"body":"But what brings Tom to us today"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":351.33,"endTime":354.87,"body":"is his work on the cultural"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":351.33,"endTime":354.87,"body":"importance of the American Elm"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":354.9,"endTime":358.89,"body":"in American history, especially"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":354.9,"endTime":358.89,"body":"in New England. You wrote a book"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":358.89,"endTime":363.27,"body":"in 2003, called Republic of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":358.89,"endTime":363.27,"body":"Shade, New England and the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":363.27,"endTime":366.6,"body":"American Elm, which won the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":363.27,"endTime":366.6,"body":"Spiro Kostof Award from the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":366.6,"endTime":370.35,"body":"Society for Architectural"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":366.6,"endTime":370.35,"body":"Historians. Tom, welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":370.35,"endTime":370.86,"body":"show."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":371.28,"endTime":371.97,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":372.36,"endTime":376.29,"body":"I'm so happy to have"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":372.36,"endTime":376.29,"body":"you here today. I loved your"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":376.29,"endTime":381.09,"body":"book on the American Elm. It's a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":376.29,"endTime":381.09,"body":"great read for anyone who loves"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":381.12,"endTime":385.44,"body":"trees and history such as"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":381.12,"endTime":385.44,"body":"myself, and I learned a lot"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":385.44,"endTime":390.69,"body":"about why this tree holds such"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":385.44,"endTime":390.69,"body":"an esteemed place within the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":390.72,"endTime":395.55,"body":"greater pantheon of trees, and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":390.72,"endTime":395.55,"body":"also because it helped define an"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":395.55,"endTime":399.51,"body":"image of the quintessential"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":395.55,"endTime":399.51,"body":"American town or streetscape"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":399.51,"endTime":404.25,"body":"[yes, exactly] in real terms,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":399.51,"endTime":404.25,"body":"but also within our memory and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":404.25,"endTime":408.06,"body":"psyche. So we're going to come"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":404.25,"endTime":408.06,"body":"back to that in a minute. [Sure]"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":408.12,"endTime":412.8,"body":"But I'd love to start by talking"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":408.12,"endTime":412.8,"body":"about one story in particular,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":413.61,"endTime":417.84,"body":"that you wrote about about an"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":413.61,"endTime":417.84,"body":"American Elm in Concord,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":417.84,"endTime":425.25,"body":"Massachusetts, and the year is"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":417.84,"endTime":425.25,"body":"1856. And this was a huge,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":425.43,"endTime":429.75,"body":"gorgeous elm tree that stood"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":425.43,"endTime":429.75,"body":"over the house of Charles B."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":429.75,"endTime":432.99,"body":"Davis, who ran the post office"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":429.75,"endTime":432.99,"body":"and was a storekeeper,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":432.99,"endTime":439.29,"body":"apparently. And it was known by"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":432.99,"endTime":439.29,"body":"everyone, especially the great"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":439.29,"endTime":444.36,"body":"American nature writer, Henry"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":439.29,"endTime":444.36,"body":"David Thoreau, and he wrote"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":444.36,"endTime":448.53,"body":"about this tree and I would love"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":444.36,"endTime":448.53,"body":"to ask you, if you wouldn't mind"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":448.53,"endTime":452.46,"body":"describing what happened and why"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":448.53,"endTime":452.46,"body":"he wrote about this tree?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":452.76,"endTime":455.67,"body":"Well, first"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":452.76,"endTime":455.67,"body":"of all, it's a testament to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":455.67,"endTime":461.43,"body":"Thoreau's wonderful capacity to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":455.67,"endTime":461.43,"body":"appreciate even the quotidian,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":461.46,"endTime":466.83,"body":"you know, and they every day."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":461.46,"endTime":466.83,"body":"Aside from trees, which are I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":466.83,"endTime":470.7,"body":"always have felt that they tend"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":466.83,"endTime":470.7,"body":"to be very invisible to most"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":470.7,"endTime":475.59,"body":"people. It's remarkable to me"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":470.7,"endTime":475.59,"body":"how, you know, we are we pay"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":475.59,"endTime":479.73,"body":"attention to almost every detail"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":475.59,"endTime":479.73,"body":"and minutiae about the built"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":479.73,"endTime":485.13,"body":"environment, and yet somehow,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":479.73,"endTime":485.13,"body":"trees have have long evaded our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":485.46,"endTime":490.65,"body":"attention. And so to come across"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":485.46,"endTime":490.65,"body":"a Thorough who vests so much"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":490.65,"endTime":497.85,"body":"meaning and significance in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":490.65,"endTime":497.85,"body":"trees is just such a joy. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":497.85,"endTime":502.26,"body":"this tree in particular, to be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":497.85,"endTime":502.26,"body":"honest, it is not a tree like"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":502.26,"endTime":506.13,"body":"the Weathersfield Elm, which"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":502.26,"endTime":506.13,"body":"was, maybe twelve feet in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":506.13,"endTime":511.95,"body":"diameter. It's a relatively"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":506.13,"endTime":511.95,"body":"young American Elm. By his"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":511.95,"endTime":517.53,"body":"measure, quite literally, it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":511.95,"endTime":517.53,"body":"125-127 years old. And of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":517.53,"endTime":522.33,"body":"course, he is an inveterate tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":517.53,"endTime":522.33,"body":"ring counter, he counts tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":522.33,"endTime":527.19,"body":"rings, the way he plumbed the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":522.33,"endTime":527.19,"body":"depths of Walden Pond. And he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":527.19,"endTime":534.06,"body":"writes about how ignorance is so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":527.19,"endTime":534.06,"body":"sticky and persistent in that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":534.06,"endTime":538.05,"body":"you know, people would, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":534.06,"endTime":538.05,"body":"know, many townspeople in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":538.05,"endTime":544.2,"body":"Concord continued to believe"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":538.05,"endTime":544.2,"body":"that Walden Pond had no bottom"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":544.2,"endTime":550.23,"body":"that it was limitless in depth"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":544.2,"endTime":550.23,"body":"and or was, you know, many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":550.23,"endTime":553.71,"body":"fathoms deep. And all he did was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":550.23,"endTime":553.71,"body":"go out in a rowboat and and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":553.71,"endTime":557.25,"body":"plumb the depths and he came up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":553.71,"endTime":557.25,"body":"with a number to prove that they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":557.25,"endTime":560.61,"body":"were all being superstitious and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":557.25,"endTime":560.61,"body":"ignorant. And the same thing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":560.61,"endTime":564.18,"body":"about this elm, which some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":560.61,"endTime":564.18,"body":"people thought was 200 years"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":564.18,"endTime":567.24,"body":"old, and others thought it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":564.18,"endTime":567.24,"body":"only 50 years old or something"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":567.24,"endTime":567.69,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":568.11,"endTime":569.64,"body":"He was like, just"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":568.11,"endTime":569.64,"body":"count the rings."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":569.7,"endTime":572.97,"body":"He counts the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":569.7,"endTime":572.97,"body":"rings, right? And he comes up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":572.97,"endTime":578.73,"body":"with a number and 127 years is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":572.97,"endTime":578.73,"body":"not really that old for a tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":578.73,"endTime":582.15,"body":"like an American elm, right?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":578.73,"endTime":582.15,"body":"Some of the great New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":582.15,"endTime":586.56,"body":"elms that I came across in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":582.15,"endTime":586.56,"body":"research for Republic of Shade"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.55,"body":"were much older than that -"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.55,"body":"twice, maybe even three times"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":590.55,"endTime":595.2,"body":"that age. And there are still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":590.55,"endTime":595.2,"body":"not many, but there are still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":595.23,"endTime":599.64,"body":"some elms in New England that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":595.23,"endTime":599.64,"body":"can claim to be a couple hundred"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":599.64,"endTime":603.63,"body":"years old. There was one on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":599.64,"endTime":603.63,"body":"outskirts of Hartford within"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":603.66,"endTime":607.32,"body":"sight of the the airport there -"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":603.66,"endTime":607.32,"body":"I forget the name of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":607.32,"endTime":611.25,"body":"airfield - that must have been"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":607.32,"endTime":611.25,"body":"about 200-250 years old. I don't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":611.25,"endTime":615.3,"body":"know if it's still there. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":611.25,"endTime":615.3,"body":"anyway, this tree this elm that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":615.39,"endTime":619.68,"body":"Thoreau talks about is not that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":615.39,"endTime":619.68,"body":"I think he says it's it's 15"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":619.68,"endTime":623.76,"body":"feet in circumference, which is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":619.68,"endTime":623.76,"body":"only maybe a four foot diameter"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":623.79,"endTime":627.09,"body":"breast height tree, right?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":623.79,"endTime":627.09,"body":"That's big, but it's not a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":627.09,"endTime":630.57,"body":"monster. It's certainly not one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":627.09,"endTime":630.57,"body":"of the great really big elms in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":630.57,"endTime":634.44,"body":"New England at that time. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":630.57,"endTime":634.44,"body":"yet he mourns it and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":634.47,"endTime":636.12,"body":"appropriately so."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":636.42,"endTime":637.92,"body":"So this tree came"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":636.42,"endTime":637.92,"body":"down."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":638.1,"endTime":640.74,"body":"Yes, it's cut"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":638.1,"endTime":640.74,"body":"down because and this is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":640.74,"endTime":644.22,"body":"something you know that I've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":640.74,"endTime":644.22,"body":"encountered myself so many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":644.22,"endTime":650.4,"body":"times, regrettably. You know, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":644.22,"endTime":650.4,"body":"was a threat you know? It's you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":650.4,"endTime":653.88,"body":"know [air quotes] being you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":650.4,"endTime":653.88,"body":"know, some creaking sounds,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":653.88,"endTime":659.19,"body":"ominous sounds were heard, which"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":653.88,"endTime":659.19,"body":"I think quite dubious. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":659.19,"endTime":664.59,"body":"anyway I take it  it was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":659.19,"endTime":664.59,"body":"homeowner who was afraid that it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":664.59,"endTime":666.48,"body":"might come down on the house,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":666.96,"endTime":669.84,"body":"He thought it was a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":666.96,"endTime":669.84,"body":"little dubious as well the way"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":669.84,"endTime":669.9,"body":"it..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":669.9,"endTime":673.38,"body":"Yeah, I mean"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":669.9,"endTime":673.38,"body":"it was, I mean trees creak. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":673.38,"endTime":677.07,"body":"mean, they make noises, they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":673.38,"endTime":677.07,"body":"living entities. When the wind"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":677.07,"endTime":681.18,"body":"blows through you know, a tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":677.07,"endTime":681.18,"body":"in obviously creaks, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":681.18,"endTime":686.16,"body":"think Emerson wrote about the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":681.18,"endTime":686.16,"body":"the hoarse concert quote"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":686.16,"endTime":690.12,"body":"unquote, that tree limbs,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":686.16,"endTime":690.12,"body":"brushing against the roof would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":690.12,"endTime":694.23,"body":"make in the wind. But anyway,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":690.12,"endTime":694.23,"body":"the tree come down."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":694.62,"endTime":699.21,"body":"And so, it's in full"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":694.62,"endTime":699.21,"body":"leaf. I mean, it is looks"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":699.21,"endTime":700.41,"body":"healthy and there's a creak."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":700.41,"endTime":703.95,"body":"Yeah, and it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":700.41,"endTime":703.95,"body":"probably was a perfectly healthy"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":703.95,"endTime":707.52,"body":"tree. It shows that when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":703.95,"endTime":707.52,"body":"someone, you know I've had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":707.52,"endTime":711.36,"body":"people say this to me they you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":707.52,"endTime":711.36,"body":"know, the tree is near their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":711.36,"endTime":714.03,"body":"house and even if it fell, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":711.36,"endTime":714.03,"body":"wouldn't even reach the house"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":714.03,"endTime":720.48,"body":"and yet it's... even on campus,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":714.03,"endTime":720.48,"body":"at Cornell we used to have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":720.48,"endTime":724.8,"body":"heritage trees and you know, in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":720.48,"endTime":724.8,"body":"the UK there's a whole program"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":724.8,"endTime":729.45,"body":"about protecting heritage trees."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":724.8,"endTime":729.45,"body":"We seem to have hazard trees"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":729.45,"endTime":732.54,"body":"now. And some of the oldest"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":729.45,"endTime":732.54,"body":"trees on the Cornell campus -"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":732.6,"endTime":736.56,"body":"you know, 200-250 year old oaks"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":732.6,"endTime":736.56,"body":"-have come down in recent years."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":736.56,"endTime":738.03,"body":"Perfectly healthy trees."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":738.39,"endTime":742.17,"body":"We're a litigious"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":738.39,"endTime":742.17,"body":"society and there's also a fear"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":742.17,"endTime":743.1,"body":"of large trees."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":743.13,"endTime":745.32,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":743.13,"endTime":745.32,"body":"risk management people I always"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":745.32,"endTime":748.95,"body":"joke the risk management office"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":745.32,"endTime":748.95,"body":"at Cornell is like the basically"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":748.95,"endTime":752.22,"body":"runs the university. I can say"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":748.95,"endTime":752.22,"body":"this because I'm tenured, by the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":752.22,"endTime":757.65,"body":"way [Doug laughs]. And, so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":752.22,"endTime":757.65,"body":"anyway, if a tree is deemed a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":757.65,"endTime":761.76,"body":"hazard then all the other values"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":757.65,"endTime":761.76,"body":"go out the window, even if it is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":761.76,"endTime":765.57,"body":"perfectly healthy, and poses"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":761.76,"endTime":765.57,"body":"really no hazard at all. So this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":765.57,"endTime":772.26,"body":"tree comes down lamentably. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":765.57,"endTime":772.26,"body":"it seems that Thoreau is perhaps"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":772.26,"endTime":776.13,"body":"the only person who appreciates"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":772.26,"endTime":776.13,"body":"and mourns the passing of this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":776.13,"endTime":779.85,"body":"tree. So I think it's more than"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":776.13,"endTime":779.85,"body":"just that tree, right? It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":779.85,"endTime":782.76,"body":"becomes a symbol and a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":779.85,"endTime":782.76,"body":"touchstone for Thorough,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":782.82,"endTime":787.29,"body":"representing the elm generally,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":782.82,"endTime":787.29,"body":"and I think trees and nature"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":787.29,"endTime":787.95,"body":"generally."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":788.28,"endTime":791.64,"body":"So he eulogized the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":788.28,"endTime":791.64,"body":"tree or at least he said he did."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":791.82,"endTime":792.99,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":791.82,"endTime":792.99,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":793.65,"endTime":796.92,"body":"But he said, there's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":793.65,"endTime":796.92,"body":"no one here to hear this eulogy."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":796.92,"endTime":800.19,"body":"[laughs] There are no town"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":796.92,"endTime":800.19,"body":"selectman. And there's another"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":800.19,"endTime":805.71,"body":"tree in Massachusetts, the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":800.19,"endTime":805.71,"body":"Deerfield elm, that you wrote"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":805.71,"endTime":811.08,"body":"about, that was removed in 1853."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":805.71,"endTime":811.08,"body":"So three years earlier, and it"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":811.08,"endTime":815.4,"body":"was in the press, and they had a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":811.08,"endTime":815.4,"body":"memorial service and dignitaries"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":815.4,"endTime":820.11,"body":"in town. So I'm wondering if he"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":815.4,"endTime":820.11,"body":"was referencing that in a way"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":820.11,"endTime":823.86,"body":"[maybe] like in Deerfield they"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":820.11,"endTime":823.86,"body":"had this big [Yeah] memorial"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":823.86,"endTime":825.45,"body":"service. And here, there's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":823.86,"endTime":825.45,"body":"nobody here."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":825.57,"endTime":828.36,"body":"Yeah, no,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":825.57,"endTime":828.36,"body":"that was a monster that elm."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":828.78,"endTime":832.53,"body":"There's a photo in my book of a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":828.78,"endTime":832.53,"body":"local antiquarian sort of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":832.53,"endTime":836.76,"body":"mourning, you know, standing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":832.53,"endTime":836.76,"body":"there, and he's quite elderly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":836.76,"endTime":839.58,"body":"with a long white beard. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":836.76,"endTime":839.58,"body":"there's a certain symmetry"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":839.58,"endTime":843.69,"body":"between man and tree. But also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":839.58,"endTime":843.69,"body":"remember, Deerfield had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":843.69,"endTime":847.71,"body":"different presence in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":843.69,"endTime":847.71,"body":"cultural memory of New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":847.71,"endTime":852.0,"body":"at that time. You know, now, we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":847.71,"endTime":852.0,"body":"look back at Concord as having"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":852.0,"endTime":856.41,"body":"this enormous historical"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":852.0,"endTime":856.41,"body":"significance because of people"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":856.41,"endTime":860.34,"body":"like Emerson and Thoreau and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":856.41,"endTime":860.34,"body":"Margaret Fuller and others,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":860.37,"endTime":866.22,"body":"Nathaniel Hawthorne. But I think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":860.37,"endTime":866.22,"body":"they looked to Deerfield as a in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":866.22,"endTime":870.21,"body":"an equivalent dimension that we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":866.22,"endTime":870.21,"body":"look perhaps to Concord today."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":870.21,"endTime":873.75,"body":"So, I think that's why that tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":870.21,"endTime":873.75,"body":"got more press and more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":873.75,"endTime":878.55,"body":"coverage. You know, it was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":873.75,"endTime":878.55,"body":"storied tree. I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":878.55,"endTime":883.56,"body":"the details, but it was, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":878.55,"endTime":883.56,"body":"think, a witness to the clashes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":883.56,"endTime":887.52,"body":"with Native Americans that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":883.56,"endTime":887.52,"body":"occurred in Deerfield, many,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":887.55,"endTime":889.95,"body":"many decades or a century"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":887.55,"endTime":889.95,"body":"earlier."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":890.1,"endTime":893.25,"body":"So what did Thoreau"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":890.1,"endTime":893.25,"body":"feel was lost when this tree"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":893.25,"endTime":893.88,"body":"came down?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":894.18,"endTime":898.5,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":894.18,"endTime":898.5,"body":"aside from the magnificence of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":898.5,"endTime":903.69,"body":"it as a naturay being, right, as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":898.5,"endTime":903.69,"body":"a representative of the natural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":903.69,"endTime":908.25,"body":"world, I think he felt it was it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":903.69,"endTime":908.25,"body":"was a witness. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":908.25,"endTime":912.72,"body":"these witness trees were, a real"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":908.25,"endTime":912.72,"body":"presence in the in the Yankee"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":912.72,"endTime":917.19,"body":"landscape in the 19th century,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":912.72,"endTime":917.19,"body":"because they were said to have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":917.19,"endTime":921.3,"body":"been there and witnessed these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":917.19,"endTime":921.3,"body":"historical moments, right. Some"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":921.3,"endTime":925.92,"body":"of them were, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":921.3,"endTime":925.92,"body":"subject of enormous exaggeration"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":925.92,"endTime":929.97,"body":"and inaccuracy. The Washington"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":925.92,"endTime":929.97,"body":"Elm in Cambridge is the best"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":929.97,"endTime":935.4,"body":"example of that. But I think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":929.97,"endTime":935.4,"body":"that's part of it, right? He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":935.4,"endTime":939.57,"body":"mourns the fact that no one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":935.4,"endTime":939.57,"body":"seemed to appreciate that this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":939.57,"endTime":945.51,"body":"was a tree that was present in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":939.57,"endTime":945.51,"body":"the birth, at the moment of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":945.51,"endTime":949.41,"body":"birth of this town, or at least"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":945.51,"endTime":949.41,"body":"it's nascence. You know, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":950.25,"endTime":954.21,"body":"early years, right? 127 years,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":950.25,"endTime":954.21,"body":"it doesn't really go back to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":954.21,"endTime":956.34,"body":"actual founding, but close,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":954.21,"endTime":956.34,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":956.58,"endTime":962.19,"body":"And you write that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":956.58,"endTime":962.19,"body":"he or people at that time, felt"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":962.19,"endTime":966.87,"body":"that elms, in a way, consecrated"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":962.19,"endTime":966.87,"body":"the landscape. [Right] So"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":967.47,"endTime":971.43,"body":"compared to you know, the white"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":967.47,"endTime":971.43,"body":"spires of the churches, that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":971.43,"endTime":975.24,"body":"they they linked to earth and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":971.43,"endTime":975.24,"body":"heaven. Could you talk about"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":975.24,"endTime":975.72,"body":"that a little bit?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":975.72,"endTime":983.07,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":975.72,"endTime":983.07,"body":"actually a concept that Mircea"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":983.1,"endTime":989.82,"body":"Eliade writes about or wrote"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":983.1,"endTime":989.82,"body":"about this notion of an axis"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":989.82,"endTime":994.83,"body":"mundi, right, which is Latin for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":989.82,"endTime":994.83,"body":"basically a pivot of the world"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":995.7,"endTime":999.69,"body":"that links the sacred and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":995.7,"endTime":999.69,"body":"profane. Right. And yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":999.69,"endTime":1004.37,"body":"church steeple, the meetinghouse"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":999.69,"endTime":1004.37,"body":"steeple is a very classic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1004.37,"endTime":1007.97,"body":"example. And we have that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1004.37,"endTime":1007.97,"body":"verticality in many, many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1007.97,"endTime":1013.64,"body":"cultures. You look at some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1007.97,"endTime":1013.64,"body":"the temples in classical Indian"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1017.42,"body":"architecture, it's also that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1017.42,"body":"vertical, that point of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1017.51,"endTime":1023.0,"body":"connectivity between the realms,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1017.51,"endTime":1023.0,"body":"the heavens and the earth. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1023.0,"endTime":1027.83,"body":"there's a certain symmetry that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1023.0,"endTime":1027.83,"body":"emerges between the temple I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1027.83,"endTime":1031.07,"body":"sorry, the meetinghouse staple,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1027.83,"endTime":1031.07,"body":"the church steeple, in New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1031.07,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"England, and the towering"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1031.07,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"solitary elm, right. In many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1043.13,"body":"towns, there was a single elm,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1043.13,"body":"often from the settlement period"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1043.13,"endTime":1047.51,"body":"or reputedly from the settlement"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1043.13,"endTime":1047.51,"body":"period, that was a totem right?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1047.51,"endTime":1051.89,"body":"It had a totemic role in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1047.51,"endTime":1051.89,"body":"good. One of the best examples"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1051.89,"endTime":1056.99,"body":"is the Pittsfield Elm which was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1051.89,"endTime":1056.99,"body":"this enormous tree of great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1057.02,"endTime":1064.88,"body":"height and girth, and it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1057.02,"endTime":1064.88,"body":"reputed to have been a remnant"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1069.14,"body":"of the original forest or the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1064.88,"endTime":1069.14,"body":"Aboriginal forest as was often"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1069.56,"endTime":1073.25,"body":"said. So, it again it had a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1069.56,"endTime":1073.25,"body":"witness role, but also this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1073.25,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"totemic role.  And things, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1073.25,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"know, community events would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.57,"body":"take place or be held at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.57,"body":"base of the tree, right? And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1080.96,"endTime":1086.69,"body":"over time, these totemic trees,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1080.96,"endTime":1086.69,"body":"aside from being witnesses to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1086.87,"endTime":1090.11,"body":"many, you know, maybe a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1086.87,"endTime":1090.11,"body":"centuries worth of history or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1090.11,"endTime":1096.29,"body":"more, tended to draw significant"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1090.11,"endTime":1096.29,"body":"events to them, even events that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1096.86,"endTime":1100.76,"body":"took place quite a ways away."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1096.86,"endTime":1100.76,"body":"They suddenly or over time, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1100.76,"endTime":1104.72,"body":"should say, they became"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1100.76,"endTime":1104.72,"body":"associated with this totemic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1104.72,"endTime":1106.13,"body":"entity in the landscape."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1106.73,"endTime":1110.24,"body":"When you think of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1106.73,"endTime":1110.24,"body":"early drawings or etchings of a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1110.24,"endTime":1114.29,"body":"New England town, and they're up"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1110.24,"endTime":1114.29,"body":"there picking an image to choose"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1114.29,"endTime":1117.41,"body":"to represent that town, it's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1114.29,"endTime":1117.41,"body":"usually the meeting house or"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1117.41,"endTime":1122.99,"body":"church and then an elm. [Yeah] I"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1117.41,"endTime":1122.99,"body":"think that sort of became this"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1122.99,"endTime":1127.04,"body":"image that we remember. And the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1122.99,"endTime":1127.04,"body":"spire is pointy, and the elm is"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1130.25,"body":"sort of the opposite. It's like"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1127.04,"endTime":1130.25,"body":"a like a fountain."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1130.31,"endTime":1132.47,"body":"It's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1130.31,"endTime":1132.47,"body":"fountain. It's, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1132.47,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"was one of the reasons why this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1132.47,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"tree was so embraced early on."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1141.41,"body":"It has this remarkably beautiful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1141.41,"body":"form. And it is like a fountain"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1141.44,"endTime":1144.77,"body":"spray, right? It's often"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1141.44,"endTime":1144.77,"body":"referred, it's often described"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1144.77,"endTime":1149.45,"body":"as a wineglass. I think of it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1144.77,"endTime":1149.45,"body":"more as a fountain spray. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1149.45,"endTime":1154.04,"body":"it's remarkably beautiful in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1149.45,"endTime":1154.04,"body":"limb structure too. Even in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1154.04,"endTime":1158.69,"body":"winter, when the leaves are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1154.04,"endTime":1158.69,"body":"gone, it has this Medusan sort"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1158.69,"endTime":1163.46,"body":"of tangle of limbs that is just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1158.69,"endTime":1163.46,"body":"so beautifully sculptural. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1163.46,"endTime":1169.67,"body":"when you put them next to each"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1163.46,"endTime":1169.67,"body":"other, in the street or commons"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1169.7,"endTime":1174.38,"body":"that are lined with it, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1169.7,"endTime":1174.38,"body":"creates a remarkable image of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1174.38,"endTime":1179.27,"body":"the Gothic arch, which remember,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1174.38,"endTime":1179.27,"body":"in the middle years of the 19th"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1179.27,"endTime":1182.36,"body":"century, this had itself a lot"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1179.27,"endTime":1182.36,"body":"of significance because the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1182.36,"endTime":1186.17,"body":"Gothic, a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1182.36,"endTime":1186.17,"body":"architectural revivals, Gothic"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1186.17,"endTime":1188.9,"body":"architecture is very popular in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1186.17,"endTime":1188.9,"body":"that period, including the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1188.9,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"Gothic Revival. And often you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1188.9,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"have the streets referred to in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1197.09,"body":"those terms that they were, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1197.09,"body":"know, roughhewn or unhewn"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1197.09,"endTime":1202.01,"body":"cathedrals right, and this was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1197.09,"endTime":1202.01,"body":"nation that had turned its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1202.01,"endTime":1204.5,"body":"profane streets into cathedrals."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1206.78,"body":"That's something I"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1206.78,"body":"always used to say in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1206.78,"endTime":1209.99,"body":"describing, you know, what the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1206.78,"endTime":1209.99,"body":"streets used to look like when"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1213.14,"body":"they were lined with American"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1213.14,"body":"elms in our cities and towns."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1213.17,"endTime":1218.39,"body":"This cathedral-like canopy. And"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1213.17,"endTime":1218.39,"body":"I guess I just heard that from"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1218.39,"endTime":1221.39,"body":"somewhere and I would sort of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1218.39,"endTime":1221.39,"body":"repeat it. But it creates an"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1221.39,"endTime":1225.11,"body":"image. It's just interesting to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1221.39,"endTime":1225.11,"body":"hear that there's this sort of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1225.14,"endTime":1228.44,"body":"other source or meaning to it"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1225.14,"endTime":1228.44,"body":"from the 19th century,  [Oh,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1228.44,"endTime":1229.67,"body":"yeah] it's connected."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1230.36,"endTime":1232.91,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1230.36,"endTime":1232.91,"body":"there was actually at least one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1232.91,"endTime":1239.06,"body":"attempt to create a cathedral"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1232.91,"endTime":1239.06,"body":"with elm. It was Montgomery"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1239.06,"endTime":1244.76,"body":"Meigs' father. Montgomery Meigs"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1239.06,"endTime":1244.76,"body":"was an architect who became very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1244.76,"endTime":1249.26,"body":"prominent in the in the Civil"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1244.76,"endTime":1249.26,"body":"War, post Civil War era. He"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1249.26,"endTime":1252.2,"body":"designed the old Pension"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1249.26,"endTime":1252.2,"body":"Building in Washington, which is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1252.2,"endTime":1255.5,"body":"where the National Building"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1252.2,"endTime":1255.5,"body":"Museum is, but yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1255.5,"endTime":1260.51,"body":"that imagery and it's really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1255.5,"endTime":1260.51,"body":"remarkable. You know, you and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1260.51,"endTime":1266.12,"body":"are too young to remember the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1260.51,"endTime":1266.12,"body":"elm as a major presence in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1266.12,"endTime":1270.86,"body":"American towns and cities. But I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1266.12,"endTime":1270.86,"body":"often tell people, you know, who"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1270.86,"endTime":1274.76,"body":"say, well, I really wish I could"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1270.86,"endTime":1274.76,"body":"experience what it was, what Elm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1274.76,"endTime":1280.07,"body":"Street was like. And of all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1274.76,"endTime":1280.07,"body":"places, I would say the best"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1280.13,"endTime":1283.82,"body":"example, the best place to go to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1280.13,"endTime":1283.82,"body":"experience that is the Central"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1283.82,"endTime":1289.16,"body":"Park Mall in New York City. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1283.82,"endTime":1289.16,"body":"mall there, those elms are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1289.16,"endTime":1296.24,"body":"really reaching a glorious state"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1289.16,"endTime":1296.24,"body":"of elder age. And there, it is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1296.24,"endTime":1299.96,"body":"really the closest thing I know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1296.24,"endTime":1299.96,"body":"of. I mean, Washington Mall in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1299.96,"endTime":1302.87,"body":"Washington also, but those trees"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1299.96,"endTime":1302.87,"body":"tend to be a bit smaller."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1303.29,"endTime":1306.02,"body":"And then they lead"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1303.29,"endTime":1306.02,"body":"up to the Bethesda Fountain."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1306.44,"endTime":1309.86,"body":"[Sure] You sort of get a taste"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1306.44,"endTime":1309.86,"body":"of the 19th century I feel, in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1309.86,"endTime":1310.19,"body":"that landscape."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1310.19,"endTime":1312.98,"body":"Yeah, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1310.19,"endTime":1312.98,"body":"much so. It is, yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1312.98,"endTime":1318.2,"body":"Victorian or middle 19th century"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1312.98,"endTime":1318.2,"body":"to Victorian era landscape."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1318.47,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"So at that time, the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1318.47,"endTime":1322.16,"body":"forests of New England were"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1322.19,"endTime":1325.82,"body":"denuded. I mean, they were"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1322.19,"endTime":1325.82,"body":"cleared. [Yeah] There's hardly"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1325.85,"endTime":1330.02,"body":"any old growth forest left."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1325.85,"endTime":1330.02,"body":"[Right] Our forests now are"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1330.02,"endTime":1334.31,"body":"about 140 years old, when they"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1330.02,"endTime":1334.31,"body":"stopped doing the cutting. So in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1334.31,"endTime":1339.92,"body":"the 1850's, Thoreau's responding"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1334.31,"endTime":1339.92,"body":"to, \"Why are we clearing all the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1339.92,"endTime":1343.61,"body":"forests?\" you know, and I think"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1339.92,"endTime":1343.61,"body":"trees became a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1343.61,"endTime":1347.66,"body":"valuable to him, too, for that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1343.61,"endTime":1347.66,"body":"reason, and I can see why they"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"would gather under the trees"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"too, just for some shade, and as"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1351.23,"endTime":1352.04,"body":"a focal point."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1352.46,"endTime":1355.61,"body":"So the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1352.46,"endTime":1355.61,"body":"interesting thing that, and this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1355.61,"endTime":1359.33,"body":"is something that I uncovered"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1355.61,"endTime":1359.33,"body":"and came across again and again"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1359.33,"endTime":1363.02,"body":"in the early literature of New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1359.33,"endTime":1363.02,"body":"England, and especially I used"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1363.02,"endTime":1369.38,"body":"the old agricultural journals"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1363.02,"endTime":1369.38,"body":"and newsletters to do some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1369.38,"endTime":1374.51,"body":"the deep research for this book."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1369.38,"endTime":1374.51,"body":"But the elm was often..  first"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1374.51,"endTime":1380.3,"body":"of all, the elm does not grow in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1374.51,"endTime":1380.3,"body":"pure stands like some trees do,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1380.33,"endTime":1385.13,"body":"right? It is not a tree that you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1380.33,"endTime":1385.13,"body":"see many of or a pure stand of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1385.13,"endTime":1389.42,"body":"in the forest. It's a solitary"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1385.13,"endTime":1389.42,"body":"tree. Much like the the the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1389.42,"endTime":1392.06,"body":"American Sycamore, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1389.42,"endTime":1392.06,"body":"you'll have one there and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1392.06,"endTime":1396.5,"body":"another one some 100 yards away,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1392.06,"endTime":1396.5,"body":"or...and it's also a bottomland"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1396.53,"endTime":1401.06,"body":"and lowland tree, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1396.53,"endTime":1401.06,"body":"not an upland tree. So what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1401.06,"endTime":1407.24,"body":"happened was the the elms were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1401.06,"endTime":1407.24,"body":"saved, ironically, by their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1407.27,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"enormous size, in many cases, or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1407.27,"endTime":1411.23,"body":"at least the older ones were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"because it you know, it would"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1411.23,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"take an enormous amount of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1418.4,"body":"effort to cut one of these down."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1418.4,"body":"Also, as far as clearing the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1418.4,"endTime":1421.52,"body":"fields, why do you clear the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1418.4,"endTime":1421.52,"body":"fields? You want ground to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1421.52,"endTime":1425.66,"body":"plant, but you also want to free"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1421.52,"endTime":1425.66,"body":"the ground from shade. Well,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1425.66,"endTime":1431.18,"body":"these older elms, in addition to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1425.66,"endTime":1431.18,"body":"it being many days labor to cut"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1436.55,"body":"down, they had a form that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1431.18,"endTime":1436.55,"body":"lifted the crown. It's so high"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1436.55,"endTime":1441.05,"body":"up that it if you imagine the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1436.55,"endTime":1441.05,"body":"sun going through its diurnal"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1441.08,"endTime":1445.91,"body":"path, it would move that shadow,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1441.08,"endTime":1445.91,"body":"the crown shadow, very rapidly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1445.91,"endTime":1451.37,"body":"through the field. So it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1445.91,"endTime":1451.37,"body":"as much of a problem as you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1451.37,"endTime":1455.57,"body":"would have, say, with a dense"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1451.37,"endTime":1455.57,"body":"oak or maple tree that created"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1455.57,"endTime":1458.78,"body":"an almost permanent pool of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1455.57,"endTime":1458.78,"body":"shade around its base."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1459.41,"endTime":1461.15,"body":"The wood wasn't as"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1459.41,"endTime":1461.15,"body":"valuable either."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1461.18,"endTime":1463.55,"body":"That's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1461.18,"endTime":1463.55,"body":"other thing. The wood was not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1463.55,"endTime":1467.51,"body":"very valuable. So you know, when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1463.55,"endTime":1467.51,"body":"you cut a maple or an oak, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1467.51,"endTime":1472.49,"body":"could get a return on it because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1467.51,"endTime":1472.49,"body":"the wood was sought after. Elm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1472.49,"endTime":1477.02,"body":"wood is very stringy, it's hard"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1472.49,"endTime":1477.02,"body":"to cut. It's got, there are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1477.02,"endTime":1480.29,"body":"certain uses that it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1477.02,"endTime":1480.29,"body":"appropriate for but what I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1480.29,"endTime":1484.13,"body":"getting to here is these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1480.29,"endTime":1484.13,"body":"solitary elms were often left"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1484.13,"endTime":1488.3,"body":"behind. And so they gain a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1484.13,"endTime":1488.3,"body":"presence in the New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1488.36,"endTime":1491.42,"body":"imagination, right? They are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1488.36,"endTime":1491.42,"body":"there. They're magnificent,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1491.42,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"they're beautiful. They have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1491.42,"endTime":1494.78,"body":"this form. And that is the seed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.91,"body":"stock for the later mass"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.91,"body":"planting of this tree. Once we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.81,"body":"get to the period of that we"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1499.91,"endTime":1503.81,"body":"refer to as the village"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1503.81,"endTime":1508.01,"body":"improvement era, the village"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1503.81,"endTime":1508.01,"body":"improvement societies organize."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1508.01,"endTime":1510.56,"body":"And one of the main things they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1508.01,"endTime":1510.56,"body":"do, one of the first things they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1510.56,"endTime":1514.37,"body":"do is plant trees on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1510.56,"endTime":1514.37,"body":"commons, on the streets in their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1514.37,"endTime":1517.64,"body":"towns to beautify them. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1514.37,"endTime":1517.64,"body":"there's a whole set of reasons"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1517.64,"endTime":1521.18,"body":"why they were doing that. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1517.64,"endTime":1521.18,"body":"they look to the American elm as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1521.18,"endTime":1522.83,"body":"their number one tree."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1523.43,"endTime":1527.21,"body":"I thought it was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1523.43,"endTime":1527.21,"body":"fascinating when you wrote"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1527.21,"endTime":1531.62,"body":"about, sort of prior to that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1527.21,"endTime":1531.62,"body":"movement, that the nation was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1531.62,"endTime":1536.12,"body":"essentially, you know, had some"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1531.62,"endTime":1536.12,"body":"insecurities or an inferiority"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1536.15,"endTime":1541.4,"body":"complex with Europe. And we were"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1536.15,"endTime":1541.4,"body":"young nation. And so the fashion"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1541.4,"endTime":1545.39,"body":"was to plant exotics. [Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1541.4,"endTime":1545.39,"body":"right] There was one in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1545.39,"endTime":1549.65,"body":"particular that got planted a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1545.39,"endTime":1549.65,"body":"lot. The Lombardy Poplar."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1549.68,"endTime":1551.99,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1549.68,"endTime":1551.99,"body":"Lombardy Poplar. That's right."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1552.56,"endTime":1556.22,"body":"And so the Lombardy"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1552.56,"endTime":1556.22,"body":"poplar is this very columnar,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1556.25,"endTime":1561.68,"body":"upright tree. [Right] Pointy."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1556.25,"endTime":1561.68,"body":"One associated it with Northern"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1561.71,"endTime":1566.6,"body":"Italy or central Italy, Tuscany,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1561.71,"endTime":1566.6,"body":"[right] and sort of archaic"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1566.6,"endTime":1573.08,"body":"landscapes, ruins, Italian"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1566.6,"endTime":1573.08,"body":"towns, and very strong on the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1573.08,"endTime":1573.41,"body":"eye [laughs]."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1574.04,"endTime":1577.49,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1574.04,"endTime":1577.49,"body":"right, they would plant, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1577.52,"endTime":1585.53,"body":"the Lombardy poplar was a very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1577.52,"endTime":1585.53,"body":"popular tree in the first few"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1585.53,"endTime":1590.84,"body":"decades of the 19th century. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1585.53,"endTime":1590.84,"body":"there are images and etchings"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1590.84,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"and drawings of, for example,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1590.84,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"Pennsylvania Avenue in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.61,"body":"Washington, lined - from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.61,"body":"White House up to the Capitol -"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1598.61,"endTime":1603.98,"body":"lined with Lombardy's. There are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1598.61,"endTime":1603.98,"body":"countless images of towns and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1603.98,"endTime":1608.36,"body":"cities in the Northeast, and you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1603.98,"endTime":1608.36,"body":"see...as you said, it's such a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1608.39,"endTime":1612.05,"body":"distinctive tree. Even an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1608.39,"endTime":1612.05,"body":"amateur painter or artist could"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1612.05,"endTime":1615.44,"body":"get them right. In Boston,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1612.05,"endTime":1615.44,"body":"streets were lined with these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1615.47,"endTime":1615.83,"body":"then."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1616.55,"endTime":1617.96,"body":"And very uniform."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1618.2,"endTime":1621.53,"body":"Yeah, very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1618.2,"endTime":1621.53,"body":"uniform. And there were two main"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1621.53,"endTime":1624.68,"body":"reasons why it became so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1621.53,"endTime":1624.68,"body":"popular. First of all, was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1624.68,"endTime":1627.74,"body":"imagery and the associations,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1624.68,"endTime":1627.74,"body":"right,? They were associated"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1627.74,"endTime":1631.85,"body":"with the storied lands of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1627.74,"endTime":1631.85,"body":"antiquity, right? And this is an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1631.85,"endTime":1636.47,"body":"era when a lot of artists are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1631.85,"endTime":1636.47,"body":"going and studying and painting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1636.5,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"these classical landscapes,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1636.5,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"right? And so there's a certain"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1642.26,"endTime":1645.8,"body":"attraction there. The other"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1642.26,"endTime":1645.8,"body":"reason, quite frankly, and this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1645.8,"endTime":1650.99,"body":"is also why the American elm is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1645.8,"endTime":1650.99,"body":"so embraced, is it is an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1650.99,"endTime":1655.16,"body":"extremely fast growing tree."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1650.99,"endTime":1655.16,"body":"Right? So if you have a place"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1655.16,"endTime":1659.93,"body":"that is as upstart and as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1655.16,"endTime":1659.93,"body":"unkempt and as kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1659.93,"endTime":1665.27,"body":"know, daggy as American towns"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1659.93,"endTime":1665.27,"body":"were and cities were at this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1665.27,"endTime":1667.94,"body":"time, you want something that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1665.27,"endTime":1667.94,"body":"going to bring a modicum of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1667.94,"endTime":1671.6,"body":"beauty quickly, right? You don't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1667.94,"endTime":1671.6,"body":"want to plant you know, a white"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1671.6,"endTime":1675.62,"body":"oak and have to wait a century"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1671.6,"endTime":1675.62,"body":"for it to create some...and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1676.43,"endTime":1681.62,"body":"Lombardy poplar, Jesus, it must"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1676.43,"endTime":1681.62,"body":"grow a foot a day in the summer."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1682.52,"endTime":1688.49,"body":"It doesn't last very long."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1682.52,"endTime":1688.49,"body":"That's the drawback. But there's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1689.06,"endTime":1692.54,"body":"a lot and you know, what happens"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1689.06,"endTime":1692.54,"body":"here is these exotics -and it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1692.54,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"wasn't just the Lombardy."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1692.54,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"Lombardy was a very popular one,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1695.45,"endTime":1699.35,"body":"but another one was Ailanthus"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1695.45,"endTime":1699.35,"body":"altissima, the Tree of Heaven,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1704.81,"body":"which is also a very rapid"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1704.81,"body":"growing tree. It is now on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1705.02,"endTime":1709.55,"body":"countless lists of invasive"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1705.02,"endTime":1709.55,"body":"species. But it's a very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1709.55,"endTime":1712.97,"body":"tenacious tree. It had its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1709.55,"endTime":1712.97,"body":"defenders, even after the you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1712.97,"endTime":1718.85,"body":"know,  the great backlash"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1712.97,"endTime":1718.85,"body":"against exotics, and it still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1718.85,"endTime":1723.56,"body":"has its defenders. I am very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1718.85,"endTime":1723.56,"body":"fond of the Tree of Heaven,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1723.59,"endTime":1726.26,"body":"although some will call it the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1723.59,"endTime":1726.26,"body":"tree of hell."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1726.59,"endTime":1730.43,"body":"So it was brought"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1726.59,"endTime":1730.43,"body":"from China. [Yes] It was valued"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1730.43,"endTime":1735.59,"body":"for its foliage and fast growing"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1730.43,"endTime":1735.59,"body":"[right] and I actually have some"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1735.59,"endTime":1740.36,"body":"close friends who live in a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1735.59,"endTime":1740.36,"body":"house built in 1790 here in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1740.36,"endTime":1744.74,"body":"Providence, and they have an"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1740.36,"endTime":1744.74,"body":"enormous enormous Ailanthus"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1745.1,"endTime":1750.17,"body":"[wow] that frames the house, and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1745.1,"endTime":1750.17,"body":"it's spectacular. Reading this"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1750.17,"endTime":1754.79,"body":"makes me wonder how old that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1750.17,"endTime":1754.79,"body":"tree is. [Yeah] If it dates that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1754.79,"endTime":1755.96,"body":"far back or not?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1755.96,"endTime":1761.99,"body":"It's hard to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1755.96,"endTime":1761.99,"body":"tell. I know of some enormous"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1762.92,"endTime":1766.55,"body":"Ailanthus trees in Brooklyn"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1762.92,"endTime":1766.55,"body":"actually. And you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1766.55,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"tree that was originally brought"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1766.55,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"here to, as part of an ill fated"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1772.22,"endTime":1776.96,"body":"effort to develop a native, an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1772.22,"endTime":1776.96,"body":"American silk industry."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1779.54,"body":"Right, along with"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1779.54,"body":"mulberry too."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1779.6,"endTime":1782.66,"body":"and mulberry"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1779.6,"endTime":1782.66,"body":"right. You know, what happened"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1782.66,"endTime":1788.21,"body":"was the Cynthia moth - the moth,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1782.66,"endTime":1788.21,"body":"the larvae that feed on"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1788.24,"endTime":1792.68,"body":"Ailanthus didn't do very well in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1788.24,"endTime":1792.68,"body":"the climate. Although they are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1796.88,"body":"around. When I was a teenager,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1792.68,"endTime":1796.88,"body":"the very first piece I ever"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1796.88,"endTime":1799.91,"body":"published - essay I ever"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1796.88,"endTime":1799.91,"body":"published was about collecting"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1800.36,"endTime":1806.75,"body":"these the tiny baby larvae,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1800.36,"endTime":1806.75,"body":"immature larvae in an Ailanthus"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1806.75,"endTime":1809.99,"body":"grove along the Belt Parkway in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1806.75,"endTime":1809.99,"body":"Brooklyn and raising these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1809.99,"endTime":1813.71,"body":"moths. But the tree certainly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1809.99,"endTime":1813.71,"body":"has taken off."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1814.07,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"So I just want to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1814.07,"endTime":1817.55,"body":"read one passage from your book"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1817.55,"endTime":1821.81,"body":"that made me laugh out loud just"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1817.55,"endTime":1821.81,"body":"because it was so interesting"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1826.64,"body":"and sort of funny. And back to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1826.64,"body":"the Lombardy Poplar. \"The use of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1826.64,"endTime":1829.97,"body":"the Lombardy poplar in America"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1826.64,"endTime":1829.97,"body":"may have had an even more"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1829.97,"endTime":1834.59,"body":"distinguished pedigree. Samuel"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1829.97,"endTime":1834.59,"body":"Elliott Morrison claimed that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1834.59,"endTime":1838.19,"body":"the tree had been introduced by"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1834.59,"endTime":1838.19,"body":"none other than the classicist,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1838.19,"endTime":1842.12,"body":"Thomas Jefferson. In the early"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1838.19,"endTime":1842.12,"body":"decades of the 19th century, he"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1842.12,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"wrote, it was a sign of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1842.12,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"unterrified democracy in New"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1851.06,"body":"England to plant Lombardy"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1851.06,"body":"poplars. The dendrological badge"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1851.06,"endTime":1856.01,"body":"of Jeffersonian republicanism."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1851.06,"endTime":1856.01,"body":"Of course, the Federalists turn"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1856.01,"endTime":1859.01,"body":"the badge against its"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1856.01,"endTime":1859.01,"body":"benefactor, pointing out that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1859.01,"endTime":1863.21,"body":"the Lombardy's soft, pulpy wood"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1859.01,"endTime":1863.21,"body":"and attraction for worms [Tom"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1863.21,"endTime":1866.3,"body":"laughs] resembled the brain of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1863.21,"endTime":1866.3,"body":"the gentleman who introduced"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1866.3,"endTime":1871.55,"body":"them. [that's funny, yeah] So it"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1866.3,"endTime":1871.55,"body":"becomes this sort of propoganda."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1871.58,"endTime":1873.41,"body":"Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1871.58,"endTime":1873.41,"body":"know, that's a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1878.12,"body":"passage. And, I had forgotten"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1878.12,"body":"about that. You know, what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1878.12,"endTime":1883.07,"body":"happens though with these trees."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1878.12,"endTime":1883.07,"body":"As the young American nation"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1883.19,"endTime":1888.08,"body":"reaches adolescence and begins"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1883.19,"endTime":1888.08,"body":"to, you know, find itself and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1888.11,"endTime":1893.33,"body":"flex its muscles, and becomes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1888.11,"endTime":1893.33,"body":"more confident in itself and its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1893.33,"endTime":1898.61,"body":"culture, there's a huge backlash"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1893.33,"endTime":1898.61,"body":"against the so-called exotics"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1898.61,"endTime":1902.15,"body":"[right], and it can get pretty"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1898.61,"endTime":1902.15,"body":"vehement and even racist at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1902.15,"endTime":1902.93,"body":"times."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1903.32,"endTime":1906.35,"body":"Yeah, and you mentioned that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1903.32,"endTime":1906.35,"body":"particularly about the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1906.35,"endTime":1909.02,"body":"Ailanthus. [Right] Could you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1906.35,"endTime":1909.02,"body":"describe..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1915.14,"body":"Well, the Ailanthus, as anyone"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1915.14,"body":"who's struggled with it in their"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1915.14,"endTime":1921.17,"body":"garden will know or will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1915.14,"endTime":1921.17,"body":"recognize, it rapidly spreads by"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1921.2,"endTime":1925.22,"body":"roots, you know, it sends out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1921.2,"endTime":1925.22,"body":"roots and it sprouts from the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1925.22,"endTime":1926.06,"body":"roots, there's a term..."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1926.06,"endTime":1928.46,"body":"This is the tree"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1926.06,"endTime":1928.46,"body":"along train tracks, in empty"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1928.46,"endTime":1931.07,"body":"lots, and it's the \"Tree That"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":1928.46,"endTime":1931.07,"body":"Grows in Brooklyn.\""},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1931.16,"endTime":1932.42,"body":"It's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1931.16,"endTime":1932.42,"body":"\"Tree That Grows in Brooklyn,\""},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1932.45,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"exactly. It's a very tenacious"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1932.45,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"tree. It spreads very rapidly,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1943.55,"body":"both by seed but also by its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1943.55,"body":"root system, and so once it gets"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1943.55,"endTime":1948.41,"body":"established, it's pretty hard to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1943.55,"endTime":1948.41,"body":"fight back. It's reminiscent of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1948.41,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"the more recent arrival here"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1948.41,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"from Asia, the Japanese"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1956.75,"body":"knotweed, which boy, you get"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1956.75,"body":"that going, you really you need"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1956.75,"endTime":1962.6,"body":"a backhoe to excavate it out."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1956.75,"endTime":1962.6,"body":"[yeah] So what happens here is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1962.6,"endTime":1969.68,"body":"there's... as Americans"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1962.6,"endTime":1969.68,"body":"discover, their... as they gain"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1969.68,"endTime":1974.18,"body":"confidence, they start looking"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1969.68,"endTime":1974.18,"body":"to the native trees, right, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1974.21,"endTime":1978.29,"body":"trees of the American forest and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1974.21,"endTime":1978.29,"body":"saying, \"Why don't we plant"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1978.29,"endTime":1981.56,"body":"these trees?\" There's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1978.29,"endTime":1981.56,"body":"nativist, there's a very strong"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1981.56,"endTime":1985.64,"body":"nativist element, [nationalism]"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1981.56,"endTime":1985.64,"body":"native plant movement. It's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1985.64,"endTime":1991.43,"body":"very nationalistic, nativist,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1985.64,"endTime":1991.43,"body":"and even racist embrace of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1991.55,"endTime":1995.72,"body":"American trees, right? We don't"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1991.55,"endTime":1995.72,"body":"want the the foreigner. And what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1995.72,"endTime":2000.97,"body":"happens is that the Ailanthus in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":1995.72,"endTime":2000.97,"body":"particular gets painted in very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2000.97,"endTime":2004.81,"body":"racist terms, that it's this,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2000.97,"endTime":2004.81,"body":"you know... I think the early"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2004.81,"endTime":2009.52,"body":"and pioneering horticulturist"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2004.81,"endTime":2009.52,"body":"and landscape designer Andrew"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2009.52,"endTime":2014.83,"body":"Jackson Downing is infamous for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2009.52,"endTime":2014.83,"body":"this because he refers to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2014.86,"endTime":2020.14,"body":"Ailanthus as I think he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2014.86,"endTime":2020.14,"body":"describes it as a wily Asiatic,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2020.2,"endTime":2026.08,"body":"right, whose intermeddling roots"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2020.2,"endTime":2026.08,"body":"are threatening our American"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2026.08,"endTime":2029.35,"body":"democracy or our American"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2026.08,"endTime":2029.35,"body":"republic. I'm paraphrasing a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2029.35,"endTime":2037.0,"body":"little. He quite vociferously"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2029.35,"endTime":2037.0,"body":"advocates it's purging of this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2037.15,"endTime":2042.73,"body":"tree, right. And so this maps to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2037.15,"endTime":2042.73,"body":"political movements at the time"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2042.73,"endTime":2048.52,"body":"to ban immigration from China"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2042.73,"endTime":2048.52,"body":"and from elsewhere in Asia. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2048.52,"endTime":2053.89,"body":"this is when you really have the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2048.52,"endTime":2053.89,"body":"the wholesale embrace of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2053.89,"endTime":2059.47,"body":"American tree species, including"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2053.89,"endTime":2059.47,"body":"and primarily the American Elm,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2059.47,"endTime":2062.59,"body":"at least in the northeastern"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2059.47,"endTime":2062.59,"body":"part of New England."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2062.949,"endTime":2068.769,"body":"So in the 1830s and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2062.949,"endTime":2068.769,"body":"1840s, this sort of movement to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2068.769,"endTime":2072.099,"body":"plant native trees, especially"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2068.769,"endTime":2072.099,"body":"the elm, takes off. [Yep]"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2072.579,"endTime":2078.039,"body":"There's this \"Tree Bee\" in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2072.579,"endTime":2078.039,"body":"Sheffield, Massachusetts. [Yeah]"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2078.669,"endTime":2079.779,"body":"What's the \"Tree Bee?\""},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2080.17,"endTime":2083.242,"body":"Well, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2080.17,"endTime":2083.242,"body":"know what's going on in rural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2083.32,"endTime":2087.653,"body":"New England at this time is a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2083.32,"endTime":2087.653,"body":"really difficult passage,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2087.731,"endTime":2092.536,"body":"actually, for the residents and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2087.731,"endTime":2092.536,"body":"these communities. These were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2092.615,"endTime":2096.711,"body":"very successful farming"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2092.615,"endTime":2096.711,"body":"communities. They were quite"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2096.79,"endTime":2100.965,"body":"affluent in many cases. And all"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2096.79,"endTime":2100.965,"body":"of a sudden the rural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2101.044,"endTime":2106.006,"body":"agricultural economy goes into a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2101.044,"endTime":2106.006,"body":"very steep decline. And these,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2106.085,"endTime":2110.654,"body":"you know, the local leadership,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2106.085,"endTime":2110.654,"body":"the elected officials, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2110.732,"endTime":2114.907,"body":"elders of these towns are"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2110.732,"endTime":2114.907,"body":"struggling to both keep the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2114.986,"endTime":2119.791,"body":"young people from leaving, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2114.986,"endTime":2119.791,"body":"also they recognize over time,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2119.87,"endTime":2124.832,"body":"and this is more in the in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2119.87,"endTime":2124.832,"body":"second half of the 19th century,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2124.911,"endTime":2129.795,"body":"that affluent successful folks"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2124.911,"endTime":2129.795,"body":"who grew up in these towns grew"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2129.873,"endTime":2134.993,"body":"up in rural New England and then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2129.873,"endTime":2134.993,"body":"went and found their fortunes in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2135.072,"endTime":2139.956,"body":"the Hartfords and the Bostons"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2135.072,"endTime":2139.956,"body":"and the Springfields and the New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2140.035,"endTime":2144.997,"body":"York Cities. They want to come"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2140.035,"endTime":2144.997,"body":"back to their roots. And there's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2145.076,"endTime":2149.566,"body":"the beginnings of summer"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2145.076,"endTime":2149.566,"body":"vacationing and tourism in these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2149.645,"endTime":2154.528,"body":"places. So if you combine these,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2149.645,"endTime":2154.528,"body":"the feeling was we had better"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2154.607,"endTime":2159.176,"body":"make these very beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2154.607,"endTime":2159.176,"body":"picturesque, attractive places."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2159.255,"endTime":2163.981,"body":"And you know, when you stir into"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2159.255,"endTime":2163.981,"body":"this mix the iconography of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2164.06,"endTime":2169.022,"body":"Currier and Ives, for example."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2164.06,"endTime":2169.022,"body":"The elm tossed New England green"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2169.101,"endTime":2173.748,"body":"and common with its church and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2169.101,"endTime":2173.748,"body":"meetinghouse steeples - that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2173.827,"endTime":2178.475,"body":"becomes something people expect,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2173.827,"endTime":2178.475,"body":"right? That's what they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2178.553,"endTime":2183.673,"body":"looking for and that's what they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2178.553,"endTime":2183.673,"body":"want. And many, many New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2183.752,"endTime":2188.478,"body":"towns didn't have that. There"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2183.752,"endTime":2188.478,"body":"were plenty of towns where the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2188.557,"endTime":2193.441,"body":"common was just a scruffy field,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2188.557,"endTime":2193.441,"body":"right? It had no elms. And so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2193.52,"endTime":2198.01,"body":"what happens is there's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2193.52,"endTime":2198.01,"body":"movement throughout - it starts"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2198.088,"endTime":2203.051,"body":"in the Berkshires and in Western"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2198.088,"endTime":2203.051,"body":"Massachusetts and Connecticut,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2203.13,"endTime":2206.989,"body":"and it spreads throughout New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2203.13,"endTime":2206.989,"body":"England. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2207.068,"endTime":2211.479,"body":"beautification movement. It's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2207.068,"endTime":2211.479,"body":"usually referred to as the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2211.558,"endTime":2216.127,"body":"Village Improvement Movement."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2211.558,"endTime":2216.127,"body":"And there were these village"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2216.205,"endTime":2220.853,"body":"improvement societies founded,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2216.205,"endTime":2220.853,"body":"and that spreads to New York"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2220.932,"endTime":2225.579,"body":"too. I should say that the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2220.932,"endTime":2225.579,"body":"reason for the sudden decline in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2225.658,"endTime":2230.305,"body":"the agricultural economy, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2225.658,"endTime":2230.305,"body":"rural economy of New England,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2230.384,"endTime":2234.953,"body":"had everything to do with a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2230.384,"endTime":2234.953,"body":"piece of major infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2235.032,"endTime":2239.836,"body":"transportation infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2235.032,"endTime":2239.836,"body":"that is developed in New York,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2239.915,"endTime":2244.799,"body":"and that's the Erie Canal. What"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2239.915,"endTime":2244.799,"body":"the Erie Canal did, much like,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2244.878,"endTime":2249.919,"body":"you know, you can imagine it as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2244.878,"endTime":2249.919,"body":"a major interstate, for example."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2249.998,"endTime":2254.645,"body":"And in fact, the New York State"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2249.998,"endTime":2254.645,"body":"Thruway follows one hundred"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2254.724,"endTime":2259.371,"body":"years later or more, the exact"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2254.724,"endTime":2259.371,"body":"route of the Erie Canal. The"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2259.45,"endTime":2264.255,"body":"Erie Canal put New York City and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2259.45,"endTime":2264.255,"body":"the Port of New York in very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2264.334,"endTime":2268.824,"body":"close and easy touch to some of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2264.334,"endTime":2268.824,"body":"the enormously productive"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2268.903,"endTime":2273.865,"body":"enormously fertile farmland in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2268.903,"endTime":2273.865,"body":"upstate New York, right? So what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2273.944,"endTime":2278.119,"body":"happens is New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2273.944,"endTime":2278.119,"body":"agriculture is kind of cut out"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2278.198,"endTime":2282.766,"body":"of the loop. Farming in New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2278.198,"endTime":2282.766,"body":"England was never easy, right?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2282.845,"endTime":2287.65,"body":"You've got a very, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2282.845,"endTime":2287.65,"body":"very dramatic climate, very cold"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2287.729,"endTime":2292.849,"body":"long winters, the soils are very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2287.729,"endTime":2292.849,"body":"stony. So here now is this very,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2292.928,"endTime":2297.733,"body":"you know, productive farmland"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2292.928,"endTime":2297.733,"body":"that's within easy reach of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2297.811,"endTime":2302.537,"body":"greatest port on the Eastern"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2297.811,"endTime":2302.537,"body":"Seaboard. So that is the reason"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2302.616,"endTime":2307.5,"body":"why these towns go into decline."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2302.616,"endTime":2307.5,"body":"So the village improvers, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2307.579,"endTime":2312.699,"body":"first and most significant thing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2307.579,"endTime":2312.699,"body":"they do, project they undertake,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2312.778,"endTime":2317.189,"body":"is the planting of these elm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2312.778,"endTime":2317.189,"body":"trees. And and that is what"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2317.268,"endTime":2321.994,"body":"leads to the Tree Bee. The Tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2317.268,"endTime":2321.994,"body":"Bee was the earliest example"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2322.072,"endTime":2326.562,"body":"that I've come across of a mass"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2322.072,"endTime":2326.562,"body":"planting effort, right so"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2326.641,"endTime":2331.131,"body":"everybody in the town of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2326.641,"endTime":2331.131,"body":"Sheffield gets together and they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2331.21,"endTime":2335.621,"body":"plant dozens if not scores"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2331.21,"endTime":2335.621,"body":"[thousands] yeah, hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2335.7,"endTime":2340.82,"body":"elm saplings and whips. And over"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2335.7,"endTime":2340.82,"body":"time, Sheffield becomes renowned"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2340.899,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"for its beautiful elm lined"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2340.899,"endTime":2344.68,"body":"streets and commons."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2344.83,"endTime":2349.51,"body":"There was an"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2344.83,"endTime":2349.51,"body":"intellectual meeting place in"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2349.51,"endTime":2353.59,"body":"Western Mass that involved the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2349.51,"endTime":2353.59,"body":"sketch club, I read about the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2353.59,"endTime":2358.33,"body":"sketch club. And that is William"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2353.59,"endTime":2358.33,"body":"Cullen Bryant? ho's in the"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":2358.33,"endTime":2359.02,"body":"sketch club?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2359.83,"endTime":2362.74,"body":"The sketch"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2359.83,"endTime":2362.74,"body":"club as I recall, it was a group"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2362.74,"endTime":2367.42,"body":"of you know, it was a literary"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2362.74,"endTime":2367.42,"body":"group and artists who... and I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2367.42,"endTime":2372.52,"body":"talk about it because there was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2367.42,"endTime":2372.52,"body":"a certain connection there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2372.52,"endTime":2377.47,"body":"between this village improvement"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2372.52,"endTime":2377.47,"body":"movement and the embrace of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2377.47,"endTime":2382.0,"body":"elm in western Massachusetts and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2377.47,"endTime":2382.0,"body":"the Berkshires, and the literary"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2382.0,"endTime":2388.72,"body":"scene in New York City. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2382.0,"endTime":2388.72,"body":"there's a connection there to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2388.75,"endTime":2395.74,"body":"the larger emerging society or"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2388.75,"endTime":2395.74,"body":"culture of the of the United"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2395.74,"endTime":2397.57,"body":"States and New York."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2397.87,"endTime":2401.32,"body":"And its artists too,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2397.87,"endTime":2401.32,"body":"right? The Hudson River School"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2401.32,"endTime":2403.45,"body":"and Emerson..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2403.75,"endTime":2408.28,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2403.75,"endTime":2408.28,"body":"describe it as the environmental"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2408.28,"endTime":2414.61,"body":"awakening. There's this movement"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2408.28,"endTime":2414.61,"body":"that emerges in this period. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2414.61,"endTime":2419.05,"body":"the village improvement movement"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2414.61,"endTime":2419.05,"body":"is a good example of one of its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2419.05,"endTime":2424.33,"body":"expressions, right? There's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2419.05,"endTime":2424.33,"body":"sense that prior to the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2424.36,"endTime":2428.62,"body":"environmental awakening, nature"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2424.36,"endTime":2428.62,"body":"was a resource to be exploited."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2429.19,"endTime":2432.22,"body":"Right. And it's the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2429.19,"endTime":2432.22,"body":"environmental awakening that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2432.25,"endTime":2438.49,"body":"that it's very much rooted in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2432.25,"endTime":2438.49,"body":"romanticism coming from France"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2438.49,"endTime":2442.63,"body":"and elsewhere in the old world."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2438.49,"endTime":2442.63,"body":"But it's a whole new attitude"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2443.92,"endTime":2447.22,"body":"about the natural world and one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2443.92,"endTime":2447.22,"body":"that is much more about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2447.79,"endTime":2454.93,"body":"respecting and admiring and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2447.79,"endTime":2454.93,"body":"nurturing the values therein"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2455.23,"endTime":2459.97,"body":"instead of just an exploitative"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2455.23,"endTime":2459.97,"body":"stance. And this is, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2460.03,"endTime":2464.23,"body":"transcendentalists come out of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2460.03,"endTime":2464.23,"body":"this larger milieu. The Hudson"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2464.23,"endTime":2467.92,"body":"River School of painters of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2464.23,"endTime":2467.92,"body":"landscape painting comes out of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2467.92,"endTime":2472.18,"body":"this milieu and in a more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2467.92,"endTime":2472.18,"body":"quotidian, prosaic way you've"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2472.18,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"got the village improvers."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2472.18,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"Andrew Jackson Downey is also"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2480.19,"body":"part of this, he's writing about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2480.19,"body":"the improvement of one's home"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2480.19,"endTime":2488.32,"body":"grounds, right, and this whole,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2480.19,"endTime":2488.32,"body":"this new yearning for spatial"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2488.32,"endTime":2492.76,"body":"beauty as I think John Stilgoe,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2488.32,"endTime":2492.76,"body":"the landscape historian at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2492.76,"endTime":2493.72,"body":"Harvard put it."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2494.38,"endTime":2497.86,"body":"So back to Thoreau,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2494.38,"endTime":2497.86,"body":"he came just after this, or was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2497.86,"endTime":2499.57,"body":"he part of it?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2499.69,"endTime":2502.0,"body":"He's a core"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2499.69,"endTime":2502.0,"body":"member, you know, part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2502.0,"endTime":2504.61,"body":"transcendentalist movement."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2502.0,"endTime":2504.61,"body":"That's right. I don't think he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2504.61,"endTime":2505.78,"body":"was in the sketch club."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2506.92,"endTime":2508.87,"body":"But he was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2506.92,"endTime":2508.87,"body":"definitely influenced by them"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2508.87,"endTime":2510.46,"body":"and knew Emerson, obviously."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2510.52,"endTime":2513.25,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2510.52,"endTime":2513.25,"body":"William Cullen Bryant is a major"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2513.25,"endTime":2517.81,"body":"part of this embrace of nature"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2513.25,"endTime":2517.81,"body":"and the natural world. There's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2517.81,"endTime":2524.05,"body":"also a nationalistic dimension"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2517.81,"endTime":2524.05,"body":"here. Because, you know,  and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2524.05,"endTime":2529.03,"body":"Downing writes about this, too."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2524.05,"endTime":2529.03,"body":"There's this sense, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2529.03,"endTime":2533.47,"body":"mentioned earlier that Americans"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2529.03,"endTime":2533.47,"body":"in the early republic and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2533.47,"endTime":2537.97,"body":"early 19th century had this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2533.47,"endTime":2537.97,"body":"cultural inferiority complex,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2538.21,"endTime":2542.53,"body":"where anything of any value,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2538.21,"endTime":2542.53,"body":"right, artistic, literary, had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2542.53,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"to come from the old world,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2542.53,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"right? Anything created,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2550.18,"body":"written, thought of here really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2550.18,"body":"didn't have much gravitas"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2550.18,"endTime":2554.08,"body":"because it was an upstart"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2550.18,"endTime":2554.08,"body":"nation. That starts changing, it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2554.08,"endTime":2556.54,"body":"starts changing in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2554.08,"endTime":2556.54,"body":"Jacksonian period. And by the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2556.54,"endTime":2561.31,"body":"time you get to the mid middle"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2556.54,"endTime":2561.31,"body":"years of the 19th century, it's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2561.31,"endTime":2568.45,"body":"not just expressed in an embrace"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2561.31,"endTime":2568.45,"body":"of native trees, but a stance"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2568.45,"endTime":2572.92,"body":"that looks to the natural world,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2568.45,"endTime":2572.92,"body":"right, and the extraordinary"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2572.92,"endTime":2576.25,"body":"heritage of North America and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2572.92,"endTime":2576.25,"body":"the natural heritage. Niagara"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2576.25,"endTime":2582.34,"body":"Falls, the Grand Canyon, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2576.25,"endTime":2582.34,"body":"Shenandoahs and the Blue Ridge"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2582.34,"endTime":2586.42,"body":"Mountains, the Adirondacks."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2582.34,"endTime":2586.42,"body":"Americans start looking to that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2586.42,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"as the equivalent, right, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2586.42,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"more, of the cultural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2594.13,"endTime":2597.01,"body":"achievements of the old world."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2594.13,"endTime":2597.01,"body":"So the old world has its"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2601.81,"body":"Parthenon, its Pantheon. It's,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2597.01,"endTime":2601.81,"body":"you know, it's extraordinary"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2601.96,"endTime":2607.78,"body":"architectural heritage and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2601.96,"endTime":2607.78,"body":"ruins of the Roman era and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2607.78,"endTime":2612.67,"body":"medieval landscapes of northern"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2607.78,"endTime":2612.67,"body":"Europe. And Americans say, well,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2612.67,"endTime":2617.35,"body":"that's great, you have all that,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2612.67,"endTime":2617.35,"body":"but we have these, these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2617.38,"endTime":2622.45,"body":"extraordinary places, these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2617.38,"endTime":2622.45,"body":"extraordinary natural monuments"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2622.63,"endTime":2626.08,"body":"that are directly from the hand"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2622.63,"endTime":2626.08,"body":"of the Creator. So they're"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2626.08,"endTime":2630.01,"body":"saying, Ah, we were one upping,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2626.08,"endTime":2630.01,"body":"because this is nature's nation."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2630.01,"endTime":2634.57,"body":"This is a place uniquely blessed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2630.01,"endTime":2634.57,"body":"by God."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2634.66,"endTime":2637.09,"body":"And Thoreau's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2634.66,"endTime":2637.09,"body":"responding to that. When we"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2637.27,"endTime":2641.38,"body":"remove, when we cut down al our"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2637.27,"endTime":2641.38,"body":"forests, we're sort of abusing"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2641.38,"endTime":2641.77,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2641.83,"endTime":2644.23,"body":"Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2641.83,"endTime":2644.23,"body":"exactly. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2644.32,"endTime":2649.21,"body":"So, it's the 1850s,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2644.32,"endTime":2649.21,"body":"and the Civil War is about to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2649.24,"endTime":2653.53,"body":"happen and the abolitionist"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2649.24,"endTime":2653.53,"body":"movement is tearing the country"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2653.53,"endTime":2657.7,"body":"apart, essentially. And he uses"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2653.53,"endTime":2657.7,"body":"elm trees - I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2657.7,"endTime":2661.78,"body":"specifically the elm tree that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2657.7,"endTime":2661.78,"body":"we're talking about - as a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2661.78,"endTime":2665.23,"body":"metaphor for the abolitionist"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2661.78,"endTime":2665.23,"body":"movement. [Yeah] and the Free"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2665.23,"endTime":2667.75,"body":"Soil Party. Could you talk about"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2665.23,"endTime":2667.75,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2667.78,"endTime":2670.51,"body":"Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2667.78,"endTime":2670.51,"body":"know, the details of this will"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2670.51,"endTime":2677.17,"body":"escape me but he uses the elm as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2670.51,"endTime":2677.17,"body":"a symbol of the...well, this is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2677.17,"endTime":2681.91,"body":"a period when there's this, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2677.17,"endTime":2681.91,"body":"free soilers, and there's this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2682.39,"endTime":2687.04,"body":"struggle over whether, not not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2682.39,"endTime":2687.04,"body":"only the the Fugitive Slave Act,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2687.04,"endTime":2694.0,"body":"which basically criminalized"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2687.04,"endTime":2694.0,"body":"anyone who assisted a slave"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2694.0,"endTime":2699.34,"body":"escaping the South, but there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2694.0,"endTime":2699.34,"body":"was a fight over whether slavery"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2699.34,"endTime":2701.02,"body":"should be extended West."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2701.05,"endTime":2704.77,"body":"Right, and the Free"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2701.05,"endTime":2704.77,"body":"Soil Party is in response to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2704.77,"endTime":2705.13,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2705.28,"endTime":2708.67,"body":"Exactly"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2705.28,"endTime":2708.67,"body":"right. He's very facile in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2709.12,"endTime":2713.74,"body":"adapting the metaphor of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2709.12,"endTime":2713.74,"body":"American Elm and these trees to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2713.74,"endTime":2716.68,"body":"various political issues of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2713.74,"endTime":2716.68,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2716.86,"endTime":2718.96,"body":"Could I could I read"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2716.86,"endTime":2718.96,"body":"you a passage from your book,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2718.96,"endTime":2724.09,"body":"and read for our listeners, that"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2718.96,"endTime":2724.09,"body":"is. \"'The elms,' writes Thoreau,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2724.12,"endTime":2727.78,"body":"'are Free Soilers in their own"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2724.12,"endTime":2727.78,"body":"broad sense. They send their"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2727.78,"endTime":2731.08,"body":"roots north and south and east"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2727.78,"endTime":2731.08,"body":"and west into many a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2731.08,"endTime":2735.04,"body":"conservative's, Kansas and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2731.08,"endTime":2735.04,"body":"Carolina who does not suspect"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2735.07,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"such underground railroads. They"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2735.07,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"improve the subsoil, he has"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2739.21,"endTime":2742.99,"body":"never disturbed, and many times"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2739.21,"endTime":2742.99,"body":"their length, if support of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2742.99,"endTime":2746.56,"body":"their principles requires it."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2742.99,"endTime":2746.56,"body":"They battle with a tempest of a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2746.56,"endTime":2751.36,"body":"century. See what scars they"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2746.56,"endTime":2751.36,"body":"bear, what limbs they they've"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2751.36,"endTime":2755.56,"body":"lost before we were born, yet"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2751.36,"endTime":2755.56,"body":"they never adjourn. They"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2755.56,"endTime":2758.47,"body":"steadily vote for their"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2755.56,"endTime":2758.47,"body":"principles, and send their roots"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2758.47,"endTime":2762.46,"body":"further and wider from the same"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2758.47,"endTime":2762.46,"body":"center. They die at their posts,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2762.46,"endTime":2764.86,"body":"and they leave a tough butt for"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2762.46,"endTime":2764.86,"body":"the choppers [Tom laughs]  to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2764.86,"endTime":2769.0,"body":"exercise themselves about, and a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2764.86,"endTime":2769.0,"body":"stump, which serves for their"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2769.0,"endTime":2769.57,"body":"monument.'\""},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2769.6,"endTime":2772.81,"body":"That's such"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2769.6,"endTime":2772.81,"body":"an extraordinary passage and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2772.84,"endTime":2778.0,"body":"beaut...I mean, he wrote like an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2772.84,"endTime":2778.0,"body":"angel. But it's such a powerful"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2778.0,"endTime":2783.76,"body":"metaphor for this, the values"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2778.0,"endTime":2783.76,"body":"and the principles of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2783.76,"endTime":2787.27,"body":"abolition abolitionists and the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2783.76,"endTime":2787.27,"body":"abolitionist movement."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2787.54,"endTime":2790.66,"body":"There's another"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2787.54,"endTime":2790.66,"body":"sort... he extends the metaphor"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2790.66,"endTime":2795.55,"body":"in this beautiful way, and talks"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2790.66,"endTime":2795.55,"body":"about how the center of the elm"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2795.55,"endTime":2800.2,"body":"may decay, but the growth is"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2795.55,"endTime":2800.2,"body":"really in the rings of the tree"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2800.2,"endTime":2804.85,"body":"in the cambium under the bark,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2800.2,"endTime":2804.85,"body":"and that is new."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2805.42,"endTime":2808.03,"body":"Right, yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2805.42,"endTime":2808.03,"body":"And I think he's talking, he's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2808.03,"endTime":2812.8,"body":"referring to the renewal of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2808.03,"endTime":2812.8,"body":"movement and the passage or the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2812.8,"endTime":2815.86,"body":"passing on of these principles"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2812.8,"endTime":2815.86,"body":"and values to a younger"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2815.86,"endTime":2816.7,"body":"generation."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2817.09,"endTime":2819.97,"body":"So what you write"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2817.09,"endTime":2819.97,"body":"sort of along those lines, you"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2819.97,"endTime":2823.93,"body":"know, we talked about trees"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2819.97,"endTime":2823.93,"body":"being witness trees to the past,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2823.93,"endTime":2827.29,"body":"and how they were in the same"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2823.93,"endTime":2827.29,"body":"place that many historic events"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2827.29,"endTime":2831.58,"body":"happen, and important people"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2827.29,"endTime":2831.58,"body":"were, and they sort of draw our"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2831.58,"endTime":2838.12,"body":"memory back. But you wrote just"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2831.58,"endTime":2838.12,"body":"that the trees over time, put on"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2838.15,"endTime":2841.36,"body":"new rings of growth, and it's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2838.15,"endTime":2841.36,"body":"not really the same tree it was"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2841.36,"endTime":2845.14,"body":"in the past, and that each sort"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2841.36,"endTime":2845.14,"body":"of generation after that gets to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2845.14,"endTime":2848.92,"body":"experience the tree in its own"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2845.14,"endTime":2848.92,"body":"way, and add their own history"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2848.92,"endTime":2849.37,"body":"to it."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2849.4,"endTime":2853.66,"body":"So in many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2849.4,"endTime":2853.66,"body":"New England towns and cities,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2854.35,"endTime":2859.06,"body":"these so called ...and in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2854.35,"endTime":2859.06,"body":"rural landscape too...these"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2859.06,"endTime":2863.29,"body":"these solitary elms, and they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2859.06,"endTime":2863.29,"body":"were mostly elms, but not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2863.29,"endTime":2867.13,"body":"always, right. There are witness"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2863.29,"endTime":2867.13,"body":"oaks, there are other trees, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2867.28,"endTime":2871.9,"body":"it's almost it's more common"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2867.28,"endTime":2871.9,"body":"that these witness trees were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2871.9,"endTime":2877.45,"body":"American elms. And they tend to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2871.9,"endTime":2877.45,"body":"be elms of substantial size and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2877.99,"endTime":2882.7,"body":"beauty and form. And one of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2877.99,"endTime":2882.7,"body":"things I discovered was that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2882.7,"endTime":2887.59,"body":"there they tended to draw to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2882.7,"endTime":2887.59,"body":"them historical events that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2887.8,"endTime":2892.27,"body":"occurred in the general area,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2887.8,"endTime":2892.27,"body":"but not necessarily right there."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2892.6,"endTime":2898.66,"body":"And over time, they come to be"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2892.6,"endTime":2898.66,"body":"representative of the event and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2898.69,"endTime":2901.09,"body":"in that location. But in most"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2898.69,"endTime":2901.09,"body":"cases,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2902.26,"endTime":2904.42,"body":"Not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":2902.26,"endTime":2904.42,"body":"right under that tree,."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2904.42,"endTime":2906.52,"body":"No, not"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2904.42,"endTime":2906.52,"body":"necessarily right under there."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2906.52,"endTime":2909.7,"body":"So there's this remarkable...and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2906.52,"endTime":2909.7,"body":"this taps into what I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2909.7,"endTime":2911.83,"body":"talking about what we were"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2909.7,"endTime":2911.83,"body":"talking about earlier about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2912.64,"endTime":2918.37,"body":"nature's Nation versus the the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2912.64,"endTime":2918.37,"body":"you know, the stones of the old"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2918.37,"endTime":2923.62,"body":"world, right, the ruins the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2918.37,"endTime":2923.62,"body":"architectural ruins. So what is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2923.62,"endTime":2927.64,"body":"a more appropriate monument for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2923.62,"endTime":2927.64,"body":"this young nation? Is it the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2927.64,"endTime":2934.15,"body":"marble, you know, the marble"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2927.64,"endTime":2934.15,"body":"obelisk? Or is it a great old"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2934.15,"endTime":2939.13,"body":"tree and reputed remnant of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2934.15,"endTime":2939.13,"body":"original forest? And very few of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2939.13,"endTime":2943.75,"body":"these trees were remnants of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2939.13,"endTime":2943.75,"body":"Aboriginal forest, as was often"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2944.17,"endTime":2948.28,"body":"said. There was a witness tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2944.17,"endTime":2948.28,"body":"on the Boston Common, for"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2948.28,"endTime":2952.42,"body":"example, where all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2948.28,"endTime":2952.42,"body":"associations were sort of tied"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2952.42,"endTime":2957.04,"body":"to, and it was the Great Elm and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2952.42,"endTime":2957.04,"body":"that was what it was called the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2957.04,"endTime":2960.94,"body":"Great Elm of Boston Common. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2957.04,"endTime":2960.94,"body":"in the book, you probably saw"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2960.94,"endTime":2963.82,"body":"this this this remarkable"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2960.94,"endTime":2963.82,"body":"photograph of all the Methodist"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2963.82,"endTime":2968.23,"body":"ministers of New England"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2963.82,"endTime":2968.23,"body":"gathered for a meeting. And they"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2968.26,"endTime":2971.11,"body":"were did they gather not in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2968.26,"endTime":2971.11,"body":"front of Methodist Church?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2971.41,"endTime":2976.48,"body":"Right, but under this great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2971.41,"endTime":2976.48,"body":"witness tree. Another example is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2976.48,"endTime":2979.96,"body":"the Washington elm which I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2976.48,"endTime":2979.96,"body":"mentioned earlier in Cambridge,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2979.96,"endTime":2984.37,"body":"which was said to be where"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2979.96,"endTime":2984.37,"body":"Washington you know, he stood"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2984.37,"endTime":2988.72,"body":"under this great elm when he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2984.37,"endTime":2988.72,"body":"took command of the continental"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2988.72,"endTime":2991.81,"body":"troops at the outset of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2988.72,"endTime":2991.81,"body":"revolution. Well, when the tree"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2991.81,"endTime":2996.1,"body":"finally came down, which by the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2991.81,"endTime":2996.1,"body":"way was was blamed on communists"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2997.33,"endTime":3002.82,"body":"that they had somehow sabotage"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":2997.33,"endTime":3002.82,"body":"the tree. The rings were counted"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3002.82,"endTime":3008.25,"body":"and alas, if Washington took"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3002.82,"endTime":3008.25,"body":"command of the troops under this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3008.25,"endTime":3010.62,"body":"tree, he would have been"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3008.25,"endTime":3010.62,"body":"crouching below [a small tree] a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3010.62,"endTime":3011.85,"body":"little sapling, yeah."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3011.85,"endTime":3016.53,"body":"There's something"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3011.85,"endTime":3016.53,"body":"about this being a living thing"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3016.53,"endTime":3019.47,"body":"that was alive at that time"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3016.53,"endTime":3019.47,"body":"[yes] it's alive now. And it's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3019.53,"endTime":3022.71,"body":"somewhat different than a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3019.53,"endTime":3022.71,"body":"building. The buildings are"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3022.71,"endTime":3024.57,"body":"there. [exactly] But we don't"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3022.71,"endTime":3024.57,"body":"venerate the buildings in the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3024.57,"endTime":3025.41,"body":"same way."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3025.98,"endTime":3030.69,"body":"We do now, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3025.98,"endTime":3030.69,"body":"think we do now, but yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3030.69,"endTime":3034.35,"body":"fact that this was a living"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3030.69,"endTime":3034.35,"body":"being, right? That this was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3034.35,"endTime":3038.97,"body":"living entity that witnessed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3034.35,"endTime":3038.97,"body":"this passage, and it literally"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3039.06,"endTime":3045.66,"body":"puts you into this continuum,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3039.06,"endTime":3045.66,"body":"right? Instead of an inertness"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3045.66,"endTime":3049.32,"body":"that a building or a symbol of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3045.66,"endTime":3049.32,"body":"stone or monument would do."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3049.59,"endTime":3052.68,"body":"It's a powerful"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3049.59,"endTime":3052.68,"body":"thought. This seems to be just a"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3052.68,"endTime":3059.28,"body":"very human reaction to all"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3052.68,"endTime":3059.28,"body":"trees, across cultures over"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3059.28,"endTime":3062.07,"body":"time, and I'm wondering..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3062.1,"endTime":3064.8,"body":"Well, there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3062.1,"endTime":3064.8,"body":"are many cultures where you have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3064.86,"endTime":3070.56,"body":"a tree, often of a particular"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3064.86,"endTime":3070.56,"body":"species, that plays a role, a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3070.56,"endTime":3076.38,"body":"sacred role, or, a quasi-sacred"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3070.56,"endTime":3076.38,"body":"role. The Bow tree, the Ceiba"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3076.38,"endTime":3081.36,"body":"tree in Central and Latin"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3076.38,"endTime":3081.36,"body":"America, the Bow tree in parts"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3081.36,"endTime":3085.53,"body":"of Asia. The American elm, I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3081.36,"endTime":3085.53,"body":"would say, it was the closest"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3085.53,"endTime":3091.14,"body":"thing we've had in our country"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3085.53,"endTime":3091.14,"body":"to a sacred tree. And often very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3091.14,"endTime":3094.41,"body":"much in a religious dimension,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3091.14,"endTime":3094.41,"body":"as I said earlier, when you have"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3094.41,"endTime":3098.58,"body":"this notion of the the unhewn,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3094.41,"endTime":3098.58,"body":"cathedrals, right? The best"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3098.58,"endTime":3102.27,"body":"example of that, which was world"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3098.58,"endTime":3102.27,"body":"famous, was Temple Street,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3102.27,"endTime":3106.86,"body":"literally Temple Street, in New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3102.27,"endTime":3106.86,"body":"Haven, which is the street that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3106.86,"endTime":3112.32,"body":"cuts right across the New Haven"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3106.86,"endTime":3112.32,"body":"Green. And it was lined with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3112.35,"endTime":3118.5,"body":"elms, very closely, too closely"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3112.35,"endTime":3118.5,"body":"it turns out, planted. And it"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3118.5,"endTime":3122.49,"body":"created this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3118.5,"endTime":3122.49,"body":"extraordinary...Dickens, when he"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3124.02,"endTime":3129.48,"body":"visited, I think in the 1840s,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3124.02,"endTime":3129.48,"body":"he made this very celebrated"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3129.48,"endTime":3133.89,"body":"trip to America and he writes"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3129.48,"endTime":3133.89,"body":"about it, right? He visits"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3133.92,"endTime":3137.58,"body":"Temple Street, it's on his list."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3133.92,"endTime":3137.58,"body":"It's on his bucket list, there"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3137.58,"endTime":3143.61,"body":"with Niagara Falls and New York"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3137.58,"endTime":3143.61,"body":"City, to see this remarkable"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3143.79,"endTime":3146.55,"body":"example of American space."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3147.06,"endTime":3150.63,"body":"I think one thing"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3147.06,"endTime":3150.63,"body":"that drew me to this story in"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3150.63,"endTime":3155.16,"body":"1856, of this tree coming down,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3150.63,"endTime":3155.16,"body":"is that, you know, we do this"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3155.16,"endTime":3161.37,"body":"now. We venerate old trees and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3155.16,"endTime":3161.37,"body":"love them and recognize them."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3161.52,"endTime":3167.88,"body":"But here was Thoreau doing the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3161.52,"endTime":3167.88,"body":"same thing, in a way, 150-160"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3167.91,"endTime":3171.9,"body":"years ago. And we seem to do"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3167.91,"endTime":3171.9,"body":"this almost in every era, like"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3171.99,"endTime":3174.9,"body":"we're looking back to it another"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3171.99,"endTime":3174.9,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3174.96,"endTime":3178.86,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3174.96,"endTime":3178.86,"body":"But he I mean, he really is at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3178.86,"endTime":3182.55,"body":"the forefront of this because"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3178.86,"endTime":3182.55,"body":"he's coming out of an era when"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3182.55,"endTime":3188.76,"body":"we Americans did not really look"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3182.55,"endTime":3188.76,"body":"to the natural world through a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3188.76,"endTime":3191.88,"body":"lens like that. It was like I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3188.76,"endTime":3191.88,"body":"said earlier, it was much more"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3191.88,"endTime":3192.96,"body":"exploitative."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3193.02,"endTime":3196.56,"body":"Yeah, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3193.02,"endTime":3196.56,"body":"just a simple act of nostalgia"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3196.56,"endTime":3199.71,"body":"to write about this tree either."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3196.56,"endTime":3199.71,"body":"He's looking to the future. He's"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3199.71,"endTime":3204.03,"body":"looking at his current time"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3199.71,"endTime":3204.03,"body":"[Sure] and the future. So just"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3204.03,"endTime":3208.11,"body":"to wrap up, I have a question"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3204.03,"endTime":3208.11,"body":"for you. Before you studied"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3208.17,"endTime":3211.5,"body":"landscape architecture and urban"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3208.17,"endTime":3211.5,"body":"planning and became a professor,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3211.5,"endTime":3215.49,"body":"you studied forestry [Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3211.5,"endTime":3215.49,"body":"did, right] at ESF - that's the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3215.49,"endTime":3218.94,"body":"College of Environmental Science"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3215.49,"endTime":3218.94,"body":"and Forestry, in Syracuse."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3219.33,"endTime":3223.38,"body":"[Right] And so you've had a long"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3219.33,"endTime":3223.38,"body":"love of trees yourself and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3223.71,"endTime":3228.45,"body":"interest in their ecology. What"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3223.71,"endTime":3228.45,"body":"meaning does the Davis Elm as"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3228.45,"endTime":3232.11,"body":"some people call it, or the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3228.45,"endTime":3232.11,"body":"American element general, if you"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3232.11,"endTime":3233.49,"body":"prefer, have for you?"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3234.24,"endTime":3237.87,"body":"I can point"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3234.24,"endTime":3237.87,"body":"to the exact moment and place"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3237.87,"endTime":3241.65,"body":"where I fell in love with the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3237.87,"endTime":3241.65,"body":"American elm. I grew up in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3241.65,"endTime":3247.38,"body":"Brooklyn, and my mom used to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3241.65,"endTime":3247.38,"body":"bring us, my brother and I, to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3247.5,"endTime":3251.25,"body":"the American Museum of Natural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3247.5,"endTime":3251.25,"body":"History quite often. This was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3251.25,"endTime":3255.96,"body":"right on, you know, from our"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3251.25,"endTime":3255.96,"body":"part of Brooklyn, it was the I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3255.96,"endTime":3258.69,"body":"think it was back then it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3255.96,"endTime":3258.69,"body":"the D train now it's the B"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3258.69,"endTime":3261.78,"body":"train, but and it was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3258.69,"endTime":3261.78,"body":"there was a stop right there at"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3261.78,"endTime":3266.67,"body":"the museum. And we would go. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3261.78,"endTime":3266.67,"body":"in the Hall of North American"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3266.7,"endTime":3271.62,"body":"Forests, or Hall of North"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3266.7,"endTime":3271.62,"body":"American trees, there were two"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3271.62,"endTime":3278.22,"body":"exhibits that just moved me"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3271.62,"endTime":3278.22,"body":"enormously. One was an enormous"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3278.31,"endTime":3285.42,"body":"section of a redwood. It may"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3278.31,"endTime":3285.42,"body":"have been a Sequoia...it was a"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3285.42,"endTime":3289.47,"body":"California redwood. And it had"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3285.42,"endTime":3289.47,"body":"you know, the rings were very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3289.47,"endTime":3292.95,"body":"visible and it had little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3289.47,"endTime":3292.95,"body":"markers showing the fall of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3292.95,"endTime":3299.22,"body":"Roman Empire and the fact that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3292.95,"endTime":3299.22,"body":"this was a record of it,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3299.22,"endTime":3303.87,"body":"basically, this enormous passage"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3299.22,"endTime":3303.87,"body":"in human history that just..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3303.9,"endTime":3308.7,"body":"and when I finally went out west"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3303.9,"endTime":3308.7,"body":"myself, I worked for many"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3308.7,"endTime":3313.14,"body":"summers as a firefighter with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3308.7,"endTime":3313.14,"body":"the United States Forest"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3313.14,"endTime":3317.52,"body":"Service. I remember that was one"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3313.14,"endTime":3317.52,"body":"of the things I first went to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3317.52,"endTime":3322.26,"body":"see were the redwoods. But"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3317.52,"endTime":3322.26,"body":"across in this one exhibit hall"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3322.26,"endTime":3327.93,"body":"across from the redwoods section"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3322.26,"endTime":3327.93,"body":"was a very evocative, back lit"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3327.93,"endTime":3332.73,"body":"painting. And it was titled"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3327.93,"endTime":3332.73,"body":"simply The Elm in New England."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3332.79,"endTime":3338.37,"body":"And it was this very evocative"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3332.79,"endTime":3338.37,"body":"romantic scene of these arching"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3338.4,"endTime":3344.58,"body":"elm trees, looking down a road"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3338.4,"endTime":3344.58,"body":"into like this pastoral New"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3344.58,"endTime":3347.82,"body":"England landscape, but I think"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3344.58,"endTime":3347.82,"body":"there was a farmer, their little"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3347.82,"endTime":3351.33,"body":"farm settlement. And it just"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3347.82,"endTime":3351.33,"body":"there was something about that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3351.33,"endTime":3355.17,"body":"image that just so moved me. I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3351.33,"endTime":3355.17,"body":"also remember, this is the early"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3355.17,"endTime":3361.71,"body":"70s. And when we would go with"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3355.17,"endTime":3361.71,"body":"my family, when we would go up"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3361.83,"endTime":3366.0,"body":"to the Adirondacks for an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3361.83,"endTime":3366.0,"body":"extended weekend, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3366.03,"endTime":3371.19,"body":"the once a year family road"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3366.03,"endTime":3371.19,"body":"trip, my dad would point out the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3371.19,"endTime":3375.57,"body":"skeletal remains of these dead"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3371.19,"endTime":3375.57,"body":"elm trees, because this was the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3375.57,"endTime":3380.1,"body":"period when a lot of these great"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3375.57,"endTime":3380.1,"body":"elms were still present in the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3380.1,"endTime":3383.55,"body":"landscape. They were dead. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3380.1,"endTime":3383.55,"body":"there were actually a fair"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3383.55,"endTime":3386.22,"body":"number that you were still"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3383.55,"endTime":3386.22,"body":"living. I remember at the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3386.22,"endTime":3390.45,"body":"Saratoga Springs, at the actual"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3386.22,"endTime":3390.45,"body":"historic site, the springs,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3390.45,"endTime":3394.56,"body":"there were a couple of enormous"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3390.45,"endTime":3394.56,"body":"beautiful elms that you know"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3394.56,"endTime":3398.25,"body":"that I actually still have the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3394.56,"endTime":3398.25,"body":"photos, the slides. And so I was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3398.25,"endTime":3402.54,"body":"I was very moved from an early"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3398.25,"endTime":3402.54,"body":"age by this tree. And like you"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3402.54,"endTime":3408.06,"body":"said, I fell in love with trees,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3402.54,"endTime":3408.06,"body":"generally. I just I just really"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3408.06,"endTime":3416.58,"body":"loved trees. And partly it was"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3408.06,"endTime":3416.58,"body":"from summer camp and, and Bear"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3416.58,"endTime":3419.58,"body":"Mountain I remember, I used to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3416.58,"endTime":3419.58,"body":"identify all the trees on the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3419.58,"endTime":3424.17,"body":"trails around Hessian Lake. So I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3419.58,"endTime":3424.17,"body":"did, I studied forestry. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3424.17,"endTime":3429.9,"body":"then as I said, I worked summers"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3424.17,"endTime":3429.9,"body":"with the Forest Service. And, in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3429.9,"endTime":3433.59,"body":"the process of studying"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3429.9,"endTime":3433.59,"body":"forestry, I discovered landscape"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3433.59,"endTime":3437.22,"body":"architecture, which had that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3433.59,"endTime":3437.22,"body":"creative dimension to it that I"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3437.22,"endTime":3440.58,"body":"really found fascinating."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3440.79,"endTime":3444.3,"body":"Well, I've really"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3440.79,"endTime":3444.3,"body":"enjoyed our conversation today."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3444.36,"endTime":3448.32,"body":"You mentioned that - I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3444.36,"endTime":3448.32,"body":"work on a lot of things - but"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3448.32,"endTime":3452.04,"body":"you mentioned some work on trees"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3448.32,"endTime":3452.04,"body":"that you're doing now."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3452.1,"endTime":3455.73,"body":"Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3452.1,"endTime":3455.73,"body":"actually working on a book that"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3455.76,"endTime":3461.52,"body":"is really, you know, tracing the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3455.76,"endTime":3461.52,"body":"roots, quote, unquote, of three"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3462.51,"endTime":3465.57,"body":"New York trees, right? And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3462.51,"endTime":3465.57,"body":"they're not germane to"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3465.57,"endTime":3469.35,"body":"exclusively New York City, but"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3465.57,"endTime":3469.35,"body":"they're prominent entities in"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3469.38,"endTime":3474.09,"body":"New York's urban landscape. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3469.38,"endTime":3474.09,"body":"one is the American Elm. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3474.09,"endTime":3477.27,"body":"we've talked about two of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3474.09,"endTime":3477.27,"body":"three, the American Elm one is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3477.27,"endTime":3480.63,"body":"the Ailanthus, Tree of Heaven."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3477.27,"endTime":3480.63,"body":"And the third is the London"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3480.63,"endTime":3486.42,"body":"plane. The book is organized,"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3480.63,"endTime":3486.42,"body":"obviously, in three parts. It"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3486.42,"endTime":3490.68,"body":"begins with the element that's"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3486.42,"endTime":3490.68,"body":"called the Patrician. And then"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3490.68,"endTime":3495.06,"body":"there's the whole part of the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3490.68,"endTime":3495.06,"body":"book, the second part is about"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3495.06,"endTime":3499.98,"body":"the London plane, which is"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3495.06,"endTime":3499.98,"body":"called the Cosmopolitan. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3500.01,"endTime":3503.37,"body":"that's a reference to the London"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3500.01,"endTime":3503.37,"body":"plane, I'm sure you know, this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3503.37,"endTime":3507.51,"body":"is a hybrid. It was an"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3503.37,"endTime":3507.51,"body":"accidental hybrid between the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3507.51,"endTime":3515.91,"body":"American Sycamore and the Asian"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3507.51,"endTime":3515.91,"body":"or Oriental Sycamore. And this"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3515.91,"endTime":3519.39,"body":"combined to create really one of"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3515.91,"endTime":3519.39,"body":"the best street trees we've ever"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3519.39,"endTime":3524.01,"body":"had. It's not quite as"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3519.39,"endTime":3524.01,"body":"romantically beautiful as the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3524.01,"endTime":3527.52,"body":"American elm, but it's very"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3524.01,"endTime":3527.52,"body":"tenacious and fast growing. And"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3527.52,"endTime":3530.01,"body":"then the third part of the book"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3527.52,"endTime":3530.01,"body":"is about the Ailanthus, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3530.01,"endTime":3532.53,"body":"that's called the Immigrant. So"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3530.01,"endTime":3532.53,"body":"it's the Patrician, the"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3532.53,"endTime":3536.28,"body":"Cosmopolitan and the Immigrant."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3532.53,"endTime":3536.28,"body":"It's fun, I'm having a blast"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3536.28,"endTime":3539.31,"body":"with it, because I'm writing"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3536.28,"endTime":3539.31,"body":"about obviously, the cultural"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3539.31,"endTime":3543.72,"body":"histories of these trees, and"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3539.31,"endTime":3543.72,"body":"how they came to gain a presence"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3543.72,"endTime":3544.62,"body":"in our landscape."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3544.62,"endTime":3548.64,"body":"I can't wait for"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3544.62,"endTime":3548.64,"body":"that to come out and to read it."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3548.64,"endTime":3550.2,"body":"Maybe I'll have you back..."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3550.62,"endTime":3551.7,"body":"Yeah, that'd"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3550.62,"endTime":3551.7,"body":"be great."},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":3551.94,"endTime":3554.16,"body":"...when that"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":3551.94,"endTime":3554.16,"body":"happens, and thanks again,"},{"speaker":"Douglas Still","startTime":3554.19,"endTime":3555.69,"body":"really enjoyed our conversation."},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3556.38,"endTime":3558.81,"body":"I've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Thomas Campanella","startTime":3556.38,"endTime":3558.81,"body":"it, too. Take care."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3561.06,"endTime":3563.46,"body":"Well, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3561.06,"endTime":3563.46,"body":"end it there. Thank you tree"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3563.46,"endTime":3565.95,"body":"lovers, for joining us on this"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3563.46,"endTime":3565.95,"body":"journey through the early"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3565.95,"endTime":3569.13,"body":"history of the American elm. And"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3565.95,"endTime":3569.13,"body":"thanks very much to Thomas"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3569.13,"endTime":3572.58,"body":"Campanella for sharing his great"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3569.13,"endTime":3572.58,"body":"work. I've got links to more of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3572.58,"endTime":3576.03,"body":"his writing in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3572.58,"endTime":3576.03,"body":"Don't forget to subscribe if you"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3576.03,"endTime":3578.79,"body":"enjoyed the show, and you can"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3576.03,"endTime":3578.79,"body":"find photos of the trees"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3578.79,"endTime":3582.51,"body":"featured here and other updates"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3578.79,"endTime":3582.51,"body":"for This Old Tree on Facebook,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3582.54,"endTime":3585.66,"body":"Instagram and Twitter. We don't"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3582.54,"endTime":3585.66,"body":"have a Tree Story Short this"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3585.66,"endTime":3588.69,"body":"week, but definitely submit one"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3585.66,"endTime":3588.69,"body":"if you have a personal tree"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3588.69,"endTime":3592.86,"body":"story to tell. It can be one to"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3588.69,"endTime":3592.86,"body":"three minutes long. Just record"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3592.86,"endTime":3596.52,"body":"it using the Voice Memo app on"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3592.86,"endTime":3596.52,"body":"your phone and email it to me,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3596.76,"endTime":3600.6,"body":"instructions in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3596.76,"endTime":3600.6,"body":"Hopefully together, we can slow"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3600.6,"endTime":3604.17,"body":"the indiscriminate removal of"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3600.6,"endTime":3604.17,"body":"large healthy trees. But the"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3604.17,"endTime":3607.62,"body":"next time you see it happen,"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3604.17,"endTime":3607.62,"body":"speak up. Thoreau would have"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3607.62,"endTime":3611.13,"body":"your back. Here's arborist and"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3607.62,"endTime":3611.13,"body":"songwriter Dee Lee to take us"},{"speaker":"Doug Still","startTime":3611.13,"endTime":3611.34,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3611.37,"endTime":3616.5,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3611.37,"endTime":3616.5,"body":"old tree, standing here for more"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3616.5,"endTime":3622.68,"body":"than four centuries. I wonder"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3616.5,"endTime":3622.68,"body":"what you'd say if you could talk"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3622.68,"endTime":3631.92,"body":"to me about what it's like to"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3622.68,"endTime":3631.92,"body":"be, this old tree. Shadow and"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3631.92,"endTime":3640.32,"body":"shade, kids down the block are"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3631.92,"endTime":3640.32,"body":"selling lemonade. Send them down"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3640.32,"endTime":3648.84,"body":"to cool breezes sweet cascade,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3640.32,"endTime":3648.84,"body":"tailor made by this old tree. In"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3652.74,"endTime":3660.6,"body":"1600 you were just a seed,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3652.74,"endTime":3660.6,"body":"reaching bothers sky, high."},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3661.29,"endTime":3669.09,"body":"Waiting for a chance to take"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3661.29,"endTime":3669.09,"body":"your place in the warm sunshine."},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3672.45,"endTime":3681.24,"body":"Here I go, high above the place"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3672.45,"endTime":3681.24,"body":"where the people grow, leave my"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3681.24,"endTime":3686.82,"body":"troubles on the ground far"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3681.24,"endTime":3686.82,"body":"below, so I can get to know,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3687.27,"endTime":3705.57,"body":"this old tree. Summer sparke in"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3687.27,"endTime":3705.57,"body":"your leaves. Autumn winds will"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3705.57,"endTime":3724.17,"body":"bring relief. Winter calls for"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3705.57,"endTime":3724.17,"body":"you to sleep. Spring returns"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3724.17,"endTime":3735.63,"body":"again in green. But the town -"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3724.17,"endTime":3735.63,"body":"ships on the water side spy your"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3735.63,"endTime":3742.44,"body":"royal crown. Sentinal of green,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3735.63,"endTime":3742.44,"body":"two points off starboard bow,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3743.7,"endTime":3754.02,"body":"homeward bound to this old tree."},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3743.7,"endTime":3754.02,"body":"In 1800 you felt the thunder or"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3754.02,"endTime":3762.42,"body":"roll, lightning split the sky,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3754.02,"endTime":3762.42,"body":"high. Though the fire raged in"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3762.42,"endTime":3771.36,"body":"the little town below, you"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3762.42,"endTime":3771.36,"body":"managed to survive, this scar"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3771.36,"endTime":3781.5,"body":"upon your side. This old tree,"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3771.36,"endTime":3781.5,"body":"reach out and touch a living"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3781.5,"endTime":3790.41,"body":"history! Beneath my hands an"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3781.5,"endTime":3790.41,"body":"ancient mystery, how small I am"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3790.44,"endTime":3799.26,"body":"by this old tree. How small I am"},{"speaker":"This Old Tree song - Dee Lee","startTime":3790.44,"endTime":3799.26,"body":"by this old tree."}]}